Sam DeMase - Author of Power Mood | The Career Coach With 800K Followers Says Hard Work Won't Save You

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Four and five workers are staying in jobs they hate because they feel that the market is too risky to switch.

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What's going on?

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The market does feel risky right now because the market is risky.

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There are fewer opportunities right now, even though there's a lot of qualified people.

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But what I will say is when you know your strengths, you know your value proposition and what you bring to the table, there are opportunities even in this tight market.

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Today's guest is Sam DeMaze, also known as your career bestie.

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She's career expert at ZipRecruiter.

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In this conversation, she explores professional growth, finding the right path, and navigating the modern job market.

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She shares practical advice on getting promoted, advocating for yourself, and building a career that fits the life you want.

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How do people get into jobs where they're not using their strengths?

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I think the correct way to look at it is to identify your ideal lifestyle first and then pick a career that fits that.

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What is some of the most hurtful or worst career advice that people still believe?

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I think one is definitely hard work pays off.

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I disagree with that.

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It will only pay off when you can say it in a succinct way and promote it to the powers that be.

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MyFitnessPal is a success story partner.

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Now, everybody wants more energy.

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Everybody wants better sleep.

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Everybody wants to feel sharper during the day, to not hit that wall in the afternoon where your brain just checks out.

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And people try a lot of things to get there.

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So new routines, new supplements, better sleep habits, more coffee, less coffee, all of the above.

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And some of that stuff works, but the single biggest lever you have for how you feel on any given day is what you eat.

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It's not the most exciting answer,

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Nobody's making a viral reel about eating lunch, but food is a foundation, right?

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Your energy, your sleep, your weight, your recovery, how you perform at work, how you feel when you get home.

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It's the one input that touches everything else.

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Now, the problem is that most people have no idea what they're actually eating.

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They have a general sense.

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They can say, I eat pretty healthy, okay, but how much protein are you getting?

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And how does that break down across your day?

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Are you eating enough in the morning?

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Are you stacking everything at night?

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Those details matter a lot.

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And you can't answer those questions without logging what you eat and looking at the data.

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And that's why I use the MyFitnessPal app, because you log what you eat and it shows you exactly what's going on.

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Your macros, for example, that's just your proteins, your carbs, your fats.

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those are broken down by grams.

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And on premium, it breaks those numbers down by meals.

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So you're not just seeing one number for the day, you're seeing what breakfast looks like versus lunch versus dinner, and that changes things.

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Because your body doesn't run on daily averages, it runs on what you give it right now.

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The food analysis, another great feature, it shows you patterns across the week too.

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Where things are consistent, where they start to drift, and you're gonna notice how well you eat impacts your energy and why you wanna stay consistent, and when you don't, why you start to feel like you're hitting walls

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in the afternoon.

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Now the food logging, this is where a lot of people think it's going to be a whole thing.

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It's not.

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For example, I can say what I ate out loud.

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There's a voice logging feature and it's done, or I can scan a barcode of something I ate two seconds.

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There's also a meal scan where I just point my camera at a plate and the app captures exactly what I ate and all the macronutrients.

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And MyFitnessPal has the largest food database out there.

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So whatever I'm eating is already in it.

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And it remembers what I eat regularly.

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Also, it connects with over 40 fitness apps and wearables.

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So everything goes into one spot, all of my health, wellness, and nutrition.

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So if you have been trying to figure out why your energy dips in the afternoon, or why you're not sleeping as well as you used to, or why you just feel off and you can't put a finger on it, look at your food first, before you buy another supplement, or you try some other hack.

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The answer is usually in nutrition.

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And this is the easiest way that I found to actually see what's going into your body and track it and pay attention to it and improve it.

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So do yourself a favor.

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Go to podcast.myfitnesspal.com and use code Scott.

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That's S-C-O-T-T, all uppercase.

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That gives you 15% off MyFitnessPal Premium.

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One more time, that is podcast.myfitnesspal.com.

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Code Scott.

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That's giving you 15% off MyFitnessPal Premium.

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Sam, four and five workers are staying in jobs they hate because they feel that the market is too risky to switch.

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What's going on?

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The market does feel risky right now because the market is risky.

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There are fewer opportunities right now, even though there's a lot of qualified people.

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But what I will say is when you know your strengths, you know your value proposition and what you bring to the table, there are opportunities even in this tight market.

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But that's so sad, scary.

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Like the majority of people that are in careers, is that the truth?

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They're just not happy?

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I think right now when you're not happy in your career, that doesn't mean you're not happy in the rest of your life.

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So Gen Z and millennials, I think, have really ushered in a big cultural shift where maybe in previous generations, your job was your entire happiness, your entire being, your entire life.

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For us, your job is one small part of a bigger, beautiful life.

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So for me, and I've been in that scenario where I've hated my job, but I loved other aspects of my life.

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So I think right now we're seeing people leaning into these other things and diversifying their careers and their lifestyles to find that happiness.

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Okay, so I would have thought that if I don't love my career, that means that I'm stressed about the thing that supports the rest of my life.

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So I agree with you.

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You shouldn't just think a career is your whole life and everything and the end all.

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But if the thing that makes you money is a tumultuous part of your lived experience, for example, how do you...

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Let's think Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right?

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Like if the thing that pays the rent and puts food on the table, you feel like is in jeopardy.

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How?

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How do you enjoy the rest of your life?

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That's my question because I agree that you should.

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I feel like I wouldn't if I wasn't sure if I was going to make rent next month.

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I think it's really challenging.

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I think we're in a really challenging time for a lot of people.

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And I think when you think about being unhappy in a role, I think it starts to become, how can I use my talents?

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How can I use my superpowers in this role in ways that maybe I haven't before?

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So I think it becomes about you taking your career in your hands and saying, okay, I don't like this work.

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I don't like my boss, whatever it may be, identify those things.

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Identify what you do like about it, which can be hard to do, but sit down, identify some things you do like about it and carve out pathways for you to work on those things to be able to utilize your strengths.

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So a lot of times when people are unhappy in the work, it's because they're not using their strengths.

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So figure out whether that's getting into another job, whether that's moving laterally at your current company, figure that out so you can be using your strengths.

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Because when you're not using your strengths is when you're drained and when you're miserable.

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How do people get into jobs where they're not using their strengths?

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Is it they fall into them and it's back to that stat?

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They're scared to switch?

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So they're just doing something they're not good at?

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I think there's some old advice.

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Find your dream job, which is outdated.

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I think the correct way to look at it is to identify your ideal lifestyle first and then pick a career that fits that.

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But I don't think a lot of people are approaching it that way.

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Well, I agree because I don't think most parents would give that advice.

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And that's where we get most of our career advice from.

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100%.

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Parents, outdated playbook.

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Yes.

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I mean, even, you know, myself, I was in a job.

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I was...

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Moving up, doing quite well.

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But this is what's tough.

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And this created a lot of anxiety in my life.

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Even though I was following the playbook that my parents set out for me that worked well for them.

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My dad's first job, he could buy his first house cash, right?

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He could have a family at a much younger age because he wasn't worried about living paycheck to paycheck.

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He had a pension, which doesn't really exist in the same way that he used to.

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And for people who have no idea what a pension is, because maybe some people don't, my dad...

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He worked for the government in Canada where I'm from, and he would have, if he worked so many, 30, 35 years, 70% of his five best year salary as a pension for the rest of his life.

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So for math, if he made 100 grand, he makes 70 grand at 55 until he retired.

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So that level of stability is...

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that level of stability worked with the playbook that he subscribed to.

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I realized that playbook doesn't exist anymore.

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No one offers a pension outside of government.

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Maybe private companies don't.

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So then I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to bet on myself.

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I'm going to try and be an entrepreneur.

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I'm going to try and do, because a whole other can of worms and incredibly stressful as well.

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So I didn't see how I could, um,

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navigate my career successfully and live the same life that him and my mom did.

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So I think a lot of people feel that disparity.

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They're like, I'm doing the same thing my parents did.

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And I don't have the same life that my parents had.

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So how does somebody navigate a career successfully?

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What's your, I need an optimistic message to that group of people.

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I think there's a lot of them.

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Yeah.

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And I think it's important, number one, to acknowledge that we're living in a different economic reality than our parents.

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And sometimes we find it hard to have those discussions with the older generations because they're like, why don't you have a house at this time?

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I know my mom recently was texting me an article like, what's going on?

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even have a house yet?

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What's happening?

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And I don't have time to get into this whole conversation with her.

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So it's exactly our reality, right?

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It's like this, we live in a totally different reality.

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Company loyalty doesn't provide what it used to.

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You can't afford a house the same way your parents could.

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Pensions don't exist, right?

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401k match if you're lucky.

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So first things first is to acknowledge the reality that we're in.

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But in terms of some optimistic pieces of advice, build

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As a mosaic, build your career as a portfolio.

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The ladder is dead.

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So bet on your skills.

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Don't bet on the ladder.

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No, but explain that.

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Sorry, so explain.

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Ladder is dead.

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What is that?

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That's what I'm describing.

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What my dad did, what my mom did when she went back to work after having me and my brother.

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It's a ladder.

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So the traditional ladder where you would work at one company for, you know, 10 years, 20 years and continue moving up internally from coordinator to manager to director to VP to C-suite, that trajectory no longer, number one, no longer exists.

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Number two, doesn't afford the same financial gains that it used to.

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It's not about how long you were there.

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It's about the impact that you made.

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What did you transform?

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What did you build?

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What did you fix?

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That is important.

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So if you can tell a story of impact, that's what goes on your resume.

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That's what recruiters care about, not the tenure.

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When I think about how I hire now, you know what's so funny?

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I don't think I've ever looked at

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how long they've stayed in different positions.

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I look at, can they do the job that I need them to do?

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And can they do it successfully?

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And sometimes it's like, have they even done it before?

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And I can just see exactly how they've done it last year, the year before.

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Well, I know they've done it well.

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So come do it for me.

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I've never really cared.

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And I don't know when that shifted.

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It's actually, you know, it's funny.

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That's the way I've always hired.

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I've always hired just based on like, is the person suitable for the job?

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Can they actually do the job to be done?

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I remember though, when I worked in companies when I was starting my career, and there was times when I'd be responsible for hiring people and I have to give, you know, a stack of CVs or resumes to the director, the manager, the founder, the CEO, and that's the one thing they'd point out.

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They figure out why, you know, they figure if they, if they,

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have a gap in their resume, that's like a huge red flag.

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That was a huge red flag.

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Or if they've gone from company A to company B to company C, it's like, oh, they must be unemployable.

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They must be like the worst person to work with ever.

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So you see that this has completely shifted.

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And when I say employers, the caveat is employers you want to work for.

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Yes.

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Which is a big caveat.

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Correct.

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You see that they don't care as much anymore.

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They focus on different metrics, kind of like what I'm doing when I'm hiring.

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Yes, exactly your approach.

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Proof of impact, proof of skill sets.

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Can you do this job?

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Have you done this before?

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Do you have a track record of achievements in terms of the things I'm looking for?

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That's what it is.

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So when I was doing research for this podcast, I saw some interesting stats and opinions on the job market because a lot of companies say they can't find good people.

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Crazy, because the job seekers are also saying they're getting ghosted and they can't find good opportunities.

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So who's correct?

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Like who's right?

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There's these two competing ideas.

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They both can't be correct.

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What's going on here?

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Two things can be true.

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I do believe the process is broken on both sides, from the job seeker side and from the employer side.

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There's challenges on both sides.

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And I think there's a lot that could be critiqued that could be changed.

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I think from the job seeker standpoint, it's really hard to have a conversation with an employer.

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I think ZipRecruiter does a great job of starting conversations between employers and job seekers.

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But that is a huge pain point.

222
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Also, ghost jobs, catfishing in the market, um,

223
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And then for the employers, they have a hard time sussing out where is my ideal candidate?

224
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Who's my ideal hire?

225
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Because they're shifting through these AI generated resumes.

226
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They're sifting through a lot of resumes that are not relevant to the position.

227
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So there's challenges on both sides.

228
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It's a process that needs some upheaval.

229
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So we can talk about companies later and how to find the right recruits.

230
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I wanna talk to people right now that are in jobs.

231
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I think those are the people that are struggling the most.

232
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And even before we press record, I said, I have a lot of entrepreneurs and founders on this podcast.

233
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I don't have a lot of people that teach you how to navigate

234
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career.

235
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And that is like probably a little bit over 50% of the people listen to this podcast.

236
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So they get some great ideas from the entrepreneurs, but then they're like, okay, how do I get the promotion?

237
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Not many founders and CEOs that come on this show teach you how to get the promotion.

238
00:14:24.952 --> 00:14:28.015
So how do you like, how do you operate in like a modern job environment?

239
00:14:28.416 --> 00:14:28.736
So I'm

240
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You said mosaic jobs.

241
00:14:32.499 --> 00:14:34.561
You explained the latter, but mosaic jobs.

242
00:14:34.781 --> 00:14:45.269
Go a little bit deeper into what a mosaic job is, but maybe some other strategies that can help people navigate and, you know, get the promotion, get the title if that's what they want, get more compensation.

243
00:14:46.045 --> 00:14:46.966
Yeah, for sure.

244
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So I think if you're looking to get promoted in your current role, of course, know your strengths and celebrate the achievements that you've accomplished in that role.

245
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So keep a running list of everything that you've done, every impact that you've made.

246
00:15:01.034 --> 00:15:08.578
And then I think the most important piece that doesn't get talked about as much is the self-advocacy piece of approaching your boss and saying, this is the role that I want next.

247
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Here are my achievements.

248
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Will you advocate for me to help me get there?

249
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So having that direct conversation with your boss and making them your ally in the conversation and making them your champion when it comes to advocating for you to the powers that be, I think that conversation is really important to have.

250
00:15:22.983 --> 00:15:27.064
I think a lot of people just wait, wait on the boss to come to them.

251
00:15:27.364 --> 00:15:29.145
You know, hard work will speak for itself.

252
00:15:30.045 --> 00:15:31.266
That is false.

253
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That is not happening anytime soon.

254
00:15:33.947 --> 00:15:35.428
I've never had that experience.

255
00:15:35.488 --> 00:15:38.469
Nobody I know has ever had that experience.

256
00:15:38.549 --> 00:15:41.031
This was kind of what led me to writing my book in the first place.

257
00:15:41.531 --> 00:15:43.492
So, yeah, I think that it was about self.

258
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It was it was mostly because people don't advocate for themselves.

259
00:15:46.627 --> 00:15:46.907
Yeah.

260
00:15:46.947 --> 00:15:52.609
And I think the old advice was is still very pervasive in a lot of career books written by men.

261
00:15:53.009 --> 00:15:57.831
The self-advocacy piece is missing because I think for men they have to advocate for themselves less.

262
00:15:58.011 --> 00:16:03.674
But as women, you know, we are grown up and conditioned to be people pleasers.

263
00:16:04.074 --> 00:16:10.176
So we're not always in that mindset of self-advocacy because of the broader system and the way it's set up.

264
00:16:10.296 --> 00:16:12.597
So I think it was important to acknowledge the elephant in the room.

265
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I've heard this before.

266
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I don't know the data behind it, but if a guy sees a job that he's unqualified for, he's going to apply anyways.

267
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And if a woman sees a job that she is incredibly qualified for, she still second guesses whether or not to apply for it.

268
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I think that data is outdated.

269
00:16:31.071 --> 00:16:35.332
I challenge that because I think women are applying for roles just as much as men are.

270
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I think it's the system that rejects women that they perceive as less qualified.

271
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Explain how to navigate that then, because that is super not great news for a woman who is super ambitious in her career.

272
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So she is qualified.

273
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She is applying.

274
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She's not getting the results.

275
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She's not getting the job.

276
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She's not getting the callback.

277
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So what does she do?

278
00:16:58.683 --> 00:17:02.426
I mean, I guess we're now talking about sort of like critiquing the broader system, right?

279
00:17:02.446 --> 00:17:06.468
There are certain things that are beyond our control, right?

280
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Like as a woman, right, the system is beyond my control, right?

281
00:17:10.271 --> 00:17:14.314
So in terms of what is within my control, I can focus on that, right?

282
00:17:14.354 --> 00:17:21.539
So for me, when I'm advising clients, community, I'm talking about know your strengths down to a laser pinpoint.

283
00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:23.560
Don't be a generalist, be a specialist.

284
00:17:23.600 --> 00:17:26.002
So really identify your strengths and name them.

285
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So that's number one.

286
00:17:27.643 --> 00:17:39.530
I would say number two is focus on opportunities that you're excited about and passionate about because the intersection of utilizing your strengths and pursuing your passion is where the money is and where the happiness lies.

287
00:17:39.550 --> 00:17:42.231
So I would say I would say that I would also say.

288
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Call out what's what's happening and talk to other people about it.

289
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Talk to your family.

290
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Talk to your best friend.

291
00:17:49.326 --> 00:17:50.286
Talk to your therapist.

292
00:17:50.406 --> 00:17:53.249
Talk about what's going on and don't be silent about it.

293
00:17:53.329 --> 00:17:58.253
Have conversations like what we're having today and call out what's going on in the system and what's challenging.

294
00:17:59.113 --> 00:18:00.815
A lot of people experience imposter syndrome.

295
00:18:00.835 --> 00:18:03.797
So I think just talking about that and saying, hey, I experienced this.

296
00:18:03.837 --> 00:18:05.278
So does everybody else.

297
00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:07.440
That diminishes the power of it.

298
00:18:08.067 --> 00:18:08.527
I like that.

299
00:18:08.768 --> 00:18:16.234
How does somebody, you mentioned about getting sort of advocates in the company to help you with your career.

300
00:18:17.094 --> 00:18:24.861
And obviously this can help men or women, but say women are hurting and they're not getting the opportunities even though they want them and they're applying for them and they're like highly overqualified for them.

301
00:18:25.961 --> 00:18:29.244
How do you get an advocate to sort of champion you in your job?

302
00:18:29.264 --> 00:18:29.945
Because I think that is,

303
00:18:31.105 --> 00:18:41.250
That is like a huge, huge advantage when somebody who, say you're just starting out manager, director, VP, C-suite, they can make things happen.

304
00:18:42.210 --> 00:18:47.433
And I'll just say one more thing and then I'll ask your advice on how to get that person to advocate for you.

305
00:18:49.693 --> 00:18:59.859
A lot of the time, if you're doing everything right and you're not getting the results that you think you should be getting, you have to be, you have to remove the ego out of the equation.

306
00:18:59.899 --> 00:19:02.001
Like if you, if you're not qualified, then you're not qualified.

307
00:19:02.561 --> 00:19:05.102
But if you are truly qualified, no one's advocating for you.

308
00:19:05.723 --> 00:19:06.743
You're not getting the promotion.

309
00:19:06.944 --> 00:19:08.024
You're not getting the salary.

310
00:19:09.045 --> 00:19:10.806
Like you should not work for that company.

311
00:19:11.617 --> 00:19:12.439
100 percent.

312
00:19:12.579 --> 00:19:13.320
Yeah, you should leave.

313
00:19:13.641 --> 00:19:14.061
You should leave.

314
00:19:14.122 --> 00:19:19.811
And I think that that is like a very important message to like not everything can be solved with every company ever.

315
00:19:20.212 --> 00:19:23.999
And it's not your fault if things aren't working out.

316
00:19:24.408 --> 00:19:25.368
Yeah, 100 percent.

317
00:19:25.388 --> 00:19:28.430
And I advise clients and job seekers on that all the time.

318
00:19:28.570 --> 00:19:31.591
And the best time to look for a job is while you have one, even if you don't like it.

319
00:19:31.931 --> 00:19:40.635
You know, it's a great time because you can still feel you're getting your financials taken care of and you can focus on your strengths and look elsewhere because you already have a job.

320
00:19:40.715 --> 00:19:42.396
So that is a great time to do that.

321
00:19:42.996 --> 00:19:45.657
So getting getting advocacy for people in the company.

322
00:19:46.063 --> 00:19:47.304
Yeah, I think that's a great question.

323
00:19:48.185 --> 00:19:51.508
I think having allies and establishing relationships is really important.

324
00:19:51.888 --> 00:19:55.832
I think a lot of times when you hear the word networking, people think like, how do I network?

325
00:19:55.852 --> 00:19:56.933
How do I build a network?

326
00:19:56.973 --> 00:19:58.334
How do I reach out to people?

327
00:19:58.755 --> 00:20:02.078
For me, networking is about deepening your existing connections.

328
00:20:02.458 --> 00:20:05.122
So it's about networking more deeply with the people you already know.

329
00:20:05.502 --> 00:20:12.331
So when you think about your company where you work now, besides your boss, who you want to connect with, who do you organically have a connection with?

330
00:20:12.351 --> 00:20:13.713
So I call that niche networking.

331
00:20:13.753 --> 00:20:15.655
So for me, I'm a woman in the workplace.

332
00:20:15.715 --> 00:20:16.637
I'm a woman in leadership.

333
00:20:16.677 --> 00:20:18.920
So I want to connect with other women in leadership.

334
00:20:19.460 --> 00:20:21.581
And I want to deepen my connections with them.

335
00:20:21.761 --> 00:20:23.762
So who do I share common ground with?

336
00:20:23.842 --> 00:20:32.327
People on my team, people outside my team who maybe share my hobbies, share my interests, who maybe share my same skill sets or who have complementary skill sets to me.

337
00:20:32.887 --> 00:20:35.449
So that's who I look to to build those connections.

338
00:20:35.749 --> 00:20:39.611
And I make sure when I'm talking to them, I am very clear about what it is I'm good at.

339
00:20:40.071 --> 00:20:41.012
Here's what I bring to the table.

340
00:20:41.112 --> 00:20:42.232
I develop people.

341
00:20:42.312 --> 00:20:43.413
I develop leaders.

342
00:20:43.533 --> 00:20:45.274
I work on people first leadership.

343
00:20:45.314 --> 00:20:47.155
I help people discover their superpowers.

344
00:20:47.515 --> 00:20:49.317
How can that be a value to you and your team?

345
00:20:49.657 --> 00:20:50.877
How can we collaborate on that?

346
00:20:51.058 --> 00:20:55.520
So you make you make your skill set known across the entire company.

347
00:20:55.860 --> 00:20:56.121
Yes.

348
00:20:56.841 --> 00:21:03.245
As opposed to what I'm going to assume is you see a role and you're only trying to network with the hiring manager for that role.

349
00:21:04.105 --> 00:21:05.186
And that could be the mistake.

350
00:21:05.898 --> 00:21:09.839
Yes, I think it's about connecting with people you already share a common ground with.

351
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:11.360
I understand.

352
00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:17.581
So it's, you know, in sales, just in my background, there's a strategy.

353
00:21:17.801 --> 00:21:20.742
It's going to be a little bit nerdy, but it's called multi-threading.

354
00:21:21.483 --> 00:21:27.324
What it means is when you're trying to sell something to somebody, you don't just talk to the person who's buying your product or service.

355
00:21:27.724 --> 00:21:33.226
You talk to like five or seven people around them that are all going to influence their decision.

356
00:21:33.726 --> 00:21:44.389
So you make friends with the, you know, the junior level marketer, or you make friends with the director of IT that's going to have to figure out how to implement your shit that you just sold them.

357
00:21:44.409 --> 00:21:52.611
Or you're going to make friends with all these people and talk to all of these people in the company so that by the time CMO, CEO actually makes a decision to buy your stuff.

358
00:21:54.387 --> 00:21:58.410
starts asking around, there's like five people that are like, oh, I love Scott.

359
00:21:58.650 --> 00:21:59.431
I love what he's doing.

360
00:21:59.451 --> 00:22:00.212
I love what he's selling.

361
00:22:00.272 --> 00:22:01.032
We should definitely buy it.

362
00:22:01.052 --> 00:22:01.913
I've spoken to him like five times.

363
00:22:01.933 --> 00:22:02.353
He's a great guy.

364
00:22:02.373 --> 00:22:02.954
We went for coffee.

365
00:22:03.434 --> 00:22:06.136
And then on top of that, like, it's actually going to solve the problem that we have.

366
00:22:06.557 --> 00:22:07.778
So it's almost like the same idea.

367
00:22:07.898 --> 00:22:08.298
It's like...

368
00:22:10.840 --> 00:22:13.781
get everybody on board with how cool and badass you are.

369
00:22:14.122 --> 00:22:15.022
And then that helps.

370
00:22:15.222 --> 00:22:25.727
It really does help because like people will talk about what, you know, all the value you bring, all the projects you're working on, how you've helped this person over here with part of their job that has no, you don't, it's not part of your JD.

371
00:22:26.367 --> 00:22:29.488
You don't have to be doing that, but you're showing like all your value.

372
00:22:29.989 --> 00:22:30.169
Yeah.

373
00:22:30.189 --> 00:22:31.029
You gain influence.

374
00:22:31.369 --> 00:22:39.433
You, you gain influence that way and people start talking and you don't have to generate that talk because people will just organically talk about it when you bring that value.

375
00:22:39.956 --> 00:22:42.106
Should you apply to jobs you're not qualified for?

376
00:22:42.327 --> 00:22:42.568
Yes.

377
00:22:43.602 --> 00:22:50.246
Talk me through applying for a job you are not qualified for, but then what's next when you get the call back?

378
00:22:50.466 --> 00:22:55.228
So I should say applying for jobs you're not qualified for is part of a strategy, right?

379
00:22:55.268 --> 00:22:59.411
So you want to apply mostly for jobs that you are appropriately qualified for.

380
00:22:59.871 --> 00:23:04.413
And you want to apply for some reach jobs as well, because if you don't, you're limiting yourself, right?

381
00:23:04.774 --> 00:23:08.035
So it comes down to does this job match my superpowers?

382
00:23:08.055 --> 00:23:09.716
Does this job match my zones of genius?

383
00:23:09.776 --> 00:23:12.278
So it always comes back to self-awareness of your skill sets.

384
00:23:13.283 --> 00:23:19.113
Then as part of your job search strategy, you do want to apply to some jobs that are reach jobs.

385
00:23:19.214 --> 00:23:23.361
And your question is, once you've applied for those- Once you get that callback from that job, yeah.

386
00:23:23.822 --> 00:23:25.144
You get a callback from a reach job.

387
00:23:25.164 --> 00:23:25.324
Yes.

388
00:23:26.318 --> 00:23:27.458
I mean, that's a win.

389
00:23:27.498 --> 00:23:28.419
I think that's a huge win.

390
00:23:28.439 --> 00:23:29.859
First of all, celebrate that.

391
00:23:29.939 --> 00:23:30.720
That's exciting.

392
00:23:31.100 --> 00:23:32.980
And then all of a sudden, maybe that's going to become your norm.

393
00:23:33.080 --> 00:23:38.822
That's going to accelerate your job search because you challenged yourself and you applied for something that's a little bit beyond what you thought you could do.

394
00:23:39.202 --> 00:23:43.284
You just unlocked a bunch of opportunities you may have never thought to go for.

395
00:23:44.037 --> 00:23:45.018
I think that's so wise.

396
00:23:45.098 --> 00:23:58.015
I also think that, I think that not everybody, but a lot of people don't realize how incredible they are and how if they're given these sort of reach jobs or reach opportunities, like they're going to figure it out.

397
00:23:58.756 --> 00:24:00.118
Like you got to bet on yourself more.

398
00:24:00.398 --> 00:24:01.920
You really have to bet on yourself more.

399
00:24:02.120 --> 00:24:02.740
100%.

400
00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:11.862
This is like at the root of my work, kind of why I started my business is because people are under utilizing their strengths or not tapped into what makes them great.

401
00:24:12.162 --> 00:24:16.863
And that's my superpowers, helping other people discover and cultivate their superpowers.

402
00:24:17.504 --> 00:24:23.465
What is some of the most hurtful or worst career advice that people still believe?

403
00:24:24.105 --> 00:24:27.646
I think one is definitely hard work pays off.

404
00:24:29.701 --> 00:24:30.642
I disagree with that.

405
00:24:32.083 --> 00:24:39.450
Hard work is great, but on its own, it is not going to pay off financially, emotionally, in any capacity.

406
00:24:40.331 --> 00:24:42.733
It will only pay off when you can...

407
00:24:45.238 --> 00:24:49.719
say it in a succinct way, and promote it to the powers that be.

408
00:24:49.919 --> 00:24:59.182
So if you're not advocating for the results that you've delivered and branding your results, I talk about this a lot, about like brand your results.

409
00:24:59.302 --> 00:25:04.604
Like to get a job in the market today, you kind of have to think like a marketer and brand yourself.

410
00:25:05.084 --> 00:25:10.926
Brand your results, brand the work that you deliver for a company,

411
00:25:11.846 --> 00:25:14.347
in a really powerful, succinct way.

412
00:25:14.607 --> 00:25:16.608
If you're not doing that, the hard work doesn't matter.

413
00:25:17.828 --> 00:25:20.689
I want to tell a quick story that I mentioned before we pressed record.

414
00:25:21.009 --> 00:25:29.652
I'm going to ask what happens when a company, you're advocating for yourself, but a company is just not treating you the way that you should be.

415
00:25:29.692 --> 00:25:32.653
Like, what do you do to move into a better situation?

416
00:25:32.673 --> 00:25:35.534
You mentioned like looking for jobs while you're already employed.

417
00:25:35.554 --> 00:25:38.115
I'm going to talk about quiet quitting too and all that stuff.

418
00:25:38.975 --> 00:25:43.676
Um, this was a really interesting thing that happened to me in my career.

419
00:25:43.696 --> 00:25:51.758
So very, very early on, um, I was working for a company and I was going to be promoted and the promotion came with like a very small percent pay raise.

420
00:25:52.518 --> 00:26:06.161
And, uh, the director, my director at the time said, it's so stupid, but if we hire you externally, for example, say instead of going from like 60 to 65, I could hire you externally at 80,000 per year.

421
00:26:07.461 --> 00:26:10.203
Just significant for a young kid just in their career.

422
00:26:10.223 --> 00:26:11.364
It's like a 20 grand bump.

423
00:26:11.404 --> 00:26:12.886
That's huge.

424
00:26:13.606 --> 00:26:18.710
And he said, listen, Scott, you're like way overqualified.

425
00:26:18.971 --> 00:26:19.831
You can move into this.

426
00:26:19.891 --> 00:26:20.552
It was in sales.

427
00:26:20.572 --> 00:26:22.734
You can move from small market to mid market.

428
00:26:22.754 --> 00:26:23.775
You can sell to bigger companies.

429
00:26:23.795 --> 00:26:24.535
You're already killing it.

430
00:26:25.476 --> 00:26:28.919
But I need you to put your resignation on my desk and then I'll rehire you.

431
00:26:30.653 --> 00:26:37.641
Obviously, this is not the way that the company wanted this to work out, but he was a big fan of me.

432
00:26:38.081 --> 00:26:38.882
He was helping me.

433
00:26:38.942 --> 00:26:41.145
He was like, what's the word?

434
00:26:41.285 --> 00:26:42.727
Not advocacy, but what was the other word?

435
00:26:42.747 --> 00:26:43.487
He was an ally.

436
00:26:43.507 --> 00:26:44.248
He was an ally, yeah.

437
00:26:44.308 --> 00:26:48.173
He was a huge ally, sort of instructing me on how to navigate this broken system.

438
00:26:49.513 --> 00:26:59.421
A lot of other, this was a big company, a lot of other people probably did not have that ally in the company and probably did not get that advice and probably were getting paid way less than somebody who was hired externally.

439
00:27:00.602 --> 00:27:03.264
When you're in a shitty situation like that, you don't have an ally.

440
00:27:04.485 --> 00:27:05.405
And I think this is very real.

441
00:27:05.425 --> 00:27:11.150
This is why Mosaic Careers exist, because of dumbass policies like what I just described.

442
00:27:11.750 --> 00:27:12.731
It's dumbass policies.

443
00:27:12.791 --> 00:27:16.654
It's people that don't have allies, and they're realizing that,

444
00:27:18.598 --> 00:27:21.200
Some companies don't value you the way that they should.

445
00:27:22.762 --> 00:27:26.745
So if you come to this realization, it sucks, but what do you do next?

446
00:27:27.326 --> 00:27:30.909
I think it's amazing you had that powerful ally to sort of guide you through that process.

447
00:27:30.929 --> 00:27:32.791
But to your point, you know, we don't all have that.

448
00:27:33.712 --> 00:27:40.017
But I think this is where knowing your skill sets and betting on your skills comes in handy, right?

449
00:27:40.037 --> 00:27:40.798
We're not betting on the ladder.

450
00:27:40.818 --> 00:27:41.599
We're betting on our skills.

451
00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:43.380
So it's about...

452
00:27:44.141 --> 00:27:45.902
Can I take my skills elsewhere?

453
00:27:46.143 --> 00:27:47.444
Can I take my skills elsewhere?

454
00:27:47.544 --> 00:27:52.368
I do this and become a consultant and say, all right, this company is undervaluing me.

455
00:27:52.668 --> 00:27:53.749
I know what I can offer.

456
00:27:54.249 --> 00:27:57.451
Using my skills in X, I help companies achieve Y.

457
00:27:58.112 --> 00:27:59.373
Know your value proposition.

458
00:27:59.513 --> 00:28:00.494
Know it inside and out.

459
00:28:00.574 --> 00:28:03.917
Know exactly what your skills are and what you bring to the table, how you add value.

460
00:28:04.777 --> 00:28:07.700
And take that and run it on your own.

461
00:28:07.820 --> 00:28:11.082
See if you can turn that into multiple consulting opportunities.

462
00:28:11.302 --> 00:28:14.145
Maybe one freelance gig while you're still at your corporate job.

463
00:28:14.185 --> 00:28:14.965
Dip a toe in.

464
00:28:15.286 --> 00:28:19.289
We're seeing a lot of people start this now and it's driven by economic necessity, right?

465
00:28:19.389 --> 00:28:19.929
In case they're

466
00:28:20.810 --> 00:28:21.751
company lays them off.

467
00:28:21.891 --> 00:28:25.375
It's like, all right, well, I have this other freelance thing going that I'm building, that I'm working on.

468
00:28:25.856 --> 00:28:29.380
So we're seeing a lot of folks turning to entrepreneurship.

469
00:28:29.420 --> 00:28:38.531
In a recent ZipRecruiter grad survey, we're seeing the highest percentage that we've seen of recent grads that are considering entrepreneurship as a career path.

470
00:28:38.971 --> 00:28:40.252
Plod is a success story partner.

471
00:28:40.432 --> 00:28:42.614
Now, I spoke about Plod a few episodes back.

472
00:28:42.694 --> 00:28:48.019
This is the AI powered device that captures your conversations, turns them into transcripts, summaries, action items.

473
00:28:48.179 --> 00:28:52.023
And I wanted to come back to it because I keep finding new ways that this thing is incredibly useful.

474
00:28:52.323 --> 00:28:55.586
Last week, I sat down with a potential sponsor at a coffee shop.

475
00:28:55.906 --> 00:29:00.868
And we're going back and forth on deliverables, timelines, pricing, a lot of details and a lot of numbers.

476
00:29:00.968 --> 00:29:04.610
And normally after a conversation like that, I'd open my notes app on my phone.

477
00:29:05.010 --> 00:29:06.231
I try to write everything down.

478
00:29:06.271 --> 00:29:11.293
I remembered and I'd probably get about 70% of it, but the other 30% would be gone.

479
00:29:11.773 --> 00:29:14.917
usually the small details that end up mattering a lot later.

480
00:29:15.157 --> 00:29:20.744
But this time, with their permission, I had the note pin S on my shirt and I honestly forgot it was even there.

481
00:29:20.984 --> 00:29:24.248
So after the meeting, I opened up my Plod app and everything was already laid out.

482
00:29:24.268 --> 00:29:30.536
The full transcript, a clear summary, the key numbers we discussed and the follow ups I'd agreed to, and I could even ask Plod what

483
00:29:30.596 --> 00:29:32.696
pricing did we discuss or what were my next steps?

484
00:29:32.897 --> 00:29:34.437
And it pulls up the answer right away.

485
00:29:34.597 --> 00:29:36.797
I didn't have to reconstruct the conversation from memory.

486
00:29:37.058 --> 00:29:38.778
And that's the part that I keep coming back to.

487
00:29:38.858 --> 00:29:44.999
I'm not splitting my attention in meetings between being present in the conversation and trying to document and remember everything.

488
00:29:45.239 --> 00:29:50.301
I can just focus on the person in front of me, knowing that the important details will be there afterwards.

489
00:29:50.501 --> 00:29:51.661
And remember, they do have two products.

490
00:29:51.681 --> 00:29:54.041
So the Note Pro magnetically attaches at the back of your phone.

491
00:29:54.061 --> 00:30:00.423
It's great for calls and the Note Pin S clips or magnetically attaches to your shirt, making it ideal for in-person conversations.

492
00:30:00.703 --> 00:30:03.045
And you can choose between them depending on the situation.

493
00:30:03.105 --> 00:30:08.430
So if you spend a lot of your day in conversations and you're tired of losing important details, go check it out.

494
00:30:08.670 --> 00:30:13.274
Go to plod.ai slash success and use code success for 15% off.

495
00:30:13.294 --> 00:30:16.576
That's plod.ai slash success and use code success for 15% off.

496
00:30:17.517 --> 00:30:19.218
Odoo is a success story partner.

497
00:30:19.238 --> 00:30:21.259
And remember, that is pronounced O-do.

498
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:25.242
Now, I want to tell you something that happened to me recently that I think a lot of you will relate to.

499
00:30:25.522 --> 00:30:28.764
I was trying to send a quote to a client, and this should be simple, right?

500
00:30:28.884 --> 00:30:35.727
Except the pricing was in one tool, and the contact info was in another tool, and the last conversation that we had was in a third tool.

501
00:30:35.888 --> 00:30:39.730
And then I spent something like 20 minutes pulling it all together for one quote.

502
00:30:39.950 --> 00:30:40.010
And

503
00:30:43.732 --> 00:30:45.593
The problem is that they don't talk to each other.

504
00:30:45.794 --> 00:30:48.476
So you become the person connecting everything.

505
00:30:48.716 --> 00:30:49.977
You become the integration.

506
00:30:50.137 --> 00:30:53.920
You're the one copying numbers between tabs and making sure everything matches.

507
00:30:54.080 --> 00:30:55.761
But that's what Odoo fixes.

508
00:30:55.942 --> 00:30:58.143
It puts everything on one platform.

509
00:30:58.223 --> 00:31:07.331
So I'm talking accounting, invoicing, CRM, inventory, HR, project management, your website, e-commerce, e-signatures, over 45 apps, all connected.

510
00:31:07.471 --> 00:31:11.554
When something happens in one place, every other place already knows about it.

511
00:31:11.694 --> 00:31:14.356
So you're not updating three systems every time you close a deal.

512
00:31:14.756 --> 00:31:16.798
And the pricing is the part that surprised me.

513
00:31:16.818 --> 00:31:20.461
The first app is free for life, unlimited users, hosting included.

514
00:31:20.901 --> 00:31:23.624
One subscription after that unlocks everything else.

515
00:31:23.924 --> 00:31:28.167
So if you're spending your time connecting tools, instead of actually doing the work you have to do, go check it out.

516
00:31:28.447 --> 00:31:29.108
Links in the show notes.

517
00:31:29.368 --> 00:31:31.169
My fitness pal is a success story partner.

518
00:31:31.429 --> 00:31:35.250
People always ask me how I have time to track what I eat, pay attention to my nutrition.

519
00:31:35.270 --> 00:31:40.272
When I have a daily podcast, I have a weekly podcast, I have a newsletter, I run a marketing agency, my days are super full.

520
00:31:40.692 --> 00:31:43.213
But honestly, that's exactly why I have to do it.

521
00:31:43.233 --> 00:31:49.375
See, when you're running that many things, when you are a high performing person, you cannot afford to have your energy be inconsistent.

522
00:31:49.535 --> 00:31:53.856
Food is a foundation for everything, for energy, for sleep, for weight, for recovery, for performance.

523
00:31:54.316 --> 00:31:56.257
And the days when I'm not paying attention to what I'm eating,

524
00:31:56.737 --> 00:31:57.217
I feel it.

525
00:31:57.437 --> 00:31:59.978
The MyFitnessPal app makes tracking a non-issue.

526
00:32:00.058 --> 00:32:06.681
I can say what I ate, it has voice logging, or I can point my camera at a plate with meal scan and it figures out what's there.

527
00:32:06.721 --> 00:32:09.462
See, I'm not sitting around entering all my ingredients.

528
00:32:09.722 --> 00:32:10.962
The app does the work for me.

529
00:32:11.342 --> 00:32:17.605
It also connects to over 40 fitness apps and wearables, so my training, my steps, my nutrition, it all goes to one place.

530
00:32:18.065 --> 00:32:21.146
One picture of what's happening instead of having to piece everything together myself.

531
00:32:21.326 --> 00:32:22.566
The whole thing is frictionless.

532
00:32:22.587 --> 00:32:23.787
It takes seconds, not minutes.

533
00:32:24.007 --> 00:32:26.808
So do yourself a favor, start tracking what you eat.

534
00:32:26.828 --> 00:32:28.088
You are going to feel way better.

535
00:32:28.368 --> 00:32:34.230
Go to podcast.myfitnesspal.com and use code SCOTT, all uppercase, for 15% off MyFitnessPal premium.

536
00:32:34.490 --> 00:32:38.151
That's podcast.myfitnesspal.com, code SCOTT.

537
00:32:38.611 --> 00:32:47.133
So would your advice be for that person to, because I always say dip a toe in entrepreneurship, but I think that it's more stressful than most people realize.

538
00:32:47.793 --> 00:33:02.109
So would the advice be dip a toe into entrepreneurship or would it be quiet quit, which the way that I understand quiet quitting is like you're basically already checked out mentally and you're using like most of your energy to start applying for new jobs.

539
00:33:02.489 --> 00:33:03.711
Or is it more of a personal decision?

540
00:33:04.091 --> 00:33:05.853
Some people should do entrepreneurship.

541
00:33:06.033 --> 00:33:07.274
Some people should apply for another job.

542
00:33:07.595 --> 00:33:08.055
Some people.

543
00:33:09.195 --> 00:33:13.317
can be part entrepreneurs and make extra income while also getting another job.

544
00:33:13.397 --> 00:33:15.298
Like how do they, there's so many different options.

545
00:33:15.378 --> 00:33:19.999
And I think that also too many options creates paralysis and no action.

546
00:33:20.460 --> 00:33:23.741
So people see all these options and they're like, Oh shit, you know what?

547
00:33:23.781 --> 00:33:24.541
That's a lot of work.

548
00:33:24.561 --> 00:33:27.643
No matter which way I do it, I'm just going to stay here.

549
00:33:27.723 --> 00:33:29.823
Cause like the, what's the, what's the saying?

550
00:33:29.843 --> 00:33:30.444
It's like, um, yeah,

551
00:33:31.404 --> 00:33:37.746
the, oh, I can't write, it's like the, whatever, the bad thing that you know is better than like the bad, what's the saying, G?

552
00:33:37.766 --> 00:33:38.407
The devil you know.

553
00:33:38.427 --> 00:33:39.107
The devil you know.

554
00:33:39.127 --> 00:33:41.528
The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know, yeah.

555
00:33:41.568 --> 00:33:51.211
I think that's a reality for a lot of people, but that mindset keeps them in a career with a company that is not the best for them for years.

556
00:33:51.712 --> 00:33:57.014
And that could turn into like, you know, I'll stay here for another two, three years, and then it's their whole career.

557
00:33:57.414 --> 00:33:59.634
And they never, never make the uncomfortable move.

558
00:33:59.655 --> 00:34:00.855
So how do they navigate this whole thing?

559
00:34:01.477 --> 00:34:22.791
think make a change slowly so whether that's looking and start looking at other opportunities start thinking about if you were to freelance what that could look like start like dipping a toe in slowly and it is personal it's a very personal decision but I think just in terms of like hundreds of people I've worked with and coached over the years I've never seen anybody regret

560
00:34:25.273 --> 00:34:27.715
taking a risk and moving on from somewhere they hated.

561
00:34:28.075 --> 00:34:30.778
I've never seen that work out poorly.

562
00:34:30.798 --> 00:34:32.880
I think people are so afraid, right?

563
00:34:32.900 --> 00:34:35.582
It's like, yeah, the devil you know versus the devil you don't.

564
00:34:36.283 --> 00:34:43.869
But when you're so unhappy somewhere, you do actually have to make the change in order to see what can be possible.

565
00:34:44.049 --> 00:34:46.411
So you have to make that effort to do something different.

566
00:34:46.752 --> 00:34:48.013
Talk to me about quiet quitting.

567
00:34:48.693 --> 00:34:50.775
So this is not a new idea.

568
00:34:54.242 --> 00:34:59.166
There's a difference between Mosaic careers and looking for something new.

569
00:35:00.207 --> 00:35:02.669
So you get that 10, 20% pay bump.

570
00:35:04.190 --> 00:35:06.172
That's, in my mind, I don't mind that.

571
00:35:06.352 --> 00:35:09.855
I think that as somebody who hires people,

572
00:35:10.977 --> 00:35:21.403
I should, I, it's my job to understand your goals so that I'm not sort of blindsided by your career aspirations and ambitions.

573
00:35:21.483 --> 00:35:22.963
Like I should know this shit ahead of time.

574
00:35:22.983 --> 00:35:25.985
So if you want to make 20% more, it shouldn't come as a shock to me.

575
00:35:26.525 --> 00:35:30.567
And then we can have that conversation, but whether or not I can actually do that or I can help facilitate the next thing for you.

576
00:35:30.808 --> 00:35:31.188
Yeah.

577
00:35:33.775 --> 00:35:43.722
If somebody's not doing that for you, like, do you do this quiet quitting thing where you know, like you're checked out mentally, but you're just applying for other jobs?

578
00:35:43.762 --> 00:35:45.883
Is that is that ethical?

579
00:35:45.903 --> 00:35:48.865
Like, talk to me about this, because that's something that probably a lot of people struggle with.

580
00:35:49.285 --> 00:35:53.486
Quiet quitting is common in the current era.

581
00:35:54.346 --> 00:35:54.967
It's common.

582
00:35:55.007 --> 00:35:55.787
I would say it's common.

583
00:35:55.807 --> 00:35:56.687
It's pervasive.

584
00:35:56.807 --> 00:36:01.948
And I think it comes down to the difficulties of the economic reality that we live in.

585
00:36:02.389 --> 00:36:05.109
Burnout culture being extremely normalized.

586
00:36:06.029 --> 00:36:11.871
And Gen Z and millennials starting to challenge, again, the notion of like what's most important in life.

587
00:36:11.911 --> 00:36:15.132
Is it the job or is it a more holistic sense of being?

588
00:36:15.966 --> 00:36:22.808
Is there a better, because that would hurt the business if they're quiet, especially a smaller business.

589
00:36:23.328 --> 00:36:30.451
If somebody on my team right now is quiet quitting, I mean, that's like one sixth of our workforce is just checked out.

590
00:36:30.491 --> 00:36:36.532
So like, that's why I wanna maintain, but I mean, obviously it's easier when it's a small team with a podcast and a media company than with a huge team.

591
00:36:37.153 --> 00:36:41.314
But is that a good thing to do for your career?

592
00:36:41.714 --> 00:36:44.515
Like if you, and like maybe,

593
00:36:45.943 --> 00:36:53.551
The employee is judging the employer too quickly and thinking that they won't say yes to what I want.

594
00:36:54.071 --> 00:36:58.836
Like, I think self-advocacy should come first and communication should come first.

595
00:37:00.218 --> 00:37:06.004
Because if they just quite quit without having a good conversation with their boss or director, that's also not good.

596
00:37:06.420 --> 00:37:09.583
I find the most quiet quitting happens after that conversation has been had.

597
00:37:10.324 --> 00:37:15.188
So that conversation has happened and then you get shot down for the third time, let's say.

598
00:37:15.729 --> 00:37:16.490
That's when that kicks in.

599
00:37:16.510 --> 00:37:19.873
So what I would say, though, is flipping it to the employer perspective.

600
00:37:20.734 --> 00:37:26.519
I don't know that many employers that are tuned into this that are asking.

601
00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:28.762
Are employers asking their employees what?

602
00:37:29.302 --> 00:37:30.163
What's going on?

603
00:37:30.323 --> 00:37:31.304
Like, are you engaged?

604
00:37:31.584 --> 00:37:32.585
If not, why?

605
00:37:32.605 --> 00:37:37.129
You know, some people do self, you know, go the self-advocacy route and share and talk.

606
00:37:37.489 --> 00:37:44.035
But I do think employers can be more tapped in to what's going on with their employees and getting a deeper understanding of the why.

607
00:37:44.676 --> 00:37:45.737
So if you quiet quit

608
00:37:47.531 --> 00:37:48.932
How do you explain that to your next job?

609
00:37:49.072 --> 00:37:53.715
If they, if they, because they, I mean, I guess like people still check references and stuff like that every once in a while.

610
00:37:53.735 --> 00:37:54.575
They wonder why you left.

611
00:37:54.915 --> 00:37:57.657
So with that, like, I'm just thinking of somebody who would be going through that.

612
00:37:57.697 --> 00:38:05.442
Would that not stress me out if I quiet quit, tuned out, got a new job or I applied somewhere?

613
00:38:06.022 --> 00:38:07.783
Would it not hurt my chances of getting the job though?

614
00:38:08.003 --> 00:38:09.224
If I have like a bad reputation?

615
00:38:09.567 --> 00:38:10.948
Quiet quitting should be undetectable.

616
00:38:11.168 --> 00:38:14.031
So when you're quiet quitting, you're still delivering results.

617
00:38:14.051 --> 00:38:20.537
You're just not going above and beyond maybe the way that you would if you felt treated really well and respected by that company.

618
00:38:20.877 --> 00:38:23.059
So quiet quitting should be subtle.

619
00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:27.863
I'm more curious about the other end of the spectrum, too.

620
00:38:27.943 --> 00:38:35.229
When the company is doing the bare minimum, like the company is quiet quitting on you and they're basically not honoring their promises,

621
00:38:36.350 --> 00:38:42.476
When you were hired, they said you could get here by a certain date, you know, in a year where you're going to be making this much or we're going to.

622
00:38:43.197 --> 00:38:45.459
And it ends up being all lies.

623
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:48.141
Like catfishing.

624
00:38:48.482 --> 00:38:50.804
Is that a thing that companies do more and more now?

625
00:38:51.389 --> 00:38:52.849
Yeah, I think it's definitely common.

626
00:38:52.949 --> 00:38:55.210
I think it's more common that I think it's always been happening.

627
00:38:55.270 --> 00:38:58.411
I think it's more common now that employees will call it out and speak on it.

628
00:38:58.651 --> 00:39:00.731
You know, so it's it's I mean, go read about it.

629
00:39:00.811 --> 00:39:01.972
You can read about it on Break Room.

630
00:39:01.992 --> 00:39:04.532
You can read about it on wherever you want to go online and read about it.

631
00:39:04.552 --> 00:39:06.073
Reddit, Discord.

632
00:39:06.093 --> 00:39:08.273
Stories are being told, you know, things are being discussed.

633
00:39:08.313 --> 00:39:12.494
I think we're just in an era where people are willing to call it out and talk about it more.

634
00:39:12.514 --> 00:39:14.315
But I think it's been happening.

635
00:39:14.915 --> 00:39:17.562
So how do you stop yourself from getting into that company in the first place?

636
00:39:17.583 --> 00:39:22.877
What are the ways, is there a way to like vet them when they're hiring you to make sure you don't end up in a shitty situation?

637
00:39:23.324 --> 00:39:31.930
There's definitely questions you can ask in the interview process to determine values alignment, but nothing can really prepare you for a bait and switch, a catfish.

638
00:39:32.130 --> 00:39:33.531
I think it happens over time also.

639
00:39:33.571 --> 00:39:35.553
This is another reason I think why people are jaw-popping.

640
00:39:35.573 --> 00:39:40.236
Because when you stay at a company for a long period of time, you start to see the cracks.

641
00:39:40.356 --> 00:39:43.198
You start to see, you know, what's not working and what's working.

642
00:39:43.298 --> 00:39:49.363
You start to see, okay, they're keeping leadership in their roles for really long periods of time and it's not growing and it's not innovating.

643
00:39:49.383 --> 00:39:49.583
Yeah.

644
00:39:50.232 --> 00:40:01.484
And that's when that's when you got to start taking action, making moves, advocating for yourself, marketing yourself, building your brand as a professional inside the company as the company.

645
00:40:01.524 --> 00:40:05.388
And then like do that uncomfortable thing if need be and go somewhere where you're actually valued.

646
00:40:06.929 --> 00:40:08.531
That's it's it's it's tough.

647
00:40:08.651 --> 00:40:09.472
It's very tough.

648
00:40:09.858 --> 00:40:10.198
It's tough.

649
00:40:10.258 --> 00:40:15.861
It puts all the onus on you, right, as an employee to like build a brand, know your strengths, get out.

650
00:40:16.161 --> 00:40:19.282
It's a lot harder than it used to be, like to the point that you were bringing up earlier.

651
00:40:19.322 --> 00:40:21.843
Like it used to be very, very simple, cut and dry.

652
00:40:22.083 --> 00:40:24.244
Nowadays, it's really challenging and complex.

653
00:40:25.102 --> 00:40:35.113
I think that, and tell me if I'm right or wrong, I think that all people should experience some version of entrepreneurship because I think it'll make them a better employee.

654
00:40:35.193 --> 00:40:38.217
And I think that it'll make life less stressful for them.

655
00:40:38.297 --> 00:40:43.883
So even if they don't want to build a business, I don't think it's a bad thing to like...

656
00:40:45.484 --> 00:40:57.735
take whatever you're good at and then like consult and sell it to the market and see, because I think that confidence in being able to make money yourself and not being completely reliant makes you a stronger employee.

657
00:40:58.877 --> 00:41:00.238
Yes, I would agree with that.

658
00:41:00.378 --> 00:41:03.059
And I think entrepreneurship has a broad definition.

659
00:41:03.239 --> 00:41:05.259
You know, it's not only what people think it is.

660
00:41:05.319 --> 00:41:07.740
It's not just you have to be a founder.

661
00:41:07.940 --> 00:41:12.862
You have to be Scott hosting a podcast like you don't it doesn't have to be that way.

662
00:41:12.882 --> 00:41:16.463
I started quite small on my entrepreneurship journey.

663
00:41:16.524 --> 00:41:19.925
You know, just post a video, claim a handle.

664
00:41:20.825 --> 00:41:23.747
Show up in your community and speak on something you care about.

665
00:41:23.967 --> 00:41:27.429
I think entrepreneurship can look a variety of different ways.

666
00:41:27.789 --> 00:41:33.372
It's really just about using your strengths and elevating your platform.

667
00:41:33.912 --> 00:41:34.853
What about yourself?

668
00:41:34.893 --> 00:41:39.915
You felt compelled to advocate for people that are trying to navigate careers.

669
00:41:40.956 --> 00:41:41.756
What happened to you?

670
00:41:41.796 --> 00:41:42.557
Who hurt you then?

671
00:41:44.393 --> 00:41:50.920
Well, yeah, I think like a lot of entrepreneurs, my business was born out of frustration with the system.

672
00:41:51.220 --> 00:41:57.607
Yeah, I was very frustrated with what I would consider a values mismatch between me and the companies I was working for.

673
00:41:57.927 --> 00:41:59.729
You know, they would say their values would be one thing.

674
00:41:59.829 --> 00:42:01.030
I would find out it's something else.

675
00:42:01.050 --> 00:42:02.912
The thing we're talking about right now is you were living it.

676
00:42:03.072 --> 00:42:03.693
I was living that.

677
00:42:03.793 --> 00:42:04.694
Yes, I was living that.

678
00:42:04.794 --> 00:42:08.778
And that made it hard to get out of bed every day and go to work and show up for my team.

679
00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:18.108
So what I ended up doing while I was still in the job was, and we alluded to this earlier in the conversation, was how can I make this job work for me right now?

680
00:42:18.958 --> 00:42:28.301
Even though it's difficult, even though there's a values mismatch, even though I don't love it, how can I make it work for me and make it something that I can be excited about doing somewhat?

681
00:42:28.881 --> 00:42:30.902
And so that for me was I'm in a people leadership role.

682
00:42:31.302 --> 00:42:32.382
That's where I'm comfortable.

683
00:42:32.702 --> 00:42:34.943
So I was like, I'm going to promote every woman on my team before I leave.

684
00:42:35.553 --> 00:42:36.053
And I did that.

685
00:42:36.073 --> 00:42:36.694
And I did that.

686
00:42:36.774 --> 00:42:37.715
I created new roles.

687
00:42:37.755 --> 00:42:38.815
I worked with my team members.

688
00:42:38.875 --> 00:42:43.179
I said, all right, let's base these new roles on your individual strengths and the needs of the business.

689
00:42:43.259 --> 00:42:46.541
Where that intersection lies, we're going to craft these positions and I'm going to promote everybody.

690
00:42:46.981 --> 00:42:47.342
And I did.

691
00:42:47.362 --> 00:42:50.264
I promoted everybody on my team and that kept me motivated to continue.

692
00:42:50.564 --> 00:42:52.305
So this is like find something.

693
00:42:52.325 --> 00:42:53.266
We talked about this before.

694
00:42:53.746 --> 00:42:57.129
When you're miserable in a job, you can usually find something to cling to.

695
00:42:57.909 --> 00:42:59.831
But I'm not saying cling to that and stay forever.

696
00:43:00.311 --> 00:43:04.314
Find something where you can make an impact and you can be happy and you can elevate your resume and then leave.

697
00:43:04.554 --> 00:43:05.074
I love this.

698
00:43:05.134 --> 00:43:08.996
So it's like, life is not so like black and white binary.

699
00:43:09.376 --> 00:43:10.816
It's like, you know where you got to go.

700
00:43:11.097 --> 00:43:13.457
You've got to do things to make your situation better.

701
00:43:13.818 --> 00:43:17.639
But in the meantime, like make the best of where you're at.

702
00:43:18.019 --> 00:43:20.240
And like you almost, you almost like, I like it.

703
00:43:20.260 --> 00:43:23.981
You like forced your values on this company that was disrespecting you.

704
00:43:24.542 --> 00:43:28.243
You're like, F you guys, I'm going to make the best situation for everybody around me.

705
00:43:28.503 --> 00:43:30.764
And I'm not going to be here in like two years from now.

706
00:43:30.824 --> 00:43:32.585
But in the meantime, I'm going to like,

707
00:43:33.855 --> 00:43:35.616
What I'm doing is what you should be doing, but F you.

708
00:43:35.636 --> 00:43:38.018
If you're not going to do it, I'm going to do it for myself in this environment.

709
00:43:38.439 --> 00:43:39.079
I made them better.

710
00:43:39.499 --> 00:43:40.080
I made them better.

711
00:43:40.100 --> 00:43:41.961
That's all you got to do.

712
00:43:42.061 --> 00:43:44.303
Everywhere you go, leave the place better than you found it, right?

713
00:43:44.483 --> 00:43:47.445
Okay, let me tell you a story related to what we were just saying.

714
00:43:48.306 --> 00:44:00.375
So I noticed that in my corporate roles, there was a trajectory and a pattern of my colleagues, my best friends in the work, really underselling themselves and not knowing the value that they brought to the team.

715
00:44:00.395 --> 00:44:02.177
They were just keeping their head above water, basically.

716
00:44:02.897 --> 00:44:12.961
So after observing this over time, I realized there's a gap between folks understanding what they bring to the table and owning that.

717
00:44:13.381 --> 00:44:14.862
So how do we bridge that gap?

718
00:44:15.302 --> 00:44:21.705
How do we help people really understand what their strengths are and then cultivate those so that way they can land in a job that values those strengths?

719
00:44:22.425 --> 00:44:38.474
So fast forward a couple of years later, this is the work that I do now at ZipRecruiter is helping helping job seekers, number one, identify their core strengths, transform their resumes to speak to those specific strengths and then land a role that pays money for those strengths.

720
00:44:39.094 --> 00:44:41.736
So that is really at the heart of the work that I do.

721
00:44:41.816 --> 00:44:47.139
And I've had multiple job seekers over the past couple of weeks come in with similar resumes.

722
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:50.642
Very generic, sort of downplaying their strengths.

723
00:44:50.822 --> 00:45:00.468
And then when I sit on Zoom with them and have a conversation, I understand, wow, you actually have crazy interpersonal skills, massive emotional intelligence, amazing.

724
00:45:00.728 --> 00:45:04.532
A history of transforming the organizations you work at by implementing technology.

725
00:45:04.953 --> 00:45:11.720
And then we can actually tell a story on their resume that's really powerful about what their strengths are and how they transform businesses.

726
00:45:12.200 --> 00:45:14.583
And they leave the sessions with me amazed.

727
00:45:14.643 --> 00:45:16.405
I had somebody cry recently in a session.

728
00:45:16.545 --> 00:45:21.450
Because you're acting like this therapist that's showing them how incredible they are.

729
00:45:21.630 --> 00:45:22.030
Exactly.

730
00:45:22.070 --> 00:45:23.171
They can't do that for themselves.

731
00:45:23.371 --> 00:45:24.632
I can't do that for myself sometimes.

732
00:45:24.672 --> 00:45:26.274
It's really difficult to do that for yourself.

733
00:45:26.374 --> 00:45:36.282
But to have somebody else shine the light on you and speak to your strengths in a powerful, beautiful, compelling way is what people need right now to have the confidence to land the next opportunity.

734
00:45:36.302 --> 00:45:40.785
Because they're so miserable maybe in their job and their boss isn't recognizing their strengths.

735
00:45:41.306 --> 00:45:44.908
So I'm the person that can come in and translate that for them and change their perspective.

736
00:45:46.229 --> 00:45:50.573
And the sessions are, and these job seeker sessions, by the way, with me are free right now.

737
00:45:51.558 --> 00:45:52.119
Just reminded me.

738
00:45:52.339 --> 00:45:52.519
Yeah.

739
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:53.740
Okay.

740
00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:55.941
Well, we will fill up your calendar.

741
00:45:57.002 --> 00:45:58.123
Good luck.

742
00:45:58.143 --> 00:45:59.924
Good luck managing all those Zoom calls.

743
00:45:59.984 --> 00:46:08.371
But in all seriousness, why do people have such a hard time understanding what they're so good at and advocating for themselves?

744
00:46:08.941 --> 00:46:11.662
Yeah, I think this is slowly starting to change.

745
00:46:12.162 --> 00:46:19.664
But I think right now we just haven't been brought up in a society that tells us to own and celebrate our strengths.

746
00:46:20.184 --> 00:46:22.485
I think it's more about fit yourself in a box.

747
00:46:23.025 --> 00:46:24.165
Okay, you want to do this career?

748
00:46:24.185 --> 00:46:25.246
This is your dream career?

749
00:46:25.866 --> 00:46:26.986
Figure out how to do it.

750
00:46:27.526 --> 00:46:29.887
Instead, I think we need the opposite perspective.

751
00:46:30.087 --> 00:46:31.107
Start with your strengths.

752
00:46:31.727 --> 00:46:32.868
Start with what you're good at.

753
00:46:33.548 --> 00:46:37.089
Build your ideal life around that and find a career that fits into that.

754
00:46:37.750 --> 00:46:38.270
I love this.

755
00:46:38.811 --> 00:46:51.859
I think just taking it a step further, I think the reason why we fall into careers that are not focused on our strength is because, again, sorry, mom and dad for bringing you back up into the podcast.

756
00:46:51.899 --> 00:46:58.303
But well-meaning parents, they have a version of life that they think will make you happy.

757
00:46:59.592 --> 00:47:01.596
if you get this job, we'll be proud of you.

758
00:47:01.777 --> 00:47:05.224
Be a doctor, be an engineer, be a lawyer, right?

759
00:47:06.226 --> 00:47:08.491
And it could work out.

760
00:47:08.671 --> 00:47:09.433
It could not work out.

761
00:47:09.593 --> 00:47:09.893
But then,

762
00:47:10.753 --> 00:47:14.676
What you think you want as a career is actually not what you want.

763
00:47:15.117 --> 00:47:16.278
It's what your parents wanted.

764
00:47:16.378 --> 00:47:18.179
It's what your guidance counselor said would be a good career.

765
00:47:18.499 --> 00:47:20.801
It's all these people that influence you.

766
00:47:21.282 --> 00:47:28.347
And you wake up, you know, one day when you're 35, 40, and your whole life is actually not even what you wanted.

767
00:47:28.768 --> 00:47:31.110
It's what all the people around you wanted from a very young age.

768
00:47:31.270 --> 00:47:34.953
And I think that that creates a ton of stress, anxiety, depression.

769
00:47:35.824 --> 00:47:39.305
You're speaking to the reality that most millennials currently face.

770
00:47:39.525 --> 00:47:43.206
Like my parents didn't help me figure out my strengths.

771
00:47:43.526 --> 00:47:47.747
I think they were just busy trying to raise me, go to work, put food on the table.

772
00:47:47.787 --> 00:47:50.548
Like they didn't necessarily encourage me to self-reflect.

773
00:47:50.608 --> 00:47:51.428
They don't know to.

774
00:47:51.928 --> 00:47:52.889
They just want the best for you.

775
00:47:53.149 --> 00:48:00.011
So if they had a career and it paid the bills and it got the house and it provided a comfortable upbringing, they're like, well, it worked for me.

776
00:48:00.331 --> 00:48:04.012
That's that's that's my that's that is my perception of reality.

777
00:48:04.212 --> 00:48:04.472
Yes.

778
00:48:05.172 --> 00:48:06.793
So hopefully it works for you.

779
00:48:07.233 --> 00:48:07.793
Just do this.

780
00:48:08.614 --> 00:48:08.954
I don't know.

781
00:48:09.394 --> 00:48:09.774
Strength?

782
00:48:09.814 --> 00:48:10.715
What do you mean strength?

783
00:48:10.735 --> 00:48:12.075
Just go become a doctor.

784
00:48:12.095 --> 00:48:13.496
You can afford the bills.

785
00:48:13.756 --> 00:48:14.457
Forget strengths.

786
00:48:14.877 --> 00:48:20.119
But I think that that's incorrect because when you do play to your strengths, you do make more money.

787
00:48:21.580 --> 00:48:22.420
You enjoy what you do.

788
00:48:22.981 --> 00:48:23.501
And you're happier.

789
00:48:24.130 --> 00:48:26.231
Which is ultimately like, that's what we're in it for.

790
00:48:26.251 --> 00:48:28.492
Like, I can't imagine doing something.

791
00:48:28.892 --> 00:48:32.834
I was talking to Jackie before we pressed record.

792
00:48:33.655 --> 00:48:37.516
And we're just talking about, you know, she's asking like, how long have you been doing this?

793
00:48:37.536 --> 00:48:38.297
Like, what keeps you going?

794
00:48:38.317 --> 00:48:39.778
I'm like, I just love it.

795
00:48:40.258 --> 00:48:41.338
Like, I don't know how to describe.

796
00:48:41.358 --> 00:48:41.979
I just love it.

797
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:44.700
And don't get me wrong.

798
00:48:46.061 --> 00:48:50.224
Following your passion, I think you have an opinion on following your passion too, which I actually want to unpack.

799
00:48:50.244 --> 00:48:54.267
But following your passion, I don't think is even the best advice for me personally.

800
00:48:54.287 --> 00:49:02.573
Because when I do follow my passion, it doesn't mean that all the work is going to be fun.

801
00:49:03.674 --> 00:49:08.837
So even this podcast, the fun part of this podcast is sitting down with you having a conversation.

802
00:49:10.018 --> 00:49:12.759
that is like an hour, hour and a half of my life.

803
00:49:13.319 --> 00:49:19.720
You know what the other 22.5 hours in a day is outside of sleep?

804
00:49:20.200 --> 00:49:22.040
Not passionate driven work.

805
00:49:22.100 --> 00:49:23.181
It's tiring people.

806
00:49:23.241 --> 00:49:25.021
It's talking to advertisers.

807
00:49:25.081 --> 00:49:26.701
It's reviewing videos.

808
00:49:26.761 --> 00:49:27.721
It's P&L.

809
00:49:27.821 --> 00:49:29.642
It's all the other guys.

810
00:49:29.662 --> 00:49:30.982
It's all the non-fun stuff.

811
00:49:31.522 --> 00:49:35.843
So I think that at least have a bit of your life that lights you up.

812
00:49:37.142 --> 00:49:43.688
I think that a lot of people that we're talking to who are in careers who are listening to this, 0% of their work life lights them up.

813
00:49:44.089 --> 00:49:45.290
And I think that's not correct.

814
00:49:45.530 --> 00:49:49.894
I need like 5% of your work life at least to light you up a little bit.

815
00:49:53.598 --> 00:49:56.300
What do you feel about following your passion when it comes to a career?

816
00:49:56.461 --> 00:49:59.744
And is passion the same as what you're good at?

817
00:50:00.509 --> 00:50:01.170
Not always.

818
00:50:02.030 --> 00:50:02.691
It can be.

819
00:50:02.811 --> 00:50:04.493
Sometimes your passion is what you're good at.

820
00:50:04.813 --> 00:50:05.794
Sometimes it isn't.

821
00:50:06.995 --> 00:50:15.683
But I think it is important to find one aspect of the work that you are passionate about, whether that's like for me, the development piece, developing others.

822
00:50:15.783 --> 00:50:17.905
I realized like, wait, I'm really passionate about

823
00:50:18.545 --> 00:50:24.726
developing other people and honing in on their strengths and helping them with their areas where they want to grow in.

824
00:50:25.786 --> 00:50:34.708
So I think I think it's really more about, again, leaning into your strengths and finding if you can find where your strengths and your passion intersect, that's huge.

825
00:50:34.808 --> 00:50:37.709
If you can forge an opportunity there.

826
00:50:37.729 --> 00:50:43.270
But to your point, you're not always going to be enjoying the work 100 percent of the time because there's aspects that are not.

827
00:50:43.330 --> 00:50:44.050
What was your passion?

828
00:50:44.090 --> 00:50:45.190
What's your what are you passionate about?

829
00:50:45.545 --> 00:50:51.530
I genuinely love teaching people so that life is a little bit less confusing and stressful.

830
00:50:52.531 --> 00:50:54.312
And this is just the way that I do that.

831
00:50:54.712 --> 00:50:55.533
I used to do it in other ways.

832
00:50:55.573 --> 00:50:57.054
I used to coach tennis when I was really young.

833
00:50:57.074 --> 00:51:03.920
And I love when you've learned something in your life and you probably have the same passion because it's what you do for a living too.

834
00:51:05.341 --> 00:51:13.227
And like a little bit of what you figured out can make someone's life like just so much better in a very short period of time because you've already gone through the bullshit.

835
00:51:15.121 --> 00:51:30.129
That to me is, and I actually believe that if, you know, if I think most people that get a lot of fulfillment out of like giving back and teaching, it's just, I'm, I'm very bullish on architecting a life that, you know, fits my passion and my core strengths and my skills.

836
00:51:30.589 --> 00:51:33.350
So I didn't just want to do it casually.

837
00:51:33.410 --> 00:51:34.871
I wanted to do it professionally.

838
00:51:36.011 --> 00:51:42.615
But yeah, that's, but, but all at the same time, a lot of the work, even though I have a passion for this, a lot of the work is not fun.

839
00:51:43.562 --> 00:51:43.802
Sure.

840
00:51:45.124 --> 00:51:51.890
You know, I interviewed Guy Kawasaki and we were talking about passion and he had such a funny analogy.

841
00:51:52.211 --> 00:51:56.955
He was saying, don't follow your passion, like follow what you're good at, kind of like what you said.

842
00:51:57.536 --> 00:51:58.977
But then the passion comes anyways.

843
00:51:59.037 --> 00:51:59.678
And he's like, trust.

844
00:52:00.279 --> 00:52:09.751
If I make $100 million selling dog food, I'm not passionate about dogs or dog food, but I will find a way to become passionate about it if I build a business is making a ton of money.

845
00:52:10.232 --> 00:52:15.419
I think that when you follow your, this is, you know, obviously if you're starting a business and you're an entrepreneur, but in a career perspective,

846
00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:21.203
If you are starting a career and you're good at the thing, you'll make a ton of money.

847
00:52:21.283 --> 00:52:22.784
You'll find a ton of enjoyment in it.

848
00:52:22.924 --> 00:52:24.565
It won't feel like friction all the time.

849
00:52:25.226 --> 00:52:33.992
And it will just, it will just, I don't know, it'll feel just that much easier than if you're stuck in something that you really hate, that you're not good at.

850
00:52:34.672 --> 00:52:37.114
You can still figure it out, but it's just not the way to live your life.

851
00:52:37.957 --> 00:52:38.357
Totally.

852
00:52:39.038 --> 00:52:42.000
And it leaves room for passions outside of work, too.

853
00:52:42.080 --> 00:52:48.764
Like when you have a job that you enjoy, it lets you enjoy your outside of work hobbies and passions even more.

854
00:52:49.584 --> 00:52:50.425
I want to talk about AI.

855
00:52:50.445 --> 00:52:51.766
I want to talk about the future of work.

856
00:52:51.786 --> 00:52:54.768
So the obvious question is...

857
00:52:56.810 --> 00:52:59.856
Well, I think AI is eating a lot of entry-level jobs.

858
00:53:01.980 --> 00:53:09.034
What happens to people who are just starting out when the majority of jobs that AI can do are these entry-level jobs?

859
00:53:10.192 --> 00:53:13.693
So it's not as much that AI is eliminating jobs.

860
00:53:13.833 --> 00:53:15.954
It is changing the nature of work.

861
00:53:16.054 --> 00:53:20.415
It is changing what roles look like, whether that's entry level, mid-level, senior level.

862
00:53:20.495 --> 00:53:24.516
AI is changing the way that we work and is changing role requirements.

863
00:53:25.596 --> 00:53:35.119
So we have some data from Zip that is showing us that around 75% of employers now deem AI skills a requirement for a role.

864
00:53:35.899 --> 00:53:38.240
So that changes

865
00:53:39.220 --> 00:53:42.463
The job search, that changes interviews.

866
00:53:42.704 --> 00:53:44.386
It changes everything.

867
00:53:45.326 --> 00:53:51.313
And what's hard about it is it's still evolving on an ongoing daily basis.

868
00:53:51.433 --> 00:53:56.378
The way that companies use it, the way that companies expect you to use it.

869
00:53:57.359 --> 00:53:59.742
And companies also are not providing information.

870
00:54:00.182 --> 00:54:01.584
training internally.

871
00:54:01.684 --> 00:54:06.571
So they're expecting you to come in with the knowledge already with how to use it in the role.

872
00:54:07.012 --> 00:54:09.976
Some companies are providing training on it, but the numbers are low.

873
00:54:09.996 --> 00:54:15.104
I believe it's around 22% of companies are providing training in-house for AI on the job.

874
00:54:15.623 --> 00:54:17.304
HubSpot is a success story partner.

875
00:54:17.464 --> 00:54:22.307
Now, every entrepreneur, founder, CEOs listening right now needs to pay attention.

876
00:54:22.647 --> 00:54:23.387
I have a question for you.

877
00:54:23.708 --> 00:54:31.332
When a buyer asks AI for a solution or a product that your business sells, does your business come up?

878
00:54:31.612 --> 00:54:34.454
The answer is that most companies have no idea.

879
00:54:34.774 --> 00:54:48.582
They don't know if their name shows up in any of the AI tools, chat, perplexity, Claude, and by the time they find out, they have lost tons of traffic and tons of deals to someone who did show up.

880
00:54:48.962 --> 00:54:50.483
HubSpot AEO.

881
00:54:50.964 --> 00:54:58.248
It helps you show up in those moments with the right answers that your customers and your buyers are looking for when they go type in a question.

882
00:54:58.488 --> 00:54:59.669
It's before the first click.

883
00:54:59.729 --> 00:55:02.490
It's before they fill out some form on your website.

884
00:55:02.991 --> 00:55:06.773
That is the moment that HubSpot AEO is built for.

885
00:55:07.153 --> 00:55:12.857
So if you want your company to show up in AI searches when your customer is looking, check out HubSpot.com.

886
00:55:13.197 --> 00:55:16.899
They are the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.

887
00:55:17.199 --> 00:55:18.600
NetSuite is a success story partner.

888
00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:20.321
Now you probably know NetSuite already.

889
00:55:20.341 --> 00:55:24.064
It's a software that a ton of companies use to basically manage everything.

890
00:55:24.104 --> 00:55:27.767
Their finances, their inventory, their HR, it's just all in one place.

891
00:55:27.987 --> 00:55:29.989
Now they just came out with NetSuite Next.

892
00:55:30.189 --> 00:55:32.891
This is the AI version of all of that.

893
00:55:32.911 --> 00:55:37.534
So now you can ask it a question the way you'd ask someone on your team who just knows everything about your business.

894
00:55:37.875 --> 00:55:38.775
It gives you the answer.

895
00:55:39.056 --> 00:55:44.780
It keeps you up to date on all the things you need to know about your company and your business without you having to go digging for them.

896
00:55:44.980 --> 00:55:50.605
And it has these AI agents that take care of all the routine work in your business that eats up everybody's day.

897
00:55:50.885 --> 00:55:55.709
Now, the bigger picture here is that AI is starting to change how teams actually work together.

898
00:55:56.009 --> 00:55:59.773
It's happening incredibly fast and most companies don't have a plan for it.

899
00:56:00.033 --> 00:56:00.694
NetSuite does.

900
00:56:00.974 --> 00:56:06.478
They have a free guide called Aligning for the Agentic Era, how AI is changing everyday work.

901
00:56:06.619 --> 00:56:11.643
It breaks down how AI could reshape the way your whole organization works and what your business should be doing to get ahead of it.

902
00:56:11.823 --> 00:56:14.526
If I needed a tool like NetSuite, it's what I'd use and you should too.

903
00:56:14.807 --> 00:56:23.777
So if your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get our free business guide, Aligning for the Agentic Era, How AI is Changing Everyday Work at netsuite.com slash Scott Clary.

904
00:56:24.057 --> 00:56:27.762
The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash Scott Clary.

905
00:56:28.022 --> 00:56:30.445
That's netsuite.com slash Scott Clary.

906
00:56:30.525 --> 00:56:31.826
Monarch is a success story partner.

907
00:56:31.926 --> 00:56:32.646
Now, quick question.

908
00:56:32.786 --> 00:56:34.747
Do you know where your money went last month?

909
00:56:34.847 --> 00:56:36.587
Not roughly, but exactly.

910
00:56:36.687 --> 00:56:37.408
And most people don't.

911
00:56:37.628 --> 00:56:38.548
And I didn't for years.

912
00:56:38.608 --> 00:56:40.729
And that is most of our money stories, right?

913
00:56:40.809 --> 00:56:44.550
When we first start our career, we have one income and one account, and you can kind of wing it.

914
00:56:44.771 --> 00:56:52.674
But once you're running businesses, once you're investing, once you're carrying 50 different subscriptions that you stop paying attention to, winging it gets super expensive.

915
00:56:52.874 --> 00:56:53.894
Monarch fixed that for me.

916
00:56:53.974 --> 00:56:55.975
It is the personal finance app that tracks

917
00:56:56.295 --> 00:56:56.716
everything.

918
00:56:56.776 --> 00:57:00.842
So that means accounts, investments, savings goals, spending all on one screen.

919
00:57:00.962 --> 00:57:04.668
The first week I had it, it fired recurring charges I've been paying for months without realizing.

920
00:57:04.768 --> 00:57:10.517
And every single week, the AI recap tells me if spending spiked, if my net worth moved, and what bills are coming.

921
00:57:10.537 --> 00:57:11.459
And I can just ask it, hey,

922
00:57:11.599 --> 00:57:13.740
Can I afford this trip without touching my savings?

923
00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:16.922
And I can get a real answer based on my actual numbers.

924
00:57:17.022 --> 00:57:19.183
It is a financial advisor in your pocket.

925
00:57:19.444 --> 00:57:21.305
It costs less than an hour with a real one.

926
00:57:21.445 --> 00:57:23.226
So write your own money story with Monarch.

927
00:57:23.446 --> 00:57:28.029
Use code success at monarch.com and get your first year of Monarch Core half off at just $50.

928
00:57:28.309 --> 00:57:31.791
That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code success.

929
00:57:32.371 --> 00:57:34.553
So what does that mean for somebody coming out of college then?

930
00:57:34.853 --> 00:57:38.956
So entry-level job is, you said the definition of job change.

931
00:57:38.976 --> 00:57:44.059
So the new entry-level job is skill plus AI competency.

932
00:57:46.461 --> 00:57:49.543
So how does the person prep for that entry-level job?

933
00:57:50.559 --> 00:58:00.823
So to be prepared, you need to play around and use it on your own, whether you've used it in college or you use it in part time jobs or in your own freelance projects.

934
00:58:01.244 --> 00:58:04.265
You need to play around and use it so that way you can speak to outcomes.

935
00:58:04.725 --> 00:58:08.367
Companies don't just want to know, like, I know Claude, I know Gemini.

936
00:58:08.967 --> 00:58:09.808
It's not about the tool.

937
00:58:09.828 --> 00:58:12.510
It's about the outcomes you generate using those tools.

938
00:58:12.750 --> 00:58:18.875
And I encourage job seekers when they're editing their resumes to showcase those outcomes because then you're speaking the employer's language.

939
00:58:19.115 --> 00:58:32.405
So if you can say, I know how to automate workflows, I know how to speed up a process so that way I can free up my time to innovate and create new ideas for how to get more inbound leads if you're a salesperson, for example.

940
00:58:32.886 --> 00:58:35.788
So it's about the outcomes, not necessarily about the tool itself.

941
00:58:36.088 --> 00:58:45.293
So a level of competency is required, but it's positioning and marketing yourself differently as somebody who understands how to use the tools to get the outcomes.

942
00:58:45.834 --> 00:58:51.657
So it's not like entry-level jobs are disappearing completely because they still need somebody in that role.

943
00:58:51.677 --> 00:58:55.039
A good framework for AI that I heard is a 20-60-20 framework, meaning...

944
00:59:00.182 --> 00:59:08.110
if you're going to use AI, the first 20% of the project is human input, is prompting, is telling AI exactly what you want.

945
00:59:08.150 --> 00:59:09.672
60% is like the AI doing the work.

946
00:59:09.732 --> 00:59:13.796
And then the 20% on the backend is you reviewing the work and making sure that it's actually good.

947
00:59:14.997 --> 00:59:17.619
That's sort of a very safe way to use AI.

948
00:59:17.639 --> 00:59:19.361
I think that's how most companies are using it now.

949
00:59:19.441 --> 00:59:23.325
I actually don't think that people are being completely replaced with AI.

950
00:59:23.385 --> 00:59:23.866
I think that

951
00:59:24.772 --> 00:59:27.936
People that, again, don't know how to use AI are going to be replaced.

952
00:59:28.377 --> 00:59:39.411
So for that job seeker, it's about marketing and branding themselves as somebody who's competent on how to use AI, not just how to log into ChatGPT, but how to use AI to affect the business outcome.

953
00:59:39.431 --> 00:59:40.012
Yeah.

954
00:59:40.372 --> 00:59:42.794
And that's literally what you put on your resume.

955
00:59:42.934 --> 00:59:46.237
That's what you put in your, do people still do CVs?

956
00:59:47.238 --> 00:59:48.099
Cover letters, excuse me.

957
00:59:48.159 --> 00:59:49.660
Only if the employer requests it.

958
00:59:50.100 --> 00:59:52.182
But in the resume, that's what you're putting in your resume.

959
00:59:52.422 --> 00:59:53.063
Yes, correct.

960
00:59:53.423 --> 00:59:54.924
Did you, you have data?

961
00:59:55.505 --> 00:59:55.785
Yes.

962
00:59:56.025 --> 01:00:00.389
I want to pull some data about AI because it's very interesting.

963
01:00:00.429 --> 01:00:03.932
So this is stuff that ZipRecruiter has put together?

964
01:00:04.402 --> 01:00:09.704
Yes, this is some recent data from ZipRecruiter survey of employers regarding AI in the workplace.

965
01:00:09.724 --> 01:00:11.844
And I find this really fascinating.

966
01:00:12.504 --> 01:00:23.708
So as employers increase their demand for job seekers to have AI skills, at the same time that that's happening, they're also elevating the demand for the human skills that they require.

967
01:00:24.168 --> 01:00:26.609
So whereas in the past you might see on a resume...

968
01:00:27.509 --> 01:00:30.171
Interpersonal skills, empathy, communication.

969
01:00:30.432 --> 01:00:32.153
That is not enough anymore.

970
01:00:32.494 --> 01:00:39.820
What employers want right now from a human standpoint are three things, critical thinking, judgment and decision making and creativity.

971
01:00:40.420 --> 01:00:44.544
And what I find fascinating about that is those are counterpoints to A.I.

972
01:00:44.524 --> 01:00:45.085
's weak spots.

973
01:00:45.685 --> 01:00:48.087
So AI does not do critical thinking.

974
01:00:48.307 --> 01:00:51.789
AI cannot use judgment or ethics or make decisions.

975
01:00:51.929 --> 01:00:52.830
And AI is not creative.

976
01:00:53.250 --> 01:01:02.637
So in turn, with this big rise of AI requirements, we're also seeing an elevation in the human skills that employers want to see.

977
01:01:03.057 --> 01:01:11.983
So I think it's almost better to look at it that way when you're editing your resume, when you're thinking about your narrative and your story that you want to tell a company, your brand, your...

978
01:01:12.865 --> 01:01:16.052
is what advanced human skills do you have?

979
01:01:16.192 --> 01:01:20.361
And really putting a pinpoint and a label on those because that is highly desired by employers.

980
01:01:20.782 --> 01:01:21.885
How do you show those though?

981
01:01:22.716 --> 01:01:24.918
There's a lot of different ways you can showcase those.

982
01:01:24.998 --> 01:01:30.422
Like, for example, if you're somebody who promotes others, you're using those are those are advanced human skills.

983
01:01:31.103 --> 01:01:32.884
Sales, that's persuasive communication.

984
01:01:32.904 --> 01:01:34.045
That's an advanced human skill.

985
01:01:34.586 --> 01:01:41.111
If you're somebody who, you know, is like a team trainer, a team leader, that's training is an advanced skill set.

986
01:01:41.171 --> 01:01:43.914
There's plenty of human skills to articulate on your resume.

987
01:01:43.934 --> 01:01:45.074
I think people overlook it.

988
01:01:45.355 --> 01:01:48.778
Yeah, I was going to say, I think I think that people just do these things.

989
01:01:49.638 --> 01:01:53.041
And they don't realize how valuable it is to articulate that they do these things.

990
01:01:53.181 --> 01:01:53.642
Correct.

991
01:01:54.002 --> 01:01:55.384
And you know who does these things really well?

992
01:01:55.484 --> 01:01:55.844
Women.

993
01:01:56.064 --> 01:01:59.928
Women are really good at the soft skills, the emotional labor.

994
01:02:00.208 --> 01:02:03.672
And that's about to become high value in the workplace.

995
01:02:04.392 --> 01:02:11.279
The question is, are employers going to compensate for the skills that are typically seen as lower value than a techie?

996
01:02:11.279 --> 01:02:12.100
technical skills.

997
01:02:12.180 --> 01:02:19.004
But I do think that these emotional skills are about to become incredibly valuable as new technology disrupts teams.

998
01:02:19.364 --> 01:02:20.925
We need the emotional stability.

999
01:02:20.965 --> 01:02:27.850
We need the person who can be calm in the chaos and can navigate ambiguity and can support the team emotionally.

1000
01:02:27.870 --> 01:02:30.852
I think those skill sets are about to become extremely valuable.

1001
01:02:31.336 --> 01:02:49.868
It's so interesting how like those skills in my mind are exceptionally valuable, but you're saying that they're perceived right now as less valuable, even though, even though if you look at there's studies that I won't have off top of my head, but I've seen these studies before and we can Google them and link them later.

1002
01:02:50.969 --> 01:03:00.094
Women who have all of these incredible skills make for better investors because they don't make these rash emotional decisions, which lead to better returns.

1003
01:03:00.635 --> 01:03:01.055
I love that.

1004
01:03:02.068 --> 01:03:08.675
But it's interesting how even though it's proof, it's like there's a financial gain from having some of these skills.

1005
01:03:09.075 --> 01:03:13.219
They're still not looked at as the most important thing.

1006
01:03:13.259 --> 01:03:24.811
But it's almost like AI removing a lot of the need for some technical skills is forcing us to look at the other things that a human brings to the table and is highlighting.

1007
01:03:25.672 --> 01:03:27.072
all of these skills.

1008
01:03:27.112 --> 01:03:28.313
They should be compensated more.

1009
01:03:29.073 --> 01:03:29.613
They should be.

1010
01:03:30.273 --> 01:03:35.554
And there should be a focus on improving these skills.

1011
01:03:36.354 --> 01:03:43.616
Like if you are too emotional and you are making all these dumb ass decisions in your business, I don't want to hire you.

1012
01:03:44.396 --> 01:03:50.198
Like I really don't want to, I want somebody who is like level-headed, who is not rash, who does not act out.

1013
01:03:50.458 --> 01:03:51.118
I don't know why that's

1014
01:03:52.098 --> 01:03:54.478
a confusing thing to like wrap your head around.

1015
01:03:54.598 --> 01:03:56.119
It's so obvious to me.

1016
01:03:57.219 --> 01:03:59.579
But this is, so this is where the job market you think is heading.

1017
01:04:00.180 --> 01:04:01.740
These are the skills that people have to focus on.

1018
01:04:01.800 --> 01:04:02.020
Yes.

1019
01:04:02.080 --> 01:04:06.281
Advanced human skills, advanced interpersonal skills, people first leadership skills.

1020
01:04:07.221 --> 01:04:07.581
What was it?

1021
01:04:07.601 --> 01:04:10.021
There was one more data point that you had brought from Zip.

1022
01:04:10.301 --> 01:04:10.982
What was the other one?

1023
01:04:11.162 --> 01:04:12.042
Yeah.

1024
01:04:12.162 --> 01:04:18.803
So 74% of employers view AI as a baseline requirement for a role.

1025
01:04:19.275 --> 01:04:19.696
Oh, okay.

1026
01:04:19.716 --> 01:04:22.759
So what we were talking about before, you have to figure out AI.

1027
01:04:24.360 --> 01:04:29.726
With AI moving so quickly, what are some trends you see in the next six months?

1028
01:04:29.806 --> 01:04:32.008
I know it's very hard to forecast because it is moving very quickly.

1029
01:04:32.309 --> 01:04:39.136
The next six months to a year in terms of jobs, hiring, what work will look like for an employee right now?

1030
01:04:39.678 --> 01:04:43.861
I think we'll see an increase in asynchronous work opportunities.

1031
01:04:44.321 --> 01:04:47.463
And I get asked about this a lot, but I think we will see an increase.

1032
01:04:48.084 --> 01:04:53.268
And I'm hoping that along with that increase, we see an increase in clarity around employer expectations.

1033
01:04:53.288 --> 01:05:02.334
Because there is a gap right now for asynchronous workers and in-office workers, really not knowing exactly what the expectations are.

1034
01:05:02.574 --> 01:05:09.019
So I'm hoping that employers can get on board with outcomes over hours rather than monitoring keystrokes and monitoring...

1035
01:05:09.559 --> 01:05:10.139
Are you asleep?

1036
01:05:10.259 --> 01:05:11.040
Are you at your computer?

1037
01:05:11.060 --> 01:05:11.640
What are you doing?

1038
01:05:12.200 --> 01:05:13.600
It's about outcomes, not hours.

1039
01:05:13.700 --> 01:05:15.761
So what results do you want to see from me?

1040
01:05:15.961 --> 01:05:21.123
Be very clear about what you need to see from me and I will deliver on that.

1041
01:05:21.283 --> 01:05:32.527
So when employers focus on outcomes and move away from, you know, monitoring productivity like that, we actually see better results for everyone, the business, the employees, everyone.

1042
01:05:33.302 --> 01:05:37.385
It's surprising to me that we're still here, to be honest.

1043
01:05:37.745 --> 01:05:41.668
I mean, I thought COVID taught people a thing or two.

1044
01:05:41.889 --> 01:05:49.034
So we have not really gotten that much better when it comes to, because why would you care about somebody's keystrokes?

1045
01:05:49.635 --> 01:05:50.115
Why would you?

1046
01:05:53.069 --> 01:05:53.369
I don't know.

1047
01:05:53.389 --> 01:05:56.551
I just feel like, I don't even know if some of these companies are still in business.

1048
01:05:57.491 --> 01:06:09.997
It's like, like in all seriousness, hopefully people who are listening to this understand that just because a company's big, honestly, does not mean you should go work for them.

1049
01:06:11.178 --> 01:06:12.918
Like that doesn't mean they know what they're doing either.

1050
01:06:13.179 --> 01:06:14.579
And I think that's actually the biggest issue.

1051
01:06:14.779 --> 01:06:19.982
You feel like a company's big, they're established, they must have their shit figured out.

1052
01:06:21.575 --> 01:06:22.255
Definitely not.

1053
01:06:22.575 --> 01:06:23.315
That is not.

1054
01:06:24.156 --> 01:06:32.537
So like, but I'm saying this because say you get hired and a manager for a company is, you know, is, is, is saying, well, you know, this is the way it's always been done.

1055
01:06:32.657 --> 01:06:33.298
Blah, blah, blah.

1056
01:06:33.318 --> 01:06:36.538
We, you need to be sitting in office for eight hours a day.

1057
01:06:36.598 --> 01:06:37.178
I don't care.

1058
01:06:37.659 --> 01:06:43.740
You still have your KPIs, but that achieving 110% of the target doesn't matter if you're not sitting in office eight hours a day.

1059
01:06:43.760 --> 01:06:43.940
I'm like,

1060
01:06:44.360 --> 01:06:45.901
Bro, don't work for this person.

1061
01:06:46.042 --> 01:06:48.263
Like, maybe take the job to pay the bills.

1062
01:06:48.283 --> 01:06:50.265
I don't want to, you know, everyone's situation is different.

1063
01:06:50.525 --> 01:06:59.513
But please understand that, like, some employers are going to gaslight you into thinking that this dumbass way of managing is the norm.

1064
01:06:59.593 --> 01:07:00.114
And it's not.

1065
01:07:00.174 --> 01:07:00.854
And it's not good.

1066
01:07:01.015 --> 01:07:03.156
And I just want more people to be aware of that so they don't.

1067
01:07:03.957 --> 01:07:07.098
Stay in shitty companies and shitty bosses for too long.

1068
01:07:07.198 --> 01:07:09.999
Well, I think this is where like I call this a values first job search.

1069
01:07:10.239 --> 01:07:16.880
And actually right now people think it's counterintuitive to narrow down their job search because there's less opportunities or less perceived opportunities.

1070
01:07:16.920 --> 01:07:18.501
So people just apply for anything.

1071
01:07:19.181 --> 01:07:21.581
That is the wrong strategy, even in a tight market.

1072
01:07:21.661 --> 01:07:24.062
So you want to actually narrow down your search.

1073
01:07:24.522 --> 01:07:30.789
and only apply for roles that fit your core values, that meet your non-negotiables, and that have some of your nice-to-haves.

1074
01:07:31.149 --> 01:07:35.994
And that requires self-reflection and for you as a job seeker to sit down and codify these things.

1075
01:07:36.014 --> 01:07:38.136
Like, I need a remote work environment.

1076
01:07:38.296 --> 01:07:39.717
I want a boss who knows that

1077
01:07:40.418 --> 01:07:41.459
It's OK to have a life.

1078
01:07:41.939 --> 01:07:44.922
You know, for me, I always look for women in leadership.

1079
01:07:44.962 --> 01:07:45.723
I'm looking for that.

1080
01:07:45.783 --> 01:07:49.346
I'm looking for does this workplace have affinity groups that I can join and be a part of?

1081
01:07:49.927 --> 01:07:52.509
Does this workplace offer me flexibility that I need?

1082
01:07:52.869 --> 01:07:59.675
You know, and just really like carving out all my non-negotiables on a list helps me narrow down opportunities that aren't right for me.

1083
01:08:00.136 --> 01:08:04.900
So it's just as important to reject opportunities that aren't right for you as it is to apply for the ones that are fit.

1084
01:08:05.312 --> 01:08:11.214
I think that people may not even know what, you know, as you're going through this list, you're naming things that don't even know half of them exist.

1085
01:08:11.655 --> 01:08:24.580
So what are the things, because I don't think that everybody knows what to ask for when they're first applying for a job, especially your first job at a college, maybe if you're experienced, you know, but like, what are the things that are possible that you can start to look for in a company?

1086
01:08:25.171 --> 01:08:26.632
I always start with leadership style.

1087
01:08:27.273 --> 01:08:34.879
For me, that's so important because you spend a lot of time with your boss and that's where friction is rooted in the boss-employee relationship.

1088
01:08:34.939 --> 01:08:38.221
So you got to self-reflect what type of boss is good for me.

1089
01:08:38.421 --> 01:08:44.706
For me, I need somebody who can let me thrive and be autonomous, but who also sets expectations as well.

1090
01:08:45.227 --> 01:08:48.209
So I'm somebody who I'm really good at big picture thinking.

1091
01:08:48.569 --> 01:08:50.711
I'm less good at honing in on the details.

1092
01:08:50.731 --> 01:08:50.991
Yeah.

1093
01:08:51.291 --> 01:08:55.454
So I like to be able to have the freedom to innovate, come up with ideas.

1094
01:08:55.574 --> 01:08:58.616
So I need a boss who can appreciate that.

1095
01:08:58.716 --> 01:08:59.596
And maybe it's a balance.

1096
01:08:59.617 --> 01:09:05.100
Maybe it's a boss who is more detail-oriented so I can have the freedom to have the bigger ideas.

1097
01:09:05.260 --> 01:09:08.162
Or maybe it's a boss who can cultivate my strengths.

1098
01:09:08.702 --> 01:09:09.763
It depends on what you need.

1099
01:09:09.963 --> 01:09:13.926
Some people need a boss who is a micromanager because that's what they need.

1100
01:09:13.946 --> 01:09:14.986
They need to stay on task.

1101
01:09:15.407 --> 01:09:16.287
So know yourself.

1102
01:09:16.607 --> 01:09:17.668
Know what you need in a boss.

1103
01:09:17.888 --> 01:09:20.190
Know what you need in a communication style across your team.

1104
01:09:20.670 --> 01:09:21.751
Know what your core values are.

1105
01:09:22.151 --> 01:09:27.414
If you can't work for a company that doesn't care about the environment, know that about yourself because you're going to end up miserable.

1106
01:09:28.054 --> 01:09:30.796
So a lot of this has to do with you doing some inner work first.

1107
01:09:30.956 --> 01:09:32.297
A hundred percent.

1108
01:09:32.497 --> 01:09:36.700
And this is advice I never got applying for jobs.

1109
01:09:37.900 --> 01:09:38.561
I just applied.

1110
01:09:38.741 --> 01:09:42.583
You just were like, what's going to pay me money and what's a recognizable name of a company?

1111
01:09:42.623 --> 01:09:43.143
Straight up.

1112
01:09:43.264 --> 01:09:43.944
Yeah.

1113
01:09:43.964 --> 01:09:44.905
That's how you start.

1114
01:09:45.005 --> 01:09:48.887
That's really how you start because I think that there's, when you're first...

1115
01:09:50.460 --> 01:09:59.142
I like the advice of apply for a job before you need it so that you're not operating from a place of scarcity and you're not operating from a place of I'm stressed out.

1116
01:09:59.563 --> 01:10:02.543
I'm just going to take the first thing because I have to put food on the table and pay rent.

1117
01:10:03.864 --> 01:10:08.965
And I mean, we have to be respectful of everybody's situation.

1118
01:10:08.985 --> 01:10:09.745
It's a little bit different.

1119
01:10:09.785 --> 01:10:14.767
Sometimes you do have to take a job just to take the job and it's not a great job.

1120
01:10:15.756 --> 01:10:16.236
It's okay.

1121
01:10:16.556 --> 01:10:25.660
There's, there's like, I'd rather somebody take a job that's not perfect, but then, okay, I'm paying the bills, you know, rent's taken care of.

1122
01:10:25.880 --> 01:10:28.621
Now let me go through this, this exercise.

1123
01:10:28.921 --> 01:10:35.103
Cause you, you can't, I'm not a big fan of, of pride and ego when it comes to making money and supporting your family and supporting yourself.

1124
01:10:35.123 --> 01:10:36.303
Like you have to make money.

1125
01:10:37.084 --> 01:10:43.046
But long-term, cause I don't want people to say, oh, this is a privileged place to be in being able to think of all these different things.

1126
01:10:43.386 --> 01:10:43.826
No, I get it.

1127
01:10:44.226 --> 01:10:49.830
Deal with the reality you're in right now, but then architect a better future for yourself meaningfully.

1128
01:10:50.210 --> 01:10:54.953
And it is privileged to be able to job search from a place that is values first.

1129
01:10:55.313 --> 01:11:00.797
However, I have clients from all over the spectrum, entry level, mid-level.

1130
01:11:00.997 --> 01:11:04.259
And we've used this approach with job seekers and it has worked.

1131
01:11:04.680 --> 01:11:12.084
Them going through the lens of what opportunity is right for me and what opportunity do I want rather than just applying for anything randomly.

1132
01:11:12.284 --> 01:11:12.805
It does work.

1133
01:11:13.425 --> 01:11:19.851
When it comes to AI and job applications, how should you use it?

1134
01:11:20.812 --> 01:11:21.412
Thoughtfully.

1135
01:11:21.813 --> 01:11:22.894
Not just apply.

1136
01:11:23.174 --> 01:11:26.397
Because at this point, in all seriousness, I've thought about this quite a bit.

1137
01:11:27.694 --> 01:11:32.977
You could go to Codex or Cloud Code or Perplexity or GrokBot or whatever you want to use.

1138
01:11:33.657 --> 01:11:36.419
And you could say, hey, these are my values.

1139
01:11:37.759 --> 01:11:45.884
You could do the work and then put them into some sort of LLM and be like, now go apply to 2,000 jobs with my values.

1140
01:11:46.384 --> 01:11:47.665
All with, all with...

1141
01:11:48.345 --> 01:11:55.270
a hyper-personalized cover letter and resume with all the right keywords and everything like that.

1142
01:11:56.871 --> 01:12:01.255
And there's going to be some people, not everybody's doing this, obviously, but some people are definitely doing this.

1143
01:12:01.775 --> 01:12:06.959
So I guess the question is, is this a good strategy?

1144
01:12:07.119 --> 01:12:08.180
Is this a bad strategy?

1145
01:12:08.680 --> 01:12:13.724
But knowing that some people are doing it, regardless whether or not they think it's a good or bad strategy, it's going to happen.

1146
01:12:14.044 --> 01:12:16.706
How do you differentiate yourself from somebody who's doing that?

1147
01:12:17.500 --> 01:12:17.940
Totally.

1148
01:12:18.120 --> 01:12:20.782
I can tell you what's working now for my job seekers.

1149
01:12:20.942 --> 01:12:25.624
And what's working is to use AI as a strategic thought partner, not as a final answer.

1150
01:12:25.965 --> 01:12:35.610
So, for example, the value that job seekers find in working with me is I write resumes in compelling language.

1151
01:12:36.090 --> 01:12:41.453
When you have AI write your resume for you, and as a recruiter I look at them all the time, I see the AI generated resumes,

1152
01:12:41.913 --> 01:12:44.674
They all sound the same and they're all generic.

1153
01:12:45.235 --> 01:12:49.257
Like it'll say something like, I efficiently produce results at scale.

1154
01:12:49.817 --> 01:12:52.658
That doesn't give me any information.

1155
01:12:52.678 --> 01:13:00.322
Whereas when I'm handwriting a resume for a job seeker, I'm interjecting, I'm concluding their unique human skills.

1156
01:13:00.622 --> 01:13:02.423
I'm writing the how behind it.

1157
01:13:03.123 --> 01:13:07.808
And I always say use your resume as an opportunity to showcase your writing ability and your communication style.

1158
01:13:08.168 --> 01:13:13.813
When you have AI write your resume, that tells me nothing about your communication style except that you sound robotic.

1159
01:13:14.274 --> 01:13:15.275
So I'm a communicator.

1160
01:13:15.295 --> 01:13:15.915
I'm a writer.

1161
01:13:16.316 --> 01:13:24.764
So I believe the resume needs to be an opportunity to showcase your authentic communication skills when you write your about me section, your areas of expertise, even your bullets.

1162
01:13:25.264 --> 01:13:29.208
All of those are opportunities to capture the human who's going to be reading it.

1163
01:13:29.529 --> 01:13:33.713
That doesn't mean your resume is not also optimized for the ATS, the applicant tracking system.

1164
01:13:34.194 --> 01:13:35.595
It needs to do both nowadays.

1165
01:13:35.756 --> 01:13:39.800
It needs to be keyword optimized and compelling at the same time.

1166
01:13:40.399 --> 01:13:43.141
So it's okay to use AI to help.

1167
01:13:43.421 --> 01:13:46.023
Kind of like that 20, 60, 20 thing.

1168
01:13:46.063 --> 01:13:53.948
20% of prompting input, 60% of, okay, do the work AI, then 20% of review, final touches, tell a story.

1169
01:13:54.588 --> 01:14:04.735
Is there other ways to, and I would assume as a recruiter, if you are hiring and you see pure AI resumes, do you just like throw them out now?

1170
01:14:05.543 --> 01:14:07.764
It doesn't tell me anything about you.

1171
01:14:07.784 --> 01:14:09.885
It's not like it kills the chance.

1172
01:14:10.105 --> 01:14:11.866
It's just you don't stand out.

1173
01:14:12.026 --> 01:14:18.249
You don't stand out with an AI-generated resume because I don't have any idea who you are and what you could be bringing to the table.

1174
01:14:18.269 --> 01:14:20.310
It doesn't incentivize me to bring you in.

1175
01:14:20.950 --> 01:14:33.136
I will say, though, ZipRecruiter data shows that job seekers who used AI to help them through the process were twice as likely to land an offer as those who did not use AI.

1176
01:14:33.936 --> 01:14:39.745
It's just because they become more efficient and helps them with the research process and helps them tailor the resume to a degree, but they still use like that.

1177
01:14:39.765 --> 01:14:44.192
Is there other ways to stand out to like verify that you're a real human?

1178
01:14:44.313 --> 01:14:48.820
Do people start sending videos or other things like that as part of the application or is that too much?

1179
01:14:49.464 --> 01:14:55.608
If the employer asks for it, if they request that type of connection, if they have an opportunity for you to send a video, do it.

1180
01:14:55.668 --> 01:14:58.349
I wouldn't necessarily recommend it just going for it.

1181
01:14:59.490 --> 01:15:05.193
But if you're applying on like ZipRecruiter, we have Be Seen First, which allows you to send a short video message to the employer.

1182
01:15:05.293 --> 01:15:07.115
And it also bumps you to the top of their screening list.

1183
01:15:07.175 --> 01:15:09.976
So you can send a message that says, hey, here's what I'm really good at.

1184
01:15:10.016 --> 01:15:11.437
Here's why I'm excited about this role.

1185
01:15:12.017 --> 01:15:17.781
And that puts a face to a name and really does, I think, make for a more exciting introduction to the employer.

1186
01:15:17.801 --> 01:15:17.901
Yeah.

1187
01:15:18.288 --> 01:15:22.669
And what would be the number one thing that people screw up when they're applying for a job?

1188
01:15:23.469 --> 01:15:26.170
Sending in a generic resume.

1189
01:15:26.370 --> 01:15:27.550
I still see it all the time.

1190
01:15:28.471 --> 01:15:30.211
Just sending a resume that's generic.

1191
01:15:30.311 --> 01:15:35.673
Yeah, maybe there are one or two skill sets in common with the job, but that is not enough in this market.

1192
01:15:35.853 --> 01:15:38.373
You have to be very specialized for your role.

1193
01:15:38.893 --> 01:15:40.674
I think a lot of people are saying like...

1194
01:15:41.594 --> 01:15:46.598
I'm just going to have a resume that speaks to all the different things that I do and somebody's going to be into that.

1195
01:15:47.139 --> 01:15:47.839
That doesn't work.

1196
01:15:48.039 --> 01:15:52.203
You have to go hyper specialize in terms of the roles you're applying for and your resume.

1197
01:15:52.383 --> 01:15:53.244
Hyper specialize.

1198
01:15:53.384 --> 01:15:54.625
Don't have a generalist resume.

1199
01:15:55.213 --> 01:16:04.343
Now, on the flip side of this, we've focused a lot on, you know, giving somebody who's applying for a job or navigating their career, all the different tools and strategies.

1200
01:16:04.984 --> 01:16:08.448
But let's talk to the hiring person right now.

1201
01:16:09.749 --> 01:16:10.830
How do they hire?

1202
01:16:11.010 --> 01:16:12.152
How do they find the right talent?

1203
01:16:12.172 --> 01:16:12.532
How do they hire?

1204
01:16:12.732 --> 01:16:19.895
How do they deal with somebody who has a Mosaic career, who doesn't want to be in the company for more than maybe a year or two years?

1205
01:16:20.135 --> 01:16:26.698
Like these are all difficult things that myself, other people that are hiring, other founders, other CEOs, other managers, they're all dealing with.

1206
01:16:26.738 --> 01:16:31.140
And I don't think, I mean, some people are doing it better than others, but it's still very difficult.

1207
01:16:31.820 --> 01:16:33.760
I love this question, advice for hiring managers.

1208
01:16:34.080 --> 01:16:39.581
I think make sure that your job description is clear and your scope is clear.

1209
01:16:39.821 --> 01:16:43.222
I think there's a lot of roles that get posted without intention.

1210
01:16:43.922 --> 01:16:48.923
So you need to really narrow down, like what are the skill sets that this role needs?

1211
01:16:49.183 --> 01:16:56.844
It requires a lot of thought and a lot of strategy and a lot of work with the HR team to say, what's the why behind this role, number one?

1212
01:16:57.284 --> 01:16:59.645
Number two, what are the top three skills this person needs?

1213
01:17:00.605 --> 01:17:08.250
And number three, are there gaps on the team currently that we need to fill to make this team the best it can possibly be, whether those are soft skills or hard skills?

1214
01:17:08.930 --> 01:17:15.434
So you really need to be intentional as a hiring manager about the skill sets that you're trying to bring in, because I think a lot of times it is way too broad.

1215
01:17:15.474 --> 01:17:18.856
I see job descriptions today that list 10 different skill sets.

1216
01:17:18.917 --> 01:17:22.999
It's like this job is for three people, not one person.

1217
01:17:23.439 --> 01:17:29.183
So I think you really need to identify your needs and who it is that you're looking for before you can accurately recruit.

1218
01:17:29.423 --> 01:17:32.724
Because just putting a generic job post, that's a little bit lazy.

1219
01:17:32.744 --> 01:17:33.184
Yes.

1220
01:17:33.764 --> 01:17:35.765
And then people complain when they can't find the right talent.

1221
01:17:36.465 --> 01:17:36.925
Exactly.

1222
01:17:37.506 --> 01:17:40.066
You're attracting like four different kinds of people.

1223
01:17:40.146 --> 01:17:45.528
So like, of course, you're not going to find the right person because each one of those things in the job post is like a different job.

1224
01:17:45.548 --> 01:17:50.850
So you're going to find four different people that are all good at four different things and then you're upset that they can't do everything.

1225
01:17:51.130 --> 01:17:51.850
And it's confusing.

1226
01:17:51.990 --> 01:17:53.231
Yeah, it's like, who do I bring on?

1227
01:17:53.271 --> 01:17:54.171
Like, what's happening here?

1228
01:17:55.531 --> 01:17:57.672
How do employers navigate

1229
01:17:59.275 --> 01:18:03.696
the fact that people want to switch jobs and have mosaic non-linear careers?

1230
01:18:04.636 --> 01:18:08.337
I think employers are starting to recognize that as the new normal.

1231
01:18:08.737 --> 01:18:14.479
I think it's about accepting that this is what career paths are going to look like.

1232
01:18:14.599 --> 01:18:23.981
It happens at the same time that employers are starting to normalize and accept career gaps, which used to be looked at as, how could you possibly have a career gap?

1233
01:18:24.341 --> 01:18:26.361
Now it's, how could you not have a career gap?

1234
01:18:26.401 --> 01:18:28.782
Which shows that you are ambitious about your career now.

1235
01:18:29.002 --> 01:18:29.983
Yes, yes.

1236
01:18:30.223 --> 01:18:46.515
You should have a gap if you pursued entrepreneurship or if you were a caretaker, a caregiver, parental leave, like own your gaps because your gaps also teach you valuable skills that you can bring into the narrative of your next interview.

1237
01:18:47.295 --> 01:18:50.538
And if you're worried about people quiet quitting on you.

1238
01:18:52.229 --> 01:19:00.079
we just sort of touched on this before, but ultimately it's on you to make sure that you know where your employees want to end up.

1239
01:19:00.519 --> 01:19:03.283
So they're quiet quitting on you more often than not.

1240
01:19:03.783 --> 01:19:07.047
It's like a lack of you communicating with them.

1241
01:19:07.107 --> 01:19:08.349
Is that more or less correct?

1242
01:19:08.409 --> 01:19:09.950
Yes, there's a lack of understanding.

1243
01:19:09.970 --> 01:19:15.132
There's a lack of communication between the employer and the employee as to what's actually going on there.

1244
01:19:15.273 --> 01:19:18.114
So the other thing that people think about a lot, obviously, is money.

1245
01:19:18.734 --> 01:19:34.402
And that example that I gave earlier of that director getting me to apply as an external candidate, air quotes, external candidate, which would give me, you know, a 20 grand bump as opposed to like a $5,000 bump in salary, I don't know.

1246
01:19:36.650 --> 01:19:37.290
That was great.

1247
01:19:37.491 --> 01:19:46.496
And I feel like a lot of people think that if they switch companies, switch jobs, they're going to get these huge pay bumps and pay increases.

1248
01:19:47.616 --> 01:19:51.619
Is that the truth or is that a thing anymore?

1249
01:19:51.739 --> 01:19:55.141
Like if you want to have this mosaic career, are you getting a huge bump?

1250
01:19:55.181 --> 01:19:56.622
Are you getting a huge pay increase?

1251
01:19:57.082 --> 01:19:58.943
Or how do you think through the financials of it?

1252
01:19:58.963 --> 01:20:01.024
Because financials motivate a lot of people to do stuff as well.

1253
01:20:01.044 --> 01:20:05.747
I don't want people to quit a job if not for the right reasons.

1254
01:20:06.273 --> 01:20:06.533
Totally.

1255
01:20:06.553 --> 01:20:09.336
And I always recommend don't quit until you have something lined up.

1256
01:20:09.416 --> 01:20:09.576
Right.

1257
01:20:09.596 --> 01:20:11.678
The best time to search is while you have a job.

1258
01:20:12.178 --> 01:20:13.179
So that's number one.

1259
01:20:14.561 --> 01:20:16.583
It really depends on the industry.

1260
01:20:16.603 --> 01:20:17.523
It depends on the role.

1261
01:20:17.643 --> 01:20:19.545
There are opportunities to job hop and make more.

1262
01:20:19.725 --> 01:20:22.268
But right now, because of the volatility of the market.

1263
01:20:23.869 --> 01:20:27.412
There are good reasons to stay, to job hug, as we call it.

1264
01:20:27.713 --> 01:20:40.464
So according to a recent Zip Recruiter survey, job hoppers think that they're going to get 20 plus percent increase when they hop, but it's actually looking more like 4.4 percent in the reality of the current market.

1265
01:20:40.584 --> 01:20:42.586
And then that is role dependent, industry dependent.

1266
01:20:43.026 --> 01:20:56.051
So what you can do is go hard for a raise internally, advocate for yourself internally, know your strengths, know how you add value, try to get on bigger projects that are tied directly to company goals for the year.

1267
01:20:56.531 --> 01:21:02.033
And then you have a clear business case that you can present to your boss to say, hey, I want a raise of X dollars.

1268
01:21:02.133 --> 01:21:04.034
Do your market research beforehand, of course.

1269
01:21:05.155 --> 01:21:05.735
Give them a number.

1270
01:21:06.595 --> 01:21:07.856
Make it hard for them to say no.

1271
01:21:07.896 --> 01:21:08.716
Let them tell you no.

1272
01:21:08.837 --> 01:21:13.179
But they're not going to come to you passively with, here's a really big raise.

1273
01:21:13.339 --> 01:21:14.120
Here's a promotion.

1274
01:21:14.540 --> 01:21:17.101
You have to proactively go after that and build your case.

1275
01:21:17.902 --> 01:21:21.884
So switching jobs won't always have this huge increase.

1276
01:21:22.044 --> 01:21:25.506
So if you are going to switch jobs, do it for the right reasons.

1277
01:21:25.987 --> 01:21:27.047
Do it for the right reasons.

1278
01:21:27.087 --> 01:21:31.090
Values first job search, an opportunity you're really aligned with and excited about.

1279
01:21:31.110 --> 01:21:35.112
Because if you just hop to just hop, the grass isn't necessarily going to be greener.

1280
01:21:35.663 --> 01:21:36.383
I love it.

1281
01:21:36.783 --> 01:21:39.324
Where can people connect with you, follow you on social?

1282
01:21:39.344 --> 01:21:40.124
Where do you want to send them?

1283
01:21:40.624 --> 01:21:43.205
So you can follow us on Instagram at ZipRecruiter.

1284
01:21:43.285 --> 01:21:46.606
You can follow me at A Power Mood on Instagram and TikTok.

1285
01:21:47.006 --> 01:21:47.286
Awesome.

1286
01:21:47.346 --> 01:21:47.646
Okay.

1287
01:21:47.726 --> 01:21:48.406
Last question.

1288
01:21:49.126 --> 01:21:50.347
It can be career advice.

1289
01:21:50.387 --> 01:21:51.387
It can be life advice.

1290
01:21:51.507 --> 01:21:57.108
If you had to go back and tell, you know, 20-year-old Sam the most important piece of advice you've ever learned, what would it be and why?

1291
01:21:57.928 --> 01:21:58.709
Build your dream life.

1292
01:21:59.229 --> 01:21:59.949
The rest will follow.