Neil Patel - Entrepreneur & Digital Marketing Expert | Building A $100,000,000 Marketing Agency

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She just never judge a book by his cover because never assume the worst case from people. What does it take to dominate the digital marketing world? Today's guest knows firsthand. From hustling as a teen entrepreneur to building multi-million dollar companies like Crazy Egg, Kissmetrix and Neil Patel Digital, he's shaped how businesses approach SEO and content marketing. What's the right strategy at the right point for the entrepreneur from zero to a hundred million? The person is usually great at building from zero to ten million revenue is usually not the person from 10 to a hundred and beyond. You've got to find the right person for the right job. Forbes calls him a top 10 online marketer. Millions read his blog. His tools like Uber Suggest are industry staples. But beyond the accolades, he's a relentless innovator, navigating the future of marketing in an AI-driven world. In life in general, if you focus on what you're doing and you enjoy it, you're great. Whatever time you live, you can put in 110% into whatever you're doing and what you love. You're better off than living a miserable 70 years and not doing what you love. Do what makes you happy because I spent my life going after money and business just makes me happy. How do you build a brand that lasts and what's next for digital marketing? Let's find out. Welcome to success story. I'm your host, Scott Clary. The success story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network. HubSpot not only supports this show, but they support entrepreneurs. That's why it's such a huge fan of HubSpot. And I'm very grateful for HubSpot for supporting the show because they help entrepreneurs. And as a fellow entrepreneur, I know it takes a lot to grow your business, a lot of audience attracting, a lot of sales, a lot of marketing, a lot of leads for it, a lot of channel management, a lot of content, a lot of long days, late nights, a lot of weekends, a lot of wishing there wasn't easier way. But there is. With Breeze, this is HubSpot's new collection of AI tools. It's easier than ever for marketers, for entrepreneurs to attract audiences, to increase leads, to score customers, and to close deals fast, which means pretty soon, your company will have a lot to celebrate. Visit HubSpot.com slash marketers to learn more. Neil, you've been in this game for almost 20 years, over 20 years now. So I think the most obvious question, because people have seen your content, they know your origin story. What's keeping you in the game 20 years later? Love, I truly enjoy what I'm doing. You know, if I've had a pick one thing, if you love what you're doing and you enjoy it, you'll keep doing it. If you don't, then you're going to move on to something else. When I look at most people who have been doing something for a long time, it's never in the money. It's usually their passionate, almost always the number one answer is that they're passionate, and they just are on this mission, and they're just trying to do it because they don't know anything else. They rather spend their time on it. I mean, you've gone through so many different iterations of types of businesses. What's one thing that you look for in like a signal or a barometer of whether or not you love something because you've gone through software, you've gone through agency, you've done multiple acquisitions. What's the thing that is like, yes, I want to spend my time on this. I think you also spend at least in your past life a lot of your time on sort of one project at a time. Yeah, I tend to just do one project at a time. I tend not to do multiple projects, and the reason for that is if you don't have the focus, you're never going to do well. There's not enough time in the day for one project. I don't know how people do two or three or four, and the common response always get back as well. Look at Elon Musk, and I hate to say this, and I'm not trying to talk trash on other people, but they're not Elon Musk nor am I. That's very rare. He's a richest person, probably worth $400 plus billion. I think the last time I checked, that's not pretty much almost anyone else in the world. So don't look at him as the gold standard on what you should try to achieve. Look at him as he's anomaly, and people who tend to do well have just focused all their efforts on one business. I think that's probably, I completely agree. I think one of some of the worst advice for people starting out is to diversify, diversify income streams, diversify, like if you look at the people that, you know, the thought leaders, the people look up to yourself included, you made your money on one thing, and then once you have that asset built, then you can move on to the next thing, but then you can, but I think it's like the laser focus that is required to be successful, because if you don't have that, I mean entrepreneurship is hard enough without laser focus. Here's a kicker for you, right? Who do you think the richest person in the world should have been right now in today's world? Who the richest person should have been? Uh-huh. I don't know. I'm thinking of like a Warren Buffett, or what's what's the name you're going to drop? Bill Gates. He should have been the world's first trainer. And why is he not? He met Warren Buffett and decided to diversify, so he sold off a lot of his Microsoft holdings. Microsoft has what? A $3 trillion market cap. He owned a little bit less than half, right? He would have easily been, and then you get dilution when you give people shares and all this kind of stuff, but like, he would have been easily the world's first trainer. That's wild. So I mean, I don't think he's even after the divorce, even after the divorce, he still would have been the world's first trainer. Did you know Steve Balmer was a CEO of Microsoft and Steve Balmer has a higher network than Bill Gates owning a fraction of what he had. I didn't know he had a higher network. I didn't know, yeah, that's insane. So it's just because he didn't. And people ask Steve Balmer, he's like, I bleed Microsoft. He's like, he didn't really try to diversify by tons of businesses. I know he owns a clippers and stuff like that, but like he didn't really try diversifying or anything like that. He's just like, I just blooded Microsoft and believed in it. So I just kept my shares and didn't do a ton of other stuff. So he has a higher network for living a simpler life than Bill Gates who sold a lot of shares, created this crazy family office, did tons of other things. You know, most people also don't know this. Goldman Sachsman just Steve Balmer's money is easier for him to do that than Bill Gates building all these family offices and finding all these ventures to invest in and I can go on and on, you know, four seasons is owned by him. Like the amount of businesses he owns is ridiculous. He took the Warren Buffett playbook. And I'm not saying, you know, it's a shitty playbook. Look, I'm not rich like they are, right? Or a better way to put it is, I'm rich because it depends depends what you define rich as, but I define them as a whole differently. I call that wealthy. I'm not wealthy. I'm rich. Yeah. By a nice house, nice car, but what the league therein is, oh, I bought a sports team. It didn't work out. Let me just go buy another sports team. I'm still have so much money. It doesn't matter. I can buy five of these ten of these, you know? Yeah. No, it's interesting because even through, okay, so that's an interesting point that you made because I agree completely, but you've also made very conscious decisions throughout your life to pivot from like at one point software. So you went from software into services. Now you do acquisitions. So you do focus on different things over the course of your career. Do you not? I've only focused on the marketing industry. If you look at all my businesses, they're around marketing. If you look at even my current business, software makes it a large chunk of our revenue and profitability. Software is probably the most profitable division. We do M&A to grow the one thing. You know, yes, we have three software pieces. Two of them were acquired. Okay. So one wheelie found. And then if you look at services, a lot of the revenue was generated organically, but we're acquiring regions with other offerings and other region, we're offering or acquiring other marketing businesses and other regions with different service offerings to expand, right? You'd risk cross selling. So yeah, we're doing more, but we're doing the same stuff. It's just we found it cheaper to acquire than to build from scratch. That's really lowly different, but you still got. Okay. So you still got your, you know, you still got your blinders on. You're only focused on this one thing, but you're just growing it through all these different ways. I got it. So a huge shout out to federated computer for supporting today's episode. Let me explain why I love federated computer, why they are friends of success story. They are changing the way businesses buy software because we all need software to run our businesses. 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What would be some of the advice that you would give an entrepreneur that's starting out at all the different stages of growth? So say zero to 10 and then 10 to 100. Obviously you grow through acquisition. You grow through different product service offerings, but you didn't do that all at the beginning. So what's the right strategy at the right point for the entrepreneur on this journey from zero to 100 million? I think it's going to vary for entrepreneur to entrepreneur, but this is what I've learned. The person who's usually great at building from zero to 10 million revenues, usually not the person from 10 to 100, and then usually have a different person from 100 and beyond. If you look at our organization, my co-founder was a CEO from zero to 18, I think, I think our second year was 18 million in revenue or something like that. And he was a CEO till then. I think it was year three. He put in a president who has helped us take us to 100. I don't know if the president helped us get us all the way to 100 or not. He helped us grow in more than double and double. But I know we put in a CEO who replaced my co-founder a few years after that, right? So my co-founder is a CEO that a president and then the CEO. The CEO that we have in place, he worked one of our competitors called I Prospect. He was a president there. He was originally the CEO climbed up to be the president. And then if he stayed, I'm pretty certain he would have been the CEO. They've hit him up multiple times to try to get him back as well. And when you look at him, I think I prospect at that time, they had four or seven thousand employees. Now I'm thinking they're like 13,000 plus because we've merged in a few other companies into the fold. But he's the right person to try to take us to a billion. The question is, is will we get to a billion in my lifespan? I have no idea. And what I would say is it's very different skill sets. If I ask my CEO, like talk about entrepreneurship and starting company, he'll tell me he can do it all. I love the guy did that. He's amazing. He's way better than I am at managing companies. I would not hire him though to start a company from scratch. Even though he says he can do it, in my opinion, and I could be wrong on this, I don't think he has a personality in the fit to start something from scratch. I would bet on him all day long to scale a company in the marketing services space. Amazing at that, right? You got to find the right person for the right job. And I think that's what people really mess up on. And that's why they struggle to scale. If I had to pick the biggest lesson I've learned over my career other than picking and going after a big market, it would actually be how to hire. And hiring can solve your problem and really create growth that no matter what stage you're at. And it's really universal on what you're looking for. And that's really finding someone who's worked for multiple competitors of yours, who's continually gone promoted at both those places and been there for a while because that means those corporations find that person valuable, not that they claim they did everything, but more so the company is giving them promotions with means they're actually doing a good job. Yeah. Those are the people you tend to want to hire because they're the ones who had just come with the 10x experience to figure out how to scale you faster. I think that that's smart advice. So you know, I did ask, I asked the tactics on different stages of growth, different revenue numbers for your company. Well, how do you grow it? How do you, what's the strategy? But at the end of the day, the strategy is the people, the people figure out what you've got to do. It's the people and a lot of the people that we use this model for worked out our competitors who are doing 10, 20 million in revenue when we were smaller and they help bring a lot of that to the organization. Now, some of those people aren't with us today because they're one at the right fit in my opinion, right? They could have, they could disagree with me to scale to 100, right? So then you go and find the people who are great at scaling to 100, then you find the people who are great at scaling to doing and so forth so long. The biggest issue that people, so I love the strategy, look for people that have had promotions because then there's proof that they've actually done the job. They're not just giving you lip service and they're not just telling you that they've done it because and multiple promotions, not one promotion. There's a big difference. A lot of people get promoted once. Very few people get promoted three, four, five times, right? If they're continuing to get even promoted that many times at an organization, it means they really get out what they did. I've had a conversation with several friends, I'm sure some of them are mutual friends about people that are very good at interviewing, even at the executive levels. See, sweet levels are very good at interviewing and not much else. They bounce around between see, sweet position, a see, sweet position, which is, that's a very scary thing for a founder to understand that some people are just great at interviewing and they look good and the resume looks great. Other big companies, well-known named companies have hired this person for a period of time, but they're actually useless at their job. I think that this hiring strategy of finding some with multiple promotions, it kind of de-risks the hire a little bit. It does. You really have to find the right person for the right job and I'll give you a great example of this. I've been offered to be a CMO for publicly traded companies more times than I can recall or even count on one hand, right? I would be a terrible CMO. Just quite frankly, I'm an amazing individual contributor. I'm amazing growing organization, even if it's extremely large, with a small team. But to be a CMO of an organization that has 100 plus thousand employees or 50,000 employees, I'm not a great fit. How many people would be a marketing? I'm a terrible manager and yeah, I can put someone else underneath me. I'm just really good at just being an individual contributor and I can work with small teams of three, four, but I'm terrible just working with teams of like 300, 400, especially being in charge of them. And this is why I'm never a manager. I know that you scaled NP digital. I think it was something like to 30 or 40 million in revenue just with your own personal brand. So you actually like taking this idea of being an individual contributor to an extreme because you built your business just on your name. But is that, do you think that the comment rate in entrepreneurship with entrepreneurs, they're very good at, they're very good at getting things off the ground, but they're really bad at managing people. If you look at like the psychological profile of a great entrepreneur, no, I wouldn't say that's common. I wouldn't also say that's uncommon. I would say what's more common is the entrepreneurs usually get out one or two things and they just usually excel at one or two things. And they're just exceptionally good at that. The ones that are successful and they just double down on it. I just want to take a quick break and thank the HubSpot podcast network for supporting success story for the past two years. Now the HubSpot podcast network has other incredible podcasts like my first million now. 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I took it over for the whole organization. When I'm saying I took over marketing, I took over marketing for the company, not our customers, our company. And we're running paid ads for our own business. So I was running paid ads and we have a big internal team and we also use contractors when we need to use contractors. And you know, one of my partners, Nick Roshan, was this like, dude, you would be the type of customer that would just have a lot of red flags and we would not want. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, so Solo who works on the marketing, worked for the contractor in Brazil who just whips something up in the same day. And he tested out some Facebook ads for me. He's just like, he got him up on Friday. You fired him by Saturday because I knew it wasn't going to work based on the early results. And then he's like, you already hired another contractor by Saturday morning. And you had new campaigns up and running by Saturday afternoon. He's just like, you just have unrealistic expectations, right? And by Sunday, I recorded new ads like in a studio, like professional ads, film crew, scripts, teleprompters, lighting the whole Shabang. They already started getting edited by Sunday night. By Monday, the campaigns were up. And I didn't just record one or two ads. I think I recorded like, I don't know, 13, 14 different ads. And they were up pretty much within 24 hours of me recording them. And I go in and I get involved in the campaigns and I adjust them myself if I need to. But I just expect the world and I expect people to move on my timetable, which is seven days a week. And I don't care if it's a holiday. If I don't have the people working directly underneath me that just gel with me culturally and are willing to do whatever I want when I want, it just doesn't work. I think I don't have this Monday through Friday, 9 a.m. or 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. like, this is not how I operate. You know, like I will message team members on the weekends. And I probably message them at the same frequency on the weekends, sometimes more than the weekdays because I have more time myself. And I expect my changes and the requests to be fulfilled right than in there, even if it's unrealistic. I know that a lot of people, a lot of great entrepreneurs move fast. Like speed is everything. I think a lot of entrepreneurs I work with think the same way as you, but it's not easy to find people that are on board with that in terms of like hiring. And so we're talking about hiring executives and people at the C-suite. How do you find people that are disinvolved in your mission that they actually want to respond on the weekend and they don't just turn and move on to another company that doesn't ask them to do that? It's really easy. When you interview them, you tell them they have to be a player coach. So if they're not the ones who can manage people's greatest requirement, but two, you got to get in the trenches and get dirty yourself and actually do the work. And the third thing is I tell them I expect people to work 24-7. And I'm very realistic in the interview. And I'm like, if you're not going to work 24-7, this is going to work out. The fourth thing is is I tell them I'm going to compensate you really well and I'll give you a percentage of the profits. So we have a profit sharing pool. And if you're amazing and you can crank and kill it for us, you'll get hooked up. If not, this isn't going to work out. I'm just super direct because that way you don't waste time. Yeah. I think a lot of people like I think both sides bullshit a lot of a lot of the time in the interview. They both bullshit. So the employees bullshitting about what they can do and what they want and how they want to work. And then the hiring person's bullshitting about what the job actually requires. And then you create this resentment and then you imitate it. And it doesn't work. And I tell people like if this isn't work, I'm going to lay you off right away. Like you only last a week or two before I just fire you. Yeah. Right? Like I'm just super direct and it rubs a lot of people the wrong way. And so be it. Yeah. But then you find the right people. You find the right people. Some of the other things that I've learned too from my previous ventures that helped me with this one is I didn't understand the concept of a tam early on in my career. And I remember when I used to raise venture capital, everyone would be like, what's the market opportunity? So you just paint this picture. There's an amazing big opportunity to try to do research and you find the stats and data that back up your viewpoint. So that way you can raise money. And I never understood the concept of just going after a really, really massive market because when you go after a really massive market, if you take a fraction of it, you know, a fraction of a percent, you're still making crop load of money. And I remember I was meeting up with this private equity guy named Michael Delaney who was trying to buy our company. And you know, I wasn't really interested in selling and I was pretty direct with him. He flew to Vegas anyways. And he pretty much told me during the meeting. He's like, you know, the marketing space is like a really big punch bowl. You go to the party. It's big enough where it doesn't matter how many people show up, everyone's going to get drunk because it's just big enough. And over time, you know, I really understood the concept of going after a big market because you're putting a lot of effort whether you're going after a niche or a big market, might as well go after a big market because it just makes more money. And I would say the last big learning that's helped me with this organization versus my previous ones is churn as a killer in businesses. The more you churn, the worse you're going to be, I'm a B2B entrepreneur. I learned that in this space, if you go after RFPs, which is a request for proposals and you go after the enterprise, it takes a lot longer to get the business, but they stick around a much longer. So I focus on that because it's what I understand and what I'm good at, right? Like B2B sales and marketing, going after enterprise, don't sell the consumers. And it's okay to take longer to get revenue, especially if you can keep it for a very long time. When you, a couple of thoughts, those are all great lessons, a couple of thoughts. So for RFPs, that's a really important point. One thing that I've experienced with my background is also in B2B. If you win an RFP, you actually become the incumbent and you can actually help the company write RFPs going forward. And that can actually really play to your favor. Some companies are so big that they're required to get like two, three responses. But if you can write the RFP yourself, I mean, you're already like 70, 80% of the way they're to winning it. And that's something I've seen. Yeah. We've never been able to write RFP. And most of companies we work with when they issue out of RFP, they send it out to like 10, 12 corporations. And it's in their mandate that they have to pitch, you know, like more than five or six. So it's a longer shop to close the deals, but we're okay with it. Yeah. I think I've seen it in tech before, where it's not explicitly like writing the RFP, but the person that you sold to a year ago was like, hey, what would be, what would be your solution if you were going to do this? And then sometimes your solution is so unique. In marketing, it's probably a little bit, it's a little bit more of a commodity than some very, very unique tech solutions to a degree. But if the solution's so unique and no one else can really do it, then the RFP is asking for something only one company or two companies in the world can do. Then you have a pretty damn good shot of winning that, winning that RFP. You mentioned something else though that I think is really interesting. So you go after large tabs. I know you spoke with us before about how tam is probably one of the more important things that you value when thinking about a new business opportunity. But obviously, then the question is, okay, so blue ocean, everything's, there's so much competition. What's the strategy to stand out when you're going after large tam blue ocean opportunity? You don't have to stand out. That's the big lesson I learned over the years. You just have to go out for big enough tam and if you don't stand out, you may not win the majority of the market base, still make a crap load of money if you execute well. How do you and I think we don't stand out our biggest pitches. We're independent. We're not publicly traded. We don't have investors. We do whatever we want when we want. No one tells us what to do and we, this allows us to over service the client and over deliver in. We're winning a lot more awards than most our competitors. We're pushing harder on the marketing front. We're much more hand holding and personalized and we try to go above and beyond because we don't have the bureaucracy. A lot of my competitors got gobbled up by private equity and when the market turns sour a few years ago and they go, we got to cut a ton of staff. Well, we got to do this and we got to do that in the next thing, you know, they're just not doing as well because they're optimizing for debt payments. Well, I don't have those issues. How do you decide if a market's too small? We usually just go and look at other organizations within that market to see what their revenue is or industry and see if it's worth it for us. And what is smaller, big, it's all relative based on what the goal of entrepreneur is, but we're looking for a market where people spend more than a hundred billion a year because then you have a shot of making some decent money. Thank you. That's sweet for supporting today's episode. Now what does the future hold for business? If you ask nine experts, you're going to get 10 answers, bull market, bear market, inflation up, inflation down. Honestly, I just need a crystal ball. But until we get one over 41,000 businesses have found the next best thing. They future-proofed their operations with NetSuite Biorecle, which is the number one cloud ERP. Imagine having your accounting, your financial management, your inventory, your HR, all flowing together in one fluid platform. Here's what makes NetSuite different. It gives you one source of truth for your business. You get the visibility and control to make quick, confident decisions while others are guessing you're working with real-time data insights, forecasting. You're basically looking into the future of your business with actionable data. Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and helps you grab your biggest opportunities. And speaking of opportunities, they put together the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at NetSuite.com slash Scott Clary. This is the playbook for understanding how to use AI for your business. The guide is free. Go to NetSuite.com slash Scott Clary. That is NetSuite.com slash Scott Clary. If you think about sort of what your focus is on right now, I know you said that you're never going to sell NP digital. Why wouldn't say never, but I'm not planning on it. And the question is, why would you want to build something that you don't want to sell? What's the rationale? I enjoy it. I know. I get it. A lot of entrepreneurs from the get go. They just want to move speed run entrepreneurship, sell the thing, move on to the next. Yeah. And I'll be clear. There's probably a day where I'm going to end up selling it. And the reason I say that is when I'm old and my bones are broken, you know, they're breaking in a brittle and I can barely walk. There's going to be a point where like my kids or someone else isn't going to want this, right? Or the team isn't going to want to take it over or whatever it may be. It's very, it's more realistic that there's a transaction than not a transaction. When I say don't want to sell it, I'm 39. You know, I can go at least another 15, 20 years. That's what I mean when I'm not really going to sell it. Like when I'm 60, 70 years old, I don't think I'm going to care, you know, for work as much. Although my wife really disagrees with me, but I personally don't think so because you know, we've had so many offers before. And my wife says like, you think you can just retire? I'm like, yeah, I give a tire. And I remember during one of the holiday periods, you know, people are working. And I don't want to disturb them during Christmas and stuff. You know, I'm not the grinch. And we have house staff, the house staff within here either. They're sort of like mopping the floor and vacuuming and cleaning because I'm like, I don't know what else to do. My wife's like, so you think you really can retire and not work? She's like, you're going to work until you're dead. And I'm like, I don't know if that's the case, but she's probably more right than I am. One thing, one thing that I've heard is like somebody who is always looking for progress, probably very similar in terms of we always want to accomplish the next thing, as do many people that listen to this show. But one helpful strategy is to try and find progress in other parts of your life. That's the other thing too that you can do now. Sometimes the only part of your life that you're looking for progress in is your business. Yeah. I was like, I don't really have any hobbies other than business. But then that's the thing. So like when you have when you have no help around the house, we have nothing else to do, like you're just a kind of person that just needs to go do something, needs to go fix something, needs to go make something better than it was yesterday. It's a good quality, but it can also drive you crazy. If you're not careful, you got to have an outlet for that shit. Yeah. So someone asked me a question. I forgot one of this was, but it was less than a month ago. Okay. They're like, would you rather be a billionaire like with a cone head like oddly shaped head or not make as much money and have a six pack? And I don't know why they asked me this question. I'm like, is this even a serious question? And they're like, like, yeah, but we already know you're going to pick the six pack. I'm like, what are you talking about? Give me the cone head, give me billions of dollars. I'm like, what are you talking about? You know, and it's just like, like a health. I have a personal trainer. I work out five days a week. All right. And when I work out five days a week, like, I don't have a six pack or anything like that. You know, the other day, I was eating Girl Scout cookies and mixing it in with vanilla ice green, you know, to help maintain my well, it was delicious and nominal, the ice cream, you know, I was like, crushing in the them in there. And, uh, you know, I was doing that to help maintain my weight. No, I don't eat unhealthy like that every day. I actually really clean for call it, you know, 90% of my meals, 10% of meeting like trash, but it doesn't matter. I work out quite a bit five days a week for at least 45 minutes to hour each each of those sessions. I walk 10,000 steps a day. I eat clean majority of the time. Don't care for a six pack, but I work out and eat healthy and take supplements on all this kind of stuff because I want to live law, right? Because I love life. Um, but yeah, it just goes to show at the end of the day, you know, like you have goals and you don't have goals or you have goals and passions and mine is just business. And I'll give you a random tangent. You know, I have a lump on the back of my head. At first, couldn't figure out what it was, went to so many specialists, uh, did MRI CT scans and they were trying to figure out if it was cancer or not, right? Um, and I thought it was just a cis at first and went to a few people like, no, this isn't a cis, this is something else. So I remember when I was getting my MRIs back, uh, you know, the guy was supposed to tell me like, yeah, it's a cis or no, and you just cut it out and move on, right? But they're just like, the other doctors were like, no, this doesn't look like it. And one was doing like, I think it's called a sonogram, like what they put on a belly to see if they're pregnant, like, oh, this isn't look normal. So I remember the guy got me on the phone. He's like, hey, can we actually go and zoom want to show you something? Well, this isn't a quick yes or no, right? When it's not a quick yes or no, then like, oh, maybe you're something wrong. And I remember when I was going through the MRI, I was like, oh, maybe something is wrong. So I remember at that point, when it's been to MRI, I was actually, I wasn't sad or depressed or anything. I was actually kind of happy as crazy as sounds. And you know, you start thinking, is that actually something wrong or not? Because you have to, I keep in mind at this point, I've been going through for a month meeting people to try to figure out what's wrong, right? And I have a headache every single day, literally 24 seven. And I still do right now because it's not solved. And I have a problem sleeping, like I'm only sleeping a few hours a day because of it. And just putting tons of pressure on my headache and time I lay down or anything. And sort of making me think I'm like, you know, no matter what happens, I've lived a pretty good life. Good family. Don't really have tons of regrets. Did decent in business, family will be okay if I'm not around. And I'm content. Like, I literally can tap and hit me at that point that if I was going to die, it would suck. But I was like, I'm actually okay with my life. And I have to accomplish everything that I wanted to, but I gave it 100 to 10% and I'm actually okay with things. And for me, it made me realize that in life in general, that if you focus on what you're doing and you enjoy it, great. Whatever time you live, you know, you can put it in 110% into whatever you're doing and what you love. I think you're better off than living a miserable 70 years and not doing what you love. I agree with that completely. I fully agree with that. You know, Jeff Bezos is like regret minimization framework and I'm sure you've heard of that before. But it's really just that not having regrets on your deathbed. That's really what it is. I haven't heard of it, but now I have. Oh, it's a very, it's, it's really that. It's like at the end of your life or it for right now, what you're doing is you are thinking through all the things that you want to do and you're thinking about what you would regret not having have done at the end of your life. And you're just doing those things now. And he, he says that this is the reason why you started Amazon. This is the reason why he left Wall Street and he left is a very comfortable finance job because he didn't want to have regret. And I think that it's beautiful. You've already achieved that. I don't think many people achieve that. I think people are always chasing, chasing, chasing. And even if you're entrepreneurial and you build your own thing, that's what I'm talking about. You like try and speedrun and you try and build and you try and exit and then you realize that you're not fulfilled and then you're onto the next thing. And I think that you have to find what actually fulfills you. I think that you have. That's what that's why you're so content, which is a beautiful place to be. I don't think many people are there though. Yeah. And my dad asked me literally yesterday, he was over in my house and he was saying, you know, you've switched a lot of homes. I'm 39. My average whole time for a home is, I calculated the other day is roughly a year and a half. A year and a half is not a long time. And these are purchases, not rentals, right? That's a very short time. When I was like, you kept all your homes, you would have made a killing. And some of the homes were beautiful and I loved them and I wish I still had them. And he's just like, why'd you sell most of them? I told my dad. I was like, well, dad, I needed the money, especially earlier in my career. And so I had to sell the homes to use the money to do whatever I wanted in business. And I told him like, I'm very happy. I did it not because of the business grow, but I got to do what I was truly passionate about and I would do it all over again. And some of the instances I sold a home and put some of the money into my business ventures because I needed the cash at that moment. And I took losses on the home and the business venture didn't work out as well. I never were truly lost on the business side. I did lose on the home side one too many times because I just need sometimes quick transactions just to liquidate cash and dump it into the business that was gaining momentum. And it paid off for me. And even the instance where it didn't pay off the way I thought it was, I don't regret it. You know, never really cared for the home. I can have the most comfortable home or then sick as home. Don't give a crap. I rather just put it into what I love. I think a lot of people have a hard time even figuring out what that thing is that they do love. And that's why they don't take risks like that. I think risks like that. It's those are like the best entrepreneur stories where you lost on a home, put money into the business. It worked. It didn't. It doesn't matter. It's the mindset of being able to do that. I was talking to a guy. He had a massive liquor company in his startup store. I was like, I just didn't pay tax for like five or six years because I needed the cash for the business. And he just kept putting the money in. He's like, finally, yeah. Like they all got the IRS got their money. But for years, I didn't give a shit. It was like everything, every risk I could possibly take is just into the business. And I think that when you go in with that attitude, I think that it may not be the first thing that works out. But eventually, something's going to work out eventually. It's life is long. And if you have unlimited shots, it also. Yes. I think that. Yeah. Yeah. My daughter was asking me the other day. She's like, daddy, one's if something doesn't work out. And she was talking about something for her school, you know, project. She's like, one's if I do this and it doesn't work out. I'm like, well, if it doesn't work out, you're going to be in the same spot you are right now. So what do you have to lose? And I was like, keep taking your shots. And whatever works great, whatever doesn't work as a scenario, you're in the same position that you are right now. What do you really have to worry about, right? And I was trying to get her to understand the concept that you don't have much to lose. And people are afraid of like these failures. And I was like, well, if you failed on some project, where's case to go back to what you were doing, whoop, they do. And like, they're worried about perception and what people think. So I'm like, if you're worried about that, you got a bigger problem in your life than, you know, starting a business like there's something wrong with what you're doing. If you're trying to live up to other people. Yeah. And like, you know, what is the worst? You start a business. It doesn't work out. You go get a job. Yeah. And then you start a new one. Really. I mean, how entrepreneurs are so employable. And I wish that somebody understood that if they took time to start a business to figure out product sales, marketing, hiring, finance, HR, all these different skill sets. And then they're like, you know what? Didn't work out. I'm going to go work for a job. You know how many people would hire you? Probably in like a position, you know, two or three degrees higher than what you left. Because now you have the full scope of shit that you've done with your own business. And now you can help another business with, I don't know. Risk is so interesting to me. Why people don't take it. Because I think it's also very risky to stay in a job as we saw with COVID and massive layoffs. And people just having their entire lives basically pull the way from them underneath their feet after 30 years of loyalty to a company. It's wild. I totally agree with that. Is this crazy? I think we're in a world we're going to go into a whirlwind in the next year or two. What I mean by that is you're just going to see a lot of change. I'm curious to see what happens with the economy. But you're going to see a lot of change in business entrepreneurship. Mainly because of two reasons. Politically, I think the political climate is changing globally at a very rapid pace. And AI, I think those two things are going to really change our lives within the next four or five years in a drastic way. And I'm not saying for good or bad, that's for people to decide on their own. I'm just saying that's the reality, right? A big thank you to indeed for supporting success story because hiring people is one of the hardest things you're ever going to have to do as an entrepreneur as a founder as somebody who's trying to build a business. It's important to hire well and find the right person. But it takes so much time and it's so labor intensive. Because like most entrepreneurs, you have a thousand things going on and there's a good chance that you just realized your business needed to hire somebody yesterday. So how can you find that great, amazing, right fit candidate fast? It's easy. Just use indeed because you don't have to waste time struggling to get your job post seen on all these other job sites. If you're using indeed, you can just use their sponsored jobs to help you stand out and hire fast. Your post jumps right to the top of the page for relevant candidates. So you can reach out to exactly who you're looking for faster. And the results really speak for themselves. According to indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. And you know what, I love most about indeed. It really just makes hiring so fast because everything is streamlined in one place. No more juggling multiple platforms or waiting weeks for the right candidate. And how fast is indeed in the minute I've been talking to you 23 hires were made on indeed according to indeed data worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with indeed. And listeners of success story will get a 75 dollar sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash clary terms of conditions do apply. Just go to indeed.com slash clary. A huge thank you to net suite for supporting today's episode. Now what does the future hold for business? If you ask nine experts, you're going to get 10 answers bull market bear market inflation up inflation down. Honestly, at this point, you just need a crystal ball. But until we get one over 41,000 businesses have found the next best thing. They future proof their businesses, their operations with net suite by Oracle, which is the number one cloud ERP. Imagine having your accounting, your financial management, your inventory, your HR all flowing together in one fluid platform. And here's what makes net suite different. It gives you one source of truth for your business. You get the visibility and control to make quick, confident decisions while others are guessing. You're working with real time data insights forecasting. You're basically looking into the future of your business with actionable data, whether your company earns a couple million or even hundreds of millions. Net suite helps you respond to immediate challenges and helps you grab your biggest opportunities. And speaking of opportunities, they put together the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at net suite.com slash Scott clary. This is the playbook for understanding how to use AI for your business. The guide is free. That is net suite.com slash Scott clary. A shadow to Nord VPN for supporting today's episode. I have to tell you a story. So I was actually in Toronto visiting family last month. And I went to binge some of my favorite Netflix shows. I forgot. And I realized that half of my US shows weren't available in Canada. Super annoying, flipped on Nord VPN within seconds. I got access to everything. Now it's not just about watching shows. What makes Nord VPN a game changer? Really just imagine having this personal security guard for your entire digital life. With just one click, you're connected to one of their 7100 servers across 118 countries. 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What's the advice that you give to your kids, but how to navigate their life and their career? Because I know that you've made that you spoken a lot about like your success, how much money you make now, all the expenses that you, like all your expenses in your life, I find a fast thing. It's awesome that you're so candid about it. But the focus for your kids, is it about making a lot of money? Is it about happiness? Is it about fulfillment? Is it about progression? Is it about entrepreneurship? Like what do you want them to focus on? And I changed my mind on this probably multiple times a year. But if you ask me on today's world, and I change my mind on a lot of different parts of it, but I think I'm pretty certain at this point on what I want. What I want is do what makes you happy because I sent my life going after money and business just makes me happy, right? I know this sounds bad, but it really does make me happy not to spend the money. Like I drive all on to Odyssey. It's just like, you know, my watch is more expensive than damn car. I just love the damn Honda Odyssey. I think it's one of the best cars in the world. But for me, you know, if you're not doing what's happy, what's the point? And I got to do what made me happy and passionate. But on the flip side, I don't want to spoil them. And I think they need to figure out their own way in life. But here's a kicker. Okay, this is going to sound bad, but I'll just say it. If my kids are willing to live next door to me in Beverly Hills, I will buy in the house. If they want to live in New York City, and I'm living in Beverly Hills, they can app off and they can figure out how to do it on their own if they're doing whatever they love. But if they want to do what they love, and they can't afford a home in whatever city, they're screwed unless they want to live next door to me. And I know that sounds really bad, but I don't care what's a point of working so hard. If you can't see your kids get older, and then them have kids and then play with them, because at that point, you know, what's left in my life, other than family, right? At the tail end of it, you want to spend the time with them. I'm not going to work this hard and let them do whatever they want and pay for it, you know, and I don't want to pay for their lives. They should figure out on their own. But if they're willing to live next to me, because home prices are through the roof, and I don't know how the government is going to fix it, but I hope they do fix it somehow. I really don't know. I would pay for them to live in a home next to me. That's what I look as happiness, you know, drug-free, good people, trying to help others. Like those are the kind of things that we're trying to teach them. We don't give our kids toys anymore. You want a toy. Work, do chores in the house, and stuff. We give them quarters, save up enough quarters. You can buy whatever you want, assuming it's approved by the wife. But like trying to teach them responsibilities, I can't wait to tax them. My wife will not let me tax my kids on their savings, because I told them there's taxes, you know, but I'm not a lot of taxing yet. She said you can do that when they're older. But yeah, that to me would be the ideal scenario, them doing what makes them happy, and then living next door. I love that. I don't think that's bad at all. I think that, listen, I think kids try and find themselves, and they go off on their own, and then they find that they sadly have not spent enough time with their parents, and they regret it later as well, when they really should have been spending more time with their parents and their family. You know, you know, you know, it's a hill bloom. I don't know those content. I've seen these content here and there. I saw, yeah, literally this morning on Instagram with Cody Sanchez. He speaks a lot about how many times you're going to see your parents before you die. And if you actually do the math, it's like 15 times for most people in their 30s or 40s. 15 times? Yeah, because they see them once a year. They see that, and their parents say, their parents are say 70, 75, 80. You see them once a year for a holiday. But this is, this is not good, but this is the average. I know in my parents, and my wife sees her parents more than once a week. And I love it. I'm not like, oh, we should really do more. But yeah, generally speaking, what's the purpose of life, right? And I do feel bad for some of the people they can do once a year, because they can't afford to do every week or whatever it may be, right? Whatever time would be enough or not enough for them. And some people don't want to see their parents as often. But yeah, you know, I was telling a buddy of mine. I'm like, you know, what I wish they did. I had this idea for taxes. And I'm not an economist. I'm like, they should charge people like me a luxury tax for like buying nice cars. Like we have some fancy cars, right? Even if even if I don't drive them, we still own some of them. Like, you know, charge me like double for the car charge a tax for purchasing the house that we own. And then make it where like if someone makes under a hundred grand, they just pay no federal taxes or something like that. I know that's like a crazy philosophy. But I'm like, oh, then hopefully some of those people can see their parents more often or live a little bit better of a life. I like that. I like that a lot. Out of you, you obviously have a beautiful home, I think, multiple. You have beautiful cars. You do have a lot of help around the house. Just in terms of one last thought on parenting, how do you plan to keep your kids grounded so that they don't expect this and assume that this is just a handout to them. One, we don't tell them they're going to get money. Two, we live a very it's actually not normal in my role. It's normal. I keep my name in Beverly Hills. So for Beverly Hills, I live probably a normal-ish life. But when I say we live like somewhat of a normal life, my wife has a one-carat wedding ring. You know, my clothes, some of them are expensive, but like I wear like jewelry, I think it's called joggers, even to businessmen because I don't like give a crap. But like we still cook. My kids help cook. They help clean. We have family dinners all the time. We go to the library at least once a week to get new books. We read to our children multiple times a day. They do homework. We show them what it's like to give back and help other people. Whether it's driving and seeing someone on the side, asking you on a sign and letting our kid give them money to understand that people are suffering, right? And some people believe you should give them money or you shouldn't because they'll spend an alcohol. But we're trying to teach our kids it's good to give and help others. We're trying to live somewhat normal. We try to teach them, hey, you saved up money. Here's what you can get from it. What you can't. Should you save? And if you save, can you get something bigger? You know, you have too many toys. Look, other people don't have toys. You should start donating stuff like that. We're trying to teach them how a lot of people struggle. You know, one of my kids, their teachers house burned down. It's like how can we help them? What can you do? Yeah, giving money is one thing and, you know, we helped on that and but it's what else can you do? Because even if you give them money, it doesn't mean it solves their problem the next day. The money's not enough for them to go buy another house in California, especially when it costs millions of dollars now when they purchased it 56 years ago, right? Or it was given to them. So you got to figure out how to help people and you got to realize that helping people doesn't mean it's always solved and there still could be sad and what can you do to, you know, go above and beyond and dealing with the reality that helping people doesn't always solve it and you made it somewhat better from, but you didn't really solve their problem and sometimes people don't have everything solved for them and they're still in a crappy situation, but it's also life, right? And even if you can't solve it, you got to try your best to help them out even if it's not the ideal situation for them still. I love it. I think that I appreciate you going into this because listen, everybody asks you about marketing strategy. I can go on YouTube and find two million videos about you teaching about marketing strategy, which is always fun, but I think that one thing I see a lot of high-performing people struggle with is, okay, so do you use an example? You pull in over a hundred million dollars, you're with your agency, multiple investments, great life, you love work, but at the same time, you also prioritize family. And I think that a lot of other people that are in your position sometimes, sadly, family doesn't become a priority when they love work as much or when they're operating at the level that you're at. And I think, obviously, that's a huge mistake and I want people to learn from somebody who not only loves work and is built a successful business, but also understands, like, you invest in family because that's really all you have at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much money you make or how good your business is. And the fact that you put this much thought into it is, I think, very important for people that are just starting out. Here's something that I learned over the last five months and I changed my life from it. So my podcast, one of my buddies, Eric Sue, we also podcast together, but sent me this quote from Twitter or X and it goes on where how a lot of people spend their, you know, when they have a family, they spend the early years of the children's lives working hard and making all this money so they can live a better life, right, provide for their family. And then when they get older, they're planning to spend the time with them and their children in theory would be appreciative, right? So there were some months last year where I was on the road so often that I was only home like three days a month, okay? And I could see it taking a toll on my children from everything from, hey, why don't you love us as some of the other kids or deadies or home or and all this kind of stuff? Oh, I'm trying to make money so you can live a better life. I don't want my toys. Here's, they take my kids, took their toys from the room and they said, let's go to the store and return them. It doesn't really work like that as you know, but they're willing to return their toys for me to spend more time. And my buddy Eric sent that quote and ended up breaking down the ideal time where you should spend the time with the children is when they're younger because they actually want to spend time with you. When they're older, they are friends, their own life and they don't want to spend as much time with you and that's when you should work more. So in 2025, I've turned down pretty much all my speaking gigs other than the ones that already agreed upon. I think I've actually accepted one and I need to go visit my team in Australia. I've never met them in Australia. I've seen some of them when we go to other countries for work because we have offices all over Asia, but I remember my Australia team and they're just and someone wanted me to speaking gig there and we condense it totally a few days. And I was just like, you know what? I'll take this on, but I'm trying to travel less than 10 times this year and I'm just turning everything down and it will cause a business not to grow as much, but I'm okay with it because I can spend more time with my family and I'm happier and will I make less money? Sure, but who cares? Yeah, very, very important lesson. You have to know your priorities. If people want to just right now you have that marketing school, is that with Eric Sue? That's your main podcast. Do you have another podcast as well? Or is that the main one that people can go listen to more content from? We have another one that we've been recording that interviews CMOs. We haven't published the first episode, but I forgot what the name already is of the podcast just to make us find it. And I'll put it in the show notes. I think it was called like CMO verse, but like I don't even think we released our first episode of a room in recording videos. We did an interview with the CMO of Klarna, which went well. I think we did another interview with or it's coming up actually with the Google Google Brazil CEO or president or something like that. And then we have a few more that we're recording. But yeah, no, and you know, just having fun, but what I've, you know, we pretty much covered a lot of my learnings. And I think it's going to be different for every person. You just got to figure out what makes you content in life and optimize for that. And there's no right or wrong, right? Some people could tell me, Hey, you should work more and give back more. Hey, you're able to do this because you already have money. And like, yeah, because I started when I was younger and I've been lucky and blessed. And I feel for the people that aren't in the same position. Hence, we try to give back. And well, you know, one of my big regrets was giving too much money and a trust to my children. I wish I didn't do that. If I would go, if I could go back in time, I would undo it, but it's irrevocable. So I can't. But, you know, if I would rewind the clock a little again, I would have given less and donated more. When you, are you, are you pretty set on donating the majority of your wealth at the end of the day? Is that what you do want to do? Makes my wife happy. I like making it. She likes donating it. And I believe just giving it all to my kids will make them lazy people. So I don't want to do that. And I had to earn it. They can go earn it. Well, I provide them basic necessity. So they don't have to start from scratch. Yeah, I get, you know, they're born in privilege. And not everyone was. But I want them to live next to me. So, you know, by the house next to me, I know this sounds bad, but so it does do. I don't want to move to wherever they are. Okay, where can people connect with you? I mean, obviously, you still put out tons of marketing content. I'm glad I saw a slightly different side of you than what you put on the internet all the time. So I appreciate you. Thank you so much. But where can people connect with you listening to all the podcasts? Obviously, I'm assuming NPdigital.com. Yeah. And people, NPdigital is my ad agency. Neil Patel is my social handle for most of social profiles out there. Neil Patel.com is where I blog. If you out of all the different things that you've learned over your life, say you could only pass on one lesson to your kids. I know that we spoken about a few, but pick something new, something that really really means a lot to you. What would that lesson be in why? It was a quote from someone else and I'm paraphrasing it. And it goes something like what was it called? It's an entering not to say the quote, but never be rude to someone, no matter who they are, what their stature's life or how very little or how much money they make, never treat anyone differently or judge them differently. Because even if that person's picking up trash, you know, 10 years from now, they could be the feet that you're kissing, right? And it's not because they may be in charge of you that you should respect them. It's you should just never judge a book by its cover because never assume the worst case from people. You know, and I remember when I was younger in American Idol first came out and there was this guy and he was singing like she bang, she bang and he went viral on the internet and I was laughing and my mom told me at the time, why are you laughing at him? And I'm like, it's so terrible. She's like, who cares if it's terrible? He has a curse to go on TV and try hard and hear people, you know, have people hear him sing and that was his goal. Who are you to make fun of them? Do you have the courage to go to do this? And it hit me that you shouldn't make fun of people or treat them differently no matter how much money they have or how they grew up or how they look treat everyone the same and equally. You never know who you can learn from. You never know where people are going and even if someone is a plumber, people may laugh. That's a very respectable job. Someone could be a teacher. I used to pick up trash and clean restaurants for a living. I did that when I was 15 for a while and I know people laughed at me when I was doing it and sometimes I would smell because the trash bags would fall on me at the theme park I was working on. But like it is what it is and you should always respect people and never judge them and try to learn from everyone. I learned from my kids. The other day my daughter tells me, Daddy, I can see you're really getting frustrated with me and she's fine. And I'm like, I am Emma because you're not listening. And I don't hit my kids or anything but she's just like, you know, we would have a better relationship if you didn't get as frustrated with me and you had better patients. And I'm like, I agree. But I would also have a better relationship if you tried harder to listen. And I don't want to repeat the same thing like don't jump off of the couch 10 times that you got hurt and then you do it again. And she's like, well, you need to realize I'm a kid. And sometimes I just do stuff I shouldn't be doing and I can't help it. So you need to be more patient with me and understand that. And I'll say, yeah, you got a good point. And I need to learn patients more and understand that sometimes people can't control things even when they shouldn't be doing it. And I need to understand that and try to figure out better solutions to help them realize that they shouldn't be doing things or they shouldn't listen or I should have better patients and understand that sometimes kids are just going to be a kids and you got to accept it for what it is, right? So I'm still learning at my age even from little kids.