The Mindset and Science of High Performance Entrepreneurship w/ Wired For Success & Claudia Garbutt #scottsthoughts

Welcome to success story, the most useful podcast in the world. I'm your host, Scott D. Clary, and today You are going to hear me on the wired for success podcast. The wired for success podcast is hosted by Claudia Garbott She speaks about the science of self-development. So we spoke about self-development, passion. We spoke about mindset, mindset for entrepreneurship, but also mindset for sales and marketing and scaling and growth So we went into the science of the mindset required for success as an entrepreneur or somebody that's trying to build something out So if you want to go listen to more of this type of content go check out the wired for success podcast again This is me being invited as a guest on the wired for success podcast Hey everyone and welcome back to a brand new episode of the wired for success podcast when we talk about all things thanks science self-development and entrepreneurship that help you get to that next level of success in your life and business Today I'm bringing you another interview episode and my guest today is business executive entrepreneur and podcast host, Scott D. Clary He has sold and marketed to the most iconic Fortune 500 brands throughout his career His work has been featured in over 100 new sites and publications He speaks globally at industry conferences and has had articles in insights featured in Forbes Wall Street Journal, Hakanun, the startup and others He currently runs a global software as a service sales and marketing organization and is the host of the success story podcast When he interviews inspirational people mentors and leaders. So I'm really looking forward to hearing his insights on what's working and what's not working and digital marketing and sales right now So welcome, Scott and thank you so much for taking the time to be on my show today Thank you Claudia and thank you for giving me the opportunity. I really appreciate it It's my pleasure So let's start by talking a little bit about your background and how you ended up doing what you're doing It sounds like you're still working a nine to five while building your business as a site hustle, is that right? That's correct. Yeah, so I think from a young age Firstly, I guess it would help to get some context from the family that I came from just a very brief primer So my my background is not in entrepreneurship. My background is not even in private industry or tech Family is mostly law enforcement police Father worked for ceasus which for to put it in perspective is so much like a Canadian Secret service intelligence CIA type Yeah, so very very You know Family of government, but in the law enforcement around My my path was probably going to be I thought it was going to be either law enforcement or or criminal law or some form of law I was in pre law criminology and university Started working in tech for telco early on in my careers. I was coming out of high school throughout university Ended up making good money in sales in tech Just realized that I was quick good at it and always sort of Was in that top percentile of people that I worked with and in whatever group I was in because I had moved up I moved up for three different departments as my career progressed Company was bell Canada to the very very large telco and in Canada um and as I was finishing up my undergrad um I I kind of had the choice I could keep going and Keep seeing where my career could take me or I could go and I could go back to school potentially law school I actually finished all the tests required for policing um, but I chose not to go down that path or apply for any police forces Chose not to go back to law school. I said I'll get myself till I'm 30 see how much money I can make and if you know I can't make it in tech and I can't I can't really really you know be an executive of a You know director VP whatever of a large company then maybe I'll revisit my career But I was doing well. I was doing very well and I felt like every year almost I was either moving to a different department or you know, there was some there was some progression every single year Because of my performance. I thought well it's silly to just cut this short. Let's see how far to take this So anyways, so after university kept working same same company for bell for a while moved into a sales leadership role at another company Then sales and marketing leadership and then moved into individual consulting for a while Because of course as a young ambitious salesperson and sales a marketing person You thought your God's gift to business which you obviously aren't but you thought you know I look at what I've done in my career like I'm making x amount of dollars Somebody else can benefit from you know what I've learned and obviously you find a very quickly You aren't that special and it's difficult to just go into a consulting business I was tried it on my own Was overworked tired, you know stressed out Did it with partners who I found who were also trying to be like almost a fractional CXO So outsourced CXOs and it it was a little bit better We we close some large accounts as fractional CXOs has some great contracts still at the end of the day It was all of our first forays into entrepreneurship and consulting And it was difficult because as a consultant anybody who's a consultant will will recognize this You put in your 40 hours of client work and then you have to post to social go find new customers You have to go build like and that's the stuff that you start at five o'clock at night or six o'clock at night So because we had the long-term contracts that we were very happy with we were actually In in one company various companies, but we were in office for like you know We'd drive down into the office show up at nine o'clock work for five hours as a as a fractional CXO And then you drive home and then you're like okay So this contract is going to be great for six months But what do we do after that because you realize it's not a job It's a contract and you're the consultant so You have to go figure out how to get more business anyway So it was difficult none of us were really set up for it properly. We didn't really know we were getting ourselves into So I well we all went our separate ways We all went back to work for companies. We all went back in the permanent executive roles in companies And that's sort of what's led me to where I'm at now. So I joined one particular company It was called Excitem they've now been acquired because I've worked them over the past two years to grow their business They were acquired about you know recording this July first about a month and a half ago So it was it was a successful two years But over the course of that two years Again, something that will resonate with entrepreneurs if you I went into consulting. I knew that it was not going perfect I knew there's a better way to build my own thing So I joined a company and I and I thought there was an opportunity there and there was and it did well and And I did good work over the past two years But also I was still building out my podcast while I was there. I was building out An email list which now has parlayed into a newsletter that I send out So it turned into a full-time job plus side hustle is that as my newer version of entrepreneurship and that's worked out Well, it's been a more sustainable version we can talk about You know sustainability long-term long-term entrepreneurship side hustles That's what I've lived over the past two and a half years and that's what has led the podcast to be a success Has led the newsletter and the email list and and the brand that I've built to be successful Not not the not successful as in like I'm the epitome of podcasts. I'm the epitome of people the right newsletters, but It's it's growing and in my mind that's the metric that I look for is it growing? Am I getting a larger community? Am I getting more people listening more people reading the newsletter? Whatever it may be. What's your metric? But by all accounts across You know all the different things that I do on the side they're all growing And now they've grown to the point where they're turning into more viable businesses because I've built a fair amount of you know audience around these assets and That's where I'm at now. So that's sort of my my story That's my that's my calls. No, it's story. So that's a very interesting story and I mean, do you see yourself staying um with on that trajectory long-term. So do you want to stay um An employee and an entrepreneur at the same time or do you plan on leaving your company? Yeah That's a good well. I think I think it would be naive to say that somebody who is very entrepreneur Penereal excuse me would stay with the company for the next 30 years right now When when do I leave that's a good question and I don't know and I don't know if I leave And I even have perhaps one more career for it. That's also not off the table Um Right now what I'm doing. I'm doing fun work and I and the reason why I Haven't decided if I'm gonna leave is because first of all I've built out processes and systems to allow myself to maintain the same growth trajectory on my podcast and my newsletter and my community and my brand and potentially launch new things across that audience without having to commit extra of my hours. So I can still work 50 hours a week for a job and I have now Built out this now I have now I'm building out a team that can actually support the side hustle because now the side hustle is monetized So now this is something that is a little bit more sustainable long-term and the reason why I don't Feel the need to leave anything yet is because um The topics that I discussed in my newsletter in my podcast are relevant and in line with what I live and do every single day All right, so I speak about marketing tech innovation business entrepreneurship sales all the stuff that I literally do like when when I break down how to market how to take a product to market how to Develop demand how to find new leads how to run outbound campaign This is all stuff that I do in my day to day So it's easy for me to speak about and it's easy for me to stay relevant because I'm always trying to figure out to do better for my actual product My actual company and it's also because I have the opportunity to because it wasn't a startup that was acquired Now I'm responsible for think about it like an innovation unit within a company So I'm responsible for new ideas new software taking it across and put it in perspective We're acquired by grass-fally grass-fally 600 million dollar business at about a hundred sales reps For the channel partners globally I'm a small innovation, you know within that that has software products that I can take across this huge Organization this huge sales organization and marketing organization And I can test things that's scaled and normally in a startup environment I wouldn't be able to just because we don't have the resources so that's also exciting So when do you leave while you leave when obviously you don't enjoy the work you're doing But even if even if I did leave grass-fally I don't know if it would be the end of my career because I think I still enjoy working in startup environments. I still enjoy Really doing incredible stuff and there will be a day I think that if the growth of the podcast and and my personal brand takes off I have to decide what do I do with that audience what I do with that show and you know Is it consulting again then right is it selling something is it? Who knows maybe it's just building up a big enough network that you have some sort of setup like John Lee do mass entrepreneur on fire where he makes 100 to $200,000 a month just an ad revenue because he has such a huge listenership for his podcast Who knows but I can tell you even if I was at that level It would still be fun to work with companies Maybe it wouldn't be what I need to do because you're making a lot of money other places But you if you like doing it then it's not something you ever really want to give up So yeah as long as you enjoy it It's there's a difference because some people Keep staying at a company because they are afraid they are afraid to take that legal faith And be on their own so that's one big thing but as you say It's less period driven for you. It's more like joy driven because you enjoy what you do So I guess that's different. Yes, of course and don't get me wrong It's naive to say that I would love just Getting rid of my paycheck, but but I'll tell you one thing Because I've built up everything that I've done Gradually and I've built it up in a way that's sustainable and I can manage it while I'm still working um Now the audience for the podcast is big the audience for the newsletters large enough where I can monetize it I have sponsors and the revenue coming in from that is Equal or greater to the salary So it's at the point where I could like I could just focus and pivot and quit But again, it's about what you what you want to do So I don't feel the need to do it yet. I do feel the need to hire good people to build out a process to build out systems That allow me to scale up my my side hustle that is making good money So that I don't have to work 14 hour days Yeah, that's what I feel the need to do, but I don't feel I need to quit yet. Yeah You you're doing it yourself. You know what you know exactly what I'm talking about I do and you kind of work 14 hour days Well, you can for a short period of time, but at some point Your system like your body system is just going to break down. So yeah, what do you want to know? Now we all know that entrepreneurship is this huge roller coaster And you have these ups and downs and you have all those new challenges that arise on a constant basis So I'm curious at this point in your career what what aspects of your life and business do you find most challenging to manage right now What aspects of my life and business do I find most challenging so we've kind of touched on this Um, they kind of touched on this before and I think this is this is relevant because this is something that Anybody who's ambitious enough to try and build their own thing will have some hint of this personality quirk in them So You know, you're very kind. Um, I missed two podcasts recording sessions before this and you said This has never happened before you said it's got you miss one more. You're cut. I said oh my god Claudia I'm so sorry likely so you asked why so So I was in the process of moving over the past two months and um Movements all already tough, but I have the personality quirk of So it's so funny like so so my my my spouse might my better half and you know I say that because we're supposed to get we're supposed to get married quite soon But we're not yet because of COVID so we actually put it off because of COVID anyway So that's gonna be in the next you know six months a year and where we're gonna get married and she would never have the zoom wedding She'd kill me but so So anyway, so uh so she is of the mindset of like if you you know for moving Of course you want to get it done But it doesn't all have to be done day one So when the boxes come in and you move your boxes in you know You're gonna take some time. You're gonna over the next two three weeks. You're gonna unpack the box It's just for me. It's like I get anxiety if it's not done that day like if the like Which is it's not a it's not a normal Realistic expectation of moving you can't expect to unpack and put up everything and cut all the cardboard boxes and put it all away and build all the furniture but like That's what I want to do That's what I want to do and and it it's even worse now because so you know, we we moved We moved a big move because we were in a home and we were moving some stuff to one condo and moving some stuff to another condo And whatnot so we're splitting everything up and obviously if you You have to get some new stuff for both locations because you don't have double everything So you know, we're getting some furniture We have to build and whatnot and like when the boxes come in that I have four bookshel sitting in like that room right there And it's like causing me anxiety that I can't start building them or getting them finished until Saturday Well because I have I have a lot of stuff to do but normally Maybe before this move Before I basically worked myself to the point where like I was overexhausted and and You know when you're overexhausted when you when you wake up in the morning after working after working through job or whatever And you also end up building stuff or unpacking at night and I can tell him overexhausted when I start to sleep through my alarm When when regardless of I could have like the alarms loud. It's like a you know Whatever, it's not a peaceful alarm. It's not like a nice little Nellity the way chef. It's like I do the the loud alarm right and when I when I sleep through that in the morning That's when you know that you've over that you've done it too much because that that's your body telling you something And and it got to the point where during this move because I was trying to do everything at once and unpack everything at once I would sleep through two three four alarms in the morning um and and it wasn't like I was waking up hitting snooze. It was just Sleep right through though So I think that that's something that I struggle with that the personality trait that I struggle with and it can be effect Obviously, you can see that could be an effective personality trait in the right context But it can be taken to an extreme which is not healthy obviously and then you and then actually end up doing more harm than good Because you're back sore or whatever and and you slept through and now you maybe you missed a phone call for work or whatever But you know you're not getting anything then the next day either because You're done. You're you're you're exhausted. So that's something that um I guess it could be a blessing in the curse Depending on on what you're trying to take on But I think you have to be self-aware of that personality work because entrepreneurs will always try and do too much um and it's it's compounded when You are a less experienced entrepreneur trying to build something and say it's compounded with another Another quite common personality quirk for an entrepreneur is to chase the shiny It's the shiny object right to chase the new thing and to to try new things all the time But again, it's a great thing to have that curiosity Yeah, yeah, but that compounded with needing to get it done right away can lead to You physically burning yourself out and hurting yourself and then long-term um being less effective if if effective at all if doing anything at all But I think that's something that I have always struggled with and I have to be cognizant of Yeah, I absolutely agree. That's a very slippery slope And I've been there. I've had the like the 80 I've worked the 80-hour weeks at Still at university. I know what it's like and I I ended up with a burnout. I ended up with leukemia So I I know It can go down a very A very negative path and you don't want to get there. So you want to be really aware of what's going on so that you can You know you can Stop it from happening because there's a point where you can still Stop it and then you you have a point where you can't stop what you've started anymore Or you you can but it will take a long time to get back to where you were before it's just so much harder So yeah, let's talk about Digital marketing and space strategies. So what's working right what's working right now and what is not working when it comes to selling products and services online Sure, so the things that are not working um are blasting out automated campaigns to Hundreds of thousands of people at the spray and pray model of sales right this this is not a or you just Reach out to as many people as you can you the message is the same to everybody and you're just hoping that some person Accidentally buys your product So if that's your sales strategy. It's probably not going to work or it's not going to work very well Or you're just going to end up you know upsetting a lot of people in the process. So In terms of sales If you are going to be selling something I do believe that Sales has to be aligned with your marketing approach and how you're building out your own personal brand and everything like you're doing Claudian That's that's the way I believe you should build out your own brand so that it can Re-enforced sales and when you are doing sales A very simple we'll talk about marketing in a second, but a very simple framework to be successful at sales is first You identify the companies that you want to actually target So this is in more technical jargon ideal customer profile And then you target the person within the company that the persona via the you know, it could be like CMO or You know VP sales or Director of finance. It doesn't matter You figure out the person within the company that you want to target so the persona and then when you're actually going to reach out to them A very Simple outbound strategy. Of course you it depends on what product you're selling But usually you're going to email LinkedIn phone and you will use Something called the why you why now framework for the content that you actually put in your outreach And really it's not so complicated like name suggests the why you why now is explaining Why am I reaching out to you? Obviously if I'm telling if I'm answering that question in the email obviously you know You have like a you have like an actual Actual outbound sales email with a call to action But you're saying why am I reaching out to you right now? So why is this thing that I'm selling personalized to you What's the reason for me even emailing you need to figure that out and you have to do some research We have to figure that out that step one of personalizing your sales message and then step two is why now So why now why is there an event in the in the life cycle of the customer that warrants me Reaching out to them. Why does it make sense? What's relevant in your life that would make whatever I'm selling Helpful to you So the why you why now is just um It was it I can't remember who actually thought through this originally if I'm not mistaken There's some really great sales You know gurus like not not gurus in the bad sense like in like they're very smart and they're well-known names Um, I think John Barros is a great sales leader to follow I know he's a great sales leader to follow, but I think that was his framework if I'm not mistaken And if I am mistaken, I'm very sorry Whoever is not shot. There's also Jeff Hoffman who has a Uh, a great framework and he also could be responsible I'm blanking on who's actually responsible for building this framework, but it's quite simple right? It's very simple at its core These are the things that you want to answer in the email that you're sending out or in the LinkedIn message You're sending out or in the phone call You have to make sure that it's personalized relevant and timely as well There has to be a timely event in the customers business that makes it so that they would care about your product or your service that you're offering So that's a very quick and simple framework for Automatically being a better seller of your services now the second component of that Um, okay, it's great to just send emails and do whatever send messages on LinkedIn But let's also you know, it's focused on the marketing thing So the brand and you want to build up your brand and the way to market the way to market in 2021 in my opinion the most effective way is to become a media company is to Create content across as many social platforms as you can you need to have a framework in a process for Creating contents that you can do at scale Um, the framework that I personally use Um, I think you use it you do the same thing where you record one long form piece of content And in that podcast that we're having right now we're discussing things that you want to eventually turn into shorter pieces of content that you're going to push across all your social so you have that one long form piece And then you take that and you're breaking it and then you take that long form piece video goes on YouTube The the podcast now you have an audio goes to a podcast you can even take this you can transcribe it You can do show notes you turn it into a blog you break the video into small little clips or the audio into small little clips I can go across Facebook LinkedIn Twitter You know, you could do YouTube shorts if you break it into sub 30-second clips You could do like TikTok reels it's not chat spotlight Twitter stories All this all the small short form video thing So that all stems from that first piece of content that first long form piece of content This strategy again, if not new you'll see a lot of people talk about this But this is just the easiest way to Build out a content strategy that allows you to place your content everywhere and it also feeds into more It also is like we're talking about social media because you're pushing across all social but remember Even if you take this long form piece of content you now have a conversation between you know Claudia and Scott You write some show notes you it's an interview style you post that on your website Now you're actually feeding into your SEO strategy and you're driving traffic It's now you're posting more content on your website so In my opinion focus on being a media company focus on creating content and that's how you market yourself Effectively in in 20 in 2021 I'm trying to think of bad examples of marketing But I think a bad example of marketing is somebody who's just not doing that Because that's how that's that's how people get to know you right? That's how and it's tough because you have to show up all the time, but That's why you don't want to just Just push stuff out over social without any plan or any strategy or any process because you'll burn out You know, it's not because it's you're just you'll just burn out So you just have to have a process and this is probably the easiest process to follow because you don't have to create all the time for every platform Individually, you just create once distribute forever. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm doing So I I haven't really started my YouTube channel yet. Well, I've created one by I have started putting content out But I'm I'm using my my podcast. I'm putting the The transcription app as a blog post so for the SEO and everything then I use it on Pinterest snippets smart. Yeah, you can do video even video on Pinterest. So this goes out It goes out on Facebook on Instagram on LinkedIn. So it's just all repurposed content And yeah, that is I'll give you one more that you didn't you probably don't think of because I actually forgot this for myself And I have to do it more But we just spoke you asked me a whole bunch of questions. We spoke about a couple topics If you transcribe it, you can you can now see all the different time stamps and you can see when we spoke with different topics So now you can actually break it down into almost like Q and A format if you really wanted to but what you can do You can go to Korra and you can find people asking questions about topics that we discussed on the show And you take the stuff that we spoke about the answers that you got and then you go answer people on Korra And that's going to drive traffic from Korra to and people don't think about Korra Korra and Pinterest are two things that if you can get well If you can figure them out it can drive traffic the most people forget about them And I don't know I don't I try Pinterest and I still can't get it quite right But I know that I've used this strategy for Korra and I do get significant traffic from Korra So that's another one. Yeah, I have to try that it's some kind of Pinterest work really well And then something happened and I wasn't consistent anymore That's usually yeah, that's it that's You stop being consistent and you Everything goes downhill. So what marketing trends do you see emerging right now and what changes do you predict based on those trends? So the trends Somebody this was an answer to a care member who told me this on the podcast, but I thought it was very prolific and insightful um Find out what your nieces and nephews are looking at and find a way to market there Doesn't matter what your business is that's what you have to find a way to market on so it does like it It's going to be another platform. There'll be more platforms. There'll be more channels There'll be more things that you can do Go find out where the youngest generation is spending their time and find a way I don't care if you're selling shoes Cars food figure out a way to turn it into a content into a content format that plays nice with whatever platform or channel that is And if you do that and you understand that You'll always be a successful marketer because that's really what it is at the end of the day Like look at you have you had vine and now you have tiktok now you have reels and that like it's never like all these new channels are never going away now you have even more um Like niche channels like you have like bit clout which is like a new one which is like a brand new cryptocurrency social media platform That's like it's almost like Twitter like just find out what people that are in the know Who are younger who are are always always looking for new places to consume content find out where they're at Find a way to take your brand to that platform and that's how you'll win Okay, that's just the the mindset that you have to have as a CMO as an entrepreneur doesn't really matter You can be a CMO 4 to 100 company if you ignore that if you ignore that advice at simple advice you will eventually become You know, maybe you maybe you'll be too big to fail for many years But I you know, I think many people thought like blockbuster wouldn't fail or you know like people thought You know like like all these different like use cases of people and and examples in case these are people that were enormous gigantic companies that if for not always for marketing purposes They also there was also business issues that they they didn't really tackle But regardless it's the same mindset the same mindset of somebody that's going to you know go through a digital transformation in their business Is going to be the same mindset of somebody a CEO exactly of CMO is going to try and figure it a way to get Some content on TikTok. It's a mindset that you have to have and I think that's really important What about clubhouse? I saw that you are in clubhouse. Is that something that we should all pay more attention to or What do you think? So that's a good one. So I actually I'm I'm not great at clubhouse and some people are I think that I think that there was a time when clubhouse first started when you could use it to get massive exposure I think that there's What's happened with clubhouse? Is you when you first started you got massive organic reach and you could use it to build a great following and if you built a great following then Then you can still use it because now you have a following but the issue that I see with clubhouse and then some of the download numbers I think reflect this is it's such a time consuming platform that it is it is It's so time consuming that it inhibits you to be effective long-term Just because you have to have a job you have to have you have to care of your family you have to you like it's It's like I can I can start on Twitter today and I can bulk I can like batch schedule my posts and I can do that for two years with relatively little Disruption in my life, right? I can write a couple posts on a Sunday afternoon I can schedule and after like two years of tweeting I'm going to start developing audience But if I have to for like two years go on clubhouse with zero Presence and and spend an hour two hours through hours of every single day on there with no with no following That's very inhibitive and I think that that's why you see like downloads on club was a drop like 90 percent So I'm not saying that it's impossible. I personally haven't figured it out and I've tried to figure it out and I feel like it's just too I feel like there's better ways to build out an audience Again, we're talking about sustainability long-term, you know Managing your your life your family potentially your career I think you have to be cognizant and aware of that and I think that that has to drive your strategy and for me That's why I'm not spending as much time on clubhouse because there's other ways to have a higher ROI on the time invested for the time you I was wondering about that platform and you know the life launch method It's one of those strategies that has been around for years and then you work really well where people Ren all those challenges, but now you see challenges Everyone runs challenges. It doesn't work as well as before I was wondering maybe we could take that format like the life launch strategy and have it on Clubhouse something like that so kind of like yeah a Sort of master class or a series of master classes for people to See, I don't mind that idea, but the issue with clubhouse is I don't get anybody's email It's less it's less than like I can't I can't just I can't even message somebody I don't think yeah, you can't you can't message somebody on the platform. So like so that's you know The you know, you never build a what's what's the saying you never build like a Whatever the castle and someone else's whatever Whatever the saying is and like that's all writing an issue with many social media platforms because people get the platform Or they get their account hacked or variety of reasons they lose their audience right look at the the most prolific example would be Donald Trump Right, that's the that's the that's the epitome of losing an audience, but That happens to a lot of people for a variety of reasons not not always the not always because they get the platform to abandon They get their account whatever, but that's why I always bring it back to you know, you have to control your You have to build a community that you can control not control the interaction build community you can control So you have to that's why I lead people back to signing up for newsletter because then it's an email that I have I can directly communicate And I think that that's something to be said and that's why you know, do I want to invest do I want to invest That much time in building like there has to be an ROI right like so that means that if I'm going to be on clubhouse I'm going to be on clubhouse and do a live launch on clubhouse that means that the ROI on investing in clubhouse my time on clubhouse has to have enough organic reach that it's eventually going to Lead back to all my other social assets or my email list that I can build that community and use it in five years from now Whenever I want to do something with it, but if it doesn't have it if it doesn't have that organic reach the clubhouse uses its utility It doesn't make any sense anymore And that's That's what I like Twitter spaces is the same thing as clubhouse, but then at least with Twitter spaces I have the ability to build a Twitter community Because I already have Twitter and I can DM people anytime and then hopefully you know, I can I get a I get a I get a huge organic reach on Twitter Like like millions of impressions on Twitter and then Twitter is actually my number one Number one refer for my email list Surprisingly enough even though it's not my biggest following if my number one refer for my email list my newsletter And I use my email list for my newsletter right now, but I mean like if you have a if you have a strong email list I know people that have such a great email list and I don't sell courses right now But I don't be able to do sell courses and I remember I spoke to one guy who had a great email list And he said Scott our email list was so good that if we launched a course I could guarantee that in 24 hours I'd make a hundred thousand dollars Because every time I send an email that was the average amount of people that would buy whatever I put out And it's just like it's now it's like you know that obviously that's That's an incredible figure to have that That guaranteed hundred K every time like we're talking millions of email. Obviously it's not like a I think for somebody just starting out to expect But that's the power of having an email list and you can't tell me that um I've never seen something with a clubhouse room that if they launch something in a clubhouse room They're gonna get a hundred thousand dollars in sales from that clubhouse room because you can't even properly communicate that you can't in What are you in a in a in a audio format? Are you gonna say like go to www.scotscores.com and you're expecting that many people to convert from a from you telling them that Some will but I don't think it's the the most efficient or effective way So and I feel like now I'm just hating on Which is not good Because I know that some people really really spend a lot of time on it But I just haven't seen it doesn't seem practical to me I'm so glad you said that because I'm on clamp house, but I haven't really spent time on I'm trying to figure it out So I'm glad I talked to you I don't want to dissuade people I want people to experiment and explore and I've also I would also love to spend but again It's time right so I didn't I didn't build my podcast audience. I didn't build my newsletter I didn't build most of my following which is it's growing every single day by spending any time on clubhouse So in my opinion like do you think that I would have achieved 5% Accelerated growth by spending more time maybe but maybe not and I'm happy with the progress that I'm making right now So as for and especially you're talking you have entrepreneurs on the show that are considering building their own thing on the side Which I always advocate for don't quit your job start to build something Take it slow. You don't have to quit day one with no capital no backup and just start a business Like if we're talking about that work-life balance if you want to have a full-time job and start something You get very very aware of your time It's very important. Yeah Now maybe you can expand a little bit on that marketing topic I know a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with lead generation and for many It's the least enjoyable part of running the business So what do you mind cheering out your current favorite lead-gen strategy with our audience? Was it the outbound send email that you talked about it was it's a bit of that That's what I use for like my business. That's what I use for That's that's literally what I use for what I like when I'm selling software or anything really but obviously I'm in software so I would say An unexpected lead-gen tool would be Twitter or LinkedIn Because again if you build up enough following and you and you speak about what you do and you make it clear What you do for a living and what you sell or what you want to sell You will have people Reaching out to you and asking for that and even if you don't make it clear you I still have like because I just I don't sell anything But people come to me and say hey, can you you know do some marketing consulting? He's in sales consulting. Can you help me with this that or the other because it's all your post Um, so you know build it and they will come kind of but not you know all seriousness and but also at the same time So that's why I always say Be a media company because if you be a media company focus on creating content around What you do for a living and if what you do for a living is coaching your consulting or you have a course If you want to have a course like whatever it is if you constantly talk about that On social not talk about it as in sell it but talk about topics that are adjacent to what you do And make sure those topics are helpful and they're answering questions about people that could potentially be customers Would be asking about that particular topic or industry or whatnot And if that's your content strategy then people see that you do have something Then they'll be reaching out to you to buy it because they they'll see you as the as the subject matter expert in this particular field So I would say for lead gen that's probably the easiest form of lead gen because you don't have to Sell you are selling you're selling every single day But you're not selling in traditional sense where you're reaching out and you're you know cold calling people and whatnot So if you build a great social presence and you have a product and you speak about content on your social that is in line with that product That will be lead gen and then secondly for a more pure outbound approach. Yes I use like I know so you know in terms of tools Apollo.io is a great email outbound tool that lets you run sequences Um Having that framework to understand what to put in the emails So that they're personalized and they're not spammy is important too for outbound um In terms of like an outbound campaign in a more traditional business to business context like if you had for example an inside sales rep uh You know That is shows that you have to reach out to somebody between seven to fifteen times across various channels before they respond to you This is we're talking more like traditional large enterprise business sales but um You can you can bring that down. So like right now one of my sales reps will probably reach out to A VP selling software. They're selling a software product. They'll still reach out a few times via email linked in and phone Those will be the three channels that they're going to be reaching out and there's you know you set up a cadence for You know day one send an email day two linked in a three give them a phone call you have a voicemail That's a very Formalized sales process, but you can use that process and and bring it down to whatever you're trying to sell So if you don't have an audience day one Sales a sale like sales is tough like there's no there's no way around it But at least if you understand how to position and and the content that you should put into the messaging that you send out into the world to the people that want to buy your product It will be a little bit It will be a little bit more appreciated And it won't be as it won't be as rough. That's the best way to put it And then you figure out like maybe I don't feel comfortable calling that's fine So it's no problem know that know that you will be slightly less effective, but you can still Email and LinkedIn people because you don't feel like co-calling them You don't have time whatever you can email LinkedIn people and that will bring you some leads and that's That's really you know That's not a magic secret sales formula, but if you are at least An empathetic seller and like I said you make sure that it isn't just garbage that you're sending out to people It will bring you some results And if you can master that down Then then you can sort of start to grow the side hustle a little bit a little bit quicker And you'll notice results immediately It's not it's not like a very difficult thing if you have a good product and have a good product Of course, that that is the key to everything Have a good product that's that you know, I didn't even mention that but if you don't have a good product Doesn't matter how much you market or sell people will just discover the bad product quicker So have a good product that's that's the number one most important thing So have a good product content marketing strategy and personalized social selling Yes, that sounds yes nailed it. Yeah, nice you just we didn't even have to do this podcast You can just done three bullet points typing in a post and be like, Scott, this is what you mean, right? I'm like, yes, yeah We've talked about some social media platforms and each and strategy. Let's talk about sales So sales is another thing that that's so many people struggle with now you have worked with a lot of the big names in the industry But I guess you've also had sales calls with say beginners or intermediate stage entrepreneurs, right? So you have seen it all and you have heard it all now We talked on mindset differences for a moment So a business coach a business coach friend of mine Recently posted a funny meme about this topic and I'd love to hear your experiences with this So here's the main so she said A $500 client says I just feel as though with this investment I'm about to make in you that we should understand how our lives are about to change and I need results And I need you to bring them and I'm trusting you with our livelihood and our lives Whereas the 5,000 50,000 dollar client says Says our money sent things. Is that your experience to that is a hundred percent my experience that is so accurate um The the the $50,000 client is the Maybe a slight bit more work, but you know anybody who sold anything will realize the $50,000 client is not much more work than the $500 client But they're way less headache And this is why it comes down to that first point that I said about If you're going to sell or market anything Those two pieces the ideal customer profile And the buyer persona the ideal customer profile will drive most of your interactions And when I say ideal customer profile I didn't really go into targeting and what I mean by targeting is your your so you have to decide which businesses you want to sell to One of the one of the variables That you choose is how much revenue do they have how many employees do they have Um how long have they been around what industries are they in These are the variables that make up that profile you're making a profile on a company If you don't have a profile and you just send it out to everybody then you'll get small you'll get big But if you have that profile the guides all of your Sales efforts your sales outreach You won't run into customers you don't want to sell to And I would say that's actually um an under discussed point about sales for people that aren't in if you're in sales You speak with us a lot, but if you aren't in sales You may not realize how important it is to Qualify out to to get rid of people that aren't Proper customers like don't chase 500 because you got to think of the long-term implications of running with a 500 dollar client if you're a Coach if you're whatever if you if there if you have to be involved in the deliverables of a service And and you have to physically give up hours To be the one who's on site or to be on zoom calls or whatever That time invested is time taken away from potential other clients So that's why it's important to identify who you want to reach out to but also to get rid of people that aren't the right fit and you That's a big thing that that a lot of entrepreneurs fall into that trap because they chest they chase money Which is fine And that's also why you don't want to quit your jobs. You don't have to chase money So you can say no to customers that aren't the right fits you can focus on you can focus on customers There's either $50,000 that have a logo people recognize that won't give you headache that will be a great referral That people will look at that brand when you're done that job and they'll be like wow this person is legit They just closed x fortune 500 company You're not going to get all those benefits if you don't have a job and you need to make rent or you need to You know god forbid put food on the table and you are running out of money and you're taking all these small little $500 clients that are clogging up all your all your all your spare time So that that is so accurate that is i've seen that mean before actually but it's it's 100% It's true right? Yeah, it is Do you think it's easier like in general it's easier to sell to establish entrepreneurs or to newbies Or would you say depends more on the personality than on the business stage Sell so sorry, so I'm selling to you're saying an established entrepreneur Yeah, so is it easier to sell to one of those established entrepreneurs or to a newbie Someone who's just starting out or would you say it depends more on their personalities than on their business stage I don't think the business stage matters No, I think it's more no because if you think about it the only reason I say that well it depends on what you're selling Of course, but I mean if If you're selling so you if you're selling to a person Well, no, I don't think it matters because somebody who's starting a business what if they what if they have What if they have a net worth of a hundred million dollars and they're starting a new business Well, that business is new, but they have they have the capital to invest right? But if you're selling to somebody who again with their job to go start their business and they can barely make rent Well, that's not going to be a good customer So I think that I I think there's more nuance to it than then just whether or not they're new or they're They're more experienced now. I guess somebody who has a lot of money to spend technically. They would be more experienced I think you just have to be clear about I think you have to be clear about what you're offering I think you have to be clear about the customer expectations as well the deliverables what it is Say you have somebody who's more experienced and they can understand what they're purchasing Well, that's That's akin to selling to the person who spends $50,000 right? You're selling to somebody who knows what they're getting And somebody who knows what they're getting is going to be more confident and probably be able to spend more on whatever product or service You're selling anyways and understand the deliverables I would say yeah, I would say less about experience and more about Personality I don't say personality because not really personality, but maybe Kind of think how that's a good question actually It's a really good question. What I see sometimes is that Beginners I mean not always but they tend to be more price shoppers and more experienced people tend to be more value shoppers How do you vet that you're not going to say like oh how long have you been in business? You can't you can't tell until you talk to them. So it's hard to But maybe that brings us back to qualifying out So maybe that's why you do a discovery call and then you qualify it when you realize that they're price shopping and they say Well, if I want to work with you, I need to have x amount of Deliverables. I need to I need to do this and and it's a heart. It's a unreasonable thing that they're asking for in terms of what they expect from working with you Then that's when I would qualify out So I think it's less I think it's less actually This is my final answer on this one. I think I think it's less about who you're working with and more about your ability to figure out And ask the right questions and then to qualify out or to say they're a good client I think it's on you to figure that out not on them probably Yeah, I think that's probably the most I think that's probably the best advice I can give because if you ask the right questions And you have a confidence to qualify people or qualify say they're the right fit or not Then I think that's I think that's probably the best way to work with a A group or a customer group that you may not have the ability to really investigate Because when you're assigned to business you really can find out when they were founded You can find out how many employees they have you can go on LinkedIn You can even if it's a big enough entrepreneur and they have a team you can go on LinkedIn And you always do your research before you do the call anyway. So you should have a good idea. You can also see like You know, what does our website look like? What type of you know like do they do they have a team behind them? What have they done in the past a quick google search have they been functioning in this space for a while now I think you can fairly you can tell pretty quickly who's legit and who's not legit is in like they're They're running a legitimate business, but who has had success who's had success and who has some sort of longevity behind what they're doing Um because even by going to somebody's website even if they have a website You know, if they if they have had success, they're gonna have something up there in the world you can go check out So I think like research understanding what to ask while finding out those are all the things that drive Uh and help you sell better and not sell is in like clothes when I say sell I mean like just like Cause you less stress in when you actually close the deal Because you can close the wrong people and then it's helpful. It's just horrible Especially coach you don't want those people Yeah, they are really just headache. So I totally agree Well think about it like a trainer like like if I'm a gym trainer like I want if I'm gonna if I'm gonna get somebody I'm gonna work with somebody Like like I want I want them to be in the right mindset. I want them to commit. I want them to You know, not if I'm gonna put somebody on a on a meal plan or on a workout regime I want them to stick to it. I don't want them and if they're not gonna stick to it then it looks bad on me It looks bad on me, you know what I mean if they're if they're on if they're on Instagram saying like oh, you know Scott couldn't you know help me lose weight or Scott couldn't you know You know Increase my my you know one rm or my bench or whatever or my spot and then It's because they don't go to the gym. It's because they eat whatever they want they drink all weekend and That looks bad on me as a personal trainer. So obviously some some things are more visible than others But I mean everything comes back. So I think you have to be careful of your own brand when you when you close clients And I think I don't think people think about that But You close the right client it can accelerate your business exponentially like quite quickly And also you want you wanted to be a fun experience for everyone, right? It's it's not for them if they don't get the result It's not fun for you if you have to drag them all the time and they just do it in the work So it's not a good experience for either one and I want to make sure that it's a good experience for both of us when we work together So I think it's really important and it's something that People don't often talk about about this process of qualifying people and also to be picky about who you work with and not just say okay I can close this client and I will do it just because I can Mm-hmm, but to really be Be aware of who you want to work with That's why it's so important to set yourself up in a position so you can be picky true Last but not least, where can our listeners find you online if they would like to connect with you more Well, first of all, thank you for the thank you for the conversation. That was a lot of fun That was a lot of fun. I hope I hope everybody got some value out of that um If uh if they want to connect with me I have a I have a website. So scottie clary.com I also have a website for the podcast Success story podcast.com or I was fortunate enough to get all the social At scottie clary So you can just you can go anywhere and find me there That's easy Awesome. Thank you so much God for sharing all those tips and insights I really appreciated and I'm sure our listeners will appreciate it too My pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you Thanks again. Take care and talk soon. Bye You