Paul Hutchinson - Co-Founder of Bridge Investment Group, Founder of the Child Liberation Foundation | The Sound Of Freedom

When I was in elementary school, I was being called Bucky, it wasn't that popular, I wasn't that cool, everybody else had the cool girlfriends, I didn't have a cool girlfriend. Yeah, I'm sitting here trying to figure out, okay, how do I do this life thing? How do I get friends? How do I become successful in life? What was funny is fast-forward. I went to my 20 year reunion, my 30 year reunion, I freaking paid for the whole thing, right? And so many of your people are like, oh yeah, yeah, I remember you in high school, no you don't, I was kind of a loser, you don't remember me, right? Paul Hutchinson co-founded Bridge Investment Group Mr. Hutchinson's is well known around the world for his philanthropic and charity contributions, with a specific focus on changing the lives of children throughout the world. How did you overcome those ethical dilemmas? You can call it karma, the universe god, call it whatever you want. There's a higher power, very interested in us doing that, and I will tell you this, the forces of the universe that came into play that created success in areas in my companies was very... Why real estate investment? Why did you get into this game in the first place? The step one was having a really big dream. In starting out? How does that actually translate when you were building up your firm? How does that translate into the strategy that you deployed? When I want to know the secret sauce, first of all, welcome to success story, I'm your host, Scott Clary. The success story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network. They've supported the show for almost two years now, so I want to just give a shout out to them. HubSpot is an incredible tool for business leaders. If you've never tried it before, you obviously have to check it out. You've heard a lot about it on this show, but outside of just HubSpot being amazing, they're incorporating AI tools that as a business leader, you have to pay attention to, because right now we're living through the industrial age of AI. There are already tons of innovative ways to leverage AI tech to streamline and grow your business. HubSpot just launched two free AI tools that can help you automate some of the more tedious parts of marketing and managing the CRM. Content Assistant and ChatSpot are brand new GPT-powered features that can instantly brainstorm blog topics, write ad copy, filter contacts, run reports, so much more. They're like virtual assistants that never complain, never quit, that quickly dig through data dumps to find you the needle in the haystack. To learn more about using AI to grow a better business, head to hubspot.com slash artificial dash intelligence. Wonderful. I've had a lot of key points in my life that were massive changes and motivators that helped me move forward and create the life that I have now. Looking back when I was in elementary school in junior high, I had a really bad buck teeth. To the point where I couldn't even shut my mouth, but that one teeth sticking out. I was being called Bucky. I wasn't that popular. I wasn't that cool. Everybody else had the cool girlfriends. I didn't have cool girlfriends. I didn't know how that goes. I'm sitting here trying to figure out, okay, how do I do this life thing? How do I get friends? How do I become successful in life? As funny as fast forward, I went to my 20-year reunion, drove a Ferrari, my 30-year reunion, I freaking paid for the whole thing. I remember you in high school. No, you don't. I was kind of a loser. You don't remember that's what motivated me. Everybody wants to remember you when you paid for the reunion or when you pull up in a luxury car. Everybody wants to be your friend then. One of the kids who was super popular way back then who had been following me and saw what I had done. He was in the finance world and when his version of the finance world, a fund manager is like the god of the universe, right? It's the top of the top of the top. If you can actually be a fund manager of a multi-billion dollar fund, there's nothing higher. You can be a financial consultant. You can all of these things, but that's like the top of the rock. At the 30-year reunion, he's like, I'm going to now introduce the person who paid for all this, the master of the universe. But I will say that how they treated me when I was in high school was hugely motivational. It was so motivational. I remember running for a student, running for an office, and my slogan was if it ain't hutch, it ain't much. And one of the kids crossed out some things and turned it into if it ain't hutch, it ain't much. No, and changed it to if it ain't hutch ain't much. I don't know what it was, but it was like total assistance. It wasn't good. Yeah, I was like, I'm mentally going. So it was funny because years later, he was like the bishop of this this congregation and my cousin was getting married at the location that he was there and he met me. He goes, oh, Paul, he said, I spent so many years. He said, when I was like, I wasn't the same guy in junior high and high in that I am today. Just so you know, I said, oh, that's that's good. I'm happy. He said, you don't remember that didn't affect you at all. Did it? What, what I said? I said, oh, when you got the whole class to start chanting, hutch ain't much. Yeah, now that didn't affect me. I said, just so you know, it affected me more than anything during my entire junior high. He had this look and I said, no, I said, it's okay. I want to give you a hug. I want to thank you because you want to thank me. I said, yeah, I said, I use that as so much motivation to make sure that I would live a life in a way where somebody couldn't say, hutch ain't much. You know, no, I freaking nailed it. And I worked my butt off when most people weren't. And so I gave him a hug and he got emotional. But things like that were a big deal to me. And I went into my dad. I remember I went to my dad and I said, dad, I said, how do I, how do I make friends? And how do I be successful? What does that look like? And instead of sitting down and talking to me, I mean, he, he led by a great example of how to work with integrity, etc. But he gave me two things. He gave me a book, an old tattered book that he had in his shelf for years when he was a kid by Del Carnegie, how to win friends and influence people. And then he gave me an audio program by Brian Tracy called the psychology of achievement. And in that book, I started understanding in the how to win friends and influence people. I started to realize, hey, I was going about it all wrong. I was, I was trying to be cool. I was trying to say the right words to make people like me. What if instead I was genuinely interested in them? What if instead I, I, I tried to figure out what things were valuable to them in their lives and create value for them? You know, one drop of honey is more effective than a gallon of gals. What it says, and I started understanding these principles that every person I met was a thousand times more interested in themselves than they were me. And it started to transition everything. And, then as I started listening to this audio program by Brian Tracy, the psychology of achievement, the premise of the entire program is simply this, change how you're thinking and you'll change your entire life. Everything, everything starts with this right here. That psychology of achievement starts with looking in the mirror and shaving a millionaire while I'm still broke, right? But visualizing that and feeling that and seeing the value that I can create for the world. In fact, years later when John and I were starting the fun, John would, John tells the story a lot. He's, people ask him, how'd you become a multi-billion dollar fund? You know, did you see it in the beginning? He goes, no, I didn't, but Paul did. He said, we would be there trying to get some things done and, and we'd have a deal where we needed $25,000 by Friday and Paul would be on the phone just calling. We'd be in this little office. We paid $300 a month to be in this little teeny office that came with free Wi-Fi and, and a printer and it was so small we would hit elbows as we turned around and we'd have the deal. We needed $25,000 by Friday and I'd be making calls, making calls and I'd hang up a call and I'd turn around and I'd say, John, I'd put my pinky by my mouth. I'd say, John, we're going to be a billion dollar fund someday. And he's like, Paul, we need $25,000 by Friday. You understand that? And, and, and then after the end of the day, he said, Paul, he said, you know that neither me or you have the background, the education, the pedigree, the anything to run a multi-billion dollar company. He said, you know that, right? I said, I know. But if we have the vision of where we can go and we build it with integrity from the beginning, we will attract the right partners and we will build whatever and we never thought would be, you know, we're now 48, 48 billion dollars in assets under management. And it's due to the fact that we had that vision in the beginning and we brought on power players, we attracted those power players. One in a billion chance that those right people were there, but that all started with that changing how I thought about the world without audio program, but I got in my early, in my teens. Do you think, do you think, because I think that your, your early childhood experience, high school experience, that's pretty common. A lot of people have really shitty, not everybody, but all of you got really shitty experiences in high school. And do you think it was your ability to not let that impact you long-term, but you, you took on that feeling of needing to be great, but you didn't let the feeling of, I'm going to assume that whatever anybody says about me should actually impact how I feel and how I think. And you didn't let that impact you long-term because of that literature and the audiobook your dad gave you. Do you think that that's what allowed you to pursue, to persevere, to be great? Was it that the, it was the, it was the understanding that, you know, after high school, no one really cares about me that much. No one, no one else's opinion really matters that much because it's funny, because in high school, you feel that everyone's opinion matters. But then you go into the real world and you keep that. A lot of people keep that and it holds them down. They're always worried about what everyone else is thinking, but it seems like you almost like, you experience this really shitty moment. But then all of a sudden, you were like, woken up to reality about what the real world is like at a very young age because of the sort of the mentors that you learned from. And then you just, you just went, you know, in a total different direction. You didn't let that high school experience hold you down. And it gave me a level of compassion because of the fact that I was, I was, you know, not that popular and had the buck teeth and then that braces everything else and being picked on. I had compassion for anybody who would be in that position and then that being at that point in my life and then having that book, how to win friends and influence people. I realized there's a lot of other people having shitty experiences as well. What if I can be their friend? What if I can, what if I can see through all of that? And even, even the popular kids, I can't tell you how many of the popular kids really had a crappy home life and they were, they were, you know, they weren't truly happy. Even though they were popular, they were the all star, the cheerleader, whatever else. They weren't really happy. And so feeling that compassion because I had been there and switching in my mind, hey, you know what? I can be a friend to have a friend. And what if I can be a friend to everybody? And then as I'm listening to this audio program, the psychology of achievement and realizing that I can literally create anything I want in my life, then I decided that I would create things that would add massive value in the lives of other people. And I'm telling you right now, if somebody wants to earn a million dollars, you figure out how to have a million dollars worth of value that you've added into the lives of others. You want to make a billion dollars? Figure out how to create a billion dollars worth of value in the lives of others. Yes, you can make money with with ways that are out of integrity, but you can make a lot of money with your integrity, making real solid value for value exchanges with people with the businesses that you're creating the opportunities you're putting together. You know what? It's amazing that you thought like that at an early stage. I think it's really commendable. You know what I actually think when I'm listening to your story, I think that it allowed you to overcome all the barriers and obstacles that a lot of people experience and you experienced yourself when you're building out this fund, this firm, like you deal with all the bullshit, all the negative, all the knows, all the rejections, all the why would I trust you? You know, you don't have a track record, whatever it is, you don't have the experience. But when you approach something with the mindset that you have, that you're actually delivering value into the world and it's, you know, it's your job to help these people's lives get better and whatever fashion that is, it's like the negative doesn't impact you. It doesn't affect you. It doesn't cause you to quit after six months or a year because you're like, you're an idiot for not working with me. If only you knew what I know, which is actually the most incredible entrepreneurial attitude, it's a little bit like you have to be a little bit nuts to think like that sometimes. But you truly believe, you truly believe that that person's missing out by not working with you. So like you persevere and that action is actually what drives success because I fully believe you persevere for long enough, you will be successful at the thing that you want to build, but it's just people give up too quickly. Yeah, absolutely. That's what I did too. You know, when I, we created something in the investment side that I was comfortable if, if my grandmother was qualified to invest in the fund, I would feel comfortable putting her money in there because I knew we built it with pure integrity. So it was easy when I'm sitting down with these big checkriders that have built multi-billion dollar companies and say, listen, I've created something that is a true win-win win. And, and we became the number one performing real estate fund in the country within our peer group with it for like 10 years straight of multi-family funds over a hundred million dollars. We have, it's like a 23.2% net net return to our investors year over year, which is fantastic. But more important than the return to my investors in my world, more important than that was the fact that nobody had to lose. We weren't scum lords. We had, we had 50,000 apartment units. And guess what? Every one of them, the tenants had a better experience because we owned them than they did before we bought them, right? Little examples. We, we had a lot of our apartment complexes were in what I call the smile states. They're, you know, it's close to the border, the southern border, and up California, and up these coasts, etc. And a lot of our tenants, because we were a dollar square foot, a thousand dollars a month type apartment, you know, just small apartments, not, not C class, but not A, either, you know, B, B plus type apartment complexes. A lot of our tenants were immigrants, you know, and especially in the southern states, a lot of them spoke Spanish and, and, and a lot of those Latinos that were there, they didn't play tennis. We have these old tennis courts in these places. So we, every one of them, we would take down those tennis nets. We would put in little mini soccer fields in that space, right? We would bring in English as a second language. We would bring in the book mobile. We would, we would take a space and create a place for, for, for a tutoring program for the kids and everything else. So people's caught their value of where they were staying. We were going to put gold towel rods in a B class neighborhood. That's not, that's not what we were adding value. Instead, just like what I learned in how to for it, when friends and influence people, how can I truly put myself in their shoes of the people that we're living in our apartment complexes? How can I, how can I be there? And we as a team thought through that on every single one. How, what is the, the they need? How can we create value for them? How can we create a safe place for them to raise their children at a thousand dollars a month in their apartment that they're staying? See what I mean? So creating that kind of a win together with the, the win that we had the cash that we could pay for the banks when they were having some challenges in the 2008 crisis, all of these things, a win for our employees having a positive place to work, a win for our investors having a great return, a true win-win-win type of a scenario is what allowed us to build it to the point where, we're now 48 billion under management. What, when you, so you, so walk me through, I just want to understand the, the, the inception of, of bridge investment group and, and I understand your, your ethos as, as an entrepreneur, it makes a lot of sense. I think a lot of entrepreneurs would like to be like you, but I feel like they always find that going the extra mile sometimes is, is hard or expensive, but you didn't let that stop you. So help me understand, help me understand why, why real estate investment? Why did you get into this game in the first place? What was the, was actually the thing that I see? Yeah. My, my first one, it was in my early 20s, I had that, I had a call center, I had a, a program that was selling things on infomercials and whatnot, I had over 200 employees and, and I remember when I was broke and I was working a job and trying to build my company and I'd be driving home at midnight. No one, I have to wake up at 5 a.m. the next morning to go to my job to pay my bills and, and I remember rolling down my window and putting my head out the window, trying to keep myself awake and I would yell, go ahead and sleep losers. I'm going to be a millionaire, right? Just yell that out, just to keep myself awake, right? And so it was, it was that willingness to, to go that extra mile always. And, and I always have the, the, the vision of, from an entrepreneur, I would rather, I would rather work 18 hours a day, owning my own hot dog stand, then, then ask somebody when I could go to the bathroom at a corporate job, right? And you've got to as an entrepreneur, you have to have that mindset. You have to get to the point where you're like, you know what? I, I am, I am so not going to report to somebody every day. Now, if you don't have that mindset, if you're not willing to discipline yourself, to go that extra mile to work 10, 12, 14, 18 hours a day when necessary, if you can't discipline yourself to do that, you need to go get a job. You need to go find somebody to make you get out of that. If you're, if you have to wake up to an alarm clock every morning because you're not motivated to go kick butt in the world, then you probably need a boss to motivate you to get out of that, right? And so, so the step one was having a really big dream. And, and I want to tell the entrepreneurs, it's okay. It's okay to want a Ferrari. It's okay to have one big house. It's wanted. It's okay to want a jet and a helicopter and a private yacht. It's those, those things are okay, right? Understand, yes, I donate millions of dollars to charity and I make a massive impact in the world. But in starting out, it, it was the things that motivated me that got me excited. You, it's super hard to be massively motivated to go through all the nose and all the rejections. If you know that you're going to just donate a whole bunch of money like a mother Theresa, right? And, and it's okay. It's okay to have a good lifestyle because when you get here, you'll be in a position where you can make a massive impact in the lives of other people. But it also starts right there in the beginning with making that decision then. So, so that's what I did to motivate myself. I had a vision board. You know, this was 30 years ago when it wasn't as cool as this today. I had, I had pictures of, you know, houses and cars and trips and things like that that every time I was getting discouraged, I would say, okay, there's my why. You know, I'd go walk through houses that were being constructed and visualize that being my house someday. And in my opinion, eradicating poverty on this earth or eradicating hunger on this earth is never going to happen by showing pictures of poverty and hunger to affluent people. Yes, the affluent people need to write checks to, to create a platform and an environment allowing them to change. But the change is going to happen when you help those people in poverty, visualize where they can be. Help them show them pictures of affluence and help them see that they have the capability of being and doing anything that they want. So, whether that's the people and object poverty, whether that's the entrepreneur's, that vision of where you want to be is number one. Without that dream, everything else doesn't matter. I love this. And the follow up to that was you always took the high road when you were building anything. You took the ethical road when you were building anything. Why do you think, or how did you overcome those ethical dilemmas? Was it that you always maintained that purpose that you had focused on purpose over money? Because a lot of entrepreneurs don't default to the high road. You see Forbes 30 under 30s getting arrested and indicted. And I think that there's a lot of pressure on people to reach status and to reach these financial milestones. And I'm sure social media doesn't help. But it seems like you always steered away from that. So, how did you accomplish that? What is the lesson for entrepreneurs that are struggling right now to make ends meet? Here's what I would say. You can call it karma. You can call it the universe. You can call it god. Call it whatever you want to. There's a higher power. Very interested in us doing good. And I will tell you this. The forces of the universe that came into play that created success in areas in my companies was very, very apparent when I was living within with with integrity when I was building from integrity and when I was doing charitable work. And every single dollar that I earned, it was super joyful because I knew. I knew that I was adding value in the lives of others and I was doing so from a place of pure integrity. If you're earning money in a place out of integrity, yes, it's possible. Yes, it's possible to make a whole crapload of money and scam and people. You can be a Bernie made off of that's what you want to be. However, every single penny that you're spending will tinker your soul and you will feel it. You'll feel the darkness and that's where so many people reach that level of financial security and they're really not happy. I can tell you how many wealthy people I know who really aren't happy because they were chasing the dollar and they weren't creating true value in the lives of other people as they were moving along. And and part of the problem is this, Scott, if you if anybody is an entrepreneur, if you're entrepreneurs, if anything in their mindset thinks that we live in a zero sum world, meaning this, the only way that I'm going to make a billion dollars is if other people lose a billion, right? If I make a million, somebody's got to lose a million. I've got to take that million from somewhere in order for me to make money. If there's anything in your subconscious mind that believes that we live in a world of scarcity, then you're going to act out of integrity to make money because down inside you're thinking that you're taking from others anyway, right? Changing that perception is vital. It's so important that people truly understand that we live in a world of abundance, that you can create a true win, win, win across the board. The reason why so many people think that we live in a world of scarcity is many economics books, if you open up the book in the very definition of economics, for a lot of books is the division of scarce resources, which is a fallacy. There is enough for our resources in this world where every one of us can have all the food we could ever eat, all the houses we could ever live in, all the clothes we could ever wear, right? The only thing that keeps people in this mindset is thinking that we are dividing scarce resources. It reminds me of a story back in the, I believe it was in the 1600s, there was maybe 1700s, there was a man who was knighted by the queen of England because of his thesis statement paper that predicted the end of the empire because of a shortage of well-blubber, right? So we laugh today, we think, okay, yeah, the end of the empire because of a shortage of well-blubber. Yes, what? That's that scarcity mentality is so many of us living still today, is we think, oh, there's not enough, there's not enough. No, if you go back even to the 1600s and you ask an astrologer, what's your definition of what you do as an astrologer? He would tell you, oh, well, an astrologer's studies how the stars and the planets and the sun revolve around the earth and the very definition of what they did precluded them from understanding the truth that the earth wasn't the center of the universe. The very definition of economics in most places that division of scarce resources, that definition precludes people from understanding the truth that indeed we live in a world of abundance and we can create value for everybody in your pursuit. How does that actually translate when you were building up your firm? How does that translate into the strategy that you deployed? When I want to know the secret sauce, you said you were giving exceptional returns while living in integrity, living in alignment, understanding that's win-win-win across the board for a lot of people that's ideal circumstance that they can only hope to achieve. So how does that actually translate into business strategy for you? Absolutely. So I'll take it on each piece. So first of all, John and I, in the beginning owning 50% of the company each, realizing we don't have the background, the education, et cetera, to really run a company like this. So finding people who have really done something amazing in their life who are super qualified in the right areas that we needed, bringing them on board. Perfect example is a guy with the name of Kelly. Kelly came into our office, we were pretty small, we have three or four employees and he said, hey guys, I really want to be a part of what you guys are creating, what you're doing. And we said, hey, we're not, we're not hiring right now. He goes, no, no, I don't even need to get a pay me anything. I will, I will take a place in that corner. He says over there in that corner right there, I'll bring my own desk and I'll eat what I kill, right? I'll come, I'll bring you guys deals and stuff and if you fund them then you can make me. Well, Kelly is now building a 14, 15,000 square foot home, right? Kelly is a multi-multimillionaire today because we weren't so selfish with, okay, this is only a the game is locked, nobody else can have any equity. No, we made a lot of people millionaires as in the process of building the fund and bringing on lots of new partners, right? So that's number one and seeing the value that he was bringing and not being in a position where we're like, okay, we're going to take his stuff and try to keep it. No, we see his value and give him value and return for his value in a beautiful way, right? So there's number one, number two, we already touched on this a little bit with the with the tenants. We would say, okay, we're going to put ourselves in their shoes. We're not going to be a scum lord and come in and try to, you know, rape the money no, we're going to say, how can we create value? Yes, we're going to make sure that the pricing is ratcheted up to the point where it's really competitive, but more important than that, before we ratchet up the pricing on everything, we're going to make sure that people really see the value in living there. And then from the bank standpoint, we become one before the 2008 crisis. We saw that crisis coming because of one of the partners that I had that saw that come on early and we were able to get into a position where we were one of the first 20 funds in the country to be qualified on the top level purchasing platform with all the GSEs with Freddie, Fanny, HUD, FDIC. So when a bank had 30 days to live, we would get a phone call. We would go in, the bank president by then is willing to negotiate. He's like, okay, 30 days from now, he's out of a job and his shareholders have a big fat zero if he doesn't get some massive liquidity. So we go in, look at their portfolio, say, okay, we're going to take that that thousand unit apartment complex off your hands. I know you're into it $100 million. We're going to pay you $35 million cash today, give you the liquidity you need to stay in business. It's a win for the bank. The bank stays in business. They have that liquidity. It's a win for us because now we have the team to be able to create the value and manage it the way that it could. It's a win for my investors because we have smart leverage on it and we can recreate that return. And I can go through that with a lot of other companies as well. The attacking anxiety and depression company, a perfect one that I did in my early 20s, right? We had a program, an audio and a workbook program that helped people change their negative habit patterns of thought that we're creating anxiety and depression in the first place. And it was a $250 program. It cost us $30 to make, but it costs us like $200 and advertising just to get a client with our infomercials was kind of breaking even there. But we had a valuable product for them and then we created a personal coaching program. Now here's the thing. On the outside, this looks like this isn't going to work. These are people who can't even work a job because of their anxiety or depression disorders. They can't even leave their house. And I'm getting them to max out their credit card for $2,000 personal coaching program. And I can do that sleeping well at night. Why? Because I had a 100% money back guarantee. We have 97% success rate. If 12 weeks later, after lining them up with a personal coach and having them get the help that they needed, if they weren't living a normal life, if they weren't working a normal job, I would give them their $2,000 back. And that was less than 3%. The other 97%. Now they're earning $2,000 or $3,000 a month. Now they can pay back that credit card. It's a true win for them. And it's a win for my employees. They're making good income. And the people who went through our program, we gave them a job as personal coaches in helping others. So I could create a true win-win win. In that company, I sold for $20 million when I was 29 years old. Right? And now it was a public company with restricted stock. That's a whole different story. But it was something where we created a true win-win win for everybody across the board without anybody having to lose because the customers were paying $2,000 for something that was worth $20,000 in terms of their actual value in their life. I love this. And one thing that I've noticed that you heavily focus on this allowed you to adopt this mindset is the trust in the product, the absolute trust in the product. If it's an investment opportunity, if it's self-help course or teaching session, as a founder, what is your framework for okaying the product that you can take to market? Here's what I'm going to say. It depends on your customer and what they're looking for them. And a true win-win win has to come from that standpoint. I'll give you this example. Okay? You're up in Northern Alaska and you meet a guy who has a whole bunch of firms and you want to buy a bunch of firms, right? And you don't have cash. He only wants to trade. And you give him a Picasso painting, right? He's got a bunch of firms. There may be retail, they're worth $5,000, right? You give him a $20,000 Picasso painting. You've actually done him a disservice. Why? He can't do crap with that. It's going to end up in his woodshed, right? But you give him a $200 gun that he can go and shoot some more or some traps or whatever else. Now you've created a true win-win win. You've got $5,000 worth of firms that you can go fur or you can go sell whatever else. He's got a gun that he can actually use. And so you don't have to necessarily say, okay, I'm doing a good deal because I'm giving him a $20,000 painting. No, you're not, right? So find out, and this goes back to really putting yourself in your customer shoes, right? With the apartment complexes. Who are our tenants? Are the people that play tennis? Do they need gold tile rods? No, they don't, right? They want the English as a second language. They want the bookmobile. They want Taco Tuesday. They want a safe place that can have their kids. That's a true win for them. And I can do that and spend a lot less money than putting gold tile rods in. See what I mean? And it's a true win for them. And so that's really the litmus test is saying, okay, if I can truly put myself in your shoes as my investor, as my employee, as my tenant, as my customer, put myself in your shoes, and feel it from a heart standpoint. What is it that you really need? And how can I create value for you in your life in this transaction? That's a true win. Last last question on on on on this part of your life, because I think it's again fascinating how you look at all these different commercial problems that entrepreneurs are trying to solve for. What in this win-win-win abundance mindset environment? What's your view on competition? I think competition is healthy. I really do. Now, I don't play in a competitive world. I play on a creative plane because so many people are like, okay, I've got to crush my competition to get ahead. And understand that as long as that competition is healthy and it's encouraging you to play on a competitive on a creative plane, then that's good. If it's tied to fear, if it's tied to hatred, tied to crushing others and whatever else, then that's not healthy. However, these are the kind of things that motivate us to be the best that we can be to create something of value. And it doesn't have to be in a place where we're crushing others. I like to use this example in playing on a creative plane instead of a competitive plane. So there's an island. There's 10 families on this island. And there's 10 men and they go, they go fishing every day to get enough fish for their family. And they're competing. I caught three fish today. I caught two. I only got one there. That's great. You know, that's motivating them. But then two of the guys start thinking on a creative plane outside of this whole competition thing. They're like, okay, what can we do to make this easier and better for everybody? And those two guys come up with this idea of a net. And so at night, when everybody else is watching the fire and everything else, they're out there with their wives. They're so in this net. And sure enough, this thing works. They go and they catch enough fish for the entire island. Now, the problem we have at this point is 80% unemployment, right? Because how do you guys, the catfish? That's what they do, right? A dysfunctional system would either have these guys try to compete and make a better net or a dysfunctional system would tax those two men 80% of their fish. A well-functioning system would encourage those other eight men to do things like one would get better at building boats and one would get better at building huts and one would get better at educating the children. And lifestyle as a whole for the entire island increases because of the creativity of those two guys that put together the net. Today, we live in a world just like that. And yes, if you consider that competition of saying, hey, how can we create a better Maustrap? How can we create a better net away to fish? Then that's super healthy because we're in this world of expansion and creation. But understand that if you, if somebody moves your cheese, if you ever read that book, who moved my cheese, right? If something happens in your industry where somebody creates a net and your job is no longer needed, understand that that's the world that we live. And you can think on a creative plane and say, how can I continue to add value to the world in a way where I can have financial security for my family coming back to me because of the value that I'm adding? Now, as you all know, the success story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network. They have incredible podcasts. So please go check out the roster. But one of my favorite shows is Nudge hosted by Phil Agnew. You just have to understand that some of the smallest changes can have the biggest impacts on your life and on Nudge. This is what Phil goes through. He speaks about evidence, back tips to help you kick bad habits, get a raise, grow a business. Every single episode is bite sized. 20 minutes comes packed with practical advice from some of the most prolific entrepreneurs, behavioral scientists in the world. And it's the UK's fastest growing business podcast. I definitely recommend you go check it out. You should listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts. I love this. And the last, the last piece I guess is really good to understand once you've built this empire, how do you transition into the next phase of your life? Walk me through exiting, exiting bridge investment. Walk me through that point when you've achieved what most people can only hope to achieve. And you're trying to find what to do next. And I know now you have again, on your website, you have a 30, 35, 40 different things that you've done since then. But there's obviously a point in your life where you, you know, you're like, listen, this is great. I've excelled professionally. There's a lot more that I have to do with my time on earth to sort of give back and to fulfill the thing that I wanted to, you know, do from the very beginning. So what does that point in your life look like? Well, I'll say this. That decision actually came decades ago way well before I started bridge and in a commitment that I made to myself and to the universe that, that a large percentage of my time and my money would go to charity would, would go to making a significant impact in the lives of others. Now the work that I did in the value I put together from a business standpoint was all impact investing. It was creating value in the lives of others and having that value come back. But I also realized that there are things that aren't going to create any financial gain. This can't be an impact investment. Instead, there are people out there who really need things that I can offer them to help them live a peaceful life. And for me, I decided a long time ago. I wasn't given a whole bunch of money to guys on the side of the road that were asking me for drug money. That just didn't feel right. But a nine-year-old child in a position completely outside of any decisions that she made, that was valuable. And so I served on a lot of different charities. I helped out with one life at a time and the Make-A-Wish Foundation and the Ronald Donald House and all these child-related charities. In fact, I was seven years on the Board of Directors for Make-A-Wish here in actually in Utah. And then I got a call from our attorney general. He said, Paul, he said, I know you've donated a lot of money to child-related charities. He said, I have a Homeland Security agent that has found a bunch of children in Cartagena, Colombia that are being sold. I said, sold like what do you mean sold? He said, these are kidnapped and trafficked children. These are children that are being sold for organ harvesting, sex trafficking. Or I said, are you kidding me? That happens. He said, yeah, this is the fastest growing criminal enterprise in the world. And good people don't even know that it's happening. He said, there's more today than, I'm not talking about just children being abused at home, which we talk about separately. Sold human beings, there's more today than all 300 years of the transatlantic slave trade put together. And so they needed $50,000 to help rescue these kids. It's like 20 of them. I helped to fund that. And there's a movie coming out later this year called The Sound of Freedom. And Jim Kavisal, he plays Jesus, Passion of the Christ, Count of Monte Cristo. Jim plays the part of the Homeland Security agent who recruited me. The actor who plays me is the producer of the film. His name is Eduardo Varaste, he plays a part of the multi-billion dollar fund manager who quits his job to go help rescue kids. And it's a beautiful, beautiful story about the identification or rescue of these kids. And it follows this story of the largest child rescue in history, 127 children in one day that we rescued in Colombia about 10 years ago. And that is, I had gotten to the point in the fund where my equity as the founder and owner was earning me way more money than my salary was. And I had a lot smarter people than me that we had hired that we had put on, that we're raising money and putting things together. And I decided, you know what? I'm sad. I don't need another $100 million. I have enough to make a massive impact in the world. And my time and skill sets, I have a special set of skills for a previous life that makes me somewhat safe in a dangerous place, got me to the point where they actually recruited me to lead the undercover rescue missions of these children. And in the last 10 years, I have been a part of or led over 70 undercover rescue missions in 15 countries. And through our foundation, the child liberation foundation and others that we have helped to fund and get started over 5,000 victims have been rescued and returned to their family and hundreds of bad guys are in prison today. And I was completely off grid for 10 years. My first podcast was two months ago in talking about these issues. And that's why I'm here with you today is because finally, I'm like, you know what? My voice, my experience can inspire entrepreneurs to go build their companies and create a value in the world. But my experience in being in the pit of hell and pulling these children out and getting them back to their families is something that I believe that I can use that experience to not only liberate a tenure from the clutches of a trafficker in Ecuador, but I can help liberate humanity and the negativity that is holding us back and the things that are actually driving that demand for something that horrible. And so that's the reason I have stepped out of the undercover work and plus the movie coming out, etc. I'm not going to be easy to undercover along anyway. And so because of that, my my goal now is is in liberating humanity as a whole from what is holding them down in this negative low vibration energy that is creating generational trauma that is holding us back from real ascension and being happy like we could. What fuels child trafficking? What are the things in the West that fuel is it? Is it prostitution? Is it what fuels it? Because you mentioned a couple other very dark things like organ harvesting and whatnot. But I know I know that the sex trafficking obviously is a major issue too. I don't know much about the organ harvesting and all the other horrible atrocities. Sex trafficking is the biggest. There's there's a approximately 10 million children today in sexual slavery. Average age is a 12 years old that they're brought into this horrible situation, right? This is in the US and globally. The US has major issues. The US is the number one producer and consumer of child of child pornography. And the reason I was recruited to help lead these these undercover rescue missions is that the majority of demand for something this horrible for going down to Columbia to be with a 12 year old. The majority of that demand in second and third world countries comes from wealthy, connected, well-spoken business man in first world countries. That's where it's coming from. And it's biggie goes and for a long time so to answer your question and this is super important and this is the reason why I made this massive transition. You know we talked about that transition point I made when I was a kid and the biggest transition of my life happened within the last four or five months. And here's what it was. 10 years ago on my first undercover rescue I'm sitting in this chair. These traffickers had brought in all of these children. They bring out this 11 year old girl standing up. She's not much taller than I was as I was sitting down and she was shaking and she had fear in her eyes that she was looking at me and I couldn't blow my cover. Every cell in my body wanted to just say hey you're going to be fine you're going to see your parents again. I couldn't say that and I made a commitment to myself and to God and the universe and the whole world that day that I would do everything in my power to eradicate that evil from the face of the earth. And when I was told that my skill sets with my background could do well and leading undercover rescue missions that's what I did and I did that for 10 years. Back then there was approximately 8 million children being sold. Today that number is somewhere closer to 10 million. So I asked myself if my goal is to eradicate this then I'm not doing a very good job doing undercover rescues and pulling 20 children out of the time. I have to figure out how to solve the demand because what was happening is we were pulling 20 children out of hell and it would leave a vacuum and 20 more children would be getting sucked in to supply the demand. So I stepped back and said okay where is this demand coming from? Is it just hardcore pornography addiction where somebody you know they get addicted they need something harder to have that same fix and pretty soon they go down this dark road and for some of them that dark road it with is something younger and younger and pretty soon they're fantasizing about something they wouldn't even thought was attracted five years ago. I thought that maybe where it was coming from is you know and any time that you take a divine feminine a woman from a divine feminine to an object you start going down a dark road right and so I thought that's where a big part of it was coming from. I realized that even that is a symptom of a deeper problem okay this symptom this deeper problem is this yes there's 10 million children being sold but that's a tiny number compared to where it's all coming from there's over a billion women on this planet who were a victim of sexual violence as a child most of them in their own home one out of every four women now the number of men is lower it's about one out of every five about 20 percent of men have been a victim of sexual violence and one fourth of them literally 200 million men it was under the age of 10 years old so what's happening is this it's generational trauma that is not even being talked about and some of it comes out in somebody no God bless them many people they grow up and they figure out their crap right and they're a good dad and they're a good husband they're a good mother and they're able to work through that the average person who's experienced that kind of a trauma as a child the average person is 52 years old before they remember or before they talked about it they've raised their children they've gone their their career now and some of them hold it in with low self esteem others get through it others unfortunately grow up to be contact offenders right where they're either verbal abuse because they're dealing with this trauma or physical abuse or sexual abuse and each one person that grows up that is a contact defender in that way is going to abuse a large number of children and they're going to be the ones that are that are being drawn to go to a third world country and do some of these horrible things and so what's the difference I also want to know just sorry before we move off that before you move off that point what what is the difference between somebody that becomes a contact defender and somebody that just deals with their shit choice it's choice it's a choice of okay do I do I take that situation that happened to me as a child and use it like I did when I was beat up and you know and called names everything else use that as a motivation to lead with compassion to lead with love to to put myself in the shoes of others or I'm going to take that and be hateful and vengeful to the world because of what they said to me right and so it's the same thing that happens is people move through their life they they have a choice they have a choice of whether they pass on that trauma to others or whether they work through it now there are tools that can help people shed that trauma in a in a very quick matter if they want to in fact that's why we're here in Mexico right now is we're looking for places to build some healing retreats that will be fully transformational experiences there there are there are some doctors that we work with in in Peru and others that have these healing retreats that people come in for two or three weeks that are hardcore addicted to cocaine to heroin things like this and in three or four weeks can help them completely get over that addiction with with without any any reactions later without any you know all the other crap that comes when you're trying to shed something like that so there are some holistic tools that you can work with that we can give people a 48 hour experience or a four day experience and literally transform their life in a way that 20 years worth of therapy couldn't do and so that's some of the things that we're working on right now but but and I'm putting together tools I bought liberate dash humanity dot com and dot that liberate humanity within the next month we're going to have a whole bunch of tools on there different programs that people can use that they can download that can help them change their perceptions of themselves it's the exact same tools that we help people overcome anxiety depression are things that we can help people overcome that childhood trauma and not defining themselves by what happened to them and change how what their self-talk when they look in the mirror and they can shed that negativity and come into a place of healing and light and and move forward into a place where they can have a positive impact in the lives of others so that's that's my big mission I believe we can save millions of children by starting from a place of compassion not compassion for these guys who have already heard a child you know they need to go to prison right but what if we could capture that group before they ever pass that trauma on and we could help them heal before that trauma is ever passed on in any way in angry issues in physical verbal abuse anything what if we could help them heal we could literally heal the world in less than one generation and this is how this I understand us this is how we actually solve the problem because again the undercover missions you're never going to be able to bring 8 to 10 million plus people through undercover missions out of you know save 10 million people it's impossible you have to solve for you have to solve for demand yeah you have to solve for demand absolutely otherwise it's aggressive we can rescue all eight million of them today and you would have in a year from now they would be back yet a bunch of other kids being traumatized in the same way because we haven't fixed the demand can I can I ask and then you know we didn't really prefer this so you you be as candid or as or if you don't want to go into it that's fine but but how did you deal with these undercover situations I really want to understand how how you went through this what it entailed just like the experiences as as respectful as as you can be with this conversation because I think I think it's a conversation that has to happen and I think that you living it and being part of these undercover operations maybe paint a picture for what happens in these situations and what these children go through and and and hopefully we can you know sort of make the point hit home even more so than it probably already does because you've you've literally had these experiences that many people obviously do not have or or outside of watching a movie would never have known about I'll I'll answer with the story there's there's a there's a documentary out called Operation Tucson Tucson is the name of the airport in Port of Prince Haiti and at the time of the filming of this I was still running undercover and so the majority of it was following Tim the Homeland Security agent who recruited us etc but my team was the one that was on the ground in Haiti many many times to connect with the trafficking ring that that that documentary showed the rescue of those kids and and so we were physically there and and in finding these kids the first thing I need you to understand is this this isn't a religious conversation but I need you to know that I believe in God right most people believe in a supreme being some people call them Aula or the universe or whatever got us or Jehovah whatever it is God exists and cares more about these children than you and I ever could and knows exactly where they are so the first night when I went into Haiti and finding these kids it was about two in the morning was a bunch of Navy SEALs, Green Berets they're all you know big muscles cat it up and earrings and whatever else and I said guys I said can I take a lead are you good with that and they're like yeah Tim said you're really good at this I'll see what you do I said okay good first things first I need you to understand that how I see fear and faith most people think that faith is going to church and asking God to fix things in their life that they don't believe we're going to be fixed I said that's that's not faith is it is that principle of power it's the most powerful law in the universe and it's simply this it's the unwavering conviction that what I want to have happened will happen it's that that power of the mind that we learn from the Brian Tracy tapes etc right I said I've used this to create everything in my financial career and especially in finding these kids I said it's difficult for people to have unwavering faith or unwavering conviction about anything should I start this new company should I marry this woman should I move to this new city because they don't know if it's in line with what God wants or whatever for me when I was doing the undercover work it was very easy to have unwavering conviction that if there's a higher power in the universe that higher power is not okay with these children being raped here yet so it was easy for me to tune into that energy and so what I would do is is focus on that and listen not not following logic and protocol I would listen from a heart standpoint right and I say okay dry just dry okay stop right there he says that motorcycle getting guy then yeah yeah that he's what are you going to do I said that guy knows something I can feel it he said this is a really dangerous area we need to survey the area first I said no I said we don't have time for that he's going to be gone now this is the darkest most voodoo invested place on the planet at the time murder capital the western hemisphere super dangerous two in the morning right and I said guys you need to stay in the van you're going to intimidate him and the navy seals like he's like are you stupid Paul I said list I don't have two weeks to find kids I'll buy you pink panties when we get home that guy knows something I get out and I walk out and this guy pulls up his shirt there's a gun that's sticking in his in his pass and I'm just listening I pull out a hundred dollar bill and I hand it to him this is what's that for I said that's for you to keep it I got more for you if you can help me with something I got a friend he's going to be here over in the next few weeks Super Bowl Sunday we're going to have a party and he likes 10 year olds you give me in touch with somebody who has what he's looking for and sure enough bone he gets me in touch we climb our way up and we get to what I call a level three trafficker this level three trafficker is one who physically holds the children in captivity it happened to be a female her name was Cho and she sticks this key we're in this dark dangerous there's this door it's it's seven feet tall and about four feet wide and it's a steel red door she's no windows or anything else on this building sticks a key in this door opens it up and I see this dirt hallway and dimly lit lights with some cobwebs on the lights and multiple cell doors down the left hand side cell doors right and with no windows or any access she sticks a key and one of these cell doors opens it up it's about this way and in this little teeny room dirt floor concrete walls no window no lights is a steel it's not even a bed it's a steel plank that's held to the wall with the with the chains you can fold it up right and there's a dingy little dirty blanket that was sitting on that and to the left of that was this little girl now in the movie in the the operation she saw she's at the end she's holding a teddy bear she was 14 she was taken when she was seven her parents were killed in the earthquake nobody knew she was alive the traffickers took her with a bunch of other children and for seven years she was sold 20 or 30 times a day to men who would rape her and she's sitting on this concrete block on the dirt in this cell looks up at me with this blank look in her eyes like this happens every day there's multiple doors with other children there at the end of this hallway there was this this queen size mattress where they unthinkable would happen that little girl didn't speak for two weeks after we rescue her her very first words that she said where I didn't think anybody would come she had given up hopes seven years before nobody knew she was even alive we were able to find their family your extended family she went back to school learning to dance every one of these children has that story and and they're held in the most awful places that you can possibly imagine and the only way we're going to fix it is to figure out how to heal humanity we've got to figure out how to change how we see each other when I can look at you as my brother like really truly like we're energetically connection heart to heart to heart and when you can look at a woman as the divine feminine that she is and respect her for that and and not let thousands of years of dogma make you believe in any shape or form that that woman is any lower in any way than a man period right these are all kinds of things that are creating this negative low vibration energy and how we perceive each other and how we perceive sexuality and and how we how we exchange energy between each other we would never ever do that to a child if we really understood who we were as as divine sons and daughters of God and the connection we have with each other and with the universe and that energetic tide all things it wouldn't even cross our minds and we would let go of that generational trauma before we pass it on to another your the ability the fact that you were able to do this because I'm assuming when you when you encounter these children there's a period of time before you can actually go in and rescue them because you have to maintain undercover for it and I can only imagine how difficult like walking out of that situation is knowing that she may not be saved for another I don't even know seven days month what I don't know what the logistics of these operations are but you must I don't know how anybody does that I mean I know people do it to save you know I know people so that I can sleep at night I will I'll usually tell especially if they're virgins I'll give the trafficker extra money I'll say listen if I'm giving you money right now extra to ensure she is not touch not once between now and the part you understand not once right and same thing with some of the other ones and we try to identify where they are pull them out as soon as possible and and I I was on one off I just break I just break down I just like I think a lot of people would just break down normal people would just not be able to keep their shit together in a situation like that I was in one off where I was sitting across this table with the with the traffickers and I had a I had a navy seal that was standing behind me big dude and good huge heart and the trafficker he leans forward and goes Pablo he said I have a gift for you I said really what's your gift and he shows me his phone and there's that 11-year-old girl on his phone he said this is princess she's still a virgin we just took delivery of some she's my gift for you for this party and he started talking about some really dark things he said if you ever met with a virgin you know all this I boy he started talking about horrible things you did this little girl and the navy seal that was behind me he's like I got it go you know check the perimeter yeah because the the traffickers knew that he was my bodyguard I'm like yeah he's my body he's my show bodyguard my real bodyguard right so they're like they're you know they've got bodyguards I've got I don't know he's a navy seal they think he's like a bodyguard to some asshole who's going down to yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah these are big ego guys that have gotten navy seals that are their bodyguards and whatever else so he is there behind me he took a walk around the restaurant when we were deep right briefing later that night he said he said when that trafficker gave Paul the phone and that little girl on there that 11 year old he said she looked like my daughter at home he says I was that close to taking out my weapon and ending it right there he said but if I if I did that we would have 50 plus children we wouldn't know where they are yeah so yeah it's hard it's dark I've been into the darkest recesses of this planet seeing that kind of thing and it is motivated me like no other to figure out how to fix this problem you know I was looking up stats before this interview and I read a very a very depressing one because people are going to be listening to this and saying okay there's a problem with with some some really fucked up people in the US that go to these countries to for sexual tourism and there's also a problem in some of these countries where of course I think there's like 426 million children living conflict zones and that's where they're most likely to be abducted from but I read a stat in 2020 35 states reported not and this is obviously dated but I'm sure they're still stats we can find 35 US states reported 953 victims of sex trafficking from child welfare systems so that's stateside government agencies or or or representatives or people that are involved in the child welfare system basically giving up children in the US to sex trafficking so it's not a over there problem well and here's the thing you know that the open border shouldn't be a left or right issue the open border should be a trafficking conversation because that's really what's happening there and there are millions of victims that are being trafficked across the border in fact here in the US there's they've estimated somewhere between 250,000 and 400,000 children average age of 12 years old that are in sex trafficking in the US and you're exactly right the problem is is in a broken system when it comes to the the children that are being controlled by the state in some way you know in the foster programs things like that we need a better system there and and of course we need to take away that demand but their children all over the world that are suffering in the same situation in fact here in the US you know we talk about where that demand is coming from and and the challenges from even a pornography standpoint we had a company we worked with that had a piece of software this software would go into the dark web people thinking that they're anonymous on in the dark web right went into the dark web and was identifying the global identifier numbers of individual computers that were downloading child rape videos okay now here's a scary number in one month in the United States it identified 800,000 unique individuals who had downloaded a child rape video that's a huge number if you figure there's three or fifty million people in this country maybe a hundred million men that are over you know 20 plus years old whatever and and that's our demographic there then that's a million what out of every 100 in any room you go in actually not just was downloading child porn we're talking child rape videos that's a massive number right so it goes back to the whole thing we got a broken system where people and their perception of themselves and sexuality as a whole and their childhood trauma and all of these things are contributing factors that if we don't figure out how to heal humanity this problem will continue to be worse and worse every year I want to I want to sort of give you the floor to and any last sort of words on this piece before before we sort of move on from this a super heavy topic but I just want to say any any questions that I first of all thank you for for doing this all really I think it's incredible work obviously but are there any questions that I should have asked you about this or anything that we didn't go into that I think that's specifically I will say this there's such a beautiful light at the end of the tunnel this doesn't have to be dark you know sometimes I got to share the darkness so I can say okay now let's talk about this let's talk about what needs to happen to change to really help people move forward the the movie the sound of freedom the reason we named it that is that the most beautiful sound that I ever heard was after the ages came and stormed the party and arrested everybody and the child protective services people came in with the children and they started laughing and singing with the children and that sound of freedom was the most beautiful sound that I ever heard I started crying I turned to Sean and I said for I said I I've spent my whole life making rich people richer I want to make a difference what do you need and that's when he said Paul he said the majority of demand for things like this comes from guys who are wealthy business owners he said I can't teach my Navy SEALs had aware of $50,000 watching that $4,000 suit and negotiate a multi-million dollar deal he said I've never found an ultra successful business owner who's had the training that you've had he said if you're willing to be the bait I'll change your whole life and and that was that was the beginning and the most beautiful experiences of my life have been the rescue of these kids and seeing them return to their families or finding adopted families for these kids etc so there is a beautiful light at the end but here's something important as well from a pure compassion standpoint people ask me a lot they say Paul how can you go face to face with somebody selling you an eight-year-old and have not have them see the anger and the hatred in your eyes and my answer surprises them I say it's because I love them yeah love them they're selling a child no I love the innocence of that child more and I'm going to do everything in my power to ensure they never heard another child again but I've realized that if I'm ever ever judging another human being whether that's for cutting me off on the freeway or cutting me out of a business deal or or selling me a child if I'm ever judging another human being there's a 100 percent chance that I don't have enough information to make that full judgment I don't know I don't know if that guy cutting me off on the freeway if his daughters in the hospital I don't know if that guy cutting me out of a business deal if he's just really broken inside I don't know if that guy selling me a child if he was raped as a child he probably was and there was probably a thousand bad things that happened to him and a thousand bad decisions he made to get him to the point where he thought that that was okay just sell that child and again I'm going to do everything in my power to ensure he never heard some other child again but I can do so from a place of love and compassion I can ensure he's behind bars from a place of love and compassion and I can hope and pray that that trafficker can find some redemption that they can learn the darkness of their ways and get to a point where they can heal and it may take 10 or 20 years but when we can start looking at every person on the planet from that degree of compassion especially the people who have dealt with massive childhood trauma themselves who haven't passed that on to somebody else yet better holding that pain if we can love them and help them heal before they become contact defenders that's how we face the problem I love this okay where can people reach out to you where can people go to connect and learn more where do you want to send people yeah for a long time I have Paul Hutchinson official but that's too long to write you can you can type in soul healer 007.com and that'll take you there but our new Instagram and everything else and the new website is liberate.humanity liberate.humanity and then the liberate-humanity.org.com will be the websites coming on soon that'll have a lot of tools that people could use to heal I have a book coming out soon called are you listening not are you listening with my hand on my ear but are you listening with my hand on my heart talking about using the power of divine guidance that all of us have in building companies and finding the children etc you can also go and support the foundation you can go to you can just google child liberation foundation you can go to liberate a child.org or liberatechildren.org and I love the word liberate I like liberate a child liberate humanity and liberate children because that's really what's about it is is creating that liberation for all people from ourselves from our paths from a chapter whatever it is if we can help people liberate themselves we can transform humanity last question I ask everybody this you've had incredible success with the variety of things that you've done over your life and your career at this point in your life how do you define success I have a quote on my wall when I was a child when I was a child when I was a teenager I had a bunch of Ferraris and Lamborghinis and I had a quote that said he had the most toys wins right I now have one that says he was a powerful positive impact in the most lives wins that's what it's about that's what true successes and you can make money while having a powerful positive impact in the lives of others