Sarah Jakes Roberts - Best-Selling Author & Speaker | Stop Settling For “Safe”

Success is always moving and success is obedience definition of success thinking that once I achieved it then I would be powerful. When our ideas have to exist in the larger context of the world we figure out how much we don't know ignorance is not this qualification it's just an opportunity for you to learn. A lot of times fear just becomes normalized I lived according to the truth of my values because if we learn each step of the way then the goal is not sustainability it's just another lesson. Success is how many lessons we can pile one to this journey that make us better for the next step. Pursuing success without a love of self will always be very dangerous before you attempt to scale yourself that you've got to find a way to really love yourself. Welcome to Success Story. I'm your host Scott Clary. The Success Story podcast is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network. Very exciting news. HubSpots inbound converts is back which means you got to clear your schedules. Mark your calendars, get the sitter, three jam pack days from September 18th through the 20th live and boss and you're going to hear inspirational narratives, candid interviews on the highs and lows of incredibly notable figures, business owners, politicians, you're going to learn from successful entrepreneurs like Ryan Reynolds and Serena Williams on how they reinvented themselves and their businesses to achieve massive success. They're going to gain valuable insights from industry leaders, visionaries on effective strategies for personal and professional growth and there's so much more and on top of all that I'm speaking again this is my third inbound so I'll be doing a segment. So if you want to hear from Ryan Reynolds, Serena Williams or you want to hear from me go to inbound.com, go see the lineup and grab your ticket today. I'll see you in Boston. Serena, I'm super excited for this. It's going to be a lot of fun. There are two ideas that you talk about. We're going to jump right into it and I love these two ideas and I want to get a little bit more context about what these ideas are. So there's two ideas incubating hope and that success is obedience and I love these so can you go just a little bit deeper and then we're going to talk about everything about owning your power about sort of the journey that you've gone through but these two ideas just to kick it off. Okay well I mean that could take up the whole episode. I know it could. But incubating hope I think that in a world where we have to be realistic about the different obstacles connected with us pursuing whatever our goal is that it can be very challenging to not be discouraged before we even begin because we just recognize that the road ahead of us can be very challenging when we choose first to incubate hope connected with our idea what we're saying to ourselves is I'm not expecting for it to be easy and I'm not expecting that it's just going to come without me having to break a split or maybe question myself but what I am saying is that not only am I hopeful about this idea I'm hopeful about what this idea will translate into for the world and I think we have to spend just as much time fine tuning our plans our strategies and our ideas as we do the hope connected to it I don't know if you know people like I do where they start off the idea and then they get a few knows and now they don't believe in it anymore and they've given up one at all together I think a lot of that has to do with the reality that we didn't incubate an hope to really make sure that the idea withstands some of the struggles that are just guaranteed to come when we're launching something into the world which I think is a beautiful segue into success being about obedience if you are in an industry or a field where you are often engaged by your metrics or your outcomes we can postpone success we can say it'll be successful when it reaches this specific marker and then what we learn is that you get to that marker and then they're like you know what would have really been successful if it would have done it on the first week or if it would have done it before you got there and success is always moving and so I like to measure the reality that I do have goals that I want to hit with the knowing that I have that me even being in this position me even having the courage to start it the courage to step into it is obedience and success is obedience that I didn't discredit myself that I didn't talk myself out of pricing go in pricing play the fact that I even moved in the direction of where I thought I was being called or where I felt my gift or talent could take me was success within itself it's a success that a lot of people don't get to experience because they are so afraid to move into the direction of what they feel will bring them fulfillment and so I try to balance the reality that I'm already living further than I could have ever imagined with also the knowledge that I want to go further I love that you're touching on things that are so important to me because you work with tons of people I work a lot with entrepreneurs and I don't know if you see this I'm sure you do we're in this culture of we're figuring out which thought leader to listen to and which tactic to apply but building a business and building anything worth building is so much more than just repeat application tactics because our mind gives out so much earlier than when we actually think we've made it and I feel like this is the biggest piece it's missing in what we see online about what quote-unquote success and entrepreneurship is it is the ability to fall back on your wins and understand when you won and sort of internalize that and allow the profile you forward but also understanding that success is a journey not a finish line you know so we're going to talk about a lot of stuff but let's just briefly touch on the fact that the book you just wrote power moves I want to understand out of all the different topics because I've listened now at this point before we do this show I listen to all the podcasts you've been on I watch a whole bunch of the stuff you put out so you talk on a lot of different self-development self-help mindset even tactical topics that sort of takes people from where they are to where they want to go so I always love this when you put out a book there's a reason why you put out this particular book on this particular topic that of all the different topics why was power moves so important to you what's the concept the concept of power moves came to me really as I began to see in my life moving to this trajectory of partnership with other people and as I was partnering with other people whether it was my publisher to write a book or a logistics team for my tours everyone had their own definition of what success was one to look like and I started pursuing their definition of success thinking that once I achieved it then then I would be powerful then I would come home and I'd have nothing left to give my family and I thought well this doesn't feel powerful and I achieved their success but now I feel empty on the inside and I really felt like through my own discovery my own journey and prayer meditations that there was this real need for individuals to be able to define what power looks like for themselves before it is hijacked by other people's expectations and other people's definitions and in going on this journey of trying to define what power looks like for myself I learned that power was fluid that what I thought made me powerful as an author was different than what makes me powerful as a mother and what makes me powerful as a mother different than what makes me powerful as a partner and it started I started realizing that I saw power as a destination the same way people see success not recognizing that power really is a flow and our ability to say you know what what made me powerful here is changing as I'm growing as I've got more experience I no longer feel like power has this same definition and so I wanted to write a book that helped me embrace the fluidity of what power looks like for me as a person who wears many hats but also was a roadmap for other people to define what power looks like for them as they balanced the many hats that they wear and so I have felt a real sense of liberation and embracing the fluidity of power even when that means that power for me is rest today tomorrow it might be writing a book the day after that it may be going on tour to see each of those things as necessary components of power has allowed me a freedom that I think I was being restricted from when I thought it was just one specific expression so I think what you're experiencing is super common super normal too um why do people sort of latch on to someone else's definition of power like when we go into something we feel like we got it all figured out but then I mean I'm just speaking of personal experience I always get rattled and then all of a sudden I have a peer a spouse a mentor and then I feel myself almost like trying to validate myself and trying to validate what I'm doing the second it doesn't work out 100% with all these external factors like what happens what's happening there why do we always fall into this rut because you're super powerful you speak on stage or front of thousands of people if it can happen to you because someone's listening they're like shit well like she she kills it and she still fell into this trap so how do I avoid it well I mean I think we want to do well and our ideas are really good ideas when they are only within ourselves and maybe the few friendships or relationships that we value when our ideas have to exist in the larger context of the world we figure out how much we don't know and when you start to figure out how much you don't know it can begin to make you feel inadequate and when you feel inadequate it is difficult to be motivated to manifest a vision that you no longer feel has enough support has enough exposure to be effective in the world and so we have to really go back to that incubating hole where we realize that part of the reason why I don't see anyone doing this the way that I feel like it can be done is because I have this unique perspective that's unique offering and the other thing is that I also need to figure out what failed in the past so that I can sharpen the gift or the idea that I want to bring into the world and there's a tension that exists within that there's a losing of yourself and a reclaiming of yourself that must take place in order for you to get to a spot where you really are able to put your roots down but I think that most people cannot underestimate how much they don't know about the direction they're moving towards but also how ignorance is not this qualification it's just an opportunity for you to learn you know when you look at your own journey you've mentioned before that like all of our past traumas and societal expectations they don't define us but ultimately a lot of that does impact us for everyone going through life day to day it's hard to just ignore it and you've even said like you have allowed in your past shame to dictate most of your decisions so why not try faith now this is not a religious podcast by any means and I want to I want to drop parallel between your journey and someone out there is like okay great she found God she found faith and that allowed her but I want you to explain that to somebody who's not religious I want you to explain to somebody what faith means so that they don't misinterpret it and they don't misunderstand what your message is because I think it is very important doesn't matter if you believe in God or anyways but you have to believe in something bigger than yourself but how does somebody who doesn't believe in God to the same degree as you apply that um that's so part of the reason why I got to that space is that like I had tried everything so I don't even know that I was like looking for faith as much as I was like listening we did this we did this like why not try and I will say it wasn't just let me try religion like let me try to be a good Christian for me it was let me tap into this belief that my life is not random that everyone has an opportunity to add light and value and love into the world regardless of what they've gone through it was that belief that I wanted to hang going to that no matter what I'd gone through in my past that they could somehow work together and still turn out to good so I really wanted to hang going to the belief of my faith not necessarily checking the boxes of religion and in trying to trying to believe I mean it wasn't an attempt it wasn't something I was sure of I started asking myself the type of questions like well if you believe that your life so has value if you believe that no matter what you've gone through you can still add something to this world what would you provide what would you offer and don't compare it to what's already out there literally look at your own life your own resources what would you say and for me it really started off like I would want every teen mom every girl who's ever done something that made other people frown at her to know that she's still lovable that she still allowed to dream that she still has access to hope regardless of how much harm she has experienced that's what I wanted to put into the world and so I tried it on smaller scale scales and then it grew and it got bigger and the more that I got exposed to more people the more I wanted to tell them and I think I'm constantly having to ask my question myself that question if you believe that your life is not random if you believe that you have a limited time to release something that could possibly make someone's life better what would you want to offer and I asked myself that question whether I'm speaking in a room full of thousands or I'm about to have a one-on-one zoom with someone who just DMed me randomly what can I offer in this moment that can make someone's life better to me that was stepping into not just having faith but being a lifeline of faith for another person so I love that and I guess that's ultimately like just to summarize what like that power move is it's a lot of understanding what your your own power is and and and recognizing that man and I will say recognizing the power of fear and the power of shame and how it can limit us from believing that we have a good power to offer to the world I think for me and at least my family my experiences my culture a lot of times fear just becomes normalized and shame just becomes normalized in the way that our families have always done things become so normalized that we don't see them as powerful barriers of entry that keep us from living limitless lives and when we see that like the power of shame the power of fear the power of my past has enough power to keep me from thinking that I've got something to offer to the world then I don't accurately wage war against those things with a higher belief with a better thought with actions that are in direct competition to what those thoughts would have me to believe and so I do think it is believing that you have a power to offer the world and also recognizing that there is a real resistance to that power being released so when because I'm sure that a lot of this stuff is just like generational trauma like what you're talking about right now is just normalize just the way it's always been done it's like this is how much money my family is always made that takes a lot to disrupt that cycle takes a lot for you to push back so okay let's figure out a playbook for somebody that doesn't matter it could be somebody whose parents made you know 50 grand a year parents made 200 grand a year doesn't really matter the point is so you're trying to break out of this cycle so generation generation generation kind of this is the status quo what is the action item the step that you can take that starts to that flywheel that pushes you in the right direction okay so I will take it even deeper because I think that we are experiencing a generational shift in the ways that we engage with technology and the way that we even engage with business I think that we're literally watching the world change from the way that things have always been done into a new way being I look at this generation of millennials and now zers that are no longer willing to work the way that some boomers did where their families were the casualties to pursuing the pension or their retirement where they really are choosing I would rather live in a different type of life silence to have my family and values and mental health then pursue this corner office that may result in me not having the family I desire so I think we're experiencing a shift I would say to that person who has never seen it done but feels within themselves that it should change even if they don't believe that they're the ones that should change it to begin to think about like what changes would you implement don't get bogged down by the details don't get caught in the logistics it's like let's really dream what do we want to see it look like what would we want to see done differently in our family what type of resources do we want to see available because until we can really give that a vision then we can't really even attract the level of thinking the level of creativity the level of innovation required to lay hold of that vision it's one thing to want things to change it's another thing to let your mind roll free you roam free rather with the innovation required to make it happen and so I would say take the limits off of your mind to take the limits off of those parameters and to begin dreaming about what you want to see happen and then what would it take for you to get from where you are to what you see once again don't think about the money that you would need the time that you need the people that you would need just really begin to lay out this plan because I think what's going to happen when you begin to lay that plan out is that you will begin to see opportunities differently you will see how small opportunities can lead to bigger moments you will begin to hear it echoed in other people's stories and what you see as a dream will not be as unreachable because you've got a vision and you begin to see it happen in other people's lives I love this you know you mentioned a really good point the way we work the way we want to work what we value is changing do you see issue with that do you think that maybe so two two ends of the spectrum the traditional way it's always been done maybe that creates more wealth immediately I don't know it doesn't always have to if you find a way to architect wealth in different ways but maybe creates more wealth it gives you more options and maybe if you are able to think differently and you have a grade nine to five it allows you the stability to build a business that can really take it to the next level on the other end of the spectrum you have somebody who is not wanting to work in an office is wanting to travel is wanting to do maybe a more like like no mad lifestyle and maybe that allows for more creativity to think differently and to and to approach life differently so I'm curious when you speak to so many people and people come to you for advice is the advice to pursue something that feels good and is more invoked or is it to push back and to do the hard work and to sort of put in the wraps so that you're you're used to the work required to take yourself to the next level like when you talk to young people which way do you point them well hey you actually do I think there's something I think results may vary you know at the end of yeah those prescription drug commercials they're like results may vary with like the 20,000 side effects and the whole bunch of different out yeah I don't think we're going to know how well this path turns out for anyone for probably 30 40 50 years when they're towards the end of their lives thing what they wish they would have done done differently or what they feel they've done well I think that my goal is to help people lay hold of a vision of their spiritual mental emotional financial health that is a reflection of what builds authentic for themselves I don't know that my goal is to point them in any specific direction as much as it is to create a space where they have time to be authentic where they're no longer living under other people's pressures other people's experiences so that they can determine what authenticity looks like for them so that they can create a plan that allows them to define what success looks like for themselves so that no matter what happens 40 50 years down the road maybe they had generational has gone to another level or maybe they have generational generational health and emotional wellness that happen in a way that they've never seen before that they will be able to say I lived according to the truth of my values and sometimes I had to stretch and sometimes I had to disappoint some people and sometimes I had to remodify those plans but I lived according to my conviction and self I can get people to a space of authenticity I think that conviction can sell them what path to take when you you know you mentioned that you sort of help people across financial mental spiritual and even physical to a degree I'm curious if you see one of those buckets hurting people the most saying 2024 like which one of those buckets is not full oh it depends a lot I mean there's I am speaking to I'm merely people of color who have had disproportionate experiences in professionalism in financial spaces and so I think that most of the time when I speak to them they're reeling from the effects of feeling disqualified from all before they even get into them but then when I speak to other spaces where maybe they aren't primarily people of color but I'm marvel at what they have gone through and the buckets that they see is empty I think if there is anything that I feel remedies all of it no matter which bucket is empty I think that from a place emotional and spiritual wellness and fullness that we're able to better show up in those empty spaces and to get them filled in ways that are healthy for ourselves which is why I think if I had to choose any bucket to pour into I would love to pour into all of them but absolutely that if I can get your core well that that can overflow into those other spaces there's a quote that I love that sort of speaks into stepping into your power quote is it is our light not our darkness the most frightens us and that's Marian Williamson and I'm curious if you know the reason why we understand that there's all these things that stop us from believing in ourselves and there's all these generationals and traumas and and shame and doubt but say we listen to this podcast people listen to this podcast and they're gonna say yeah I get it like I get it and then fast forward a year they're still not gonna do anything like you're just not gonna do shit they're not gonna try and fix anything even though they know that there's a problem even though they know that they're not being their best self or putting their best self towards their work or their family or the world why are we so scared of succeeding my hypothesis is that we are afraid of success because we are not sure if we can sustain it I think that if we could do it once that would be something but it would be disappointing to hit it once and never be able to do it again so it's easier to not go for it at all what if I can't sustain it like what if I can start and I see this in relationships too like what if I can get the relationship but then I'm not a good partner and I'm too selfish on this and I think the idea of sustaining what we start keeps us from initiating it to begin with I would say to that person that with each attempt we become better at sustainability that we learn what tires us out we learn how to communicate better we learn what plans we need to have in place I would think less about sustaining where we start and more about learning each step of the way because if we learn each step of the way then the goal is not sustainability it's just another lesson and I think success is how many lessons we can pile onto this journey that make us better for the next step you know there's so many so you mentioned that you see this a lot with the relationships that I actually love relationships and looking at relationships and unpacking relationships because I think there's actually a lot of little micro tests you can do in a relationship that can translate into your career and your business like I was on a podcast this morning talking to somebody about radical candor and just and what was important for me in a partner and the ability to be open and communicate was so so important but it's so obvious that translates into business and the building teams and whatnot so when you think about giving people micro wins and maybe talking you can talk about your own experience because I want you to feel comfortable talking about whatever you feel comfortable talking about with your own relationship in your own house but what were things that you did maybe in your own relationship that proved that you could own your power in your relationship better your relationship that you could now sort of replicate out in the world and business and some of the lessons you teach because I think that like listen business is not forgiving relationships are also not that forgiving sometimes but I mean at least we get a shot you know like right after this I can go test something out and see if I'm being a better person a better boyfriend husband partner in the next five minutes where sometimes in business you can only see it over a period of time. It's so funny you say that because my husband has a business philosophy where he's like I will never get in partnership with someone who cheats on their wife because like if you cannot maintain your promise and covenant to this person I don't say in a chance so I do think there is a lot of connection between the ways that we show up in relationship I will say that my husband's probably similar to you and that he really likes a radical candor like he's like just give it to me straight no matter what it is just tell it to me I think within myself I process my thoughts internally when I'm ready to talk about it I will share it and I think for a lot of the beginning part of our marriage it made my husband kind of like constantly pull at me to try and figure out what it was that I was trying or not saying I think that that really helped me in business though because he forced me to stand by in us communicating he forced me to really open up about what I was feeling how my perspective may have been different from his and to really stand by my perspective in a way forced him to see things my way and I think that this has been helpful for me in business because I've done a lot of conversing with people who had more experience and more knowledge in a certain field than I do but I know my audience and I know that my idea has mirrored in value and sometimes I don't always feel like I am communicating those ideas in a way that they can understand and in those moments it can be easy for me to abandon my idea and just go with the flow or to back down altogether but because I had this beautiful space to kind of sharpen my communication skills I've been willing to you know stay in tentos down on some ideas that I think have ultimately been very helpful once I was able to get my partner to understand the value of the audience or the idea that I was bringing to the table but I had to learn to really speak up in that way through my husband's communication preferences I just want to take a second and thank the HubSpot podcast network for sponsoring the show's success story even part of their network for the past three years now if you're a podcast fan you have to check out some of the other incredible podcasts in the HubSpot podcast network like my first million hosted by Sam Parr and Sean Perry they feature famous guests like Alex Ramozi Sophia Emma Russo Hassan Minhaj sharing their secrets on how they made their first million and how to apply their learnings to capitalize on today's business trends and opportunities listen to my first million wherever you get your podcasts I love that though because within this little in this little like microcosm example peachy dish of testing stuff out you learn how to own your power but you also understand power dynamics and maybe just help me understand or help I mean teach me but also teach the audience too when you own your power it does not mean asserting absolute power over other people that is not owning your power and I think that that is very important so I don't want somebody to listen to this and then try and own their power and turn it to an asshole and that's not good and don't send us any letters we did not anybody up and doing that yeah so okay so owning your power I think you have to start to understand if you own your power like you mentioned with your husband and when you get into business business conversations is very different than asserting dominance in every situation so step two after owning your power talk about power dynamics talk about understanding how to engage throughout you you know throughout your day throughout life throughout business okay I will give you a great example because my husband now we've moved to Dallas my father has been leading this community in organization for over 20 plus years but he's that is these and where he's considering what transition and succession look like for him and so we're blending ideas we've got two different perspectives from two different generations two different definitions of what success looks like and definitions of what power looks like and so I will tell you that I believe in the power of what I bring to the table I believe that I understand what's important to this generation I believe that I understand what detracts them from coming into Romans rooms and what attracts them when you are owning your power in a space where you are navigating power dynamics you have to understand the power that the other person brings to the table not just that they are a decision maker but maybe they have proven experience in a field that they don't even understand is changing yet because I think we see this a lot in generational shifts where they don't even realize that like people aren't doing that anymore people don't talk that way anymore people don't navigate rooms in this way anymore and so they're married to a concept that once had power that doesn't have power anymore if you are going to blend power dynamics you have to honor the power that the other person possesses and by honoring it it means that you can't come in there and just be like this is dumb this is nobody does it's all this antiquated because you have robbed yourself of an alliance you need in order to successfully transition from one way of doing things to another way of doing things or a blended way of doing things when you say something negative about a person's expression or a way that things have been done you automatically lose out on an ally that you need so in navigating power dynamics you have to honor the power that the other person possesses so that they are more willing to incorporate your perspective your views into how things can become better when I see younger generations working with older generations I know that they're very zealous and they want to get their ideas out and they want to tell them all of all of the ways that they can change things but I think that they end up doing that at the detriment of making the other person feel old antiquated and no longer useful and that shuts them down and so in order to really build a bridge that is worthy of two generations crossing you have to honor what the other person brings to the table and I think that's in a relationship and in business because my husband he's more of a macro thinker I'm more of a micro thinker and so I need his macro perspective of things but he needs me to be micro because I'm going to execute it and get it done and so we have to honor the power that the other person possesses at amazing what when you go into when you go into a relationship or a business engagement because with your husband you know how he works and you know what he brings to the table when you're going into a conversation with somebody new and you know you're doing a negotiation or you're trying to figure out how to do a deal together how do you going to that that discussion figure out how that person operates quickly so that you can figure out whether or not you should bring more or sort of take a step back I'm constantly asking questions when we walk into potential business partnerships I think that we often oversell ourselves and we don't hear enough from the other person and if you're not sure about what you bring to the table you can oversell yourself trying to prove that you deserve to be in the room and then miss out on the opportunity to fully understand who it is that you're sitting across from and so generally when we're talking about partnership it's because we have something that the other person could benefit from and they have something that we could benefit from and so understanding how they have been able to provide value to previous clients or partners to understand just from the to the extent that they're able to share what it is that they feel like they can offer to you to ask them questions about where do you feel like you have an opportunity for growth within your organization what does dreaming look like for you what does success look like for you because I need to understand whether or not this is a temporary partnership or something that has potential for longevity and that helps me when I understand what their ultimate goals are understanding what their turnover is what type of organization is this because I hate doing business with the deal maker and then when it's time for me to actually work with the people who are going to execute those people are constantly turning over and so who would directly be dealing with back I mean there are all kinds of questions to understand what power they bring to the table and whether or not it's going to be valuable for you and for how long it will be valuable to you no so you've mentioned three questions that you should ask a partner before you get into a marriage with them or an engagement you mentioned what is your shared experience I'm telling you in case you don't remember when you when you put these out into the world but no I got you I'm not not that bad I'm not going to make you remember every interview you've ever done but used to guess suggested what are your shared expressions of faith what is the most traumatic experience you've had in your life and how does that basically show up in your present and what brings you joy and you mentioned these three questions before you engage with the partner I was curious you have questions and you can just think of them on the fly just meaningful questions that you think you'd ask somebody before you get into a business relationship with them okay so you're putting me on the stop on the spot so I know okay so I would say what made you start uh because I want to give you a cash and a purpose behind how you got to wherever you are I want to hear about a time where you almost quit because if you're in business and you have an almost quit yeah you're full of it like cuz don't lie to me maybe you didn't pull the plug maybe didn't fire anybody but tell me about a time where you thought to yourself I almost quit and maybe what kept you going I like that those are good because those are let's give you a good podcaster you have these like beautiful open end of questions no they're very good they're very good because then you started to see the real person which at the end of the day I mean business is just human to human and I think people forget that too like you're just doing business with other people everything is so transactional and then I think COVID and zoom probably didn't help but it's all human to human at the end of the day um talk to me about so you built out um woman evolve so we're talking about concepts and ideas that can help anybody but talk to me about the movement behind woman evolve what what is the the unique value that woman evolve brings to the table what is the unique problem you're trying to solve for because you mentioned you you talked to a whole bunch of different groups you talked to people of color underrepresented minorities you speak to people just the world that large obviously women evolve is focused on women so what's the problem okay so woman evolve is solving a problem for people who want it to women in general who want it to believe in something bigger than themselves but also did not want to lose themselves in the process of it so I grew up in church and I was a teen mother and so I grew up in church but I really didn't feel like it was a part of my life it wasn't something that I could really plug into and then I also grew up on 90s hip hop and rap and I'm just like I don't think that the two could ever meet and when I started woman evolve I was you know sharing my story but I also wanted to create an environment where someone felt safe enough to bring all of themselves into a room where they could connect with like-minded people and have an encounter that was intentional and spiritual but also practical in helping them to navigate health and wellness and pursuing their dreams and their goals and to leave with tools and resources and so it started off I was thinking about it just as an event where I wanted to create an environment where these women felt safe enough a lot of times for women's events we have events for a profession for corporate women we have events for entrepreneurs or just spiritual events and I'm like how do we create a space that incorporates all of who a woman is so she can bring all of herself into a space from there it kind of offsight we've got a podcast a subscription on the main channel we've got a really intentional social media following in devotional and courses because what I learned is that though the events were great that they really wanted to figure out how do I walk this out day to day and so our job then began to create content and connection points that allowed for them to continue what happened in that room and incorporate it into their day to day lives and so from that space we've gotten an opportunity to be really creative about understanding market needs and creating the type of content that is accessible and also robust enough to fulfill them in the areas where they felt they had left I'm curious why you mentioned this and it's interesting why when women I don't know trying to build or upscale or take themselves to the next level why did you say that sometimes women lose themselves man first of all a woman who was decided to scale in any way outside of what society accepts is really being rebellious in a way that I think we underestimate we're rebelling against status quo we're rebelling against norm sometimes we're rebelling against what's acceptable within our culture and I don't think we realize when we begin to pursue whatever scaling looks like for us just how difficult it's going to be to establish ourselves outside of what has been accepted and I think in the process of trying to establish ourselves that we I'm an analogy person so if you can imagine someone like breaking outside of their norm leaving their comfort zone you know maybe they get a tint maybe they get an apartment it takes a minute before you decide where you're going to build a house and I think that a lot of people get lost in between the breakout and the establishing and it takes a person of real humility and commitment to keep going even in the midst of that discouragement and so I think women evolve and others like it there's so many incredible brands that dedicate themselves to meeting people in that middle ground are meant to help you keep going so you don't snap back into what was comfortable but maybe not constructive and then so when so outside of like the resources and the community which I think is huge because having people around you that are on the same path is life changing I mean we don't have to accomplish it on our own it's really difficult and I think a lot of people get in their own at and self-sabotage but outside of community resources courses all you just listed like 10 different things if you're going to give one piece of advice to a woman and I needed to come from you because this is not the perspective that I will ever have so I want to upskill myself I want to take myself to the next level I don't want to lose myself I don't want people to look at me like I'm pushing too hard or whatever the whatever the stigma is that I'm scared of there's probably a million one stigmas that I'm scared of everyone has stigmas that they're scared of so how do I make sure that I don't lose my like what's the what's the the main takeaway the main idea so I don't lose myself on this journey I'm going on you can even say for you like when you when you moved away from I mean like first of all like 90s hip-hop nothing wrong big e-pop like that's listen the last album that I liked was like the future Drake album and then like in my opinion rap went down hill after that but I don't know I feel like the old person I want to keep up but I can't what are we doing now I get it I can't I can't keep up so yeah so like 90s hip-hop no problem with that but you you still want your identity right you still want your identity and you care as as anyone does how you're perceived so as you upskill as you build shit as you conquer life for yourself how did you how did you not lose yourself what was and it doesn't have there's no right or wrong answer it could be god it could be faith it could be family it could be I mean it could be going outside of the city and going camping or or going to see family like once a year because that grounds you and it brings you back to yeah whatever it is I'm just curious what has worked for you I will say that pursuing success without a love of self will always be very dangerous because it will be very difficult to separate your outcomes from your identity and that means that even the great outcomes you're going to think represent who you are and the negative ones represent who you are I will say that before you attempt to scale yourself that you've got to find a way to really love yourself with no additions with no scaling to really love yourself and for me my faith is a part of that but also when you love yourself you know how to feed yourself you know what makes you feel whole what makes you feel complete like I do need to go camping I need to be on my own like you got to love the way that you're showing up in the world and what feeds you and that's what we're holding on to we're holding on to that home that sense of home that exists within yourself so that no matter how successful or how terrible the outcomes are you know how to draw a sword between what I did and who I am and I think from that space you're able to protect yourself and as you invite different people to be on the journey of loving you with helping you of partnering with you on a core level I mean like intimate relationships and friendships do you got to trust that they love what you love about you too because part of being in relationship with someone is signing up to help them protect their core from a world that often tries to deplete us I wonder I wonder when you speak to people do you feel like they try and scale to get fulfillment and try and build to get fulfillment as opposed to finding that first in themselves like is entrepreneurship almost like an escape mechanism what well you for sure I'm careful to call it an escape mechanism I think that it is it's what the world applies I mean we have so many people online telling you like hey you gotta have a bit if you don't have this you're not that if you're not this you're not that and I think entrepreneurship becomes like that care dangling in front of us or success in general becomes the care dangling in front of us but no one is asking the question like what does success look like for you because you were going to be chasing yourself burning out over someone else's definition of success and so I do think that we get caught up trying to achieve a world that you know some other influencer or content creator told us would make us happy only to find out that it did it make us happy maybe it works for them but it didn't work for us and so I do think that if we are not really finding a way to embrace who we are that we're going to embrace who someone else thinks we should be yeah and that this is bringing it full circle now if somebody I know you've kind of touched on this but I just want to sort of highlight this one more time if somebody is trying to figure out what their north star is and trying to figure out what their version of successes how do they find that because this that probably that self-awareness is probably what leads to all the positive outcome and all the things that we're talking about right now but you have to know where you're heading yeah I will say that I think the ultimate success that any human can experience is to leave each person each opportunity better than they were before they had an encounter with them and today or to ask the question how can I make my corner of the world better than it was after I'm gone and to take advantage of any opportunity or resource that would allow your better to become great a lot of times people become incredibly successful entrepreneurs so that their profit can serve underserved communities so entrepreneurship is not bad like the idea of profitability and success is necessary to help many people but I think that if you stop at just profitability because you just want to be rich you know I think that you've missed I don't know unique opportunity to say and what can I do with my wealth that makes the world a better place because money itself it you know it feels nice to have options it feels nice to live better but then there comes a point where you realize that even that is going to pass away and that I want to leave something in the earth that leaves this world better and so I say start with being better start with doing better start with making others better and then see where that takes you you know when we talk about entrepreneurship a lot of people speak about mentors all the time and they speak about different kinds of mentors and how to find mentors and what and that's great um we don't have to go into that because that's been done to death so the thing that I actually appreciate with you is you actually speak about different ecosystems besides mentors you speak about family you speak about community it could be you could be like people on your block or it could be people in like an actual religious community there's different types of communities you speak about work and you speak about power dynamics but I'm power dynamics are interesting but I'm also more curious about as you grow and you succeed what is the relationship like with all these different groups outside of mentors mentors people get it you need mentors it helps you with figuring out shit and you don't have to figure out really about the wheel but all these different groups that are part of your life I think people struggle myself included understanding what place they fit in this nonstop work trying to build the next thing trying to hustle all the time environment because these people were part of your life at one point friend groups family for sure um and sometimes they don't understand or they don't fit into this nice defined cookie cutter version of entrepreneurship so what is this what are these groups to you I mean outside of the fact you work with your family but for somebody maybe who doesn't I've had to and I just recently started working with my family but I think I've had to communicate to my ecosystems how I am changing and so with any ecosystem one role changing disrupts the rest of the ecosystem and disruptions not necessarily bad it just means that things are moving differently and I think a lot of times we don't allow that ecosystem to be disrupted we either stay away from it or we try to fit into this version of ourselves that they used to know so that we don't disregulate anything but communication is the way that we introduce the disruption while also maintaining this place that we want that ecosystem to still exist in and so I would say where do you want these people to fit where do you want your family to fit where do you want your friends to fit and what's keeping them from fitting in that space if you are at a space where like I just released this book I was gone three to four weeks I'm doing interviews all of the time I'm not the same friend that they were used to connecting to but I told them that like hey I'm going through a season right now we're taking everything I have and even that which I don't have to launch this book and so I'm sorry I haven't responded to your messages but this is where I am so I just didn't allow the ecosystem to be disrupted without there being communication there are some people who are like no I totally get it I'm still going to text you all of the time and check when you can respond or not respond there's some people are like you know what if you can be consistent I'm going to pull back and have my own space like giving them permission to respond however they need to respond is important but I think you have an opportunity to figure out where you want them to fit and then communicating how you're changing so that they are able to understand what they can expect from you I will say this and then I'll be quiet I think that one of the greatest mistakes that we make you don't have to be quiet on a podcast it's fine I think one of the greatest mistakes we make when we are scaling in any way whether it's our personal development or professional development is that we expect for people to automatically expand at the rate of our scaling and some people have the capacity to expand but we don't tell them how we need them to expand and so we end up resenting people for not making space for us but we didn't even tell them they were growing and it was important to me that I wrote a book that wasn't like if they don't get it burned and breathed because like these are that's great for an Instagram clip like if they can't go with you to the next level then leave them there like grow this in my mother okay like I don't want to leave her there Instagram's a little wild sometimes with the advice that you get but yes but you know I think communication is everything and I just wouldn't underestimate their ability to grow with you yeah how is it how is it worth like this strategy in your life I mean it's not always perfect how's it worked for you um I deal with my children I deal with my husband um usually my step is season so I know that it's going to take me about six eight weeks to really launch this book in a way that's going to change the way that we connect but then I'm going to take summer down with my kids and we're going to go on a Disney cruise and I'm going to let them drive me crazy like I'm going to swing the pendulum in the other direction I do think it is unfair to just constantly ask for someone to sacrifice sacrifice sacrifice without being willing to give something in return and I think that when I ask them to sacrifice while also knowing how I'm going to give in return that it is easier for them to make room for me I love this okay um I want to bring two more ideas out of the book um and then we'll we'll do a couple just a couple last questions to wrap this up um first question what has been one lesson that is from the book that we didn't talk about that you think is really really important well each chapter ends with this three-prong um called action and it's marinate activate prey and so marinating is like if you have this new idea this new way of thinking this new way of being that you want to introduce into your life like try to avoid just closing the book and activating it immediately like take a minute and let it marinate how's it going to change your life how's it going to change your patterns and routines who's going to be most affected by it so let's let it marinate and then once it's marinated and you kind of sized it up here is a one way that you can begin to activate it and then prayer such an important part to me because of my faith and for someone else it may just be meditating and sitting in stillness uh but that is when I get to like reconcile the costs of this activation the grief connected with me changing the way it's disrupted my world and how that's hard even though it's necessary and the help in supporting guidance I need and moving forward is what I get through prayer so I think that's really important marinate activate prey I love it what is one thing I mean the book is very recent so obviously not much has changed but I will ask you anyways what is one thing that today you wish just thinking back you're like I wish I included this in the book and I didn't put it in whatever reason and maybe the editors maybe it was too long maybe it was something to happen to be in the past week and a half what's one thing that you're like damn it that really should have been part of this and will probably be the next book but that's for the future I wish that I would have created I used a dictionary definition of power because I wanted it to be fluid enough to meet different situations but I wish I would have come up with my own definition of power do you have it do you have one a little bit okay what's the what's the raw version with the caveat that this is not that's not prep thank you right don't hold me to it but I would consider power authenticity resiliency joy determination and humility combined in this like potent potent cocktail of who you are I think all of those things combined and learning to navigate them and trust them and allow them to show up in every space of your life as power I like that definition I like that definition a lot you should run yeah well then run over listen so this this obviously books are not easy things to do like there are a lot of work but next one you got it you got a new definite power 2.0 whatever it will figure it out where do you want to send people obviously obviously so Amazon anywhere you get your books you can go by power moves now is there anywhere else that you want to send people social website anything like that and I'm on the socials on you know I'm probably most active on Instagram Sarah Jake's Roberts but yeah they get the book I pray that that'll be enough to help them know everything they need to know about me perfect okay and then last thing I just always like this you've lived a good life through many seasons looking back now I would be one lesson you would tell your 20 year old self I would tell my 20 year old so to there to be present in my body and in my life and my 20s I was so busy you know as a teen mom I was so busy trying to like beat the statistic beat the odds prove everyone wrong that I was like all mind all mental and I think that I would have encouraged I would encourage myself to be present in my body and to really trust my good and my core and my instincts in a way that I don't think my mind could have ever given me the wisdom that my core was trying to give me