Reverse Engineering Your Goals & the Importance of Process w/ Matthew Confer & Learn to Lead Podcast #scottsthoughts

Hey everyone, Scott here from the success story podcast today. You're going to hear me on these something about innovation podcast hosted by Clayton Hinkle. We broke down some innovative sales and marketing strategies at least I think they are and we also spoke about some great leadership and management lessons that were unearthed through the last two years during the pandemic and how that's impacted businesses. I hope you enjoy. Scott Clary, is that what you said? Clary, right? Yeah, you got it. You got it? No, Clary. No, Clary, people make that mistake. Clary, Clary. Clary. So welcome to the show, something about innovation. I'm Clayton. It's the first time we've met face to face. That's true. So I see you all over LinkedIn. I thought you'd be great to have on the show. So why don't you want to just start out with, you know, we kind of have the discussion. Do you think you're innovative? You think you're innovative? So could you just kind of start with why? Why you say that? I think I think I think that's a precursor to being on the show. So maybe I was just trying to maybe just trying to get in, but no. Oh, now you disappoint me. No, no, I'll walk you through what I do and maybe some of it's innovative. Hopefully it's innovative. So it's great. I work in software. Right now I lead a sales marketing team. I work for the company Grass Valley before, for the past two years, I was working for a company called Excitement. We were just acquired by Grass Valley about a month ago, formally. We were working in an informal capacity before. So we sell software to broadcasters. We sell stuff for live streaming, audience engagement. Things that allow people to connect virtually. That's that's my nine to five. Outside of that, you see me on LinkedIn. You see me building my own brand. You see me podcasting, posting, all that stuff. And that's the other side of what I do. You know, that side hustle, the building of the podcast is getting my name out there, getting people to know who I am, finding incredible people talk to on the podcast. So, you know, I innovate in my job in terms of the tech that we actually deliver to customers. And then I also innovate in terms, in my opinion, building out a brand is innovating in a sense because it's something that not everybody's doing yet, but it has incredible long-term potential. It has a lot of benefit. You're doing it now with this podcast. You're building out a show around you speaking to guests, you hope, fingers crossed, right? And that's a little bit of a backstory of 360 of what I am and what I do. So what do you, you've talked a lot to people, you know, over 100, 100 podcasts. You had to have learned, you probably can't count the number of things you've learned. What are some of the things that, you know, of those 100 plus guests? What sticks out to you? I mean, what have you kind of, you know, the top three things you've learned from that experience so far? Sure. The number one thing I would say is anybody who is successful at anything is very curious, as a curious personality. You see that come up in many different ways and it's said differently, depending on who says it, of course, but that's the underlying theme. You want to explore things. You want to figure stuff out on your own and that's manifested in successful careers. It's manifested in really successful businesses, entrepreneurial ventures, all this stuff. It's about being curious and just trying to figure it out without somebody teaching it to you. That's the number one thing that I see a lot of very successful people do. Another thing that I see a lot of people say that has helped them become successful is the ability. It's almost a dichotomy. It's the ability to ask for help when they need it and knowing that they don't know everything. That's a huge, huge, that's a huge win and a huge positive personality trait. But at the same time, having a significant amount of confidence in their own abilities, so it's funny how that works. They know that if everything, if they lost all their money, they lost their job, their business folded, they got fired, whatever. They know that they could do it again and they're not concerned because they know they can do it again from nothing, from literally nothing. They're okay with that. But they also know that along that journey, if they don't know something, it's okay to ask, it's okay to find a mentor, it's okay to ask a peer, it's okay to ask a boss, a friend, whatever, because the dumbest thing you can possibly do in a job is pretend you know something and the fake it till you make it is not going to get you very far if you really don't know what you're doing. So ask and the second you ask, I'm in sales, so I ask all the time. I'm okay asking, but a lot of people maybe don't have that wired into their personality, feeling like it's okay to ask for help, and I think that that is what can make or break somebody, the ability to ask for help. And then you sort of, you said three things, okay, let's say, let's say one more thing. I'm a big proponent of threes. Yeah, I know, it's a good it's a good number, it's an easy number. So you got curiosity, we got the ability to be like self-aware. And there's, you know, I guess the the one that you'll hear again and again, and this is, I don't pretend this is like new info, if you listen to an entrepreneur speak about this or anybody who has some measure of success, they'll say the word they'll use is grit, perseverance, tenacity, it's like what is success, success is, yeah, exactly, persistence, I love it, that's a great sure heck, I couldn't help. No, no, no, it's a good shirt, and that's what it is. Customake.com people. Really? Customake.com. Yeah, that's cool. I didn't know that I've never seen that. You're welcome. You're welcome. So yeah, you can put whatever you want. Yeah, I just wrote it on a shirt. I like it. I like it. So I talk about you, thanks, I appreciate that. Yeah, I talk about, it just came to me one day, I don't know. I was on some topic, I linked in that the phrase just came to me. What, I write a lot, I've written and talked a lot about humility. It's very important to me humility and not pretending you know everything. And you know, I kind of was on that for a while. And someone said, well, you know, humility is too passive. And I think that you, you summed it up very well. And what you just said, it's, humility isn't necessarily, okay, I have a low opinion of myself. I think you can have a high opinion of yourself, just not at the expense of other people, right? I like that a lot. What you talked about, yeah, what you talked about is, you know, I'm confident, but I know I, I don't know it all, it's impossible. And, you know, I have to rely on the team, the team and other people to assist to accomplish things. And so I kind of revised, I wrote an article on it, LinkedIn. I kind of revised a little bit to put that in there because it's a good point. I mean, you know, because if you look at humility, the definition, it's kind of a lower modest opinion. And I don't, you know, I think it's okay that you have confidence in yourself. Just don't let it, let it be at the expense of others. I like that. That's when I like the way that you phrase that being, being too humble or having humility, not being humble, having humility, it is very passive. So part of that, part of that problem is having to go find people. So having humility is fine. But if you're not doing anything about it, if you're just saying, I don't know, and there's no action, then you're just still not knowing what you're, you still don't know what you're doing, right? Right. Exactly. Yeah. I kind of call it a proactive humility. Yes. I like that a lot. You know, there's lots of different terms, but yeah. So that's interesting. Do you, you know, in the, in the talks you've had with people, do you, does that come out? Do you think the humility side of people? It depends on the personality. I think it depends on the personality. I think, I think, I think, I think at, I think, at its core, most people at some point in their career have had to have been humble to be successful. Actually, well, you know, what? No, I, you know, thinking back most, most successful individuals have a, have a degree if you have a, some degree of humility. I don't think that anybody, I don't think that anybody's come across as I've done this without help, or I've done this on my own. I don't think I've ever had that vibe from somebody, ever actually. Yeah, because what I see a lot of cases and my article kind of goes to this only Tim, but, you know, there are so many companies that, that they get, they get arrogant. You know, they've got this killer product. No, don't change it. You know, it's a cash cow. Don't change it. Don't innovate. And then they, they inevitably fail. I mean, for example, I used to, yeah, yeah, the example I used to, my article was, was Blackberry. You know, people want a physical keyboard. I had an argument. 2010, the colleague, I said, he's like, iPhone's a toy. I said, iPhone is not a toy. It's the future. And, you know, I, you just have to, you have to be open to, you know, and to, for me, it was about being open. It's like, you know, I have, I don't like, I like the physical keyboard better. Yeah. But this virtual one, is it good enough? And will I trade it for all this extra real estate on my, on my device? And, you know, I think the answer is yes. The answer to the answer is a, a resounding yes. And you can, Blackberry, uh, poison us, uh, blockbuster, um, everyone that went bankrupt in the past two years because they only were focused on brick and mortar and they didn't have any sort of e-commerce business. There's a, uh, a thousand and one examples of companies that didn't innovate and died because, because they were arrogant. And then there's another thousand and one examples of companies that knew that they had to figure out something or they were going to die. And now they're thriving. So, yeah. Sometimes you can pull out the dive. You can. I mean, Apple did. Apple pulled out of the dive, right? I mean, they were, they were going, no, we're good there for a while and then jobs came back and, it's a lot of companies that have innovated. And I can't, I can't think of the example, I'll talk in my head, but there's some, they, there's some products that you use day to day. And I wish I could have one. IBM's one. There's a few that have like gone through so many different cycles that you wouldn't even recognize. Yeah. Yeah. You could argue, you know, maybe the American car manufacturers to a certain extent. Yeah. I mean, they got, they got some help from the government, but what do you think makes a good leader? What makes a good leader is, what, what makes a good leader is different than what a lot of people who are leaders personify. What makes a good leader is somebody who wants people who they're working with to eventually grow and outgrow the place that they're in right now. So what makes a good leader is when you are building people up to the point where they have the ability to exit your organization and, and get paid more, do something else, start a side hustle, be successful at that because of the, the tutelage and the learning and the, and the, the, the things that you've given them while you've had a chance to be part of their life. That's what a good leader is. When you're growing other people, said more simply, that's not unfortunately what a lot of leaders do because they're focused on bottom lines, KPRs, OKRs, revenue, whatever metric you want it. So it's, it's very hard to find somebody who is altruistic enough and a good enough person to, and, and also smart enough and talented enough person to be able to balance organizational goals while also focusing on the growth, the true growth of the people that they work with. And it can be, it can, it doesn't have to be monumental tasks like I'll give, I'll give examples like when I, when I have employees that work for me, if they're looking for something that I'm actually going through right now, they're looking for another job with a, with a company. And we don't have a position that really fulfills what they are actually able to do. So they're given as much time as you need to find another company. I'm editing her resume right now. I'm giving her a reference letter and I'm making sure that wherever she lands, she's going to be doing what she has to do. And it's going to, it's going to, it's a financial burden and it's a stressful burden on, on the company I'm working with right now. But you know what, at the end of the day, she's going to be happier, she's going to be, you know, exceeding and, and, and doing what she actually wants to be doing, which is moving into a project management role. And in our company, we're going to have to fill the gap that she was, you know, that she was in. And it is what it is. But we'll survive. She'll be better off for it. And at the end of the day, I feel like I do believe that there is a sense of karma or, you know, what goes around comes around. And I have, and I'm absolutely positive that by, by allowing people to do that, then that's one example. But by, by providing people to support to do that, it's going to only lead to good things in the future for, for, you know, our relationship, myself and, and, you know, my company, her, and wherever she ends up. So it's just, that's a simple like one-off example. But that's the kind of thing that not a lot of people would do. I don't know too many bosses that help their employees write resumes to go get them a new job. But if she's not a good fit, and she's not happy, and she's not a, you know, succeeding and excelling in what she can do, and you don't have a way to make that happen in your company, then take the extra step and review a resume on a Saturday night so that she has the foundation to go be successful somewhere else if you have the ability to do that. I think that that's just a, it's a, it's a small little example, but it's something that has to happen more often than that is, in my opinion, without sounding pretentious, because I'm giving you an example of myself, and it's not what I mean to do. But that's the type of stuff that makes good leadership. Yeah, no, that's fair. So for the show, I, I tried to do some background research on you, and I came across a little tidbit. I hate to bring this up, you know, this is going to be broadcast, but is it true that you actually tried to rob Bank of Canada with a butter knife when you were seven? Yes, it is. It's unfortunate. I did some hard time for that. It is some hard time for me. Well, I heard, I heard three, I heard three years in Juvie. This is what I heard. Is that what, you know, is that what kind of turned you around, do you think in your life? Or what was your inspiration growing up? Well, you know, I'm glad at that point. It was just the butter knife. That's why it was only three years. I wasn't that successful with the butter knife. But, you know, I can only imagine if I got away with the money, I would have been spending the rest of my life in jail. So, you know, that's funny, that's funny. So who was your inspiration growing up? Bob and Doug McKinsey, were they? Yeah, Bob and Doug McKinsey were there at home. Because they were very successful innovators yet you have to admit, I mean, they were successful innovators. Is that the only Canadian innovator that you could pull up? Well, I mean, it's the most famous, right? I mean, come on. One of the most famous, you know, they're, oh, no, that's not Bob and Doug McKinsey. I was, oh, my God, I was watching. I just saw some old Canadian actors redoing like they're trying to make themselves relevant again. And I'm blanking on who they are. I think actually, who is it? No, it's not talking Bob McKinsey. It's he's googling everybody. Watch out. I am googling it. It's, oh, I'm blanking on their names. Anyways, it was like another like duo that was trying to make themselves relevant and they're doing like Uber Eats commercials again. And I had to laugh because it's around from the same time that they were, that they were famous, I guess. But anyways, what, what is my inspiration? Yeah, I'm black. I guess, I guess the serious question is why sales and marketing, you know, why did you, well, attracted you to that area? Didn't, didn't start in marketing. Didn't start in marketing by any means. So my family, my family is all police. So father was RCMP. Uncle was RCMP, which is basically just in Canada, like, you know, federal level police. I'm just, I'm just breaking it down. Did they really write horses? Is that a real thing? Like all around Canada, did they write horses still? No, that's not the transportation. No, it's not the main method of transportation. So yeah, so my fan might, you know, then then my father went to the thesis, which is like a Canadian, Canadian CIA, you know, by putting simply without going into too much, too much detail. But so my back, you might get, you know, just wanted to see this broadcast. I'll get in trouble if we go any deeper on that one. But no, so my background was, my background was law, law enforcement. My undergrad, my undergrad was in like basically criminology and pre-law. I was going to go into, I was going to go into law school after, you know, my four-year undergrad. And while in university, I started working for a telecom company, which is funny why you brought, you brought up Blackberry at work for Bell Canada while in university. So I'm very, very well aware of the Blackberry situation and the struggles that they've gone through because very, very tightly, you know, very, very, we can sold their products all the time. So anyway, so started in, in Helko Sales, Tech Sales did quite well at it, made a ton of money. And university for the type of job that I was doing, because there's a whole bunch of commissions and whatnot, moved up through different markets. So moved into call center, then moved into like actual business sales. So SMB, mid enterprise with Bell and was very good at sales. It was very good at sales. It was very good at technical sales. And as you move up market to sell more complicated products, I always knocked my numbers out of the park, Presidents Club, you know, in the top percentile, that it was always very easy. And I guess it was a mix of being able to naturally communicate with people a little bit of charisma built into there with a strong technical understanding, because I do nerd out and try and really dive into tech on a lot of different things. So a lot of the products we sold came quite easily. And I could not, I could really explain them quite easily. The customers which ended up being a really a strength when it came to tech sales. So if you're making good money, you're excelling at your job. And then you start to see the career path start to form. So you then I moved into a separate telco and other telco. And I was in a sales leadership position there. It was more of a startup vibe. It wasn't startup in terms of the length that it's been around, but it was startup in terms of the revenue size. And it was a founder, operator company. And that's when I was starting to do sales, but I was also working with the marketing team as well. And I just realized that in a leadership position, if you are in the control of sales and revenue, you should still have a strong understanding of the marketing component of an organization. You should understand how to drive demand, how to drive revenue, how to get your products out there, how to attract people to your company. And I understood that if I wanted to be successful, and in my mind, it was like CRO, like C-suite. Like that's what I that's that was the goal. Like if I if I was going to do this, I wasn't going to do it and just stay at one point. I wanted to do it and be like incredibly successful because then you know, keep in mind, this is replacing law school. This is replacing this is replacing a significant career, you know, good money, good pay in law. So if I'm going to do it, I'm going to go all the way to the top. So I got to learn all this stuff that comes with being at the top. So that was sort of that was sort of my first entrance into sales, evolved into loving it, making a ton of money, doing it. And then as I moved into leadership positions, then it was more just how do I understand the strategy behind how to make the most money for a company, which then started to involve marketing. And I mentioned one point about people who are successful in their careers or with their businesses are being are extremely curious. Well, that's me. That is that is that is me in a nutshell. I learned everything. I learned absolutely everything. I'm podcasts, YouTube, you to me, auditing courses, whatever it is, I'm learning it, I'm doing it, I'm applying it, I'm testing it. And that's been my entire career. Just learning things and not in a formal setting ever. I took a have an MBA now, but back then, I did not have an MBA. I didn't have any business schooling. I didn't go to I didn't go I didn't take a, you know, a bachelor of business or a business degree of my undergrad, but it's all about finding it out, figuring it out and doing it. And that's what I've been doing since since I realized that that's what I have to do to really get to that, you know, see sweet level in an organization. I can identify, yeah, I can identify with that. I actually went to school from mechanical engineering and ended up in IT. So, you know, I think that's not probably that uncommon, but it's hard to know what you want to do the rest of your life when you're when you're 20. So it is hard. But if you find something you're good at and you find something that you can understand and you can do better than other people and it also pays you a ton of money, you generally try to double down on that thing. Now, I also try to double down on entrepreneurship. That was, I went into consulting. I was trying to build my own consulting practice. That was, that was fun. It was a lot of work. I learned a lot. I've always just tried new things. If it works, I do it more. If it doesn't work, I try something else. And that's sort of what's led me down my entire career. And it's always been in what I know best, which is sales, marketing, bringing a product to a customer, bringing customers to a product and everything from top of funnel, developing demand all the way through to driving a customer down through a sales cycle and eventually closing. And I just keep applying the lessons that I learned. And now the stuff that I know at this point is pretty much on the cutting edge on the on the bleeding edge of what is relevant and what companies use today in terms of strategy to to drive the man to develop the man to drive revenue. And that's what I'm applying to the startup that I was working at that was just acquired, as well as what I'm still doing with Grass Valley. And I use those same lessons to grow my own stuff. I use the same marketing lessons to get my podcast out. I use the same marketing lessons to grow my newsletter. And it's everything you do has a compounding effect. So when you learn something in one part, if you, for example, are starting a side hustle, you have to learn how to market how to sell. I have the luxury of being able to already know some of that stuff from my nine to five, but you just, you're compounding all the lessons you learn on, onto each other and you're just becoming better at everything you do constantly. And that's, listen, that's, that's the key to being successful in life. That's it. What else? Well, you didn't get the second time. You didn't, you didn't apparently on top of the second time I tried to rob a bank with the, with the butter knife. Also unsuccessful. So I'm glad you didn't go too far into my plan. Yeah, I don't know. The butter knife incident was that butter knife incident. It instant wasn't good. Trying to think what else? What do you, what are your, the people that you bring onto your show? What are, what are, what are they? Who are they? Are they entrepreneurs? Are they interesting people that, is there a niche that you try and serve? It's really hard to get people to come on the show, to be frank. I mean, I just got started. I just got started. Yeah, for me, I like, I've always liked new ideas, you know, innovation. It's what I like to do. It's what I like to talk about. You know, what, what are, how about this one? You know, what from a COVID perspective? I mean, that's been disruptive to every industry. Yeah. How have you seen things change and how companies, you know, from your perspective, had to change over the last year in order to accommodate. Comments that. So that's a good point. And actually, we didn't even, you know, it's silly. We talked about, we spoke about my background. We didn't even speak about innovation in terms of how companies market or how companies sell, which is actually what I do day in day out. That's what I'm trying to figure out. That's what I'm actually doing. But part of those things how to company, how to companies operate, how to companies, how to companies actually in a COVID environment, how do they keep the lights on, how do they, how do they interact and engage with their employees? So a few lessons out of COVID. First of all, companies from a technical perspective have not properly previously the COVID set themselves up for success. They didn't have the infrastructure to support people working from home, people being able to communicate outside of the office. There was a, in a lot of companies, not all companies, certain industries are much better set up for this than others. For example, like the Facebooks and the Googles and the fang, you know, the Facebook Apple Netflix is of the world and all the Silicon Valley, that's fine. They're good. But the other companies, they were sorely under, under invested in their tech stack and their understanding of how people want to work and light to work in 2021. And what COVID did is it fast-tracked that learning curve for a lot of companies. It made people realize that if they're going to compete, if they're going to be relevant, if they're going to attract the best youngest, brightest, talent, whatever it may be, they have to find the tools to allow people to work the way they want to work. Because if you're only attracting people in your geographical region to come into the office all the time, that's going to be an impediment because what 2020 and 2021 have done is they've acclimated and made people just much more okay with working virtually, like working remotely. And yeah, you cut off. You can't hear me. I lost my audio. Did it die? Can you talk again? Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, you're back. Sorry. See, it's not always breaks. Something always breaks. You have no idea. First trading break. I can't just work. Of course, then I don't have a job because IT would be fine, but that's true. So we're so I'm sorry, where were you? No, I was just saying that companies under under invested in tech. So they had to ramp up their tech. And by ramping up their tech, that means that now people can they can hire people anywhere in the world quite easily. So that's one thing the company that's a hurdle the company has to go to work through. Yeah. So do you think that's a good thing or a bad thing because you know, before companies were kind of geographically restrained, you know, because they wanted you to come into the office, right? So outsourcing, you could do it to other countries, but it was a pain. And now that everyone is perhaps remote, you know, I think the good news is is the good news for employees perhaps is that, you know, you can live in Florida and be employed in California, for example, but you could also live in India and be employed in California. So how do you think that shakes out going forward? Well, I think it's so one thing that I've learned is that a lot of we spoke about leadership before and you spoke about good leaders and a lot of companies found out that they have a whole bunch of shitty leaders that work for their company and they don't know how to do they don't know they don't know what they're so concerned about micromanaging an employee in office that the second an employee goes home, nobody knows how to manage nobody knows how to actually get people to perform because they've never actually had to worry about true leadership, right? I put that in like true leadership as opposed to just micromanaging or being somebody's boss, whereas if you find a good employee and you light a fire in that employee and you get them excited about what they're doing day in day out, they're going to do that from home. But if you're a shit leader and you have never properly communicated or built any sort of bond with your employees and they're, you know, they're looking at a clock waiting to leave and then all of a sudden that person's working from home, well yeah, it's going to be hard to manage them because you didn't you didn't actually set them up for success and you haven't been a good leader to them up until that point, you were just micromanaging them and that's how you got output out of that person. That's not a way to lead, but that's what a lot of companies encountered when their whole teams went home and then they realized that their teams didn't really care that much about the work they were doing and all of a sudden now you have these people that are trying to figure out how to micromanage people at home, which is not the answer, but that's the that's the result. That's the result of poor leadership that was sort of exposed during COVID. That's one thing. That's a that for me, it's about results. I mean, I don't understand why people, yeah, I don't understand why people have such a struggle with just saying, okay, here are the 10 things that you need to get done this week. Right. Into the week, are they done or they not done? Because they're not, because they're not confident. They're not confident in their own ability. They're not confident in their own ability, or perhaps those 10 things, those results, perhaps the employees don't even understand why those results matter. And if the employees don't understand why those results matter, that's not an employee problem. That's a company problem, because you're not communicating properly with your employees. So that leads to break down a communication. And then if something gets missed and because the employee doesn't know why it mattered or not, then you're upset. But in the office, maybe you would be like breathing down their neck and saying like, when is this going to be done? But now they're home, you can't breathe down their neck anymore. So now you have to become a better person, a better version of yourself, a better leader, whatever that is. And a lot of people had a lot of trouble with that. I think that's another result of COVID. So you're seeing who's a good leader, who's a who's a horrible leader, because it's exposed. Yeah, I've also I've also read it takes a different type of leader, you know, but more than that, then then then Christmas, I think charismatic, you know, because what this article was arguing that, you know, leaders often kind of over a charismatic and, you know, they they're able to feed that energy into the employees. And when you're remote, you can't do that as well. I like that. That's a good way of resisting a lot more important. That's a very good way of putting it. Yeah, Christmas is very important. Christmas is very important, but I I think that if that's all you're relying on, then of course you're still going to you're still going to not be as effective. And that will trickle down to your team or your peers missing the mark on things. So again, but but if you're just if you're just a charismatic person in real life anyways, it doesn't mean you're a good leader, just because you locked into having a team that rallies behind you and figures the foot on your own, because you're a nice person, your charismatic and everybody likes you, doesn't actually make you a good leader. That's just masking point. Yeah, I agree in person environment. Yeah, right. But I think a lot of leader, I think a lot of people were promoted into leadership because they are charismatic. And it's not the right reason, but I think it might be the reality. It could be because they're the ones that speak up, right? Those are those are the ones that raise their hand and and those are the ones that maybe build the relationships or network or whatnot. And you're right, it's not a good it's not a good de facto, you know, we're going to take the person who I like the best to move into the team lead position or the management position. That's not good. That's not good at all. I'm sure that happens all the time. That's well, I'm going to do that and then I'm not going to teach them how to be a leader. So yeah, that's yeah, what's it's coming from a sales background is even worse, right? Because usually in sales, you have the top seller become the sales manager. And the top seller doesn't usually have a really great process for how they sell. They're just a very charismatic outgoing person. They close a lot of deals. They've been doing this way for like the past five, 10 years, whatever. I'm going to a sale leadership role and they don't have a single leadership or management skill in their body. And now they're letting down their whole team. They're not sure why people are missing the mark, not hitting the revenue numbers, whatever. But they don't know how to lead. They don't have to man. They don't know how to teach because they've just been the top performer that yesterday they were a top performer. Today they're supposed to be this this leader, this teacher to all these people that are looking up to them. That's a hard transition to make. And it's one that people are usually not successful at. And there's other you know that's sort of my background in sales and sales leadership and whatnot. So I know that and I see it happen a lot. But I'm sure there's similar instances happen in other in other parts of businesses where you like you have that charismatic individual that moves into a leadership position because they network with the right people or whatnot. Not saying it happens all the time, but it does happen. It'd be naive to think otherwise. But but not it's a very good point. So COVID COVID made people sort of you know get their stuff together, get their shit together. And it's going to it's going to continue to make people enforceable to get their shit together. And that's what I think out of all the negative and bad and horrible that this past two years has brought us one thing. It has forced companies to be better or they will go to business. This is going to be a heavily edited video. Let me tell you that. That's cool. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. So thanks for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. Man, it's my pleasure. Keep doing what you're doing and keep in touch. You're welcome. So it's got clarity, everybody. I'm great. I'm a great great great weekend. Cheers.