Keion Henderson - Founder & Pastor of The Lighthouse Church | Exposing The Truth About The Seasons of Life

Life is so complicated. You look around their trees. It's just too complex to be left to chance. So I choose to believe that there is a God. Keon Henderson. As the founder and senior pastor of the Lighthouse Church and Ministries, Keon has built one of the fastest growing congregations in the nation. Keon's journey has been marked by groundbreaking achievements. By 21, he established his first church and today he leads a thriving community. Keon is also a best-selling author and a sought-after motivational speaker. In this podcast, we explore his vision, his values, and his relentless dedication to making a difference. Every generation thinks that their generation is as bad as any generation previous because it's the one you're in and the one you witness. Times have always been difficult and you'll always hear the generation that looks back at their life and say, I've never seen it this bad before. Life is difficult when you live it. I am a religious leader, but it doesn't necessarily mean I'm overly religious. Life is so complicated. You look around in their trees and rivers and reservoirs and skies and start and it's just too complex to be left to chance. So I choose to believe that there is a God. It's a very practical way, a very logical way to look at God and faith and spirituality. When you look outside of God for another solution to a spiritual matter, then you're going down a road that leads to a dead end. One of the things about love and relationships that is not true is that you don't find happiness in a relationship. Happiness is an inside job. You have to come with it or you have to develop it over time. But if you're ever going to be happy, it's an inside job. You are born, looking like your parents, but you die looking like your decisions. Welcome to Success Story. I'm your host, Scott Clary. The Success Story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network. I am a huge fan of HubSpot because they support entrepreneurs. A lot of entrepreneurs, founders, executives, listen to this show. And for entrepreneurs that are trying to build, I have a question for you. Does it feel like your teams are getting pulled in a million different directions? When everyone's digging in on different projects with different platforms and different places, it can be tough to stay focused on a common goal. And that throws a wrench into things. That's why HubSpot brings everything your team needs into one easy to use and easy to love customer platform with it. They have everything they need to scale the business at their fingertips. So your marketers can write blog posts and a snap with AI and build better leads with in-depth campaigns. Sales can build connections and close deals faster with tracking tools and real-time performance insights and service. You can get a hand from AI-powered chatbots for better support and more five-star reviews. And everyone can deliver killer results and grow revenue faster than ever before. Because when your teams work better, your business grows faster. Visit HubSpot.com to get started for free today. Thank you. I really, really appreciate you coming on. There's going to be a lot of fun. I want to start with just a question to set the tone. So tell me, tell me, who is God, what is God? That's a very interesting question. Complicated in its essence because who he is depends on who you're speaking to. We believe in the Christian faith that there is what we call a triumphant God. So that's the Trinity, like a tricycle, three wheels. So he's father, son, and Holy Spirit. So who is he? Well, when he's God, the creator, right? He's the creator and giver of all life. Right? He is the Genesis, the origin of all that is. That's God, Yahweh, Jehovah, the God of the universe. But then man falls in sin and Genesis 11 and once they're seeded, they guess after his own kind, which means in order for thing to be redeemed, it can only be redeemed by something of the same kind. So God is spirit, man falling in the garden needs to be redeemed by seed of the same kind. So he becomes Jesus Christ, human, right? Because now he's to redeem us. And then he dies on the cross, right? Third day morning, goes back, gets up with all power. But what happens when he leaves? He leaves the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is the evidence in the earth realm that he was here. And he's the part of the Godhead that we cannot see. We can only feel. We can only sense. We read about him in the scripture. That's why we have to walk by faith and not by sight. So who is he? Well, he is father. He is son. He is Holy Spirit. He is creator. He is elder brother and he is the Holy Spirit. And the best way I can explain it is once someone asked me this question, I said, well, it's not that far-fetched to believe that God can be three things. Okay, so take fast. It's got your, your, your, your children's father. But you're all no, your wife's husband. And you're also interviewing me, right? So that means you're an entrepreneur. You don't have to stop being any of those things to becomeable you are. You can be all three of those things simultaneously, but it depends on where you are when you enact that portion of your person. So God is complicated yet simplistic. And I said all of that. And we still don't know who he is. I think that a lot of people have a very hard time understanding the place that that God has in their life. And a lot of people listen to this podcast or entrepreneurs and I don't do a lot of shows focused on spirituality. And I want to just start by saying you teach over so many rudimentary, helpful lessons and tools. I do not, I want somebody who's listening to this who before before you just pivot out and you're like, listen, I do not believe in God. I've never believed in God. This is not part of my life. I want you to listen to the way we walk through how God has a place in society. Because what I believe just to sort of kick things off because this is a great way to start. I believe that society as a whole is losing a connection to any God. It could be Christian God, Jewish God, Islam and Muslim God. Even those are all Abrahamic religions. They are technically all the same God. But you're losing touched in general with traditional religion. And what I believe is when you lose touch with traditional religion, something else replaces that as God in your life. So money, work, women, gambling, alcohol addiction and it could be other things like work is not necessarily a bad thing. But to put it on the pedestal, that's all I'm serving is also not healthy. So I'm curious. I mean, let's walk through your life. You kind of know what my thoughts are on on where society is going. I'm curious if you think that's true or not. And if I'm just totally oblivious, it's also okay. But maybe like comment on that, but also comment on sort of your personal journey with God because obviously he's been a big part of your life. Yeah, I think that every generation thinks that their generation is as bad as any generation. Because it's the one you're in and the one you witness. Let's travel back in time and ask our ancestors how difficult was it to live when there were no lights and you have to patch what you ate and you had to grow what you ate. And you didn't have to go. You didn't have the luxury of a grocery store. Let's talk about when the bullbarned clade was plaguing our society. And you know, chicken cocks and measles and clues with no cure. Now, times have always been difficult. And you'll always hear the generation that looks back at their life and say, I've never seen it this bad before. And one day you and I will be looking back and we'll be saying we've never seen it this bad before. So I think that life is difficult when you live it. But it is more disadvantageous when you have to see life from a perspective that you are oblivious to. So you'll talk to some people who will say, you know, 70-year-old will say, I got, I've never seen it this bad before the internet. And you see, they didn't have it. And our children grow up in this day and age and they don't see it as a difficulty. They see it as a way to live. They see it as entertainment. They see it in a different way. Now, there are also struggles that go along with it, obviously. But, you know, think about the days of Noah when it was flooding. And God was washing the world away. I bet you know I will say, I've never seen it this bad before. So, you know, it's relative. One of the things that I believe, my walk with God, which was your second question, was influenced by parents who walked with him before me. So I really didn't have an option. It was like God or nothing else. Well, I did come to my own conundrum when I started to think, I'm 20 years old, I'm 18 years old, I want a party, I want to have fun, I want to do what all of my friends are doing. And yet I got these parents telling me about this God thing. Well, this God thing means I can't go to the club, I can't drink, I can't do all the things that I see my friends doing. And I'll be honest with you. Even as a minister of the gospel, I'm this transparent in our book. I did my best to go to the clubs and to have parties. I did it all. It just didn't appeal to the sensibilities of me. I know and I knew at 14 years old what I was created to do. I preached my first sermon at 14 years old in the mother of July in the year of 1995. And from that day forward, I preached the gospel consistently to here I am 43 years old a day. So my upbringing helped me to know who God was. It took me and my own experience to know God. And I can't tell you how big of a different steadiest there is a difference between knowing, well, God is and knowing God, exactly. I know Elon Musk is rich. I know he had something to do with the creation of the Tesla truck. I know he's the owner of X. I know he has a 300 plus billion dollar network. In fact, I was at a comedy show last year and he was two people, three people away from it. So I know he was at that comedy show, but I don't know him. I don't know him and he doesn't know me and that's the difference between knowing who God is and knowing God. Do you think that do you think that a lot of people just based on what I just mentioned where people are I find replacing God with other items and things and vices. Do you feel like what is that correct and am I just totally off base? No, I believe they are. I believe they have always been. Let's go back to the Old Testament scriptures. There's a scripture that says up on this rock I'll build my church and the gates of hell should not prevail against it. The context of that scripture was that Jesus was standing amongst a rock cliff and they began to engrave idols in the rocks. And Jesus comes and says, no, you're not to worship those idols. You're to worship me upon this rock I'll build my church and the gates of hell should not prevail against it. So people have always tried to figure out a way to replace God with something else. The children of Israel were in the wilderness for 400 years because they tried to replace God with something else. The Egyptians had the 10 plays come up on them because they tried to replace God with something else. Generation after generation are are I guess you would say our replacement isn't a golden image like the three Hebrew boys would never kignisland down your chapter three. It's not that ours is perhaps money or perhaps the internet perhaps fame perhaps notoriety every generation has its Achilles heel. But we're not unique to this. This is a fundamental human problem. Whatever Eve did in the garden that whatever she bit was an idol because she decided to get fruit from it as opposed to the creator. And from that point forward with Adam and Eve we have perpetuated that cycle. And it won't be over until according to our faith until Jesus returns and those of us who've accepted him as lord and savior will be caught up in the twelfth and other nine those who have died proceeding from us will be raised out of the ground and we will go to heaven. And our mortal bodies will be turned into immortal bodies and we will be in heaven with hell without faith that sounds ridiculous to believe it sounds crazy. But here's what I always tell people because I know it's hard to have faith and I know it's hard to believe God. But here's what I always say. Perhaps and let's say for instance none of what I said is true. I'd rather have God and not need him than to need him and not happen. So say princess none of what I said is true and you believe it anyway at least you have but if it is true and you don't believe it you have everything that looks if it isn't true and you don't believe it. You have everything to lose if it is true and you don't believe it you have everything to lose. So this is a great segue into my next question because what you were saying is it's a very practical way a very logical way to look at God and faith and spirituality and society. I was going to ask you if you know based on what you that that the sort of the theory that you just said how it's you not only know of God but you know God. And I think many people know of God but don't know God and I was going to ask how does somebody in modern society build that relationship better. Again coming from somebody who is not very religious how does somebody build that relationship better and what places that serve outside of outside of in theory after we move on and die. So I would say this to the original premise of the start the question I am a religious leader but it doesn't necessarily mean I'm overly religious because I think there's a difference between having a belief system and having a religious system. And I also believe that there's evidence in scripture that Jesus himself was adverse at best to religious systems. Separating worshiping God from religion those are two different things. Denominational nationalism our church is a non-denominational church because we don't believe that you have to be a Baptist or a Pentecostal or a Methodist or Catholic. We don't believe that you have to be any particular denomination to be a part of the whole family of God. And so how does a person in a modernistic society find themselves in faith see here's a thing except in Jesus Christ or accepting God is not technology. The process doesn't upgrade it's just saying from a million years ago if you believe in evolution or 6000 years ago if you just believe in creation or you get and neither and none of us know you know people can tell you they know how old the earth is based on the set of many rocks none of us know because God is smart enough that he could have created things with age into it right because Adam and he were not born. They were born adults so he can create things already age so none of us know but the process to finding God is not technology doesn't upgrade you just simply have to have faith. Roman chapter 10 verse 9 says if you confess with your mouth that you believe that Jesus is Lord and you believe in your heart that God raised his son from the dead thou shall be saved or you are saved. That's it we said our church is as simple as ABC you accept him a you believe in him be and you confess him see there's no technology to it it doesn't change if you live in Bangladesh or if you live in Louisiana it doesn't matter if you live in Manhattan or if you live in Miami it doesn't matter if you live in Houston or if you if you live somewhere near the mountains of Iran it doesn't matter if you believe. He's so universal that he'll come into your heart and when he comes into your heart the things that seem to be difficult to believe all of a sudden become easier believe because you're now in Florence by this powerful spirit that you cannot see taste or touch but you can feel and I promise I promise you I can feel him I can feel him I've seen him do things. That are not ordinary I've seen him do things I've seen live change I am a representation of a bad change of having that higher power being infusing your life and you know I'm not one that subscribes to evolution because the big bang theory never made sense to me because if I set off a bomb right now I've never seen anything assemble as a result of an explosion. I don't believe it happened then and I don't believe it can happen now I believe there has to be life is so complicated you look around in their trees and rivers and reservoirs and skies and start it's just too complex to be left to chance so I choose to believe that there was a guy. Hey guys Scott here I just wanted to take a quick moment to say a heartfelt thanks to every single one of you six years of this show and it's really all because of you your listens your support your shares it's what keeps this thing going when I started I had no idea how big this would get how many lives we touch the stories we share the lessons that we learned together it's truly humbling and I believe that we're building something really special here a community where no one has to reinvent the wheel we're all in this together learning and growing. And here's my ask if you love this show it's made a difference for you please share it with somebody who needs it hella friend post on social whatever works it's the best way to keep this thing going strong bring on even better guests and share more life changing wisdom and you can find us on all the spots so you can go to success story podcast.com if you like listening to podcasts if you like video you can go to youtube it's youtube.com slash c slash Scott Declary or the newsletter newsletter. Declary.com just spread the word I'm eternally grateful for each and every one of you let's keep learning let's keep growing and let's keep making this world a little bit better together all right let's get back to the show you mentioned something that I think I would love your opinion on and I thought about this a lot because there's all these denominations of of Christianity there's not denominations of every major religion and it always seems like these denominations really serve to polarize to a degree groups of people that believe in something and I never quite understood it and I was trying to figure it out actually because I'm Canadian I moved down to the U.S. and in Canada there's much more Catholicism Roman Catholicism. That seems to be much more predominant than the U.S. and in the U.S. you do see non-denominational and you see like different versions of Christianity and I was also curious why there's so many different denominations outside of historical reasons. Is there a particular comment or or just thought on on how religion has evolved and the purpose it should serve versus maybe how it's being interpreted now so we kind of have two schools of thought we people that are not religious but then people that are religious they seem like it's like their way or no other way and I think that's also a toxic behavior. Yeah I agree with you and let me say this I've had an opportunity enormously it's been a pleasure I got an opportunity to speak in Toronto I've spoken in Montreal I believe when I spoke in Montreal and I may have the statistics wrong but the pastor said to me you know only 3% of the of this area we were in well subscribe to Christianity the majority of the people in that area were subscribers of Islamic faith in Muslims and and so for him to have a successful church in that area was wasn't I obvious you know positive assignment for him oh my god yes I think you're so right that they're religious people and again I made the distinction earlier between being religious and and having faith I think those are two different things and I think that when you are integrated in a religion as a as a way of doing life right as as being a religious person I believe that you see religion as this well let me back up I think denominational the inside of religion that's a man may think you you don't see the word Pentecostal in the Bible you don't see Catholicism in the Bible all of these a man may think why because and I've seen this let me bring it down to a even lower level then denomination when I was growing up our church was a part of the national Baptist convention and every year we have to go to this convention and everybody were suits all day long and we went to church all day long and I hated it I mean I hated that to go to church after go to class and our pastor will just drag us around and then one year he said do you want to go to the winter board meeting and I said okay and when we got there it was the progressive Baptist it was the national Baptist it was some of it was four different Baptist sections of the convention and I asked him I said why do we have if we're all Baptist why is there a Southern Baptist this Baptist well what happened is when man can't get there a way they leave and start something else that's he even showed me he said you see that church right there that church is called first Baptist church I could take you three minutes down the road you'll see second Baptist church second Baptist church exists because they couldn't get along with the people at first Baptist church so instead of working out their differences they wouldn't start a second Baptist and if you go amount down the road you're running the third Baptist because the people that third Baptist couldn't get along with the people at second it's a man-made thing and when authority cannot be achieved men have a way of stepping away and starting their own denomination it has nothing to do with how God instituted the church God created one button there was one Lord one faith one baptism he created one body and that's why when he comes back to get us he's not coming back for Baptist he's not coming back for the Catholic he's not coming back for the Pentecostal he's not coming back for the Methodist he's not coming back for the black nor the white he's not coming back for the rich or the poor the Bible says there is no more Greek nor Gentile there's no more male or female there's no more slave or free we are one people and he's coming back simply for one person those who believe and he doesn't care if you're tall short rich poor black white brown he doesn't care if you believe that's what he's coming back for and he won't asking for your denomination car does it won't get you in the head when you you know you've laid out a couple different points about belief systems when you when you speak with people that are atheist or or agnostic what is what is your and i'm sure you i'm sure your comment will be one i don't know if you try and convince people to become more religious denial i'll leave that with you but what is your comment on the place that faith and spirituality has in modern day society for somebody who has no interest yeah it's very difficult to have a conversation with someone who has no interest but what we believe in the faith is that you plant the seed and you let God do the you know there's a scripture that says i paul planted the seed a paul was watered it so sometimes the person who plans to see doesn't get a chance to see the maturation so for instance if i were talking to you right now and you were an atheist the last thing i would do is try to convince you to believe because here's the deal i understand it would be as difficult for me to convince you to believe as it would be for you to convince me not to we both come to the table would a preconceived notion it says a belief so the only thing i can do for the non-believer after sharing my faith and possibly being denied is to be an example of God just just be that's that's all we have to do if if the church majored on being good as opposed to telling people how good they are not more people may be attracted to what we are doing as those who subscribe to faith you're not going to be able to beat anybody over here and tell them you're going to hell if you don't believe it and and and and and you will never succeed if you don't believe no you you're talking to somebody who's probably already successful so how does that work how do you tell the billionaire he won't be successful if that's how he subscribed to success that he won't be successful if he doesn't believe now we don't believe that the things of this earth are the methods by which we subscribe to success are our reward is one that we cannot see it is a heavenly place where we will have eternal life with God and not temporary life on this earth because the house you're in right now it's beautiful in a hundred years it won't even be standing but there is another place that has been there since the beginning of time and will be there one time as we know it is no more I can't convince an atheist of that in real time but I can be a light shining at an example of God and then that person may one day come to faith and know I remember that preacher who talked about God some time ago I'm a little more curious about that now because life has a way of changing the way you think it does or you have to do as be patient everybody has to come around these corners and these terms and life will for the most part will have us all at his feet asking what must I do to be safe that's what I believe that's what we believe it and hopefully I'm an example of that in the earth not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but doing the best I can because some people may never see God until they see me are you or my sister or my brother so we just have to be the best reflections of him as possible you know I think that one I think that's actually probably the biggest criticism of religion it's like there why not why not just focus on again belief systems on being good on being altruistic on being better humans I think that's the important piece but and then and then also the other criticism as to look at old scripture and get and so much misinterpretation across the board with like old scripture and you I know you have a very you're you're known for not only interpretation of scripture that could be seemed outdated or or totally out of alignment with the times and I'm curious as to how how you work through some of those mental problems when you're trying to figure out okay this is scripture that at face value seems incredibly offensive based on like modern norms so I'm curious how you sort of reconcile outdated scripture or or scripture that seems outdated but also how do you apply some lessons from Old Testament New Testament any sort of religious text to the modern day present society yeah I think again we talked about the word of God not being technology right so it can never be outdated the stories that you read about are outdated right so the children of Israel in the wilderness and the red sea parting and and Daniel and the lion stand you know all of those things are ancient stories but I've never heard anybody say in the entrepreneurial space the principles of thinking were rich are outdated see they principles don't become outdated it is amazing how when it comes to religion we perceive that our book is outdated but people are still reading outwitting the devil they're still reading they can grow rich these books are are old right they're not thousands of years old but they're old principles don't become outdated because the calendar changes you gotta believe in Jesus Christ if you're going to go to heaven according to our faith you got accept him you got to believe in God that's not outdated that's actually judicious and it will be a thousand years from now if the earth remains um so but what I've learned to do is I've learned to get people out of the story itself and see how the story itself is applicable to their own personal way they so if there is a character in the bible that has been land on the bed for 38 years which is a story about a man who couldn't walk for nearly 40 years he sees Jesus Jesus says pick up your bed and walk then the man begins to walk now here is the application the man hasn't walked in 38 years Jesus says get up and walk and he does do it now to the modern person Jesus tells you to get up and walk are you going to give him excuses and say well I haven't done it in 38 years and you know maybe you should send me the therapy first so that I can see if I can do it and and perhaps perhaps if you got crushes I don't want to push this thing you know maybe you got a cane on some crutches so I can ease into it you're going to miss out on the miracle because if God told you to do it then he's already worked out the other circumstances that will keep you from being able to do it because he will never put you in a position where you don't have the strength to obey him so I figured out a way in my finite mind to take an ancient story make it applicable to today's times and hopefully when I'm preaching use to your self in the scripture and not the character that was in the original text I hope that makes sense I want you to see seven you in it no is is it your daughter who's sick Jay Iris's daughter was sick take him out forget his 12 year old daughter put your four year old daughter in there put your 10 year old daughter in there and when you when you when you focus on his principles and what he did to get God to heal his daughter then the question is will you go through the same thing to get him to heal yours what are your thoughts on what are your thoughts on all these other spiritual outlets that people take on I don't I don't even know them but I'm thinking of what is not spiritual per se but it's a version of spirituality like people believe in astrology or things like this what is what is this what is this outlet that people are looking for yeah I think that people are just looking for answers and when there is no intimacy with God when there's a boy you'll listen to another voice you know because God is an astrologist he created stars in fact it was a star that showed the wise men where he was when he was born so he's in us he's an astrologist I think that we get in trouble when we look outside of God for solutions that's that's really what it boils down to when you look outside of God for another solution to a spiritual matter then you're going down a road that leads to a dead end you know I do believe everything we're trying to figure out all the wisdom in the world has already really been figured out and we're just trying to reinvent the wheel a lot of the time um you know you know scripture it must better than me can you give an example of wisdom that is thousands of years old that honestly would probably replace you know thinking grow rich or any other like modern tax that we're trying to study and learn how to build the business or build a life or develop personally because I know that all the stuff is already there let me tell you so and I'm an entrepreneur by the way you know I I own businesses um you know I'm an author uh which we're going to talk about I'm going to talk about that I want to talk about that I want to talk about some lessons in the books I believe in this not now Paul who wrote half the New Testament was a 10 maker he was a businessman so I believe in business I would tell you this most every book on business that I've ever read was like the book of Proverbs all of the biblical principles that Solomon who was the work wisest and richest man to ever live wrote in the Proverbs the 31 Proverbs that he wrote I find that most business principles are actually biblical principles that don't get credit to the original source I I've seen it over and over and over again when you read thinking grow rich which is which is a you know probably a hundred year old book maybe everything that Napoleon he wrote in that book you can find Solomon saying in previous times in different ways so I don't think that there is much disassociation between business and Bible I just seem that we sometimes get afraid to get our business precipice from a Bible because of the over inundation of religious thought that we have an association with it but God God lights business he he lights business he creates business men and I am not one who subscribes that all business men are evil I was talking to a wealthy businessman one day and when I say wealthy when I say wealthy I'm not talking about it's God I'm not talking about a million dollars in the bank account I'm talking about a person who makes two million dollars a day very wealthy very well and he came to me and he said I just I'm just afraid said why he said because the Bible says that it is more difficult for a rich man to get to heaven than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle and I looked at him and I thought to myself look at what religion did to him because he's thinking about a needle a pin needle it's trying to get an entire camel through it and what that scripture was actually referring to is a hole in the west wall in Jerusalem and every time that he would cross through this hole in the wall their camel would have to come to the hole in the wall and take all of the possessions that the owner packed on the back of the camel so that the camel could go through this hole in the wall and the hole in the wall was called the eye of the needle so the Bible says it is harder for a rich man to go through the eye of a needle than the camel is harder for a rich man to enter into the kingdom than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle it wasn't talking about something that was impossible it was talking about something where you have to care more about getting through to God than you are trying to bring your possessions with but see if we don't explain these things then we will have a biblically illiterate generation that presupposes a misinterpreted text which makes God look mean and makes God look unaware we have to interpret him correctly so that we all know that there is room in the kingdom of God for the poor and the rich for the entrepreneur and the employment for the business man and the man is trying to do business there's room for us all if we have the right heart because I think that's that's I had no idea but I've heard that I've heard that saying before and the the misinterpretation must be wild because just like everything else misinterpretation at social media it's the most viral you know tweet that gets sent out to millions of people and then all of a sudden this is what's now taken as as as as truth when it's not which is I mean that's a whole other that's a whole other we could talk all day on that one but that's I have no doubt okay let's talk about let's talk so I mean you've the two the two books that you've written so the shift in lazy love and lazy love is the most recent correct if I'm not mistaken yeah so lazy love is the most reason so the shift speaks about transition it speaks about discomfort it speaks about a whole bunch of different things about people going through hard times but lazy love is is more or less focused on relationships from what I understand and I think that I want to I want to understand first of all I always like asking authors like why are these out of all the problems that you see in your congregation why are these the particular issues that you decided to spend because I know how much effort it is to write a bunch it's not easy so you consciously are like this and this is what I want to dissect this is what I want to unpack why is that you know Scott this world is sold me this world is so mean the world that at my daughter your children are growing up in is so mean and the Beatles had it right all you need is love I'm serious I seriously believe the scripture you can say it's love covers a multitude of sin love is the most fundamental strongest answer to every question you and I have been debating about our you've been listening to me discuss and some of your artist members will say I get some of that yeah I don't get it that I'm fully aware of that but God is love that's what the scripture says so deciding to tackle this I didn't look at it as trivial in comparison to all of the other eels the world is faced with this is the main issue this is the main issue this the lack of love is what makes our politics so mean the lack of love of is what makes a person grab a cake 47 and go shoot up a the lack of love is why shows like neighborhood wars and different shows like that are can exist where you see neighbors fighting over garbage cans being over property lines I mean are you kidding me we're watching this on television the lack of love is the reason why you can watch a viral video online and and it's I personally don't like to make fun of people and I personally don't like to be around people who do I personally am maybe for the underdogs so if I see somebody being made fun of and I know it's me my daughter my 12 year daughter she got in trouble in school the other day I said what happened she said well they were making fun of my friend and I got them straight and I said nor she got that from she got it from me I have to be honest with you so this is the main issue this is the main issue love this is it there is nothing else there was nothing else to talk about so when I decided to do it I thought it would help the world and I knew that I had to include personal relationships in it but this book helps you with every type of relationship of mental relationships with yourself spouse boss child it's the fourth threats to rebuilding and reversing any relationship problem that you may see yourself in I just want to take a second to thank the sponsor of today's episode HubSpot now HubSpot has an incredible podcast network success stories part of it and if you like success story you're gonna love other podcasts in their network one of my favorites is i digress is hosted by Troy Sandage what Troy does exceptionally well is in under 30 minutes he helps eliminate complexity complications confusion in your business he talks about frameworks strategies that really work to help you achieve scalable and sustainable success so you need to go listen to i digress one of the most useful podcasts for entrepreneurs and founders part of the HubSpot podcast network wherever you get your podcasts why lazy love because most love is lazy it is such a difficult thing to accomplish real love self sacrifice to love somebody who hurts you to love somebody who offends you to love somebody who doesn't mean you any good and you still have to show up in a loving spirit it takes a lot and I've discovered through my research through through the Bible and the Bible says that he brews six and ten it says that I would not happy to become lazy in your working in your love and when I read that sips I thought most people use the word lazy and it's typically about work ethic but it is hard to forgive and you can't be lazy when you do it I talk in the chapters about the word forgiveness and the four threats are the lack of forgiveness the lack of communication the lack of misunderstanding the difference between sex and intimacy right the lack of communication that there's all of these these different threats and and when I got to the lack of forgiveness part I talk about how the word orgiveness I wanted to change it to beforegiveness it's called forgiveness but it's really before it's like the forehead not Apple you are or hit so the forehead is called the forehead because it is foremost it's the beginning before the body begins you have to get to the forehead so forgiveness cannot come after pain before forgiveness has to come before you hurt which means I have to decide that I am a forgiving person even before I'm a hurt person trying to forgive somebody after they hurt you is like trying to build an airplane in the air it has to be built before it takes off so that's the substratum of the book and that takes a lot of work while lazy love because I would say 90% of us if not more that's that's the kind of love we're practicing the kind of love that just easily says you know what you hurt my feelings so I'm done with you the kind of love that says you know what I don't feel like having to talk today I don't feel like compensated the kind of love that you tell your spouse you know what she says honey what's wrong nothing oh me and we got it bad nothing what's wrong nothing you want to talk about it I'm good that's lazy I can't remember who came up with this idea but I thought it was so brilliant it was the relationships that survive and it was in a relationship like romantic husband wife context but it can be any relationship the relationship to survive is whenever there's a disagreement as opposed to being repaired to 99% it's repaired to 101% that's the general context because when the relationship is just repaired to 99% it's like death by a thousand cuts over a period of time it's never repaired whole again and it's so interesting because I'm sure as a spiritual leader a lot of people come to you with their their relationship problems and you talk about like lazy lover you just mentioned that's the issue that causes people to in 5 10 15 20 years split up and break apart and hurt the family and go their separate ways so in a romantic context even in like a business relationship friendship context out of all the people that you spoken to what is the secret to repairing relationships to 101% outside of just what you just mentioned before getting into a disagreement saying I'm going to be a forgiving person because it's I think it I think it's easier to say that than to do that because once you could say that and then something happens then you're like shit now I actually have to be a forgiving person and I think that that's where a lot of people fail yes so I think that the easiest way to get there and I think there's several ways to the end of that role but I think that what I've discovered is copious amounts of communication obviously we are human beings not human doings so we have to give ourselves credit that it takes time to become anything and so don't beat yourself up if you get it right once and then get it wrong five times after that you're going to get there eventually this is not about perfection this is about you know doing your best and then I would say you know for people who think that it's easier said than done but there's nothing can be done until you start doing so if you're going to stay on the easier said than done side and never do did it'll never be done you got to try you got to you've got to give it some effort you got to say you know what the thing that I am doing isn't working so let me try somebody else's and then here's the second thing Scott I think that we have to obliterate this this new failed 50 50 rule in relationship I think this is the real issue because if you have had a rough day you probably don't have 50% to give to your spouse so it's not about meeting me in the middle it's about meeting me where I am and when we are intimate and when I send the book intimacy really means intimacy see what you see into me you recognize something's off today ah you know he only has 70% today I'm going to give the 30 tomorrow you may have 10 but because we are intimate I see it and I'm going to bring the 90 so I'm going to meet you where you are and not in the middle because if you've got 30 and I meet you in the middle then there's 20% that's still left undone so we have to give rid of this 50 50 thing and I know people mean it in financial ways but I believe that they mean it in a lot of other ways too it's not even financial even financially if if if you've carried your wife for 13 years at 100% and you follow hard times she should be willing to do 100% until you can rebound this 50 50 madness has us in a position of waiting said okay I did my part when are you going to do the rest meet a person where they are and not in the middle and that's true that's true love that's a true that's true that's the opposite of lazy what are the talk there's four types of love and I guess these are I guess older principles the the Greek types of love that you speak about and I I don't want to mispronounce these so because I don't speak Greek but what are these four types of love because I've never heard of these before I think it's fascinating how do they affect relationships so there are these the Greek words and so the first one is agape agape is the kind of love that describes the human divine connection like it's it's the love that God has for for mankind in spite of his wickedness and evilness he loves him anyway that's agape then you have story gay which I believe you're looking at you have and you have paleo and so let's talk about paleo this is an easy one so so your readers are listening to get this in their mind paleo required is where we get our English word Philadelphia it means brotherly love which is why Philadelphia is the city of brotherly love so paleo is the love I have for you as my brother and the love you have for me mutual respect like I got sure back you got marked back though I'm I love you no matter what you love me no matter what then you have eros eros which is oh where we get our English word erotic right so this is where we find the difference between sex and intimacy in this eros love so they are I brought in the original words or as you refer to them the the older text words because the truth is is if we're ever going to solve our love problem we've got to get back to the original principles see right now love is this you look on Instagram and you see two people hold their hands and and and I saw this this is probably the grossest thing I've ever seen I saw a picture of a toilet that was like a double toilet and and and it's talking about if you ain't willing to sit on the other side then you don't love to sit this is we're reducing something so strong to something so silly like if if we're not holding each other and kissing each other in the face and holding hands 24 hours a day if it ain't that kind of love I don't want hashtag out of order hashtag we've got to get back to the original principles of love and what is that am I willing to sacrifice who I am and what I believe I deserve or your benefit even if I get nothing in return where I got the title lazy love from is in the text that I told you about Hebrew chapter six it says that I will have you not be lazy I looked at the word slow it says slow for in the original language while I looked up the animal the slow there's some interesting research on the sloth and found out that we always see it moving real slow you know our sloth is already moving I'd ask myself why is this animal move the slow I mean is no other animal does this why is it moving slow this a research you can find this out that sloths in and of themselves are not actually slow animals the leaf that they eat in the wild in their diet actually contributes to the slothfulness because they're they're literally high as a result of the chemical interaction of the leaf with their system so when you see them moving slow they're under the influence of their diet and that's when I realized that when people find what I'm what I'm saying difficult to understand is because they are they have to contend with what they digest whole rage the attached response what did you see growing up as a child what did relationship look like in your household because that's what informs you psychologically and what I'm saying maybe foreign to somebody doesn't mean is wrong it could be the leaf they're eating it could be the tree that they eat from all of their life which contributes to how their mind works when they hear information introduced that's not that's not a part of the origin of how they think so that's I love that analogy that's a phenomenal analogy but I didn't know that of a sloth that's wild so a lot of it is is deep programming and unlearning and there's some childhood trauma that gets wrapped up into all this it sort of stops you from learning new ideas new lessons when somebody genuinely wants help because like you said before if somebody doesn't want to help that if somebody doesn't want to improve their life it's very hard to get through to them but when somebody has all these traumas or all these preconceived notions or how their parents treated them or taught them or how their past relationships went or how they look on social media and they see this performative version of love as opposed to authentic a real love this lazy version of love is probably the best way to put it um what's the what's the the strategy to to wake yourself up to to to sort of reprogram yourself to unlearn all the stuff that's holding you down that's a great question so there are um beasts for ideas called attachment styles and attachment styles suggests that in order to deep program ourselves we have to find out how we would pre-program and that every person alive learns love from the people who raised it okay so now what happens is my father was a semi professional football player who was divorced once remarried once separated and then met my mother my mother had been divorced and met my father so you're talking about three divorces and two people who are not married when they conceive me now how do you think love was prescribed and described to me without communication just for me observing as an infant and a toddler how do you think i observe love well first of all my father's been divorced so he's heard my mother's been divorced so she's heard they're not married they don't live together i don't know who my father is until i'm 12 years old i never heard him say i love you until i was 12 years old i never heard him tell me he was proud of me until i was 12 years old so i went a decade plus two years without any male affirmation and now i've got a mother who's raising the single son who's divorced so my attachment style is connected to how she loved me in her own pain you have anxious attachment style you have ambivalent attachment style you have a good one called secure attachment style and this is this is not me try to be a therapist this is letting you know that is impossible until if you're going to deprogram and relearn it is impossible to learn how to love until you go back and find out how you were loved and this is so important when you show up in your relationships with your spouses because instead of arguing and fighting which we all do what we should be doing is interviewing mothers and grandmothers and and cousins and stepfathers and find it out how Susie was when she was three so you can learn how to show up for her when she's 33 if you don't go back it is going to be very difficult to go forward hmm because you speak about another another topic that you speak about lazy love is is active love versus passive love and this is this is part of that framework this is part of the active love because again if you just look at the way society kind of pitches us the idea of love and a relationship it should be natural it should be organic it should just feel easy it should feel like it just happens right because this is like this is what we believe growing up we're just going to find that person and it's going to be like happily ever after and I mean you've had relationships I've had relationships and whether or not their long-term short-term married not married girlfriend like it's never passive it's never easy it's if you think it's easy it's not going to last which is basically the takeaway and it's not Romeo and Juliet it's not me standing in the garden of flowers looking at Juliet hurts on a balcony with with long hair curated by herbal essence and I you know it's it's somewhat as stuff is in it but at the end of the day this isn't a script these are two people coming together who were loved imperfectly trying to figure out how to love each other perfectly which is a very difficult exercise and you have to be active so that you don't fall into the trap of lazy love I want to I want to because you are obviously you know you you you help people with a lot of different problems but the two things you kind of spoken about today were spirituality and love and these are kind of the two things that you're you know you're focused on now you teach over to your congregation you probably help a lot of couples and private so what is one commonly held belief about both of those so what about spirituality then what about love and relationships that is not true wow I think that they'll start the end one of the things about love or relationship that is not true is that you'd all find happiness in the relationship I just I just see so many people say I just want to be happy I tell people if you're if you're looking to a relationship to make you happy it's not their relationships and then of themselves do not house happiness happiness is an inside job you have to come with it or you have to develop it over time but if you're ever going to be happy it's an inside job you have to start from within you and it is possible when you do it that way to be happy even if you are in relationship with an unhappy person that's number one number two the same is true of religion the misnomer is that we're perfect over here just listen religion and faith is as filled with imperfect individuals as those who are not religious are fakeness that we're not super humans we don't have anything that you cut me out bleed right if you if you if you partially I'm probably going to swing back you know I mean it's just it's just it's the human nature of things and so you don't become religious to be better you accept God so you can be saved from the consequences of hell this is what this is you accept God because you believe that there is another place that you get to go after it's over and in the process of that you do the best you can to follow his laws and mortars excuse me the follow his laws and morals and to make sure that you do the best that you can to make him proud of who you are that's like that's to go it's not to be a superhuman or you walk around and people can just see the halo above your head and you know floating on clouds and everything it's God bless you brother like you're really not going to reach real people if you don't have any realness left in you my biological father and pastor you should say you know the problem with most people is there's soul heaven bound that they are no earthly good just so focused on heaven that you forget that you have to be an example for people on the earth before you get there so those are the two answers that I have to the question I'm not sure if they met the criteria good or with us that's very first of all this is a podcast there is no criteria I appreciate this is just this is just good ideas and good thoughts um yeah exactly you know there's no criteria for this I love all of this um if you were going to I mean you know you you put a lot into this book but obviously you're always evolving and changing and you're seeing new problems and new opportunities and people are coming to you with new ideas what's one thing that you wish you kept in the book or put in the book that you didn't don't know if I have anything that I didn't put in there that I are or it could be something that come up recently that that ties into these two topics that is more more relevant in 2024 with elections around the corner and global financial stresses and hmm either I really don't know I would damn they didn't know it's good it's good it's good it's not something to be a trick question sometimes people have these like these things just pop up in their life that are so so relevant and and really tie into the topic or they they're setting the scene for probably the next piece they're going to work on things that you know people are asking you to solve for them that as a religious and spiritual leader that they you know you think that more people need need that wisdom or that insight yeah I think I do have a couple of the books uh hopefully you and I get to talk about uh in the future uh that are already uh on the table but as far as this work is concerned I think I put everything in it that I needed to um the only thing that I didn't do that I wish I would have thought of in the beginning was to accompany it with the workbook because I think that the uh issues in it are so complex that it would be good for people to kind of work it out as they're reading through it and just uh put a workbook with it that's my all the regret but as far as the content of it I think we gave it all we had good good um what's one idea that I didn't bring out that you think is important for people to know you know read most of the podcasts and interviews that I've been doing in and around this book um and this is something you didn't do and and I'm not saying it's right or wrong um most podcasters they find hot topics and then they ask me questions about hot topics and and you have to be very careful because you know they're looking for a viral moment and and all that kind of stuff I hope I hope the interview ended up as self as viral and we all have to say anything crazy to keep people to watch it but listen dude I always try and focus on on good content and teaching people and and helping them improve I don't think the viral does that the contents good the contents good yeah I appreciate that but um you know one of the things that I've been asked um over and over is like what happened what do you think about when this person said this and what what do you think what another person said this and you asked me why did I write the book about lazy love and and Scott is because I just want to find out why are we always fighting I'd about everything we can't let the president without fighting we can't we can't talk about reproductive rights without fighting we can't talk about voting without fighting we can't talk about education without fighting we can't we can't talk about uh international policy without fighting we can't talk about religion without fighting we can't if you say one thing about relationships that somebody's going to come say that's not true you can you can't talk about women's rights of men's rights if you talk about men's rights then they're going to say what about women's rights if you talk about women's rights what about men's we can't I just wish that we would love each other more and just fight a little less because after we finished fighting each other after we finished castrating all of our leaders after we finished exposing and counseling everybody we're going to look up and we're going to need a leader and everybody's going to say where is the leader and we're going to have to ask the society understand that we contributed to the disintegration and fall of so many great men and women who were no worse than the people who destroyed them and that that that's what I really believe um this world needs to take a real real clear and hard look at it's okay to disagree it's okay to say I think what you believe is absolutely ridiculous I'm not going to try to destroy who you are in order to prove that point that's why I wrote this book and hopefully if it just helps 1% which is an audacious goal if it helps a percent of a percent if a thousand people said you know what I got it that I would have made the world a bit of the place and um I'll be proud with it I like that a lot that's a great that's a great thought because you know I've actually even thought about why do why do more people not go into politics and why do more people not put themselves in the arena are afraid to death that's the answer and it's not that they're not good leaders is that they couldn't withstand the scrutiny of people who would expose them but it's easy to expose a person when you're behind the camera but you just step yourself in front of that list and see what people could find out about you and it would change the game I think that there are some people who don't deserve to lead and I think that there are some people who have done some horrific things and and for us not to follow them it's absolutely uh I propose in these days and times but I'm talking about when we make assumptions with no facts and yet we make decisions you know I was talking to one of the bloggers and these uh podcastes and I said to that person I said you know it's very difficult to listen to somebody who covers the outrage that didn't cover the story I think the world has to get better on that end and I think I think we will I'm hopeful that we will probably not anytime soon but I think we will one day and the world will have better place because we've got to leave this thing in a better place for our kids um and and it's ugly out there right now well one book out of time that's what does it does it um where can people go to connect with you where do you want to send people do I mean the book's going to be Amazon everywhere you can buy books for sure but you can buy books um and if you want to follow our journey you can go to at Pastor Keon on Instagram and Keon Henderson on all other platforms at Facebook X um and just look us up and follow the journey with us and uh you know that's for me sometimes actually me responded to the comments people say is that really you like yeah that's really it's really it's called social media not administrative media right so yeah that's me I love it um okay if you were going to leave the audience with one last piece of wisdom um some some advice that you would tell your younger self what would that be I would tell my younger self that you are born look at like your parents but you die looking like your decisions and wherever you say no and wherever you say yes is a reflection of where you end up and so if you don't like where you ended up then you get a chance to say to know where you say it yes then you get a chance to say yes where you say it no I love that I love that Pastor Keon I appreciate you man I appreciate you for coming on I appreciate you for having this chat and I appreciate all all the goodness you're putting down to the world so don't stop this has been one of my favorite interviews of this entire series since the month of August began and um I want to say to you and your audience man you're doing fantastic work keep it up now I love your energy and uh I'm grateful to be all with you and and and hopefully we get to do it again