Sam Jaeger, Actor | Life, Success, Quarantine and Family

Welcome to the success story podcast, I'm your host, Scott Clary. On this podcast, I have candid interviews with execs, celebrities, politicians, and other notable figures, all who have achieved success through both wins and losses, to learn more about their life, their ideas, and their insights. I sit down with leaders and mentors and unpack their story to help pass those lessons onto others through both experiences and tactical strategy for business professionals, entrepreneurs, and everyone in between. Without further ado, another episode of the success story podcast. Thanks again for joining me today. I'm very excited to be sitting down with Sam Jager, who is a familiar face. You've seen him on television for over 15 years. He's been working on some of the most acclaimed and spoken about series on TV. Time will be next seen in season two of Ryan Murphy's of the politician, starring opposite Judith Light, Beth Middler, Gweneth Peltro. He's a recurring star on Hulu's Emmy nominated series, The Handmaid's Tale. He has also been a regular on this series and will be on a regular for the next season. He starred on Mark Cherry's CBS All Access, Why Woman Kill, and is probably best known for his role as Joel Graham in the beloved NBC series, Parenthood. So an incredible career. Sam began his career in New York and immediately landed a supporting lead role in Steven Spiroberg's traffic upon moving to L.A. Since then, he started in films such as Clint Eastwood's American Sniper, Paul Thomas Anderson's inherent vice. He played lead roles in NBC's series, Law and Order True Crime, The Menendez Murders, and ABC's mini series When We Rise. And on the big screen, he will be next seen opposite Jessica, Jessica Chastain in the search lights, The Eyes of Tammy Faye. So I really appreciate you sitting down. You've had a really, really incredible career. And I want to just, you know, I did a summary, which is a boilerplate summary. It's not doing you justice at all. So thank you for joining, but I want to hear more, you know, from you about your story. Well, thanks. You covered it. You covered all the big points. No, we're good. We'll call it. That's it. I was it. Yeah. It's just been, I'd love to say it's just been one success after another, but it's, you know, I like to say that my career is one of the tools of my career is accepting rejection in all its forms. And, you know, in every myriad of ways. And, you know, doing doing it as an actor, we're, we're, you know, innately more emotional and sensitive than your average show. You know, it's, it's basically just going in for job interviews, hundreds and hundreds of job interviews and getting one out of every, I don't know, 20 of those interviews. So, you know, the, the, the, the only success I've had is in persevering, you know, and accepting, you know, accepting when the job doesn't go my way and being thankful when it does. I've heard this story a lot and I've spoken to other people that have gone the creative route, whether or not it be an actor or somebody who wants to direct, produce screenwriter. And the career path is not linear. It's not traditional. It's very difficult. So help me understand when you're young, when you are getting into this, how do you decide that this is what you want to do for the rest of your life? Well, you know, when I was, I was 13, I think I saw a dead poet's society and I walked out of the movie theater and I said, yeah, that's what I'm going to do. And I had my two closest friends with me at the time and one of them kind of scoffed at the idea and the other one who was my mentor said, yeah, you will. And I just took that to heart. I listened to the one voice and not the other. And I moved out to New York in the middle of, you know, also I will say, you know, I had parents that as fearful as they were about me doing this job, it was really my dad who, you know, who was the, the ones who said, you know, to my mom, you know, he's good at this and let's just let him follow this path. And I think it, my dad was a, it was an attorney and a lawyer and I think he said that he, he should have been a floutist, he played the flute beautifully and still does. But he went for the, you know, the stable job. And I think when it came time for me to decide what I wanted to do, I knew what I wanted to do. I wanted to be part of telling stories and thankfully my parents just supported that. And I think that's the biggest part of having a young career is either, you know, trusting the people you love or just listening to the ones that are telling you, you know, you can do this and ignoring the rest. And I find that so that the support is huge for from parents for people that don't have, you know, like maybe perhaps in a defined career path, it's a little bit, makes a little bit more sense to the steps you take, the sport is huge, but also the process, the process that you have to sort of figure out when you're starting this off is not so clear, at least from my perspective. So how do you start to figure out what the process is for finding the right people to work with or deciding which types of roles you want to do for understanding even like what things to learn so that you can be successful and exceptional on what you do? Yeah, early on, you know, I went to school for it, I studied acting and at the same time, I went early on that I didn't like the feeling of being an actor, which a lot of it is going into rooms with strangers and trying to impress them in five minutes, and I just, it always made me uncomfortable. I'm not a showman, I don't like to be the center of attention, it's too much work. It's ironic, because you do it well. Yeah, I know. I chose the wrong thing, but I like to, you know, I really like telling stories at the end of the day. I was so moved by watching movies at a young age that I just saw them on screen back in Ohio and thought, you know, that, that gets to me more than any other medium, you know. And so I'm kind of a student of how best to tell a story. And a lot of my acting is focused through that prism, which is hopefully if you're telling a story in the right way, it's selfless, you know, you remove yourself from your ego. So it's really about what the scene needs, what the character needs, but also what the story needs. And I think one of the traps of being an actor is we're so focused on what the character needs and how to get a job that we lose sight about what the director or what the story is needs in that moment, in that time. And because I do feel like stories are how we make sense of chaos, you know, and there's plenty of chaos right now, and the chaos of even just being alive, you know, that we are conscious beings on a planet that we have studied billions of miles away and not found one similar. I mean, that's pretty extraordinary and it's only through stories that we, you know, that we're able to deduce, you know, reason and purpose, I think. So I find that very important and acting is just one part of that. No, it's just, I think it's a really good point, you know, the fact that you mentioned stories, I think stories are so powerful because they provide, like you mentioned, context to the human condition and what we go through on a day to day. And you mentioned something that actually just makes me pause for a second. You mentioned like the, the incredibleness of what the human condition is and I don't want to get too heavy and too philosophical, but it's sad because we lose sight of what's really important a lot of the time and there's so much stress and so much anger and so much hate that I think that as, you know, as, as you focus on in, in acting, you focus on building a narrative that portrays selflessness, that is, that is such a universal lesson that how many politicians, how many, how many people that have this platform, if they just adopted that simple mindset, how much, how much less stressed and and and I guess more, I don't know, more just it's the best word for this one, you know, you're just, everyone is, is just more on the same page and and acting more selflessly as opposed to just trying to push a narrative as opposed to listening to to others. I think that's, I've seen that a lot actually, which is very unfortunate. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. You know, I, Scott, you mentioned, you know, the anger and and just, you know, there's so much anger right now, especially and confusion and yeah, honey, hey, yeah, sure, go ask mom about it, okay, and can you do me, she's, I think she's right in there, just going there and just, yeah, she isn't, she's left us, I guess it's just the, the four of us now, huh? There it is. Hey, can you do me a favorite cowman, can you shut this door? Thank you. I love it, we made it this far without, I think, I think the distractions are the best part about everyone working from home now. I love it. I see kids. I bet you just get to see like, oh, now I understand who that person is. It's more real. Yeah. We always, you know, put up this like facade about like our lives and we have it all together and no one has it together. No one's trying to just make it work and figure it out. And I appreciate it. I think that work from home to sort of like highlighted that, you know, it's really nice. And plus you, you know, it's, it's, I don't have kids myself yet, but, um, but I, I work with a ton of people and, you know, whether or not it's a kid or a dog or whatever, it just humanizes you. Just like, this is what it is. We're all just trying to figure it out. Maybe. Yeah. But. So, yeah. No, I appreciate you. Yeah. So, yeah. No, no, no. But I think, you know, that anger, that sense of anger, you know, and, and fear right now, we are along those lines, you know, this, this big picture storytelling, you know, we are, um, one of the reasons I don't like social media is, you know, is that, um, the negative is, is unfiltered and, and so nobody, nobody has to, uh, experience hurting someone in person, which is so much more vulnerable to do, and there's lessons to be learned and people can go on the, the internet and, and hate all they want. And we as human beings are, are created to sense and search for things that we fear in order to remain safe, you know, we hear a sound in the forest and assume it's a bear. And, you know, now that we have homes and, you know, we're all much safer than we were. Yeah. We still have that same sense of fear when we hear something negative, it, it, it, it, it triggers those same parts of our, our brain that say, wow, there's something really dangerous here. So we pay much more attention to the, to the negative. And, um, yeah, and, and, and so I think one of the things about storytelling is that it, if you tell a story in the right way, it, um, it relates a person's experience to someone else. And right now, especially we're so removed from, from real, uh, understanding of one another. And, uh, I think politically, people on, the furthest ends of the spectrum have such a hard time relating to the other because they are so scared of it and so fearful. And, uh, if we can tell a story that shines a light on that. And if the other side can receive it in the way that opens them up a little bit, then I think we've done our job as storytellers, you know, that's a great, um, it's a great good that we do if we can do it. Like I said, I wish, I wish more people thought like that, um, walk me through, walk me through what you're doing with common canyon, um, because I think that, I think that that's something that's really relevant to our current environment where we're all stuck at home. Um, I think it just, it's a recent, it's a recent, like it's from quarantine. You're doing this stuff right now, correct? Yeah. Well, that's kind of an extension of, you know, it takes a lot from me to do anything on social media. Um, and, and yet I thought, well, this is the way to, um, to show that what we're doing this mundane, this day-to-day, is being trapped in our own homes, uh, if we're, if we're able to, we can find some real beauty and it's more work, um, but the whole analogy is based on the first episode of the, that I, I went with my wife to see the Grand Canyon for the first time and looked at it and thought, I need to change who I am. I need to, I've been living kind of this false life and something with this massive expanse in the middle of a continent, maybe think, maybe think that and, and, and we don't have that opportunity right now. We're all stuck. And so the, the real trick is investing in the way to consistently go deeper and find beauty in our, in our lives right now. Um, and, uh, and what's interesting is I, when I was going through it, I was actually having a really hard time finding the beauty and all this for myself. And so the, the video essays kind of became a, a way to, uh, to make sense of it all, even for me, and also to share that with other people. So they're just really small, you know, uh, kind of like poems, but more, more essays on, um, on, on what the strange time is, you know, the 50 years from now are, uh, people will ask us what it was like to be alive right now. And I wanted something to show them, especially these, uh, these boys over here, because right now they just have no idea. They just think, you know, that this is one long vacation with, uh, mom and dad home to answer any and all questions and refill whatever cereal bowls need refilling. Uh, you know, I saw, I kind of made it for them as well. I have a, I have a question on something that, I just have an idea of formulating that I, I think is very interesting, because you work, you work in film and television and, like, for a living, you portray other characters. That's, that's quite literally your job. And I find it funny that, not funny, just interesting. Funny is the wrong word that you are, are self aware enough to understand of the negative impacts of social media when there's so many people who, it seems like all they do is try and portray a different version of themselves on social media. It's like that's, that's their escape. So how do we, how do we bring this to light? How do we enlighten people? How do we make them view social as a tool, but not an escape? And it's a very tough question. I don't, I don't expect you to solve the problem because a lot of underlying mental health things there. But I think that's a big issue. It is such a challenge. I mean, I think the, the hardest part is, you know, I, I just think about like, you know, I'm supposed to, you know, send some selfies for social media or my, my team wants some and I, I think I have about 12 in my phone. I mean, I just don't have, I don't have them. I'd rather take pictures of these boys. And I think it's, I think the real danger is, well, first of all, admitting that we all have it. You know, there's a, there's a need, you know, I was thinking about, okay, well, I got to send some pictures. Well, what, maybe I should make new pictures of myself and where do I, where do I photograph in a place that is indicative of a, a, a, a, a nice surrounding that people would like to look at. And, you know, so we're always trying to, the hard part is instead of living our lives through social media, we're constantly trying to filter out and manipulate where we are. And I feel like on social media, I end up thinking like a, like a, like a bad stand up comedian where everything is a bit, you know, where I sit with these boys and instead of sitting with the boys and playing Legos, I'm thinking about how the Legos and being these boys is funny and relevant to a larger audience. And it's an interesting way to think about it. Yeah. And I don't know if that, it just, it works for some people, but it just, I always feel like it's not being honest to, I, I have a responsibility to them because I was a part of making them. So if I brought them in the world, only for them to look at dad looking at his phone, it's kind of a slap in the face. And, and, you know, it's necessary for work to a degree, but, you know, I, I think it's important to, to separate. And, and I don't have any advice. I just think it's, it's a constant check-in with yourself to say, am I doing the right thing with this? A lot of that. Yeah, everything, yeah, everything takes work. Everything that in the life we're doing involves some amount of work, you know. So, do you find that, just to bring it back to, to your career? And I appreciate that. And I also appreciate that, you know, you mentioned, there is no, there is no catch all, there's no universal advice on this. It's a very difficult topic, but it's also something that, if you look at the anecdotal data from the various people that research this, there's a lot of issue with, with mental health. So I think it's something that, you know, if you can bring it up more often than not and just, just sort of highlight that point that there is an issue with it with today's society, even more so now that we're all stressed and, and we're all, you know, worst, worst cases in most of our lives that we're living through right now. But to, to tee that up and to tie it into, what matters to you in your career and your story, when you work in certain roles, how do you pick a role now versus when you first started? What are the things that you look for? Well, Hey, hey, count, do you mind if I just want to say a high, I just want to be out here? Well, I think you can, but I just want them to, they'll be fine. I don't care. Yeah, yeah, I'm just going to hear, you can hear me. So if, if Gus is going to sing his song, our son, our oldest son, yeah, that's perfect. Thank you, our oldest son, is way into like, like songs on video games. But it's awesome. Yeah, yeah, it'd be like, Dad, can we play the theme to like something on Roblox? I'm going to be like, I don't think there. It's available anywhere. And then, but so he'll just end up humming it very loudly throughout whatever, whatever room he's in and throughout our house. So, sorry, can you remind me? Yeah, for sure. No, I was just asking because you're so, it's obvious you're very self-aware. Right. Just the path that we've taken in this conversation just shows how self-aware you are of what you put out into the world and even like what you're doing. I pulled up the, I pulled up the like one of your, one of your videos and I was just walking to the side of my eye. And it's just a very, like you mentioned, it's very nice, just like a profile about what we're dealing with right now. And it's just like a day in the life of literally you living through a day in a pandemic and the environment. And there's, you know, there's some footage of some people walking by a chevron with the masks on. It's just a very real, you know, piece of what we're doing and what we're living through. But I just meant to say it's obviously you're very self-aware and it's a very big factor in your life. So, I'm assuming that when you go into a role as you sort of matured over your career, the things that you look for must be a little bit different than when you first started. Yeah, they are. I just want people to like me for the first 10 years of doing it, I think. Or I wanted to get the point where I would have one big hit and then that could, from that point on, I could call the shots. And that, that doesn't happen so much. But I'm able to say now, you know, I like this and I can find a purpose in doing it. And it's usually, you know, is it well-written? Are the good people involved? Is this something I haven't done? And on a personal level, the things that I choose are, you know, what good are we doing in the world? You know, as lofty as that sounds, you know, putting something out in the world that challenges people and gets them to look at things from a fresh perspective. That's hard to do, especially hard to do without trying to lecture or educate people, which is always a dangerous thing for a storyteller to do. Because the second you start doing that is the second people check out. And I'm also aware that, you know, if I have something important for me to say, I don't think going on social media, I'm going to change anybody's mind. I don't think that's the way for me to do it. And so choosing the right role or writing material that feels like an evolution of a conversation about what it means to be human, that's far more interesting to me. Also because I just think I don't feel comfortable, I don't feel myself on social media. But I also feel like it's, you know, people gravitate and like something that reiterates their worldview. So there's very few opportunities to find an in-road to a connecting point with people, if that makes sense. It does. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So looking for that in, you know, the handmaid's tale is very a very good example of how there's a conversation about where we're headed and there's a danger in there that that kind of tragedy offers us some insights into where we are now. And I think that's a powerful tool. Because it's not solely trying to preach and educate, it's, but it is offering insights that are there. People just look a little bit deeper. I think that, you know, I love speaking to people that play roles because I think there's a superficial message that people get when they watch film or television, but when you really look deeper, there can be quite a bit that you can bring out from it. And I like speaking to people who actually are involved in these productions, because the themes and the messaging and the things that we have to look out for, you know, we live through, we live through some of these things in real life. And then we try and escape to TV and film and whatnot to get away from our real life. And then we realize like, there can be lessons learned from the arts that I think that we don't look, look too hard into if we just have a little bit more attention. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think people have learned more through Pixar films than the last 20 years than most any other films combined. And I think it's because they are very simple stories with some bittersweet elements to them that, you know, I think it's very powerful, you know, storytelling. And yeah, we were watching inside out last night, and it's very high concept. And yes, you know, the kids enjoy it, and there's a lot of lessons to be learned about within that, like you said, you know, this one girl trying to escape her family because they want her to be happy. And she's trying to keep that up for everybody. I think there's a lot of people that can relate to that, you know, that they're trying to carry this burden of appearing. I saw my three of my closest friends the other night, we got together for very distanced beers in one of the backyards. And one of my friends was saying that he's in this relationship that he started with a woman in Mexico city, you know, that she lives in Los Angeles, but she happens to be quarantined in Mexico city. And he spends an hour every to talking to her. He's never met her in person. And what he's realized is how much of his previous relationships, he had this narrative going in his own mind that he never shared with his girlfriends at the time. And how interesting it was that he's not physically in the same room as someone else, but he's closer to this person than he's been to any other in any other relationship for decades. And yet, you know, we, you know, we would assume that because people are in a room together that we're telling the same story to we're sharing the same story, but he spent years just fabricating this, this hidden identity, you know, I just think that's so fascinating. I also think that the current environment that we're in is bringing out the good and the bad and people. I think because you see now you're seeing like it's unfortunate, you see like these like abnormal amount of divorces and all these other things that are the side effect of being forced to spend time with the person who you're supposed to spend time with anyways, which is sad, but it's a reality. And I think that this is. Well, I mean, these are extreme circumstances, truly. I mean, I, my wife and I have gone through through everything. We were, it took us seven years to finally get married. And I used to say that we had, we got all of our best fights out of the way. And so now the fights are just something that they don't happen. They're just more efficient. It's like, what's your problem? All right, this is my problem. All right, I need five minutes. Okay, I'm sorry. And then we move on. And there's no, you know, but, you know, there's a lot of people that haven't, you know, they haven't dealt with things until this pandemic. And boy, when you're in the same room, and depending on how tiny the room is, you can only imagine the bigger the microscope is for all the things you never explored. Yeah, it's a good testing ground. Yeah, one of the things I mentioned in the second common canyon is that, you know, where I do have a belief that we're going either deeper in or further out of any relationship. And it's so hard to go deep right now because you are just, you know, especially, I always need time to remove myself. Even we go to a party and after two and a half hours, I usually find the chance to go out to the backyard or down and take a walk or, you know, just to get away because of that. Many people, I don't feel comfortable around. And I just need some respite. And we had to build that time in for ourselves. And, you know, it is like we do feel like we're are we going deeper in or are we are we letting things slide and, you know, it's, it's relationships are under a microscope like never before. Yeah, that's, um, with this, this got very heavy. Yeah, like, listen, I was not planning on going, but I'm happy. This is, you know, you're tuned into this stuff. Your, your hype are tuned into it. And I always appreciate a conversation with somebody that is very self-aware. That above anything else is probably my favorite personality trait in all seriousness. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah. I'm always interested. You know, I, I've spent a lot of time on sets and around meeting, you know, with this job, you meet tons of new people. And, um, I'm always fascinated by the, by the alphas. Um, but I'm always aware that I never want to be around them for much longer than 20 minutes, just because I can't, it's just too much work. Um, I'd rather have, you know, I'm married a woman who, uh, I consider the best listener I've ever known. And, and that is, um, uh, I learned so much more from her than from anyone else, even after 20, 20 years being together. Uh, and it's because she's invested in, and the way I, I watch her listen to other people, I, I learn enough just through, through that, you know, she's always, she has no interest in surface. She's, whenever we go out to dinner with anybody, she'll always ask a question and wait. And, um, and, and you really get beneath it, you know, uh, you'll, you'll, you'll relate to this. Growing up in Ohio, similar weather to Toronto, and people can always talk about the weather. And, um, and, or guys, we always talk about sports, but my wife wants to know, and we'll ask a question that kind of gets to the heart of, of who someone is. Um, and it's so refreshing. It's so much more interesting, because we know what the weather's going to be. Generally. Yeah. I think that, I think that another point that, you know, I'm trying to pull out, like, lessons out of, out of this conversation, and there's a lot, um, but being, being able to actually listen to people, actually just, I get tweeted this the other day, like, just being able to listen to understand, as opposed to listen to reply, or listen to judge, and that's a, that's a quote from somebody, you know, someone else probably far more prolific than I am, but I just remember it from reading something somewhere, and, and I think that just, it's so important. And we don't do that. We just don't do that. We just, yeah. And I don't know why. I don't know why we're so quick. Well, you know, I think, I think it is, Scott, I think it goes back to ego. Um, I think we, we are either trying to reiterate our own worldview or trying to prove that someone else's worldview is lesser than ours, in order to, um, and just to justify where we are. And, and so it's a, it's a defense, I think, but if, um, man, I, I, I, I, I think the wife over here, these things that I've learned just watching her is, um, the objective of the listener is to listen. It's not to solve. It's not to educate or entertain or pose a, an alternative. It is simply to listen, which is one of the hardest things. It's like, it's like meditation. It's like breathing. You know, one simple task. And you're trying to filter out all these other things. But most of the time, that's just what people need. And the more you space, you give them to, you know, to talk, the deeper you'll go with them. I'm one of my favorite stories of my wife. Uh, my buddy Jeff, childhood friend, I've known him since we were in church. I mean, seven years old, maybe. And, uh, he lives out here in Los Angeles. And we would have him over because we're Ohio State Buckeye fans. And, you know, football day would come around and they'd go out in the back yard at, uh, half time. And, you know, Amber would clean up a little bit. And I went upstairs, and I was listening to their conversation from the upstairs window. And I, I heard Jeff talking in a way that he's never talked with me. It's just deeper and more intimate, quieter. And I thought to myself, man, how does she do it? What is she doing? What is, what is her secret? And at that moment, I heard her say, how do you feel about that, Jeff? And there was a long pause. And then I heard Jeff just go deeper into how he felt about something. That's it. You know, just investing in someone else, just for the, you know, I think a lot of healing can happen. And especially needs to right now, if we just shut up and listen and give people the floor. I've had this interesting email chain going with the cast of the Handmaid's Tale. And I'm being kind of a newcomer to it. I'm a series regular this year. I'm honored to be involved in this conversation because it does involve race and it involves, you know, some of the actors on our show who were finally saying, you know, this is what I've noticed that our show has been geared towards, you know, you know, an all-white crew, you know, predominantly white cast. And there's an impetus, even I have to want to share and say, yes, I'm, you know, and I just thought, I just, I haven't even responded yet. There's been about 20 correspondence, but I think my response is, you know, yeah, I listen and I hear and I support what all this is going on. The danger is for me to try to prove that what I know is something else to advance that conversation. When I'm still just gathering information, you know, still just deciding what's valuable, what's important, and how to, how we can move forward in a way that that brings us closer. So I think that's kind of what the essence of art for me is just bringing us all in some way closer. All this technology was meant to do that and it has in certain regards and it's torn us apart in other regards. And I think it's always important to lean toward the former. I agree. I agree. Very well said. Whenever I, you know, we started off, we started off with a little bit of your acting and we just really went into things that actually matter, which I really appreciate. Thank you. Yeah. And you know, I always like speaking about you, but this is you and this is what you care about. And this is what we should all care about a little bit more. So I think that it's, I'm happy that we went here. I like to, you know, I think I should get your wife on next because I think she has a lot of value too. From what it sounds like, it sounds like she could probably teach all of us a thing or two about how to be better people and how to listen better. She's pretty amazing, truly. Yeah. She also, she calls it her friend deduce that she has something called mycephonia, which is a condition where you can't like two sounds in the same room sound like, you know, a nightmare in your ears. And so she can, I think she feels like she can physically only listen to one conversation. And it's very challenging as a mother. You can imagine through your very bombastic voices in the house, but one on one, you know, she's like built for for this. What I wanted to ask just to to tee it up, I always like asking some, just some rapid fire insight questions about what you, you know, your life lessons. But before I do a rapid fire, I wanted to just give you the floor. Is there anything that, you know, you're working on right now or anything that you really care about that we didn't touch on? Oh sure. Well, the one thing I'm heading into now is I've been working on this film called Hate that was based off, you know, kind of looking around the world and I started writing it shortly after the Orlando shootings years back. And I started thinking why do why are 15 of the 20 largest mass shootings in our country due to the hands of white males between 18 and 55 and you know, it seems like these are the last people on earth that should be upset with the way the world is since it's been dominated by white men since the beginning of, you know, modern time. So I built this story around that concept about a man who's very lonely and isolated and he's a security installation expert and installs for an interracial couple and then starts to spy on them. And you know, it was again, you know, it's not my job to educate but I did feel like it was a story that needed to be told and I think it's it's it's not a in studying and I realized all my favorite movies are the same movie. They're all film noir, which is usually some guy trying to save a woman that doesn't need saving. And this is very much that same story, you know, it's we have I grew up with this belief that I need to save people and that that they are, you know, that that was my purpose and I think that's at the heart of a lot of this bravado around, you know, even white supremacy, you know, this belief that, you know, that these people find purpose in defending their world view. And so I'm the film is about that, in many ways, but it's it's a labor of love. It's something I'm doing mostly on my own shooting and lighting and sound and editing and it may destroy me, but but it's fun to kind of get that off the ground. So we're hopefully going to start shooting at this this summer in the fall. I have a feeling, I'm a feeling that it will definitely not destroy you and you will you'll handle it just fine. You'll just learn a hell of a lot in the process, but for sure. Yeah, you're not it's very good. Okay. So that's clear. Sorry. Sorry. Are you going to wrap in fire? I'm going to wrap it fire. One question I like to ask is one life lesson that you would tell your younger self. Oh, younger self. Hmm. I'll be a few. Yeah. Yeah. No, he I wouldn't tell him anything. He's going to make the same mistakes whatever I tell him. Is there any life less than you tell someone else who's a little bit more willing to unless hard. Oh, marry your best friend. If you're going to marry somebody. It's good advice. Make sure it's someone you you just absolutely adore. It's a very good advice. And the second question I want to ask was it could be a book, a podcast, an audible, a person, a resource? What's something that somebody should go check out that they can go learn from? Hmm. Huh. Could be a video, could be a movie that particularly inspired you. Yeah, sure. Sure. Uh, I mean, there's so many great things to learn from right now. I'm currently I'm currently reading how to be an anti-racist and anti-racist by he for him not X and it's uh, it's an interesting book because it starts from a standpoint of him talking about uh, being young and and giving or, you know, winning this or rating award. But he had all these viewpoints and now he's entirely ashamed of and I thought that that's a really interesting way to enter into this conversation about race right now. You know, I think when it comes to being isolated, there's a book that I have always loved. It's still one of my favorites that in this time of isolation is all the more meaningful. The name of the book is called Winesburg, Ohio and it's uh, was written in 1919 by Sherwood Anderson. And what's fascinating about that is it's just about this fictional town based on Sherwood Anderson's childhood town of Clyde, Ohio. Um, but it's all about how these people in this quiet little town, the beginning of the century, lit up all these sad, sorted lives. And yet, um, each chapter of you has one different person in the town. It's a quiet book. It's a very simple book, but anybody can pick it up and relate to the stories in it. Um, and, and it's an, it's a, it's, it's incredibly insightful, especially now that we're all sequestering our own homes. It's a nice, slow, uh, rewarding read. Very good. Those are, yeah. Well, I, you know, the latter for sure I've never heard of, so I'm gonna go check it out. So that's, uh, that's good. I like that. Those are good, good suggestions. At the time I, I discovered it, not in Ohio. I was out here. I went to the Hollywood branch library and I sat in this place that I would write in there every day and I saw this wall. It was like a curriculum for schools and I'm just gonna, I'm gonna make this my purpose to read all these books on this whole wall because I'm sure there's the whole world is in this. And I started with A's and so Sherwood Anderson was right at the top and I was like, well, this is, this is a great place to start. That's probably the only way you're gonna discover that as well. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Last question. Probably the most important. Where do people go to get more about what you're working on, your social, even if you don't like posting as much, you still have to have some, the people you can get to know. Yeah, no, no. I have an Instagram. I think it's Sam underscore Jager. You can see the common canyon videos there and I think it's also available on Twitter. Yeah. And then politician to season two is on Netflix right now to fascinating sensational season to watch. That's all for today. Thanks again for joining me on another episode of the success story podcast. You can download or stream this podcast wherever podcasts are available, including iTunes, Spotify, Google, Stitcher, iHeartRadio and many others. You can also watch this podcast on YouTube. If you haven't already, please subscribe and share this podcast with your friends, family, co-workers and peers. Please leave us a rating on iTunes. It takes about 30 seconds as it allows other people to find our podcast and let's our amazing guests reach even more people with their message and remember, any rating is fine as long as it contains five stars. I'm Scott Clary from the success story podcast signing off.