Alex Tarnava - Drink HRW Founder & Inventor of Patented Hydrogen Tablets | How to Think for Yourself in a World That Wants You to Conform

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You said the idea for your company came from desperation.

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What were you desperate for?

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Identity.

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Salvaging my identity.

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People get stuck in asking, who am I?

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And the better question is, who am I becoming?

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We need to think about this and think about what we're doing today and how that leads us to become what we're going to be tomorrow and down the future.

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Today's guest is Alex Tarnava, an entrepreneur, inventor, researcher, and author known for his work in molecular hydrogen and health innovation.

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In this conversation, Alex shares his journey from personal health struggles to scientific research, entrepreneurship, and his philosophy on health, business, and thinking for yourself.

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What is your advice to that ambitious entrepreneur, that builder?

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Everything good in life is hard.

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You build your business by providing your value and service and showing you're better.

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So don't look for that big win.

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Look for a million small wins.

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I feel like you cannot do it by listening to existing knowledge.

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You can't build the biggest, most successful company just by copying what other people are doing.

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If you're a startup, don't hire someone with an MBA.

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They're trained to think like a multinational or the government.

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If every big competitor is doing something, don't do it.

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Do something completely different.

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MyFitnessPal is a success story partner.

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Now, everybody wants more energy.

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Everybody wants better sleep.

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Everybody wants to feel sharper during the day, to not hit that wall in the afternoon where your brain just checks out.

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And people try a lot of things to get there.

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So new routines, new supplements, better sleep habits, more coffee, less coffee, all of the above.

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And some of that stuff works, but the single biggest lever you have for how you feel on any given day is what you eat.

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It's not the most exciting answer,

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Nobody's making a viral reel about eating lunch, but food is the foundation, right?

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Your energy, your sleep, your weight, your recovery, how you perform at work, how you feel when you get home.

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It's the one input that touches everything else.

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Now, the problem is that most people have no idea what they're actually eating.

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They have a general sense.

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They can say, I eat pretty healthy, okay, but,

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How much protein are you getting?

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And how does that break down across your day?

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Are you eating enough in the morning?

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Are you stacking everything at night?

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Those details matter a lot.

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And you can't answer those questions without logging what you eat and looking at the data.

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And that's why I use the MyFitnessPal app, because you log what you eat,

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and it shows you exactly what's going on.

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Your macros, for example, that's just your proteins, your carbs, your fats, those are broken down by grams.

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And on premium, it breaks those numbers down by meals.

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So you're not just seeing one number for the day, you're seeing what breakfast looks like versus lunch versus dinner, and that changes things.

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Because your body doesn't run on daily averages, it runs on what you give it right now.

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The food analysis, another great feature, it shows you patterns across the week too.

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where things are consistent, where they start to drift, and you're gonna notice how what you eat impacts your energy and why you wanna stay consistent, and when you don't, why you start to feel like you're hitting walls in the afternoon.

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Now the food logging.

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This is where a lot of people think it's gonna be a whole thing, it's not.

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For example,

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I can say what I ate out loud.

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There's a voice logging feature and it's done.

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Or I can scan a barcode of something I ate, two seconds.

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There's also a meal scan where I just point my camera at a plate and the app captures exactly what I ate and all the macronutrients.

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And MyFitnessPal has the largest food database out there.

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So whatever I'm eating,

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is already in it and it remembers what i eat regularly also it connects with over 40 fitness apps and wearables so everything goes into one spot all of my health wellness and nutrition so if you've been trying to figure out why your energy dips in the afternoon or why you're not sleeping as well as you used to or why you just feel off and you can't put a finger on it look at your food first before you buy another supplement or you try some other hack

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The answer is usually in nutrition.

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And this is the easiest way that I found to actually see what's going into your body and track it and pay attention to it and improve it.

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So do yourself a favor.

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Go to podcast.myfitnesspal.com and use code Scott.

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That's S-C-O-T-T, all uppercase.

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That gives you 15% off MyFitnessPal Premium.

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One more time, that is podcast.myfitnesspal.com.

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Code Scott.

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That's giving you 15% off MyFitnessPal Premium.

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Alex, you said the idea for your company came from desperation.

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You were an athlete who couldn't train anymore.

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What were you desperate for?

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Identity.

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Salvaging my identity.

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Explain what happens when who you are no longer exists.

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So for you, it was an athlete that can no longer be athletic.

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And even though now you're healed and, but this was a journey you had to go on.

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A lot of people listen to this, our founders who

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their work is their identity.

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And when things don't go right, they feel like they've lost themselves.

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When things go perfect and they sell their company, they also feel like they've lost themselves.

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So it's interesting how identity is something that is so important.

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It gives us the power to do, but it's also the, it could be the Achilles heel can be the one thing that can destroy us.

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especially if we tie our identity to singular actions, right?

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Rather than a grander purpose, right?

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And I think people get stuck in asking, who am I?

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And the better question is, who am I becoming?

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Right.

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And we need to think about this and think about what we're doing today and how that leads us to become what we're going to be tomorrow and down the future.

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And so when I got a mystery virus, my brain was clouded.

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I couldn't read and write the way I wanted to.

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I couldn't compete in sports anymore.

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I lost my entire identity.

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And so I spiraled.

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And slowly when I worked my way out of that abyss,

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I started asking the different question, who am I trying to become?

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Because that person I was is gone.

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Who do I want to be next?

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How long did it take you to accept that though?

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A couple of years, a few years.

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That's a long time.

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I was working on my business, so I put everything into my business.

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So you were just sort of masking.

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Brought away from who I'd lost in my loss.

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People know you through Instagram, through your books.

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You have incredible content where you're teaching first principles, mental models, things that have sort of helped you on your journey.

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but I don't know if everybody knows your health story.

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And I was teeing up how we met because I do know your health story because we met at this event and we were chatting about it.

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But just for people to understand where you came from and how debilitating this was, maybe go a little bit into what happened to you.

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Yeah.

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So I had a totally different business.

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This was in my late 20s.

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It was making me enough money to live the lifestyle I wanted.

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I wasn't that passionate about it.

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There was issues with the business.

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I was passionate when I was starting it, but then I discovered the issues and some of the inextricable nature of humans that I hadn't considered in the business that were corrupting.

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my vision of what I wanted to do.

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And I was a little sour, but it was, again, giving the freedom.

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I was training four to six hours a day between CrossFit and martial arts.

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I was reading the rest of my time, reading science and philosophy.

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So I was living the life I wanted to live on

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And then I got hit with a mystery virus and there was a sequence of things that had happened.

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I competed in a CrossFit event a couple of days after having food poisoning, which was likely a mistake, led to like gastroenteritis happened right after that, then caught a virus that triggered an autoimmune response.

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I was absolutely wrecked.

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I had central nervous system fatigue, so I went from...

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you know, 54-inch plyometric box jump to unable to get airtime, you know, or 20 unbroken bar muscle ups so I couldn't do a chest bar.

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But my strength wasn't affected.

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I could still deadlift and squat and bench press like heavyweight.

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So it's very odd.

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And I felt the best when I was exercising, but it was like a chronic fatigue.

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I crash immediately after exercise.

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And so I was sleeping like some days, like 16, 18 hours, other days less, but I was sleeping like basically all the time that I wasn't active engaged.

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I actually had sudden onset narcolepsy.

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If I sat down and wasn't engaged for a minute or two, I'd just fall asleep.

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My C-reactive proteins, a marker of inflammation, were like 34 milligrams a liter.

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You know, that's a hundred times abnormal what a healthy 29-year-old should be at.

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And I was just suddenly anemic despite being on like a paleo.

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diet with like a lot of green vegetables and a lot of red meat and so it was wild that lasted a couple months um and again like my brain was so clouded i wasn't reading i wasn't writing i wasn't able to exercise and then the dust settled and i had the inflammation that attacked my joints that was the autoimmune part i had osteoarthritis and 11 joints so this is my left shoulder now it doesn't move it's bone on bone right my left hip is similar you know my hands are wrecked

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Yeah, I'm 41 now, so it really messed me up.

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And the doctors at the time, I was in Canada, which made things a lot worse.

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And I'm also Canadian, so.

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I've dealt with it as well.

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I've exited now, but I'm permanently disabled because of Canada.

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I have colleagues that had similar levels of arthritis, tore labrums after car accidents and their insurance paid them to get rapid surgery and stem cells and they've regrown back their joints.

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I would have years for, you know, an MRI.

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I had to pay 10 grand out of pocket for a specialist that determined I had the torn labrum, you know, from the arthritis in a car accident.

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And by the time

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These years passed.

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Basically, the arthritis had advanced too much and the government wouldn't approve surgery.

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So just advanced more and more and more until it's irreversible, not even stem cells will fix it or anything.

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You know, rewinding back to when this started, my GP at the time basically told me I had to quit exercise, never work out again, right?

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Put me on a thousand milligrams of naproxen a day and quarterly cortisone injections.

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And I just knew that was not a forever solution.

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So all the time I'd spent training and reading, I was just reading PubMed, just looking for anything to modulate the inflammatory response.

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And there wasn't really a word biohacking back then 12 years ago.

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It wasn't really a thing, but I was doing a lot of biohacks.

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I was going to those barrel cryo saunas that killed some people, right?

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And that got discontinued from asphyxiation and, you know, going to saunas and, you know.

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found hydrogen and found all these other things.

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You were so ahead of your time, though, in this space.

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But you were an entrepreneur through and through.

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You're like, if I have anything wrong with me, I'm not...

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I'm going to take charge.

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I'm going to take charge, figure it out.

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When I dove in, you know, to all these biohacks, and I was just desperate.

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I just was trying to do it for myself.

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Nine months later, roughly nine months, I think, I fainted at the gym a few times in a couple weeks span.

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I developed multiple ulcers.

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I wasn't processing my nutrition.

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I went back to the drawing board, was reading PodMed again.

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I found more research on hydrogen water.

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Pissed me off.

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I had this $5,000 machine that was nothing for me because as soon as I stopped the Nuproxin, my joints froze like overnight.

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Couldn't put on socks, couldn't put on a jacket.

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I was, inflammation spiked back up.

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And it just dawned on me, how do I even know what dose I'm getting or that I'm getting hydrogen water?

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I just trust the salesman selling this.

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Why was that the thing that you thought was going to heal you?

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After all this reading and all the research, you thought hydrogen water was the solution to all of your problems?

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I didn't.

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I was just scouring more pod matter online.

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And I saw another article on hydrogen.

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saying it could do these things I was looking for.

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But I had this $5,000 machine and it was really just my contempt and spite that I spent $5,000 that I decided to buy the full paper to read the methodology because I'm like, what are these assholes doing?

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Yeah.

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Right?

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There's this fraudulent, like it was making me mad.

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But then like as reading them like it dawned, I'm like, wait, they're not making this in the same way.

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that this machine I bought is working.

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And then, okay, they're reporting concentrations and dosing.

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What concentration am I getting?

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You found the concept.

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You bought the one machine on the market that could actually do this, but you realized that the way they were doing it was not in line with the research.

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Nine months later after I spent the money.

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Understand, okay, gotcha.

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So then like I, you know,

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found a reagent to test for it, and it was undetectable.

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You know, didn't detect any hydrogen.

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I had to triple the input so far below what we know is a minimum, their physiological effect, which gave me a bit of hope.

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And that's what I was looking for.

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I was just looking for hope.

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Can something bring me back to who I was?

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But anyways, I started doing R&D, started trying to make the hydrogen water myself, going through this extensive process, getting an elemental magnesium from Eastern Europe and China that was mislabeled.

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And

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You know, ended up making a therapeutic dose and my joints loosened.

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I thought, holy shit, there's something there.

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But then I thought, I know enough about the chemistry to make this tablet, but I'm not a chemist.

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What if there's a side reaction that's creating...

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a poison that's going to kill me what if this material is contaminated with heavy metals and i'm slowly going to kill myself um you know again i knew the risks of the elemental magnesium and hydrogen gas and i'm like i can't really do the calculations to find out if making this in my kitchen is going to blow my house up right so i found my founding partner is a phd chemist from the pharmaceutical industry he called it the worst pseudoscience he'd ever heard in his life

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gave me a long list of reasons why it made no sense.

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I'd read every paper that was published at the time, because I'm an extremely obsessive person.

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And so I was able to rebut all his objections with peer-reviewed research.

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And he was shocked and said, you know, I'm stunned.

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I didn't think there'd be a single publication on this.

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It appears there's quite a bit.

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I still don't believe it, but I suppose there's enough evidence to pursue as a supplement.

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00:14:25.004 --> 00:14:28.165
You know, it was a snide remark, right, that supplements have no evidence.

216
00:14:29.245 --> 00:14:33.966
And he continued like just tweaking my formulation, doing the due diligence.

217
00:14:34.046 --> 00:14:37.467
And I was just sending him a paper every day because I was really excited.

218
00:14:37.527 --> 00:14:38.227
I'm getting help now.

219
00:14:38.447 --> 00:14:38.627
Right.

220
00:14:38.647 --> 00:14:40.948
I really need external expert help here to keep going.

221
00:14:41.768 --> 00:14:52.571
And just serendipitously, I sent him a paper on a specific disease model at a phase two clinical trial at a higher dose of hydrogen water at the time that found very strong results.

222
00:14:52.691 --> 00:14:56.912
And he, you know, got reached out and said, hey, do you want to meet for lunch?

223
00:14:56.932 --> 00:14:58.532
I want to go over the work I've been doing.

224
00:14:59.272 --> 00:15:02.454
And we met for lunch and he had printed off that paper.

225
00:15:03.074 --> 00:15:09.318
And I was unaware, but he was the lead chemist developing small molecules for that disease model at his pharmaceutical company.

226
00:15:10.178 --> 00:15:15.101
And he said, the other papers, I just had to review the methodology, look at the conclusions and trust it wasn't fraudulent.

227
00:15:15.921 --> 00:15:17.622
This paper, I am a subject matter expert.

228
00:15:17.642 --> 00:15:19.063
This is my current work.

229
00:15:19.663 --> 00:15:22.725
And unless this is fraud, this stuff is working.

230
00:15:22.785 --> 00:15:24.986
I wish my molecules were working this well.

231
00:15:25.546 --> 00:15:27.708
And he said, are you sure you just want to do this?

232
00:15:27.728 --> 00:15:28.528
Yeah.

233
00:15:29.066 --> 00:15:49.008
for a do-it-yourself project to make sure it's safe like why don't you want to commercialize this and so i asked that question i'm like well i don't like the supplement industry i don't like the wellness industry i don't have funding to go down to pharma i don't want to collect funding you know for a lot of reasons and how can i make this work and

234
00:15:50.169 --> 00:15:54.231
I thought I'll cross that bridge when it comes to, I want to make sure that this does work.

235
00:15:54.271 --> 00:15:56.673
I want to do a test pilot batch.

236
00:15:56.693 --> 00:15:57.613
I had the cash for that.

237
00:15:57.673 --> 00:16:03.797
And, you know, something like 16 months, 3,000 editor of adjustments, 15 failed scale attempts.

238
00:16:03.837 --> 00:16:05.478
I finally got a first production ready tablet.

239
00:16:05.818 --> 00:16:12.522
But I hadn't resolved my question of how am I going to do supplements and wellness better than the industry I despise.

240
00:16:13.402 --> 00:16:21.607
And as I ordered the production, I had a panic attack that I don't want to just be another supplement, you know, company owner salesman.

241
00:16:21.987 --> 00:16:34.194
And so I emailed every first and corresponding author of every human paper on hydrogen therapy at the time and offered free product, free placebo, donations with no strings attached, publish the results, whatever the outcomes are.

242
00:16:34.794 --> 00:16:41.996
And I wanted to just have that peace of mind that what I am making is at least as effective as what the research on the market is.

243
00:16:42.637 --> 00:16:45.417
I got some bites, that's a decade ago.

244
00:16:45.457 --> 00:16:47.398
We now have 25 published clinical trials.

245
00:16:47.938 --> 00:16:51.539
We have 21 structure function claims to FTC and FDA standards.

246
00:16:51.599 --> 00:17:02.463
We have more clinical research underway than published, including like multicenter, multinational, phase three style clinical trials for obesity and metabolic syndrome underway.

247
00:17:03.383 --> 00:17:08.306
So, and this is primarily all publicly funded dollars because I've held through that.

248
00:17:08.786 --> 00:17:10.847
I don't have contracts.

249
00:17:10.907 --> 00:17:19.531
And in fact, my contracts that I have with universities for donating, I have a clause that if they don't publish, I am able to, so that the results are always published.

250
00:17:19.811 --> 00:17:27.334
So I decided if I'm going to do this, I have to stay true to my ethics and to scientific principles and...

251
00:17:28.695 --> 00:17:31.218
do the best I'm able to do and always seek improvement.

252
00:17:31.658 --> 00:17:40.088
And it brings us back full circle to talking about how these algorithms work in social media and why people get pushed in.

253
00:17:41.109 --> 00:17:43.732
And I think this happens for two reasons.

254
00:17:43.772 --> 00:17:48.897
A lot of them have great intentions, but then they end up doing exactly what they don't want to do.

255
00:17:50.179 --> 00:17:57.025
One, because they aren't continuously asking the question of who am I becoming, you know, and am I acting in a way that becomes who I want to become?

256
00:17:57.445 --> 00:18:02.891
But two, they're taking advice of siloed experts.

257
00:18:03.431 --> 00:18:09.217
They're telling them how to optimize in one facet of what they're doing without the total picture.

258
00:18:09.877 --> 00:18:25.470
And often, you know, whether it's us as a person or a CEO of a company, you have to know when being inefficient or illogical in an isolated domain is logical and efficient for the totality of the enterprise.

259
00:18:26.211 --> 00:18:32.836
So, for instance, your marketing team is going to tell you, do this and that, because this is how Meta's algorithm works.

260
00:18:32.876 --> 00:18:35.158
And it changes with every update every month.

261
00:18:35.659 --> 00:18:36.599
But what...

262
00:18:37.446 --> 00:18:41.590
does that advice do to your mission, who you are as a person?

263
00:18:41.971 --> 00:18:43.332
How do you come off to your audience?

264
00:18:43.552 --> 00:18:45.694
Sure, it may get you views and likes and follows.

265
00:18:45.995 --> 00:18:47.456
Those are cheap, right?

266
00:18:47.476 --> 00:18:48.497
Are those people loyal to you?

267
00:18:48.817 --> 00:18:54.163
Are you fighting every single month to keep those people's attention, right?

268
00:18:54.203 --> 00:18:55.124
Or do you have them long-term?

269
00:18:55.644 --> 00:18:56.625
It's the same kind of idea.

270
00:18:56.725 --> 00:18:58.487
Like a lot of really successful companies

271
00:18:59.348 --> 00:19:08.223
will ignore the best media buyers and saying, I don't care about your ROAS on this month's ad spent.

272
00:19:08.423 --> 00:19:13.150
And I'm not going to cheapen my deal to, you know, a one month supply of this.

273
00:19:14.523 --> 00:19:15.943
to get you a better row ass.

274
00:19:16.124 --> 00:19:24.606
I care about like the lifetime value of the customers, giving them good deal, giving them good value to have that customer for years to come.

275
00:19:25.226 --> 00:19:34.649
You know, the payoff comes in the future, but we we've turned into this like instant gratification where, you know, everyone loves metrics in the marketing world, right?

276
00:19:34.869 --> 00:19:39.851
But do they know how to actually analyze those metrics and understand what it's doing?

277
00:19:41.293 --> 00:19:42.475
in a long-term sense.

278
00:19:43.075 --> 00:19:50.364
So, you know, I fired multiple marketing teams, multiple, you know, CMOs and directors of marketing and just told them all, you're doing it my way.

279
00:19:51.085 --> 00:19:55.791
I am not going to make my content how Meta wants it.

280
00:19:55.851 --> 00:19:57.854
In fact, my content just gets squashed.

281
00:19:57.894 --> 00:19:59.255
My own followers don't see it.

282
00:19:59.816 --> 00:20:05.261
And I said, I will boost my posts and override their algorithm.

283
00:20:05.981 --> 00:20:11.947
And if my content is such that people resonate with, they will opt to follow.

284
00:20:12.547 --> 00:20:18.473
And so we look at it and, you know, my best posts I've gotten, you know, as low as like 25 cents a follow.

285
00:20:19.153 --> 00:20:41.462
right on my reels you know some of them like hitting like 60 70 000 follows off a single reel 90 seconds long in-depth subjects that i'm talking about clips from my book readings lots of context and nuance which meta doesn't actually like they hate it you know um so it's actually turning in it's i'm getting down they've made an update and they're overriding because

286
00:20:42.322 --> 00:20:47.627
I go against the wisdom of using, like, Advantage Plus, which I think is insanely stupid, right?

287
00:20:47.727 --> 00:20:52.451
And their algorithm is so dumb, it looks at a snapshot of your audience.

288
00:20:52.471 --> 00:20:56.134
But I'm talking about 20 different subjects to different audiences, right?

289
00:20:56.315 --> 00:20:56.995
Just one thought.

290
00:20:57.376 --> 00:20:58.216
I want to just, like...

291
00:20:59.057 --> 00:21:00.078
drive this idea home.

292
00:21:00.719 --> 00:21:14.071
And then I want you to talk about, after we talk about, we can talk about marketing, but the thought of having this beautiful goal when you start out as a creator, as an entrepreneur, and then you realize that once you're part of the system, well, actually you don't even realize it.

293
00:21:14.411 --> 00:21:15.712
Once you start posting content,

294
00:21:16.473 --> 00:21:18.636
And it lacks nuance, but it goes viral.

295
00:21:18.696 --> 00:21:19.877
It achieves a business objective.

296
00:21:19.897 --> 00:21:21.779
Then all of a sudden you get that dopamine hit.

297
00:21:21.979 --> 00:21:33.192
You get the dopamine hit and you are one of many content creators who really are not doing a service to their audience because you're ignoring context and nuance required to give the person the right information.

298
00:21:33.952 --> 00:21:34.912
Same with entrepreneurs.

299
00:21:35.372 --> 00:21:36.213
They start a company.

300
00:21:36.473 --> 00:21:42.514
We're talking about Eric Ries, who just wrote a book about the fact that entrepreneurs start a company, they raise money, and they lose control.

301
00:21:42.974 --> 00:21:45.375
And there's all these other stakeholders and shareholders now.

302
00:21:45.835 --> 00:21:48.616
And now the mission- Legal precedent that prevents them.

303
00:21:49.076 --> 00:21:49.456
Exactly.

304
00:21:49.476 --> 00:22:01.259
They started on this mission, and they lost their own company in the process of pursuit of this mission by playing into the machine and the infrastructure that's supposedly supposed to support them.

305
00:22:01.959 --> 00:22:13.462
And this is something that I think that people that are just starting out as entrepreneurs, as anybody, if you have this great mission, I don't know the best advice for you because it's difficult.

306
00:22:14.765 --> 00:22:18.189
to not take part in the machine.

307
00:22:18.409 --> 00:22:19.410
It's very difficult.

308
00:22:19.830 --> 00:22:22.493
And people get confused, and it's an ironic tragedy.

309
00:22:23.034 --> 00:22:29.200
And people have a mission, and then they look at how do I achieve my mission, they see the tools.

310
00:22:29.361 --> 00:22:29.541
Yes.

311
00:22:29.901 --> 00:22:35.147
But then they start serving the tools which prevent them from achieving their mission.

312
00:22:35.487 --> 00:22:35.707
Yes.

313
00:22:35.887 --> 00:22:40.970
So sorry, you can go back to with your content and then you so you've pushed back against this with your content on purpose.

314
00:22:41.391 --> 00:22:42.331
I'm not going to play the algorithm game.

315
00:22:42.351 --> 00:22:43.332
I'm not going to do the clickbait.

316
00:22:43.352 --> 00:22:44.012
I'm not going to do that.

317
00:22:44.232 --> 00:22:53.258
And now that that Instagram that is overriding, you know, and so like in these follow costs, I'm not getting followers from like.

318
00:22:53.778 --> 00:22:56.119
you know, third world countries and Indian stuff like that.

319
00:22:56.159 --> 00:23:03.080
I'm like geolocating to the U S Canada, UK, Australia, you know, I'm parking specific age ranges, specific likes.

320
00:23:03.460 --> 00:23:08.722
What I do is I listen to a clip over and over again before I post it.

321
00:23:09.162 --> 00:23:11.882
And I think, who am I talking to?

322
00:23:12.662 --> 00:23:15.003
What people do I know that need to hear this?

323
00:23:15.583 --> 00:23:18.044
And so then I visualize people that I know that I think that

324
00:23:24.246 --> 00:23:25.246
What are they interested in?

325
00:23:25.867 --> 00:23:26.087
Right?

326
00:23:26.387 --> 00:23:29.810
And so I map real people and their interests.

327
00:23:30.051 --> 00:23:35.415
And then I select this narrow audience structured around real people I know that I'm talking to.

328
00:23:35.916 --> 00:23:38.338
And then I push that content out to those people.

329
00:23:38.858 --> 00:23:40.140
And it's incredibly successful.

330
00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:43.123
Destroys what any agency has tried to do for me.

331
00:23:43.163 --> 00:23:47.807
This is how you build your audience as a content creator without playing the game that everybody falls victim to.

332
00:23:47.827 --> 00:23:53.774
But I'm boosting, not going through the platform because you can't do this through the platform properly.

333
00:23:54.934 --> 00:23:59.315
and I'm not playing their game, but now they're overriding it, and they're pushing it to advantage plus.

334
00:23:59.415 --> 00:24:00.495
They're overriding me.

335
00:24:00.655 --> 00:24:03.056
I'm starting off first few hundred bucks in a post.

336
00:24:03.096 --> 00:24:04.536
I'm getting great results.

337
00:24:04.856 --> 00:24:17.659
Then all of a sudden, we're going into the back end and looking and seeing there's an override, and they're no longer pushing it to, say, this middle-aged female audience, and it's all young 18 to 24 men seeing it.

338
00:24:18.140 --> 00:24:24.001
And so now I'm switching gears and hired more people on the team, and I'll be pulling everyone off meta,

339
00:24:24.461 --> 00:24:29.482
you know, to get the free downloads on my books to my website, to go to my sub stack, go to YouTube.

340
00:24:29.502 --> 00:24:37.204
And that way, you know, we're going to create like, um, like community forums on Facebook where my editors are discussing a lot of the ideas in the book and engaging.

341
00:24:37.564 --> 00:24:41.765
So doing all these ways, because just asking the question, what is the purpose?

342
00:24:41.985 --> 00:24:44.325
Why do I want these followers?

343
00:24:44.385 --> 00:24:49.966
Well, the reason I want these followers is to expand the vote, like my voice so that more people hear my message.

344
00:24:50.426 --> 00:24:53.527
But if I'm going to compromise my message to get the followers.

345
00:24:53.547 --> 00:24:54.107
Yeah.

346
00:24:54.628 --> 00:24:57.289
then I've defeated myself in the goal.

347
00:24:57.749 --> 00:25:04.771
And this is the same way, you know, we're talking about this book and quite a few people have said I should read it or talk to them because I have the same ideas.

348
00:25:04.811 --> 00:25:10.633
Like it's, I say no to at least one venture capitalist a week.

349
00:25:11.153 --> 00:25:11.614
pursuing me.

350
00:25:12.114 --> 00:25:23.384
I cannot count how many people have told me that within three months I'm going to have a private jet and a yacht and a penthouse if I just take their money, you know, let them buy into my group of companies.

351
00:25:23.424 --> 00:25:27.307
And I just say no, because I know what the legal precedent is.

352
00:25:28.108 --> 00:25:32.972
In 1919, a legal precedent was set on shareholder primacy.

353
00:25:33.092 --> 00:25:36.315
It was a Ford, Dodge v. Ford, right?

354
00:25:36.335 --> 00:25:38.517
The Dodge brothers sued the Ford Motor Company.

355
00:25:38.537 --> 00:25:38.997
And,

356
00:25:39.197 --> 00:25:46.484
And Henry Ford had sent out a letter basically stating, we are lowering the price of our cars.

357
00:25:47.065 --> 00:25:54.652
We are raising employee wages and improving their benefits because he wanted to, in his words, he wanted to live in a country where everyone could afford a Ford.

358
00:25:54.672 --> 00:25:55.413
Right?

359
00:25:55.433 --> 00:25:55.553
And...

360
00:25:56.394 --> 00:26:01.459
And the Dodge brothers fought back and they said, we didn't invest in you for your moral mission.

361
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:08.706
We invested in you to return profits to us and went to the Supreme Court of Michigan and the Dodge brothers won.

362
00:26:09.526 --> 00:26:18.335
And so that set the prevailing precedent of shareholder primacy, which has guided contract law in the Western world ever since then has not been challenged.

363
00:26:18.715 --> 00:26:29.085
which means that the responsibility, the fiduciary duty of any director, executive, you know, in a company is to return profits for the stakeholder.

364
00:26:29.105 --> 00:26:35.251
Now, it can get nuanced in public benefit corporations, but those aren't clearly defined.

365
00:26:35.311 --> 00:26:37.433
And you look at OpenAI, our business.

366
00:26:37.733 --> 00:26:39.293
mission is to benefit humanity.

367
00:26:39.333 --> 00:26:40.254
What does that even mean?

368
00:26:40.594 --> 00:26:40.834
Right?

369
00:26:41.354 --> 00:26:42.714
So it creates these problems.

370
00:26:43.274 --> 00:26:44.855
And by the way, just so you know, you would love this.

371
00:26:44.875 --> 00:26:47.856
So I'm going to tell you this book, it's called incorruptible.

372
00:26:47.876 --> 00:26:50.216
It's why good companies go bad and how great companies stay great.

373
00:26:50.276 --> 00:26:59.478
And all about everything he speaks about is, uh, creating incorruptible governance structures in the company for this exact reason, for this exact reason.

374
00:26:59.798 --> 00:27:03.799
So I actually ask myself, I am who I am today.

375
00:27:03.980 --> 00:27:05.240
And I took on a few shareholders.

376
00:27:06.080 --> 00:27:15.830
arm's length, like friends, you know, of mine that believes in my mission, but I still had them sign ethics and morality clauses, you know, that I have ultimate rights.

377
00:27:16.130 --> 00:27:22.176
But now I'm thinking, how do I create these businesses in a way, who do I, how do I know who I'm going to be in 10 years?

378
00:27:23.247 --> 00:27:25.027
What if I get corrupted somehow?

379
00:27:25.427 --> 00:27:30.909
How do I make my businesses and my concepts last beyond myself, right?

380
00:27:31.169 --> 00:27:35.609
Because we're not the same person today that we were yesterday, and we're going to be someone different tomorrow.

381
00:27:36.910 --> 00:27:39.830
You know, and I've done this in a lot of, say, contracts I'm dealing with.

382
00:27:40.030 --> 00:27:42.011
I really don't like contracts.

383
00:27:43.051 --> 00:27:49.612
Contracts and things like prenups, too, is assuming failure before it happens.

384
00:27:53.813 --> 00:27:57.255
What if I die and someone takes control and they don't have the same relationship?

385
00:27:57.275 --> 00:27:57.995
Or what if they die?

386
00:27:58.375 --> 00:28:19.283
So we've been building a lot of contracts with my executives, with good partners of mine that are very loose and tie back to arbitration and mediation and talking through problems, but then default to standard clauses in the event of a leadership change or a death or anything like that to protect from...

387
00:28:20.412 --> 00:28:29.761
these occurrences that could happen, right, while not betraying the relationships we're trying to form right now.

388
00:28:30.122 --> 00:28:37.409
Everything in your life, like the contracts, the way you raise, the way you build, the way you create, it's all like you take all these precautions so that your vision doesn't get corrupted.

389
00:28:37.589 --> 00:28:40.071
I always get back to the first principle, what am I trying to do?

390
00:28:40.982 --> 00:28:49.631
And how will saying this or accepting this change, alter my ability to pursue what I'm trying to pursue, right?

391
00:28:51.192 --> 00:28:55.736
So that's what I always think about with money is we think, oh, if we had this money,

392
00:28:56.377 --> 00:29:01.979
this funding that came in, we'd be able to finally achieve what we set out to achieve.

393
00:29:02.339 --> 00:29:03.479
But it's just not the reality.

394
00:29:03.959 --> 00:29:08.620
Because the second we take that money from VCs, we aren't bound to our purpose anymore.

395
00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:10.601
We're bound to returning profit.

396
00:29:11.521 --> 00:29:13.402
And we will be forced...

397
00:29:14.522 --> 00:29:19.504
into doing, making all these compromises to increase profit.

398
00:29:19.924 --> 00:29:21.825
And if we push back and say, no, no, no, no.

399
00:29:22.465 --> 00:29:25.306
By doing that, increasing that profit, it betrays my purpose.

400
00:29:25.866 --> 00:29:29.248
Well, the stakeholders say, well, that's over.

401
00:29:29.628 --> 00:29:29.868
Yeah.

402
00:29:30.028 --> 00:29:30.248
Right?

403
00:29:30.528 --> 00:29:32.489
Your purpose is to return money for me.

404
00:29:32.969 --> 00:29:36.571
And so entrepreneurs find themselves trapped in a prison of their own making.

405
00:29:37.071 --> 00:29:40.212
They were so excited to take on this money to finally achieve their goals.

406
00:29:40.832 --> 00:29:42.113
But then the second they take it,

407
00:29:42.833 --> 00:29:48.058
they're now impotent and completely incapable from pursuing what they set out to pursue.

408
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:53.383
And, uh, you were saying before about like the, the funeral founder of funeral, right?

409
00:29:53.883 --> 00:29:57.226
Almost every founder I've ever talked to has regretted taking money.

410
00:29:57.967 --> 00:30:02.531
Um, some of them end up in a trap where they've launched multiple businesses and, uh,

411
00:30:03.312 --> 00:30:06.974
They take money and they're like, I've regretted every time, but they don't know any other way.

412
00:30:07.414 --> 00:30:09.015
They get trapped in this cycle.

413
00:30:09.596 --> 00:30:09.916
Yeah.

414
00:30:10.456 --> 00:30:15.699
I mean, like Silicon Valley and VCs have the best marketing ever.

415
00:30:15.979 --> 00:30:18.761
Like I was speaking, I invested in a founder.

416
00:30:18.801 --> 00:30:20.442
She's from SF, incredible founder.

417
00:30:22.860 --> 00:30:26.724
she's building a company, she raised a little bit, not a lot, seed round.

418
00:30:27.645 --> 00:30:31.609
And we were just chatting and I was, I didn't think it was a novel idea.

419
00:30:31.629 --> 00:30:41.881
I just said, instead of raising another round, which is super time consuming and you're going to dilute yourself, why not just grow through revenue and customers?

420
00:30:42.582 --> 00:30:42.842
And she said,

421
00:30:44.504 --> 00:30:47.485
Like, it seems like such a simple concept.

422
00:30:47.565 --> 00:30:49.506
Like, money can come from anywhere.

423
00:30:49.666 --> 00:30:51.386
Money can come from VCs, money can come from customers.

424
00:30:51.406 --> 00:30:52.707
Like, I would rather not dilute.

425
00:30:52.747 --> 00:30:54.407
Money can come from debt, money can come from anywhere.

426
00:30:54.828 --> 00:30:56.088
But the best money is from customers.

427
00:30:56.208 --> 00:30:57.368
Like, then you don't have to dilute yourself.

428
00:30:57.388 --> 00:30:59.549
You don't have to take, you don't have to give up equity.

429
00:30:59.589 --> 00:31:01.210
You don't have to, you know, pay interest on your debt.

430
00:31:01.810 --> 00:31:03.010
So just sell more.

431
00:31:03.150 --> 00:31:06.071
Like, let's focus on, like, a marketing strategy to attract and convert customers.

432
00:31:06.752 --> 00:31:10.313
And in her mind, she looked at me and she's like, do you think that's going to work?

433
00:31:11.313 --> 00:31:14.495
And I'm like, of course, it's going to work.

434
00:31:14.515 --> 00:31:19.038
People are brainwashed to think that they have to do things a certain way.

435
00:31:19.439 --> 00:31:26.203
And she would say, I would speak to 10 of my peers in SF, and they would look at me like I'm crazy if I said I'm not going to raise another round.

436
00:31:26.663 --> 00:31:27.024
Of course.

437
00:31:27.284 --> 00:31:28.004
That's so sad.

438
00:31:28.024 --> 00:31:28.825
It is.

439
00:31:29.786 --> 00:31:31.608
And it's horrific in my view.

440
00:31:31.708 --> 00:31:34.210
Life at the Speed of Play is a success story partner.

441
00:31:34.230 --> 00:31:37.213
Now, this is a book by Mark Pincus, the guy who founded Zynga.

442
00:31:37.233 --> 00:31:38.374
I've actually had him on the show.

443
00:31:38.694 --> 00:31:39.555
I met him in person.

444
00:31:39.835 --> 00:31:44.479
And Reid Hoffman wrote the foreword, calling him one of the best idea people in Silicon Valley.

445
00:31:44.660 --> 00:31:48.323
The book is Life at the Speed of Play, Launch Products People Love.

446
00:31:48.403 --> 00:31:49.824
About 170 pages.

447
00:31:50.084 --> 00:31:51.586
It's already a national bestseller.

448
00:31:51.866 --> 00:31:52.727
It's his framework.

449
00:31:52.967 --> 00:31:58.050
or figuring out whether an idea is actually worth going after before you put serious time and money into it.

450
00:31:58.251 --> 00:32:01.893
Not theory, the way he actually does it, and he's repeatedly built successful businesses.

451
00:32:02.153 --> 00:32:03.934
On top of that, you can read it in a weekend.

452
00:32:04.094 --> 00:32:07.156
It can change your entire life and give you the right direction if you're an entrepreneur.

453
00:32:07.176 --> 00:32:11.739
So right now, if you go to getmarksbook.com slash success, you get two copies for $32.

454
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:12.260
That's $16 each.

455
00:32:14.181 --> 00:32:20.526
Mark is paying for the second copy himself because he wants you to give it to somebody, a friend who's been sitting on an idea, someone who needs to push, whoever.

456
00:32:20.786 --> 00:32:23.429
That's getmarksbook.com slash success.

457
00:32:23.809 --> 00:32:25.470
Mark with a K. Buy one.

458
00:32:25.670 --> 00:32:26.291
Second one's free.

459
00:32:26.491 --> 00:32:28.312
My fitness pal is a success story partner.

460
00:32:28.553 --> 00:32:32.376
People always ask me how I have time to track what I eat, pay attention to my nutrition.

461
00:32:32.396 --> 00:32:34.858
When I have a daily podcast, I have a weekly podcast.

462
00:32:34.878 --> 00:32:35.538
I have a newsletter.

463
00:32:35.558 --> 00:32:36.459
I run a marketing agency.

464
00:32:36.479 --> 00:32:37.440
My days are super full.

465
00:32:37.820 --> 00:32:40.323
But honestly, that's exactly why I have to do it.

466
00:32:40.343 --> 00:32:46.490
See, when you're running that many things, when you are a high-performing person, you cannot afford to have your energy be inconsistent.

467
00:32:46.650 --> 00:32:50.975
Food is a foundation for everything, for energy, for sleep, for weight, for recovery, for performance.

468
00:32:51.435 --> 00:32:53.398
And the days when I'm not paying attention to what I'm eating,

469
00:32:53.858 --> 00:32:54.318
I feel it.

470
00:32:54.538 --> 00:32:57.100
The MyFitnessPal app makes tracking a non-issue.

471
00:32:57.180 --> 00:33:03.803
I can say what I ate, it has voice logging, or I can point my camera at a plate with meal scan and it figures out what's there.

472
00:33:03.843 --> 00:33:06.585
See, I'm not sitting around entering all my ingredients.

473
00:33:06.845 --> 00:33:08.085
The app does the work for me.

474
00:33:08.466 --> 00:33:14.729
It also connects to over 40 fitness apps and wearables, so my training, my steps, my nutrition, it all goes to one place.

475
00:33:15.189 --> 00:33:18.271
One picture of what's happening instead of having to piece everything together myself.

476
00:33:18.451 --> 00:33:19.691
The whole thing is frictionless.

477
00:33:19.711 --> 00:33:20.892
It takes seconds, not minutes.

478
00:33:21.132 --> 00:33:23.915
So do yourself a favor, start tracking what you eat.

479
00:33:23.935 --> 00:33:25.217
You are going to feel way better.

480
00:33:25.477 --> 00:33:31.363
Go to podcast.myfitnesspal.com and use code SCOTT, all uppercase for 15% off MyFitnessPal premium.

481
00:33:31.623 --> 00:33:35.267
That's podcast.myfitnesspal.com, code SCOTT.

482
00:33:35.568 --> 00:33:37.230
HubSpot is a success story partner.

483
00:33:37.870 --> 00:33:42.214
every entrepreneur, founder, CEOs listening right now needs to pay attention.

484
00:33:42.574 --> 00:33:43.315
I have a question for you.

485
00:33:43.615 --> 00:33:51.262
When a buyer asks AI for a solution or a product that your business sells, does your business come up?

486
00:33:51.542 --> 00:33:54.365
The answer is that most companies have no idea.

487
00:33:54.685 --> 00:34:08.491
They don't know if their name shows up in any of the AI tools, chat, perplexity, Claude, and by the time they find out, they have lost tons of traffic and tons of deals to someone who did show up.

488
00:34:08.871 --> 00:34:10.412
HubSpot AEO.

489
00:34:10.892 --> 00:34:18.175
It helps you show up in those moments with the right answers that your customers and your buyers are looking for when they go type in a question.

490
00:34:18.415 --> 00:34:22.397
It's before the first click, it's before they fill out some form on your website.

491
00:34:22.917 --> 00:34:26.700
That is the moment that HubSpot AEO is built for.

492
00:34:27.060 --> 00:34:32.763
So if you want your company to show up in AI searches when your customer is looking, check out hubspot.com.

493
00:34:33.124 --> 00:34:36.846
They are the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.

494
00:34:37.266 --> 00:34:45.072
So I'm curious because the way that you think is very counter to how most people look at whatever problem they're trying to solve.

495
00:34:46.492 --> 00:34:56.535
I'm curious, was there a moment in your life that prompted you to sort of color outside the lines and look at things differently?

496
00:34:56.575 --> 00:35:00.976
Was there a traumatic event that you said, I'm never going to go through this again?

497
00:35:01.196 --> 00:35:03.777
Like, why do you look at things in a contrarian way?

498
00:35:04.017 --> 00:35:05.617
Oh, man, that's difficult.

499
00:35:06.277 --> 00:35:08.038
One, I mean, I am on the spectrum.

500
00:35:09.078 --> 00:35:12.901
Two, I had a contrast in my life.

501
00:35:13.741 --> 00:35:17.904
We grew up below the poverty line, mostly with my mom, single mom.

502
00:35:18.184 --> 00:35:22.606
My dad was in the picture, but he has borderline personality disorder, and he's a lunatic.

503
00:35:23.307 --> 00:35:25.288
There's good times and bad times.

504
00:35:26.049 --> 00:35:29.431
His mom was quite wealthy, ended up getting written under the will.

505
00:35:30.031 --> 00:35:31.032
So there's a lot of...

506
00:35:32.115 --> 00:35:36.836
chaos that occurred in my youth, but it just always was gnawing at me.

507
00:35:36.956 --> 00:35:45.637
Even going into business was when I was 17 and I got a job in door-to-door sales and I got this job out of spite, right?

508
00:35:45.677 --> 00:35:58.660
Because some friends of mine got a job going door-to-door for commission and I was considering it, but I was really socially awkward, you know, that, you know, autism and my dad just basically laughed and said, you're a loser.

509
00:35:58.700 --> 00:36:00.000
You'll never sell to a single person.

510
00:36:00.721 --> 00:36:03.533
add, if anything defines me, it is

511
00:36:05.538 --> 00:36:15.802
such a fierce oppositional defiance and contempt for being told I can't do things that I got that job going door to door.

512
00:36:16.303 --> 00:36:22.725
And I just, I studied everything, you know, and I watched the best sales reps.

513
00:36:22.765 --> 00:36:24.086
I watched their mannerisms.

514
00:36:24.146 --> 00:36:27.007
I watched when they'd lean in at the right time.

515
00:36:27.047 --> 00:36:28.307
And I just memorized it.

516
00:36:28.367 --> 00:36:30.228
And I always hated wrote memorization.

517
00:36:30.488 --> 00:36:31.449
I hate it in school.

518
00:36:31.469 --> 00:36:32.309
I didn't understand it.

519
00:36:32.849 --> 00:36:34.010
But with human skills,

520
00:36:34.970 --> 00:36:47.778
I turned to rote memorization to just study everything and practice it in the mirror for days, months, then into years, and then develop different characters for different situations, whether I was talking to a girl, whether I was trying to sell a deal.

521
00:36:48.238 --> 00:36:51.380
But then over like about a decade, they all just emerged and became who I am.

522
00:36:52.020 --> 00:36:54.282
But so there was that that led there.

523
00:36:54.382 --> 00:36:59.805
But in the questioning side, throughout all of this, I was just always struck and people would

524
00:37:01.461 --> 00:37:02.642
Basically, you say, what are you talking about?

525
00:37:02.662 --> 00:37:03.302
You're insane.

526
00:37:03.922 --> 00:37:16.028
When I comment on the societal insanity across all political sides, spectrums, debates in every field, everyone seems to agree all the systems are broken.

527
00:37:17.848 --> 00:37:20.689
But yet no one questions the actual systems, right?

528
00:37:20.989 --> 00:37:24.870
They have different solutions on how to reform the systems.

529
00:37:25.470 --> 00:37:28.871
It's like, well, maybe the systems are broken to their core.

530
00:37:28.931 --> 00:37:33.152
And so I just started thinking about these first principle concepts.

531
00:37:33.232 --> 00:37:38.113
And it led me to kind of think that we have a number of concepts.

532
00:37:39.337 --> 00:37:49.980
modern religions that we're actually not aware are religions, one being finance, another being public education as universal good, right?

533
00:37:50.080 --> 00:37:51.581
Where's the evidence for it, right?

534
00:37:51.601 --> 00:37:58.063
In fact, the evidence suggests that it's diminishing us with each passing generation, and that democracy is the best form of government.

535
00:37:58.943 --> 00:37:59.603
Where's the evidence?

536
00:37:59.623 --> 00:38:03.024
In fact, the evidence is contrary to that.

537
00:38:03.644 --> 00:38:05.425
And so we have all of these

538
00:38:06.385 --> 00:38:10.610
assumed beliefs that we build everything off of.

539
00:38:11.051 --> 00:38:13.213
And that's ideology, right?

540
00:38:13.594 --> 00:38:16.998
And so it made me question, why are we involved in all these religions?

541
00:38:17.198 --> 00:38:22.445
But these religions aren't a god, they're a religion to an idea, how to function in society.

542
00:38:22.765 --> 00:38:23.706
So I started questioning

543
00:38:24.632 --> 00:38:31.074
Well, these normative behaviors are within these systems that everyone agrees fails.

544
00:38:31.955 --> 00:38:34.175
Why should I assume that they're intelligible?

545
00:38:35.016 --> 00:38:41.898
And so I go to every new field I'm in and I just ask the questions, what is this system trying to accomplish?

546
00:38:42.839 --> 00:38:43.079
Right.

547
00:38:43.239 --> 00:38:46.400
And I break it down and go, okay, this has some merit or...

548
00:38:47.482 --> 00:38:51.104
That is not doing what it was intended to do.

549
00:38:51.544 --> 00:38:58.489
And so I go in with this radical deconstruction to reconstruct in every idea I have.

550
00:38:59.049 --> 00:39:00.490
Is this a similar idea?

551
00:39:00.850 --> 00:39:07.814
Like the deconstructing an institution or an ideology to reconstruct it?

552
00:39:08.014 --> 00:39:12.097
Is that coming from the mental model that

553
00:39:12.797 --> 00:39:21.621
If you go through life with a healthy amount of pessimism and just assuming that things are broken and won't work the way that they should work.

554
00:39:21.641 --> 00:39:23.662
Then you find solutions on getting them done.

555
00:39:24.142 --> 00:39:25.463
I call it strategic pessimism.

556
00:39:25.643 --> 00:39:26.283
That's the word.

557
00:39:26.303 --> 00:39:26.564
Yes.

558
00:39:26.624 --> 00:39:26.844
Okay.

559
00:39:27.084 --> 00:39:29.045
You know, we get caught in these binary debates.

560
00:39:29.685 --> 00:39:38.313
And we go, well, being optimistic is better than being pessimistic because we assume pessimism is, you know, like a prison, right?

561
00:39:38.353 --> 00:39:42.577
People, you know, become paralyzed with their pessimism or become suicidal.

562
00:39:43.098 --> 00:39:44.780
But optimism is delusion.

563
00:39:45.801 --> 00:39:48.964
Optimism is assuming everything will go right, but we know it's not going to go right.

564
00:39:49.264 --> 00:39:49.945
It never goes right.

565
00:39:50.325 --> 00:39:51.206
Reality is chaotic.

566
00:39:51.806 --> 00:39:52.327
And so...

567
00:39:53.954 --> 00:40:03.999
I would say our systems in society are based on a mix of delusional optimism and the belief that we can control reality, neither of which are true.

568
00:40:04.760 --> 00:40:04.960
Right.

569
00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:09.502
And so my teachings teach you, you cannot control what is going to happen.

570
00:40:09.542 --> 00:40:11.103
You cannot account for everything.

571
00:40:11.163 --> 00:40:12.524
Something will occur.

572
00:40:13.184 --> 00:40:13.905
Right.

573
00:40:14.205 --> 00:40:18.067
The most unimaginable stress is going to hit you.

574
00:40:18.687 --> 00:40:24.179
And the question isn't, have you built enough rigid protocols to protect you?

575
00:40:24.460 --> 00:40:27.687
What is your capacity to deal with this change?

576
00:40:28.410 --> 00:40:28.590
right?

577
00:40:29.090 --> 00:40:31.091
How many situations have you done?

578
00:40:31.431 --> 00:40:37.272
How can you adopt them in the moment to make sure that you survive the chaos, right?

579
00:40:37.332 --> 00:40:39.633
And that you help those around you survive the chaos.

580
00:40:40.573 --> 00:40:45.474
So I believe very much in red teaming everything.

581
00:40:45.814 --> 00:40:57.437
When I go into anything, I deconstruct everything and think of every single failure point and every redundancy that I can put in place to ensure that I will

582
00:40:59.137 --> 00:40:59.537
randomness.

583
00:40:59.557 --> 00:41:02.458
I mean, I can't account for an asteroid hitting Earth and causing extinction.

584
00:41:02.678 --> 00:41:16.683
So within my reason, and I argue that this type of strategic pessimism that drives you to move forward to build capacity, build new systems, you know, build these understandings and skill sets is the greatest form of optimism.

585
00:41:17.243 --> 00:41:25.048
Because you are under the presumption that the more you do, the bigger you build yourself, the more likely you're going to succeed.

586
00:41:25.508 --> 00:41:41.998
Whereas traditional optimism is just assuming I need to lie to myself and keep this mindset that everything is going to be peachy and then ignore the negatives when they occur because it might negatively affect your mindset.

587
00:41:42.578 --> 00:41:43.318
I agree with you.

588
00:41:44.018 --> 00:41:58.243
The issue that many people would have with this idea is that if from the onset they default to a certain amount of pessimism, they actually don't take the action.

589
00:41:58.263 --> 00:41:59.943
It only works with action.

590
00:42:00.244 --> 00:42:01.044
That's the issue.

591
00:42:01.104 --> 00:42:04.365
And the same with hope, whether it's hope or pessimism.

592
00:42:05.182 --> 00:42:06.923
They only work with strategy and action.

593
00:42:07.683 --> 00:42:08.684
Nothing works if you don't.

594
00:42:08.904 --> 00:42:11.686
You need to always ask the question, how am I serving others?

595
00:42:12.046 --> 00:42:13.667
What value am I creating?

596
00:42:14.667 --> 00:42:16.509
If you're asking, how do I make money?

597
00:42:16.569 --> 00:42:17.309
How do I raise money?

598
00:42:18.530 --> 00:42:20.931
Then you're just going to be empty, right?

599
00:42:20.971 --> 00:42:22.492
It's never enough, right?

600
00:42:22.812 --> 00:42:23.412
It's never enough.

601
00:42:23.472 --> 00:42:25.494
But if you're asking, what am I doing?

602
00:42:26.614 --> 00:42:48.894
the benefits me and then what i'm doing is making me happy make giving me a better life would that be a value to other people and if you say yes just start moving right don't worry about putting a prospectus together and putting together books and projections just start working on that mission right

603
00:42:49.735 --> 00:42:50.715
And people will notice.

604
00:42:51.396 --> 00:42:53.397
That's the question the founders should ask themselves.

605
00:42:53.817 --> 00:42:54.797
What value am I providing?

606
00:42:55.397 --> 00:42:55.778
That's it.

607
00:42:55.998 --> 00:42:56.918
That's the most important.

608
00:42:57.138 --> 00:42:57.318
Yeah.

609
00:42:58.479 --> 00:43:00.720
And every day you have to ask that question.

610
00:43:01.140 --> 00:43:05.161
For somebody who is, again, you're speaking to very ambitious people.

611
00:43:06.522 --> 00:43:07.862
There's about 50-50.

612
00:43:07.922 --> 00:43:12.124
I'd say 50% loose numbers, but 50% are entrepreneurs that are building.

613
00:43:12.164 --> 00:43:15.165
The other 50% are ambitious, but they're working 9 to 5 W-2s.

614
00:43:16.826 --> 00:43:25.234
But I think that the human default, I'd say entrepreneurs maybe a little bit less so than like a 9 to 5 W-2, but humans do default to obedience of systems because it's comfortable.

615
00:43:25.835 --> 00:43:27.656
And I think that most people don't want to.

616
00:43:27.676 --> 00:43:30.879
Slowly, slowly in the West, not historically.

617
00:43:31.099 --> 00:43:35.383
But I also want you to teach how to think about the systems and obedience and where it serves you and where it doesn't.

618
00:43:35.624 --> 00:43:37.826
I want people to consider a thought experiment.

619
00:43:38.606 --> 00:43:40.448
Say you're a good moral person.

620
00:43:40.488 --> 00:43:42.470
Why does someone become a doctor or a scientist?

621
00:43:43.472 --> 00:43:45.815
You know, especially in the health issues.

622
00:43:46.696 --> 00:43:49.079
Usually it's because a family member is dying or died.

623
00:43:49.439 --> 00:43:50.340
And it gives them a mission.

624
00:43:50.560 --> 00:43:51.842
It gives them a mission and a purpose.

625
00:43:52.142 --> 00:43:54.425
Say you're the best MD, PhD in the world.

626
00:43:54.445 --> 00:43:55.046
You are obsessed.

627
00:43:55.066 --> 00:43:56.327
You're working 100 hours a week.

628
00:43:56.788 --> 00:43:58.290
You discover a cure for something.

629
00:43:58.870 --> 00:44:27.323
right you think you're going to change the world you build this company you take on money or maybe you just rise to the top you know of a pharmaceutical company and now you're in the c-suite and you think i've done it i'm finally here i am going to change the world well now you're hammered with another layer of contracts you know anti-disparagement clauses non-disclosures and then they open the closet and show you the skeletons and now you're stuck with a moral dilemma

630
00:44:28.380 --> 00:44:35.312
Do I act on this knowledge I now have, which would be violating all your agreements, or do I engage in the cover-up?

631
00:44:36.113 --> 00:44:38.797
Now, if you act, what is the outcome going to be?

632
00:44:39.258 --> 00:44:39.939
You're going to be sued.

633
00:44:39.959 --> 00:44:40.961
You're going to lose your job.

634
00:44:41.657 --> 00:44:42.698
You'll be disparaged.

635
00:44:43.098 --> 00:44:46.920
Probably nothing will happen from it.

636
00:44:47.040 --> 00:44:50.102
You won't make an impact, but you'll never work again, right?

637
00:44:51.102 --> 00:44:52.643
You and your spouse won't be able to retire.

638
00:44:52.683 --> 00:44:55.685
Your kids won't be able to continue attending private school and university.

639
00:44:55.705 --> 00:44:57.125
You'll lose everything, right?

640
00:44:57.926 --> 00:44:59.367
And probably nothing will happen.

641
00:45:00.487 --> 00:45:05.271
Now, say you can make a big enough of a splash so something does happen.

642
00:45:05.911 --> 00:45:07.192
Well, they're still going to go after you.

643
00:45:07.232 --> 00:45:09.534
If they don't kill you, they're going to ruin you completely.

644
00:45:09.894 --> 00:45:13.197
But you've made friends over all these years in the company.

645
00:45:13.897 --> 00:45:18.681
You know other execs that have stock options and are counting on that for their retirement.

646
00:45:18.781 --> 00:45:20.282
And you know their families.

647
00:45:20.642 --> 00:45:23.364
And so if you make a splash, you're hurting your friends.

648
00:45:24.485 --> 00:45:26.487
You're hurting your friends, yourself, and your family.

649
00:45:26.987 --> 00:45:30.830
And when met with this moral dilemma, what do people do?

650
00:45:30.930 --> 00:45:32.971
They choose themselves and those they care about.

651
00:45:33.752 --> 00:45:35.693
It is the natural thing to do.

652
00:45:36.333 --> 00:45:39.816
And then they're called psychopaths, but they're going through this internal battle.

653
00:45:40.560 --> 00:45:42.661
right, of, I don't want to do this.

654
00:45:43.161 --> 00:45:44.061
I am imprisoned.

655
00:45:44.101 --> 00:45:44.942
My hands are tied.

656
00:45:44.962 --> 00:45:45.782
I have to do this.

657
00:45:46.182 --> 00:45:53.544
But people are talking about how they're a psychopath, right, how they're hurting humanity, where their whole goal in life has been to help humanity.

658
00:45:54.185 --> 00:46:00.447
And so through this method, through these layers of regulations that most people don't understand,

659
00:46:01.447 --> 00:46:11.372
Society has effectively taken, you know, what we could call the shepherds, the people who are trying to protect others, and forced them at gunpoint to become the wolves.

660
00:46:12.033 --> 00:46:14.694
What is the solution to this?

661
00:46:16.315 --> 00:46:20.537
I would say we need to wake up and realize that one money is fake, right?

662
00:46:20.677 --> 00:46:24.900
If everyone just sold their stock and took their money out of the banks today...

663
00:46:26.345 --> 00:46:28.807
The Fortune 500 all collapses, they all go out of business.

664
00:46:29.327 --> 00:46:35.352
The banks go out of business and we're left with all the same resources and we stop losing our physical assets, right?

665
00:46:35.792 --> 00:46:36.232
That's one.

666
00:46:36.393 --> 00:46:38.834
But people won't do that because they're afraid.

667
00:46:38.874 --> 00:46:42.817
We've attached our trust into these concepts, these institutions.

668
00:46:43.017 --> 00:46:47.981
In society, we need these new structures to take place.

669
00:46:48.061 --> 00:46:51.524
We need people bold enough to say, I'm not going to play that game.

670
00:46:52.064 --> 00:46:53.105
I'm going to start a new game.

671
00:46:53.819 --> 00:46:55.861
And I'm going to start building over here.

672
00:46:55.901 --> 00:46:57.402
Will you come and build with me over here?

673
00:46:58.003 --> 00:46:59.364
And you're not doing it for yourself.

674
00:47:00.065 --> 00:47:03.528
You would get much more going and playing their game today.

675
00:47:05.129 --> 00:47:07.251
But do you want to be immortal?

676
00:47:07.672 --> 00:47:10.554
Do you want a world where your children have the chance to do what you're doing?

677
00:47:11.495 --> 00:47:13.057
And so we need to ask ourselves these questions.

678
00:47:13.943 --> 00:47:18.604
Are you going to play their game because it's easier right now?

679
00:47:19.065 --> 00:47:21.785
Are you going to start a new game so that your children can play?

680
00:47:22.265 --> 00:47:26.147
What is your advice to that ambitious entrepreneur, that builder?

681
00:47:27.487 --> 00:47:32.108
Because it's already hard enough even when playing the existing game.

682
00:47:33.089 --> 00:47:34.509
Everything good in life is hard.

683
00:47:36.432 --> 00:47:36.672
Right.

684
00:47:37.473 --> 00:47:49.523
So like most people I get asked, I got asked by a neighbor kid two days ago, driving to the airport, you know, and he's got a startup business and his parents are very successful.

685
00:47:49.563 --> 00:47:52.245
And he said, what can I do to land a big account?

686
00:47:53.266 --> 00:47:54.387
I said, that's not the way to think about it.

687
00:47:55.268 --> 00:47:55.388
Right.

688
00:47:55.428 --> 00:47:55.548
Right.

689
00:47:56.174 --> 00:47:58.956
What do you offer to a big account that's going to make your business?

690
00:47:59.536 --> 00:48:01.518
You can get lucky, sure, right?

691
00:48:01.758 --> 00:48:04.119
But without nepotism, it's very unlikely to happen.

692
00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:13.406
You build your business by providing your value and service and showing you're better to the point where when you get that big account, it doesn't make you.

693
00:48:14.166 --> 00:48:15.987
You deserve it, right?

694
00:48:16.428 --> 00:48:18.969
But if you got that big account today, they own you.

695
00:48:19.690 --> 00:48:20.811
They're your entire business.

696
00:48:20.851 --> 00:48:22.272
You'll never become something bigger.

697
00:48:23.193 --> 00:48:24.394
You are just servicing them.

698
00:48:25.035 --> 00:48:34.844
But if you build yourself and your business and your capacity to where they recognize you and give you the business in that regard, you have the power.

699
00:48:35.405 --> 00:48:37.407
Because their competitors are going to recognize you also.

700
00:48:38.670 --> 00:48:39.910
So don't look for that big win.

701
00:48:40.350 --> 00:48:41.430
Look for a million small wins.

702
00:48:41.811 --> 00:48:42.991
Look for a million small wins.

703
00:48:43.431 --> 00:48:52.112
Provide an immense amount of value, regardless of whether or not you do something that plays into...

704
00:48:52.752 --> 00:49:02.754
So it's like if you're building this thing and you're providing enough value, even if you don't take part in traditional institution, it's going to be hard anyways, but at least it's going to be progressing you and your company

705
00:49:08.595 --> 00:49:10.096
on how to do it in the right direction.

706
00:49:10.596 --> 00:49:14.897
Yeah, and it's helping build a path for others to do the same.

707
00:49:15.577 --> 00:49:33.263
And ask yourself, like a lot of the founders ask yourself, are you happy, you know, scrounging for capital and money, having to keep up with the Joneses and pretend you can afford to stay in that suite at the Four Seasons or, you know, so on when you should really be putting that in your business?

708
00:49:33.283 --> 00:49:33.403
Yeah.

709
00:49:34.483 --> 00:49:36.024
Do simpler things make you happy?

710
00:49:36.524 --> 00:49:41.347
And does pouring it back into your business to provide value to others make you happy?

711
00:49:41.808 --> 00:49:45.950
And we think that we need to mimic these signs of success.

712
00:49:46.370 --> 00:49:49.232
But then you look to the very top, the most successful people don't do any of that.

713
00:49:50.013 --> 00:49:50.193
Right?

714
00:49:50.213 --> 00:49:51.294
They return back to the basics.

715
00:49:51.954 --> 00:49:52.154
Right?

716
00:49:52.174 --> 00:49:54.476
Into what really provides a more like...

717
00:49:55.556 --> 00:49:59.459
spiritual value and value of like worth to themselves and others.

718
00:50:18.251 --> 00:50:21.653
Systems beat motivation and weight loss is no different.

719
00:50:21.913 --> 00:50:24.814
You need something that holds up when life doesn't cooperate.

720
00:50:25.034 --> 00:50:26.795
And that's exactly what Noom is built for.

721
00:50:27.195 --> 00:50:30.317
Noom is a health and wellness app that combines GLP-1 medication.

722
00:50:30.617 --> 00:50:34.299
That's the weight loss medication that everyone's talking about with behavioral support.

723
00:50:34.539 --> 00:50:43.443
So the medication kickstarts the weight loss and then the psychology side, the daily lessons, the food logging, the real coaching, that builds the habits that make it stick.

724
00:50:43.843 --> 00:50:45.084
Even if you stop the medication.

725
00:50:45.424 --> 00:50:45.944
And it works.

726
00:50:46.164 --> 00:50:49.326
People lose 37% more weight with Noom than with GLP-1 alone.

727
00:50:49.706 --> 00:50:51.507
Noom helps you lose weight and keep it off.

728
00:50:51.768 --> 00:50:52.628
And that's the difference.

729
00:50:52.808 --> 00:50:55.089
The Noom GLP-1 program starts at $39.

730
00:50:55.249 --> 00:50:57.291
It's delivered to your door in as little as seven days.

731
00:50:57.331 --> 00:51:00.132
So start your GLP-1 journey today at Noom.com.

732
00:51:00.412 --> 00:51:02.593
That's N-O-O-M.com.

733
00:51:02.974 --> 00:51:03.214
Noom.

734
00:51:03.574 --> 00:51:04.475
Lose for keeps.

735
00:51:04.895 --> 00:51:10.178
Initial one month subscription from $39 plus tax and $99 plus tax per month thereafter.

736
00:51:10.598 --> 00:51:12.039
Cost of medication not included.

737
00:51:12.399 --> 00:51:14.300
Final pricing depends on program selection.

738
00:51:14.460 --> 00:51:24.604
Results based on a January 2026 analysis of 14,203 NoomGLP1RX program members who logged weight over a 40-week period.

739
00:51:25.104 --> 00:51:28.566
Higher app engagement was associated with greater weight loss at 16 weeks.

740
00:51:29.506 --> 00:51:30.627
NetSuite is a success story partner.

741
00:51:30.827 --> 00:51:32.348
Now you probably know NetSuite already.

742
00:51:32.368 --> 00:51:36.090
It's a software that a ton of companies use to basically manage everything.

743
00:51:36.130 --> 00:51:39.812
Their finances, their inventory, their HR, it's just all in one place.

744
00:51:40.032 --> 00:51:42.033
Now they just came out with NetSuite Next.

745
00:51:42.233 --> 00:51:44.935
This is the AI version of all of that.

746
00:51:44.955 --> 00:51:49.578
So now you can ask it a question the way you'd ask someone on your team who just knows everything about your business.

747
00:51:49.898 --> 00:51:50.818
It gives you the answer.

748
00:51:51.079 --> 00:51:56.782
It keeps you up to date on all the things you need to know about your company and your business without you having to go digging for them.

749
00:51:57.022 --> 00:52:02.646
And it has these AI agents that take care of all the routine work in your business that eats up everybody's day.

750
00:52:02.926 --> 00:52:07.749
Now, the bigger picture here is that AI is starting to change how teams actually work together.

751
00:52:08.049 --> 00:52:11.811
It's happening incredibly fast and most companies don't have a plan for it.

752
00:52:12.072 --> 00:52:12.712
NetSuite does.

753
00:52:13.012 --> 00:52:18.516
They have a free guide called Aligning for the Agentic Era, how AI is changing everyday work.

754
00:52:18.656 --> 00:52:23.679
It breaks down how AI could reshape the way your whole organization works and what your business should be doing to get ahead of it.

755
00:52:23.839 --> 00:52:26.562
If I needed a tool like NetSuite, it's what I'd use and you should too.

756
00:52:26.843 --> 00:52:35.813
So if your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get our free business guide, Aligning for the Agentic Era, How AI is Changing Everyday Work at netsuite.com slash Scott Clary.

757
00:52:36.093 --> 00:52:39.798
The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash Scott Clary.

758
00:52:40.058 --> 00:52:42.481
That's netsuite.com slash Scott Clary.

759
00:52:42.561 --> 00:52:43.861
Monarch is a success story partner.

760
00:52:43.961 --> 00:52:44.662
Now, quick question.

761
00:52:44.822 --> 00:52:46.782
Do you know where your money went last month?

762
00:52:46.882 --> 00:52:48.623
Not roughly, but exactly.

763
00:52:48.723 --> 00:52:49.423
And most people don't.

764
00:52:49.643 --> 00:52:50.583
And I didn't for years.

765
00:52:50.643 --> 00:52:52.764
And that is most of our money stories, right?

766
00:52:52.844 --> 00:52:56.585
When we first start our career, we have one income and one account, and you can kind of wing it.

767
00:52:56.805 --> 00:53:04.687
But once you're running businesses, once you're investing, once you're carrying 50 different subscriptions that you stop paying attention to, winging it gets super expensive.

768
00:53:04.907 --> 00:53:05.927
Monarch fixed that for me.

769
00:53:06.007 --> 00:53:07.988
It is the personal finance app that tracks

770
00:53:08.328 --> 00:53:08.748
Everything.

771
00:53:08.808 --> 00:53:12.871
So that means accounts, investments, savings goals, spending all on one screen.

772
00:53:12.991 --> 00:53:16.694
The first week I had it, it fired recurring charges I'd been paying for months without realizing.

773
00:53:16.794 --> 00:53:22.537
And every single week, the AI recap tells me if spending spiked, if my net worth moved, and what bills are coming.

774
00:53:22.557 --> 00:53:23.478
And I can just ask it, hey,

775
00:53:23.638 --> 00:53:25.780
Can I afford this trip without touching my savings?

776
00:53:25.840 --> 00:53:28.963
And I can get a real answer based on my actual numbers.

777
00:53:29.063 --> 00:53:31.204
It is a financial advisor in your pocket.

778
00:53:31.485 --> 00:53:33.346
It costs less than an hour with a real one.

779
00:53:33.486 --> 00:53:35.268
So write your own money story with Monarch.

780
00:53:35.488 --> 00:53:40.072
Use code success at Monarch.com and get your first year of Monarch Core half off at just $50.

781
00:53:40.332 --> 00:53:43.855
That's 50% off your first year at Monarch.com with code success.

782
00:53:44.296 --> 00:53:50.861
What is the most important mental model that has helped you as a founder, as an entrepreneur, as an author?

783
00:53:52.122 --> 00:53:54.284
And maybe one that is not so common.

784
00:53:55.366 --> 00:53:57.087
Well, I think this is more of an innate one.

785
00:53:57.228 --> 00:54:00.131
I have crippling existential angst.

786
00:54:00.811 --> 00:54:08.059
If I'm not moving forward, I get this extreme fear that I will never accomplish anything again in my life.

787
00:54:08.840 --> 00:54:09.961
It's not paralyzing to you?

788
00:54:11.427 --> 00:54:11.867
Obviously.

789
00:54:12.908 --> 00:54:17.390
I mean, if I let it go too long, it is, and I start drinking, right, to drown it out.

790
00:54:17.791 --> 00:54:29.977
But I've learned strategies over my life that if I just keep moving forward, you know, and if I lose my ability to do something physical, just start moving forward mental in some way.

791
00:54:30.337 --> 00:54:33.639
And if I'm stuck on writer's block, pick up another project.

792
00:54:33.959 --> 00:54:38.021
So, again, I look at myself as...

793
00:54:39.162 --> 00:54:41.343
a chaotic force just like the universe.

794
00:54:42.064 --> 00:54:47.006
But then there's a layer to me that builds these systems and structures to direct my own chaos.

795
00:54:47.966 --> 00:54:53.349
So if I don't know how to finish a chapter in my book, I don't sit and stare at the screen.

796
00:54:54.149 --> 00:54:58.772
I let my energy take me to be productive somewhere else that my mind is dragging me.

797
00:54:59.532 --> 00:55:02.874
Because sitting and staring at the screen will break me.

798
00:55:02.894 --> 00:55:04.935
I actually feel like a lot of entrepreneurs are like that.

799
00:55:05.795 --> 00:55:08.636
I think that, you know, it's like a cliche term, but shiny object syndrome.

800
00:55:09.236 --> 00:55:10.116
I think that's what it is.

801
00:55:10.657 --> 00:55:19.219
You, you, you feel friction in one thing and you start something else that has less friction in it because it makes you feel good.

802
00:55:19.279 --> 00:55:19.819
Now, now.

803
00:55:20.460 --> 00:55:24.561
So I start things that have more friction that are harder thing, right?

804
00:55:25.161 --> 00:55:32.463
You know, well, how do you complete a project then when you have, when you have, I have a million uncompleted projects, but I'll complete them eventually.

805
00:55:32.724 --> 00:55:33.304
Like my books.

806
00:55:34.424 --> 00:55:37.148
I have eight books that are at least on one draft.

807
00:55:37.528 --> 00:55:39.951
My final, what'll be my eighth, I started when I was 17.

808
00:55:40.752 --> 00:55:41.674
It's still not complete.

809
00:55:41.714 --> 00:55:52.467
So this advice you're giving is contrarian to what most people, because, for example, Hermosi would say, just kill everything that's not the main thing and just put all your energy towards that thing.

810
00:55:53.228 --> 00:55:56.531
I let my goals change every day.

811
00:55:56.932 --> 00:56:01.135
The goals you had yesterday might not exist anymore.

812
00:56:01.776 --> 00:56:04.438
And this is what I tell, like when my executives say, what's our goals?

813
00:56:04.459 --> 00:56:06.981
What are quarterly goals, annual goals, five-year goals?

814
00:56:07.381 --> 00:56:09.223
I tell them I don't believe in goal setting.

815
00:56:10.224 --> 00:56:14.748
I believe in a loose idea of where I want to get to and who I want to become.

816
00:56:15.689 --> 00:56:16.870
And I allow...

817
00:56:17.310 --> 00:56:28.334
the chaos of existence to reveal itself to me, to alter my trajectory towards that idea on a day-to-day basis.

818
00:56:29.175 --> 00:56:36.678
And you never feel like you losing control or you never feel like you're losing control.

819
00:56:37.918 --> 00:56:42.822
No, because I recognize that I'm not in control, right?

820
00:56:42.842 --> 00:56:45.624
I'm not in control of the world and others.

821
00:56:46.284 --> 00:56:49.266
And I have a tenuous grasp on myself.

822
00:56:50.047 --> 00:56:55.571
Most people think they're in control of themselves, but they actually have not even a finger on themselves.

823
00:56:56.171 --> 00:56:58.693
So because I realized I cannot control this.

824
00:57:00.347 --> 00:57:08.430
I let the wind blow me and I've just built some rudders to try and direct so I'm not going too far off course.

825
00:57:08.470 --> 00:57:16.353
This brings it back to that, you were speaking with this idea before, if something doesn't go right, which it will inevitably not go right at some point.

826
00:57:17.593 --> 00:57:30.176
Because you're very, I don't know a better word than fluid, malleable in how you pursue or how you sort of conduct yourself every day.

827
00:57:30.196 --> 00:57:32.776
When things don't go right, it doesn't destroy you.

828
00:57:32.796 --> 00:57:41.618
Because if you're rigid, like the business I described, if we rigidly had the structure that we had originally developed, business is dead.

829
00:57:43.817 --> 00:57:46.681
But why do we have to have that rigid goal and structure?

830
00:57:47.763 --> 00:57:47.963
Right?

831
00:57:48.043 --> 00:57:51.068
We have all these components, right?

832
00:57:51.589 --> 00:57:52.530
And we have this goal.

833
00:57:53.331 --> 00:57:58.098
What new structure can we build with components to reach the same goal?

834
00:57:59.273 --> 00:58:18.148
And so when I have this idea of what I want to achieve and who I want to become, when an opportunity presents itself chaotically in my day, I think, does this take me closer to my eventual goal and who I want to become than the project I'm working on right now?

835
00:58:19.650 --> 00:58:23.953
And in that way, I'm not turning down opportunities because I'm stuck in that.

836
00:58:24.472 --> 00:58:25.352
on a singular focus.

837
00:58:25.692 --> 00:58:30.494
How do you make that judgment call on which projects to let into your life without complete information?

838
00:58:31.374 --> 00:58:33.374
Well, we're never going to have a complete information.

839
00:58:33.494 --> 00:58:34.535
I know, that's why.

840
00:58:34.555 --> 00:58:39.876
So I'm asking for me because I don't think I'm so rigid that I avoid opportunities.

841
00:58:40.256 --> 00:58:42.477
But my issue...

842
00:58:43.177 --> 00:58:49.202
is that I am malleable to a degree, but I sometimes have made bad judgment calls on what I should take on.

843
00:58:49.442 --> 00:58:50.783
You always will.

844
00:58:51.184 --> 00:58:56.328
But every time you made a bad judgment call, if you learn from it, you'll probably make a better one next time.

845
00:58:56.888 --> 00:58:59.270
I like failing at things repeatedly.

846
00:59:00.031 --> 00:59:11.560
You know, for instance, there are a couple things on my property, one really to the pond, one to the dam, one to the retaining wall, where I just sit and stare at it and think, what?

847
00:59:11.720 --> 00:59:12.661
how would I do this?

848
00:59:13.301 --> 00:59:20.786
And I don't read anything online, don't ask any advice, and I build something or do something and then scratch my head that didn't work.

849
00:59:21.167 --> 00:59:23.788
And sure, maybe I spent eight hours doing it in a few hundred bucks.

850
00:59:24.149 --> 00:59:24.669
Who cares?

851
00:59:25.249 --> 00:59:28.051
I went through that mental exercise of trying to figure it out.

852
00:59:28.391 --> 00:59:32.214
Then I do it again and maybe I get it a little better.

853
00:59:32.234 --> 00:59:32.454
Huh?

854
00:59:32.474 --> 00:59:33.075
That doesn't work.

855
00:59:33.495 --> 00:59:36.117
Now, after I've failed a couple of times and I've looked at it through a lot of

856
00:59:37.487 --> 00:59:42.592
novel ways, uncorrupted by the knowledge of today, then I go online.

857
00:59:42.852 --> 00:59:47.276
And then I call friends who are experts and say, what did I get wrong?

858
00:59:47.316 --> 00:59:49.218
They're like, oh, you did something really interesting there.

859
00:59:49.738 --> 00:59:56.344
Yeah, because there's no weight of this is the way it's always been done.

860
00:59:56.724 --> 00:59:58.886
But I am a believer that

861
00:59:59.907 --> 01:00:21.287
most successful people and successful lives and when i say successful lives i just mean like you know you you have built a company that's incredible you have a a career that is paying you in an exceptional amount of money you you are more fulfilled you found a way to make the money but also have balance and you can spend so much time with your like any you

862
01:00:22.428 --> 01:00:48.621
life that where it seems like all these different parts of your life you are in the top percentile I feel like you cannot do it by listening to existing knowledge you can't build the biggest most successful company just by copying what other people are doing you can even like in your career if you want to be a ceo of a fortune 500 while simultaneously not having your marriage fall apart and having a relationship with your kids and not traveling 365 days a year

863
01:00:50.362 --> 01:00:56.005
Like you have, there's a way to do that job that is different than the way it's always been done.

864
01:00:56.405 --> 01:00:59.747
This is a big piece of advice I give all entrepreneurs.

865
01:01:00.787 --> 01:01:02.768
One, do not hire people to run.

866
01:01:02.868 --> 01:01:04.930
If you're a startup, don't hire someone with an MBA.

867
01:01:05.650 --> 01:01:09.532
They're trained to think like a multinational or the government, right?

868
01:01:09.552 --> 01:01:11.013
This is why we always make fun of consulting, huh?

869
01:01:11.033 --> 01:01:13.414
Yeah, they will destroy your business, exactly.

870
01:01:14.715 --> 01:01:18.937
Two, if every big competitor is doing something,

871
01:01:19.637 --> 01:01:20.198
Don't do it.

872
01:01:21.319 --> 01:01:23.461
Do something completely different.

873
01:01:24.041 --> 01:01:26.003
Because just ask yourself this question.

874
01:01:26.844 --> 01:01:39.155
If all of your competitors are doing X, but they're worth 9, 10, 11, 12 figures and have decades of experience on you, what do you offer?

875
01:01:40.476 --> 01:01:44.660
You are trying to copy them, a worse version, without the inertia.

876
01:01:45.706 --> 01:01:50.532
You need to find a new way to do this, right?

877
01:01:51.093 --> 01:01:53.796
And when you find a new way, you open up new doors.

878
01:01:55.955 --> 01:02:03.279
So the more people argue that everyone else is doing it a certain way, don't go, okay, I'm going to do that the same way.

879
01:02:03.479 --> 01:02:07.181
That is a stronger signal to say, I have to do it a different way.

880
01:02:08.301 --> 01:02:13.444
So many of the principles that you, that you speak about have built like massively successful companies and people.

881
01:02:14.164 --> 01:02:16.045
Ronan Harari is another Canadian.

882
01:02:16.125 --> 01:02:17.826
He's a co-founder of Spin Master.

883
01:02:18.527 --> 01:02:23.009
And he built, he built, he brought all these toys to market like Bakugan and, and,

884
01:02:24.889 --> 01:02:31.831
Paw Patrol, the point is, at this point, I think he's on the billionaire list, a very successful dude.

885
01:02:32.391 --> 01:02:42.773
But his main thesis is, if you are an entrepreneur, the easiest way to be successful is to start with no experience.

886
01:02:43.473 --> 01:02:48.394
Like start when you're young, start when you don't have all these ideas, preconceptions.

887
01:02:48.914 --> 01:02:50.234
That is what creates...

888
01:02:51.695 --> 01:03:15.937
like this world that you can just do anything in that's what excited me about the hydrogen tablet business yeah it didn't exist exactly so there's no right way to do it there was no regulations there was no industry it was a blank slate yeah where i could just let my imagination take me where it took me and and he he equates a lot of his success to just not knowing how things were done and doing them anyways like crazy stories like

889
01:03:17.057 --> 01:03:25.199
He just walked into the buyer's office at, I think it was Walmart, and basically just sat outside her office until she took a meeting.

890
01:03:25.459 --> 01:03:30.720
That's not how you're supposed to do it, but he was a kid, and she took pity on him, and then she took the meeting.

891
01:03:31.340 --> 01:03:43.483
It's so funny how we get in our head about how the way things are supposed to be done, and then we deliver this mediocre subpar copy of what's already out there.

892
01:03:44.121 --> 01:03:52.966
There's something, and I'll probably avoid naming the businesses, but as my business became successful...

893
01:03:54.580 --> 01:04:17.407
There's a few companies, one that was doing it to try and harm one of my biggest customers, right, that they were in a lawsuit with them, tried to send me a PO, another 12-figure business, that I had a broker that was trying to get in that, you know, was going to launch and they pulled when COVID happened, and then another, you know, approaching 10-figure business owned by a multinational.

894
01:04:17.847 --> 01:04:19.848
Over the last year, year and a half, I'd say,

895
01:04:20.668 --> 01:04:25.671
All three of them tried to pursue licensing my technology, and I told all of them to go fuck themselves.

896
01:04:26.572 --> 01:04:26.792
Right?

897
01:04:27.553 --> 01:04:29.274
And everyone thinks I'm insane.

898
01:04:29.294 --> 01:04:36.959
And I say, well, what will I be giving up and what signal will I be sending to everyone else if I take their POs now?

899
01:04:37.759 --> 01:04:41.422
Now that the customers who have been with me for years have built...

900
01:04:43.355 --> 01:04:48.665
this market, if I just go and sell out to the multinationals, for what?

901
01:04:49.466 --> 01:04:49.767
Right?

902
01:04:50.628 --> 01:04:51.930
I've betrayed them, right?

903
01:04:52.712 --> 01:04:54.896
So I tell all new customers that...

904
01:04:57.668 --> 01:05:03.389
I don't care if you sell a thousand units a month or a million units a month.

905
01:05:03.969 --> 01:05:07.590
What I care about is, are you contributing to a rising tide?

906
01:05:08.310 --> 01:05:10.470
Are you educating people and are you building the market?

907
01:05:11.051 --> 01:05:17.152
Because most, a lot of businesses, a lot of ankle biters, but all the multinationals don't do that.

908
01:05:17.232 --> 01:05:17.952
They're parasites.

909
01:05:18.472 --> 01:05:23.013
They're pirates that look for a market that already exists and go to steal other people's ships.

910
01:05:23.993 --> 01:05:24.213
Right.

911
01:05:24.995 --> 01:05:29.501
And this has enraged the multinational strength to pursue me.

912
01:05:29.821 --> 01:05:31.163
I said, good, fuck you.

913
01:05:31.383 --> 01:05:32.224
I hope you go under.

914
01:05:32.765 --> 01:05:34.327
You should not exist in society.

915
01:05:34.908 --> 01:05:41.176
But what it did do, I went 100% on my meetings at the biggest trade show of the year back in March.

916
01:05:41.817 --> 01:05:45.079
When I ask them, okay, apply, why should I sell to you?

917
01:05:45.339 --> 01:05:48.541
And these business owners, these entrepreneurs, these founders, they get offended.

918
01:05:49.101 --> 01:05:50.002
I'm like, no, no, tell me.

919
01:05:50.342 --> 01:05:58.907
I want to know how you're going to help build this market because I told so-and-so, so-and-so, and so-and-so, I'm not going to sell to you because you're a parasite, right?

920
01:05:59.247 --> 01:06:03.549
I will only sell to people that are contributing to build for everyone.

921
01:06:04.550 --> 01:06:09.633
And they all look at me at first like you're insane, but then sigh in relief and say, okay,

922
01:06:10.473 --> 01:06:13.216
you just relieved our biggest fear.

923
01:06:13.436 --> 01:06:15.098
And now there's a partnership occurring.

924
01:06:15.399 --> 01:06:23.668
Now, all of them fast-tracked, launching my product, sent over, this is our marketing plan to help build this because they know that they're being protected.

925
01:06:23.948 --> 01:06:27.772
They know that they're not going to go out and educate and build something to have it stolen.

926
01:06:28.453 --> 01:06:29.074
by someone else.

927
01:06:29.675 --> 01:06:31.878
There's a lot of animosity for the biggest players.

928
01:06:32.539 --> 01:06:35.163
Yeah, and again, it's not the people within them.

929
01:06:35.463 --> 01:06:36.685
They get caught in the structure.

930
01:06:37.186 --> 01:06:42.293
You know, so I don't want to say, hey, if you're an executive at a multinational, like...

931
01:06:43.395 --> 01:06:44.176
you're a bad person.

932
01:06:44.196 --> 01:07:00.012
In fact, there's a friend of mine who's a professor who was an executive at Nestle and, you know, he left and, you know, he's joined, you know, this nonprofit I'm the director of called the Wellness Science Initiative where we're teaching free critical thinking and analytical thinking.

933
01:07:00.052 --> 01:07:02.855
And, you know, there are tons of good people

934
01:07:03.576 --> 01:07:04.576
in these corporations.

935
01:07:04.696 --> 01:07:06.997
To your point, there's tons of good people in the corporations.

936
01:07:07.257 --> 01:07:10.198
There's tons of entrepreneurs that raised money that lost control of their businesses.

937
01:07:10.478 --> 01:07:15.340
There's tons of great content creators that put content out that are victims of the algorithm.

938
01:07:15.380 --> 01:07:16.260
They become corrupted.

939
01:07:16.720 --> 01:07:25.303
Now, when we first started this, you were speaking about your own health journey and how you went sort of through this identity shift and that's what got you sort of

940
01:07:26.043 --> 01:07:32.087
building the companies that you've been building, they're all focused around health and wellness.

941
01:07:32.488 --> 01:07:32.788
For now.

942
01:07:33.108 --> 01:07:34.869
I've got some others that I don't know.

943
01:07:35.310 --> 01:07:44.496
Where does health and wellness, because we've spoken about like the mindset of the entrepreneur, but you also focus on fixing the body of the entrepreneur.

944
01:07:44.757 --> 01:07:49.300
My first book, because I believe we can't tackle any of this unless we have the capacity we're stronger.

945
01:07:49.800 --> 01:07:53.022
So it's called Stress Hacked, How to Get Stronger in a Civilization Deciding to Break You.

946
01:07:53.383 --> 01:07:54.103
There's the mind.

947
01:07:54.483 --> 01:07:54.664
Yeah.

948
01:07:54.804 --> 01:07:56.105
But then on the other side is the body.

949
01:07:56.285 --> 01:08:06.112
And that's the piece that I think, I think that most people don't understand the importance of clarity of thought, of not having that brain fog that you mentioned.

950
01:08:06.592 --> 01:08:09.894
If our body is drowned in inflammation, we're not thinking clearly.

951
01:08:10.135 --> 01:08:10.635
And then we can't.

952
01:08:11.135 --> 01:08:12.836
We can't even process these ideas.

953
01:08:12.876 --> 01:08:13.236
We can't.

954
01:08:13.356 --> 01:08:13.876
Exactly.

955
01:08:13.956 --> 01:08:25.581
So this book is about understanding the science of stress and struggle and appropriate recovery to build our capacity.

956
01:08:25.861 --> 01:08:27.482
Now, again, we talk about like the...

957
01:08:28.102 --> 01:08:51.182
polarization of society we have one half with the safe spaces that all stress is bad right so they're weaker and weaker weaker then we have the hardcore half that you just need to pile on more and more stress well that's fundamentally misunderstanding how hormesis works right you you need the right amount of stress for you as an individual at the right time followed by adequate recovery and then you grow and get stronger

958
01:08:51.782 --> 01:08:58.651
So I taught this, and then the interlude chapters are all about directing your increased strength and capacity at a purpose.

959
01:08:59.151 --> 01:09:08.022
Because if you don't have a purpose to direct your strength, that strength becomes a weapon, both internally and externally on those around you.

960
01:09:08.603 --> 01:09:10.085
So we need to make good use of it.

961
01:09:10.605 --> 01:09:11.246
For somebody...

962
01:09:12.187 --> 01:09:15.413
that's just getting introduced to your work.

963
01:09:16.155 --> 01:09:22.727
You speak on so many different topics and you have all these different ideas that they can use to improve their life.

964
01:09:23.208 --> 01:09:23.388
But...

965
01:09:25.799 --> 01:09:29.381
What is the main message that you want to leave people with?

966
01:09:29.741 --> 01:09:35.483
The main message is the truth is uncomfortable, but we need to pursue it.

967
01:09:36.623 --> 01:09:41.885
And I use the word pursue because we will never arrive there, right?

968
01:09:42.526 --> 01:09:44.486
And this is something people don't like hearing.

969
01:09:45.027 --> 01:09:48.188
And I talk about this dance with the truth in The Stonewall.

970
01:09:49.469 --> 01:09:58.817
The closer we get to truth, the more we need to be skeptical and ask questions to pull us away from arriving.

971
01:09:59.338 --> 01:10:05.984
Because the second we arrive, we're no longer using, you know, philosophical and scientific thinking.

972
01:10:06.124 --> 01:10:09.347
We've arrived at dogma, at ideology, and we might be wrong.

973
01:10:10.648 --> 01:10:20.852
So we need to do this eternal dance, circling around the truth but never arriving.

974
01:10:20.892 --> 01:10:31.096
Kind of like an Argentinian tango where the lead is fluid and changing back and forth, circling around this destination.

975
01:10:33.388 --> 01:10:38.809
We often think that by hiding and obfuscating the truth, we're improving things.

976
01:10:40.190 --> 01:10:51.452
And in reality, that's almost never the case, basically never the case, because the truth eventually emerges, and what we're trying to protect ends up being destroyed in the lie.

977
01:10:52.272 --> 01:11:01.075
So we just always have to be pursuing this, asking about ourselves, asking about those we care deepest about, our deepest ideologies, everything, question everything, always.

978
01:11:03.655 --> 01:11:07.479
of becoming who you want to be so that you can help lift others up with you.

979
01:11:08.200 --> 01:11:13.104
Have you thought about, you know, I started this conversation off speaking about how you lost your identity and what you were seeking.

980
01:11:15.148 --> 01:11:20.934
Have you decided on what the new identity is or is there ever a firm identity?

981
01:11:21.575 --> 01:11:22.436
Is it fluid as well?

982
01:11:22.456 --> 01:11:23.056
It's fluid.

983
01:11:23.737 --> 01:11:31.165
I talk about, I've been working a lot in trying to come to a cohesive understanding of what the self is.

984
01:11:31.846 --> 01:11:36.531
You know, as my cat is on his last days of life, you know, with stomach cancer.

985
01:11:37.031 --> 01:11:43.153
I've been thinking a lot about why we feel so strongly to our pets and because they're anchors of the self.

986
01:11:43.213 --> 01:11:49.455
They are consistent, static, much more consistent than the people in our lives or even ourselves and our own behaviors.

987
01:11:49.855 --> 01:11:53.036
So we attach so much of ourselves and our identity to our pets.

988
01:11:53.436 --> 01:11:53.656
Right.

989
01:11:54.216 --> 01:11:59.738
Now, when we're attaching everything to the external, that asks the question of, is there a self?

990
01:11:59.958 --> 01:12:01.078
And I think the answer is no.

991
01:12:01.758 --> 01:12:01.999
Right.

992
01:12:02.459 --> 01:12:03.059
The self is.

993
01:12:03.899 --> 01:12:13.883
is an ever-expanding collection of scripts that we run based on our hardware and software, software that we learn to deal with certain situations.

994
01:12:14.283 --> 01:12:18.585
And the situations change all the time, and our physiology, our hardware is changing all the time.

995
01:12:19.185 --> 01:12:21.586
So we don't have a self.

996
01:12:21.646 --> 01:12:23.747
The self is fluid, right?

997
01:12:24.307 --> 01:12:26.668
And this is why, if you think to...

998
01:12:27.768 --> 01:12:31.049
You might have this view of yourself and you behave like this most of the time.

999
01:12:31.369 --> 01:12:35.390
But say you go to your hometown and see a bunch of friends from your childhood or your family.

1000
01:12:35.890 --> 01:12:38.191
All of a sudden, you're a 15-year-old again, right?

1001
01:12:38.531 --> 01:12:45.712
Because your brain has pulled up that script that you learned, that pattern that you learned back then.

1002
01:12:45.932 --> 01:12:48.833
But your physiology is different, so it's a little bit different, right?

1003
01:12:49.133 --> 01:12:51.794
That's why you're like, they'll say you haven't changed a bit.

1004
01:12:52.494 --> 01:12:54.615
You're like, I've changed so much.

1005
01:12:54.995 --> 01:12:57.216
And it's very hard to come to terms with that.

1006
01:12:57.776 --> 01:13:03.038
And because we want to think of ourselves as a unified individual, but we're not.

1007
01:13:03.118 --> 01:13:08.540
We're an almost infinite collection of scripts, of code.

1008
01:13:09.360 --> 01:13:14.366
And so as you're creating these new behaviors, that's why I don't think, who am I?

1009
01:13:14.426 --> 01:13:16.208
I think, who am I becoming?

1010
01:13:16.849 --> 01:13:25.319
When I'm starting this new code, this new script that I'm doing, how is it going to build off of the old ones to direct me into the person I want to be?

1011
01:13:26.020 --> 01:13:28.282
Where can people find your work?

1012
01:13:28.803 --> 01:13:32.286
All the books that you've published, obviously, are on Amazon and anywhere you can get books.

1013
01:13:32.346 --> 01:13:33.387
But where can they connect with you?

1014
01:13:33.447 --> 01:13:34.628
And we'll put everything in the show notes.

1015
01:13:35.188 --> 01:13:36.349
I'm in my social medias.

1016
01:13:36.409 --> 01:13:40.092
I'd say I've got a sub stack where I write with one of my editors on all of these thoughts.

1017
01:13:40.693 --> 01:13:42.514
Most weeks, some weeks, I get too slammed.

1018
01:13:42.534 --> 01:13:45.197
Like, I think we didn't release something this week because I was just too busy.

1019
01:13:45.657 --> 01:13:49.478
But my books, yeah, you can buy them on Amazon for sure.

1020
01:13:49.498 --> 01:13:52.259
You can buy them on my website for a hard copy also.

1021
01:13:52.519 --> 01:13:55.420
And all profits are going to a nonprofit I have.

1022
01:13:56.380 --> 01:13:57.660
Or you can download them for free.

1023
01:13:57.960 --> 01:13:59.201
I just care that people read them.

1024
01:13:59.641 --> 01:14:02.622
So the PDF and the audio are free.

1025
01:14:04.642 --> 01:14:10.148
I am not writing my books or disseminating my message to make money.

1026
01:14:10.188 --> 01:14:13.611
I'm losing tremendous amounts of money doing it.

1027
01:14:14.332 --> 01:14:17.975
But for me, I didn't go into business for money.

1028
01:14:18.476 --> 01:14:22.860
I went into it for autonomy and freedom because my interests were philosophy and science.

1029
01:14:23.400 --> 01:14:25.702
But when I was younger in my teens, I thought to myself,

1030
01:14:26.503 --> 01:14:33.067
How can you truly be a scientist or a philosopher if you are begging a person or an institution for funding?

1031
01:14:33.547 --> 01:14:37.029
That means you're overseer and you're beholden to their interest.

1032
01:14:37.590 --> 01:14:41.252
And what they permit you to do is corrupted by their goals and intentions.

1033
01:14:41.972 --> 01:14:46.955
So that's why I went into business and learning how to make the tool of money.

1034
01:14:47.235 --> 01:14:56.601
That's why I've been so resistant to accepting funding, because at the end of the day, I'm using it as a tool to do the things I want to do in life.

1035
01:14:57.342 --> 01:14:59.824
which is pursuing truth and philosophy and science.

1036
01:15:00.745 --> 01:15:02.788
Alex, ask every guest this.

1037
01:15:03.749 --> 01:15:09.255
If you could go back and tell your 20-year-old self one piece of advice, what would it be and why?

1038
01:15:10.096 --> 01:15:13.480
Don't ever ask that question again, is what I'd say to my 20-year-old self.

1039
01:15:13.500 --> 01:15:13.580
Yes.

1040
01:15:14.100 --> 01:15:18.907
I spent a lot of my 20s ruminating on who I could have been until I accepted who I was.

1041
01:15:19.809 --> 01:15:24.576
And I often tell people I don't believe in regret, right?

1042
01:15:25.117 --> 01:15:26.118
At least not anymore.

1043
01:15:26.839 --> 01:15:28.782
Because I asked, do I like who I am?

1044
01:15:30.114 --> 01:15:30.374
right?

1045
01:15:30.935 --> 01:15:38.020
And so long as the answer is yes, that means I'm a culmination of all my failures and successes.

1046
01:15:38.581 --> 01:15:42.604
So I wouldn't want to change anything because who knows who I'd be if I didn't have that.

1047
01:15:43.124 --> 01:15:47.848
Now, if you answer, no, I don't like who I am, then you ask the next question.

1048
01:15:48.408 --> 01:15:54.713
Well, you can't regret, you can't know anything 20 years ago, but what can you do today to become someone who you like?