Vishal Virani - Founder of Rocket.new | Why Vibe Solutioning Replaces Vibe Coding

In a world of AI, if you just go on a vacation for seven days, you felt like you are not working from last seven months. Most of people are using AI for the hobby and curiosity, but now world is moving from a demo to dollars. I can see a real impact on ground. He built the tools to help creators and founders build the future without writing a single line of code. Vishal Varani is a tech founder and innovator whose work has shaped the next generation of no code platforms. We look at all the platforms and the early days in the sales world, 80% of retention is not even a good retention. No, even like people are comfortable with 45% of retention. And that's where if you are not able to translate hope into trust, you will have a chance, a very big chance. AI will not replace. It will reform your job roles, the way you work, your workflows, patterns and everything. You need to understand where the human intelligence is going to be more critical thing. And do you have that intelligence or not? And if not, just try to adapt it. Now as the force behind rocket, he's making app creation more accessible, scalable and powerful for entrepreneurs of every background. From engineering expertise to product leadership to global impact, his journey shows what's possible when technology meets vision. Every day there is a new technology, every day there is a new update in the AI. If you jump here and there for everything, you will not able to achieve anything at all. Once you define the goal, you need to see like what skills you need to acquire. Put your 100% focus and then you need to say no to everything. Vishal, it's nice to sit down in real life. We did a podcast a couple of months ago, a few months ago. We're in New York now. It's freezing cold. That's why I'm sorry about that. Yeah, I can't control the weather. But I'm super excited to back in your podcast. Like last time I really enjoyed our conversation. And the warmness, warmth of that conversation is still there. So like, I can't just with this new. I'm glad that you'll leave. Leave me a review. But in all seriousness, I know how fast a rocket is growing, which is super impressive. And I think it speaks to how effective you are as an entrepreneur. We're going to talk about how it's growing, why it's growing. Because again, we're going to talk about AI. But in the world of AI, if people don't know what you're building, the learn. But there's so many different people building right now in the world of AI. So I think that one thing I'm very interested in is how you stand out and how you differentiate yourself. Because I'm sure there's some of your peers, many of your peers that are building probably similar or like solutions. And it's a race for sure. But tell me. So since we spoke last, what's changed in the world of AI? Because it's moving very quickly. So I always used to say this thing. In a world of AI, if you just go on a vacation for seven days, you felt like you were not working from last seven months. So, but if I want to highlight a couple of things, the first thing is now we spoke I think before three months. And I can clearly see world is moving from a demo to dollars. Now people are able to really make a money of whatever they are building. Another part is a new model is quite stable. Now it's hallucinating less in compared to like the previous avatar of it. So we see a lot of agentic system that that clothe and open and everyone launch. Particularly the clothe core work is like one of the greatest example like what AI can do. So like these are like couple of things that recently changed in the AI world. Like stability of models and the real use case like real business people start building using the AI before that I would say like most of people are using AI for the hobby and for the curiosity. But that's why I use the word like now world is moving from a demo to dollars. And I can see a real impact on ground. Yeah, it's interesting. Last time we spoke, I had a couple different stories about companies that had tried to use AI, especially when it was first very popular. And they would try and deploy it across business unit or a team and they'd say like hey, you know, or they would even probably not so smartly lay off people and then ask the people that were replacing them or filling the gaps like use AI to sort of compensate for the people they just laid off. And the issue was teams were less effective. And the AI that they were using when sort of chat GPT first hit like the headlines, they weren't completing the tasks as quickly as if they could just do it themselves. Right? So that turns people off from AI. And I want you to give a little bit of context about why that is. But one of the things that you said that really stuck with me that it was like a light bulb moment was how humans aren't trained to communicate with AI. We just assume that give AI to somebody they're going to be more effective. But talk to me about the issues that we had with AI over how many years has it been? It's only been like two, three years. Yes, yeah, not long. But talk to me about like the issues that were really plaguing AI when it sort of first hit new cycles, businesses tried to use it versus where we are now. So the first thing like unit to understand the workflow. So initially, like I want to give an analogy of like says, like in the says, like generally you are trying to figure out a tool which can sit in your workflows. Like, okay, you have a standard process like, okay, I do all the works in like step two, step three, step four. And I always try to figure out a tool or I will build my own. If I'm not able to do that, I am not able to follow the process with the platform. But in the AI, you are optimizing those workflows. So ultimately, there are now two kind of business. One is who are changing their flows based on the AI tools available and how they can use AI efficiently versus there are still a business who are trying to figure out like, okay, I will sit in their workflow and will do a magic. Ultimately, those are the people who are not able to realize the maximum value of AI. But who are adopting AI in the new form of an business, they are able to move very quickly and they are able to see a results on on ground. So let's consider like this, there were SDLC software development life cycle. And now there are SDI AI IDLC AI development life cycle. So you need to understand like all those roles are redefining. Initially, you had a product managers and then the designers and then the front end developers. Now that one guy, a product manager can do a product research, product management, designing and the development in a one go. So this is like a new change that people are now start adopting. And we are able to see a real impact on ground. And that's why I say like now we move from a demo to dollars, because people are able to understand this new workflows like how to use AI optimally. The second part is like initially like a lot many folks are having a problem with writing the prompts and all like people are generally throwing a random request on on chat GPT or any web coding platform. And the rocket we observe like, okay, I just want to build this. And they are not clear like what exactly they want to build. So understand like the fundamental way of using the AI is like, you have something back of your mind like, okay, I want a very beautiful website. But what is the definition of that beautiful? You have it in your mind like what do you call it? But AI does not know like, what is the beautiful for you? They have it has some different context of a beautiful website. So what started happening is like people are saying like, okay, AI is not giving me a right results. But now after three years, everyone started realizing, okay, if I'm saying beautiful, I will not get the exit result. But I need to mention everything like, okay, I need this kind of an animation. I need this kind of a phone style. I need this kind of a layout for my website. And now I started generating those kind of websites for them. And they are like realizing look at this. AI has a great power and it can add a lots of value in my business. So this like fundamental behavioral change which happened in the market. And that's why I like adoption of AI is like way better than like adoption of cloud. If I just put it in the horizon of like time perspective quickly. So the fundamental change in AI is actually a fundamental change in human behavior. Yes, even like the buying pattern. So like internally, internally I always used to say this like in the sales world, people were buying something after trusting the platform. Like, okay, I will I will try for a one month. Once I get the full trust, I will use it versus in the AI world, the buying pattern is because of an hope. I hope this tool will fix my this problem and I will throw the money. And that's why fundamentally we see like to achieve a hundred million dollars of AIR, people took up like one one year or a two, three years of time. Versus nowadays, the rest is like, okay, I achieved a hundred million dollars AIR in like eight months. Or I there was a company that just achieved two hundred million dollars of AIR in like just one and a half year or like less than that. So that is because of hope. Now the buying is happening because of an hope. The AI will solve my this problem. So let me pay and let me try. So that is like everything is changing fundamentally like from buying behavior to the way people are using the AI in the day to day life. And now the kind of an adjustment with the error rate as well. So initially, people were saying like, yeah, I cannot give AI is not giving me a hundred percent accuracy. But now people are settling with like, okay, even if I get a 60 to 70 percent accuracy or 80 percent, I'm good with that. I will do a rest of the modifications. So this is like a change has been changing last couple of months or I can say years. I'm curious. So because you mentioned you touched on something that's very interesting. I hope it's not usually a very good business strategy. It's it's not and and for somebody to throw money for collectively for businesses to throw money into AI and say, I hope it's going to fix my business, which is going to drive a two hundred million dollar AR and a year and a half. Do you think that do you think that some of these companies are sustainable? A very good point. So I always used to say in rocket like we have a fundamental philosophy of running the business like how we can build a sustainable business. The reason is if you if you look at all the platforms and in the early days in the SaaS world, 80 percent of retention is not even a good retention. Like, okay, when you're doing IPO, people were expecting more than 80 percent of retention and 110 percent of your NRR and everything. Now, even like people are comfortable with 45 percent of retention and that's where if you are not able to translate hope into trust, you you you can say like you will have a churn, a very big churn. Even the best of the best vibe coding platform is having more than a 50 percent of churn. Huge. Which is huge. And right now recently I come across couple of like data points where monthly retention is like 28 percent, 30 percent and still people are able to raise a very huge round in the AI space. But that's a signal above all. So that's the signal about that sustainability of business and now understand like world is moving so fast and all the parameter has been changed. So initially again, I will take the analogy of SaaS a lot because that's that's how I can I can tell you like how business has been changed from like before three years and now initially like a gross margin needs to be like 80 percent or at minimum 75 percent less than a 75 percent of gross margin business is a very bad business and retention at least needs to be like 85 90 percent. Now it is everyone is operating at a single digit or like around 20 percent of in gross margin business in the AI because everyone is just throwing a money on like frontier models and with like 28 to 30 percent of like retention, I call it a ventilator startup. Definitely you're growing at like 50 million hundred million dollars of error. But it's on life support. Yeah, it's like that every time you need to be in a hope, tomorrow my retention will fix, tomorrow my gross margin will be fixed or I will raise the next town. If you are not able to raise the next town and if you are running out of money because your business is on on a ventilator like that kind of a dynamics, you will not able to survive or right now. You realize that even some of the biggest names that people know. Yep. Have these kinds of turn rates. Yes. So the thing is like okay, right now we haven't seen any kind of a study, a case study of taking a startup to IPO. So like cursor is very, very good startup, open air is very good, everyone is building a very aggressive business. But yet a native AI company, we are waiting for a one really good company who can who is in the prosium market and going IPO. So once we got to know about the data when they do a filing and all, we will realize like okay, what are the new dynamics of the world versus they are there are business like in Harvey who is like focusing on like legal, very, very stable business, not a very prosium is company, but unique economics are very strong. So like if you are planning to do a AI business, you need to be very sure like okay, in which market you are coming. It's going to be vertical or it's going to be horizontal, a prosium market and then at what rates you are going to operate, what will be your standard economics and what will be your philosophy. Because now it is like you need to focus on your signals, your strength because like okay, market is like so distracting, you will also feel like okay, I want to jump into this market and I want to build a great business, I want to build a hundred million dollar business overnight, but that's how things will not work, you need to so fundamentally we don't think like okay, we want to grow it to 200 million dollars of ARR in like eight months with this kind of economics, like we our gross margins are really good like we are operating at 50 to 60 percent of gross margin. This is where you're at right now. Yeah right now. So sometimes like we we got the feedback like okay, you are not doing enough in your space, the way either are growing, you should do something crazy, I said like I will do a crazy stuff, but on the product side, it's not like the don't like blood scale. So it's like even it's a blitz scale, I'm open to do that blitz scaling, but with my unit economics and control, I want to build a sustainable business like we see a crypto business like okay, at one point of time it wasn't like everyone wants to build a crypto business, everyone is like building a unique on business. Now how many startups you are aware which were unique on and like before three or four years and now you are even even their existing market. I am to be honest like that's not my fundamental of running business. I'm a very different kind of founder, I always believe in sustainability. I need to provide ROI to my users when they are using a product. So we are always getting to death a product and that's where I say like we don't want to get into vibe coding platform, we truly want to build a vibe soliciting platform which can deliver the right result store audience and they should build a revenue when they are using a product. If they are paying a $50 to me, they should get a $500 of like benefit. That's like always whenever we are deciding about any feature, we think about this like okay, how can we truly solve the problem for our user instead of like just generating the random results for them. So like this is like couple of fundamental operating so we call it like operating system of rocket and which is like where we have like fundamentals. So whenever we are making any decisions, we always look at that like okay, what are our fundamentals? What is our operating system of working and based on that we are making decisions like what is there for our users? What is there for our investors? What is there for our sustainability? Because like I am unstable to my people who are working with me to my investor and to my users. So right now like we are having more than a million users and if tomorrow I say like okay, we are winding up our startup, what will be the impact on them? Because they trust me, they put the money, they pay to me to use a product and tomorrow I'm saying like okay, we are running out of money and we are studying it down. It's not the way we operate. Where did your business philosophy come from? Well first of all what is your sort of founder business philosophy and where did that come from? So very hard question where it is where it's come from because it's naturally like right after the college I started my first venture and this is like my third one and like it come naturally like when you interview with folks so I started with a service and consulting business where you interact with your client on a daily basis and you got to know like how you how you are able to deliver daroi to them. Is there any impact of like your work in their life? So it's like it comes naturally but ultimately whenever I look at the business I always say like okay why Google become Google or like Apple become Apple because they have a long division they don't build on like short outcomes like okay I want to go like this and I want to build a very quick revenue and doesn't matter like tomorrow I will die. So like how you can build a long lasting business and the kind of an upbringing that I'm having where we where we take the risk but always we think about like the person who is going to consume over results and all. So it's a very natural philosophy that I build at my own and that's like my personal belief to be honest and if I answer your second question like okay what are our fundamentals of like operating the business what is the fundamental philosophy of rocket is as I said you want to build the right product where people cannot get the fancy demo they get the solution and that's why I multiple time I repeat this like we are building a true web solitioning platform and that solution is like how we can help them to improve their business. So I will give one example and then I will move to the another point like what's to build how to build an application become a commodity. Everyone knows like I can put the prompt and I can get the code using the cloud core or loveable or replicate or any web coding platform even the cursor but what's to build is still a very big problem. So again we'll take an analogy of your podcast like okay anyone can start the podcast anyone can interview any person but on what topic for whom and who will you invite in your podcast that is making a biggest difference otherwise like running starting a podcast is not the big thing but on what ground you will start in which area you will start is the big thing to decide and that's where you make a lot of statistical call and that's that's how I said what's to build is the biggest problem how to build is not the problem nowadays. So we are solving on what's to build part not just in how to build. So that is the first thing like what is what how we can improve our users life and that is the first of a philosophy that we always follow in and rocket while we are deciding any feature the second is like sustainability of business like does our unique economics and control or not then am I doing any wrong things to build my business am I create a negative impact on anyone on my investor or on economy or in anything so ultimately we need to be respectful for all the resources that we get in our life and we need to think deeply while we are deciding those things so like these are like couple of things that we always follow while we are making decisions. So then if you if you look out five years how your building rocket is fundamentally how you believe businesses will need to interact with AI. So right now it's giving answers but it's not giving answers with context it's just giving like direct response to what the user inputs. So the future of AI speak about that the future of AI in business how does AI actually work with business in three four five years from now maybe even sooner. So the highest like right now everyone is talking about the context graph where your answer will be very contextual but even explain that goal a little bit deeper because not everybody understands what that means. So before that like let me let me explain as a in rocket like what we are building is a vibe solution platform. So that's how then I can connect like couple of technical things very easily. So while we are building a vibe solutioning on three fundamentals the one is a contextual memory the second is autonomous behavior of an agent's and third one is a deep workflows. So let me start with the last point first deep workflow is what let's take an example of an brand website building you you may have your website like millions of websites is available in market but when you go to a user who is running a website with like hundred pages okay are you using any vibe code in platform to maintain your not not not not the reason is a fundamental missing workflow. So when are you building a new page on your ongoing business it's not just about generating a code it's about re reusing your all the components of your existing website your brand tone your brand guidelines your digital assets and everything and then a generation of code in an optimal way and that's not done then after like you need to optimize it for all your SEO the technical SEO and now the geo and everything you need to install all the tracking codes then you need to also test like okay like am I install all the tracking codes properly or not so you need to release on your queue environment or a staging environment and then you will optimize the performance and then you will release in the production now understand like a building a landing page is a very very simple use case of and vibe coding platform but everyone is fundamental missing this workflow so still today like none of the vibe coding platform is able to solve the problem of an existing business where they're having a very good website and there is millions of website available and still they're struggling to use a vibe coding platform without any technical help why are they struggling still it is it because like a highlight is it because they pushed the product market too quickly it's still kind of like in demo mode because they wanted the capture mind share and market share yeah so ultimately like when are you building in a horizontal space it's it's very hard to focus on one use guess and get into depth of that so that's where you you miss the workflow you because you are moving so fast every every hobbyist wants to build the application so ultimately you need to make those strategic decisions like okay in which direction you want to move like okay you want to make billions of non coders do you want to move all the billions of non coders to a quarter or do you want to solve for one particular use case which is in depth which they prefer the first flow so ultimately that's as I said like in the vibe solutioning platform we are fundamentally solved for the workflows and we are getting into depth of everything so that's our one of the biggest release which we did in like last week and it's like now it's solving entire end-to-end things so you just need to put the URL of your website we'll get into depth of everything and then if you want to generate a new page or if you want to let's say redesign your entire website but you you want to keep your entire SEO and the content as it is you just need to give that input and we'll do the rest of the job then we connect the slack and your WhatsApp and everything so even you know need to sit on on a platform we bring the entire rocket platform in your WhatsApp so you can simply say like okay we will send you the URL once we build you just need to see you just need to approve and we'll make it live so it's like we are blending all the behavior of like user and the workflows into system in a way where we can create the impact and that is the first pillar of our vibe solutioning now if I talk about the second pillar which is like an autonomous update so autonomous update is what as a vibe solutioning platform sorry so before even going to that second pillar let me talk about the solutioning part as I said like everyone know how to build how to build but no one knows like what's to build and it's a very hard problem like even people know what's to build it's it's very hard problem to get into detail so what we did is like we build the entire contextual memory layer with our solutioning capability so now let's consider you are a CXO or you are a CEO but you don't have a big team now if you want to get into detail of your competitive research like let's say you are building a AI product in in a in a video creation space now how much time you will invest in in doing your competitive research this is a one-time job then how much time you will daily or weekly spend on your competitive research and all because you don't have a chief of staff and all because you are a very early say startup even if you have a chief of staff like okay you need to prioritize all your tasks I'm just talking about the one particular task so what we saw a rocket like okay if you even before building if you say like okay I want to build my startup in a video creation space in the AI using the generative AI can you do a 360 degree competitive research for me and in 30 to 50 second 50 minutes will give you a mechanism style a very detailed a competitive research where we'll touch upon all the data points we are monitoring like thousands of data point in the background and that research is like that in depth like in our recent beta rollout like we observe everyone said like okay now I have mechanisms in my pocket it's like that kind of in detail research that we are providing to the user and now as I said like in my three fundamental pillars contextual memory layer autonomous update and the workflow I talk about the workflow and I'm talking about the contextual memory layer so what we are doing now like you have a small team as a CEO you build your competitive research and you liked it like okay this is like to the point now you can ask your team you can simply create one more task for your team like okay build a prototype where we can or you can just assign a task to your product manager can you build a PR this where we can utilize all the negative points this all the existing startup is having and tell me like what we get what we can build here so now your fund a product manager guy just need to put like two three lines two three two three liners of prompt like okay this is like my philosophy like analyze all the negative points that we get from the competitive research and build me the PRDs now because of a system is already having a 70-page or competitive research that you build as a CEO now consider I am a PM of your company I don't need to explain everything because we have contextual memory layer which works across the organization so if you are bad at prompting this is where would actually support you even you don't need to do that prompting and all that that is that is the importance of the context and here I'm talking about the one data point but when we talk about the context graph it is like way beyond that like okay you have the existing system you have all the rational behind making the decisions and all we can contextualize everything to generate the answer so context graph is like the new things and after one year in all the startup you will you will start listening this word like okay we have a support of your context graph and everything so that's how we are contextualizing the entire memory layer where a people can run the organizations it's not just about building the product and then if you are prototyping guy or a front-end developer came and said like okay just take the PRD which my product managers manager generated build me the prototype so now you don't need to explain what you want to build in like thousands of lines because we have everything you just need to tell us like okay what is your design philosophy like okay I like a glass morphism kind of in you are and blah blah blah take this five PRDs and build me the end to and prototyping so that's how we are getting into workflows and the contextual memory layer and the last part is the autonomous update and which is like one of the most a favorite part of my product and and and because like I'm using it personally like I'm using rocket for my daily use case where what is doing is like okay build the competitive research and then I simply put a prompt like okay can you give me a daily digest weekly digest and the monthly digest based on like critical data pointers in my email or over my WhatsApp and what our system is doing like okay you have a competitor XYZ so for an example right now I'm just hypothetically I'm I'm putting like cursor as my one of competitor so our system will go to cursor's homepage okay what is the change in the headline or positioning what are the changes in the technical documentation what are the changes in there like whom they hire on LinkedIn so ultimately we will what are the narratives of like CEO's talk we will we will like analyze all the data points and our system will serve you the wisdom like okay recently cursor hire these two key profiles there is a change in the CEO's narrative there is change in narrative of like company handle on the X there is a change in technical documentation so these are my three observations they are going to start the new motion in non-developer space these are like two other things and you are very weak or you don't have anything at all in this particular space and that can be a negative a pointer for you going to wear it now yeah so it's like on on daily monthly and and weekly frequency we are going to solve this wisdom to our users so when I say a vibe solution we are solving your problem we are solving your problem of like a competitive research not by just throwing the data to you but like what is the meaning of that data what is the a pattern that is there and that's where you need to hire a very good agency either the like Mackenzie Della kind of as you describe this it sounds like this is going to replace any of the top four accounting like like big four firms because it well I mean okay this is not this is not there's not business advice but it does sound like you could at least try this as opposed to spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for yes so we are not here we have a very simple thing like we we are not here to replace anyone we are here to reform the rules but you are disrupting yeah disrupting is now so the printer can have the same level of competitive due diligence absolutely as somebody who can pay $200,000 a month I can afford a million dollars of Mackenzie Bill now at this moment but I can have rocket to help me with that I cannot have army of like a chief of staff and and the advisors to advise me on all the pointers here my tool will do that things for you so that's how we are going to disrupt the way people are making a decisions and and how how we can help them to solve that problem so now your original question like okay how AI is going to transform everything from now onwards like in the in the five hours of horizon I'm talking about all these points which we already release it in live so this is just in beginning where we are contextualizing your entire context we are giving your autonomous update and we are generating everything in your entire workflow now just imagine after five years how powerful it is going to be well this is so for context this is like one particular use case one particular solution yes there's a million different things yeah so like your CRO can use the platform your CMO can use the platform so now let's say you have a CMO or if you don't have a CMO at all as a CEO you are doing all the marketing strategies because now we have the context of your product PRD's competitive research and the prototypes that you build now you just need to say like okay if I want to go from zero to one million dollar and I don't want to spend more than like a 200 300k dollars on my marketing budget can you build me the strategy and it will suggest like this should be your influence on marketing strategy or this is your SEO strategy now if you are saying like okay can you build me a strategy of my long-tail keywords for the SEO or a geo it will suggest like okay these are the effects that you can cover these are the long-tail keywords on which you can build a pages and this can be a content of your pages so from building your growth strategy to marketing strategy everywhere our web solution platform can help you and going forward it can be for legal team as well like okay someone like send you notice about your copyright of your trademarks like okay I run a company name rocket and you you are another rocket so like okay I you you you break like my entire trademarks rules and all and okay you just need to put a prompt I receive this notice can you help me with like reply and it will give you a reply now the interesting point is like after five years have I'm looking at this entire system it can analyze your calendar it can tell you like okay tomorrow you have a podcast with Vishal these are the five points that you can ask because this is like a market data that I'm having available even you know need to go in a system and and put the prompt it can analyze your calendar it can answer all the things if you receive a email from your board or from someone you can just forward that email to our system and in in return after one hour it will give you answer like okay these are the things that you can reply or that that you can look at it so understand like the way of operating is going to be so easy like nowadays maybe you and me receive a tweet so like my co-founder our user forward is like okay do you know about this new tool which is coming in market and you don't need to look at it you don't need to vest your one hour of time just forward that message to a rocket rocket will do a deep analysis and it will send you the report okay ignore it's it's not for you because you're way ahead than them but this is like one or two good user sentiments that user is talking about on the social media and all the review platform just consider this for you quick question what's your go to when you got 10 minutes before a meeting or a workout for me it just used to be whatever I could grab which usually meant skipping meals entirely or just grabbing something that left me crashing an hour later because it was just full of garbage that's why I'm partnering with Hule this black edition ready to drink is a complete meal so it has 35 grams of protein six grams of fiber 35 essential vitamins and minerals it is no sugar added gluten free under five bucks I always keep a few of these in my fridge and honestly it's solved the whole back-to-back meetings go go go non-stop no time to eat problem super well and this one's new for me it's Hule's daily greens I had the blueberry this morning honestly first impression it was way better than I expected it's developed by registered nutritionists and dieticians there are 42 vitamins minerals and superfoods only 25 calories four grams of fiber and just one gram of sugar I throw one back first thing before my morning calls every single morning look if you're running a business time is the most valuable asset she'll make healthy eating simple and they also just launch into target source nationwide you can get it everywhere try both products today with 15% off your purchase for new customers with my exclusive code Scott at Hule.com slash Scott tried both products today with 15% off your purchase for new customers with my exclusive code Scott SEO TT at Hule.com slash Scott use my code fill out the post checkout survey to help support the show that is Hule.com slash Scott they really make healthy living case amazing even if you're on the go healthy eating healthy lifestyle doesn't have to taste bad it doesn't have to suck net suite is the number one AI cloud ERP it's trusted by over 43,000 businesses it's a unified suite that pulls your financials inventory commerce HR and CRM into a single source of truth that connected data is what makes the AI smarter it doesn't just guess it knows it can automate routine tasks it can deliver actionable insights and it can help you cut costs and make fast decisions with confidence and now with the net suite AI connector you can use the AI of your choice to connect to your actual business data and ask every question you've ever had this isn't just another bolted on tool it's AI built into the system that actually runs your business so whether your company earns millions or hundreds of millions net suite helps you stay ahead if I needed something like this for my business I'd use net suite when you should so if your revenues are at least in the seven figures get our free business guide demystifying AI at net suite dot com slash Scott clary the guide is free to you at net suite dot com slash Scott clary net suite dot com slash Scott clary so it also allows you to not I mean as humans context switching is not good and and through a day as a founder unfortunately we as much as we try not to we switch between different contexts and different ideas pop up and we get distracted by things and we get worried about things and and it's just human nature so this acts as the best way I can describe it like the future of AI what rocket is solving for right now is really just like it's like a second brain that removes logic that removes emotion from decisions it it helps you focus it helps you do all the things that AI should help you do yeah and at the end the impact of this entire system is going to be the quality of life like recently I read lots of 2026 train and the train what happened in 2025 even in the valley most of the founders are in pressure like not having a quality life because they need to spend 15 16 hours of their day to do the work to monitor everything and as a beginning I said if even I took us seven days of vacation I felt like I am out of business from last seven months because the information flow is is like that high like no one is able to digest it no one is able to consume it and it's going to increase every day because like world is changing so fast now you don't need to get into pressure of everything just forward that entire pressure to rocket it will monitor it will make decisions you just need to give a resonance of like your mental models and the framework the the way you are making decisions rocket can adapt it and it will tell you like okay this is good for you this is bad for you even if you are on vacation for 15 days with your family no is after 15 days will tell you like okay you should look at these three things otherwise everything is noise in the market you can ignore it or you can deprioritize it so we'll help you what to prioritize what's to deprioritize and everything so that's how the if if everything goes well with the rocket like the way we are planning and if you are able to build the right accuracy like next couple of months I will be happy if I able to improve the life of a human being of making but I would say that AI is actually had the opposite effect on most people because I know yes it can 10x your output but it also you know 100x is the amount of information you have access to which then increases your anxiety like as a founder this podcast is you know my little company so now I have way more information to digest I have way more even when I'm preparing for a podcast now I can now I can listen aka transcribe and I can put 10 to 15 different podcasts or books that that guest has created and now and now I have to figure which topics I want to talk about so now there's more things to figure out not less I can do more but my life is not slower or quieter or it in fact it's probably a little bit probably a little bit more stressful try to draw a a Claude co-work yet am I missing anything so or let me okay so let me prefer this and I want to I want to prep it in Gemini and I want to prep it in Prophexie I want to prep it in chat GPT I want to prep it in Claude or I'm going to try Grok too and see which one gives the best output and now you're you're not more efficient at all and see like how dynamic world we are living in like at one day everyone is saying now open your launch GPT-5 and the web search and google topics are dropping and google is going to die and chat everyone is going to use the chat GPT for everything and then they launch the atlas and everyone saying now chrome will die and on the another day there is a GPT-3 and a open air traffic drop by 26% no one is using atlas because chrome is now powerful now Claude is launching something else so every day there is something who someone who is going to die on the other day they are going like 5x so it's like and and that is because of that formal I'm missing something so everyone all of sudden when when there is announcement every everyone jump on one thing and tomorrow they are again going back and when you go on a ground you will see like people are still using the chrome and safari and there is no change we are saying like okay all job is going to be replaced but when we go on the ground and still if you want to hire a good growth manager it's very hard to get a good growth manager and it's very hard to find a good resources when we comes to hiring part so hiring is not going anywhere still there are hiring agency agencies who are helping everyone to hire if there is a so powerful AI and agentic flows then why people are still having this and that's why I'm saying we are not here to replace anyone we are here to empower and AI is not understand you need to you need to keep this thing in mind I will not replace that it will reform your job roles the way you work your workflows patterns and everything but if you think like okay it will come and in overnight it will replace everything it's not it's not going to happen you know it's funny when people are worried about AI replacing everything because the way that I think about it is open AI has raised more money quicker at a higher valuation than almost any company in history and I still can't take a line of copy from open AI and post it anywhere and not and somebody not say Scott stop writing with AI so if the the highest valuation company with the most money raised in the shortest period of time still can't write copy as well as me or a semi-decent copywriter and that's not even my job it's not replacing anybody in the short term so it is helping you in in optimization your optimization of your post grammar fix some of your articulations and all but when you but the M dashes and the emojis like yeah so so that's the issue so we need to understand it is definitely going to replace all the mediocre and the clerical work but not the actual work so as a human being you we all need to focus on that intellectualness of that kind of and like okay how we can add value and quality without wasting more time using the AI that's that's what going to happen in like next five years and we strongly see this kind of entrance where people are adopting more and more AI to bring the quality in the shorter time so maybe for an example in the video editing space let's say I'm taking hypothetically you were spending like one month of time for an example editing all the small things and all now with the AI it can done with the same quality in like five days but still you need that human being who's doing that editing job anybody who's in like the top of their field will always have work it is but this is the same thing for any technological sort of revolution like it always sort of replaces mediocre work and administrative work and clerical work and and assembly line work but that's not where that's not as an individual if you are in these roles I mean to future proof yourself you have to be learning new skills and to be advancing yourself because it wouldn't just be AI they would replace you at some point okay so I want to read a story that's one of my favorite stories but I think it actually speaks to how you operate as a founder so I'll read a story and then you'll understand where I'm going with this but this is this is a story about iPhone and Steve Jobs so when the iPhone was being developed they had a demo ready for Steve Jobs keynote and it looked perfect in rehearsals but the engineers knew that if Jobs did things in the wrong order on stage it would crash and they literally taped the sequence of things that he had to do on the podium and it was basically just theater it wasn't like a finished product yet but Jobs really pushed let me say make it actually work and they made it actually work for this particular keynote I don't know what year this was but that's when it became the iPhone so talk to me about and when I read that story the reason I read that story is because I find you spoke a lot about going from demo to dollars I find that a lot of people in the AI space shipped before it was truly ready I true because if we just look at the output of some of the earlier models it is less than perfect so talk to me about your decision is going back sort of like your your founder principles and then how you think through why did you choose to delay until something was like truly ready versus shipping an MVP really because MVP is a popular idea you ship and especially in a market like AI you could have gotten traction much earlier on so see both the decisions are right in this world like you can go very quickly built in public is the new concept nowadays and to be honest I really love that concept when it comes to built in public because you can get a very quick feedback and in the early days of says like people were expecting 100% accurate results and all now with the AI you know because there is a hallucination and now people product product as in the entire hallucination okay I'm going to make mistake it's okay but still you can try for us the decision was like okay we were not the first mover so you always need to see what are your strengths and where are you so let's say when lovable launch or when bold launch the vibe coding platform they were very early in the market so they need to test their entire product they need to build in public and and they were they I always as I said like in in last broadcast also I mean I'm grateful because they launch and they created this entire space for everyone so they can do that but for us because like we are like third or fourth one or maybe sixth one in the market will launch in this particular space so we need to see like there will be AI fatigue so like okay I tried lovable I tried replete and all none of them work for me so now will they give a try to rocket if I do the same thing if I launch my at my MVP station if I try to build in public now they were you lose that's going to be I fatigue for them so we decided like okay we'll launch something very quickly but then after we'll focus on stabilizing the product we'll focus on like building the right features we'll try to get into depth of like workflows and all and then we'll scale so now we are ready with that kind of a product and now I call it like okay before six months when we launch it in June it was like a version 0.0 for me now probably this is like next one month I'm going to say like okay now we are moving out of beta and we are having a real product for everyone of you so that's how we we make a very different decision and and nothing is wrong and right in this world building public works really well so like people jump onto that that train for us like we don't want to get into that AI fatigue decisions for all users so we decided like okay build a at least a basic product right and then go in the market and when you talk to because now you're talking go a whole bunch of enterprise customers what are they worried about with AI like what are their concerns because I think that those are the people that have the most resources those are the people that are going to use it to generate true revenue I mean you probably touch on them a little bit but like what are they thinking about the biggest companies in the world see I would not say like they're worried about something they are like quite mindful about like adopting the AI so the cautious is that you mean cautious when you say mindful yeah so ultimately let's say yesterday I was talking to someone who who is a developer in in an unfortunate company in a in a fintech space and they are into like investments so ultimately they do a lot of high-value trades in NASDAQ and all it's it's very very a sensitive space to be in and I said like okay are you guys using any code generation tool in your in your day-to-day life back of mine I was expecting no because like it's super sensitive regulated too regulated and if you make any mistake it can it can go very negative in the public market and and and that guy said yes we are using it on day-to-day basis and like from the beginning we are using GitHub Copilot and all definitely we are not giving a try to all the new platform but we are using GitHub Copilot on the regular basis and and that's why I said they are not worried about something but they are mindful when they are making decisions of using AI any AI platform in the enterprise so I see a new trend and here I will divide the entire world into three part US is always very very good when it comes to adoption of new trends and then there's a Europe who is highly regulated and lots of rules and regulations so even if they want to add up they they move a little slow particularly in terms of an air enterprises and not the startups are good but when it comes to enterprise adoption their their belief is very different versus if I if I talk about the rest of the world they follow the trends which you created in the US but all always like six to eight month in-game so what US is adopting today maybe they are adapting after six eight months they see like okay because of this thing now the US enterprise are moving very fast so we also need to adopt this so this is like typical trend that I observe so when it comes to enterprise what they want to make sure like okay is it regulated like okay these results are good enough or not will I get into any trouble on the legal side if I use your product your copyrights and everything then what is my security if I'm using your product what is the security of your startup like okay will you be there tomorrow or not ultimately so there are like couple of things but otherwise like enterprise are like very very aggressive in terms of an air adoption I never seen it in the in the cloud days and all but nowadays like it's very different and I don't think so they are worried about anything when it comes to an adoption and it's a good the the biggest companies in the world they're not concerned because how you work you need a lot of that company's information to be effective so there's no concern about security and so yeah so that's that's why I use the word mindful like okay they will ask you the question where are you going to store my data will you deploy offline or are you going to put it on your cloud what will the data localization I want everything on my instance of let's AWS or Azure or whatever they are using so that's how they will ask you like hundreds of questions if you are using your product it's not going to be the easy way like okay just go and do a sign up and use my product so they are in the adoption mode but very few companies are able to solve it to the enterprises the reason is like you need to be compliant you need to be soft to GDP are compliant and everything then your entire infrastructure the architecture of product needs to be like that which can support the enterprises that data localization and all so let's say in India we are working with one of the biggest FinTech company and and they're like the largest in India and like even very big customer of like very good SaaS products so when we talk to them like the first question because like according to Indian rule and regulations you need to have a data localization you cannot put a finance data outside of any Indian server like will you provide that and our answer was yes we have that capabilities on the architecture side and we said like okay in two days we can configure this and and that's how they say yes to us so so your your product needs to be ready for the enterprise it's not like okay enterprise are adopting AI or not yes enterprise are adopting AI heavily but does your product ready for the enterprise or not there's the biggest question that you will see and then for the the employee the person who's using it what do you see these companies doing for them are they training them a certain way are they are they are they keeping all of their employees are they doing layoffs are they only hiring if you have experience using AI like what are the trends that you start to see with people's jobs see I have a market data available with me so I will let's say like okay they are hiring or they're what they're doing but I can answer like to a very critical point here like okay what they're doing right now and I see a one common pattern even in the US India market and everyone started the like in fact they headed earlier but now that innovation center is like come into picture and now their roles and responsibilities like is like far better than like what they had earlier so this innovation innovation center in all the enterprises is the one who decide like okay which tool is right for them and then they do all the negotiations and everything and then they create a kind of an education plan for that entire organization all the employees of the organization so right now in in in most of our enterprise adoption we see a one a clear playbook where the innovation center will come into picture and they will make sure like okay they are adopting the right platform they will run the POC and all and when you are ready they will roll it out to the entire organization or the respective department this is one way another way where enterprise are adopting AI very heavily is like how they can create a very high benefit for their customers so that's where like okay you have millions of user and and now I want to build something where my user can add up our features or use our service in a in a really good way so let's say a customer support department of all the big organizations are now AI powered so ultimately that's where they are thinking about a big impact on their customers and that's where their employee is not going to be affected it's like okay how they can add more and more value in the customer life the employee better is the general way they're looking at this so ultimately like as I said how they can bring the quality in their life yeah in their work very quickly is the what enterprise is focusing on and definitely if someone is not fit into their workflows and all maybe because of an AI we see like lots of layer of recently and we also heard the story of like their hiring back they fired someone because of an AI now they're hiring back those folks and all so like there are like multiple things going on in the market and it's very early to comment but right now we see a two things one is all the enterprises are like adopting AI very quickly and for the customer and for the internal use cases and they are getting benefit out of it and everything of this is driven by did you know listen send it it's interesting I think that when enterprise adopts they have to make sure that the AI actually benefits the customer and listen I don't know every single use case but I do know that just interacting with businesses I've been on the super frustrating receiving end of like you know communicating with AI chat bots as opposed like a human that has no idea how to solve a problem which just seems like they just roll something out way too quickly and then I'm like I wish I had a human that I could talk to that had maybe AI information that they had access to but as you as you use it you start to realize like if you if you roll it out without humans it is actually a relatively poor experience in some cases for the see here like two or three things as I talk about the context did off with the improvement in all the models this experience is like a drastically changing so maybe in the early days before LLM still like many people deploy the bots where you need to answer one or two and then they will connect you with the human being and all and that was like very very frustrating experience then after a GPT-3 and and the new cloud models and now if I talk about like 2026 like because of a stability of models the now you see like the empathy of models the way it's donating the resources is way better than before two years so now even if you talk to a bot you will not feel like that and then with this context graph when there are all the rationales behind giving a support to the customer it's going to be even better so right now you may need a human being to put all that data to make sure like you are feeding the right context to the LLM to provide the right support to your audience that's a human being will come into picture and maybe AI will replace the job of like giving a straight answer like the random answers to the users and also that is the transformation which is happening now that still that customer success job is there but now they are not answering to the customer they are giving more and more context to the LLM so they can give answer at scale your customer not need to wait for 24 hours to get your basic answer so that that's how it's going to be transformed indeed is a success story partner after hiring indeed is all you need let me give you an example if i needed to hire a new editor for this show i'd go to indeed and be super specific not just can you edit audio i'd say i need someone who's edited a conversational podcast for at least three years gets our style and knows our software someone who's done this before and here's the thing with indeed sponsor jobs i'd get people who fit that description i'm not digging through resumes when people who've edited one youtube video i'm getting actual podcast editors who know what they're doing people who've worked on shows like ours and can prove it that's what makes a difference you get people who actually are what you're looking for according to indeed data sponsor jobs posted directly on indeed are 90% more likely to report a hire than non sponsored jobs and people are finding quality hires right now in the minute that i've been speaking to you companies like yours have made 27 hires on indeed according to indeed data worldwide spend more time interviewing candidates who check all the boxes less stress less time and more results now with indeed sponsor jobs and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit to help you get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed dot com slash clary just go to indeed dot com slash clary right now and support our show by saying you heard about indeed on this podcast indeed dot com slash clary terms and conditions apply hiring do it the right way with indeed hub spot is a success story partner now if you're looking for a new podcast one of my favorite shows right now is demand to code it if you're in the B2B marketing space you need to be listening to this it's hosted by the team at blend they are a demand gen agency they know what they're doing they're also part of the hub spot podcast network what i love about it is a skip all the theory and they just tell you what's actually working today so demand gen marketing content linked in at attribution they talk about real strategies that they are using they you can use today that are working so if you're an entrepreneur if you're building a business if you're really selling anything to anyone go search demand decoded wherever you get your podcast so for that for that employee that is tuned into this they're listening because they're stressed out about their job they have to do something they have to learn something they have to upskill they have to future prove themselves what is your recommended because and what i'm getting to after you talk to all these enterprises yeah you don't know what everybody's doing but you start to see how they treat AI and how they integrate it with their employees and just from like personal experience if you were going to talk to somebody who's stressed out about losing their job what advice would you give them like what the things should they learn what things should they research just so that they will have something in the next five or ten years because of like the kind of resources available on the internet you just need to have will and you don't need to be a fearful of losing your job what can simply do if i'm using any if i'm working in any customer success department you can simply search on internet or on youtube now what is the how i can use generative AI as a customer success guy or you can just do a basic chat with the a cloud or a chat deputy like okay can you tell me how i can improve my work using the generative AI then how you can how i can add value in my day to day work and you can just contextualize like okay i'm working in this organization my position is this we are we are using generative at this extent but what can be my next six month or nine month plan and what should i read can you do a deep web search for me and and suggest me the resources and ultimately you will found those resources and and that's why you use the word will there is enough material available in the internet for you online done it but it's like okay are you willing to change yourself or not so definitely after working as you you may need to invest your two to three hours of time in all learning all this thing and don't think like okay your organization will push you for this be ready for that so when your organization is adapting AI or if they are introducing any new things you are ready for that like okay i knew this thing and i want i will take a lead on that particular part that's how you can empower yourself you can be a future you can just make yourself future proof like okay whenever there is new things coming you are already aware about that you know the prompting part you know the contextual graph part you know everything which is required in your job when when it will be like generative AI plus human so ultimately you need to understand how where the human intelligence is going to be most critical thing and do you have that intelligence or not and if not just try to adapt it so understand there will in all the role there is a need of in human intelligence along with the generative AI so you need to be ready for that and that's how you can learn it so when i say it's a human intelligence what to put in the prompt is still a human intelligence what to serve in the context is still a human intelligence so there are like multiple expectations just build a will just put your context on on on internet like on chat deputy or on simple youtube explain your entire use case and try to figure out all the resources which can help you to get there and then just build a pattern like every day after my work i will spend one hour to us or maybe over a weekend Saturday i will like fully focus for eight hours to add up this and just make yourself future future proof not when your organization is pushing for for that particular part you can be ahead then your organization in terms of in knowledge listen i think that this is something that we're talking about this in the context of AI but this is just something that you'd have to do regardless i think that i can't remember we spoke with this the first time but i think a lot of people realized after covid that their jobs weren't as safe as they thought they were yeah too and it's it's a harsh reality but whether or not you know whether or not most people are not going to be in the same company for the next 30 years it's not most probably how most companies operate it's not how most people's career goes and given the fact that you're going to be doing multiple jobs over your career i think future proofing and upskilling is an incredibly important mental model to adopt see before before covid you can live in your comfort and you can have a very fixed goal like okay i want to live like like a very linear graph now it's not that time like okay you cannot be in your comfort zone because one day you have very good up then the down up and down and for that you need to make sure like okay you are a future proof if there is a downtime i can recover back and i can go to my uptime so now there is no linear graph of your career it's going to up and down and you you just need to be ready for that you touched on this at the beginning but i just wanted to go a little bit deeper about redefining roles through the lens of AI so explain to me what you see the future of a role being you're talking about AI enhancing but go a little bit deeper so for a project manager for somebody who's working in finance like how are roles redefined with AI so even like and earlier i talk about one example where you require like product manager then the front end developer then the designer and all all the folks in your team to just build a MVP now a product manager can do a competitive research can build a PRD can build a prototype and can build even the front end and the back end code as well so now that one product manager guy is a full-stack guy and now full-stack is not just an front end backend capabilities full-stack means a product management plus designing plus coding capabilities now that one role is enough to doing this entire stack so that's how the now i will not even call a product manager it's a product developer kind of a role for the for that organization so that's how it's going to be redefined now you are not just in customer support guy that with the AI because you understand the customer support you can also may understand the customer success as well so customer success customer support and account manager role can be club into one now earlier the time was like okay you have account manager and then you have a team one who can support and one who can just make sure like what success looks like and you always try to plug in more and more folks to provide a very good experience to that account where you are the account manager now account manager can do all this thing because things are contextual as okay that person who whom you are managing as a as a customer as account manager like okay if he's facing any kind of an issue you can just put a prompt like okay this is the result okay you can also do this thing to make sure you are you are getting the desired success in your in your company so that's how this entire role will be club into one now you're not the account manager you are a full-stack customer success manager kind of thing so i just give like couple of examples but you you can imagine at your own like whatever work you are doing whatever like surrounding you are having what are like two through three roles that can be club into one because of this one part everything you're describing like especially that product manager example where they can do the coding they can do the front it kind of just sounds like what an entrepreneur does they figure out everything and i feel like the future of a job fits a more classical definition of entrepreneur because you are full-stack you figure it out end to end because now you have the ability to do that absolutely so then there is the only one thing like a entrepreneur i guess would be the prime entrepreneur is like how visionary you are how hard decisions you can make and what kind of a risk you can take otherwise like okay because of an everything is going to be available at your fingertip you know need to worry about like okay i'm sitting in in some remote city of like world and i'm not having the enough resources to do my startup you have all the resources available in form of an generative AI it's like okay how business you are how good you can execute how good you you are at like making decisions and as I said like the hard decision in the softest that's it that that's what you're what you're required for the entrepreneurship if people are listening and you just want them to walk away with the main ideas the things that are going to impact them the things that you want to take away from this conversation what would that be if I summarize anti-conroizations that we are having in simple three sentence the first one is like AI just graduate from demos to dollar and the science fair is over the business fair really begins now and we are having thousands of users who can prove that things the second part is we are not building the code generators what we are building is a business launcher a big difference between that is like code generator give you files versus business launcher give you the revenue and we choose the revenue and the third in the last part is like the future belongs to builders not just in coders 500 million business required a platform and we are having 35 million coders which does not work unless we turn everyone into a builder and and that's what we are doing right now so for people listening can you just simply summarize what vibe solution means if I simply summarize what vibe solution stands for in terms of rocket we have a definition of every letter so s stands for understand the complete situation or defines the real objective l defines link all the pieces of context you makes it usable from day one t means tricks results that matter I mean like it read based on the real data oh means deliver outcome not output and means like make it natural to use and and this is like fundamental philosophy of building the vibe solution platform for the world it's the last thing I want to just chat about because now I know you as a founder and as a friend and the way that you think about building I think I think it's a little bit unique I think that we spoke about sustainability we spoke about you know putting customers investors stakeholders first we spoke about not just shipping demos other things that I know you do as a founder you adopt like a first principles approach to thinking I know we covered that and spoke with that a little bit last time but I think it's very it's a very important idea for me at least because I think that I subscribe to that too so for entrepreneurs founders over listening obviously they're super inches in AI but you as a founder have been successful because of the way that you think not just because of the products that you built so what does first principles thinking what is our philosophy mean why is that helped you so much so it's just helped me to think thoroughly in a very transparent way so we are living in the world of noise very 80% of like whatever information that you received is just a noise for you but because of former or some other factors we just carried away with like whatever we are doing in life because of something else happened in the market so this is the time when we need to think thoroughly through and idea and like what is good for you what is bad for you and all and without first principle if you just get biased with someone else you will not able to do it and that's why that's like most important thing that you need to have it in life to just stay focused to stay to stay true to be yourself and what is important for you and and and discovering the right answer to the problem that you are having in your startup and and that's why it's like most important thing nowadays because we are living in a very different world. Do you feel like first principles thinking allows you to spot inefficiencies that other people don't? So first principle is not about that but it's it's just help you think in deep and figuring out the solutions from grounds up so ultimately you divide everything into a smaller part and then you're trying to answer each and every questions like you get into death of like five why and then then you really get to know like okay this is really important for me or not or the way I'm defining the solution is it the right or not or can can it be something else and and and that's how it help you so ultimately will it increase the efficiency of like doing the work definitely it will help you make a less mistakes than in general and where do you feel like most founders go wrong in terms of how they think how they tackle problems like where do you see the opportunity for people to maybe think differently when it comes to building so just believe in your philosophy of doing the business and another part is understand your strength very well because like when you see someone else doing doing the same thing and you you you felt like okay I'm not doing it right and without figuring out your strength and and your philosophy and the mental model if you directly start adopting those things because someone else is doing you will you will go very wrong like for an example we know I know my strength and all and I know the kind of and capabilities that I'm having I may not able to build the frontier model very easily because that's that's not my strength is but if I say like okay open a growing very quickly and anthropic is growing very quickly I should jump into that that's the most horrible decision that I can do a lot of people probably feel that way and they do that yeah so ultimately here I took a very broad example but generally even we get carried away with a founder who is just sitting beside us and doing a good job but because he has some understanding and and and and strength on which he is building so you need to understand your strength very very clearly and make decisions based on that and how did you discover your strength like was it just the trial and error is I think I would say yes like it's a it's a 12 13 years of journey of building a start-ups and may start in in the beginning I'm I'm I'm the same who are like getting into FOMO and jumping here and there with like a new things but after 12 years you get that maturity I know that when you first started you just spent hours prompting AI just to understand it I think that most founders that are successful they're they're truly obsessed with what they're doing speak me about just a little bit about your experience with obsession and sort of the the ability to just immerse yourself in something and not leading to like potential success so see you need to set your goal very clearly and I differentiate clearly differentiate dreams and goal very like it's not the same thing so ultimately when you decide your goal like where you want to move based on based on like maybe your organizational goal your personal goal or anything and then you need to be very serious so once you define the goal you need to see like okay what skills you need to acquire how you will achieve your goal what are the key things to achieve that and based on that you need to start for put your 100% focus and then you need to say no to everything and as a founder that's that's the one of the biggest thing like how many things you can say no because every day you will receive something you will receive the new opportunity but does that opportunity align to your goal or can you deprioritize that opportunity or do you want to change your goal so ultimately you need to say no to everything you need to be you need to put yourself in a very high focus mode to achieve that particular goal and and and that's what is required right now because every day there is a new technology every day there is a new update in the AI but okay if you jump here and therefore everything you will not able to achieve anything at all so as a founder once you decide something be serious about that and just put yourself in a very high focus mode and unless and until you you achieve that particular thing how do you do that when there's salt when when your industry is moving so fast and there is so much information coming at you and ironically this is actually what we were speaking about with what rocket with soul for but before rocket exists you're building you're building it so you have to deal with the fallacies of being a human as a founder how do you prioritize and deprioritize so as I said like is it aligned to my goal or not or and many times like I just sit with my team okay this is our organizational goal and even if I'm moving away from it and if I'm introducing any new things any fancy and sexy things to do you need to say no and you need to remind me my goal like we shall this is not aligned to our goal unless and until you want to change your goal post then we'll think about it otherwise okay we listen to you this is good put it in our backlog whenever we are ready for the next thing we'll adapt it but till that just focus on things we are having in hand instead of just like go here and there about like new stuff one thing you said last time which I thought was really I think it was an important idea is you said focus on principles not methods yes can you explain what that means so that simply means is like now let's let's understand how L&M functions and there are way of there are like multiple methods you can use the L&M so there are like best practices of writing the prompt using the context build the system and all all those were methods but unless and until you understand the principles of working with a foundational model you will not able to get the desired success that you won't because that method can have a restriction and you cannot just build any startup based on the capabilities of that method which is derived by someone else what I truly believe is like okay once you understand the fundamentals of any technology and the principles of any technology you can found your own method so when someone said in my team like okay this is not possible with this prompting technique which anthropic is defined as a best practices is that why should we follow even the best practices of anthropic there is a L&M there is understanding of it we need to get into desktop that and we need to build our own methods so like we have a we identify our own methods and everything to work with the L&M so this is a very simple example of it but everywhere like okay either you you consume the product which is best which is developed on the base of like principles of let's say chemistry so you directly either consuming the product and you say like okay this product cannot solve my problem and you just ended up with you just giving up like okay this medicine is not solving my problem but if you truly understand the chemistry and if you are getting in this principle and if you are inventing your own medicine that may be work for you so that is the that is the when you understand the principles and the fundamentals of chemistry you can build your own method and the medicine you just not rely on someone else so that's how in whatever field like you just need to figure out like what you can add up very quickly and for what things you are expert of and that is your biggest strength that I'm talking about like you can capitalize on on your strength you can get into fundamentals and the principles and always try to define your own methods which can be key to your success and that can be a very big a mode for you as a founder what has surprised you most about AI in the past few months the way the speed of it so like initially we were thinking it will take some time to get into that quality and all that empathetic nature of L&M and everything so the speed the way it's evolving every month that is like very very surprising first because handling a quality and improvement at scale is very big like now you think like multi-million users and a multi-billion dollars of ARR that anthropic and open is having and still they are like moving very fast which we never seen in past and that is like most amazing thing and what do you think people what is the biggest misconception about AI what are people getting wrong about AI as I said like people it will replace the people people it will not replace it will reform the roles and it will empower the folks now rocket is life so people can use it so if people want to connect with you if people want to play around with it where where do they go so definitely you can simply search rocket.new and you will find the platform on website you can simply do a login and you can start using and if you really want to share your concerns or anything you can reach out to me on LinkedIn and X I'm always available like you can you can send me a message definitely I cannot give you answer immediately but definitely I will read your message yeah I'm not AI and generally like after after sign up you will always receive a mail from our side and and I read all the replies to be honest so like thousands of user like send a mail to me and I I revert them back so ultimately when you sign up you will receive mail from my personal ID and if you want to talk to me like I will be available for you so and for someone listen there's a few different people that listen to this podcast some of them are going to be very comfortable and jumping into it some of them are entrepreneurs that are not technical for somebody who is listening to this and understands the importance but as nowhere to start what's the first step they take when they go to rocket what do you suggest they do just they don't get overwhelmed yeah so it's like rocket is very easy to use in terms of like even if you're a non-technical person but still if you if you need any support the best part is like we have a really really good customer success and support team so ultimately if you write it to us like if if you are very serious about using the rocket platform you can simply reach out to us our support email it's it's available on our website as well like okay I want to understand and this is my like core purpose of using your system our team will help you will share the materials with you a little bit of a white cloth yes yes and we also help you to like like we help our customers to onboard like okay we give them a training we help them with their use case wherever they start so we have like complete team for that where we had so that I even in the beginning I mentioned like we always make sure like okay are we able to create impact in our users life so if they're very serious and if there are they're running a business we will understand their use case and we'll help them like okay how you can use rocket inefficient web