Sarah Dusek - Co-Founder & Managing Partner of Enygma Ventures | 9 Figure Exits & Impact

Welcome to success story. I'm your host, Scott Clary. The success story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network They supported the show for over two years now, and I've used HubSpot for the majority of my professional career One of the most useful tools that is included in the HubSpot suite of products is sales hub Sales hub is an all-in-one platform built with the tools and insights that you need to communicate on a personal level with every lead Every prospect every customer. It doesn't matter what kind of business you're building Sales hub makes it easier to close more deals and drive more revenue You're looking for a better way to acquire customers And we all are because that is the lifeblood of our business If you're looking to make smart data-driven decisions Increase visibility productivity predictability of your revenue. You got to look at sales hub It can organize and sort deals in your pipeline It creates reminder tasks for your most important deadlines and manages leads It automates outreach It tracks and closes deals all in one place and on top of that It's free to get started and it grows with your business as it scales There's 1300 integrations and a ton of valuable add-ons Customize it exactly to your needs with sales hub closing deals is no longer a big deal Go to HubSpot.com slash sales and try it for free Oh Today we have a very special guest who is not only a successful business woman But a passionate advocate for women empowerment and environmental conversation She is Sarah Dusek, a managing partner and co-founder of Enigma Ventures A private investment fund dedicated to supporting and investing in women-led businesses in Africa No, Sarah has an incredibly impressive track record of creating and scaling Innovative ventures that combine profit and purpose In 2022, she launched a $600 million capital vehicle to drive conservation efforts globally With plans to invest in sustainable eco-logging Quiver tree collection will be the largest investment vehicle of its kind in the world Before that, she founded the leading upscale outdoor hospitality brand Under Canvas, which sold in 2018 for over $100 million Under Canvas received a spot on the coveted Inc 5000 list in 2017 And then the same year, Sarah was also named Ernst & Young's EY entrepreneurial winning woman list as a forward thinker and changemaker Sarah believes in the power of leveraging challenging circumstances to propel forward change Give me the time in your life There's a point in your life that was incredibly impactful It sets you on the road that you're on today So it could have been when you're growing up It could have been a point in your career that you took a total 180 It could have been something much more personal like the way that You know your parents brought you up or early childhood education Whatever it is There's something that has been meaningful enough And there's probably a whole bunch of them But there was one thing because I can sort of pinpoint into my life at least When this thing happened or this career event happened or this life event happened And it was like a light bulb moment that said Listen, I don't know where we're going to go eventually But this is a direction I want to start going in And maybe that we can kick it off that way So pick that moment and we'll go from there You're there are so many moments that have been very pivotable Pivotal in my life in terms of sort of Sheeping the direction, the course of my life and my career has gone But in terms of the work that I do now and the work that I'm passionate about Really excited to share more about with you Really came about because of a moment Of trying to raise venture capital from my own startup in the US and being faced with Every see who quite simply was a bully And it's probably not the only bully to ever exist in the world But he was a bully that made me think More women have to be investors More women have to build wealth and have to get into the arena of also being the ones To invest in others and help make other women make things happen And the story goes that I had spent about 18 months Trying to raise our first sort of Fund large sort of round of capital from from my own startup And we'd been in business a long time six, seven years We bootstrap the business But we'd come to this sort of pivotal point in our business Journey where we realized if we didn't put capital into the business We would get left behind but we would not be the market leaders We potentially would lose big market share would be gone And we just knew that it was time to put fuel in the tank And really escalate our business journey And you know, stop playing a small game And play a much bigger game So I went out to raise venture capital Being very green for sure about what that looked like And what what it would entail and how hard it would be in how long it would take And I found it infinitely more Difficult than I thought it would be But I finally got a term sheet to the table after about 18 months of talking to hundreds of people And finally a prestigious firm said Yes, we love what you're doing We love what you're building Here you go Here's a term sheet And I was relieved and so excited And so you know, I just felt like the future of my company is like We're going to be okay We're going to keep going We're going to do this all it's going to be well And The term sheet was horrible It was not terms that we thought we're going to work for us That where they felt quite predatory And they felt really quite extreme In terms of where we were at in our life cycle as a business And in terms of the amount of control We would be giving up for the amount of money that we would be taking on board And I remember saying You know, it's so desperate to keep this term sheet They'll even know You know, when you know something doesn't feel good in your heart But you just keep going anyway because you don't want to let go of it And you you don't want to pass up Something that you've worked really hard for But yet at the same time you just feel like Don't feel like this is quite right So I kept going and kept postponing until one day When I had to tell this I had to tell this guy A problem had happened We were in diligence We'd signed this term sheet We were moving forward And I had to tell this guy A problem a big problem had happened in the company But that I was going to fix it I was going to sort it out I had a plan But I needed to tell them right I needed to be upfront Tell them this is this is what is going wrong this moment Because there's always something going wrong in a startup Right? And it's just life But this is what's going wrong in this moment And he said to me In reply to me being honest and transparent And not trying to like cover it Cover this thing up He said to me That is really bad That is really bad for you If you don't fix that You are not going to come back from that This is going to be on you And it's going to look really bad And I was like What? There's a lot of red flags And bundled into that This is like Yeah And I was like I don't think we're going to be really well suited to being in business together This is This is And this is not great And so I told him I don't think we can do this deal At which point he cemented my decision by telling me Well You are never going to be able to If you don't take money from me You are never going to be able to race capital from anyone Because everyone's going to want to do a deal like this And I'm going to make sure that no one wants to invest in you Because I'm going to black boy you I was like Well We are I am really sure I am not doing a deal with you right now Can I even frame it up a little bit Like because you said you bootstrapped So you were growing the company And it was healthy Was it even Was it profitable Like was it all the markers Yeah We're really profitable We were really We had put We were doing about seven million dollars of in revenue By about this point Probably doing like a million dollars of EBITDA So I was I was doing really well And we were plowing all I know it was great And we were plowing all our profit back into Doing more in the business And putting more capital and to focus on growth So we were using every cent that we had To keep growing So there was nothing You know There was no We were seriously lean and keen But I felt like You know I have a really great business here I've been doing a lot of You know a decent amount of revenue We're profitable I've got this Great onward trajectory I And I You know We feel good But yeah It was not to be So was that was Was that under Canvas Or was that a different business that you're I was under Canvas Yeah That was That was the story of my under Canvas journey Under Canvas is a Large-scale glamping company With locations across the US But that moment made me realize If I ever sell my company If I ever turn under Canvas into something that is valuable That somebody else wants to come along and buy at some point in time I'm going to be an investor I'm going to put my money where my mouth is And start investing in other women because This is crazy It's very sad I've heard this story many times Even a good friend and business partner in mind She sold her company She was a Forbes 30 under 30 And she thought she would get on All the right deals and all the right rooms After you have those kinds of accolades And even as an investor With money, with capital She was not getting access to the deals that she wanted to get into At all Which is actually where we're working together now Not something completely separate But yes, it's very shock It's really hard It's very shocking It's like, this is not the 1920s This is like, this shouldn't be like this And I just fundamentally fell in my heart The venture capital doesn't need to be like that And the actually venture capital It's what fuels economies Because it's what builds businesses Right And my whole philosophy now is That that's how we move countries and nations forward That we invest in building businesses Because when we build businesses We create jobs that creates revenue That stimulates economies And that's what makes our world go round And we think about what makes the US economy One of the largest economies in the world It's small business It's business It's this ability It's the American dream that says Anyone can make it And anyone from anywhere Can build something extraordinary And solve problems and make things happen And we just build this extraordinary Incredible ecosystem Of people hustling And making things happen And buying and selling And doing all sorts of crazy things But that's dignity Right That's life And so that's why I'm doing what I'm doing today And today I have a small venture capital fund Investing in female led businesses in Africa So the two pronged approach of investing in women And helping other women go on the journey that I've been on And also using capital to help fuel economic growth In emerging markets We're going to go into that I'm not done with under Canvas yet I'm just so curious Is just one more We have to know I know how the story concluded Because it was amazing And there's press around it And it was very successful But how did you get over that hump So how did you how did you grow What happened You got rid of this really Well, I cried a lot That hump I cried a lot Let's not get around the bush right now I cried a lot And I felt really sorry for myself And I had a little pity party for about five minutes And after that pity party Got back up again And said Okay Still got to go find money Still got to put fuel in this tank Still got to get this done So thankfully went back out to market And about six months later Did an infinitely better deal With fantastic terms With great partners Who we loved And I think they still love us And we went on And really really exponentially grew the grew the company And about a year later After that Unexpectedly sold the company At the very end of 2018 It was a good exit So it was It was quite a wild ride there for a couple years That's like that's how businesses So What before we really focus on what Your focus on now What would be the one thing That you would tell a young entrepreneur Who's raising money Who's in a similar situation to you 18 months is an incredibly long time So stressful So time consuming So what's the one lesson What's the thing that you're telling somebody right now Who's trying to raise cap It could be a woman who's struggling To find the right conversations Of the right investors Get to Or it could just be another Young entrepreneur Because yes Women probably have Much harder raising money But I know a lot of just entrepreneurs That have predatory term sheets Given to them as well It's just hard Well there's two or three things I might say The most important thing Just on the back of the story that I just told is Just because somebody offers you a term sheet Doesn't mean you need to take it So Right Don't do a bad deal It's always better to do no deal than do a bad deal Right So do a deal That you feel good about And don't believe the hype That says Uh This is this is the way it's always going to be This is the only deal you can get This is the Everyone's doing deals like this This is normal And yes there are definite norms in venture capital But there's always a spectrum of normal Normal is not one thing There is no such thing as a normal term sheet So So if something doesn't sit right with you Just Don't do it Work with it And I think the amazing thing I found about Not having access to capital Men I got really creative Right And I got really really good at driving ROI On very small amounts of money So allow the barrier To be an asset Right So use it to your advantage To get creative To find ways of making things happen That couldn't have happened otherwise Because When you do get capital And if you persevere long enough Ultimately you will find capital You will find the right capital You will Absolutely no doubt in my mind But what you can do whilst you're waiting To raise capital Is make sure that you get really good At generating ROI Because when you do get money You know large chunks of money Hit your business You can then really put that to work And be really good at making that money work for you And what we see a lot of out in the marketplace Is that when money is easy And we're not in an easy money time right now We're in a difficult money time But when money is easy We overspend We overcapitalize We get ahead of ourselves We waste it And we're not smart And all that does Is it makes it harder for us To go raise more money And so what I would say Is get smart with what you've got Because if you can get smart with what you've got Ultimately you'll get good at generating Great returns You'll get great at making money You'll get much more focused About having to be profitable Much faster than potentially You would otherwise Which is actually really really important And you'll build a great business Ultimately your business Will have great foundations Because you didn't overcapitalize too soon Or too easily I'm curious if you think there is Ever a point When somebody should be raising money Before they're profitable Or do you think that people should Really focus on growth funding Yes I think a lot of companies It's quite hard To build something profitable Without something to start with Our own business we injected $40,000 of initial startup Capital and managed to turn that Into a hundred million dollars In value But that's a really unusual thing To be able to do To turn $40,000 into cash That you can make more money from So it usually Take some money To make money The question is how much money And what do you need To get you going So Figuring out where that sort of first Usually your friends, your family, your network You know People who believe in you Are going to be the first people To rally around you To help you Get your foot in the door And actually start to make something happen So I definitely believe In raising capital before a business is profitable But the faster You are thinking about being on the trajectory Towards profitability Is definitely to your advantage for sure So after under canvas Now you want to solve for a problem So you experience this Not so great Experience with the venture capitalist So this is something that you're trying to solve for now So where do you go after under canvas At what's the first step Is it you know a lot of people That were operators and businesses That could go into angel investing Or maybe they would bolt on to an existing venture capital firm and maybe try and Improve them a little bit But you didn't do that Or maybe you did try all those things And I don't know about it But eventually it ended up with a nigma Yeah So maybe that was stupid I don't know No Maybe that's what they should've done No, not at all Not at all So what is the goal? So was a nigma the thing that you took on Almost immediately after Did you take some time and actually Like just take a break, relax Or did were you very headstrong and you jump into it? I took no time whatsoever Which was also probably really stupid Listen, it's It's because you're passionate about it I do think you probably should've taken some time But it doesn't matter It doesn't matter Yeah, probably should've You're not taking any time at all You got a $100 million exit And you just jumped into like the next job Well the greasy thing was after that happened The night we signed the deal for under canvas You know, we're ready to pop the champagne I was still staying on for CEO for a year Post the transaction And I came home from work that day It's signed this amazing deal Ready with the champagne Ready to be all excited And I have two young boys at home I'm a mother of two And my oldest son Was vomiting up a storm And we had Nora virus hit our house that night And for the next two weeks Like if successively someone else Like got the stomach flu We spent the next two weeks Throwing up in our household So there wasn't even a moment of popping the champagne But I did go back to work for under canvas For a year of transition post post that sale But so so things were we're brewing from From me during that that year we're thinking about What do I do next? What do I care about How do I make this idea reality in my own head And I was eager to get stuck in and get to work Working with other women Listening to their stories, hearing their pain and their challenges And ready for a new adventure So that's what happened And we started investing in the beginning of 2020 Which was also a really good time To store a new venture Of course But I was very thankful for it actually Because It meant that during that crazy Crazy time I still had a very strong sense of purpose And people to support and people to rally around Because it's actually very difficult once you've And maybe not many people talk about this actually But when you've been a CEO And you've been a founder of a startup for a long time I mean 10 years is you know Good chunk of one's life It was a quarter of my life It's very hard To suddenly not have that You know I had a lot of people I was responsible for And I spent my life traveling from one place to another Being all over the place Meeting people and working with different groups of people And suddenly for all to stop Is quite strange And I'm 40 something So I wasn't ready to retire And you know Goes on a beach Still had a lot of energy and a lot of passion And so actually I was very thankful That when the pandemic rolled around And there was no beach to go sit on That I wasn't planning on sitting one on one So yeah it was Serendipitous And to each their own I mean I advocate for rest after having a 10-year run And building a business But I also know that it's Yeah and I will advocate a little bit From a little bit of a larger gap But it's funny because you're not that abnormal To be quite honest I don't know too many people Like I interview a lot of people I was an operator myself and then still am to a degree And it doesn't matter if you have a successful thing Or a successful event or something And just like what's the next thing It's always It's just a personality At the end of the day I really believe that Yes And the kind of people that are founders and entrepreneurs But you know That's what's kind of like the inbuilt thing Is you're designed to be going where no one else has gone And doing things no one else has gone And you're constantly looking for You know The path that doesn't exist yet So that you can go forward So it's a blessing and a curse for sure So you're using You're using that gift of Of constantly trying to build That's the good thing That's a very good thing So with enigma So this was This was almost almost right after Under Canvas Now was enigma ventures Was it originally just you investing Because I know that you raised an actual You raised against the actual initiative Well we're still trying to raise more capital For enigma So I'm still on the jolly merry go round Of raising capital And I gave myself more pain Because not only do I have to raise More funding for Our fund But also now have a dozen startups Who also need to go on and raise more capital For more other people So I was like What did I do to myself I just put our Put ourselves on the fundraising bandwagon forever That's the job now That's the Entirely the job But I was gonna say did you Did you start Focusing immediately on women led businesses in Africa Yes we did Yeah that's been the thesis That's been the thesis from the beginning really The woman The woman part was Is the easy part Well both Parts are easy to explain But the one's more obvious than the other And that My own experiences as a female founder And my own sort of lack of knowledge Made me think I don't know I didn't know how this game was played I didn't because it really Truly is a big boys club It really was quite difficult to navigate And I realized if I You know I'm very well educated But if I felt like that I can't be the only woman in the world that this was hard for Or this was difficult to break through in So I just felt like I think I could I could potentially make it easier And I could potentially help other women Get a leg up In making this Traveling the same journey that I've been on So That was the first part And the second part with Africa is that I came to Africa in my early 20s It was what inspired The formation of under canvas in that In under canvas We reimagined the safari experience for A mass market audience in the US By creating re-creating the safari experience outside of national parks across the country And so I fell in love with Africa 20 audios ago And When I came to Africa the first time I came as an aid worker And I came working for an NGO that was doing AIDS education and schools and youth work And I ended up working for NGOs for About eight years before Finally moving over to the dark side And I was disillusioned, frustrated And sad about how a little impact I felt The work that I was doing at the time was able to make And yes, of course, on a micro scale All good works But I didn't feel like we ever solved I ever contributed towards solving any big world problems And I actually think that big world systemic problems are solvable in my lifetime I think poverty is solvable I think, you know, clean water is solvable for everyone I think health care for everyone is solvable And I realized then that NGOs are not the right vehicle for solving problems And that actually businesses are the vehicles that solve problems You know, businesses innovate That, you know, the whole reason to be its business exists is because They are solving a particular problem for a particular group of people And a particular place And they become sustainable because somebody pays them to solve that problem Of run over and over again And so I loved, I just fascinated me this idea that Business not only could be a force for good in the world But actually we might be able to solve some big world problems And contribute towards building a world Through business And so that was the nebulous of the idea Could we empower and support female entrepreneurs And could we also see if we could tackle some big world problems I just want to take a second and thank the sponsor of today's episode HubSpot Now the success story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network So if you like this show, you'll love some of the other shows in their network One of my personal favorites is the hustle daily show It brings you a healthy dose of a reverent offbeat and informative takes On business and tech news and you guessed it every single day Some of their recent episodes that were my personal favorites How AI is making fake IDs How to meet your favorite CEO for a few thousand dollars And also how TikTok is turning into an online mall And starting to replace QVC If you love business, if you want to get it daily Let's into the hustle daily show wherever you get your podcast Interesting, I have similar views about NGOs And the thesis of the NGO is great Like they want to do a good job and they want to solve for a particular problem But it doesn't seem to move the needle at the rate that it actually has to be moved It doesn't move the needle fast enough, it doesn't drive change fast enough And I think NGOs are really well suited in a caring, supporting, bandaging, emergency You know But here and now we need to help these people like right now In terms of long term, getting to the root of big issues So that this issue doesn't continue to keep happening to millions of millions of people I don't know that they are the best vehicle to solve So when you start, when you start this venture You want to invest in women led in women owned businesses in Africa So I'm assuming day one it's some of your money yourself And then you start to raise Now what are the nuances of investing in Africa Because I know nothing about it I know that investing in North America is already high risk And I even would know the institutions and infrastructure that supports it So that at least even though it's high risk There's still some chance that if you have a YC company Or if you have some other company that has a big name, has a big name investor There's a good chance they're going to be successful But in Africa there is the ecosystem And there is infrastructure, not the degree of North America But you have to vet that out, you have to solve for what does good look like How do you find the right entrepreneur's right idea, right market You have a better idea because you spent time over there for sure But there's definitely nuances that Somebody like myself and other investors in North America would not understand at all So what are some of those? Yeah, that's why you should invest in Africa Yes, exactly You're the expert, that is very true That is very true With people working with people day in day out Because at the end of the day I think great investing is about investing in great people With great interest Nothing changes, that's the core Nothing changes, no, at the end of the day still it's people that make things happen However brilliant someone's idea is if they can't execute on that idea it doesn't matter And so looking for good ideas with extraordinary people Is what we really are looking for And if the ideas that people have happened to be able to impact a billion people's lives Or create services and products for a billion people in the continent or world war So it was more about the African entrepreneurial ecosystem Yes And investing, we're looking for great people, extraordinary people with good ideas And that's the same wherever you are really And so finding people who potentially could be solving problems that could reach a billion people across the continent Or could create services and products for you know a billion person's market Is what we're looking for Or a company that could be global Produced products and services that could be utilized around the world So the ecosystem you are right is just very early So it's like we are 50 years ago Where there are origins of Silicon Valley And I think the exciting thing about that Is A, there are an extraordinary number of opportunities Because the ecosystem is so young And there's great opportunity to sort of get in at the beginning of something before You know, things are really taking off But at the same time a real opportunity to do things differently Then have happened through the venture space in Silicon Valley And there's a lot that I would change For example about the Silicon Valley investing space And so Africa is because we've got sort of an early market There's a real opportunity to learn from everything we know about what works and what doesn't work And figure out is there a way to look at Africa and go what's going to work here What do we know what do we not like What's good, what's bad, what's ugly And how do we do something new And that's pretty exciting For any entrepreneur that's pretty exciting So maybe even like go into some of that What's not good about Silicon Valley What should we do different What are you trying to do different in some of the companies that you invest in Nurture, Mentor, Advise What are those things? I mean starting point maybe equitable terms So very often what you have on the table is the money has all the power And the entrepreneur has men And so we have a whole system That's built around the VC being powerful And the entrepreneur not being And being very much in deference to the money that's at the table So there's so much we can do to level that playing field And yes we all understand You know we're trying to make money by investing right But I also think we need to be true real partners that sit alongside each other Parapasoo at the table and say we're in this together And I'm not more powerful and more important than the newer effort and your energy and your sweat And my money isn't more powerful and more important than you And so I think that's that's one thing I also think investors acting like they aren't like in charge So you know we see that a lot right with with investors because They have all the power and all control and all the rights and all the rest of it That they act like they they they dominate and own companies When they really don't And actually what I think what entrepreneurs need is they need us A to get out of the way when they're when they're going great guns And they need us to ask great questions And help them learn the things they don't know That maybe we already knew because we learned the hard way or the expensive way And share those things right But but but create an environment for freedom because We some people still have to learn their own way the hard way right And I my own experience of investing is you know sometimes I can tell women you know That's that's we should do it like this This is not the way it should be done or you know we better if we did this And sometimes people just need to make their own mistakes And that can be as an investor can be very hard Especially when you know That's not the right way But if you really truly believe in the person that you've backed And because you chose this person right You've invested in them You know we've got to have more tolerance for mistakes We've got to have more tolerance for learning We've got to have um Greater capacity to sit at the table shoulder to shoulder And say we're in the trenches together And so that no one ever gets that phone call that says This is really bad for you you know you're going to be out in your year I was like what you know no it's like how can I help you What what can I do to make this better And it's like how can I go ahead of you and open doors for you and make things happen for you And that's what investing should be all about I think opening doors Because we're gatekeepers so how do we open the gates How do we um Fundamentally make sure that more women and people of color Are equally accessing capital How do we make sure that the rooms look multi-colored multi-gendered And no longer just white male Who went to Harvard Stanford and you know Princeton all the rest of it How do we diversify that because if we can diversify Who's getting capital we're going to diversify the problems that we solve And ultimately we're going to build a better world Because we're going to be building a world for everybody As opposed to just a small segment of society Or or even just building a world for the West You know in terms of you know we have a very insular monolithic way that that capitals being invested around the world And it's it's in a western it's in a western way And actually that doesn't work for 75% of the world And so how how do we start thinking More diversely more globally And tackling some of the the big challenges that we can see And investing at capital where it matters So I see a lot of frivolous capital being deployed The latest one I just heard a few weeks ago was like 200 million dollars being invested in a company That helps you decide which watch you should wear I haven't heard I haven't heard this one It makes me want to blow my brains out Because because could we think about investing capital To help people do something that matters Right change some change a problem Change it you know solution that that that really matters It doesn't matter what watch I wear Or if I wear a watch it does not matter And so let's think about using capital as a force for good And caring about what we do with it And I think if we can think about not just investing to make a return But investing to drive impact and to drive results And that should be as important as the return we make on the capital I'd love to see the stock exchange for example Value companies by how much good they do as well as how much Profit they return to their bottom line That would completely be a game changer For how the money markets work for example I mean not going to happen in my lifetime But it's funny because they don't have to be exclusive The KPIs either No they don't I'm very often companies are doing good at doing really really well And so how do we start to put these pieces of the puzzle together And so I think those are some of the opportunities for You know when you're in a new space in a new market Of rewriting the rules And that's those are some of the things that I think are super exciting So what is the opportunity in Africa then? So what do you see with some of these companies? Well to put it in context We had five billion dollars invested VC money invested in Africa in 2022 And I think the same number in the US was about 200 billion So we have a huge difference Yes, the capital being deployed Which obviously means we're woefully underfunded But we're seeing huge advancements at the moment In FinTech In particular FinTech super super hot So you've got the movement of money payments Digitizing services So digitization of money for example is becoming a huge thing And moving an unbanked population to being banked For the first time We've got a couple of companies that are playing in that space That are both doing extraordinarily well We're seeing advances in education Education tech is also really big In thinking about how can we move an eagle In the education well And we're just we're seeing tech Because Africa has not been as advanced In terms of how much tech is integrated into everyone's lives There's so much opportunity for creating digitization across the board In almost every arena So every day we're sort of looking at new opportunities To this service to become online And this and this and this and this And so that's that's super exciting too So definitely at the front end And of course we have the statistic that says By 2040 25% of the world's population Working population will be in Africa So a quarter of the world's workforce is going to be here in Africa So we got to build jobs We got to create companies We got to create opportunities Otherwise we're going to have a quarter of the world unemployed Which is not going to bode well for any of us No, no it's not But when you look at the opportunities in Africa What are there's obviously reasons It's it's not without any Cause for concern why people have not poured money into Africa yet So what are the challenges that you face at a at a political level at There's there's layers to this that makes I'm sure some of it more difficult than a free flowing economy like the US So what are the things that also have to be updated in conjunction with Yeah, so so we've got infrastructure issues And depending on which country you're in You know the infrastructure may be more advanced or less advanced And then your logistics is therefore problematic Potentially with supply chain and production Local local production of products Potentially challenging I just don't think enough money has been invested in Africa period And so some of the historical Lack of investment just really shows drastically in Africa You know be that roads or hospitals Or you know education You know some of the fundamental things that you know I'm poor And you know I'm sitting in it You know one of the wealthiest countries in Africa I'm in South Africa Has probably some of the best infrastructure on the continent And so it varies drastically wherever you go But we're seeing all sorts of incredible people come up with ideas For solving even some of these big kind of issues Like I'm seeing all sorts of logistic companies Donning to come up for example trying to tackle the cross border Logistic challenges and digitize those services And you find ways to get things across borders much more easily So it's different challenges But it's challenges everywhere I'm just wondering what I'm hearing I was going to say what I'm hearing I didn't mean to cut you off apologies I just wanted to really paint this picture So a lot of the companies that you're investing Are solving the infrastructure challenges That really it's almost like a chicken and egg scenario So you have people that are not willing or not wanting to invest in Africa But when somebody is willing to invest in Africa Then you actually solve problems that would make Africa more investable To the average North American or even global investor Yeah absolutely And you are seeing money being poured into Africa The Chinese have been notoriously pouring money into the continent For decades and decades and decades Building minds for mining That Africa is so rich in minerals And resources and gold and diamonds and all the rest of it And in exchange for opportunity to mine those resources Are building roads and schools And public services And so I think the challenge becomes Can we enable Africa to build itself And invest in itself And how do we bring capital into the continent that empowers real people To build on the ground Rather than waiting for governments to fix things that they may have never fixed Or never done or never been able to do And so you know I'm a big believer in power to the little people Power to the people on the ground Because that's how I think you really build economies And you really drive change And you build from the ground up Now obviously you only have so much money that you can Flow into Africa through through Enigma And there's a lot of entrepreneurs that need access to capital So it is a highly competitive environment right now For the entrepreneurs that are even you know speaking with you So how do you how do you decide who to work with But also on the other side How does somebody stand out Yeah great question So yeah I typically look at about 10,000 applications a year Oh my Which is a lot A lot of applications Yeah it's a lot of applications So to stand out you've got to be pretty darn spectacular But I tell you what stands out more than anything And it's traction So when you can prove You've already done something And you're already doing it And you've already got a huge amount of momentum And you're growing really fast It's really hard to pass that up right Because really vintage capital All we really want to do Is back something that's already working That's already got some momentum And that you can pour some fuel on the fire So you want there to be a fire You want there to To be something that's already raging And that you just help it out just a little bit By putting more fuel into it So I'm looking for stuff that's growing It's growing rapidly month-over-month It's got a really good trajectory That it's easy to see If we just put more capital to work This growth can continue Because that's magic I love it And what would be the advice Because I know that You know You pitched to a whole bunch of EC's And now you're on the other side of it So when women are pitching in particular I know that there was a couple things You sent over ahead of time Which I thought was an interesting point That you laid out Navigating the confidence gap What is the confidence gap When it comes specifically to women Pitching venture capitalists Trying to get money Is that like Imposter syndrome Like what is that? I think the difference is that That men And we're being stereotypical right Because you know That's the only way we can Have this kind of conversation Of course it's not true for all men And it's not true for all women But if we're stereotypical for a millisecond Women tend to be very realistic And measured in the way they pitch themselves In terms of They tend not to ever overinflate their numbers They tend to not be overly aggressive They tend to not want to project something They are not 5,000% confident they can deliver on And for venture capital that just doesn't cut it Right Because what you're looking for Is somebody to say I'm going to build the next Uber for Africa And I'm going to build the most grandiose vision You want the Adam Newman craziness Right You know That's another That's a whole other conversation Wait that much crazy But you want women Who are not afraid to stand in the room And so I'm going to build a billion dollar company I'm going to build a hundred million dollar company And here's how I'm going to do it And I'm going to do this This and this and this And that they've got vision and clarity For something that's enormous And I think women often get scared of enormous Because they're worried about I'm here right now And can't necessarily connect all the dots Between here and there And the reality is When you're at the beginning stages of returning Nobody can connect the dots from here to here But all you've got is crazy ideas That say I think this is possible And so we need women To pitch bigger dreams Because bigger dreams is what excites people Because people are trying to make a return Try to make bigger returns Right Bunch cables You know High risk high reward kind of game So women tend to play a bit more safe tend to play a bit more conservatively tend to be much more measured And will inevitably deliver on All those things that they just pitched But may not win the game May not win them when the investment And so I think I think the gap is between realism and optimism And venture capitalism requires an enormous amount of optimism And then we settle for realism when we can't pull it off Right But we need women to sort of move into this Here's the next level of imagining what could be possible In a With an incredible wind And all things Like working out If everything works out of best case scenario This is what's happening Case scenario is exactly And I think what women pitch often is realistic scenarios And that is unfortunately not winning prizes Another stat that's really concerning And it's shocking And I always get these shocking stats Which are actually quite depressing When I do these interviews Because I speak to the people that are researching them And they're in these worlds So 3.4% was The funding for women entrepreneurs Pre-pandemic I don't know what the sample was for that Particularly maybe it's North America Maybe you can It's going to be North America, yeah But it reduced from 3.4% To 2.4% Of overall funding Which is absolutely wild Those numbers are like so So horrible But I guess if these are the numbers These are the numbers The basic thing is that stat hasn't really It's not really changed I mean yes, that's like a little But the stat has been worth that I have issue with more of the 3.4% Than anything Like it's like if a 3.4% The 2.4% Sucks But the issue is not that it went from 3.4 to 2.4 The issue is that it started at 3.4 Yeah Exactly And just And just that It's been like that For decades It just hasn't changed There's been no major movement In decades It's not like Oh last year was a bad year and we had a dip And we were on that up Every other year prior to that No, that's just not the trajectory of how that's been And we're not moving the needle on it And we're not We're not seeing it change At all And as you said It's getting worse More than anything So I You know That is a depressing It's a depressing stat And the only thing There's two things That will move the needle Just like when we had to all get real with It's no longer okay That we hire people that only look like us We have to start diversifying Who we hire And we have to start working a bit harder To find people who don't look like us In our hiring And that becoming a much more mainstream approach And definitely We're not over that hump yet But definitely It's in our radars Most Most Senior execs would have it in their radars That they should be thinking Diversally about hiring for their companies Because it If nothing else It will make their companies likely perform better Because diverse teams generally perform better I think we have to have the same realization with venture capital That actually Our portfolios might perform better If we had a more diverse group of people Sitting at the table, getting capital And building businesses And so we've That's the first thing really The gatekeepers Absolutely Have to start thinking differently About it Being okay To Not be okay To only invest in people that look like them Or You know A monocultural approach to investing We've got to do something about that We've got to do it quickly And we've got to do it overtly And that means People of colour have to be sitting at the table And women have to be sitting on the table So that's the first thing The second thing is Women have got to start thinking bigger So the other problematic stack Is that only 2% of women led businesses Ever do more than a million dollars of revenue So there's a problem Are you serious? Yes, exactly So only 2% of all women led businesses Do more than a million dollars of revenue So women have got to start thinking differently About the women that they build If we want to be more investable We've got to be building different kinds of businesses So that's the thing we can control right We can't control the gatekeepers The gatekeepers have to do that by themselves But the thing we can control is Building bigger Thinking bigger Taking the ceilings off The things that we think about And the things that hold us back To be able to build businesses that are Completely different than what we're doing today And how do we do that? Well, we surround ourselves And we find people to help us think differently Then we already think We help, we help, we get people To help us get unstuck We get coaches, we get mentors We belong to associations and networks And we join WPO and EO And we do what we, you know And to our chambers of commerce And we get help Because it is okay for us to say I don't know how to do this I have no idea to how to build a business That does more than a million dollars of revenue I don't even know how to build a business That does a million dollars of revenue Get help Because women If we don't, this is what we're saddled with Right? And women have to start thinking About building different kinds of businesses And businesses that scale And we have to give ourselves permission We have to say we are able We are capable And we will find the resources to be able to do that And we will do it Because I think the world needs us to do it I think the world will be a much better place for all of us If women do it And yes, I know We have childcare responsibilities And, you know, an unequal burden For managing our homes And managing our children's lives But it is possible To do it We just need to ask for help And not be afraid to ask for help Do you notice in some of the women founders And entrepreneurs that you work with They had a vision when they came in And when they raised money from you But then being in your ecosystem Just being around you all the time And having these different conversations Do you see the vision start to change? 100% Absolutely It's almost like You give women permission And when I first hear them pitch And they give me their realistic pitch And then I say, okay, let's multiply that by 100 Let's think about doing that 100 times bigger than you're imagining today And then they go, oh Okay, all right, let's do that And it's not like It suddenly is like, oh no, I can't do that It's like Somebody giving you permission To think like that Somebody saying that's not overly ambitious That's not inappropriate for you We could do this Let's do that And then suddenly that's a game changer for women Because then you've taken off the The mindset that you've maybe come to the table with And someone has helped you shift your thinking And you're surrounded by other women who are thinking the same Which is really powerful Because then you don't feel like you're crazy Then you just feel like, oh this feels much more normal And that's what we need for women We need it to feel much more normal To be talking about Doing a hundred million dollars of revenue That needs to be normal Well, if you just like if you if you equate it to the that stat You just drop you said less than two percent do a million So say that there's probably a stat For men and it's going to be much higher I would assume So say that I'm going to pick a random number Say 50 percent So that just means that five out of ten of your friends Have had businesses In your peer group Have had businesses that have if you're an entrepreneur That have done over a million So that's normal It's almost like if you don't do under a mill If you don't do over a million Then you're actually in the minority Not normal It's not normal So if you take that If you take another equal peer group of of ten women And two percent that means that Well, that means like like with two Two or no sorry that'd be 20 percent That would be yeah So that would be like less than less than one And maybe none in that particular sample size of ten people Has ever done a business of Of over a million So then all the conversations you have With everybody every single day Casually is going to be like Well, you know, my business does this And it's basically a glorified job And it's making two hundred three hundred thousand dollars Or five hundred six hundred That's pretty much a normal conversation If these stats are valid That's wild And that would totally Like game changer It would it would completely impact how I view business Yeah Totally Because you'd be surrounded By people who were having different conversations Than you were having And your normal would now be a different normal And the amazing thing about Our normals changing Is that when our normal changes Whole people A whole load of other people's Normals are changed right So imagine the difference your business can make If you go from doing one million Revenue to ten million In revenue Imagine how many jobs you just created How many Imagine how many single moms Just put their kids through school Or college or whatever Imagine what you are able to do By building a bigger business And I often think Women think it's it's like Inappropriate To build something big It's because we don't want to be seen to be like You know, we don't want to be like the boys We don't want to be like the boys club Like it's ugly And we, you know, capitalism's ugly And you know There's lots about it that we can't identify with But when you start thinking about The impact that my business could have When I'm a ten million dollar revenue business Or a twenty million dollar revenue business Supposed to have You know, a hundred thousand dollar business The impacts extraordinary You know, the number of lives The number of people's You know, families That education people can get You know, the opportunities that people will have It's just It's just totally different And the impact and the causes that we care about We can we have a platform for And that we can do something about And we can drive change And you know, and I think when women Have wealth They have more choices They potentially have the opportunity to have better lives And you know, the ripple effects for our communities Will be extraordinary And that's You know, that's what we've got to start wrapping our brains around And not just Thinking Why I don't think I can But let's start asking ourselves Why can I not Why can I not do what And what's it going to take for me to make that happen And start putting yourself In the room Where you don't feel like you belong today But spending 10 minutes in that room Will make you feel like, no, if they can do it, I can definitely do it And that's what we need to do We're putting ourselves in rooms Where people are doing bigger and better things than we're doing It's It's just very interesting Because you mentioned like the almost like The aversion to capitalism And I do believe it's because If you look at the largest companies in the world And the most prolific entrepreneurs There's a lot of negative though There's a lot of negative that's covered And you know Pick a name that everyone knows Like Elon Musk People love him People hate him for a variety of different reasons Or any company that lays off people Then that'll be in the news X company laid off X percentage of people But if you actually think Stop and think for a second Yes There was layoffs for one period In one moment in time In that company's life cycle Or maybe even twice But over the course of the 10 years Of that company How many careers of that company make How many How many opportunities of that company create And there's a lot of negative But there's a lot of positive that isn't covered When you grow from no employees And nothing to Thousands and thousands of employees That's thousands and thousands of employees That have had careers in livelihoods For a significant period of time And I think in conjunction with that Women get to leave differently We don't have to leave like Elon Musk We don't have to leave that You can leave that It's a lot of other ways to leave We don't have to We don't have to optimize Every millisecond You know every Send for the bottom line We can optimize for good We can optimize for our people Right We can optimize There are many ways we can optimize But making money Gives us choices And we can choose to build better companies We can choose to build in ways That are sustainable And long term And that we care about people The planet And And our Our world So that's That's what we've got to do And I think there are not Have not been enough precedents Of women leading I have a friend who became The 22nd woman in history And chance to be a black woman So the first black woman in history To have ever taken a completely public And I was like 22 women have done that Yes It's not a lot of women So In 2023 And that shouldn't be That shouldn't be such a low number No No It shouldn't So we have an opportunity We just have to decide We're going to do something about it And it doesn't have to look like It's been done For the last million years We can do it our own way We can lead In ways that matter to us We don't have to follow the examples Of You know The people we don't like We don't have to worry about You know People who've made money or the bad guys The people who've made money or the bad guys Are the people who are not seemingly doing Enough for the little guys And that's our opportunity, right Let's lead in a way That we take everyone with us Because being wealthy on your own is pretty boring Anyway So let's Let's Let's build wealth for the masses And make life better for everyone I love that So I have one question I ask everyone before we close these out But before You pivot What would be one final piece of advice Or word of advice you'd want to give Young Young entrepreneurs People that are Looking to build something Raise money You've given a lot But what would be like the one parting thing That we didn't go into Or that you wanted to come Maybe say dream bigger That we kind of talked about it But I would say it again Don't be afraid To dream big Don't let anyone sit on squash your ideas Or tell you you can Or that you shouldn't Or that you don't belong In a certain room Or a certain table Think bigger Dream bigger Believe in yourself Believe in yourself And other people will believe in you So dream big I love it Okay If people do want to connect with you Where should they go Where do you want to send people Social website all of them Yeah I'm really active on LinkedIn So follow me on LinkedIn At Sarah Ducic Also on Instagram But if you want to connect with me You can find me on LinkedIn Perfect And then after all of this What does success mean to you You are asking the big ones today Scott Um I think it's quite simple actually Success for me When maybe it's twofold Success for me Means Leaving the world in a better place Than when I arrived in it So hopefully moving the world forward Doing something to move the world forward Even just a just a little bit Um and connected with that Um Fulfilling and doing everything That I was designed and made to be and do So fulfilling your destiny and your potential I guess Not leaving anything on the table Putting it all out there That's what success is