The Tough Reality Of Entrepreneurship (Sean Kelly & Digital Social Hour)

You know, traditional career isn't safe anymore. That's how, it really is how. If something is, like, physically draining my energy, I cut it out of my life, including people. You feel like you're in a shitty situation for a movie yourself, that situation? Do it. All right, welcome to the digital social hour. I'm your host, Sean Kelly. And I'm joining my guest today, Scott Clary. How are we doing? What's going on, man? Loving Miami. I'm in your town, man. Yeah, yeah. I love it. I love it. You got to show me around. After we did, we loved it. We will. We will. So that's going on. Not much. Give people a brief summary of what you've done and what you're working on. Yeah, sure. So super quickly, to give you a high level on my life, background was always in tech. Always on the sales and marketing side. So really strong sales and marketing started selling tech and then moved into sales and marketing leadership, led teams to the companies that I built that were acquired. So I had some success there. Now I'm focused on capital allocation, meaning I do some angel investing. I'm trying to build a private equity firm, which is a wild ride to put it lightly. I run a really large business podcast. Sort of summarized the different seasons of my life went from operator into investor, capital allocator, but this is very recent for me. So I'm making the transition at this point in my life because I've had career success, I've had entrepreneur success, I've had build a company, it's been acquired. Never as the entrepreneur CEO founder, but always bolting myself on is like the sales and marketing person helps scale it up. And it's tiring as hell. So right now where I want to be, I like building my own podcast, my own brand. I don't mind building companies, but I rather work with multiple founders in a portfolio manager or you have all my portfolio companies and manage them. And I think that's in terms of longevity, where most people that build companies eventually end up. And then we can take this conversation in a million different ways. But I'm dealing with, do I want to be VC, private equity? What are the differences between the two? Why making decisions is to build a private equity from versus just do angel investing, just do VC? Because there's so many different ways to make money once you have a little bit to play with. And even if you don't have a lot to play with, and I'm sort of learning that end of it now. So that's where I'm at. So yeah, long time sales and marketing, I mean, that's sort of my thing. So that's amazing. So yeah, your podcast is incredible. You've interviewed some of the most successful entrepreneurs in the world, you know, billionaires, guys like Grant Cardone. What was it like interviewing Grant? Because he's a controversial figure. So funny, because I actually don't, when you talk to him, I don't find him that controversial. I think he's controversial in the sense that he just doesn't have a filter. But when you talk to him, like one on one, he's actually really down to earth, pragmatic dude. So he doesn't come across as like an asshole. He just says it like it is, which I think for a lot of people that throws them off. He's another marketing guy too. Like he knows that if he says the most ridiculous shit online, he's gonna get clicks, which is cool. And it's also his personality. Like I think his personality shines through. When I spoke to him, it was a pretty normal conversation. So when I spoke to him, and that was a fun interview because it was during COVID. So like it was right when shit was hitting the fan, and we just had a conversation about how, you know, traditional career isn't safe anymore. So the things that you thought, you know, you looked at your parents, you saw them work a job for 30, 40 years, and that was like your model of what success was. COVID fucked that all up. So COVID screwed that up. 180 turned it on to Ted. And I mean, like Grant raises money to buy real estate. That's kind of been his message all along. But in that particular conversation, it was like, okay, regardless of whether or not you put money into my real estate assets, or you work with me like find a way to get cash flow so that you don't depend on your nine to five. And that funny enough, a little bit of a segue is sort of what I'm working on in my life right now. So like how do I buy cash flow? How do I buy businesses? How do I invest in businesses? So that I don't have to be working in a business or working for one particular company for the rest of my life to make money. Cause that's that's how it really is how. And I mean, COVID, everyone is furloughed laid off. So all the shit that we thought was secure and safe and all the big companies that we thought would never let us go. That's what happened. People got let go in mass. And it kind of hit people that were complacent. Like, you know, like it really hit them like a ton of bricks. Like people didn't expect it. So, you know, whether or not it's investing and real estate, it's investing in businesses. It's just like understanding how to start a side hustle whatever the fuck it is. I've done like all of the things you can possibly do. And I've tried them all and tried to figure them all out. I think that the message from Grant and the message now that I speak about is like find ways to sort of future proof yourself financially. So that you aren't relying on that one particular job, one particular company, one particular source of income. And yeah, great. I think that's that's Grant's message. Whether or not it's it's harsh and it comes across. But I mean, it's real. Like it's very real. So it's like a wake up call for a lot of people. I resonate with me at least that part of it does. Absolutely. One of the things I like about you is you're very open with the reality of entrepreneurship. People don't talk about the lawsuits. They don't talk about the anxiety, the late nights. But you're very open about it. What makes you feel so comfortable to be open about it? That's an interestingly worded question. What makes me feel comfortable to be open about it? Yeah, because I feel like most people don't even want to talk about it publicly. Because I've dealt with all the shit and I don't think it serves anyone to sugarcoat the reality. I don't think that makes anybody's life easier. So if you are a good human being and you've experienced something in your life and you've learned from it, why would you not want somebody else that was you 10 years ago to not go through all the bullshit that you went through? Like, I don't see how that's a good way to operate through life. I don't believe in gating knowledge. I mean, this is sort of like my thesis on life. I started a podcast interviewing people. Didn't monetize it. I monetized ads later on, but I didn't gait anything. Didn't drop a course. I was podcasting while I was still working a CRO for a company. And my thought around that was, I'm going to get awesome people that have experienced shit and podcasts is called success story. But I'll plug it. But the point is it's not really meant to focus on successes. It's almost like it's meant to show that somebody who has success has gone through all this bullshit along the way. So that's why I started this show. Because I want people to understand that life is not black and white. It's not easy. It's not like, and it's also not like the people that have achieved the billionaires, the people that have made over 100 million, the people that have IPOs and exit. It's not like they haven't gone through shit themselves. So I think that sort of removing the veil and exposing what entrepreneurship really is is a really healthy way to educate people to show them opportunity, but to not bullshit what they're getting themselves into. So we just spoke about why jobs are not great anymore. Why working is, well, people want to work. Not everybody wants to be an entrepreneur. Not everybody should be an entrepreneur. And jobs are great for some people. Entrepreneurship is great for some people. But the point is you just have to understand what you're getting yourself into and the potential drawbacks to each. There are a lot of drawbacks and putting all your cards on a table in one career for your entire life. There's also a lot of drawbacks in working in a starting company as a founder. A lot of drawbacks, there's a lot of drawbacks raising money from venture capitalists. There's a lot of drawbacks, even joining startup as an early employee getting a little bit of equity in that company. There's drawbacks in everything, but I think you have to just be more candid about it. And if more people are candid about all the different things that they go through in each of those scenarios, then the person coming out of college can make a really smart, educated decision, know what the fuck they're getting themselves into. Because putting all your cards on career is tough. Putting all your cards on startup is equally as tough. A lot of depression, a lot of stress. Again, you mentioned lawsuits. But it's not just like lawsuits. It's like, you are responsible for everything. So yeah, you deal with the lawsuits. You deal with the bankruptcies. You deal with when you can't pay your staff. You deal with when you pitch a VC and hear she tells you your ideas shit. You deal with when you sign an LOI with a VC and they screw you over on terms. And later on, you realize when you exit your company, you don't own half as much as you thought you would. And even though Bloomberg is writing about $100 million exit, maybe after taxes, you're only getting a wire for $5 million or whatever it is. Or actually, you get the wire for a cent pay taxes. But the point is, it's not easy. So that's why I talk about it so candidly. Right. And you mentioned college earlier. Is that something you will recommend to your kids? Or would you recommend going to college for upcoming entrepreneurs? That's a good question. So I think there's reasons why people should go to college. I learned a lot of soft skills in college. So I learned to not fuck around in college, because high school is super easy for me. So high school was super easy, barely tried, always killed it. That didn't fly so well with college when you're managing that many classes, that many courses, that a higher level of sophistication. So I think it allows you to be very pragmatic about where you place your time in your energy and just be a great time manager. And then also understand how to go into a particular topic that you may not care about and learn enough to be efficient at it. I think that's a good skill to use and learn. But after I got my MBA, all the shit that I learned in my MBA, I had already learned that. The majority of it working in startups and working in even large companies. So college is good for a variety of reasons. I don't think it's necessary, but I think that it can help someone structure their life better. So that it's a little less chaotic, because I can go into a new topic and because of what I took away from college, University of Canadian, but college, same difference. What I took away from that is I can go into any topic and reach a certain level of proficiency in that topic to at least be knowledgeable in it. And I felt that being exposed to a wide variety of things in college gave me that skill set. But in terms of does it place me in a career that I need? Well, there's some degrees that you actually have to get to, I mean, like we're talking like lawyer, doctor, dentist, whatever. But outside of that, it is starting to lose some of its value. And I also don't believe that it's worth the price tag. And especially if we're talking about Ivy League shit, I mean, you better network the shit out of that institution while you're there. Or if not, it is not worth $100,000 a year. And I think business, it's a ton of money, dude. And a lot of business leaders, CEOs, people that are hiring, are understanding that there's a lot of things that they will look for that is not a Stanford or Harvard MBA. I mean, I don't look for any of that. There's things that I will look for in somebody, but it will never be that. So it has some merit if you take the right things away from it. If you're just going to fuck off for four years completely, then it's not worth it just to get the degree. Yeah, someone who hires people, I think that's a unique perspective. What stands out on a resume for you? What stands out on a resume? So it depends on what I'm hiring for. Let's talk about startup land. It's somebody that funny enough. The most important thing is somebody that actually hasn't done the job in a Fortune 500 or Fortune 1000 company. So when I'm hiring for startup, I want somebody that is hyper ambitious, like all the buzzwords, right? Great ambition, like all those things are great to look for, but you always want people that are OK trying to do things the way that it hasn't been done before. So the worst hires that I've always made are people that I thought were hyper-experienced and they come from enterprise, a really, really, really large business, a ton of skills on paper, awesome. You put them into a startup, they fuck it up. They always fuck it up because they're like, it can't be done without resources, without a team supporting me, without an EA or whatever support they had in that big-ass company. And then they end up sabotaging their own success because that's the only way they've ever operated. So you got to think, even as an entrepreneur, it's very hard to make the shift from working in a large company to working in a startup. It's exceptionally hard for you. Imagine a heart it is for somebody who has never worked in a startup before and you're hiring them from and then you're putting them into that startup, that always screws up people. And it screws up that team, it screws up that, you don't do it. I can see that. So find somebody that has the basic skill sets that is proficient, that is an A-player because A-players are very important to hire. You don't want to hire bees and seas and you want somebody that will set the bar. In a startup environment, you're usually hiring somebody smarter than yourself at that thing, but they haven't done it or they haven't, you don't want to be the first time they've moved away from large enterprise. That's the best way I can put it. Interesting. That would be my best advice. If they have moved away from enterprise, they've navigated that transition and then you can find them at a later point in their career when they understand what startup is and they've shown success in startup preferably at a similar stage company and a similar role. Fine, you can bring them in, but just don't be that first point of transition. Right. So like we said earlier, you've interviewed some of the most successful entrepreneurs, 70 millionaires, billionaires. What are some common traits you've noticed from interviewing all these people? So one of the most common traits is probably one of the reasons why it's important to be very candid about entrepreneurship. It takes an unreasonable amount of energy and time and commitment to be successful at building something. So, you know, hustle culture is not great, but candidly, if you are going to build the best thing in that category and you're gonna take a business from zero to 100 million, 500 million, a billion IPO, like there will be a period of your time where you will not have balance. And I think that that's what people have to understand about entrepreneurship. I don't love hustle culture, but it's a reality if you really want to take it to the next level. And I think that there's obviously some exceptions to the rule, but the majority of people have disclosed that there are very real periods of discomfort in their life that they had to take on and they were willing to take that on to take their business to the next level. And I think that that's the reality that people have to understand. It impacts your life, it impacts your relationships, it impacts your mental health, your wellbeing. It could impact your money if you aren't finding product market fit, if you aren't scaling quick enough, it can be very stressful. So yeah, don't love hustle culture, but you will have to hustle for a period of time. I mean, even myself, I built the podcast while I was working full time in a startup environment. So you know, I'm putting in 10 hours a day in the startup and then evenings and weekends are all podcasting, sourcing guests, doing interviews. They won, I had no budget for it. Now I get ad revenue, so I rolled that back into the team, but day one, I'm doing all the shit myself. So video, audio, and that's because I chose to do it that way. I mean, you can be successful and then you can have a whole team supporting you at a later stage in your career. But like, at that point, I knew I wanted to start it early. I wanted to, I wanted to get it off the ground and I knew it was gonna take hours and energy and effort to do, but I'm also a firm believer that if you do anything for 10 years, you will see success at that thing. And the day one version of that thing may not be the day, year 10 version of that thing, but if you iterate over 10 years, you will build success in that thing and there will be some measure of success. So I stand by that completely and I'm like, okay, if I bust my ass for five to 10 years of my life doing this one thing that I know will pay off, I have no problem with that. That's a very small portion of my life for something that honestly is an asset that I'll use the day I die. So that's sort of the reality of entrepreneurship and the reality of a lot of people that have built things. And you'll also see, you'll notice, when people build things, they'll build it, they'll exit it and there's a kind of person that's an entrepreneur. And once they exit it, most people are not comfortable. Most people are not just comfortable, just like sitting on your ass. So again, I interview a lot of people, I'll give you two very good examples. One of my good friends, Joseph Martin, he sold this company Bossy Charm for 520 million. I think about three years ago now. Took some time. Last, I think three days ago, actually, then we'll put dates so we'll keep it evergreen, but three days ago, we're sitting at a coffee shop, I need to figure out what to build next. The guy never really has to work ever again, but it's a mindset. So when you build something once and then you sell that thing and you have nothing going on really in your life compared to previously to that exit, you do have to go into something and a lot of people feel that drive and that need. I'll give you another example. So Matt Higgins, he's a founder of RSC Ventures, he's a guest shark on Shark Tank. So obviously, super successful guy, put in his time, built a massive private equity firm, investment firm, he's like good friends with Gary Vee. He just launched the book. He just wrote a book. You're talking about the process of writing books. I'm thinking about doing this too. And he was like, listen Scott, I like went full entrepreneur mode. So I wanted this book to be successful. So I was like sleeping four hours a night for like a month or two, writing, promoting, getting on podcasts, traveling, doing in-person, doing as much PRs as I could, going on Fox and MSNBC and CNBC, whatever. He's like, but that is my version of how to take something to market. So there's gonna be a period of my life. There's gonna be super uncomfortable. But I know that when I get over that hump, it's gonna be good. But I have to be okay with that of those four hour sleepless nights. I'm just putting a ton of work. And he said, even now it was strange to me because he built his company successful. But now this book was like a passion project for him. And he said, it was, it took a toll on my health. Even though I've done this a thousand times, I have all these portfolio companies. I work with founders all the time, even doing it again at this stage of my life. I thought it would be no problem. It still takes a toll on your health. And he's also very passionate and very much an advocate for. If you wanna take something to the next level, sometimes that's what it actually takes. Wow. So yeah, sometimes you gotta sacrifice your health and it's pretty crazy. I did that in college. I slept like four hours a day. It's not. Yeah, dude, that's a very dangerous thing to say. You have to sacrifice your health to be successful. I think you can be careful about it. But it's not relaxing. Yeah. That's the best way I can put it. It's not relaxing. I mean, my health is fine. I mean, I still think it's bad. You look good, man. I work at it. But I mean, could I have spent more time with my girlfriend? Could I have seen my family more while I'm in that season of building in my life, totally? So I think another, and I've gotten sick. I've gotten burnt out again. Not a badge of honor, just a reality when you're really passionate about something and you're putting the time in. And it's not like it's gonna be like this all the time. But if you're building something you're working full time and you have you have to go travel, like you're trying to maintain the same schedule, you're gonna get burnt out, you're gonna get sick. It's just a matter of doing all the things and trying to make everything work, managing your whole life and it's difficult. But I think that outside of just, there's obviously a lot of things you could do for your health and wellbeing, mental and physical. But also the relationships you have. That's another thing that people don't really understand about entrepreneurship. And this is like a very, it's gonna be a lot of like very negative, a lot of positive entrepreneurship as well. But I think that there's realities that people don't talk about a lot. Like you mentioned before, that I rather people understand some of these things going in as opposed to just being blindsided by them later on. So relationships, friends, family, spouse, better half, girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever it is, those are things that sometimes do not survive somebody that is working in full capacity. And like multiple examples of that. So I think I'm blessed because I have a girlfriend that we've been together before and a half years and she's building her own thing and she operates at the same level. But like many examples, people that I've interviewed on my show and I won't name names because this is a very personal thing. But a lot of people that have divorced, have broken up with after 10, 11, 20, 30 years because it just drift away. Time and focus is not on that other person. And unfortunately that hurts a lot of relationships, especially if the two people don't understand what they're getting into when they start building something. So say I'm dating a girl and we're both working nine to five jobs, just got out of college and I'm like, I wanna start a business. And she's like, yeah, sure, go for it. I don't know what I'm getting myself into. I'm not setting expectations. When she started dating me, she did not expect somebody working 80 hours a week, never going out anything. And I haven't really prioritized her in a while. That causes strain, that causes relationships to break. So it's not that relationships can't work but you better be sure that you're setting expectations and that you're purposefully trying to make the relationship work because more often than not, it can cause enough strain to break it. That's something that people don't think about ever. Yeah, I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs, almost everyone I know at least has issues balancing work and their relationship. Like it seems to be a common issue. It's work, it's money, and it's like it's funny enough. It's never like lack of money. It's like when one partner is way more successful than they thought. I've actually, I haven't seen this as much, I haven't seen this as much with men being more successful. Maybe, yeah, men get money and they get an ego than they cheat and that's horrible. But I've actually seen when two partners, I have a friend, she was with her, I'm assuming fiance, she's with a man for 11 years. She started building a company, hyper successful, generating multi-million dollars in revenue per year. And the man couldn't deal with it. And they broke up because of that. So the man couldn't deal with the woman being the breadwinner in the house, which is that's a wild thought to me. But I mean, there's a variety of things that basically impact the power balance of a relationship that people going into that day one, they did not expect. So there was a shift in the energy and the relationship that caused some sort of friction. And when you take on entrepreneurship, there was such a massive shift, whether or not it was that very weird, but specific example, or it's you're working too much. There's a shift in the energy between the two people that I think a lot of people just don't think about going into it, which will basically, if people don't level themselves up and be okay with the new version of that relationship, then of course they're not going to be comfortable with it. If you dated somebody and they were this kind of person and then 10 years later, they're a very different person. That stresses you out. And entrepreneurship is forcing you to evolve. Very quickly. Always. There is never a situation where you go into build a business, even if it's not successful, where you will not evolve as a human being. So you better be sure that your partner is cool with that, and is willing to join you on that ride. Because if not, that's when shit's not great. No, I love that. I never thought of it that way. That's really impactful. Earlier you mentioned burnout, and there's all these new studies on how stress is really harmful and can potentially take years off your life. How do you deal with your stress and what advice would you give to people that are feeling stressed? So for me, a lot of it, yeah, so I work on things that I do enjoy doing. So I'm very quick too. If something is like physically draining my energy, I cut it out of my life, including people. I really don't have energy or time for that. And I feel like people keep, and you know this, when you go into a room, you talk to somebody, it's just a negative vibe. You know these people, and I think a lot of people keep those individuals around too long, and it's not just individuals. It could also be, it could also be you're working for a job too long while you're trying to build something, and maybe that thing that you're building is successful, but you're still working for a boss, you hate because you're scared, like that nine to five acts you make you depressed, and you feel like you walk into that office, and you feel the energy drain. Like when you feel like you're in a shitty situation, and hopefully you have the ability to remove yourself from that situation, do it, as soon as possible, like grip the bandaid off. Everybody knows when they're around people or doing things that don't give them energy, kill that shit, because that compounds your burnout exponentially. Other things that can easily to burn out is multitasking. So I'm speaking about working a nine to five while starting a side hustle. People are like, well, isn't that multitasking? Yes, but no, meaning that if I'm working my nine to five or if I'm working on my side hustle, I'm not bullshitting with other stuff while I'm doing that very specific task. So burnout is a real thing. People that multitask think they're good at it, they're not, there's studies done on what's called attention residue, which means that every time you switch tasks, you get slightly less efficient, and you really build up residue in your brain that allows you to or doesn't allow you to operate as efficiently as if you were just hyper focused on one task. And there's actually studies, and I'm not pretending to be a doctor, but there are studies that are done on attention residue. So to avoid burnout, focus, hyper focus on the thing that you're doing in the moment and only that. And then if you do need to switch tasks, there's actually a strategy that you basically time block how long you're gonna be working on the new task, and the plan that you will have to return to the old task, and when you do that, you mentally sort of enable yourself to switch to that new task without causing additional attention residue, which again, over the course of the day, if we're constantly switching tasks, builds up, and then increases fatigue, decreases the ability to make decisions, increases the feelings of burnout. So hyper focusing is one way in a very tactical way to reduce burnout as well. Again, everything in your life that isn't in line with what you're doing can increase your burnout. So if you have a partner that isn't supportive, if you have parents that aren't supportive, if you, I'm trying to think, you're saying to cut your parents off? No, I'm not saying to cut your parents off, but I am saying that if they are not supportive of you, then you do have to limit if you're talking to them every day, and you're calling them every day, and every day they're giving you shit, that's not conducive to building something. So fine, talk to them once a week, or talk to them once every two weeks, but the point is, if they are draining your energy, you have to be cognizant of that. So, okay, are you gonna kill the relationship with your parents? No, obviously not, but you also can't let them sabotage your every single day. Right, that's tough for a lot of people that have really great relationships with their parents, but I would say like, your relationship isn't great if they're not supporting what you're doing, and they're not supporting what you're passionate about. So don't break it off, but understand that it's hurting you, and it is causing burnout. So, okay, so relationships, focus, trying to think of what else. I would say physical health is a big one. So, if you aren't in great physical shape, and you don't have to be like a, you know, five percent body fat, but if you aren't going to the gym, if you aren't working out, if you aren't eating right, if you aren't understanding what foods sort of optimize your energy levels, so that you can perform at like, people performance all the time, like I have a very specific diet that I use that's worked for me that I've sort of tried to perfect over, you know, my entire life. I think that that can lead to burnout too. You're always eating garbage. I mean, if you're always drinking and all the same bullshit. I mean, most of the people that I know that are high performers also try and bio have to some degree. So, they're always trying to find ways to operate at peak capacity, right, peak performance. So, whatever the food they eat, the work at routine they do, the sleep schedule they have, it's all, they all try and maximize their day as much as possible. And when you maximize your day, and you are hitting walls at 4 p.m. because you didn't have a shitty lunch, yeah, it will help you, it will help you do more, it will help you, I guess, not just do more, but do it better so that you're not writing shitty emails or you're not the work that you do or the, you know, the document putting together, it's not like filled with errors and shit like that. When you are operating a high energy, so I say that also helps avoid burnout. But it's not like one thing, it's a combination of like everything, but being aware of all the different things that can sort of like hijack your day in your life. I think that's the number one way to avoid burnout. Absolutely. What are some bio hacks that you do do fast? Do you take pills? Yeah, so I'm a pretty heavy coffee drinker. I've talked around with new tropics, but I don't really like them that much. I find that most new tropics like they give you some sort of focus, but then personally, I get like a massive down after new tropics. And like we're not talking at all, we're talking like actual new tropics. So like I don't love the feeling for me. My perfect day is coffee 9 a.m. one and usually around five so like three cups a day. That's late. Yeah, I'm fine with that though, but I'll go to bed around like one o'clock. So it's not too too bad for me. I'll do intermittent fasting. So that means like a 16 and eight. So 16 hours fast, it eight hours eating. Sometimes I even do like a 20 hour fast for our eating window and I'll do that in the morning. So I won't eat until around three or four. And for me, coffee plus fasting in the morning gives me optimal energy. So I feel like on like zoned in, like candidly better than most new tropics. And there's no massive down because the only stimulant you're on is caffeine. Right. I mess around with diets. Like I operate better on a low carb diet. So what I'll try and do is like Monday to Friday, I'll usually do keto or low carb as much as possible. Saturday, Sunday, I'm like, I'll refeed and do like a higher carb diet. Like really don't care what I eat on Saturday, Sunday. And I found that that sort of combination is the best for like energy levels just for like operating for being alert, for being like cognitively present. And I also find like of course, like that diet plays into like my workout routine too. So that's like my best possible diet for working out. I don't do a ton of cardio. I should do more. I don't do ton of cardio. I love lifting, always love lifting. Yeah, that's pretty much it. How many days a week do you lift? Four. Usually four. It's pretty doable. Yeah, it's like it's very doable. Yeah, it's like it's like really not a lot. And like I mean, like this is not a fitness podcast, but I mean, like I'll do like a like a chest and tries back and buys like shoulder abs, like very basic split. Yeah, pretty like normal bodybuilder split. But I find that works and combined with like a keto diet or a low carb diet, which is it's also a very high protein diet. It's like you end up looking good too. And you end up functioning better. So for me, it's a win-win. But I mean, like nutrition and diet recommendations, it's really dependent on your schedule. It's dependent on like how food interacts with your body. I know people that die on low carb. They die? Not die. Like, like there's no energy. Like they don't die. Like I mean, like they have no energy. Not actually die. No, like there's like they're not performing well. Yeah, no, not die. No, it's interesting. You said that. I found out last week, I'm actually allergic to most carbs. Like fortified in and rich stuff all over. But is that like that's not what's the word, like glucose and tolerant? No, there's a gene. So I took a 10x health systems test. Oh, that gene test. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I found out America, for some reason, they do a lot of fortified and enriched grains. The food here is garbage. Yeah, so I'm a good at all the garbage. I mean, like most of my diet, like you're talking about keto and low carbs, mostly meat. Yeah, like it is mostly meat throughout the week. I eat very few grains. What type of meat, like organic press food? I mean, any type of meat is better than eating shit that you'd get from the restaurant. But yeah, organic, grass fed, sometimes kosher as well. It's pretty well taken care of. Chicken, beef, nothing too crazy. Find different ways to make it not. I mean, not that's what I like, yeah. Yeah. Would you ever do the carnivore diet? Isn't that just pure meat? Just pure meat. Yeah, I would. OK. I would. I get bored, though. Yeah. Rogan does it, but I don't. I don't feel like it has enough benefit. Because I would literally lose my mind, just with how bored I'd be about the food that I'm eating every day. I feel like low carb or keto, where you can include cheese and maybe some nuts as well. At least it gives you enough variety throughout the week to not be bored. I mean, I don't like being bored with my food. If I like a dish, I'll eat it, but I don't want to just eat meat. Yeah, you know those people that meal prep the chicken and rice every day? Well, that's like, yeah, that's like a hardcore body builder and kind of like, I also find that part. But I enjoy eating heavier fat foods, because I find it tastes better versus because there's so many different diets, right? All diets, ultimately, what you're trying to do is you're trying to optimize your workout and your fitness performance. But then you also want to make sure that you have energy levels, and you're not peaking and valuing all day. So chicken and rice is really good for high protein, moderate carb, low fat diet. But when I do that kind of diet, I'll maybe perform 10% better in the gym, because I do have a few more carbs going through my body. But I find that my peaks and valleys, I'll hit walls throughout the day. And I'll be very tired. So I'll be tired right before lunch. I'll be super hungry. I'll be tired around 3, 4 o'clock. My sleep won't be as good if I have carbs in my diet. There's a whole bunch of reasons. It's not like you can't do it. It's just, I don't enjoy it as much. I don't operate as well. Yeah, that makes sense. Scott, spend a pleasure, man. Any closing comments or where people can find out more? No, dude, that's awesome. I love it. Short and sweet. OK, ScottDeclary.com, everything's there. Very cool. All right, you heard it there, guys. Digital social hour. I'll see you next week.