How to Podcast w/ S2 Show & Stephanie Saunders #scottsthoughts

Welcome to Success Story, the most useful podcast in the world. I'm your host, Scott DeClaire. The Success Story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network. The HubSpot podcast network has incredible podcasts like the Martek podcast hosted by Benjamin Shapiro. Each week, the Martek podcast tells the stories of world-class marketers who use technology to create lasting success with their businesses and careers. If any of these topics sound interesting to you, I want you to go check out the Martek podcast. How science is changing advertising, how to set up a CRM so you actually use it, private equities take on digital transformation, why big social is focused on newsletters. If these are topics that resonate with you, go listen to the Martek podcast wherever you get your podcasts or you can go to HubSpot.com slash podcast network and listen to it there. Today, you are going to hear me on the S2 podcast hosted by Stephanie Saunders. We spoke about how to podcast. This is super meta, but I really hope you enjoy it. Let's jump right into it. Me on the S2 show hosted by Stephanie Saunders. You're listening to the S2 show, a podcast where you can listen, learn, and be inspired by professionals. Welcome to the show. I'm your host Stephanie Saunders. On the S2 show, I interview some of the world's number one experts. My goal is to help you by giving you a glimpse inside the climb to their success and give you a sneak peek into our guests behind the scene stories to help shed light on the journey. After each episode, you should have actionable steps to apply on your road to building your empire. Expect to hear from real estate moguls, founders, CEOs, authors, and influencers. Let's get started. Welcome to the show, Scott Clary. Thank you for having me on. I'm super, super excited to be here. I'm new and you're like the pro with your 20,000 downloads for episode. So I'll show you around Miami. I'll introduce you to a bunch of people. You teach me how to be a pro podcasting. Yeah, sounds good. I like that. I'm down with that. This is not the reason why I came down to Miami. So I can network like a me people and then I'll give you all the marketing advice. I'll give you all the podcast growth tips. I'll tell you what I'm doing with my show right now that's successful and what what isn't successful. And you do a lot of this stuff anyways. I see I see your brand on social. You're killing it. Like don't sell yourself but you know what it's also new for me and only and I had never I have to be honest I never really I was I was the consumer. I never had any interest in I never understood the value but I was the consumer right. So when the pandemic happened it was like I was forced to make a decision like am I going to go ghost for a year and a half or am I going to like shove myself into everyone's face. So that's the only reason. So listen, there's so many things to learn in marketing. It's like it could be like a rabbit hole you know. It can also yeah but there's also endless amounts of things to learn because not only do you have all your traditional things that I don't even know a lot about like I'm not an expert in print. I'm not an expert in television like these are like television commercials and the traditional marketing and advertising. I'm more an expert in digital and social and I'm not even an expert. I'm constantly learning and that's that's so difficult. There's always new things to learn about. So I would say like the number one thing the number one takeaway from anything you hear today that we chat about it's that there's no end game. There's no there's no finish line and if you ever think there's a finish line that's when you'll start to fail as a marketer because you just won't get it. You won't get the next thing right. Sure. So what's interesting though about that point is then when do you find like I get so excited when I'm learning new things right. So I found like to be so intrigued which is it's really fun. So that means you know you're liking it right they say you have to have fun doing what you're doing. It's like I have fun learning all this new stuff but then every day it's like oh sales funnel this like click this that it's like so then I I can't sleep because I'm like this thing it's one o'clock in the morning I just found this new thing and I'm up and I'm like reading and like I'm married like I'm also I want to be a good wife it's a new thing and like I don't know how your mindset is the is the your mindset is the perfect mindset for somebody who wants to build their own thing because you're curious you're super curious right but it's dangerous. It is because you get obsessed with it you get upset on the same way I get obsessed with learning stuff yeah and and it's just like you have to manage your you know your spouse your if you have kids I don't know yet but like you know one day you're gonna have kids and you have to manage all that because and that's also what people say like if you if you love being like an entrepreneur so to speak and you love building things and you love learning new things that's why you should try and do it when you're younger so that you have some success and then you know it works and then you can't outsource you can pay people to do things for you because you don't have to do it all yourself don't learn all yourself sure and you you know how to balance it so you know how to balance yeah we won't say you don't get as excited but you've been through that like really excited phase yes yeah you'll still get as excited you'll always get as excited and you know I know people that have exited companies entrepreneurs that have exited companies and they they never have to work another day and then their life and they'll sit around for a year and they'll just start building something again right it's a personality trait I think entrepreneurship at his core is personality right that's what success so let's talk about that because you okay so you have a nine to five and you're doing all of these other things yes so do you want me to give you a I don't mean to give you a rundown so I do want to get a rundown on record before you do what do you think that's that's about yourself because you probably don't need to have a nine to five but do you think that you like the challenge of having the layers of the the different options of businesses what's the that's a great that's a really great question so let's let's be candid with this the nine to five that I have pays very well it's a very comfortable nine to five and and I don't you know I don't bite the hand it feeds me I still make sure that I'm doing that nine to five very well and that usually means that right now I can manage the side hustles and the podcasts and the writing content and all of that because I don't have kids if I had kids right now I don't think I would be a very responsible father doing as many things as I as I'm doing but that being said so why do I keep the nine to five well the nine to five when I first got into the nine to five and if you you know you go through my career it's been working for companies I took a step back I did what I think you're doing now building your own marketing firm you're doing you know your own thing and then I actually went back into working for a company the name of the company was exciting at the time and they wanted somebody to help bring software products to market because they were looking at a deal with Grass Valley at the time to say listen Scott can you just like show Grass Valley that our products have value or a team of developers we want to bring these like more enterprise products to market and it was a challenge it was a lot of fun and there was a lot of opportunity there because I was really in with the founder the you know co-founders actually CTO and a product founder and they didn't have really anybody that strong sales or marketing backgrounds a lot of opportunity and that's a great you know that's a great notch on my belt that's a great add on my resume right like be able to build a startup and be able to exit and just recently we did exit so you know we did exit and now I'm part not an employee of Grass Valley and I'm still building that out so it was part challenge at the time when I took that challenge on my side hustles weren't really making any money at all so it was also necessity too like it was like do I want to I was entrepreneur I was doing my own consulting and then I pivoted back into working for somebody and it was just about the fact that I I wanted to I loved entrepreneurship I loved building my own thing but I also realized that maybe I was working a lot and I wasn't working with the right partners when I was doing my own thing and I found that this isn't working this version this iteration of entrepreneurship for me isn't working I know that I want to build my own thing in the future but I don't think this I don't see division I don't see the long term so okay let me take that energy and an entrepreneurial spirit whatever you want to call it and inject it into a company that I can sort of align with we're all aligned we can really you know really crank it I really ramp it up like and and and do something incredible and that's that's what I've been doing for the past two and a half years and now we you know that we we hit that pinnacle we we reached that point where we exit that sort of the that's what every entrepreneur wants to do I wasn't a founder I wasn't a founder but I was the person who was leading the commercial you know all the all the revenue all the growth all of that and so it's that was a lot of fun for me it was a big challenge right but it pushed me I learned new things and if I ever do something in the future and by the way learning the things while growing that you'd be hard pressed to say that didn't also help me grow my own things because I learned the lessons I see what works I see what works at scale because now I have budget so I can test that scale and then I can apply those learnings of course to the product that I'm you know actually the company that I'm working for but also apply those lessons the things that I'm trying to grow myself how to market newsletters how to market podcasts how to you know publish the best content on social so you learn with the company you learn and you can apply that to yourself if you choose not everybody chooses to build their own brand or do their own thing but I did I do and and now I'm at a point where we're growing really quickly the the company that acquired us really values my team and myself and I'll see where it takes me and you made a good point I don't know when that point is where you just say you go full-time into doing your own thing but we're growing at a rate right now so quickly with it's broadcast this broadcast software so it's software meant for the broadcast industry the broadcast industry is a very legacy old school industry and it's it's right for disruption so because I'm there and I'm seeing it happen in real time it's hard to walk away from that because it's so exciting and you know there's something here to be said about not being afraid to you know take the opportunities that are in front of you like I think we all get set on this like mindset where it's like no I have to pursue this because I want to be independent but it's like it is okay so I often talk about how I don't like nine to five but I did the 10 years and I have this resume and I have these relationships that have benefited me so you took the opportunity or are taking it to have those names with you to make your mark in that space and you're just growing I admire being able to fulfill both roles because not a lot of people are able to understand both sides of it yeah I agree and I think that I think that because I have the entrepreneurial ability within this company and they trust me and they value me and I'm allowed to do what I want to do and what I'm doing is successful I enjoy it yeah if I didn't do it I'm sure I could double down on the other things that are making me money and grow them quicker but right now in my mind I look at the ROI of both and the ROI of the other things so the podcast the newsletter the personal brand or whatever I want to build for myself in the future that's only going to be greater if I have an incredible career story to go with it you look at the people that are the most prolific like I look at like Tom Billy who did like quest nutrition and then he grew that I guess exited and now he's a personality yeah I still want to chase a very big career win and I have had significant career success so that's not the point but this is like I'm right I'm in it and I'm living it I just don't want to let it go just yet and if it doesn't come to anything then I do have other things that I could double down on and we'll see but right now it's exciting this is that's great advice though you don't often hear this perspective anymore I really I feel like oh I'm an entrepreneur and like sticky with it even if I'm failing you know and even then what like you know it felt miserably and you don't want to have your tail between your legs and go to a job because you don't want to seem like you're a failure but it's like hey this is part of it it's okay it is part of it you're that the hundred percent okay yeah and I would actually recommend that the how has podcasting yeah really been for you because you have really crushed it you said you have 20,000 downloads in episode now how long did it take for you to get to that point roughly two years to get to that point pretty is I spent I spent a fair amount of money trying to grow and market that's fair amount of time and then I also had the advantage of knowing how to book great guests knowing how to sell myself my podcasts I come from a sales and marketing background knowing how to disseminate content across all social platforms so I had that advantage already and I was already good at doing the sales and marketing aspect of any product because if you know how to sell yourself you know to sell product out of market product you can apply those learnings quite quickly and you can really increase your ramp and then that's just the marketing piece but also getting like for example I think I got dyke how it's off you on my podcast on like in the first ten episodes I just know how to cold email quite well because I'm from a sales background so I was cold emailing like dyke how it's off you grand card on Anthony spare emoji you bring that cloud on and because I'm great at cold emailing I know how to get people attention I know to bring them in I know to sell them on the concept I could bring them in early I could get their names on the show and then all of a sudden you start to get that ball rolling so that also helped a lot but it's about focusing on it too like I know I don't know the stats but you look at anybody talks about podcast success I think there's say a million podcasts I've no idea how many podcasts are up say a million podcasts it's something like you know one percent of those podcasts have more than two episodes or some insane stat like that right so is it yeah I know what I'm doing so I could ramp up quicker I could get better guest quicker I could market a quicker but somebody just doing a podcast and learning everything from the ground up and not knowing anything about sales or marketing if they just stuck with it for 500 episodes they would still have considerable success and that's what people all way that's where people always fail it's because they just give up and you see a lot of entrepreneurs speak about this quite often the founder of app sumo no okay again he did a youtube video I think the video was called the great video to check out it's called how did you make your first million and he's interviewing entrepreneurs how they made the first million and a theme that keeps repeating is well I was making nothing and then all of a sudden overnight overnight I made everything there's this hockey stick growth curve when you've put in you know one two three four years of effort then all of a sudden all those results are compounding and you start to see success very rapidly very quickly and any entrepreneur is going to tell you that in any industry right a lot of it is just sticking with it and to segue on that it's funny you are you in club what a clubhouse I am I'm not great at I'm not great I'm trying I think it might have died you know like I think it was like really all the hype and rage for like a couple of weeks or months maybe but it was on ones and um Grand Cardone was on there and someone asked him the question like what did you do after you made your first million and he said I got scared and it was funny so you talk about growth right so consistency consistency you get where you wanted to be and then you feel like oh I made it and then all of a sudden you get scared because you don't know what's next so he said that he couldn't reach the next turtle and he wanted to you know make a few million so he got rid of all his money and basically invested it so it was making money itself right yeah and he acted as if he was broke again so he could reach the next level so but just an example of just keeping it going to consistently grow so you don't get comfortable and stop or give up right I agree and I actually love that I love that mindset it's like he almost like had to have like this this urgency and being able to and being able to create money again and to be able to create value and he just couldn't have that I guess for for him it was hard for him to like self motivate himself without that I don't have money in the bank looking at my checking account you know it's in the negative or whatever kind of fear that's very interesting Fred I don't I don't really you know it's funny I haven't heard grant much and I don't know if he has a podcast I've heard him on some episodes before but I think that real-time communication like listening to someone so on a podcast you really get the sense of who they are in a different way so when I heard him say that I was like wow like that was such great advice to give to someone who's like I've reached this certain point so I really enjoy podcasting I think people are starting to be more more aware since the pandemic of the the value in podcasting it's it's it's it's just more real it's less edited everything that I put out accept podcasts unfortunately it's just it's an edited version of myself right the LinkedIn post the YouTube videos that are you know I record for an hour cut it down to 10 minutes the reels tick tock all that it's all edited versions of the first and you try and put yourself you know when you edit yourself down regardless of whether or not you're trying to you'll always end up putting the best version of yourself for because you want that person to see it you don't want to you don't want to you want to cut the fluff but with podcasts with long-form content with like live content there's no cutting there's no editing it's just super raw and I think that people see value in that because they get to know the person versus because like you can't you can't fake it you can't fake it for an hour you can't fake for two hours you can't fake it live all the time and you can unfortunately fake it in short-form tweets or like you know you can have this like version of yourself you put out into the world but when you talk to somebody for an hour or two or whatever you look at the stuff on Joe Rogan like that's the person that's it they get they get they get shifted they get drunk and they just talk and that's who that person is and I love that yeah that's that's how I measure people like I just like talking to people I just like like getting to know them like one-on-one and you can't do that in short form right so I'm a newer podcaster okay and you're gonna teach me how to be a pro how many episodes do you have by the way uh 107 as of yesterday yeah well actually 107 published I have about 150 recordings right because you do you pre-record them and then release them which is great a great tip I learned in the very beginning I think I've like 30 ready but then each time I listen and I'm like was this in the beginning because I'm still the same thing but yeah I know I got better because I've gone the other end of the spectrum and I've pre-recorded too many and then you end up pissing off the guests that's what I've done I've done that too what do you recommend um you said expectations sure and I record about 10 right I try now and that like I just told you at 150 I like 40 that I have to post so obviously I'm not doing a good job of it I'm trying to push off guests and I'm telling them like okay just like you know September October I'll try and record you but um you just you just you just said expectations and you just communicate like at the beginning I was I recorded really great episodes great people and I was embarrassed because I knew that I had like another 30 episodes to play and I just would ignore their emails when they're trying to bug me right and we just like just like self-conscious thing and then I'm like listen I just started emailing like listen I'm sorry I just reported too many you're gonna go about at this date and they're like fine no problem right just try obviously respectful of the person right and I also ask them like is there a book release is there something kindly if not if it's evergreen and you don't care then it's fine I'll push you a little bit out but if there's something that's important to you then we'll work around that schedule and I try not to do more not when I get through all the ones that I've recorded I'm gonna try not to do more than 10 at a time just so if I record with you you're gonna be maybe like a month month and a half max right that's a good that's a good one yeah so a lot of people that I know that are like why are you doing this podcast like what's going on here so they're like well you know Joe Rogan and he just like comparing me to Joe Rogan I'm like listen he's a he's a he's the old Joe Rogan yeah it's the funniest thing that that is where like most people are referencing podcasts to me and I'm just like this is unfair you know like he's like a master I am not Joe Rogan stop trying to tell me you know you should do this like what he does so yeah you should also have your your own studio your own staff you know somebody doing live you know you know mixing the audio like yeah well one day but I do like I do like the studio live and I think there's something to be said like when I do these on zoom it's hard sometimes because even if I'm enjoying the conversation like I have lights in front of me like I just read like I go a little cross-eyed so you're doing you're gonna be in a studio soon right that's what I that's the plan so that is so all my episodes right now have been recorded virtually and I've gone through every tool I've tried everything and some I like some I don't like but the goal will be to move everything in person in a studio get people in pour them a drink if they drink and just relax chill you know I think that's the way that because that that's the best way to do that is the best one you can replace about that in-person conversation no you just can't yeah you just can't as much as you try as much as you try and have like the pre-phone calls like warm up to the person right and some people are like you're very charismatic it's easy to talk to you there's some people that are just hard to talk to that are just like brilliant people but just they're not comfortable right and you don't know the people right though right it's true so what are some of those tools that you use because I keep hearing about you need to know how to live stream live stream live streams you can go in and out and zoom and make like the person space bigger and I'm just like really like what I don't I don't do that yeah that's that's a lot of production tools that I use so I have right now I'm in the middle of moving so I don't have anything but normally I'll just have like a newer like lights on a stay like I have to just you know just lights I record everything through a Brio webcam I used to record through a DSLR but this was just easier and it's it's lightweight it records just fine yeah um uh which uh oh what's the name of the demo yeti mic um just a regular yeti mic you're using a sure that's another really good brand yeah you think yeti it's just easy it's just super easy the usb mic I I think that if you're just starting out let's go with the usb mic you don't need to get like a mic with like a mixer or an amp that like that's over I don't don't don't don't do that to yourself it's already difficult enough um I right now I'm recording with Riverside I was with zoom but Riverside does 1080 recording and also what it does so right now we're on a call and what zoom is doing it's compressing the audio compressing the video so when it's done it'll be good but it won't be great whereas Riverside it records audio on my end records audio on your end video on my end video on your end and then it combines them after the fact so it's like we're sitting in the same room in terms of quality but um yeah that's probably the best that I found so far and I tried a lot yeah that's cool and you do it um through your computer on the Brio yeah to sum my math yeah yeah I've heard some people use like a tv screen and they'll like live stream so that the other person is on another screening and then there it's it seems so complex I'm not very techy so I'm like this chord what what chord is that I don't know how to do this you can have like what they're probably doing is they're probably doing like dual monitors so that they can like right now I'm on a laptop I have my little Brio that I plug in but like I have to keep reminding myself to look up right because if I look at your face then I'm not looking at the camera like camera your face camera your face right so if you have a big monitor it could be noticeable probably on this one it's not so noticeable right but um yeah if you want to get a more professional setup and you had a studio or you had like a home studio you could do two monitors like when you're looking at somebody it looks like you're actually yeah when you're looking at somebody it looks like you're looking at them and doesn't look like you're looking away from the camera but I don't do that I don't find there's any point in it for the studio I want to I want to come into the studio when you have it set up I think yeah yeah so I'm I'm originally from Toronto right so it's going to be not unfortunately it's unfortunate you can't get a lot of guests in Toronto so I'm hoping that I can get some more in person some really great people in person in a studio in Florida um and in Miami that would be perfect and I think that's you know next next steps for the podcast so what's up with Toronto and no not very many guests what do you mean they keep they're not a lot of people in Toronto no no no you don't get like the the big names coming through Toronto is off right it's not in New York it's not an LA you might get them once in a while but if you're talking about big business personalities from the US right sure you don't get them as much so I want to talk about Toronto and the the whole things I talked to some on the other day and they were like I can't leave the country to travel because we're not getting vaccines here and hand it on we're on lockdown again so what's the deal because Canada is like super ahead of times in a lot of ways I mean Canada is great for a lot of things yeah and it is great um you know you talk about everyone refers to like healthcare everything's covered and whatnot this is incredible um right now in Canada we're we're running behind in terms of vaccination our supply chain is not great compared to the US we don't have domestic vaccine producers um so because everything slower it's just been a lot longer of a lockdown it's been no restaurants no hair cutters nothing for I don't know like almost two years now it's been tough and there's been periods where it's lightened up but ultimately people in Canada are disover it yeah they're just over it right now and you know as a Canadian you can probably go down in New York they're vaccinating tourists yeah in Florida they're vaccinating tourists you can just go to the states and just get vaccinated and keep living your life or you can wait another six months in your house in Toronto or in Canada rather and it's unfortunate because I don't like you know born and raised in Canada but they're just they're they're dropping the ball right now and it's unfortunate but it is what it is sure but I you know listen we I was just for the first time in a gym without a mask on yesterday so so thankful but like we're all kind of slow in our own ways but like I think we're we're inching towards the end of this uh finally fingers crossed yeah like I was very very fortunate I had over the course of the pandemic I collected a whole bunch of fitness equipment in my house in Toronto so I was okay I got some stuff on Facebook I got some stuff I like I got I got the most random whatever was left over in terms of fitness equipment um now now of course I can I can go work out in a gym it's a weird feeling but it's a good feeling it's a really good feeling I miss out a lot I was working out outside in a parking lot so we have like a lot of the people and I live in a condo a lot of people we use the same trainer and so he was doing like this rotation back to back in the parking lot so you'd see your neighbor you know everyone like bundled up trying to stay like and we were in the elements of South Florida for all seasons we had a real wincer this year for Florida like 40 degrees in the morning and so that's that's cold enough right to work out and so to be in the gym yesterday we're like looking in the mirror I'm like man I need a haircut like what what am I wearing well I just did a whole I did a whole underarm or order just because I was like wearing the most ridiculous stuff to work out and I had to like look normal again in real life so that's something that I've been just like getting used to now but but do you not have you don't have because I know in LA they have a whole bunch of outdoor gyms that popped up you know what they don't do that if we had them they would probably be here where you are in like on Las Olas I think there's one gym that's on a rooftop and then where they'd be in like Miami Beach but they closed you remember they closed the the beaches here in South Florida for a lot of the pandemic because that was where everyone was you know obviously going together and not pay attention to rules yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so so I guess yeah well I I wouldn't know any better because I wasn't here but like now it's just nice because you can go into a gym so yeah miss that miss that a lot I'm a you know I'm a I'm a big I'm very into health wellness working out like my whole my whole life I've played sports and obviously I don't play anything anymore but for me you know part of my professional life I need I need to be able to have like an outlet like something to go do something physical to go do I used to play Canada played a lot hockey played rugby in high school played a lot of tennis too and obviously always just like working out in a gym wherever I traveled and that's honestly I feel like for people that are stuck in condos don't have access to workout I don't know how you could do it if you were somebody paired about fitness and health and whatnot I think it's very difficult like mentally and physically right what happens to you what happens to your business even like just your production and your effort if you're not going to the gym for like a week it just it just see I've always focused on finding a way to work out so you know it's so it doesn't happen is what you're saying you never happen it really doesn't happen yeah because even when I was so during the move during during COVID excuse me went through a boat so I was in I was in a condo at the start of COVID moved into a house filled the basement with gym equipment and then moved again so when I was in the condo when COVID first started they they shut down the gym of course and I was I ordered some weights like some really really because nothing was available from any fitness store so I had to order some like you know weights from China like some really really crappy weights I had I remember I had a metal bar from an ikea shelf and I and I tried to put equal 24 packs of water bottles into two gym bags and put it on each side of the ikea shelf bar and that was like my deadlift my curls like I was doing like little bench presses and in this other in our second bedroom and I've always just found a way because and it sounds nuts until you talk to somebody who's always worked out yeah because it's almost like a little bit of an addiction to work out but um days that I don't work out I'm lethargic I'm tired by mid afternoon like you just don't want to do anything and you just it's like no endorphins no serotonin like nothing because you aren't getting that exercise you're eating you're feeling like crap um I I don't know how to measure yeah the the issues like the detriment to not working out but I know it's it's there right that's some serious dedication right there I feel like this whole experience with pandemic like really tested everyone who is physically fit or wants to be physically fit because if you're going to do it you can make it happen but you have to be creative you gotta be creative you gotta be creative you gotta be resourceful I've never used Facebook marketplace in my life but I couldn't find anything else anywhere else so for the first time on a basic marketplace found some people that were selling their old gym equipment alaga you know a 10x markup and i'm like whatever to me that's that's worth it I bought I bought this bike you know like a little bike for the patio and so grateful to find it was like a hundred dollars from amazon and I went on like a couple days later because the friend of mine said oh you need one of these or I need one of these please get me one it was like seven hundred dollars like a week later as it was through the river everyone wanted it yeah I know well you you were looking at like weights uh like little little dumbbells or whatever and they were like a hundred bucks for dumbbell it's crazy but you're right I think I think that that's probably the most important thing when you during the pandemic it was focusing on like keeping your mental health at an all-time high and not sinking into some sort of depression for me that was physical physical fitness yeah when I'm sick for a couple of days I'm extra miserable because I can't work out and I try to work out anyway even though I know I can yeah it's just torture so I'm like depressed because I'm not getting that that action my brain yeah so I that it's so funny when you talk to somebody who actually is into working out like the stupid shit they do and this but like every time I've ever had a surgery it's like I try and go back earlier like anytime a doctor like don't lift weights I'm like okay whatever like whatever like don't worry about it oh I just I just replaced my shoulder it's it's been I'm fine I'll do legs Ellie's whatever not a big deal I'll call you know so you're all you guys who are physically fit and work out like this are the same like I know I know a week goes by you you're in a sling you have stitches in your order you're like I can handle a couple of bench presses I got this it's like okay yeah yeah it's like I'm pretty sure it's like I'm sure there's like a psychological condition like it's not you're not all right there but like whatever it is what it is you know it's I've seen worse I've seen worse habits I've seen worse habits yeah that's funny yeah that's so funny but listen this has been awesome I cannot wait until you're settled in in South Florida yeah you're gonna have to do this again in a studio we'll do it in a studio for sure I'll give you we spent half a time talking about pandemic I know and we didn't even go into podcasting tips and whatnot but we'll do that we'll do that too we'll do like a two point out but you know what you gave some really valuable tips on kind of how you got started and what you've done and some of the resources too but let's yeah let's definitely do a two point out that first I'll give you I'll give you one more really great tip that's worked well for me because it's applicable to anybody marketing anything so when you want to market something say I want to market a podcast um where do I market it yeah you go across all the normal channels you know social whatnot but market it where your listeners already are so I have a podcast I'm getting other podcast hosts I'm trying to go on shows I'm getting them to shout out my podcast and we're doing trades we're doing shout out trades for podcasts and whatnot if I want to market my newsletter I'm advertising in other people's newsletters I'm just asking them to do like a swap can we just for one week I speak about your newsletter you speak about my newsletter because you're not when you're when you're marketing anything you're marketing the product but you're also marketing the medium so if I'm marketing a podcast I have to sell my own podcast I have to get you to buy into it but I don't want to have to convert you to be coming a podcast listener and then liking my podcast I want to take people that are already podcast listeners and like my podcast because that's way easier so anything I've ever marketed ever podcast newsletter anything you just try and find people that are doing that thing listening to that thing consuming that thing somewhere else and then just convert them into what you're doing it's just a way easier way to market that's great advice and you also recommend having sponsors yeah well that's that's what pays the bills so I do recommend I do recommend having sponsors I think that's a very so other other tools that I use for sponsors right now I don't have a dedicated sales team I use advertised cast they put your podcasts up they have a sales team that finds you the fine two deals of course if you get big enough people will come to you and they do as well but that's one way to sort of get your sales off the ground with the podcast I'll thank us some more but I can't I can't think I'll talk to my head but that's one that you should check out if you if you do have a podcast yeah go to advertise cast and no affiliate no sponsor there's just something I like to use and it works well right but one thing you just said their collaboration is is basically Keith but know the mediums to collaborate with and it's like in anything you're targeting it's all about collaborating it's all because okay there's two ways to get your message well I guess three ways you can pay for it you can have organic reach on your social or you can just collaborate and collaborating makes the most sense because what are you giving when you collaborate you're giving you know it's free real estate in your own show or you know you're talking about somebody's show or whatever you're providing value to somebody else they'll provide value back but it's not costly you anything because if I for example say I go you know do a swap with the podcaster and I say okay so we're gonna have I'm gonna talk about your podcast for 30 seconds at the beginning of my show you're gonna talk about my podcast for 30 seconds at the beginning of your show and we both have audiences of 10,000 people you know much of a cost to get 10,000 dedicated podcast listeners just podcast listeners to actually care about my show if I had to go to Facebook ads or something like that it's very expensive right it's it's extremely expensive and that in theory should be free and that's just you setting that up you just reaching out to people right that's it that's a good one well we're doing we're doing a number two thank you for joining us thank you for having me on it