Shais Taub - Rabbi and Author | How To Live A Truly Meaningful Life

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rabbi shy's tab is one of them he's a Hasidic scholar a writer in a deep thinker but more than that he spent years helping people navigate addiction purpose and faith when a person knows what their purpose is and it's a purpose greater than self then having money is great because it's an incredible tool anything that you're doing without money you can do it better and bigger with money but if you don't have a sense of purpose and what am I here for then you would be actually much better off being poor content creation it's like figure out who you authentically are and lean into that your naturalities they can now find you his book god of our understanding reframe recovery through a Jewish lens but its impact has gone far beyond even the new york times took rabbi tab has a way of making the complex feel clear the abstract feel personal and today he's bringing that insight here children always want a connection to their parent we would have the parent is parable your relationship with your parents affects your entire world view being able to succeed and make money it actually potentially should enhance your ability to live in accordance with your god given mission in this world welcome to success story i'm your host scott clary the success story podcast is part of the hub spot podcast network hub spot not only supports the show but they support entrepreneurs that's why it's such a huge fan of hub spot and i'm very grateful for hub spot for supporting the show because they help entrepreneurs and as a fellow entrepreneur i know it takes a lot to grow your business a lot of audience attracting a lot of sales a lot of marketing a lot of leads for a lot of channel management a lot of content a lot of long days late nights a lot of weekends a lot of wishing there wasn't easier way but there is with breeze this is hub spots new collection of AI tools it's easier than ever for marketers for entrepreneurs to attract audiences to increase leads to score customers to close deals fast which means pretty soon your company will have a lot to celebrate visit hub spot calm slash marketers to learn more what do you think what you speak about it's home with so many different types of people first of all as you know when we're creating content there's always a struggle between what you want to deliver and what you think people would like to hear i mean it's inevitable that we do take into account what the audience wants and at the extreme end of that is called selling out or pandering and just you know giving the audience whatever they'll click on even if you don't believe in it right but then the other extreme is you just you're speaking to yourself an audience of one but it's literally an audience of one and nobody else comes looking for it so i've tried to really really tries to be as close as possible to only saying things that i myself would sit in the center um but at the same time there is a certain amount of keeping in mind what question is someone already asking that i may be answering in other words i'm not changing the subjects that i speak about i'm speaking about what i want to speak about but the way i frame it is in a context of well this person is already asking certain questions they don't know they're looking for my answer but let's say how do i be a better father or mother or how do i balance work and family you know it's so i may have a message that i was going to say anyway but if i can frame it as an answer to a question that someone's already asking that seems to be like the sweet spot as far as content creation and i'm not an entrepreneur but in business also that's as i understand it's always like what problem are you solving for someone? no of course and i'm curious when you started putting your content was it purposely speaking to a wider audience or were you more focused on people that were trying to learn from Pora from religious texts that you thought through? it's funny i have so many different audiences and i my content journey that's a phrase that you i learned from you two minutes ago my content journey has been very therapeutic for me because for a while i wasn't sure like who my speaking to is it Jews looking to study Torah or even non Jews but they want to study Jewish spirituality or you know a lot of people come to my looking for my content or looking for when i speak about addiction and recovery which is one of the subjects that i sometimes talk about or parenting is another niche that i really become passionate about and i'm trying to figure out who is my audience and then when i discovered that this was so like it was very healing for me the algorithm does not like confusion of the algorithm can't figure out who you are it gets confused and it's sort of um pass you know move on to the next guy um so then how do you send strong signals to the algorithm that will be the opposite of confusing? so because once the algorithm figures out oh that's who this guy is then it goes and finds all the people who are your most natural audience of the world says come on guys right here right here okay so i realized there's i heard this quote attributed to dolly part and she said find out who you are and be that on purpose so i figured out it was a journey that the magic formula to content creation is just be you know in normal life we try to get in our light a little bit for the convenience of others always the okay and i realized and and another topic i speak about by the way is uh neuro divergent minds and there's there's an expression there like in the autism spectrum world of like masking like high masking individuals who are trying to act neurotypical in the world right so they don't incur the wrath of some type of so violation of some social code that they were oblivious to right so in normal life we're like masking a lot to try to be like everyone else because that's that's what works i feel safe feel safe right um but with content creation it's like no the opposite figure out who you authentically are and lean into that because now you're sending on ambiguous signals and your audience your natural audience not creating an audience they exist they can now find you and it's it's so like forget about content creation on a personal level it was so liberating to realize like i don't have to be everything to everyone but i have to be my truest self for the people who are looking for that and they wouldn't be able to find me if i was trying to be like the rest of the crowd but it's interesting because you would think that the audience is already trying to find you would be a Jewish audience that would be the de facto audience that makes a ton of sense but then to counter that point your audience is now evolved to a non-Jewish audience so what was the thing that you leaned into that's signal yeah um and the funny thing is you know i still speak very overtly openly about faith about belief i still give i even give text-based Torah classes where we're studying from like mystical texts in the Hebrew and translate i mean those don't perform as well as other types of content but i'm saying i'm doing it all on one on one platform um you know what it is again and i'm going back to the same point that i just made about being your authentic self it's just talking about what i'm going through it's personal you know and if i'm trying to get only people in the world seven billion eight billion yeah almost they if i'm trying to get eight billion people it's not going to work but i don't need eight billion if i'm trying to find my audience my market share which already exists but i haven't found them and they haven't found me then really it's just about showing up every day as a content creator and being like this is what i'm struggling with today this was what helped me today this is what's inspiring me today and it sounds almost like so easy but it's not easy because we're so programmed to want to just be what people what we think people want us to be and it's so unnatural to be natural it's true it's funny it's very ironic i was the angle i was actually interested in i understand where you're coming from the angle i was interested in more so than you being just yourself and you tapping into an audience that wants to hear of your daily struggles what i was curious about i find this fascinating is why ancient wisdom hits home so so well with modern audience because that's i think that's really what you do in a very very good way and it's interesting because all these problems that people deal with on a day-to-day that we were talking about this before we were chatting about what we want to speak about all these problems people deal with on a day-to-day relationships success finances kids you speak about you know you speak about anxiety stress all the yeah it's like all been solved a thousand times before and that's i think that's a unique piece of wisdom that you tap into because you're not talking there's different kinds of people that motivate right that you can go to the Tony Robbins of the world but that's based on you know the past 50 years of wisdom you're tapping into something much deeper and and i think there's a lot more to what you tap into than that yeah but we're talking about the human condition right so like that's that's timeless right that human the human psyche you know i would say as god created it hasn't changed technology has changed but we're the same and we have the same problems and same solutions and the good old timeless wisdom is incredibly timely when you know how to apply it and i think that's what people are resonating one did um we were you were always religious yeah i'm more less yeah more less more yeah i mean i actually became more religious through my life i want why is that not because i wanted to because i found that there are some people who find spirituality inspiring or you know there's spirituality versus religion they find even religion and ritual they find that comforting and i'm not like that um i'm not like that the more i live in this world the more i need i don't want to use cheesy words that are going to sound like hyperbole but the more i need to be at least a part of my day tapped into some plane of god consciousness um to function here in the world it doesn't make sense what i'm saying it does i think that a lot of people feel that need for god's consciousness and what they do is they replace it with some other thing sure of course adding that's a very unhealthy modern day for not well not just modern day but no that's also timeless that is the human condition but more so than i think ever before we have easier access to distractions today with the human condition is that that craving for distraction but today it's just the the the available supply of distractions was so ample today one of my favorite thoughts not favorite in a good way but favorite in a light bulb moment ways if there is no god in someone's life they find another god and that god could be work that god could be money that god could be you got to serve somebody like you got to serve somebody but Dylan said that you got to serve somebody maybe the devil maybe the lord you got to serve somebody god let him hate it that by the way why because he was an atheist i didn't know that yeah well he says an imagine imagine is no heaven um so he was very upset with Bob Dylan said that basically you're gonna worship something you got to choose exactly and i think that people i think that people i think they just sort of meander through life and half the time they don't even know who they're serving that's true too and then they wake up and again a lot of the people that listen to this podcast are entrepreneurs they you know they sort of idolize these people that have made millions tens of millions hundreds of millions and because of that idolization that's the correct word um they start to mimic and they start to sort of pursue that same journey and then i see it a lot because i have a lot of exited entrepreneurs on the show they exit and then there's lack of fulfillment because they were following the wrong quote unquote god their whole life and it doesn't matter what version of god that is but it's it's money god it's it's hustle it's whatever it's progress it's success and with an idol you make sacrifices to an idol which means you wake up one day and you realize how much you gave up for this this false god and that can be incredibly painful to realize what you chose to to give up and what was it for what was it for i mean we all make sacrifices but at the end of the day or at the end of a lifetime you want to at least feel that your sacrifices were towards something meaningful you deal with a lot of people and i'm assuming are a lack of better term looking for god to some degree right or like you say they may be looking for in that knowing that because they're filling it with something else so what are the um you have like a you know like a frontline view of all the human-conditioned problems that people are dealing with what do you what are you most concerned about with humanity not to make it a what they question like what's the big problem what's a day problem today that you feel that people are really seeking i mean you can literally find it in your most search youtube videos but what are the big problems the people are are seeking answers to what are the big problems that they're seeking answers to um i mean obviously anxiety is is big everybody's anxious everybody's anxious today we're overstimulated which is simply overstimulated where our brains were not built to take in as many images and sounds as we take in on a daily basis that's that's a big thing there's an interesting pendulum swing going on as far as families you know sometimes things fall apart and then they start to rebuild you know you have to hit rock bottom sometimes and i'm seeing in this time in which we live an incredible um it's an overlap in some ways is still falling apart but in some ways it's already starting to rebuild uh focus on on the strength of the family that's a huge thing where people are not just realizing i want to spend more time with my family you know that everyone knows that's a classic thing um like there's a nobody regrets on their deathbed that they spent too much time with their family right but more than that it's just spending time with your family it's having a meaningful connection like actually being able to teach my children to be their guide to be their their mentor in life not just to be this authority figure who invokes well i put a roof over your head so you have to listen to me which doesn't work today anyway so um and so there's a lot of stress with that because a lot of times people didn't receive in the family where they grew up they didn't receive the tools that they need in order to be able to raise their own children that's a big thing that people are searching for is help with that and it's a healthy thing that people want help with that well because i think you're you're going to level deeper so when i look at family unit i think there's already a breakdown in people seeking traditional nuclear family compared to again 50 years ago so that's like level one or or first thought second thought would be uh especially in this audience people sort of focus on again the wrong north star and they wake up 30 years in the future after building and they realize that yes they did have a family but did they build a meaningful connection with it and now they're lost and they don't know what to do or their family's broken or their kids don't speak to them anymore or they're you know one two three x divorced it's it's horrible especially in like a high performing uh succeed at all costs is a very possible scenario by the way the guy who's let's say 60 years old made his money like did very well i can think of right now five conversations I've had in the past 30 days with this type of guy who's like my kids know speak to me and what's it all worth i see it a lot i see it even more where Miami and i see it all the time i see people that again are 60 years old still going out still partying trying to like mask there's some stuff they have inside and they have adult kids who are his either a strange they're just not close with them a lot of times by the way i'm just thinking of people who i know they try to bring the kids into the business and either they try to do it and then it blows up and doesn't work or the kid does want anything to do with the business it's an interesting dynamic as well i've seen more often than not kids want nothing to do with the business and i never understood it because that's all i ever wanted i would love like a dad i love my dad very much i would love a dad who had a business that i could step into my family was not entrepreneurial that's always something that i was like oh my goodness you imagine it's like a uh you know i don't mind a little nepotism let me let me take over the family business i never had that opportunity but the people that i do know that had that opportunity they always seem to go in another direction um one of the first companies that worked for uh got two kids companies we got ten million dollars in revenue ended up selling it to private equity because he had zero because his kids had their interest in taking you know no succession no idea why this like it didn't compute and i don't know what maybe you have thoughts is it is it a broken relationship is it because i mean it's very it's very clear you know talk about making sacrifices to idols yeah so imagine you growing up in your whole life you see your father making a sacrifice to a particular idol and you are the sacrifice like he he's binding you on the altar of this idol it doesn't really foster warm fuzzy feelings toward that my business so for those people that do feel first of all these sort of two cohort to people listen to the show this people that are in that you know they've made their money and there's people that are listening to it that want to make that money and then want to have some career financial success what is the secret in keeping a meaningful relationship who do i want to talk to first the people who did it already in the looking back of the people are in the let's talk to the people who did it who did it already because i think then we'll speak to the earlier stage younger person but they're gonna get some lessons from learning who has already sort of screwed up a couple things so the people who who are already looking back and questioning the priorities that they lived i love that expression said that they were navigating toward the wrong north star yeah because i like that metaphor because they were navigating they weren't just meandering but they were choosing the wrong target so i'm gonna tell you something that could totally be misused and weaponized and by the wrong in if in in the wrong hands um and i'm putting it out here on a public forum so i have no control over how this will be used but i'm praying that nobody will misuse this information um children always want a connection to their parent always even if the parent is abusive even if the parent is sick even if the parent is terrible children want a connection to their parent sometimes the parent is so unhealthy that the child can't have it it's just not practically feasible but in an ideal world the child wishes they had it and the proof is that even a child who's a stranger or a parent for their own safety um has this void they wish they could have that connection because a child's connection to a to a parent is so deep it never goes away doesn't matter how old you are doesn't matter how successful you are doesn't matter what what you've done outside of the family we're all children we never really grow out of that we always want mom and daddy um i don't mean it in infantile way i mean there's just this core bond to the extent that you see people who don't have a relationship with their parent uh even when it's by their own choice because like i'm saying they're protecting themselves from a like a toxic situation it's not just they get over it and lie down and move on there's there's this gaping void when they wish they had that relationship that there's a there's an empty space where that relationship relationship is supposed to be a while i'm saying this i'm saying this because many many times i've had parent who will say to me my kids are all grown they're married um and we don't have a good relationship i regret a lot well is there even hope and i'll tell them there's always hope because a child always wants a relationship with their parent they never get over the need to have a relationship with their now sometimes a parent has proven themselves to be so unreliable and though emotionally dangerous that the child the adult child is just not gonna be able to trust enough to let the relationship be rekindled but there's always hope there's always a possibility because children no matter how grown up they are never get over the need to be bonded to their parents so i don't want to weaponize this i don't want to know what because you understand how somebody like cynically could misuse this information basically if they could hear this and say oh so i can get away with murder the 40-50 years and then when i retire i'll turn around and i'll go to my kids and be like daddy's home like that's this is not that this is not all we want people to do or not but what i am saying is after the fact if it already happened i've seen it firsthand front lines even adult children who are themselves in their 40s 50s 60s and their parents who are seniors will restore the relationship make real amends real apologies not self-serving apologies yet not only can there be a relationship again the craziest thing there's so much healing that comes from it for both of them but more interesting for the children like you'll be shocked how i had one situation a woman told me that her mother a woman who i think she's in her 30s her mother is in her 60s her mother changed her parenting style even though all of her kids have grown up in out of the house and the the daughter says her husband came to her and said wow when your mother changed her relationship with you our marriage got better wow even after you're fully grown yeah but so i think like that parent-child relationship affects so many other things like it was affecting the dynamic and the marriage of the adult child probably didn't even know it of course you didn't know it she only knew it after the fact when oh that was the cause and effect what what happens in that situation like in in that in that kid what's happening when they repair that relationship because the kid listening to this there's going to be some people that are going to buy into this and understand and say yes there will also be some people that are that 30 35 40 year old with a very 40 your parents quite old at that point and they're like i've gone my whole life without a relationship with my parent there's no way i'm going to go back and try to start building that again now i don't see the benefit you know unfortunately the ball's not really in the court of the kid this is something the parent has to do the parent is the provider in the relationship so they have to be the initiator and they have to make the first move so let's say the child has grown up and says you know i would like a relationship with my parent but if the parent doesn't isn't isn't mature enough to do it it's not going to happen so really the it's up to the parent to make that decision that they want it to happen but when they do want it to happen it's so transformative it affects so many other things your relationship with your parents affect your entire world view yeah i've heard from like a doctor he's done a lot of work with trauma research and if you look at a household of a kid growing up and the relationship with the parent and is that house a safe space and as a child feels safe when they come home and is there is there trauma or no trauma that impacts performance it impacts relationships i mean for like years and years and years because what that trauma and i'm not the doctor and i don't have the medical sources to cite this but what he is stating is that that trauma turns into this subconscious almost operating system that's running in your head all the time and then again he has a formality tries to sort of fix that it's what therapists would do as well but he says this can run your entire life he saw with his wife who had some sort of physical autoimmune reaction because of trauma that she experiences a child it's i think it's incredible and also very scary how much that relationship and that home can impact how much impact because it's like you know we have an effect on any human being that we interact with to some extent and we have a responsibility that the interaction should be a positive one but nothing compares to the amount of influence that we have on our children nothing i mean to make or break this human being there's a unique amount of influence that a parent has in a child's life it what in the ironic thing is you know a lot of times when we're talking about people who are navigating toward that wrong north star a lot of times people get rich sort of incidentally they weren't trying to get rich i think that's sometimes the only way to get rich is to not try and get rich yeah sometimes the money is just a metric um they were trying to become influential different types of people but some people they would they just they wanted i don't want to say they wanted power because that has a negative connotation but they wanted influence and the irony is that the most influence you will ever have over a human being is over your children so you set aside that to try to influence other people okay it's ironic it is around i just want to take a second and thank cornbread ham for supporting today's episode now cornbread ham CBD gummies have been this really nice addition to my wellness toolkit i don't use them every day just when i want to win wine after those extra busy weeks but they're perfect for those moments when you want to take the edge off and just find your balance really just shut off from work and what makes them special is how cornbread ham crafts them they only use a flower of usda organic implants that's the best part for the purest most potent experience no fillers no artificial fluff just clean full spectrum goodness in delicious watermelon berry and peach flavor i keep them in my night stand for those moments when i just need a little extra help relaxing and i love how transparent they are too every batch is third party lab tests so you know exactly what you're getting and they put together a special offer for all success story podcast listeners all listeners can save 30 percent off their first order just head to cornbread ham.com slash success and use code success at checkout that's cornbread ham.com slash success code success for 30 percent off your first order of these amazing gummies if people are listening to this and they're just starting families and they don't want to make mistakes yeah what is the what is the i mean is a million different ways probably to to build a meaningful relationship with your kids and to maintain it while still being a high performer because i don't want people to think that they can't achieve what they're looking to achieve in their career and it de facto means to having a broken relationship with your kids it's not a positive it's not a great message but somebody's like okay i want to build a business how do i not screw this i'm going to say something and i'm not trying to convince anyone of my world world to you so if this doesn't resonate with you you know just leave it yeah leave it but our livelihood comes from god god provides for all of us for all of his creatures and ultimately all we do is we hold out a cup and hold out a vessel to receive our blessings we don't create a livelihood we don't create it we think we do it's an illusion our work does not create our livelihood our work is just a vessel within which we receive a livelihood that is coming from on high if a person thinks that they need to work 90 hours a week in order to make whatever it is they're trying to make they need to re-examine their entire world's view correlation does not imply causation just because you see a lot of people working 90 hours a week in who are making money doesn't mean that's how they made their money first of all there's plenty of people hustling and grinding and they're losing money second of all these guys making tons of money but what are they spending it on anything that makes life meaningful so it's like you might have a lot of it but are you actually spending it on healthy good things and there's a lot of illusion around that when we look at other people's lives especially you see the outside you don't see what's really going on the inside we have to really really surrender to the idea that we need to make a natural effort that by natural I mean as opposed to miraculous we need to make a natural effort to succeed and whatever it is we're working on whether it's building a business or it's putting out content writing your novel or whatever it is but we have to we have to put forth a natural amount of effort a plausible amount of effort that we require you can't just say I'm going to work 20 minutes a week and that's I mean it's not realistic but then you know you do the normal amount and then you have to let go and say anything beyond this is idolatrous this is not how it works if god wants me to have this he's going to send it to me and it by me working another hour that's not what's going to create this that's not how it's going to happen so the first thing I would say to people to get them out of that trap where they can actually appreciate their family more is just to decouple that false cause and effect that they may be predicating their entire lives on I think it's a really hard idea for you to grasp because I fall victim to this too even though I believe what you're saying in the day to day you fall victim to you fall victim to well I have a couple hours you know after dinner so why not send a couple more emails and it's creep and it creeps and a creep and the justification is I'll make a few more bucks for my family but then I mean so I don't have kids yet that's god willing that's a word for trying to do soon and and I'm very well aware I mean even you know we're walking outside and I was talking about how you're booking your flights and everything and I say I don't want to travel anymore like I'm purposefully like planting these ideas in my own head and repeating them because I I know that I could speak on more stages I know that I could go to more conferences I know that I could do more more more more more I mean I literally built a podcast studio in my backyard like I'm very much in the mindset of okay I'm prepping my life settle that settle now the family even if that me yes giving up certain opportunities and I think it well yeah but here's the thing that we have to believe that our maker knows what we need to accomplish in this world and that if there's something that was meant for us to accomplish my my maker is gonna find me he knows my address he knows where I am and those opportunities will come to me without me having to run away from myself and where my real life really is and when you free up that time that's when you can start that's like the first step is to understand that there's some sort of you can actually allocate part of your life to your family do you feel like that's like the biggest impediment to building meaningful connections it's time it's not just a time because time allocation like you saying comes from prioritization which comes from our world view so you know even if somebody would I don't know create a schedule where they would allocate a certain amount of time a day if your heart's not in it if your head's not in it it's not really the same thing yet you have to go back to your basic worldview like where do you see yourself as influential where do you see yourself as accomplishing see this is another thing let's get into this a lot of people who are super successful whether it's with building a business or in media or anything that the world respects there are certain things that people respect it's funny I don't know if you agree with this but most of those people are not normal a thousand percent you agree with that a thousand percent okay I said I had somebody who came on here he speak about neurodivergent individuals how most entrepreneurs have some some thing yeah some neurodivergent tendency some more so than others but it's it's in the majority so that means that and I identify with this so I'll speak in the first person that we were never so successful in being normal and the regular things that regular people do just like when the kids go out for recess and they play together and it's just so natural to all of them and then there's that one kid who's like sort of on the outskirts right so is he gonna be the CEO or the serial killer or both or what right but people who are super successful generally are not the people who find it easy to just be one of the guys or one of the gals right um and then that repeats itself in the family it's like I don't know like well where do I fit in here and it's like I feel kind of like this is not my natural place right I go out into such and such setting and I shine and not only do I shine I get to be myself with no apologies because I'm so darn successful at it people are forced to accept it even if it's eccentric right but then I'm with my family and it's like I don't know I'm not really good at this it's like the kid in school says I hate math well you don't hate math you're not good at math and therefore you hate it so it's very easy to say I'm not feeling super successful in this domestic thing I'm actually feeling kind of frustrated and out of place but then I go to my stage and I'm feeling like I'm rocking it well why wouldn't I gravitate toward that it comes natural comes natural right and the problem is that your life is not on that stage your life is in the home with the family that you're building and anything that you're doing that on that stage is supposed to be supplemental it's supposed to be built upon a foundation of what's happening in your core relationships it's not supposed to become your identity this this idea is so prevalent and I and I will give you a shout out because you've actually now you have something that actually helps parents understand how to deal with this phenomenon you built an actual program around this because so many people have come to you I'm assuming with this problem so it's obviously very it's very prevalent well people are the people that come to your favorite in course yeah the guarantee course are we describing the archetype of that person that gravitates towards this course one one demographic one demographic yeah our highly successful people who don't understand why they're not cheating as parents like well there's that rocket science why am I so bad at this right but they're people with enough self-awareness to be like okay but I'm not allowed to discount it just because I'm frustrated with it so that's that's definitely a big demographic that I work with in the in the parenting course um but there there there are a few different pain points the people have when they will come to the parenting course that's one of them so somebody does have to be self-aware enough to want to work on this thing yeah that's sort of like a prerequisite so I understand that um but when you realize that you just aren't good at the domestic, husband, wife, parenting, father, mother, thing uh what would be sort of the first step like I mean you said you're not good uh you don't like it's not that you don't like math you're not good at math well I mean I can start and study and I can watch YouTube videos and the podcast and I can you know I can I can go sit in on a course I don't have academy and learn how to eat algebra fun actly or you could take chase tops parenting course and learn how to become a parent exactly plug um it could but by the way some some of a great deal of it simply is education like you're saying just educate yourself like think about people who are I don't think it's as easy you're making it sound so easy making it sound easy I don't feel like if I feel like I'm feeling as uh as a husband as a wife as a parent and I'm spending uh 75% of my month traveling going on stages and I'm chilling it there that 25% that I'm home I don't think I understand what to do okay but you know what it it I know I'm making it sound easier than it really is but in some ways it is easy because success breeds success once you get a taste for success and think about some makes their first big business deal and then they get a taste for oh I could do that I know what that's like not only I can do it I want to do it right so a lot of it's just about momentum some people have never really felt success in parenting especially men I gotta say like a lot of men will say I the only thing I know how to do is to provide like financially and like by the way many men will go their entire lives being 100% fine with that and saying I don't have to do anything emotionally I'm paying the bills I mean doesn't really work out very well you can ask their kids how they feel about that but um then other men are like bemoaning that like the only thing I know how to provide is financial support why am I not connecting why don't my kids feel bonded to me um but it's a vicious cycle but you can break the vicious cycle and you can get a taste of success and once and especially I gotta say people who are successful in other areas of life if even if they don't have the skill set that's normally applied in regular day-to-day relationships uh or to the contrary that's like that's where they're specifically challenged but they're successful undriven people and they know what it means to get good at something and once they taste success at home it becomes sort of starts to build its own okay it's like a flywheel yeah exactly definitely definitely so to go to the other end of the audience spectrum where you have people that are just starting out so I think what happens and again correct me from wrong but I think what happens is somebody's pursuing something they're very ambitious and then that develops a flywheel and then they that and then they don't look back right and then they don't look back from earlier until they do so for somebody who's starting out what are the words of advice that you don't fall into this trap it's very easy when you're starting to build you can be selfish maybe you don't even have a spouse maybe the only significant people in your family are your parents you maybe don't have a child so all your focus is on this one thing right but here's the thing well I'll ask you let's imagine a guy or real woman in the 30s young already started experiencing success maybe a lot of success let's say somebody 35 and you know already making a few million a year let's say someone doing well how often is that person's identity their self-concept fairly indistinguishable from the success I think I think usually it's wrapped up into it that's all they know they all they know so to me that's the biggest issue is that I have to know who I am apart from this thing that I've learned how to do well first of all these things disappear sometimes you see that where someone just one day whatever they were in a particular industry that falls apart for whatever reason for no fault of their own it wasn't a bad decision they made they were shifts in market and then all of a sudden I didn't lose my money I lost myself I don't know who am I I'm nobody I don't have a self then other times person continues making money and more and more and more and more and more and they wake up one day whether the 40 or 50 or 60 or 70 80 but they wake up one day and they're like what's it all about why did I do any of this so I think it's super important that there's a concept of identity who am I who am I what am I here for now my personal opinion is that that is inherently a metaphysical and spiritual question I don't I know some people are not comfortable those ways of viewing life but once you get into the why questions not the how you know how do you do something that's a science why that's philosophy or religion but why is it that way then you get into the deep ideas of like what what what are we even here for what is the world here for is is there a purpose to life and then what is my specific purpose within all of that and those are questions that if you're really really focused and driven you can sort of distract yourself from having to ask those questions but the lack of an answer to those questions doesn't isn't less profoundly destabilizing the fact that you're not asking the question because you distracted doesn't make the lack of an answer to those questions less destabilizing it's still there in the background and if anything it's because of that void then you double down on being super focused on the distractions especially if you're getting reinforced by success then then you have a crisis you have a crisis because either you you become a victim of your own success and you never have to wake up and ask those questions at a young age or if you do then you have an ask even you either are very successful into the financial metrics and ask yourself those questions when you're like 50 or 60 or if market shift and business goes away and you're 35 then I think you're severely depressed because now you haven't achieved financial success that you said and then also you have no other identity so we have the problem clear clearly identified I can't think of a solution for somebody outside of just warning them that this is their path that they're going on I mean I think this is where I think this is where reflection and closeness to family and even closeness to God I think is important because it forces you to focus on something outside of your business but we are increasingly shelving those relationships and I think that that enables the distraction to a greater degree and what I would say to someone is I'm not trying to tell you that your success so your business or your enterprise is bad it's not bad it's very good but it's not the meaning of your life it can be a tool a very powerful tool for expanding your reach if you already have a meaning for your life and to me that's the greatest tragedy is being able to succeed and make money it actually potentially should enhance your ability to live in accordance with your God-given mission in this world it should create more opportunities more influence for good so it's all the more tragic when not only is it not billing that role but it becomes a distraction from your purpose in life it's like something that has the most potential ends up becoming the most problematic which is always the way that you see this with a lot of people you work with I'm assuming because you have to tell the audience like some of like you were on the phone we're talking yesterday you're talking about some of the people that you I don't know mentor consults help speak with whatever our friends with they deal with like hundreds of millions of dollars like very very from a traditional standpoint outside looking in they're successful yeah and I'm curious about what what problems they do they do you find that it skews more towards their whole identity is wrapped up into their professional persona or are there a select few that have found a way to remove their identity from the wealth they've created there are certain people certainly people who can who have an independent sense of self and those people who know who they are like if I lost it all right now I would still know who I am and what I stand for those are the people whose wealth becomes an incredible tool for amplifying their life's purpose so again it's interesting is there's a story in the Bible about Moses that they were picking a census and the way that they took the census is everybody contributed a coin so sort of like a flat tax and a census all rolled into one it's in the book of Exodus so it describes how Moses wasn't sure what this coin looked like but the commentaries explained that God showed him a coin of fire many of us just thank you okay what's this coin of fire monies like fire fire is energy fire is a force and if we channel it you know we make a combustion engine drive your car you can cook your meal keep your home but if you don't channel it you can burn down the whole city you can burn down the whole world so when a person knows what their purpose is what their life is about and it's a purpose greater than self it's inherently altruistic and I would say spiritual then having money is great because money is like fire it's it's an incredible tool it's it's it's energy and anything that you're doing without money you can do it better and bigger with money but if you don't have a sense of purpose and what am I here for what's my life about then you would be actually much better off being core you'd cause a lot less damage to yourself and others if you wouldn't have this this is powerful energy in your life because if it's not harnessed just starts wreaking havoc one thing I think is interesting because again we actually haven't sort of spoken too too much about like God and spirituality yet compared to what I know you know when you can speak about but I want to I want to one of the topics and I get interesting is again godlessness maybe otherwise set a spiritual poverty something along those lines that I think that a lot of people wrestle with but somebody's listening to you and they're like okay these are he's obviously you know he's speaking to Jews and he's speaking to people that I mean it's all Abrahamic religious but he's speaking to Jews and and that's what he believes in so I'm not for you know the audience and I'm not Jewish I want to understand where God and spirituality fits into my life and and how do I how do I include God or spirituality in the equation because I do feel spiritually poor and and spiritually in poverty even though I could be financially successful I would say let's give it very simple there has to be a purpose greater than you it can't just be you were sent here to have a life for the purpose of having you're supposed to spend that life creating the best possible life it's it's it's there has to be something outside of you it has to be something greater than you and you don't have to fathom what that is in its totality in fact probably by definition you can't but at least you should feel a connection to that and it should entail some mode of service and if you're wealthy by the way there's so many opportunities for service and I don't just mean charity although charity is a huge part of it but remember in this society people respect well so somebody can have a lot of influence as a successful person just by what messages they get behind just how they live their lives your people are watching you they're imitating so when you when you look at it like that I'm here to cause a ripple effect I'm here to improve things for the world that to me is in its most basic form what I mean by a spiritual life you're just doing something for something bigger than yourself yeah and that it in a mode of service I'm not here to receive I'm here to give you mentioned you mentioned this theme before and I'm curious what what you mean by and then we can sort of move on from spirituality because I want to speak about anxiety too so we sort of touched on that at the beginning we didn't go into it but what was the the way that you phrased it you you mentioned that spirituality should be medicine not ritual you touched on that as well yeah yeah I have spoken about that I find that very interesting what does that mean because I don't understand it what does that mean for somebody who's listening who is like okay I'm bought into the concept of why should be serving somebody bigger than myself I get that but this is an interesting point I think yeah there was a clip I actually didn't put it out I saw the clip it was a podcast that I recorded actually not that far from here Miami area with with Ellie Nash who has the insert of podcast so we were speaking about spirituality and he I think he said something like so is spirituality the medicine and I said no no it's not the medicine it's the health and what I meant is spirituality is not a means to an end it is the end it's not like I'm using it in order to accomplish something else to the contrary everything else in my life when it's aligned will bring me to a natural state of integration which I call spiritual wellness right so a lot of times people they turn spirituality into a a tool just like you know anything else you would you would buy some software well even you said you don't like the the ritual component you're not you're not doing this for ritual you're doing it I think you you said some some version of that when we first started speaking he said like I think I said why did you get more religious because you remember this yeah there's some people find comfort and ritual yeah and I'm not denigrating ritual by the way as by the way you know that before we even started recording I told you by the way when I took off from LaGuardia it was dark it was so early in the morning it was dark I couldn't see my morning prayers and when I landed the Miami there were no more places where I could pray with a with a minion with a quorum so I actually people don't realize but I prayed my morning prayers right here am I the first person by the way to pray their morning prayers in this studio do you know I was like you know I was like is he is he blessing our house I'm like I don't mind yes yes it has a blessing to have so definitely I do have ritual in my life you know there's morning prayers and afternoon prayers and evening prayers um but I guess what I'm saying is it's not a tool don't turn it into some some performance enhancing tool to improve your life it is your life what I'm trying to say is don't just turn your spirituality whatever you call your spiritual don't turn that just into another thing that is ultimately only there to bolster and reinforce me because I see people that do that these sit people that use religion as a cross I see people that use religion as a a way to network religion as a way to build business I mean there's a lot of in my opinion and correct ways to use religion absolutely absolutely absolutely and and and the common denominator of the misuse of faith religion spiritually is that it becomes self-serving and inherently spirituality is about surrender to something greater than myself so it's the opposite of self-serving I'm not serving me I'm surrendering I'm getting out of that I'm trying to be of service to someone to something else so religion faith spirituality yeah a lot of times people use it to enhance their lives it's not there to enhance your life it's not there to enhance your life it's there to get you to give you the opportunity to take finally why do you want to enhance your life why do you want to be more of yourself that's comfortable you think that becoming a bigger and bigger self that's what we're put here for it's about becoming less and less of myself in the sense of surrendering to something bigger and becoming part of that self-transcendence as opposed to self-enhancment self-enhancment it just becomes this vicious cycle it's an addiction self-enhancment I see a lot of it and not even with religion this self-improved way that could be anything people consume this business yeah old plunges retreats so whatever it is but itself enhancement and it becomes this this hamster wheel when it's healthy it's self-transcendence and helps you to get over yourself helps you to to forget about yourself in a healthy way as opposed to to distractions which are also a way of forgetting about ourselves but that's um temporarily distracting ourselves it doesn't really bring you a place greater than self it's just you you're still sitting where you're sitting you're just watching an interesting movie so you're not thinking about it and that's the that's the pain killer that's a temporary medicine versus hell so there's always got to be something bigger than me every every account every accomplishment on a personal level has to be examined it was in this context of what purpose does this serve outside of myself outside of just my own personal life it's maddening to have the only goal of your life to be for the enhancement of your life it's exhausting but I think that's the majority of people yeah where does you mentioned at the beginning again you see anxiety plague a lot of people yeah yeah is there a through line between anxiety and the enhancement of oneself is that too far of a stretch or is there a through line there oh for sure self-transcendence is the antidote to self-obsession the more focused on self we are the more uncomfortable we are you think about when you're lost in in a good way in like that flow state where you're not even particularly aware of yourself where do I end and the activity that I'm engaged in you know begins and it's just you you lose yourself in a good way um think about that and how much peace how much serenity it's associated with that as opposed to being in your head where you're monitoring you know is the chair comfortable is that it is the air too warm is it too cool is and are people smiling at me are they frowning at me lock in the room it's like who should I sit next to that the most influential person to sit next to all of that internal talk that that self-obsession of trying to get get it just right Goldilocks right just right then I'll make a person very anxious it's very stressful as opposed to surrendering and just showing up and saying you know God has put me in this place right now it must be the right place like why would I think about any plate like right now I'm sitting here with you I guess theory there are other places I could be there are other people I could be sitting with but that's not where God put me right now I'm here with you and the more I can just be immersed in what's happening here as something greater than me you know it's not my agenda it's not me coming here to sound smart on your podcast it's like I'm I'm trying to just have not just not have an experience but just be part of an experience um and the more that I'm able to do that the more relaxed I am and if I go into my head and I start thinking well hold on a second I want to make sure to say this line because I think that's awful clever and I'll make sure that I don't make a good clip and you know then then that's where the stress sets in so the absolute self-transcendence is the antidote to self-obsession self-obsession is the root of anxiety I just want to take a second and thank fresh books for supporting today's episode now there are three numbers that you have to know 30 million 60 billion 192 hours what it is me over 30 million people have used fresh books over 60 million inboxes have been paid through fresh books and over 102 hours have been saved annually using fresh books all in one account if you're an entrepreneur a freelancer a solo printer if you are tired of chasing payments and drowning in receipts fresh books is here to make your 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promotions for listeners of success story that is freshbooks.com slash pricing dash offer I just want to take a quick break and thank the HubSpot podcast network for supporting success story for the past two years now the HubSpot podcast network has other incredible podcasts like my first million now if you are an entrepreneur or you are ready to turn your entrepreneurial dreams into millions you have to listen to my first million it's a show that is revolutionizing business podcasting it's hosted by Sam par Sean perry this is a HubSpot podcast network original it brings you unfiltered conversations with self-made millionaires who actually tell you how they did it if you want to learn how Alex from mosey built his fitness empire or how Sophia Amaruso turned nasty girl into a fashion phenomenon these aren't just success stories they're the blueprints for your own journey to the top each episode breaks down the exact strategies and hidden opportunities that you can use right now don't just dream about your first million learn how to make it listen to my first million wherever you get your podcasts today's episode is brought to you by Taylor brands now here's a wild stat 60% of Americans dream about starting their own business but less than 20% actually take the plunge now why is that let's face it building a business feels overwhelming but what if I told you there's a way to make it simple this is where Taylor brands comes in your complete business building companion they've turned the intimidating process of starting a business into something you can actually handle if you need an LLC done in minutes if you're trying to protect your personal assets if got you covered the whole key up with everything from legal documents to licenses to permits even a personalized business plan plus their business coaching program will guide you through your crucial first 100 days and the best part is you get all the tools you need to build your brand manager and voices handle your bookkeeping basically everything you need to launch with confidence and there's an exclusive deal for all success story podcast listeners you get 35% off when you visit Taylor brands dot com slash podcast 35 don't let your business dreams stay dreams get started today with Taylor brands now how do you balance that thought with performance because at the end of the day we still have to perform yeah yeah and when you say perform you mean to no no not put on a mask I mean to results results yes right you have to show something yet to show something so I could sit here I could have you know five or six drinks and I could be very relaxed the podcasts would probably or maybe it would be better I don't know right see I think this is one of the greatness understandings like I was saying before about people feel like they're their output is linked to their success and they turn that into an idol so similarly I this may be a bridge too far from many people but I don't think we have to be so obsessed with performance with with by for pharmacy I don't mean putting on a mask I mean by showing results when you're doing what you do when you're doing what you're naturally good at and enjoying it and losing yourself in it and doing it for a purpose that's ultimately greater than yourself awesome results are natural it's almost effortless I can tell you my own life that there are things that I toil I work so hard on and either it I barely accomplished them or I didn't even accomplished them and there are other things that I was just having a good time and it was wildly successful so I think we have this misconception that there has to be stress and strain in order to be serious about accomplishing and a lot of people believe that I try to not believe it but I'm lying to myself because I think that I never believe it if you're doing what you're gifted at now I by the way I'm a strong believer in when I spoke before about you have to know yourself one of the things I believe in is knowing your strengths and leaning into them I've spoken about I said find out who you are and do that on purpose if you're doing what you're gifted at it really shouldn't be stressful now when we're trying to be something we're not because for whatever reason we think that that image is a desirable a lot of times it happens when we're very young we see a certain image of success or what we in an immature state of mind consider to be successful and then we like make this contract with ourselves when we're like five years old and you wake up and you're 30 you're like am I still trying to satisfy five years old's idea of success I don't even like this this is not even me right happens all the time but if you really doing what you gifted at you can accomplish without straining by the way this is a total aside it might seem like a non-sequitur but I'm a big believer in hiring experts and paying them disproportionately for their time what I mean is this I don't care if you took five minutes to write that ad copy whatever it is I want the guy who when he's doing that job he's in his most natural state like that's his place of natural relaxed self and I don't care if he's able to and by the way a lot of people have imposter syndrome about it they'll be like but I don't even work at it now it took me five minutes yeah but I can have another team spend five hours or five days on it don't never be as inspired as what's coming out of you so I'm a big believer in finding people who are really gifted at something and just like let them do it let them shine let them flow and I'm a big believer in doing that for ourselves and if there's something that I'm not good at delegate that hire someone to do that like really if you want to go to the next level you should only be doing the things that you do almost effortlessly it's counterintuitive because we think there's got to be the grind but the truth is you want to go to the next level your genius is going to come out effortlessly and if there's things that are hard for you hire the person who it's not hard for how do you find those things well one problem is that we spend a lot of time trying to be something for other people that we lose touch with those things like it should be the most natural thing in the world to know what my gifts are but we spend so much effort trying to put up this avatar that we use touch with it I think well I have a theory about this actually when you hear my theory about this I love to this is a theory I have when you're young and whatever dysfunction there was in your home you want to make yourself feel safe and so you pick something that works so one kid learns how to become invisible another kid learns how to fight you know the one screams at the parents another kid learns to be the comedian defuse everything crack a joke you know another person learns to be the philosopher he intellectualizes it another kid learns to be the diplomat tries to make peace and then that becomes your thing because that's what you learned how to do when you're five six years old and you were just trying to cope with with this function of your family you grew up in and you become really really good at that thing like awesome at that thing the problem is that that thing that you're the best at is also you're undoing because it's in obstacle to intimate relationships because if your go-to let's say is crack the joke that's what work when I was a kid and then you're trying to have an intimate relationship we're trying to be genuine but anytime there's any amount of stress your go-to thing is crack the joke and then the person is trying to get close to you will be like can you not crack a joke and the answer is kind of like well no I can't not crack a joke like this is if I'm to be honest like if I don't have this tool then I'm terrified because then I'm back as a little kid scared that the world's blowing up and I don't know how to feel safe so those things which become our greatest strengths become our greatest undoing now a lot of times people will find success with that thing they'll monetize it they'll turn it into an image they'll turn it into a brand and then there's a lot of reinforcement for and then it's almost impossible to walk away from almost impossible even if it will destroy all of your real relationships it's almost impossible to walk away from because you're just getting so much reinforcement for it I see people like this all the time about a celebrities by the way like you know the person with the most seemingly extroverted personality and in real life is completely lonely so what do you do you come to a point where you're like okay because I actually just have one one more thought before you keep going I think that what actually ends up happening I love that theory I think it's probably very accurate but I think what actually happens this makes a lot of sense is you actually start to believe that you believe that's the thing that you actually should be doing because you get all this reinforcement so now you you are not even listening to your subconscious anymore you're conscious of saying yes that's you correct right there's a lot of things you got to online there right okay so then let's take all blows up hit bottom and now you basically say you know what I have no idea who I am I have no idea who I am and by the way that's the most profoundly spiritual experience you can have is when you hit bottom and you say everything that I developed and ordered to succeed in life has ruined my life and now I'm free fallen I'm letting go of it all and if if I think I be I establish my brand I'm being the smartest guy in the room I'm dropping that I'm dropping that I'm not doing that I know that was my go-to thing I know that was the thing that I did as a bid for security I can't do it anymore I'm letting go of that what am I now I don't know what I'm I don't know I don't know I don't have a sense of self I'm what I'm I'm clay in the hands of of the potter at this point I'm just at that point of just surrender of like just use me God I don't know what I am I'm here to show up with no agenda with no proclivities with no with absolutely no opinion I'm just showing up and then what happens if you can reach this point if he can reach this point is that God will give you back those skills but it'll be on his terms and you'll discover that that thing that you spent a lifetime perfecting you really are good at it and you really ought to be using it but no longer as a tool to serve yourself you no longer serve yourself because you've surrendered you've already accepted God do whatever you want with me but you happen to also be good at that thing but now instead of using it because you have to because you feel you have no choice almost like a compulsion now you get to use it with free choice you get to say you know what I happen to know how to do such and such let me use this for a cause greater than myself that's where the your real life begins so to speak is when you go back to all the stuff that you were using as a tool for your own safety and security you've given that up because you say my safety and security comes from the fact that I'm surrendered to a power greater than myself I'm no longer trying to make a bid for my own safety and security oh but I have these talents I have these skills now let me just use them for the greater good and that's where your second life so to speak your real life really begins where you can go back and use these skills but without them using you without becoming a slave to them without idolizing them I was going to ask do you feel it makes a lot of sense that's an incredible journey that somebody put in theory go on but you feel like may people ever go on that journey very few people will go on this journey let alone complete it but those who do will find themselves their true selves look I'm sitting here I'm talking to you I basically thank God I guess I'm lucky that I don't have a normal nine to five job I don't have to do anything that I don't like doing to make a living I basically just get to talk and say cool thing it's just how to do the same thing okay so then you know what I'm talking so tell me if you relate to it it does it does relate to me I was good at talking since I was a little kid but I did it because it was my way of feeling safe because when the kids were behaving in ways that confused me and I didn't understand why I was not fitting in or why something was happening there people were like jockeying for social position and I didn't know how to secure my position and the only tool I had was to speak and to say something witty or profound and then the only way that I found of getting notice of getting approval was again pearls of wisdom that's what gets it right and that becomes an addiction and then it becomes a false self and it divorces you you from your true self and it becomes your undoing and then you have to walk away from it and say I will never do this again if this is not what God wants for me and then what happens on the other side of that God is like let him glad to you surrender that by the way you do know how to talk so I would like you to talk but not for yourself anymore I want you to talk for me and I have never really thought about my own journey that to that degree I mean I'm fortunate that I do this for a living now but I'm trying to think I guess I use talking to make money and sales you know marketing that you talk to make money and then there was a point where I didn't have to do it anymore but then I started to enjoy it but it wasn't forced so when I started the podcast it was not forced it was it was just fun maybe I'm simplifying your thought too much I don't mean to do that no you can never simplify too much if something is true then it should I use this force myself to be a good not just speaker but question asker because that's what made me money right that's what happens in sales you ask enough questions you get to the end result you get to the the root of the when did you learn how to ask questions I've always been very curious yeah where did that come from I don't know where that came from I don't know far back as you can remember yeah when did you discover tell me about an early memory where you discovered hey if you keep asking people questions you get somewhere it was probably to get what I wanted out of my parents how old were you six seven as young as I can possibly remember because when they said no to me I would ask a million questions to try and uncover the logic in them saying no to the point where they cave then and it's probably a mega it's it's not a great it is what it is it's not but but it's a skill that you discovered in trying to negotiate the situation in your family of origin as a child and then you realized that you could expand that and you could do it with other people and in other situations and I found that actually the more questions I asked it was strange to me but people always said that I had I seemed very compelling I had a lot of influence but I never felt like I was imposing my thoughts on people I felt like I was always asking and understanding them better so that I could understand what they want out of me and then I would deliver that because coupled with the question asking I think I was always a yes person I was a people pleasing person I always I always felt like I had to please people probably also coming back to like my parents and as a kid so I always wanted what I wanted but I never wanted to disappoint them at the same time anyway so I just and then it morphed into a career okay so you realized you had this skill and you realized that it has a lot of different applications which can be monetized and you did it and did it well and we're well compensated very much so and it got to a point where you I don't know if you can try to remember the time where it became the at what point was this skill the hardest would it have been the hardest to walk away from my entire professional life here entirely yeah I mean there wasn't a single point it was like that's how you make money right so now I would have had to in my mind so it's that free choice no you're stuck yeah I'm like I'm yes it's golden handcuffs with this skill the hand yeah right so that's when it becomes the person and now it leads over to your personal life like when do I turn it off I don't think I ever turn it off so I never I literally never turn it off in fact in fact it's gotten to the point like I mean like I don't think there's always a clear point of delineation either so now in my work I'm fortunate that I can do this for a living and I didn't have to worry about money when I started the podcast so I did do this for fun but even in my like social interactions like when I'm going on people are gonna listen to oh my god I bet Scott's not fun to go out with but stay with me um like I don't like small talk I can't stand small talk so when I go out I like to ask questions and you get questions deep questions doesn't matter if I'm sober going out for a drink I hate small talk how's the weather I can't stand talking about the weather I can't stand it and and a lot of people are just happy with having small talk and casual conversation to me the second it's small talk casual conversation I'll pull up my phone I'll be more I I don't want to be part of this anymore and the people that I enjoy spending time with other people that don't mind going deep on topic what's the meaning of life back okay maybe not always that deep I want you to map this out how you went from this skill that you discovered as a child when you're abadding your parents which um then you started to realize had other applications then you realized make it made a lot of money then became golden handcuffs that you could not walk away from it was no longer free will I mean I still technically have a walk away from it but you're telling me you've come to a point now where there is a certain amount of joy and play a lot a lot of a lot of joy and play in what I do so I want to map that out for people because you know this journey you're describing well I described it and I described it then you called it you labeled it you called it a journey and I said very few people do it sounds like you've done it at least in park in a way I don't want to ever like not all what's in progress but I'm saying this thing this thing that you do we all have that thing that we do right you could have remained in the golden handcuffs mode for the rest of your life where it becomes a compulsion and you literally can't walk away from it because the stakes are too high and and also because it becomes your identity and like who would you be without it and so you're stuck there's no joy there's no play it's just slavery and you came to a point now where you're able to do this thing that you do but you do it without compulsion right let's map that because I'll tell you so I know the pattern because I've seen it every time but let me tell you why I want to hear if your story fits the pattern then I go so the reason why okay so the reason why I chose to do this for a living it makes it makes a little bit of money with ads and whatnot I mean it's not I could have gone and tried to build another company or gone to work and I could have done that but the reason why I didn't want to do that and I wanted to focus on doing something that had a little bit more joy attached to it was because in my mind this also led to good lifestyle where I can now spend more time with my family so I saw a lot of negatives associated with using this skill in like the way that I've done it for the past 15 years I saw a lot of negatives associated with that and in my mind I said the next dollar or the next comma in the bank account is not worth the sacrifice based on what my priorities are and that's why I decided to do this for fun because I wanted to focus on something that was more meaningful to me than the next again next comma next x million dollars so you made a deliberate decision a little bit yeah yeah very much so I think that if people are like listening to your story and are inspired by which I think by the way many people will be because this is a great thing most people wish they could be doing something they enjoy and you are you doing what you enjoy so I just want to describe what it is that this journey entails the thing the very same thing that was your adaptation as a child was your coping mechanism defense mechanism and then became your identity and could have become a literal enslavement you were able to jump tracks and bring that thing with you and use it for something bigger than you meaning this vision you have of what a truly meaningful life is and I think that this is a really important message because all of us have that thing or maybe sometimes more than one thing but at least a thing that if we continue to do it as a compulsion if we do it as a defense mechanism it rules us but if we can surrender to a greater vision a higher a more lofty more noble idea of what life is about and say no it's not about another comment in the bank account like you what you call it what we discover is that that thing has noble uses that will not only make us happy but will make the world a better place I believe I believe I'm very fortunate because I think that I'm living like you mentioned what most people would want in their life is to do something they find fun and enjoyable but also I do believe that almost everybody on this earth if they had the means to would enjoy teaching their lived experience and other people's lived experiences to people that are struggling I think that humans are genuinely altruistic and I mean I'm trying to do it at scale with the podcast because I wish that there were shows like this in conversations like this when I was young you know whatever 1920 and I could listen to you and sort of get a better and there probably was it just within clocked into them but that's really why I wanted to do it I've always loved teaching I've always loved helping out people my first job ever ever was coaching kids at tennis like yeah so I've always enjoyed sort of giving back and that's where and then you I don't know if I fit the the first description you said was when everything falls apart and then you give up and then yeah it sounds like you didn't have to have such a big crush I did have a huge crisis for this you mentioned I jumped try to decision yeah you made a choice now I don't know why I did that you're lucky most people don't most people everything falls apart and then they have they begin that second life but the the fact that you were able to do it as a calculated choice and to say you know what I'm on a certain track that's not the track I want to be on I think because I've been over exposed to people that have gone down you learned from other people's mistakes you've seen enough of those tragedies so it was crisis it just wasn't your own crisis which means you're very lucky because you don't have to go throughout yourself but let me ask you a question you've seen people who were super successful and miserable a lot question for you from the people or have you seen people who came through that crisis came out the other side and found meaning yes and I know people that are going through it right now people who are going through that transition sold companies for hundreds of millions of dollars and are going through it right now okay so I would say to those people that what you will discover on the other side of the crisis is in some ways not all that different than the you that you're abandoning and as much as you will have the same skills you'll just be free to use them for something greater there's the I'll tell you a story a little story to a little story parable there's a guy driving in the car he's miserable he hates his life and he's not religious but he at that moment he utters a prayer and he says God I hate my life driving on the interstates and God I hate my life want a new life all of a sudden in the carry here's the voice of God God says you're in luck I've got a new life for you for a very reasonable price guy says what's the price God says how much you got on you he said 20 bucks on God says oh perfect the price of your new life is $20 back says God I'm giving you the $20 you see the gas is going low in the car I'm gonna have to put gas in the car soon if I put if I give you the $20 I'm not gonna have money or gas for the car God says oh you know the car that's right yeah price for your new life just went up at $20 in your car says if I give you my car how many how am I gonna get to work in the morning God says oh you have a job gainfully employed price for your new life as I want your $20 I want your car I want your job this doesn't give you my job how am I gonna pay the mortgage oh homeowner yeah okay price for your new life now that's going up to $20 you car your job in your house says I give you my house where my wife and children are gonna live life and children very good price for your new life is $20 your car your job your house your wife your kids the guy at this point realizes he better shut up because every time he speaks price is going up so God says all right I'm about to give you a new life but before I do that I want to know if you can do something for me you guys just mm-hmm he doesn't want to speak he's ready to suit mm-hmm God says okay see this $20 not your $20 my $20 God says but I want you to spend it but because it's not yours you don't buy what you want you buy what I want can you do that you guys just mm-hmm God says you see this car you stuff a car just like this you don't know where it's my car God says but I want you to drive but because it's not your car you only drive it where I want to go you see this job God says not your job it's my job you show up every day there and you do business the way that I want business but see this house is that your house God says my house God says wait I want you to live in it and I want you to treat it like that's God you see this wife and children they're not your wife and children God says they're my wife and children I want you to treat them that way can you do this for me the guy says mm-hmm God says great then here's your $20 here's your car here good job here's your house here's your wife and here's your new life what's the difference between the old life and the new life it's the same stuff it's just the question of how you're using it the old life it's mine I was using it for me and I was caught in that loop the new life is same stuff but I'm free now it's not mine it's all part of service it's all part of the bigger picture it's all part of what I can give back this podcast is brought to you and part by stash are you still putting off saving and investing because you'll get to it 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investment advisor investing involves risks and investments may lose value offer a subject to tease and seize same stock you know we started this conversation we started this conversation speaking about anxiety and all of a sudden when you frame it the way you frame it I think this all is a lot of the anxiety problem because you're not concerned about self anymore that was a very that's a very long answer to why is there so much anxiety it's because of self-serving so when we have opportunities such as material resources or human resources like good network or good name a good brand good reputation we can become enslaved to those things and live in fear of losing those things and live as slaves to the grind of maintaining those things or we could say none of that stuff belongs to me anyway I'm just a steward how can I use as long as I have access to those things how can I use them to accomplish something bigger than me you mentioned something about shifting the perspective of is hopefully this will resonate it's a little bit of a I guess I mean all these conversations have been relatively deep but this is an interesting thought so you mentioned how ownership moves from you owning all these things and serving yourself to to God really owning these things and these are just things that you really have on lease from God and you're meant to serve a higher purpose um where does where does God fit into someone's life and what I mean by that is when you are especially in a family unit where does God fit into the relationship between your wife and your children who do you who do you serve first is it God or do you serve your wife first or do you serve your kids first because that's also I've heard people confused about this because some people claim they're being holy when they're using God as their excuse from mistreating other people so you see a lot of times where let's say a family relationship will suffer and it's because somebody is claiming the moral high ground well you know it's a holy work God told me that I have you know they have to do this and what do you say to someone like that God told me you know when somebody and once they're invoking the God card there's very little you can tell them to talk them down and I say in the context of families I think this is probably the I mean it can be in context of business too where people say oh God told me to do this or do that to that first and I don't literally mean someone saying the voice of God not I understand where you're saying but more like moral high ground of well this is what this is the this is the right thing and you know it's so such a misappropriation of whole concept of having an absolute value system of having an unmovable sense of right and wrong it's not a person has a real sense of morality it is not supposed to be more rigid they're supposed to be more flexible when you're working for God when you're a steward or you're in a mode of service then sacrifice comes easily so the holiest person is the person who's the most flexible not the person who's breaking others we want to be tough be tough with yourself the exacting from yourself but real spirituality as opposed to feigned spirituality for the purposes of self-aggrandizement is about tolerance you see people who used their moral position to to ostracize them i mean even in uh see it in every doesn't matter which religion any very religious group and they have a family member or a community member that's not as religious it's not a fun relationship right and then declaim the moral high ground but the reality is it's just coming from fear you're afraid somebody is challenging the power structures and therefore you know you bring down uh bring down pressure on them to try to get them to conform or to squeeze them out because you're afraid they're going to be stabilized things so the story is all this time so and that gives people a faith a bad rap yeah so what i would say is like if you're listening to this now and you are becoming more spiritually aware more spiritually conscious you are trying to live a more god centered life i would say one barometer that you can use to see if you're truly growing your spirituality is if your relationships with other people are becoming if your retreatment of them is becoming more compassionate not less yes everyone's got a story please got a story and the more you can live from a god centered place where we're all put here for a purpose we all have a unique and wondrous and wonderful story the more you can look at people that way i think the more space you have in your mind for them as opposed to like you don't fit into the reality and make me uncomfortable your existence makes me uncomfortable yeah i've always thought about that i think that's one of the the the ranking of god in your life and where where god fits and how that affects your relationship with others that's always been interesting to me i think that's something because you have we have two opposites into the spectrum that we've spoken about we have people that have no spirituality or spirituality involved version there's a lot of godlessness and there's people that include god but then almost to the detriment of the relationships with other people we're to the detriment or true that is too to the detriment of and i think that i don't know why i'm not i'm not smart enough to know why we always default to extremes maybe you have experiences so why we always default to extremes but i just want to leave people um after this conversation at least with some sort of map or guide for how to operate with spirituality but in the right in the right way kind of like what you are alluding to the barometer for whether or not you're adopting spirituality properly it's interesting it's adopting spirituality properly yeah 100% is the right way in a wrong way probably many wrong ways it's it's always dangerous to have the moral eye ground because with the human tendency the human tendency is to to weaponize that and the once you're using it to feel superior to others definitely you don't have it lost it already i've noticed it sometimes when people commit their life to a new thing we can talk about average it doesn't really know it's definitely not always religion right so you ever seen somebody who's worked out for the first time yeah uh and they they go back to the gym they go on all these uh diaprograms they're whatever they're ozampic or whatever and they lose weight my goodness it they become insufferable for correct right they yeah somebody who used to be really heavy let's say that's the example you and they lost a lot of weight yet they are more likely to be the guy come over and say to you you need to lose weight excuse me like you coming i know that you don't have to point that out to me like well this is so inappropriate right but yeah they feel they have this um this license now and you know let's let's talk about again the idea of your thing your thing whatever it is that thing that you do ultimately is meant to be used for service there's a thin line between let's say your thing is you were really bad at something and then you mastered it and you had a breakthrough okay so you were really unhealthy and then you became healthy or you were really bad with money and then you became really good with money whatever it is it's a very thin line between coming back with a vengeance and then just sort of like condemning everyone else who's not yet good at that or coming back as a teacher and saying i know the pain i'm no better than you i'm just further along in the process than you know this is a thin line between those two but the experience of it is night and day guy who comes to you and because i had a problem and i fixed it and instead of feeling grateful he feels entitled now to have the the loudest voice about that issue nobody wants to be coached by that person but the guy who comes to you and says dude you're not so bad i was much worse and there but for the grace of god go i i could i could still be much worse i'm blessed i'm really lucky and i can share with you some of the things that happened for me and maybe they can happen for you like wow everyone wants to be coached by that guy what else you want to talk about i got one more thing i didn't know if you i got one more no i didn't know if you had another thought on that that's not just here the last thing that i thought was very interesting was the ideas of legacy of mortality especially for people that are trying to build a legacy it's a useful thing to build towards or this a waste of time then i guess legacy i tied into mortality because ultimately it's about thinking about what happens after you die should you be thinking about what happens after you die or should you be using your mortality as a tool almost through a stoic philosophy to accomplish as much in this lifetime as you possibly can and i really concern yourself about like what happens after you die what do y'all have said some people try to achieve immortality through their work i would like to achieve a immortality through not dying that's good yeah um the answer to this question is the same as everything else who's been well i using it to serve self or to serve something greater than yourself because listen there are people who their legacy is just one more self-serving project it's their ultimate and final self-serving project i'm gonna put my name on that hospital right on that university or on that aquarium and it's just one more bid for self-enhancment and i guess you're giving money to a good cause other people are benefiting from it so i guess it's not all negative but you think that that satisfies your soul and heaven i don't think so if it's not satisfying to live that way during your lifetime it's not satisfying to live that way after your lifetime forget about legacy think about service what is going to accomplish something that will continue to to read dividends after you're gone think about it very simple in terms of ripple effect expanding the influence maximizing or amplifying the effect put your name on it don't put your name on it okay what difference does it make that's not legacy legacy is not your name is on something now sometimes it's good to put your name on something because it encourages other people to give because it arouses a little that's a different that's a competition yeah that's some by the way i've told donors in situations where people wanted to be anonymous and sometimes they want to be anonymous for very legitimate reasons but that's also like the highest form of maturity yeah the minorities eight levels of of giving right with a giver in the recipient don't know each other right so and that's by the way when you're talking about let's say a pauper a poor person who let's say is having their food paid for by somebody so it's better that the giver in the recipient don't know each other but let's say you're you're funding an organization okay where there's no there's no embarrassment in recipient receiving from you but there's a certain humility in being anonymous however however and i've told donors this in the past i'm telling you if i put your name on this donation if we put your name i know there's another guy who's going to give so your money your x amount your hundred thousand is really going to effectively be two hundred thousand if so and so i was going to see it and not want to be left out and in that case take the hit for the team and put your name on it because it's going to end up bringing in more money for the cause but yeah it's not about your name being on something and people knowing that it's you doesn't matter if people know that it's you if you want legacy then figure out how to set something up that's going to be i'll call it passive income where you can die and it's still doing good you don't have to run it that's legacy so the more opportunities you have the more resources you have access to the easier it is to set that up if you're strategic about you know what's funny by the way i have dealt with two types of philanthropists and they're about equally distributed about half and half there are philanthropists who give charity with the same business acumen as they make money they're very prudent how they invest their charity and then like another whole half of philanthropists who it almost seems like once they're not in the business mode once they're in charity mode they're like at the roulette table it's in in vegas it's like such wild abandon irresponsible no accounting it's bizarre it's strange that if you made that money you'd think you'd have the same due diligence for you for you to invest it or it's almost like that's where they just splurge it irresponsibly yeah and and they don't see results from it they can be proud of me it seems like common sense that you would adopt the same level of scrutiny yeah common sense is in common so whatever I mean I have a theory about a lot of things but I would encourage people that if you do have a foundation if you have if you're in a position to be strategic about your giving that you should think about the ripple effect think about something that is going to be here forever not just fly by night I think that's fair I guess that sort of ties into the second part I mentioned mortality and and stoic philosophy which is really just understanding that at some point you're going to die but it still ties back to the same fundamental principles you're talking about I mean yes it's important to accomplish the things that you want to accomplish but if you're doing them for the right reason then I think that'll just add another layer of motivation onto them look you don't need more money than you need and you don't need more time here on this earth we didn't even talk about that about needing more money than you need and to talk about it and it was a conversation actually that came up the other day with somebody's worth just a little bit shy five five five hundred million dollars and he was saying how he doesn't understand well why people want to become billionaires and how most of the billionaires that he knows are all very unhappy people right because the guys worth half a billion and if he wanted to it's very reasonable and you could make that as goal but he decided not to I decided to because well I don't want to speak on his behalf okay I love it but from the story that he told me um he wasn't Israel on October 7 and uh and I can't remember which part of Israel but it was a part that it did it did normally have rockets flying over and there was like rockets and the iron dome was exploding the rockets right above this condo and his wife was like this we don't need to be in this part oh she's like Israel but also let's focus on family and he had his daughter there as well and they just moved to adventure we just moved to Miami and he said like I moved to Miami and I just I could have been in a position to get into something that would have made me a billionaire in about five years and he's like I just made the decision that I don't want to be traveling anymore it's like he didn't feel safe as a Jew going all over uh the world like he used to and he doesn't need it and he has family as kids and he's like you know what I just want to be happy it takes a lot of guts yeah but he also sees all of his billionaire friends because that's who he works with and they're not happy and he sees a lot of people that are making sixty seven thousand dollars a year that are exceptionally happy he's a smart guy puts two and two together right yeah so you know we talk about that thing that you do so I learned how to be eloquent talk my way into things talk my way out of things and you you have a similar thing you know the questions the probing questions um and then like I said other people learn how to be bullied and other people learn how to be comedians other people learn how to be peacemakers um some people discover that that thing they do plugs in very well to make him tons and tons of money so the question of how much money is enough is not the real question because it's not about the money it's not about how much money it's about this is my thing I can't stop doing my thing so it's a it's a it's a misnomer to even assume that there's an amount that would it that would constitute success because it's not about success it has the look of achieving success but it actually is not it's about a compulsion how can I step away from this what will I be who will I be if I'm not doing this thing and what feelings will I suddenly start feeling when I'm not distracted from my own feelings by constantly doing this so somebody is not comfortable with themselves there's no amount of money you could achieve that allows you to step back it's like you're on that hamster wheel and it's going too fast and you cannot get off so this goes back to where we started which is we need a sense of self it's greater than just on here in this life to enhance my life there has to be a self concept it's tied to something greater than me you've gone through a lot um what would be uh an idea that I didn't ask you about that's something that you're struggling with right now something that is sort of top of mind for you that we didn't go into biggest thing I'm dealing with right now I've been dealing with my whole life but becoming more and more aware how important it is to me and finding out it's important to others as well is um this whole weird condition of embodiment that the soul existed long before you were born it will exist after you pass and we're having this was that we're not human beings having a spiritual experience we are spiritual beings having a human experience that we're having this embodiment experience and for many of us it is inherently traumatizing to be a spiritual being confined to a physical container is for most people it's not deeply disturbing but there are certain sense of souls for whom it is deeply disturbing I think that some people just don't think about it right or they get so deeply immersed in distraction that they can avoid it they can hit the can down the road so to speak so yeah I've been thinking a lot about this about what is the soul in this world in a body for at all and there's a purpose there's a greater purpose we were not sent to this world to torture us and but conversely we weren't just sent to this world in order to eat ice cream and have a good time like that can't be what it's all about we were sent to the world for our purpose greater than ourselves which is to make the world a better place to make this physical plane the the most refined the most lofty most holy plane of reality to make the physical world holier than heaven and we have the ability to have a part in bringing that about and it's all by doing things that refine the embodiment experience so specifically specifically one of the things that helps to integrate the soul in the body is showing up in physical places we could have done this through zoom but we're sitting in the same physical location we lost a lot of that after the COVID lockdown it's very important to show up to bring your body nowadays it's easy to face time people um easy to send the text but you're in a body for a reason bring your body get on a plane and show up to somebody's wedding show up to their birthday party bring your body um meet with people by the way if people who know me will understand how unnatural this is for me i'm not saying this because i like to hang out with people i actually find it really really exhausting to hang out with people i'm extremely introverted and that's why i've had to learn this as one of the big lessons in this lifetime is bring the body another thing a project that i got involved in most of my success as a teacher has been virtual virtual platforms online but precisely because of this idea i bought a property so i didn't have to do i could have gone completely virtual i don't have to be brick and mortar but i actually bought a property last year which from the middle of construction it's in Queens, New York and it's going to be it's not a not a large facility small about 1300 square feet but the point is to have a physical place to get together and to study and to meet and to have discussions so one of the things the basement is going to be my video production facility so i'm going to come check it out when i'm a queen you definitely when you come to come to Queens you'll check it out i'm scanning all your equipment right now and making my wish list but i got it all written down i'll have a written down excellent okay i'll give it to my AV guy but physical place is showing up to physical places so so important because otherwise it's like why is my soul in a body what's the point what's the point of being a soul in a body so bring your body to places where you can be of service where you can make a contribution where your presence will be appreciated probably the most important place to bring your body where your presence will be appreciated as the dinner table with your family okay that's one thing the other thing same point but the other thing you can do to make good use of your embodiment is to really understand how spiritually powerful cherry is um because money is material it i mean even if it's not actual currency or assets even if just like moving numbers from one computer to another but of it procures material resources you earn it through exertion of your body even if you're not a manual laborer but there's certain you're burning calories while you're working right so when you take that and you turn it into charity you're converting it from material to spiritual so to speak and you're making good use of your embodiment the souls in heaven can't give charity so souls and bodies can give charity also another thing and we mentioned my money is an interesting the eight levels of giving another thing my money says which is the importance of repeated acts of charity and what that means is a lot of people don't know this if you can give in one lump sum or you can give an installment it's actually better to give an installment now yeah it's a counter intuitive obviously if the recipient needs it now if it's like an urgent matter so you better to give it all once but i'm saying let's say somebody let's say somebody's making ten million a year they're giving away a million a year as uh there a tithe is ten percent so it would actually be better instead of one lump sum a year to ritualize it to make it a regimen and have as part of your day every day to have to click even if it's a click but it's a physical movement like like physical exercise and have to let it with the million divided by three inches to five not whatever it's thirty three thousand dollars and i was like what it is in every day have to you know click and wire that thirty three thousand a day um problem while it's thirty thousand um the repeated act the physicalized expression of it integrates the soul with the body gives peace to the soul within the body so these things really they will clear up a lot of the existential angst that maybe running in the background that we don't even realize we're feeling but when you're using your body repeatedly and um regularly for a spiritual purpose it's very healing this is time i related but you know in the past three years therapy has shifted a lot from like talk therapy to more somatic therapy or realize not everything is in the world of abstraction and the world of ideas some things are you know that like they say your issues are in your tissues right a lot of it is physical so a lot of our spiritual healing is is through physical behavior physical actions physically showing up physical allotment of physical material resources i felt this i felt i've spoken with this i've never articulated it the way that you just have and i don't have an expertise in charity so i would never even comment on that but i felt in terms of relationship building after covid it just felt like relationships were not as real as they were before and i couldn't put a finger on it outside of the fact that we just don't shake hands and just don't sit down with each other anymore that's really it because we're not brains and jars on a shelf but people are trying to operate like they are and and we're suffering for it i feel we didn't even talk about loneliness but that's another epidemic that i think people are so all into twine yeah and now we have zoom everything and we felt fatigue done zoom for a variety of reasons and then because we felt the fatigue done zoom then we defaulted to email and text and slack and we stopped even seeing each other now we're trying to do deals just via text or or build relationships be a text and i think people are lonely i want to make sure everyone knows by the way in case they think i'm a social butterfly and that's why i'm like telling everybody to get together in actual meat space i want you to know i said it up before i'll say it again i'm painfully introverted i get drained by being in in in a location with many people like just the energy of bodies in a room exhausts me so i don't gravitate toward this naturally at all but i've come to realize increasingly how essential it is to our spiritual health and then it trickles down to our all our other levels of health so it's not like i'm the guy loves to go physically show up places but we have to have if your soul's in a body you got to bring a body otherwise like what did you come down here for i think that if people actually take this take this insight to heart and spend not again we're not talking about again social butterfly going to a party i mean sometimes it's necessary or going to a networking event but if it's possible to sit down and have a conversation or if you're in the same city as opposed to you know picking up a phone go for coffee it's it's without understanding the spiritual component is very therapeutic it's very therapeutic and it builds real relationships i've never been able to build a relationship virtually and i've hired a lot of people i can never build a relationship a true relationship that has been something outside of just a transaction and even then it's a it's an awkward experience tell you that the people that i know who have been most successful in relationships meaning they know the most amount of people in our substantial way where their relationships actually well to me one of the biggest metrics for determining the successful relationship is how many other people are benefited by that relationship so i'm thinking about people i know who for instance network with a lot of people to cause a lot of good to happen in the world which ends up benefiting tons of people all all of the top three four people i'm thinking of in my mind right now are incredibly good at showing up at places that means someone has a life cycle event get out of plane to go to show up at somebody's birthday party for an hour and get out of plane and go right back home it it seems silly why should we need that send them a text there's something about the physical presence it is so beyond what we fathom so much more powerful than what we can even imagine you mentioned that you were looking into this because people are are stressed for lack of a better word about being the souls in bodies why do people get stressed about this well i think the better question is why why wouldn't someone get stressed about it like it's not normal for a soul to be in a body it's it's a weird condition but the reality is most people aren't stressed by it most people don't even think about it and you know they have their life and they go through life and everything's fine then there are the hypersensitive individuals you mentioned you mentioned neurodivergent minds so the different labels that are in fashion to use for it i'm not particularly married to any of these terms because i don't speak a lot from a clinical perspective anyway but there are certain sensitive individuals who are awake to the fact that it's weird to be in a body and these people tend to be prone to addiction because they have this constant existential discomfort which needs to be dealt with somehow or these are people who are often very intense with they get involved in behaviors or in enterprises that where they just completely immerse themselves beyond any healthy point where it's really clearly just self-numbing and a lot of these people are what society deems to be successful so that it's very much reinforced you're being cheered on for essentially indulging your addiction and i think for a lot of these people it's necessary to get to a quiet place and to just examine like who am i what am i how uncomfortable am i without any of these trappings without the brand the name the the business the the bank account the identity that i built around me like who am i when i you know my soul who is my soul and what did this soul come to this world to accomplish and these these these questions or questions that are important for everyone to ask but i think there are certain types of people highly sensitive people who are forced to ask it is there is there if somebody's listening to this and has never thought about this concept for the first time i don't want to introduce a concept and not leave them with some sort of comfort or some sort of solace or some or some insight i don't even know the right question to ask but if somebody is just wrestling with this concept for the first time having this crisis for example what would be something you'd like to leave them with first of all you're okay the fact that you're here in this body in this lifetime under these conditions was not meant to torture you a loving and all-knowing god put you exactly where you are needed and life may never be comfortable i think that's one of the lies that we try to sell so like life can be comfortable mate and some for some of us know life will never be comfortable but it can be profoundly meaningful and the way to find that meaning is so simple do not go searching the meaning of your life is not on the other side of the world open your eyes look at who you are now and the gifts that you've been given and the resources and the opportunities that you have in your life now and ask yourself how to best use that for the good of others how to maximize using that to benefit people other than yourself that's your meaning that's your meaning you know i love it where can people connect with you if they want to learn more about your work what you do it's anything else that you that you have focused on that you want to just tell people to go check out personally i mean i think god i do pretty well on social media but to me that's appetizers that's finger food the serious content is the long-form content so i would say check me out on youtube and find the long lectures the hour hour and a half to our lectures and if you're relating to the stuff that i'm talking about go take a longer journey with me where i can actually develop a concept i mean here who were able to develop many concepts because i felt very much that we're just being present here and there's no agenda which is great i appreciate that was really good i enjoyed that a lot i really enjoyed that a lot at the end of the day i think that maybe there is a selfish component as well i just like to learn and the things that i find interesting i think the useful and how it definitely could be beneficial to you and i but i think it's also beneficial the others which is you know that's why the cameras are running because we consider here without the cameras but i think there is an intention all of us have that maybe something we've experienced or an experience that we've had insight from may make somebody else's life a little better like i love it part of your story is that you didn't have to have a crisis that you learned for other people's crises so i love that concept of people being able to learn from somebody else's experience that's the reason why i built this podcast yeah it seems like it life's always gonna be a struggle but instead of struggling at a lower level like learn what you can learn from what other people already learned and then struggle on a higher level like that's always gonna be a struggle there will always be something but i agree i think that i think that most people could dig themselves out of whatever extremely stressful environment they're in right now and live a relatively good life and i mean you can define good by different terms i'm not talking about everybody making a hundred million or a billion dollars i'm saying you can live a less worrisome slightly less struggle life and i think that's really difficult it doesn't take much it doesn't take much to be comfortable doesn't take much to support your family doesn't take much to not stress about rent or mortgage payment or putting food on the table isn't very well aware that those are things that people deal with um the last question i like to ask you always you always look like you're about to say something else i never want to interrupt you and mind is always racing like yeah but full change of subject and another thought another thought will come in so i'm not too worried about no no well you have to get up you have to get up to uh department so one day in the future about a willing we'll do another that'll be great last question i always like to ask and i used to ask uh i used to ask what would you tell you like a lesson you tell your younger self but then i actually stopped asking and the reason why i stopped asking is because i think some people understood that they were actually quite happy with how their life turned out and they realized that all the the hills and valleys and and the rollercoaster ride has led them to where they're at now so they didn't want to tell their younger self anything at all which is an interesting i i was an interesting uh retort to that question so i changed it and i i want to ask will be a lesson that you want to leave your children with so they will go down a different path yeah well i hope that my answer to this question is not only what i want to leave my children with i hope this is what they're getting from me i guess you call them and ask i've been see if this is what they got from me i want them to know that it's a privilege to be here in this world you ever heard of helm no i don't know this i think it's a town in Poland but it's famous because there's a whole genre of Jewish jokes and Jewish stories about the people of helm yeah it's basically there were a town of simpletons who thought that they were intellectuals so there's a lot of jokes about their uh sophistry so there's an old helm joke about one guy one helmet says to the other he says you know based on how difficult life is sometimes i think it would have been better never have never had to have been born and the other guy says the other helmet says to the first one says yeah true but how many guys do you know were actually that lucky one out of a hundred good but you got to joke most people don't get to joke how many guys do you know who were never born right yeah i don't know any guy i don't know anyone is never born okay so so you were sent to send nerdy joke hey so nerdy so you were sent to this world not to be tortured and also not to seek pleasure you were sent to this world because something was required it only you could you could contribute that's what life is about it's about serving that purpose here in our bodies in this world