Yuri Elkaim - Founder of Healthpreneur | Building An Empire Against All Odds

I lost all my hair to an autoimmune condition at 17 years old. It was a good kind of kick in the butt to just start reflecting on like, why did this happen? And then what could I do to improve it? At 17, he was a rising athlete. But one night after practice, his body betrayed him. His breathing was labored. His body breaking down in ways he couldn't understand. Then in the shower, clumps of hair falling out in his hands. Weeks later, he was completely bald. Doctors had no answers. I actually played pro soccer my early 20s when I graduated. 25, I came back to Toronto, and then I went back to school to study holistic nutrition. That was the moment that changed my life. Literally in two months, I regrouped all my hair. The biggest mistake people make is they're trying to be liked by everyone, and it's the single biggest reason they fail in business. Because they don't say what they want to say, because they're afraid of stepping on toes. For years, he searched every possible treatment. He was told to manage his symptoms, not to find the cause, but he refused to accept that fate. Instead, he did what no one else could. He cracked the code. Advertising is almost like using Facebook or Instagram as your personal blog. It's just people see your stuff more often. Like you're paying for visibility, what you don't get necessarily are the conversion. But the problem with organic is that it tastes forever, not everyone sees your stuff, and every platform is paid a play. If you can learn that game, it's one of the fastest ways to grow a business. Today, he's a New York Times bestselling author, a trusted health expert, and a man on a mission to help 100 million people by 2040 reclaim their health. This is the raw, unfiltered truth of your real kind. Welcome to success story. I'm your host, Scott Clary. The success story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network. HubSpot not only supports the show, but they support entrepreneurs. That's why it's such a huge fan of HubSpot. And I'm very grateful for HubSpot for supporting the show because they help entrepreneurs. And as a fellow entrepreneur, I know it takes a lot to grow your business, a lot of audience attracting, a lot of sales, a lot of marketing, a lot of lead scoring, a lot of channel management, a lot of content, a lot of long days, late nights, a lot of weekends, a lot of wishing there wasn't easier way. But there is with Breeze, this is HubSpot's new collection of AI tools. It's easier than ever for marketers, for entrepreneurs to attract audiences, to increase leads, to score customers, and to close deals fast, which means pretty soon, your company will have a lot to celebrate. Visit HubSpot.com slash marketers to learn more. I'm excited to do this today. It's going to be a lot of fun. I think that if we look at your career and you went on this journey from pro-athlete to health expert, to business coach, talk to me about a major inflection point. There's obviously been many, but something that really stands out in your mind, there was a wake up call, pushed you down the path that you're on today. Yeah, I'd say the first thing is, probably the most notable one, is the fact that I lost all my hair to an autoimmune condition at 17 years old. So my dad's Moroccan, I had really bushy eyebrows, you know, longer brown hair, hair all of my body, Sasquatch level. It was actually nice and to lose all my hair, even though a lot of people said it must have been really hard. You know, for a moment it was, but the reality is that, I didn't know why it happened, so that's really the best thing in the butt, to just start reflecting on, like, why did this happen? And then what could I do to improve it? And so that really led me down that path of going, you know, down the rabbit hole of health, and going to school for kinesiology and health sciences, and then nutrition. And that, I mean, that really was the starting point for this journey. Like, I wouldn't really be where I am now. I don't think if that hadn't happened. And so, although a lot of people, really hard, I think I had a pretty good head on my shoulders at the time, where I was like, well, it's only hair. People of way worse. And I look, I always kind of look at things in my life is, how is this happening for me? What can I learn? How can I grow from this? And, you know, when you, hindsight's all of 2020, so when you look back over everything, it's like, everything happened exactly as it was meant to be, because it put me on this path. So yeah, so that was 17, everything, but gaining so much more of the process. That is a tough age. I can, I can understand why people project on you. Oh my god, that would have been hard, because I can only imagine at 17, that's not something that you want to be going through. But I do understand, like hindsight's 2020, if it didn't happen, I wouldn't have pushed you down the path that you're on right now. Um, even that event, it was sort of, uh, an eye-opening event, because it showed you that what a lot of people know about health and nutrition, um, only accounts for a very small amount of our health. I mean, if something like this happens, there's no playbook, there's no rulebook for how to treat it. This is something that I'm assuming with sideline most doctors, GPs, family practitioners. So what was the thing that you learned about health, wellness, healthcare, medical system, um, that you wanted to solve for when this autoimmune disease basically got rid of all your hair. It's such a young age. Two things. One, I was, I was really fit, because I was, I was trying to be a pro soccer player. That was my whole teenage existence was like, I'm going to play pro soccer. So I didn't, I didn't distinguish the difference between being fit and healthy. So I was fit, but I wasn't healthy. I was tired all the time, sleeping half, half my days pretty much 12 hours a day between naps and sleep at night. I thought it was because I was active. But the reality is my body was just like worn out from dealing with years of garbage. I'm talking about the standard American diet, all sorts of shots, antibiotics, the whole bit. And I think my constitution was maybe a little bit more susceptible to just going a little bit haywire. So I'm not saying those exact same things would happen to someone else. But in my case, they did. And so as I started going down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out like what's going on, the, the only thing we knew at the time in terms of like what my, what my parents knew was like, let's go to the doctor. And so I started to really quickly see that the alopathic community was completely clueless with respect to how to deal with this. And it got to the point where, I mean, it didn't even get to the point. It was like the first course of action was, let's, let's inject some cortisone into your scalp. I'm like, that's never going to happen. Like that's not solving the problem. So when I went to, you know, GPs or immunologists or, you know, the whole spectrum, like, all those solutions. And that's when I started, you know, we started opening up doors into more of the alternative. Right? So a traditional Chinese medicine, naturopathy, all sorts of different practitioners. And there started, we started seeing some better results there. But still nothing was really, when you have alipusia universalis, which is like total body hair loss, the recovery is like less than 10 percent in terms of like, you know, regal in your hair. So we had tried some stuff. And, you know, some of the stuff was a bit better than others. But I like the fact that it was more root cause as opposed to let's just inject cortisone in your head, which didn't make sense to me. So during that process, and this is like an eight-year process, from the time I'm 17 to like 24, 24 and a half, you know, we're going to all sorts of specialists, trials, sorts of stuff. And, you know, meanwhile, I'm kind of like finishing up high school, going into university. I went to University of Toronto, which is one of the top 20 schools in the world for kinesiology and health sciences. Any of the stuff, like I went to school for kinesiology. And I was very, very skilled and skilled up, if you will, on the human body, biomechanics physiology. And it was amazing. But I was still clueless when it came to nutrition. I didn't understand how important nutrition was, until so I was, I actually played pro soccer in my early 20s when I graduated. And then I decided to retire at 25. I came back to Toronto. And then I went back to school to study holistic nutrition. And that was the moment that changed my life. Because I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. So you're telling me, I remember the first day learning stuff about nutrition and the body that I had never heard in my life. And I'm thinking, okay, I played pro soccer. I went to one of the top 20 schools in the world. And I still had no idea about this stuff. And I was like, whoa. So I started to really adopt a lot of the teachings of like, okay, maybe let's clean up our internal environment and like remove some of the allergenic foods, take some of the burden off the immune system. And literally in two months, I regrouped all my hair. Now, fast forward 10, I was obviously don't have any hair because long story short, I got a tetanus booster from my doctor and then my hair fell out again. But needless to say, I started to recognize like, holy cowlick, if I can clean up my body, wow. But the more important thing for me was how much energy I felt. And that's why I ended up writing the book, the all day energy diet was starting to see how powerful like the internal body is when it's just cleaned up. But I'm not saying going on a radical diet. So I'm just saying we're moving the garbage and just adding better nutrition in. It changed my life. And I had to share that with as many people as possible. And that's again, like what really moved me in that direction of wanting to share that message. But yeah, again, a lot of it was very like it was non-traditional, right? So I was never one to be looking at the number of calories or the percentage of protein or the number like the required intake of vitamin C on a daily basis that very diatetic, alopathic approach never really resonated with me. And I started to see that it was a lot of the stuff that was almost French. Like, understanding this, the stuff that we can't see that's infinitely more powerful than what we can see. Or if you look at a food label, how most schools teach nutrition, at least in the traditional model, is you look at the nutrition facts. How many calories? How much sugar? How much protein? No one was talking about the quality of ingredients. I'm like, so I could be a diabetic, not that I am, but I could be a diabetic and Coke Zero would be okay for me because there's no sugar. Well, what about the fact that it's got aspartane? And that's a neurotoxin. Like, so I started to learn all this stuff. And it was just like it blew my lid. And I had to share this with more people. So that became a really important foundation for a lot of the the message that I shared over the next 10 to 15 years through my health business. It's really unnerving when you think about all the stuff that we put into our bodies and how ignorant we are about how food and allergenics and our environment impact us. And I've had a couple conversations on this podcast about this now. I think when you look again, you mention this, but when you look back and the fact that you lost your hair, this was a signal that your body was giving you, what you were putting into it was horrible for it. Most of us don't have that signal. So most of us just go through life, not really feeling like we need to investigate what we put into our bodies because there's nothing, there's no, there's not such a pronounced red flag that happens to us. We don't lose our hair. We're kind of just, oh, we feel okay. We're not great. We get sick a couple times a year. It's normal, whatever. And you go to your family, doctor or GP, if something radical isn't happening, they're not going to talk to you about going to some alternative medicine route. They're definitely not even very well versed in nutrition and foods and not only macronutrients, but micronutrients. The whole health system has no idea how to teach somebody how to live truly healthy lives, how to work out. It's a sick care system. When you look at what happened to you, that was a blessing because it allowed you to investigate into research. But most people don't have that luxury. And what happens, I feel more often than not, is that brain fog, that lack of mental clarity, that just feeling tired all the time. Now we look at people that their hormones are all out of whack. They go their whole life feeling like shit and they don't even know what feeling good looks like. And I think that that's actually horrifying, because we're living longer than ever. But I don't think we're living well. I don't think we're actually healthy. So when you now, I mean you wrote a book about it, you obviously built a community around health and true wellness and energy and sort of people performance and optimal performance. What are some of the, some of the major levers that people can look at in their life so that they can at least get a glimpse of what they could be, or how they could be operating, or how they could be feeling, or the energy levels they could be having, or the sex drive, they should be having like all these things that I think are not optimized right now with a traditional American diet. What are the things that people should be looking at? Allergins, foods, whatever. So I mean, it's a great question. And the things that I remember that I've realized is like most people normalize their situation. And part of my mission is always meant to help people see how bad it is. Without making people feel bad about what they're going through, but it's like don't normalize the facts that what you're going through is normal. Like just because it's normal doesn't mean it's natural. And I see this so much, even as we're supporting our clients, because we help health professionals where their businesses and like and seeing the conversations they have with prospects. I've had migrants for 20 years, and they laugh about it. I'm like, that's not even what are you laughing about, right? It's so painful that they have to laugh about it so they can sleep at night. And the human... As a species, we're very interesting because we will not change until the pain of our current situation is very, very dramatic. So for me, it was kind of a blessing. And I was like, low energy. I didn't think it was a big deal. It was my area. Now something has to change. I'm going to realize in retrospect that low energy is a warning sign. That's something far greater, far more dangerous is brewing underneath the surface. It's almost like a volcanic eruption just waiting to go. But a lot of times, and this is the thing is like for me, it happened at 17. For someone else, it might happen at 52. For someone else, it might happen at 75. And we go through life and we normalize. It's like, oh, it's just part of aging. Or it's like, well, maybe it's not. So I think the biggest thing that I would recommend for anyone, to be honest, is to just go on a cleanse. And I know it sounds a little bit extreme, because here's the thing that I recognize, was that when I started to get rid of garbage, when I say garbage, I mean the standard American foods out of my diet. And I simply just nourished myself with whole foods, more plants, more nutrients. And I got rid of the allergens, whether it was dairy, gluten, et cetera. For the first time in my life, I was like, holy shit. This is what it feels like to feel normal. You know, whatever. But the thing is like, you can't, I can only tell someone that. I mean, you can't tell someone, they have to experience it. And so for me, it was like that, that like come to Jesus moment almost. I was so blown away by the difference, for me personally, in my energy, where I was going from hours of sleeping to six hours and bouncing out of bed. And I'm thinking, this all happened in a week. Like, what's going on? And then noticing the correlation, between my energy and my hair we grew up. I was like, huh. So I think the single most effective thing that someone can go through is actually just cold turkey going to cleanse. Because it's going to be very difficult. You're going to feel like shit for a couple of days. But after you do that for a week, two weeks, when you go through that discomfort of like all the garbage in your system, making this way out, and your body starts to feel alive again, that's the moment. When you have the epiphany. And at that point, then you can make a decision from a place of information. Because now you can say, okay, now I know what it feels like to be amazing. Now I have the choice. Do I want to add the stuff back in? Now that I've seen the other side. And I think that's probably the most eye-opening process any of us can go through. And it's what I've seen with people, whether they're doing like a 24 hour fast, like intermittent fasting. They could do it. And then they get through the fast. And they're like, oh my god, I didn't realize how I'm not even hungry. I'm just bored. And how fixated I am on food. And so just going through a one day fast is such an eye-opening introspective process that we're just going through life on autopilot. And these moments, whether it's a 24 hour fast, or a seven day cleanse, although it can be challenging the first time you do it, it's probably one of the best things you can never do. Because once you experience it, you will always have that reference point. And then for everything else you do in life, then it's just a matter of like, well, what's the standard? Do I want to come back to the adult? Or am I okay living down here? And that's a very, very powerful place to live through as opposed to taking someone's advice. Just like, oh, you should definitely do this. You'll feel better. It's like, well, until you feel better, you won't really know. It's a cold turkey, clean everything out, experience it for yourself, and then you can decide. It's so interesting how, how what you're advocating for is, is just removing everything, and then adding back in and seeing how it impacts you versus, what a lot of people do, which is they keep layering on more and more through their existing shitty condition. They'll take a caffeine, they'll take some sort of neutropic, to gain mental clarity, they'll take this supplement, that, or whatever. So you're just adding on all these, you're trying to improve a shitty system. Like, let's just reset the system at its core. Now, you build a whole business around this. So even talked, I mean, it's talked to me about, the best business analogy is blue ocean because this is not stuff that people have done before. So when you're bringing a novel concept like this, to the market, how do you get people to get on board with your fitness ideology, your health ideology? Because fitness ideology, health ideology, if you've ever been in this space, there's almost like a, a zealotry to what people believe. Like, if they've been told one thing by one fitness influencer about keto, or paleo, or, you know, low carb, high protein, or, you know, like moderate carb, moderate protein, or, going to the gym and doing like, things, but like people get so stuck in their ways, it's very hard for them to change the perception of, of what their fitness should be or could be. So when you, as somebody who understood that this happened to them, you're trying to build a business around this concept and this ideology of, of remove, and then re-add and focus on good foods and whole foods and nutrient dense foods. Um, and, uh, you don't have to go with all the fat diets, or, or whatnot, or, you know, or now people are adding on ozempic or everything like that. How do you build a business in this space, successfully, when it's against the grain of what people know? Yeah, I mean, if number one, if you look at, you know, any type of, quote, unquote, influencer personality, someone who's got a voice, the, it's all about the conviction that they have. That's it. Like, all of us are running micro-religions. That's what all this stuff is, right? So someone who's all keto, or, you know, the animal diet, or those are micro-religions that people are building. They're saying, I'm a zealot for this philosophy, and this is the only way of doing things. And to be honest, um, it's radical because it's, it's all these other options don't make sense except for this one thing. But the reality is, to stand out, you have to take a stance. I mean, if you look at someone like, um, liver king, I don't know if you've seen history. Like, he is very, very opinionated and he is very articulate. Whether or not you agree with him, or is relevant, but he's built a very large business, because of who he is and how he shares his philosophy unapologetically. I think the biggest mistake people make is they're trying to be liked by everyone and it's the single biggest reason they fail in business. Because they don't say what they want to say, because they're afraid of stepping on toes. And no one cares about people like that. It's like, we don't want more plain vanilla. We want people who are opinionated and have a stance on stuff. It's polarizing. You will bother some people and they will throw stones at you. At the same time, you will magnetically attract those people who agree with you. So the funny thing is like, it's not even about being objectively true. Like, there is no objective truth when it comes to health. Like, this is part of the thing that I've recognized. Like, you listed off like a dozen different things. Someone might do well on Atkins. Someone might do well on a carnivore diet. That's what I've been doing for the last six months. And I loved it at the time, but I couldn't sustain that forever. And I think it's, for me personally, I'm like, I don't really care what you do. Just do something that you can sustain that feels good for you and your lifestyle and your body, right? Like, over time, I became when I started and I think, I get to have these mitra. I was much more dogmatic, let's say about, you know, eating more plant-based foods, the acidose toxicity in the body. And for me, I've evolved to be a lot more liberal with respect to my food. Like, I enjoy coffee, but 10 years ago, I demonized it. And that's just been part of my own evolution. And I think, you know, I want to give people, and I've always wanted to give people permission to, you got to do what's best for you because it's exhausting to see people try to fit into these labels and they met a guilt and shame they put on themselves for not being perfect. Like, oh my god, I had a piece of bread, I'm the worst. Yeah. I had to go and repent my sins. And it's like, no. Like, the reality is the energy you put into the food you're eating is probably more important than the food you're eating. So if you are having a really nice salad but it's not locally grown, 100% organic and you feel like it's not good enough for you, energetically your body's not going to simulate those nutrients to the fullest. I think whatever you're eating, just enjoy it. And, you know, to the best of your ability, educate yourself about, this is part of the problem is most people have no clue about their own body, they have no clue about nutrition. And on the flip side, there's so much information that it becomes overwhelming and confusing. So I think part of the journey is you have to experiment, you have to try things out. And there's nothing wrong with trying something out and then recognizing that it may not make a lot of sense for you. But I think a lot of people have a, they almost score themselves like that didn't work or I failed at that thing. It's like, did you or did you just learn that it didn't make sense for you? And I think just give yourself a little bit more compassion because the reality is you can live a very good quality of life with any of these diets. But it's about really figuring out what's going to make the most sense for you. Right? If you look at the blue zones around the world, the people who live more than 100 years old, they don't all have the same diet. And in fact, the diet is such a small component compared to everything else, whether it's community or living in a hilly village where you're walking up Hillmore, there's all sorts of other components. And I think we just obsess, especially in North America, we obsess so much about the food and go to Europe. They don't give a shit. They just eat food, they enjoy it. There's no guilt or shame. It's like, it is what it is. And I just think the energy and the amount of focus we put on being perfect through their food, it is the biggest problem. It's just like, enjoy the friggin food. It's all good, right? And do your best to have a well-balanced approach. Whatever that might look like for you. I just want to take a quick break and thank the HubSpot podcast network for supporting success story for the past two years. 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If you're ready to stop drowning in receipts and you're ready to stop chasing down payments here's what I want you to do. Head over to freshbooks.com to start your 30 day free trial. No credit card required and for all you success story listeners out there I've got something special. Get an exclusive 60% off for six months when you visit freshbooks.com slash pricing dash offer. Transform your business with fresh books today. That's freshbooks.com slash pricing dash offer for 60% off. Well that's the thing right like it's never about diet it's about lifestyle changing. People hear that but I feel like they don't live it. I feel like they do get all caught up in like one diet or the other. People are social creatures. They want to be a member of this particular tribe. I think people like to be associated with a tribe and and diet is a big part of people's like people's personality. So if they see things that's working it's almost like this is the only way that it can work and I think the most annoying person in the world is the person that just started the diet that's working. It is the most frustrating person to talk to and just hang out with because they just can't talk about anything else but that is not a healthy. That's not a healthy message because like you mentioned there's a lot of different ways to live your life there's a lot of different ways to be healthy you shouldn't feel shame if you're trying one diet or the other it's not the diet that you saw talk about on YouTube if it works it works. But I do believe that what I wish and I think this is what you do very well. What I wish more people who are trying to build businesses in the health and wellness space I wish what they would do is they would have their their message, they'd have their diet that they want to teach to people or they'd have their framework but they wouldn't pretend that very well. Not many people do that and it makes me mistrust and not trust a lot of health and wellness thought leaders. The reason why I trust you so much is because you're like this is what's work for me I'm going to teach you how to do this particular thing but know that there's a whole bunch of other things that can also help you. And I think that that's it's a real message I don't go to liverking for health and wellness advice but there's a hint of truth but I know there's a lot of bullshit as well because he's saying that this is the only way to be healthy and there's a lot of bullshit for a whole bunch of other reasons with liverking but that's besides the point because you want to understand that the person who you're taking wisdom from an insight from has your best interest in mind and you can't believe that if they only say that this one diet is the only way to achieve health, wellness, abs, whatever you want to accomplish. It's a very interesting conversation because from business perspective it really helps when you have a very polarized stance but your point when trust is at an all-time low and people see everything we live in a pretty sophisticated market whether it's business or health information so people see everything or try a lot of stuff for me at least the way I approach this even with business because I've been online since 2005 so I have a very let's call it a very opinionated philosophy about how to build a business online but I always reference context which is like hey the reason I suggest this is because I've done all of this and this stuff can work it'll just take forever so this is what we've found to work really well for us and our clients and you know if you're this type of person and my work for you as well as opposed to saying this is the only way to do it and there's nothing else that matters I don't to your point I don't think it builds credibility and trust as much whereas if I can tell someone listen like there's a lot of value in blogging like if you want to blog cool it took me seven years to build up our blog to 1.4 million visitors per month I'm not saying it doesn't work it just takes forever so if you want to do that cool or you could do this which is just faster I always want to give people you know consider themselves experts as they have this one way of seeing the world and I think it really like shoots them in the foot when they can't speak around the other alternatives because everyone's thinking about the other alternatives well what if I did this I could also do that but if you speak to those all of a sudden it's like oh shit you've already considered all these things and this yeah doesn't make a lot of sense based on that logical argument that's been my approach at least but again I think that comes from experience like if you've been around whether it's health or business for a long time you can speak from that and that's why I think there's it's so easy to be honest to have a better business these days because most people are gurus after like a good month now and they haven't well that's the thing and I think that's why it signals low trust because you really don't have an you don't have an understanding of all the different ways you can lose weight all the different ways you can build the business and it just shows it shows you don't have it shows lack of experience really that's what it signals okay so you work with you work with people that are trying to transition from just being a quote-unquote personal trainer to building a business that's sort of the core demo that you work with and it shows the whole spectrum of wellness practitioners either they're in a clinic and they want to get out and want to move online because they want more time and location and freedom or they already have a service offering, a coaching offering online but they're like how do I even like how do I grow this because I have no way to be like be seen, be visible so we'll help them with the acquisition of new clients and then how to deliver amazing results even if they never saw someone in person and that's really our with us how many different versions of of entrepreneurship that you go through so you were a personal trainer and then you did online coaching you obviously built a massive YouTube channel you wrote a book so you've tried a whole bunch of different things there's probably a lot of stuff that you've tried that I have no idea that you've tried oh I mean she held it after it did more yeah that's where it all started yeah so if you look at sort of your own journey because I know that's probably where all this teaching and the sense that comes from walking through sort of how you evolved your business over time and that can give some framework for how other people should sort of emulate yeah so I think you know for me my first business was I was sick and tired of seeing people in person I was like burnt out from one on one so I'm like I don't ever want to see humans again I'm going to come online and read ebooks and live the laptop lifestyle it didn't happen so I struggled for a couple of years trying to figure that out and obviously it didn't work after that and living on poverty line income I got some coaching and I got some clarity around maybe I need to delve some marketing skills and learn about systems and how to do this whole internet thing so I went through everything like we did heavy amounts of information content marketing YouTube blogging eventually social media when it came out wrote the books did the summits we got into physical products so from from my perspective I'm all looking at okay where what is someone's context like if someone wants to sell supplements like I'm not really going to be the guy to come to you like hey like there's other people out there that teach that but if you want to grow a higher ticket coaching type of service that is going to dramatically transform someone's life well number one is you have to like people have to know you exist because it doesn't matter how good you are and that's the fundamental biggest issue for any smart person it's like I'm like I have all these letters behind my name but no one knows I exist well doesn't matter how smart you are there's a lot of less smart people that are doing very well because they understand how to market themselves so I'm all looking at what's the context of someone's situation coming in if you want to sell a $33 a month membership then unless you're open to a better alternative assuming you want to help people transform and make more money again I'm not going to be the membership guy but if you're here to talk about how do I get clients who are going to pay me several thousand dollars to transform their life then my belief is that there is one vehicle that's the fastest and for us we call it a perfect client pipeline it's essentially running ads to an evergreen masterclass that leads into booking a discovery call and that's how we've built health burner from like zero to multiple eight figures and it's how we've helped more than organic like YouTube all that stuff doesn't work it just takes much longer like for context it took me seven years to make my first million dollars in my first business which was to the average person from a health perspective it took me seven weeks when I started a health burner because I had that experience and I was like okay I'm not going to do any of that stuff anymore because it was just massively complex and I'm going to do one thing that I know how to do really well and I'm just going to focus on that fast with health burner so a lot of what I share is from a lot of trials and tribulations and a lot of the stuff I did in my previous business and I'm really happy I did a lot of that stuff because it provided me a tremendous amount of experience to recognize that well I don't want to build part of the reason I sold the company was I didn't want to be involved in it like it was I created a medusa like it was so complex and there were so many products like mediocre in terms of how it was optimized because we just didn't have the resources in bandwidth to optimize every single product and funnel and it was so complicated so on the surface it looked really successful we helped half a million people to better health and you know becoming newer times best-selling author but on the inside I'm like I want to get out of here like I want nothing to do with this thing because it was just crazy and so I see people understand you want to go down that route but I was actually telling my team one of the biggest one of the most challenging types of people to work with is someone who's like I want to do this thing and they haven't actually entered the jungle yet so they don't know how bad it's going to be until it happens because the people that you work with whether it's an atro path or some sort of health practitioner or coach these are people that are just one-on-one and they go down this yeah so they go down this entrepreneurial rabbit hole and they're like oh my god first of all I would assume that many people do not even go down this entrepreneurial rabbit hole but once they do they see like a million different ways to monetize what they know and they're like let me just try and do all of it and that creates a really shitty great sir really shitty business and I mean to no fault so it's like you know we guarantee clients in five seconds where you don't pay it's just nonstop like do this thing you have to create an app like it's very very overwhelming and I think you know what we tried to do for our clients is we want to give them a very singular path and like just put the blinders on because all this stuff can work but not a bit will work if you try to do it the same time and so we want our clients to be sold on this process which we teach and then as they build the foundation and they have it running top like if you want to have a podcast or if you want to build a YouTube channel buy all means go for it it's great like those in the long as you know in the long term they are going to be the source of your best clients people who already know like and trust you but it just takes forever to start there so it's like if you have to earn money now unless you have a briefcase of cash like sitting around you have to be able to have a way to acquire clients to be as opposed to you know trying all sorts of different stuff and again the problem is like a lot of people are so we're very hopeful that the thing that we haven't tried is the thing that's going to help us get to the promised land and a lot of times it's just like you haven't done the thing you're doing well enough to even get there so it's not about jumping ship it's about I often say to my clients like the grass is in green or on the other side and but at the same time it's very challenging for most people to just stay in one lane and go deep and I was that guy for many years in my previous business so I'm like okay cool got that going next and it was and so part of what we do are very best to keep our clients almost like walking our kids on the sidewalk just like stay on the sidewalk don't jump on the road let's just go this direction what you're saying is very interesting who want to become entrepreneurs do is for some reason they screw up the definition of an entrepreneur and they feel like entrepreneurship is about becoming famous or becoming well known and I don't really understand why those two seem to be synonymous ideas but then people try and build audiences on social media or they start a podcast and all of a sudden you've just added to your day and you don't have a product or anything to really sell to that audience so then you're just you get into this this almost this trap this hamster wheel of creating content for nothing at all whereas if you are a service provider so the strategy that you are telling people to try is opposed to just building an audience just to build an audience or building a community and a way to run ads to a masterclass that's going to educate the audience and then we're going to convert those into and the high ticket product is what one-on-one still or is there is another product it can be either one it can be one-on-one we're big advocates of group or leverage coaching because we've actually found that it produces better results like you can't scale your time so it just provides more results that's what I was wondering yeah exactly and then so this way you're not worrying about getting this massive audience on Instagram for no reason at all yes you can have some sort of content that paint was an authority but ultimately the opportunity to become an authority to convert this audience is in that masterclass that makes up for the lack of a million Instagram followers and honestly like I'm not saying like not having an audience because a huge asset I mean if you have one by all means it's just going to help you a faster like when we have clients come into us and they have 50,000 Instagram followers we're like well you're going to crush this in the first seven days because we can tap into that but what I'm most proud of is we're able to shine so we're helping practitioners who have some of them and they don't have large following some of them don't even have an online presence and they're just like I just know how to help people with migraines or help people with iBS and it's all word as mouth it's all word of mouth and they're clinic or people fall in their laps and we're able to amplify that that awesomeness and the beautiful part about that is like with advertising but you know they go through a process but I look at advertising I look at Facebook and Instagram as my personal platforms like instead of like yes we create content now but for the first three years of this business we did nothing other than this pipeline so I had no Instagram no YouTube, no podcast, nothing and that's because we just wanted to focus on one thing but still if I look at all the content we produce and put out 10 to 1 on the ads so even if someone sees my ads over and over and over again compared to content there's no difference the only thing that matters is that people see my face over and over and over again what are the cognitive biases called the mere exposure effect so basically what that means is that when we are exposed to someone more often we have a tendency to like them more or trust them more we'll see what happens this week because he had three times as much three media coverage compared to Clinton and it doesn't even you get a monkey running for president and if the monkey had the most exposure they would most likely win so advertising is almost like like it's like using Facebook or Instagram as your personal blog it's just people see your stuff more often like you're paying for visibility what you don't get that have your messaging and offer dialed in but the problem with organic is that it tastes forever not everyone sees your stuff and every platform is paid to play so if you can learn that game you know it's one of the fastest ways to grow a business and what you're optimizing for again is building a business not just becoming famous to become famous and I do believe that people have some vanity metrics and feeling like oh I'm doing a good job give myself a pat on the back is it actually leading to revenues is it actually leading to people paying you for your product or service and I think that's what you're solving for you're I don't know why people I don't know why people want to be famous I feel like people just didn't want to make more money and I know people just don't want to make money but I know people just don't want to make money I don't want to make money I'm looking to build I'm looking to hire some sales reps, severs and some of my email marketing is that something you can help with to help us go from 15k per month to 100k per month and as soon as you said that I'm like his whole business unfolded in front of my eyes I'm like, for your size following just so you know, your business should be well over a million dollars. And it's because his business wasn't optimized, as you said, to actually grow a business. Like he just had a lot of followers who were doing nothing. And I said, just for context, like our clients don't even hire their first VA until they're at about 25 or 30 K per month, let alone hire a whole market and team in sales reps. Like you have no margins to even do that. Yeah. A lot of, again, again, we always do the best we can is what we know. And most people just don't know how to build a business. Like they think they have to hire a PR person so they can be on TV. And then they're on TV. And then it's like, then what? Like I was on Dodge Ross in 2014 and we sold 10,000 books in a day. And then the next week, nothing. Correct. Flip on the radar and everyone's like, that one appearance is going to be everything. It's nothing. It's a blip on the radar. If you don't have a foundation underneath that, you don't have a business. You're just going to be jumping from one thing to the next. 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If you look at that funnel that you've built it, I have a couple of questions. And I think these are questions that people would ask or reasons as to why they wouldn't jump into the funnel the way that you've built it out and why they're trying to hire sales people and trying to build an audience. So in 2024, post iOS update, Facebook ads, it's really hard to make them profitable. So people are looking for alternative, well, no, I mean, like in pre Facebook update, yes, I know maybe because you do this for a living. So obviously this is the answer to the question. So what is the strategy to still use Facebook or Google, or I don't even know if you use Bing, or some sort of performance marketing successfully? What is the, so that you still run a positive row as a five X, you know, a $1 spend, $5 back kind of campaign? So the most important thing is you're offering or messaging. So a lot of people can build a funnel. I mean, you can get click funnels and build some pages and stick them together, like great, but that doesn't mean anything. So we look at, we call it a hike and bringing off her. So there's like five components to it. And essentially part of it is really like the messaging is very important. So with respects advertising, you know, some of the best audiences are just broad. So like 30 to 50, no interest, like just broad. And Facebook's algorithm or meta is so advanced now that if your messaging is on point and you sort of develop, like you started getting conversions, like leads or calls, but whatever you're optimizing for, meta will find more of those people. And so it's incredibly, a lot of people sort of freaking out when Facebook started getting rid of a lot of these very targeted interests. And I'm like, guys, this is actually way better because now your ads management is so much easier. You don't need to granularize all of your campaigns. You can just have a broad campaign, but here's the key. And I've been saying this since 2016, message is everything. Your messaging is everything. It's not about the campaign structure. It's not about the audience. Like, yes, obviously that factor is into it. But if your messaging is horrible, if it's ambiguous, if it's not clear, if it doesn't speak to the pain points for the desires, it's never going to work. So that's 100% the most important thing on any platform. The second thing is understand the economics of your business. So I speak with enough people where I've actually shot some videos about this on YouTube. And, you know, they want to sell a $200 course, right? So I'm going to sell a course on a passive income. And I'm like, cool. So I noticed you've got like 100 followers on Instagram. What's the game plan? Like no one's, no one's buying the course. And I'll break down. I'm like, let's just say that you wanted to run ads. Cool. So you're going to pay what a dollar per click to run ads to like a sales page that like less than 1% of people are going to buy from because they don't even trust you. So when you break down the math economically, it doesn't even make sense to run ads to anything. I was going to high-ticket offer with the exception. And the exception to this is if you are a very, very experienced marketer where you understand copywriting to a very high level, you know how to shrink together a very compelling offer and upsell flow where you can increase the average order value to whatever. But you have to understand that like running ads to a low-ticket offer is one of the hardest things to ever make profitable. My whole most of my first business was on that stuff. And just for context, my last big push in that business was a free-plus shipping offer for a cookbook. So it's a free cookbook. We'd send it to your door. You pay $7.95 for shipping, but you can't make money on that. So we split test at nine different upsell flows. Each one had a combination of four different upsells, so 36 possible variations, all so that we could increase the average order value from $18 to $22. So we're profitable. And I'm like, what am I doing here? This is ridiculous. By contrast, if you have, for instance, like a perfect client pipeline where you're running ads, you bring people into watch your masterclass a percentage of them are like, wow, this makes sense. Like I drive with your philosophy. The next step is to book a call. If you spoke to 10 people, and let's say you charge $5,000, and you were the worst at converting people on the phone. Even if you just enrolled one person out of 10, which is very, very normal for most people, you're still way more profitable than if you try to sell a low-ticket item and having a fuss with upsell flows. So the benefit of, so one is the messaging has to be dialed in. The second is the economics under business and notably charging a higher ticket right off the bat. Because one, you'll attract people who actually want to solve the problem. Like you're not just getting tips where transformations required. You're helping someone fundamentally put an end to the problem they're suffering with. And that's the most important thing. It's like, why sell something for $5 when you could actually solve the person's problem? And that's it for five grand. Now are people gonna say it's too expensive? They can't afford it for sure. But they're gonna say that anyways at $100. So you don't need to speak with 100 people to get one yes like you would on a $10 ebook. You talk to 10 people get one yes, you're profitable. And then you build the skill of learning how to have these conversations. So then on 10 conversations, maybe it's three or four people say yes, and all of a sudden you four extra business just by building the skill and nothing else in the funnel has changed. And that just gives you way more margin. So the reason I'm all in on this, at least with our market, is that we're working with health professionals, not sales professionals. Right, we're not working with professional marketers. And what having a higher ticket off for allows them is it gives them so much more margin to not have to be perfect. Because if they charged $200, then they would have to be maniacal but every single part of their marketing and they'd go crazy. Now it's not to say that they shouldn't look at optimizing those things over time, but that's not what they wanna do and nor do you have to do that stuff. So those are the two big things to making meta ads, Facebook ads work is the messaging and then the offer in terms of having a higher price point. So when you look at all the different things, different products that people can launch, you can have these lead magnets that are really free. If you have a $100 item or a $200 ebook or whatever, then maybe that is better suited. Maybe that could even be used as a lead magnet for a higher ticket offer as opposed to you trying to, like you mentioned before, it's very hard to make that profitable. So maybe don't be running ads to that. If you had a large organic audience that you've already built, then maybe you can throw that into the mix and then up sell from there, but ultimately you don't wanna be spending money to acquire customers at a sub $200 price point. That could be difficult. I mean $20 or whatever is very difficult. 200, you could maybe do it, but still $5,000 makes a lot more sense. So if you start again, and this is all about focus, it's all about focusing on the thing that's gonna make the most financial sense for your business. So I was not saying that you can't have a $100 product or a $20 ebook or a lead magnet and a high ticket item. It's like, okay, where should you start? So you can start to make a little bit of money. So once you start to make a little bit of money, first of all, you can scale that. Maybe you realize you don't have to have $100 or $20 or $50 product. Maybe you realize you can just stick with that, but also then that'll give you some, that'll actually give you some revenue to help you build up these other products properly so that you're not stressed financially as you're trying to figure out the perfect possible, add campaign for a $20, $30, $40, $50 product. Maybe that, or maybe you don't wanna, maybe you don't wanna run out, so maybe you hire somebody to help you with your social and you've grown organic audience and that product for that. But ultimately, money makes the world go round and you need some money to be able to test all these different things. Start with high ticket. When you want somebody to start with a high ticket product, how do they justify the value of that product? What are the things that they should look for in structuring that product so that it makes sense? I heard you mentioned transformation, which is important, but what does that actually mean to somebody's trying to build something? So the unique position that we're in with our clients is we're talking, we're helping world-class experts. These are practitioners and doctors who can save someone's life. We're not just like, I just got certified last weekend. I lift some weights and I'm gonna bring some clients on. We're talking to people who are world-class and the challenge with our clients is that they actually devalue their own value because they're so close to it. And I'm like, hey, guys, remember in my eyes, there's no other profession that is more important than if someone's had debilitating migrants for 20 years. If they've been up and down on the weight roller toaster for 10 years and they feel like shit, every time they look in the mirror, and you can come along and help them eradicate that problem, is that not worth two, three, four, $5,000? Well, I mean, I wanna make health accessible for everyone. Well, good, come to Canada and see how that works. It doesn't work, right? When people don't pay, they don't pay attention. And if you wanna make healthcare accessible for everyone, my take is fill up your cup first with those who are willing to meet you at that level and then give everything else away for free. And you can do that, whether it's like for me, I'd say we have our hard-take coaching and then everything else I give away for free on YouTube. And if you wanna donate to charity, you can't donate to charity if you have no money. So that's the context like you have to be an expert at solving a significant problem for someone. So if it's, and again, it's not just, you don't just have to be a health professional officer, you can be into business where finances are accounting or anything where someone has a bleeding neck problem or a very, very strong desire. And obviously if you go upstream, up market, where you're dealing with business owners or people in whatever neck of the woods they're in that are a little bit more sophisticated, then it's generally a little bit easier than working with absolute beginners, right? Like if you're working at beginners in any market, it's gonna be a bit challenging to go premium price. So the most important thing is to recognize, okay, where's the problem? Where's the bleeding neck problem that I can solve? And then understanding that it doesn't even matter what people charge. If you have competitors which you probably will in any market, who cares what they charge? I would be looking at like obsessing about your clients instead of the competition. And at the end of the day, pricing in my eyes is 100% arbitrary. There's really no formula to saying, it should be 5,500 instead of 5,000. No, it's just like where do you have the most conviction? And the way I look at this is like, as long as the value you're helping someone or you're given to someone and more specifically the outcome you're helping them achieve is perceived or true in terms of its value relative to price, then you can price it wherever you feel comfortable. So if someone's able to save someone from 20 years of migraines, like how do you even put a price tag on that? Yeah, that's one of the ways you understand what you're saying. But I know you have anything for that. Yeah, but also like with health, well if you've got migraines, is that, is that like if you're working somewhere, is that a liability or an asset? Oh, you can't show up to work every other day. Do you think, well, what would happen if you lost your $80,000 of your job? Now we have an $80,000 of your problem, not just the 5,000 or a solution. So a lot of this is being able to have the conversation to show people the context of the gravity of their situation. And that could be a health thing. It could be, you know, whether you're a contractor or like it doesn't matter what it is. It's about being able to articulate the problem someone's experiencing. They have to be in enough pain to want to change. And then your solution needs to fundamentally solve the problem once and for all. And if you can do that, then you, I mean, there's no reason you shouldn't command premium prices. Because in my experience, you always get what you pay for in life. Yeah, right? The only exception to that, I have personally noticed is wine. I don't really drink, but I've also had $900 bottles of wine that were not as good as a $20 bottle. So, I mean, but wine is not healthcare. Oh, wine is not solving. Wine is not solving, you know, financial problems in your business. Wine is not solving the fact that my customer pipeline is driving up, drying up, excuse me. And I'm, you know, my revenues declining year over year. And I have no idea what to do about it. And this is the only way I support my family. So I think that, yes, I think that bleeding neck problems are a little bit different. And I think that you do get what you pay for. I want to understand one other piece of how you position this. Because when you sell a high ticket product or a high ticket item that's solving is bleeding neck problem, the perception from the customer is my problem is so unique to me and I need personalized care. I need personalized triage to fix this thing. Whether or not it's a migraine or the fact that I'm getting audited by the IRS, I need, I need someone to come in and like hold my hand and solve this, which that's great. That's what will allow them to spend the $5,000,000. But you mentioned something before. You mentioned like group coaching is very effective because it's one person teaching 5, 10, 20 people. Obviously that hours of that per of the, of the, you know, the coaches, consultants, service providers time is now worth exponentially more because they can do it in this group coaching session, which allows them to scale. So how do you, there's two different ideas here. There's two different points of view. On one end, you have the customer who wants to spend $5,000 for personalized care. On the other end, the service provider wants to scale and bring 20 people onto a call at once. How do you reconcile these two ideas so that you can build a business around it? Because even, even if you do $5,000 an hour, there's still a point where that doesn't scale. You only have so many hours in a day and we're all optimizing for freedom. So you do need to have this group coaching environment to really get a significant return on these types of, you know, these type, a significant return on your expertise. But that runs conflict to what the people are trying to accomplish. Yeah, so it's a great question. And I'll address this in two ways. One is contextualizing the value. And second is understanding, like a lot of times, we're not even aware of what we're not aware of. So a lot of people think that one on one is better because they're giving them our personalized attention. But the example I like to give is like, if I had a magic button that I could press on your forehead and it would get you to the outcome you want, or we could have a one hour conversation once a week over the next couple of weeks to eventually get you there, which one would you prefer? And most people would say the magic button. It's like, cool. Well, I don't have that magical power, but what it tells me is you're more interested in the outcome than how we get you there. It's like, okay. So is there any, and now again, if you have a track record and what you're doing, and it's like, well, is there any reason to believe that with our proven process, you would not be able to get where you want to go with this type of setup. So part of that is recontextualizing the value. And if someone is still like hell bent on a special snowflake, then you can certainly add office hours into a group type of program. So let's say you have your group coaching, and it's like one to 10, one to 20, whatever it is, you can still offer office hours. What office hours are like, let's say you take a two hour time block on a Friday from one to 3 p.m. You chunk it down as a 20 minute time slots and you give people the option to book in on those specific times. So now it's on your terms, not just some random one hour conversation here and there. And I did this when I started, and I realized that all these 101 conversations were the same conversations I was having in our group calls. I'm like, I don't need to have these conversations anymore. And the other component to this is that it's not just like the leverage that you get as the coach or the business owner. More importantly, it's the leverage that is created by having this community of people who support each other. And what you'll find, and this is what we have found, we actually have clients from around the world, and they organize meetups in their local towns. Like, hey, who's in Vancouver, who's in Boulder, and they'll get together in these co-working spaces and have these meetups. I'm like, this is beautiful. Like people are starving for community. And so there's this whole piece that a lot of people don't even recognize until they're in it. And they're like, this is probably the most valuable piece. Like they'll come for the content or the system, but they'll stay for the community. So that's the first thing in terms of recontextualizing the value, the second way, just from a positioning perspective, is if you want to position your group as more interesting, more valuable, or as the more ideal thing for someone to purchase, just price your one-on-one out of the universe. So for me, if someone wants to work with me one-on-one, it's 160 grand for six months. You have one call a month, and you have to be doing, you have to do $2 million more already. But why would you do that? When you get more access to me, and up to 40 coaching calls a week with my entire team of world-class experts for pennies on the dollar. Yeah. You don't need this, just do this instead. It's like, well, okay, so now if price anchored this, I'm just trying to push people away from even considering that. And now this seems like a much better, not just price point, but there's more value. There's actually more personalized support. There's more of this over here. And so that's one of the things I strongly recommend people consider if they're wanting to minimize their one-on-one, is just price it out of love or if someone gave you that money, be like, shit, cool, I'll take it. I'll do it. Yeah. I think that's really smart. As we spoke about, this is exactly how somebody can scale this high ticket offer. You speak about systems, you speak about automation, you speak about building out these processes that allow you to scale it even further. What would be some advice as somebody who set this up? Now they want to sort of take it to the next level. You mentioned like you have coaches that come in that are not you. Where are the highest leverage points that somebody can scale this kind of business? So number one is skill. There's no replacement for skill. Because if you don't scale up, you will be forced to hire people prematurely and that will eventually put your business in a very tough situation. So what this looks like is, I don't want to do sales calls. So I'm going to hire someone else to do that. Okay, cool. So you're making 10 grand a month. You're going to hire sales rep who's going to sell your $2,000 program. Number one, there's no margin for them to have commission on. And let's just even say you had to charge more and they come in and you haven't done this enough. So now you can't even coach them. And you've got someone taking the most important piece of your business, which is acquisition, off your plates, you're like, cool, I don't have to do that. Well, guess what's going to happen? They're going to suck on the phone. They're going to tank your business. And this actually happens to a few of our clients because they decided not to take our advice. So I don't want to do sales calls. Like, shit, I almost bankrupted my business and now they're taking it back on. So number one is you have to build the skill. Like there is no replacement. I think one of the biggest problems is a lot of people, they're trying to delegate everything. They're not able to delegate, they're advocating it. They're like, I don't want to do marketing. I'm going to hire an agency. Cool. So you're going to pay five, 10, 15, 20,000 a month. And then let's just say what happens when that relationship ends? You're left with your pants down and you have no skill. So that's not a good position to be in. Or you could learn how to be a better communicator, right? Which is the, I think the number one skill for a business owner or CEO to have. And that can translate into your emails, into your audios, your videos, your messaging under Facebook ads, whatever it is. And eventually when you want to hire someone, at least you can see, like, you'll know what good looks like and you can manage and coach them on the sales front. I don't want to do sales calls forever, but I was doing five to six calls a day when I first started this company like seven years ago. But my vision was, I'm going to crank this out over the next couple of months. I'm going to build examples of what success looks like. Once I've built up the margin, then I'll go find one or two people to support me and build out from there. As opposed to saying, I don't want to do this, you do it. And then, you know, like you're screwed. So the number one thing is to understand you have to build the skills and the skills will stay with you forever. Like you can lose your business, but you'll never lose your skills. So that's the first thing and the skills will always they'll change as your business grows. So it's going to be like sales and marketing related skills initially, then it's going to be leadership skills over time. That's the first thing. And then I think, you know, looking at just that alone can help you get to more than a million dollars just by scaling up around the messaging, the sales, and then over time, the next skill is going to be, how do we take those skills that we've built? And now, how do we implant that into other people that can then do the work for you? So that becomes more of a leadership and managerial skill, which is now transferring, so it's not just coaching clients, but it's coaching your team to coach your clients and then building all that up. So it's just, you know, new skills as you go through with the process, but that's the most important mindset to have in this whole process. It's not about passive income. It's not about, I just want to coach my clients. I'm going to delegate everything else. You got to learn the skills. You got to sweep the floors metaphorically speaking. Yeah. Your business will be much, much stronger for that. So what we do here is like, we have like a high ticket solo printer business. You're saying that this can get to, without even without even adding new people into the mix, this can already turn into a million dollar business to seven figure business. Yeah, that's like you. So just to clarify the, so our clients, again, in the neighborhood of like a two to five thousand dollar prize point, our clients will typically get to about 30 K per month by themselves. Okay. Okay. From there, you know, having assistance, build it out a little bit more. Yeah. But not a, not, not a significant amount of infrastructure to scale this to a seven figure business. So when, when you can build these systems, you built the funnel, you built the systems. Maybe you have a VA. You're still doing a lot of the sales calls yourself. You have a super high margin. Yeah. Business that's doing over seven figures. And then if people want to scale it more, that's when you start to bring in sales leaders or you teach over because you've already been doing the sales to over a million dollars. So that's when you can start to bring in somebody who you can teach to sell your product or service. But you have, you now you have a little bit of budget to pay for premium talent too. So they're not going to screw everything up. I think people delegate a little bit too soon. I do think that people delegate a little bit too soon. But and then once you, once you build the systems and frameworks, and you start to hire after seven figures, then you can scale this to unlimited. There's really no end. Yeah. Yeah. Like the ceiling is the, I mean, there's, there's no ceiling. Like there's just like wherever you want to take this. And just understand that the bigger you want to go, there's going to be more complications, right? Like it's fine, but you can figure that stuff out as you grow and as you build skills. And as you have as you build the right team around you over time. So I mean, all of it is figure outable for sure. What would be the biggest mistake that people make when trying to transition from service provider into solo printer? I think the biggest one is kind of just touching on what I just mentioned is they still want to just do the delivery. I just want to talk with clients and patients. It's like great, well, that's not going to happen if no one knows you exist. So you have to understand, you have to wear the hat of marketer promoter. However you want to label that. And you're going to have to do that for a moment. And it's also the highest value you use of your time. Like if you sell a $5,000 package and you speak to three people for an hour each and one of them says, yes, there's nothing else in your business that has a higher effective hourly rate than doing that. So you're better off getting support on delivery first. You keep doing sales calls because you're going to sell your thing better than anyone else. And then you just take a huge amount of load off your calendar on the back end because you've hired a coach or a client success manager to help own a client success. And then over time, the last thing that in this type of business model we get off your plate is the actual sales calls because it's still the most effective use of your time. And but yeah, like it's you have to, we have to move from, I'm just the practitioner, the technician to the actual owner of like, how do I own lead gen? How do I take in acquisition? Do that for a moment. And then you can expand the team over time from there. So we basically given like a business masterclass for a service provider again, agnostic of industry on how to take what they're doing right now when they're just doing deliverables and delivery to their client and find a way to turn it into a real business. I know that people will probably want to go down the rabbit hole. I know that you have a lot of content online where should people go to connect with you, website, social, all that. First of all, thanks for having me on the show. It's been a really great conversation, Scott. I guess the two easiest places. Number one is if you want to just devour our content, you can just go to my YouTube channel. So it's at healthpreneur. And you'll see all of our stuff on there around business growth, marketing mindset, sales the whole bit. If you want to connect with me a bit more personally, you can just hit me up on Instagram at healthpreneur. Just say you saw me on the show. We'll hook you up with some cool stuff to help your business. And yeah, those are the two best places. Is there anything that I should have asked you some last words of wisdom or insight for people that are sort of going through this journey and trying to build a business that you think would be useful? It's always hard to answer that question, but I'd say just like as a parting thought, is lengthen your time horizon? Like big runways allow for bigger aircraft to land on them. So if you have a very big runway, you can create something pretty substantial. If you have a very short term focus, you're gonna have a limitation of what you can do with your business. And I understand there's always the balance of like I need to make money today, but also a lot of short term decisions can lead to things that don't necessarily do good things for a reputation. And I think part of the reason I've been in business for 20 years is to the best of my ability. I've taken a longer term approach, like with our current company healthpreneur. We want this to be around beyond my life. So that's a very long term vision. And that supports a lot of, I think, better decisions. So to the best of your ability, like just think as long term into the future, when we say something hasn't worked by when, like it hasn't worked dot dot dot yet, right? So lengthen your time horizon, and that's probably my parting thought on that. Amazing, all right. This is the last question that I ask everybody. You've had a great career. You've gone through multiple seasons in your life. If you could go back and tell your 20 year old self one thing about life, about health, about business, whatever it is, what would that thing be? Higher mentor sooner and specifically, higher mentor sooner. Like pay to play, because it changes the game. I waited a while to do it. It's the single best thing. It just it buys you speed, it buys you time, single best thing ever.