Mara Dorne - Sales Expert | From Rock Bottom To Over $1 Billion In Sales

Today's success story podcast is brought to you by Evant and now listen up this matters for your business and today's digital landscape security isn't optional. It's essential without it. Deal stall sales cycle stretch out and scaling becomes really difficult. Why? Because investors, customers, partners, they all expect businesses to demonstrate strong security practices before they commit to anything. And if you can't prove trust, you lose opportunity. So whether you're a startup founder, trying to lend that first big client or an established company scaling your security program, Vanta helps businesses of all sizes prove they're trustworthy by automating compliance across 35 frameworks like SOC2, ISO 2701 and HIPAA. The exact certifications, your prospects, your customers are demanding. And here's why you need to pay attention. Vanta gives you back precious time you're currently wasting on compliance. Their platform automates up to 90% of the tedious compliance work and it helps you respond to those endless security questionnaires up to five times faster. And they also connect you with experts to get your security program running immediately. In the results, they speak for themselves. A recent IDC report found that Vanta customers achieve over $535,000 per year in benefits and the platform pays for itself in just three months. So join over 10,000 global companies like Atlassian, Korra and Factory who use Vanta to manage risk and prove security in real time and don't miss this. For a limited time only, my listeners can get $1,000 off Vanta. That's real money back in your pocket. Visit Vanta.com slash Scott now before this offer expires. That's V-A-N-T-A.com slash Scott for $1,000 off. I lost my father at the age of six years old while I'm vacation. The death of my father really had molded me into who I am today. What does it take to rebuild from nothing? Not once but twice. Maradorn knows firsthand. She lost everything in the 2008 financial crisis. But instead of giving in, she fought back, breaking into a male-dominated industry, rising through the ranks and proving that resilience is the ultimate currency. When I first got into sales, I was not successful. Somebody sells me health insurance. Broke comes in, sells me health insurance. Monday morning, her boss calls me. It's her boss to invite me in for an interview. He spoke about this concept called residual income that made a lot of sense to me. That's like the whole beginning of the career. Today, she's a self-made millionaire, a leadership coach, and the author of perfect imperfections. In this episode, Mara gets real about failure, reinvention, and what it truly means to lead with authenticity. Nothing in the sales are going up for 15 years. Sales people either they make it or they don't. I drive to this appointment, driving 45 minutes to an appointment. I pull up to this guy comes out and I knew right there, uninsurable. I literally leave there with no check and no pride. I call my mentor and I'm like, I'm done. She's proof that success isn't about where you start. It's about how you show up raw, honest, unfiltered. This is an episode you don't want to miss. I have this introspective moment. That was a complete game changer for me. Going to the end of the years, the next six months, that is when I made my first six-figure income. Stop blaming everybody else. You can do anything in this life that you set your mind to. Welcome to success story on your host, Scott Clary. The success story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network. HubSpot not only supports this show, but they support entrepreneurs. That's why I'm such a huge fan of HubSpot. I'm very grateful for HubSpot for supporting the show because they help entrepreneurs. And as a fellow entrepreneur, I know it takes a lot to grow your business. A lot of audience attracting. A lot of sales. A lot of marketing. A lot of leads scoring. A lot of channel management. A lot of content. A lot of long days. Late nights, a lot of weekends. A lot of wishing. There wasn't easier way, but there is. With Breeze, this is HubSpot's new collection of AI tools. It's easier than ever for marketers, for entrepreneurs to attract audiences to increase leads, to score customers, and to close deals fast, which means pretty soon your company will have a lot to celebrate. Visit HubSpot.com slash marketers to learn more. If you had to pick an inflection point, something that really happens you early in your life, they sort of pushed you down the path that you're on today. What would that moment be? Oh, I can't believe that's the first question you're starting with, which is funny that you asked me that because it's something that I've become very recently okay with even talking about. So for many, many years, what people don't know about me is that I lost my father at the age of six years old, while I'm vacation. And I never talked about it. Literally in the last, I would say probably the last nine months that was the first time I ever publicly spoke about losing my dad. My friends growing up, they knew but it was just never something that was ever spoken about. So I would say let's start there. Like that was really a huge turning point in my life that I don't think that I even realized would lead or play a huge role in where I go. Why do you think you want it to start speaking about that? I think it's a part of who I am. You know, I talk a lot about being authentic and you know, living your truth and that is a big part of my truth. That's a huge part that has not ever been spoken about. And I felt like it was time. And you know, as I've been open about it because it correlates with anxiety, many people have come forward and have told me themselves like, I can't believe you lost your parent. I lost my parents. So it really makes it very relatable for other people. It's tough because you always want to bring parts of your life into your content but even I have a problem figuring which parts and that's super personal. But once you put it out there, I found at least that it's usually a positive result. You're always going to get like a little bit of uncomfortable feeling and you may not get a hundred percent of like the response from the people that follow you as you want. But I think it ends up being a little bit of a positive because people feel they can connect with you on a much deeper level but it's scary as hell. It is, but I think there's a lesson to be learned from it. You know, for many years, I didn't talk about it. But later on in life, you know, very recently, I feel like the death of my father really has molded me into who I am today. Like things do happen in life. I'm fortunate to have things. You know, they happen to everybody. But there is life beyond death. There is a huge life beyond that. So anytime I do something or celebrate it, you know, now I'm more intentional. And I think that my dad, I know my dad will be really happy for where I'm at and what I'm doing. Of course, you're killing it. I mean, like that's what every parent wants, right? Someone who have sort of figured it out and not to say they've never an end to figuring it out. But I mean, I'd say people look at you and you've figured out a lot, which is very impressive. I mean, that event could push somebody in a completely different direction than what you've done. And be and turn somebody into a very risk-adverse scared of life, almost person if you let it. Did that impact, let's go back. So I mean, when you were a kid that happened at six years old. So how did that impact how you looked at what you wanted to do with your life? Was that motivating? Was it stressful? Was it this whole burden? Was there less burden? Because you're not concerned about, I mean, your dad's passed away. So you can do whatever you want. Now you can do whatever you want. How did it impact? Um, so thank you. My mom is my like biggest influence in my life. And I don't think my mom realized that, but she made it very normal in the fact that, you know, life goes on and that's kind of where I have that attitude that you have to put your face on. You have to get up, you know, life is, you have to, we have to move forward from it. So growing up, I didn't think that I had an abnormal childhood. I mean, I didn't know any different. I honestly didn't. And I had a loving mom. You know, she has a partner for many, many years. My stepfather and I had a loving family. So it was never, I never felt like I was missing. I knew I was different, but it was never made to feel like that. And for that, you know, just in itself, as I was moving forward in my life and where I was going, that's kind of the attitude I always took on is, maybe I am, I mean, I think maybe I'm different. I don't know. Maybe I am different. Probably I'm different. Either way, everybody who's done anything amazing is a little bit different. Probably definitely different. But, you know, using that as fuel to always propel me forward, that despite any setbacks in my life, and there's been a lot of setbacks, not just the death of my father, but a lot of setbacks. You know, nothing, I don't think anything is worse than losing a parent. And it's a reminder that when you're at rock bottom, like I was there at six, you know, I didn't even realize it, but to be able to take a loss and use that setback as a comeback, that's where it's always gone for me, my entire life. I actually love that concept, like rock bottom, as this rock bottom is an opportunity. And you never want to wish rock bottom on anyone, but when you're there, if you use it properly, it can be this huge leverage point in your life that can sort of catapult you to anything. Because now you know, as a matter what happens in your day to day, all the stresses and issues and bullshit that you deal with, it's really inconsequential. So it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because you know what, real rock bottom is. Talk to me about sort of, like as a professional as an entrepreneur, what were some of the first things? Were you always entrepreneur? Was your mom your step that like, talked to me about that? Way, no. I come from a family where, you know, the only acceptable career growing up was either a lawyer or a doctor, maybe an accountant, maybe, but that was it. And so that's what I thought I was doing. I mean, that was my whole trajectory. I went to a pre-lawed magnet school in Fort Lauderdale. I have both a master's degree and undergraduate degree in criminal justice. So I thought I was going to law school. And it didn't happen. The economy came in 2008. And there was no money for me to go to law school. So, okay, so it's so funny because I actually have the same undergrad as you. And I made a promise to myself as I was doing that undergrad because I didn't want to go to law school. And it is very expensive as well. But I wasn't even thinking that. I was just thinking if I can figure out how to sort of do my own thing and move away from my parents want, awesome. But if I don't, then I always had this self belief that I could go back and go back to law school in the future. But your hand was kind of forced. Well, honestly, I only got the master's degree to shut my mom up because I didn't really know what I wanted to do. And she had this huge dream. I think the wanted it at the time. That's why I went obviously went back for it. But I think I felt the same way that if something, that was, but it later hindered me because I always thought if I feel when I got into sales by fluke, I always thought, you know what, if this doesn't work out, I can always fall back on law school. And it actually hindered me. It didn't help me. Why, why do you say that? Because when I first got into sales, I was not successful. I was, I was the worst sales agent out there. I did not make money for six months, literally did not. And it was because I was one foot in and one foot out. And I thought, and that I wasn't fully brought in and I figured, you know what, if this doesn't work out, I can always go to law school. That's interesting. You think I, I don't know. I've always felt like having a plan B is smart. But I know a lot of people believe that having no plan B can actually make the difference because then you don't have anything to fall back on. Yeah, it forces you. So I mean, like, was there a moment when you, when you were in sales for six months, you're not good at it. The opportunity that you could go back to law school, but you didn't. So I feel like there was a moment where you mentally closed the door to plan B and then you're like, fuck it, we're gonna go and figure it out, was that the case? Yeah, 100%. That's exactly what happened. So I'm six months into this business. I'm already newly married. I have my first child. And I'm in this sales, you know, male dominated space of insurance, like go figure and now I'm like way left. That's so soon. So it's so crazy. I'm the youngest female. I always say, young as Ann Hottest. No, I was the youngest female in this business. And here I am, not doing well. And really everybody kind of said from the beginning, I'd never do well. So now, and I'd never failed at anything in my entire life. Up until this. Yeah, until this sector of my life, I'm going door to door business to business selling health insurance. And I just brutal. Why can I ask why you chose that as like something you wanted to do? Because there's nothing about that. That sounds like I want to get into this and do this for the rest of my life. Somebody sold me health insurance. I was, it was that point in my life, the reason I didn't go to law schools because of 2008, the economy. And my ex-husband and I, we had lost everything. Six businesses, six months completely gone. We're at rock bottom again. You need to tell me that story. You can't just gloss over that. That's funny one. Yeah, that's important part too. Yeah, so I thought, so somebody sells me health insurance because I'm looking to lower my health insurance prices. This girl comes in, sells me health insurance. Monday morning, her boss calls me. I'm thinking it's like a quality assurance call. It's not. It's her boss to invite me in for an interview. And I want, and I had nothing going on. Nothing for the economy was doing terrible. I wasn't getting hired anywhere. By walking to this interview and it was like an auditorium. It looked like a mostly a little marketing scam. That's what it looked like. I've walked into those jobs before too. So I know I feel what you're talking about. I'm like, what is going on? I had no idea. I didn't even know what I didn't even know what it was. So there's this guy talking about health insurance. And it's like great. I don't know anything about it. I bolts out of the room. He finds me at the end of the hallway. And he's like, so what do you think? I'm like, no, I never sold anything. And he spoke about this concept called residual income. And that made a lot of sense to me. And basically with a hope of women of prayer, I got my 215, which is your health life and a new lease license. And that's how I started. Okay. So go back up just a little bit. So what was this? You lost all this stuff that led you to take this opportunity because it was kind of like a second rock bottom moment. So what had you built like with your ex-husband, right? So what did you build? What did you have together? What are the businesses? I'm assuming real estate or real estate? My ex-husband is like, is so on. And he lit and he worked. That's what we started here. And he had electronic stores and electronic stores are what like all of you really have. So he had an opportunity to go to Orlando and open up all these electronic stores and they failed. That was when the economy hit. Circuit City went out. Radio shock went out of his nest. Yeah. I didn't realize they were a horrible. It was terrible. Nobody could afford anything. There would be economy failed. And these stores were like the going out of business businesses, but there's no prices on them. And we lost everything. Shit. Okay. So then you add this what you both don't know what to do. Nothing. Everything is going. The house is going, the cars are going, being repossessed. We had no idea. And I can't get a job to save my life. So that's when the insurance girl comes in. I'm sure he's super entrepreneurial. So he's not thinking I want to go get a job. He's thinking like, I need to go find a way to make money. That's exactly what he's thinking. Yeah. More money. He's not doing anything. No, it's not working. So then I get into insurance. And that's where I start. That's like the whole beginning of the career. I bring him in later. He still works for me. My access. He's serious. Oh my goodness. Okay. No crazy. I'm telling you my life. No crazy. Very interesting dynamic, but whatever. If it works, it works. A huge shout out to bank on yourself for supporting today's episode entrepreneurs. Here's the retirement secret that Wall Street doesn't want you to know while you are pouring everything into growing your business. They want you gambling your future in their 401k casino with no guarantees. As a business owner, you already take enough risks. Why gamble with your retirement, too? It is time to discover the financial strategies smart entrepreneurs are using to protect their wealth. Bank on yourself is the proven approach that gives business owners what they need most. Certainty, flexibility, and control in their retirement. Unlike traditional retirement accounts, bank on yourself gives you predictable guaranteed growth that isn't at the mercy of market crashes, a liquid cash reserve. You can tap any time to seize new business opportunities or whether downturns, there's zero penalties or restrictions, and tax-free retirement income that shields your hard-earned wealth from future tax hikes. For entrepreneurs who understand the value of financial leverage, here's the game changer. When you access your money, it continues growing as if you never touched it. This means your capital works twice as hard, just like you do. You can get a free report that reveals how you can bank on yourself and enjoy tax-free retirement income, guaranteed growth, and control of your money. Just go to bankonyourself.com slash scott and get your free report. That's bankonyourself.com slash scott bankonyourself.com slash scott. So you don't sell shit for six months. What was the thing? When I'm assuming the whole time, obviously, super-stressed with your ex-husband, you're figuring out, are you thinking, okay, should I go back to law school? You're like, all these super-stressful fucking thoughts are in your head, non-stop for the next six months. What was the thing that made you close that mental door to plan to be going back to law school? And you were just like, okay, I'm in it. It hasn't worked for six months, which by the way is like a longer, you're very patient because I don't think I would give anything. Especially if I had no money, I would be like, okay, I'm going to go get another job that at least, you know, keeps the lights on or whatever, pay the rent. So what was the thing that closed your mental door to plan B? So that's a really good question because for salespeople, I've been in the sales, I've been in for 15 years, and salespeople either they make it or they don't. But there's a defining moment in most salespeople's lives. It's what I call this aha moment. It's like, you know, we're like, huh, it makes sense. And it just clicks. So for me, I drive to this appointment because it wasn't virtually yet. This is driving 45 minutes to an appointment. Like this is, and I say to myself, I'm either going to go big or I'm done. Like this is it for me. So I drive 45 minutes to this appointment. And we only at that time would ensure people that were insurable. So if you had anything major, we couldn't ensure you. So I drive 45 minutes, I pull up to this, dilapidated, I don't even, it was dilapidated house. This guy comes out and he was ginormous. You could tell he had a health problem. And I knew right there, uninsurable, I'm like, oh, this is like, I'm not going to lay 45 minutes driving out. It's going to be 45 minutes back. So like an hour, hour and a half, two hours of your day, what up? Yeah. And that was when I was making my decision if I was leaving or not. Then I'm like, all right, maybe the wife, the wife comes out. She's even more uninsurable. So I literally leave there with no check and no pride. And I get in the car and I call my mentor and I'm like, I'm done. I'm not doing this. I don't want to do this anymore. And she's like, okay, you know, very patient. She's like, okay. And she's like, what happened? We ran through the wholesale. She's like, Ma'am, did you do this? No. Ma'am, did you see that? It was 45 minutes away? No. Ma'am. Why would you even pitch a product like that when you, like if you had asked the correct questions, you would have known what to do. So I hang up with her and I'm livid. And I have this introspective moment. I think everyone does. And I took a deep look in the mirror and I'm like, you know what? It's not everybody else. It's not me. It's not the leads that suck. It's not my leader that sucks. It's me. I'm not fully bought in. And that was a complete game changer for me. From that time going to the end of the year, to the next six months, that is when I made my first six figure income. So you went from more or less zero dollars to six figures and income. Okay. So huge shift from I'm a victim of the world to I'm responsible for my own shit. By the way, I love this. This comes up a lot. This like this whole like shift in perception. Yeah. Are you going to say something? No, I'm agreeing. I'm agreeing with you. Yeah. It does. It happens. The what was me. It's a lot. A lot of us do it. And it's very hard to be introspective and realize you are the problem. So what changed in the next six months? So that was it. I had full belief in myself. I stopped with the nonsense that I was going to law school. I wasn't I wasn't going to law school. I was just wasn't going to happen, you know. And I had I had a nine month old at home and the burden was going to follow me in the way that I was raised as you take care of your children. And that was kind of it. Like it didn't really matter what was going to happen with my husband and his business. It didn't matter. All that mattered is that there were where there was a well. There was a way. And I needed to stop the what was me. This is not how I was brought up. And you know, when I had that complete shift in attitude and mind frame, full belief in myself, everything was different. What would be the advice for somebody because you hit so many, I quote unquote rock bottom moments, but you use perseverance. I mean, if you look at what you've done now and we can talk about sort of like the level of success and the level that you play at now, we'll get there. But what would be the advice that you have for somebody that's in living in this rock bottom moment? Because I think that's a really difficult again. I mentioned before, it can be the superpower if you use it properly, but I don't think many people know how to navigate it. It's hard because everything is so cloudy. It's really hard when you're at your worst. It's definitely, but you have to be introspective. And if anybody is going through something like that, it's time to take a long, deep, introspective perception of who you are inside and live that truth in own it. And once you own it, who you are, it doesn't matter because the best thing about life when I say this to everybody, you can fire yourself one day and rehire yourself the next. That's the best part about it. And you can, as long as you recognize where you're going wrong and stop blaming everybody else. Stop. You know, as you sort of go through your career, I've looked at other podcasts you've been on. You speak about anxiety a lot as well. So most people that have massive anxiety, it's almost crippling and it stops you from taking any action. And if things are going good, you overthink the good shit. And then you start to think, I mean, this happens to me, too. I think a lot of people, I think a lot of people, not all high performers, but high performers that again, I don't know if it's a mixture of imposter syndrome. I'm sure it's like a whole bunch of all these different things that are just layered to disappoint. Just be like, you know, maybe a relationship with your parents. I don't know. I'm not trying to like self-diagnose myself. But there's a lot of reasons why people have anxiety. And it could be that you're always trying to live up to other expectations, or like you're a yes person, and there's a whole bunch of reasons why you have anxiety. But most people that do have massive anxiety, but I'm assuming you have a pretty significant degree of it because you speak about it. So I'll be something to solve on my. Most people have anxiety. I think would be crippled by even in good times, like overthinking stuff. But you persevered again in the worst times, even though you have anxiety. So a couple things, a couple thoughts. So first of all, how do you manage your own anxiety? Like walk me through why you even speak about it, how prominent is it, how does it impact your life? Why is it sort of like a theme that you think is important to speak about? But then secondly, second question, I don't like you two part of questions a little bit. It's okay. I got you. How do you work through it? So the answer to your first question is it's something I didn't talk about. And I also told you that I like to live my own truth. So I never spoke about anxiety publicly. I've had anxiety probably my entire life. But the first back came 20 years ago, over 20 years ago, I didn't know what it was. I thought I was having a heart attack is what I thought. It wasn't the paramedics came to thought I wasn't saying. And I did not know what it was later come to find out that it was anxiety. As I've gone older and I've seen season, I don't even like the word older, but as I've got become more seasoned, a lot of people deal with anxiety, a some form of mental illness. And I think it's really important not to be ashamed of it. It's not something. And again, you can use that as your superpower. I suffer from it every day, every day, I have a spat with it. But I also know that the anxiety is not going to control me. I can control the anxiety. Now I might freak out and you never know what's going to, I mean, internally, but I also know that it's not, again, it's not an excuse. You can persevere over. You can. You can get through it. I want to take a quick break and thank the HubSpot podcast network for supporting success story for the past two years. Now the HubSpot podcast network has other incredible podcasts like my first million now. If you are an entrepreneur or you are ready to turn your entrepreneurial dreams into millions, you have to listen to my first million. It's a show that is revolutionizing business podcasting. It's hosted by Sam Parr, Sean Perry. This is a HubSpot podcast network original. It brings you unfiltered conversations with self-made millionaires who actually tell you how they did it. You want to learn how Alex from Mosey built his fitness empire or how Sophia Amaruso turned nasty girl into a fashion phenomenon. These aren't just success stories. They're the blueprints for your own journey to the top. Each episode breaks down the exact strategies and hidden opportunities that you can use right now. Don't just dream about your first million. Learn how to make it. Listen to my first million wherever you get your podcasts. Today's episode is brought to you by Taylor Brands. Now here's a wild stat 60% of Americans dream about starting their own business, but less than 20% actually take the plunge. Now why is that? Let's face it. Building a business feels overwhelming. But what if I told you there's a way to make it simple? This is where Taylor Brands comes in. Your complete business building companion. They've turned the intimidating process of starting a business into something you can actually handle. If you need an LLC, done in minutes. If you try to protect your personal assets, they've got you covered. They'll hold you up with everything from legal documents to licenses, departments, even a personalized business plan. Plus their business coaching program will guide you through your crucial first 100 days. And the best part is you get all the tools you need to build your brand, manage your invoices, handle your bookkeeping, basically everything you need to launch with confidence. And there's an exclusive deal for all success story podcast listeners. You get 35% off when you visit Taylorbrands.com slash podcast 35. Don't let your business dreams, stay dreams, get started today with Taylor Brands. Fresh books are supporting today's episode. If you've ever wondered how successful entrepreneurs stay on top of their finances while growing their business, the answer is fresh books. The numbers don't lie. Over 30 million people have chosen fresh books processing more than 60 billion in invoices and saving an incredible 192 hours every year on accounting tasks. Think about it. That's nearly eight full days. You can get back to focus on what really matters growing your business. Fresh books is more than just accounting software. It's your all-in-one financial command center, create professional estimates, track time, automatically build clients, and capture expenses on the go plus it integrates seamlessly with over 100 business tools you already use all backed by award-winning customer service. If you're ready to stop drowning in receipts and you're ready to stop chasing down payments, here's what I want you to do. Head over to freshbooks.com to start your 30-day free trial, no credit card required. And for all you success story listeners out there, I've got something special. Get an exclusive 60% off for six months when you visit freshbooks.com slash pricing dash offer transform your business with fresh books today at freshbooks.com slash pricing dash offer for 60% off. When is it? I shall tell you my own story first and you can tell me when it impacts you the most. So I have anxiety with sort of two things and I also have gone to the hospital to get like a KG because I thought I was having an hard time. So two things impact me. So the first is obviously whenever I get on stage and now it's gotten better just to repetition, but there's always a moment right before I go on stage where I'll have like a massive internal panic attack and it was very frustrating for a long time because I wouldn't know if it would go away or if it would just get worse. And the more that I get on stage it now like 95% of the time, maybe 99% of the time just goes away. For the first few times it would just get worse and worse and worse and I would still go on stage and I still do my shit and I wouldn't like let me not perform. I know some people have panic attacks. They can't even talk and I would still do it, but like my seat would be like soaking well with sweat. Like super gross, but I mean, it's like whatever is my reality and then sort of you expose yourself to it more and more and more than eventually it starts to get less bad. The second time I have anxiety is because I used to work out a lot and I actually injured something in my chest and once in a while I'll feel like a pain on my left side chest and it's like from like inflammation. This is like the story of my life. But what happens is then I start to think, oh my god, I'm having a heart attack. My life same thing. And it stresses me to go out and then and then because you feel that and your brain thinks you're having a heart attack, then you get all the symptoms of a panic and then you go into a panic attack exactly. And the worst was when I was in a public and I just it was like it was a night after drinking and I hadn't drank a lot of water. It was like hot outside and cold inside and I felt this like pain in my chest and I just I had to sit down and I actually went to the ER, I went to whatever and they didn't EKG and there was nothing there. But it's very, it's, if somebody is not experienced this, it's the most real feeling of you actually dying because I remember I was texting, I was texting Gina, I was saying like, I think I'm having a heart attack, come pick me up and she was in Coral Gables at an event and I was at a public and Fort Lauderdale. So she's freaking the fuck out too. And we actually called a friend to pick me up and brought me to ER because I couldn't, I couldn't drive. I couldn't move. It's so real. It's debilitating. It is debilitating. And you get this, you get flush and you get like, you know, this cold sweat and you get dizzy. It's very real and it's horrifying. Anyway, so tell me about, tell me about how they impact you and sort of also how you get over them because I have my own way, but this is not my show. Yeah. No, no, no. So there's different ways. You know, I've tried the medication thing, the medication, I, for me, I just, I just couldn't do it. It made it worse before we get better and sometimes that's what happened. What meds? I was in, what are they call them an SRS where you take it and it made, it just made it worse. It made it worse and the doctor did warn me that that could happen where it's increased a little bit. It gets better. But the feeling is so horrible that I'm like, forget it. I can't do this. I tried therapy a few times, but for me, when it gets, I mean, the best advice I ever got, honestly, was from a Holocaust survivor. And he was like, listen, you're not going to die, embrace, embrace it. Just let it come on and just know in your head, you're not dying from the panic attack. So I try, when you know, because you're not always rational, I try in my rationality, because the same thing happens to me. The minute I feel something weird in digestion, a flutter in my heart, and I'm sure it has to do with my dad dying at 38 of a heart attack. That's exactly what I think. So I go into this same exact, you know, debilitating position, but I also know that it's going to pass. I do know that. I know what's going to pass. So I'll navigate through my phone, I'll look, you know, I'll try to watch something funny, anything to like redirect my mind, but I mean, I also know that it's going to happen. It'll be about 15 minutes and it goes away. I don't know that that's the best advice to give people, but and I exercise that minimizes it. Is there something that brings it on in particular, or is it just for me? It's when something, that's, that is the hardest is like, if I feel something abnormal in my body, it's in, it's with the heart, like anytime, really with the heart, or if I feel like a pain in my left arm, you know, any, and I like, and I Google all this nonsense, I constantly googling, I self-diagnosed, but I know rationally that most, that it's related to, it's related to the death of my father, and there are ways that you can, that you can control it. So I had a calcium scoring, and a calcium scoring will tell you the percentage, the likelihood of you having a heart attack, and you're trying to rationalize it. Yeah. Yeah. It's very low. It's very low, Mara. Yeah. It's not funny. It's horrifying. But I mean, so the time when I had to call a friend to bring me to the ER is because I was googling it. I like, I felt it. It's over. Then it gets worse, then the panic, then it's fight or flight, and you're already in the spiral. It was bad. It was very bad. What has been, I mean, you put out a lot of content, and I just speak about it. For somebody that's listening to this, you know, oh my god, I could never do that. I could never talk about that shit. What has been the sort of the general response? Have you noticed a positive? Yes. All the time. And I'll tell you this, if you have a buddy, this really works. For me, like I can call my husband, if it's happening, he knows what it's like, have somebody on hand, maybe one or two people are my mom. And if I talk about like, hey, you know what, I'm, Scott, it's happening again. I'm happy. And if you can read a, correct your mind, it's, it's a world of your friends. That's smart. But a lot of people have come forward and been like, I'd battle it too. Some form, you'd be surprised how many people have some, some form of mental illness. That story that I mentioned, well, I think I think I was talking to a friend and he works with a whole bunch of entrepreneurs, he's successful in his own right. The, he runs like a little bit of like an entrepreneur club and he, he's part of, um, EO entrepreneurs organization as well and so forth. And he was saying, I can't remember the stats, I'd have to look them up. But entrepreneurs by nature are, they all have something or majority of them, very neurodiverse or whatever group of people. So I mean, if you are, I guess, you know, quote unquote, ambitious, a slash crazy enough to go build your own thing, there's going to be something that's a little bit off that allows you to subject yourself to this kind of super high risk, at least perceived high risk life at where things are always going up and down every day as a roller coaster of a million different things that are working and not working. And if you're successful, the reward is even more bullshit that you have to deal with. Yeah. And the higher up you go, the more problems come along with 1000%. I mean, if you think, um, you know, it's fun to make money, but then again, just other people that have sort of been on this show, they speak about, they play at a much larger level than I do. And one of the guys, he runs like a publicly, a publicly traded company. It's like a holding company. And he's like, you know, he has like 10 constantly ongoing lawsuits and every day he works up with a problem that would like, you know, you stress somebody out who's just starting out who would never want to never even think about entrepreneurship. They knew the problems that he's dealing with on a day to day. More money, more problems. That was the true. It's true. So, okay. So let's keep going down your journey. Um, so you made a hundred grand in six figures, so plus, minus whatever in, in, uh, in six months. Um, you're still selling health insurance, I'm still selling it. Okay. So you can pick how the story progresses, but what's, what's next as in your life as like a sales person? So there was, I mean, there was a lot of step backs. Look, there was a divorce in between. I mean, you name it. It happened. I did have another, I had another child with my ex-husband. So I had another rabie and like in through all this, um, so there, I mean, there was tons, and I'm also growing up. I mean, keep in mind, I'm 25 years old when this is going on. Dude, you hit life hard quickly. Yeah. Really, really quickly. And it's not like I came from a family and money where I can go and borrow all the, all this money to help, you know, offset everything that's going on. So this is all going on by the age of 30. I'm divorced, two kids. My ex-husband, I love him dearly, but he wasn't raising the kids full time. I was. So now here we are again, you know, all the pressures back on me. I was fairly successful as a salesperson. I was doing really well. Um, I end up leaving my company for a duration of about a year to try to sell my own, try to set my own insurance game like do be a broker. That's what they call it, you know, sell different types of insurance. It just wasn't a great platform. So, you know, lost a lot of money in between there, ended up going back. And this is where life shifts again for me. I come back in and I realized that people like me. And I'm like, wow, this is, this is really interesting. And then I would tell you about that, people like you, they liked me. They were drawn to me. They wanted to see how I would, how I sold. They were starting to emulate my different sales tactic. Yeah, people that I worked with. So I was given an opportunity to start building a team. And I was a good builder, a very good builder. And I started to build with people that were more like me, more women, more professional women, younger people. There was different, you know, ethnicities. Because originally, like I said, the company was predominantly white male. That's what it looked like. How many, I'm curious to, how many, um, when you first joined, how many women are selling insurance? There's probably, I mean, I was recruited by a female, which is funny, but, um, over, there might have been maybe 10 women in the company, maybe at 100. Okay. Oh, not a lot. No. Super male dominated industries. Super male. Now there's more. And now for sure, there's more, um, but women just are not as successful at this. They, there's, there's a lot of reasons why, which we can talk about, but they're, they're just not, they don't do that well with this. Um, so here I am and I start building this team and now life, you know, changes again. And I start building in a rapid pace. Um, so now I'm developing other leaders and I'm giving this to your own company that you're building. I went back to it. So you're, so you're basically like an entrepreneur within the company. Yeah. Yeah. You definitely are. You're 10, 99. So you are, yes, you're self-employed and start building basically an empire and that's really where it's been for the last 10 years. I've, I've had the blessing. My husband does the same thing. So he is one of my leaders. He works, you work for me, but so your husband and your ex has been, yeah, they look, I love that. It's crazy. It's so crazy. He took us from a face-to-face model to, um, to a completely online sales mode. So that was something that we implemented throughout the organization, which really skyrocketed all the sales. And that's what I've been doing for the last 10 years is building and developing. And now I have 10 offices throughout the US. I'm on a plane every eight to 10 days. I've remarried. I remarried, um, because I said I have a new husband and we have, I have another child. So there's three, I've three children. Adulation. Yeah. So insane. But yeah, all of this, yeah, all of this happened in the last, it's so, we even when I say the story, it's like an unbelievable, oh, long, right? It's a 10 year span. It's 15. I've been doing it 15. That's fine. But it's not like, it's not like you've been doing it for like 30 years. I mean, 15's a long time. I have a whole child. That's going to be 17 years old next week. That's wild. Yeah. Absolutely wild. So one thing that's interesting about you is that you found a way to kill it and make a ton of money without being like, quote unquote, a traditional entrepreneur. So talk to me about even, tell me, tell me some numbers that you are comfortable talking about. So because it is like an opportunity for somebody who's looking at, who's within a company you say, W two, nine to five, make millions. I don't think people understand that. I think people think that to make millions, you have to go build your own thing from scratch. And I think that that maybe, I don't like that. I don't like that. The fact that a default version of entrepreneurship, no, it is entrepreneurship. I mean, you do build from the, from the bottom, but there's a model which I've been really blessed. I was given a great platform, a model company that embraced, you know, me as a woman, but you had to put in the work. And I think that's a big misconception that people don't realize when you're building your own business, yeah, you make millions, but what did it take to get there? You know, there was a lot of work that you don't know. You don't have to start from scratch operation, but you have to be willing to put in the work. And I don't disagree with that. I just think that not everybody has to be like, I want to go start the next Facebook. No, I don't think you have to do that. I think that, listen, the one thing I say all the time about myself is that I'm not smart. I just steal other people's ideas and I make them better. So the whole point is, is if it's not broken, why fix it? You know, you can go into a model that works, you just have to work. So when you, and you sold, I think if I was looking at it, you sold over like a billion dollars in total revenue for the company. Team sales, yeah, team sales. Absolutely. Okay. So let's talk about, and this is obviously, it's made you millions of dollars and this is again, you are entrepreneurial within a company, which I think is an awesome, it's an awesome way to think through career options too. Um, let's talk about sales. You mentioned, I want to talk about like what good sales is, what good sales is and obviously selling over a billion dollars is pretty fucking phenomenal. I mean, many people have done that outside of real estate agents, maybe, but I mean, that's really, that's really, really, really good. That's a, that's a huge number to hit for anybody in sales and anybody who's built like a sales team and sales culture. What? Well, maybe you saw examples of, of poor salesmanship, like insurance, is it a little bit like the quote unquote, I know it's a, it's a stigma, but like used car. No, it doesn't have to be like that. It does not. It can be, I mean, you're building your business here. So the biggest thing is, is doing the right thing by the client and it's not a pushy sale. It's not like that. It's either they, because we, I hate the word salesperson, their advisors, their advising people. And as long as you're open and honest, you know, about insurance, everybody has their gripes, recognize them. And you are ethical, of course, you know, and you lead by example. And the whole idea, actually, the company that I work, that, that I am sub employee, I guess, the workforce, the motto is hope. It's helping other people every day. And the promise behind that is you want to put people in a better position than when you find them. So not everybody is applicable. And I think people get that confused when they're trying to make the sale. Make sure that the sale is applicable for the person that you're trying to sell. So it doesn't have to be a sleazy sale can be very informative. And then you ultimately leave it in the hands of the consumer. If you did a good job and you sold correctly with ethics and moral or moral, then the end result is always there. And that's how I sold. And that's how I taught my teens to sell. How do you, and I agree that is the way you have to sell. And that's what you should sell. And I mean, not about, I'll give a caveat, not all people to sell cars are, it's like the stigma, right? But if you think about like, if I'm trying to sell something that is a commodity, because insurance is not, is a lot of insurance brokers. And there's a lot of options out there. I need the biggest issue, because I agree that's the way you sell. You have to be an advisor or you don't push stuff down people's roads, but it's very hard to differentiate when you have something that I can go online and find 50 different options. And I think that's what people struggle with more than anything. So how do you overcome that? I mean, you've done it successfully to the tune of, I get over a billion dollars, but it's not easy if you don't have a different, a unique edge to what you're selling. So so ironically, you know, I sell for an individual health insurance company. It's individualized. It's not your traditional health insurance, where you can go online. And yeah, you can go, I mean, I think you can buy anything else offline, right? Even a car. What's the difference is that you have a real life person. And we are the advisor that they can constantly go back to. So yeah, they can go do whatever our mind for sure, but you're not going to get the same service when we teach our agents to make sure that they do policy reviews, that they do follow-ups, you know, yearly check-ins. So you're getting a level of customer service that you would not be able to get when you're going online. And believe it or not, most people don't understand insurance. I know. Yeah. I'm Canadian. And so I'm planning to come down here. Maybe you could sell. I can help you out. I can help you out. No, it's really, it's really complicated. It is. It's exceptionally complicated. I feel like it actually should be so complicated because even like our American friends down here. It is very, nobody knows. Even if you're from here, no, I didn't understand insurance before I sold it. Nobody understands. And all the caveats on there, there's all kinds of stop losses. If you don't know what a stop loss is, if you're not, there's limited benefit plans, and there's indemnity plans, there's a lot of different plans. And if you're not careful, you can get stuck with a plan that is not suited for you. Why is this so complicated? A good question. I think you should ask the insurance commissioner, I have no idea. Because it's insanely complicated. It is complicated. It is. Okay. I'm listening so that they can maybe understand a little bit of the business. Yes. I'll give you a quick tip. You want to, if you're for a consumer that is looking for insurance, number one, if you, if you want freedom of choice, look for a PPO plan. That's a preferred provider organization because it gives you portability. So you can travel with your insurance. And for most people, that's important because the most likely thing that's going to happen to somebody is an accident. It's not an illness. Most people think that you have insurance to go to the doctor. That's not why you have insurance. You have it for accident and illness. That's why you have it. So you want portability freedom to choose and be able to use it outside of Florida, like Florida, believe you can only use in Florida. So you want to make sure the PPO that allows you to utilize, you know, outside. The other thing you want to look at is you want to look at the stop loss on it. So to make sure that they're going to cover, if it's 80, 20, you want to make sure that the 80, 20 stopped somewhere. So basically you have a deductible, right? That's the amount of money that you have to pay before your insurance kicks in. So we'll just use 80, 20, right, $5,000 deductible, right? And then it goes into what's called an 80, 20, or where they cover 80, you cover 20. Correct. Because I found that the first year that I got insurance, I, and that's actually interesting that you say that that is for emergencies and not doctor's visits, because I actually was doing the math on my insurance. And I actually, if I just had paid out of pocket, it would have been a lot. It would have been cheaper. And I was thinking like, this is insane, like, I don't know why I'm paying, it was I paid something like, I think it was like between, you know, myself is like 10 or 12,000 bucks for the year or for two of us for insurance. Yeah. And what do you have? Like, when I cleaned it for the two of you guys, yeah, it was very expensive. It was, well, because I keep think, I think what I was trying to do in, I mean, listen, Canada has its own problems, but one thing they do have, they do have universal healthcare, which is interesting. I mean, it's still a long time to see a specialist, which is not great. So, can you buy a supplement like, is if you have like a supplement that you can buy up for more coverage? So you're talking about like a, a dual, like public, private healthcare system. I don't think you can. No, it's very sad actually, if some of our friends, not some of our friends, I'm making these on, there's a lot of them. One friend in particular during COVID, she had cancer and she passed, because you cannot get the treatment or she cannot get the access that she needed. So when you, I've never been in this situation, I think God, no one in my family has needed to expedite their care, because obviously it's like a life-threatening thing. But from maybe it was something to do with just COVID, but from what I understood, there was, there was nothing that she could pay, like, you need a PPL plan. She could leave the country and go to another country and pay. Yeah, but then good luck, because then you have to, which might, that's hard to, that's a hard thing to do. So I don't think, I don't think, and if I'm wrong, then it's because I haven't really had to deal with this myself, so I could be ignorant. But I don't think you can pay to expedite for some things. I think you just, and I think it's actually a big issue, because what happens is when there's massive wait times, first of all, you have to go to your GP and then they refer you, and that referral could be six months now. Sometimes referrals aren't as bad, but if they are, and you have something that there's like, listen, the longer you wait the worse it gets. For sure. By the time you see a specialist, it could have progressed to the point where it's going to be very hard to treat, whereas if they caught it much earlier on, but I don't think there's an option. Like if my, if my family doctor says, go see this specialist, because you have this weird mark on your skin, whatever, right? And turns out to be God forbid, turns out to be like skin cancer. I don't think that there is somebody you can pay in Ontario, like where I'm from, that can see it immediately, or not that I'm aware of. Wow. Well, that's exactly why for the viewers that are listening, you need a PPO plan, because with an HMO, you have to go through your GP and get a referral, whereas the PPO, if I want to go see a cardiologist, because we already, we already established that I always think I have something wrong with me, it might be a hyperchondrag, but I don't need a referral to go see a cardiologist. I can make all I have to do is go online, look at the providers that take it or call specific doctors, see if they take my insurance, and then go into the cardiologist, I don't need a referral. I had even gone into, even down here, I went to a cardiologist once, because I had this weird thing. And I went from ER, it was actually after the public's incident. I went to the ER, and then I went to a cardiologist, and the cardiologist, they saw me, but then they called me after saying, we actually weren't supposed to see you, because the referral came from an ER doctor, not your GP. Yeah. So did you ever pee, you probably had an HMO, because you don't need a, I don't know what I had, I can check it, but see, I don't even know what I, I don't even know what I'm paying for. Most people don't go. Most people don't. So I always say for people that are in, you know, people that are in predominantly good health, get a high deductible plan, because you can go to a doctor and pay $50 to see the doctor, you know, and then when you have insurance, you have what's called a negotiated rate. So all you have to do, that's already, you give them your card, and automatically you'll get a discount off your insurance. So if it's $100 to go to the doctor for the, I mean, how many times are you going to the doctor a year, you know, I always tell people get a higher deductible plan. I've seen these things, like good Rx and stuff like that. Yeah. And Junction. Okay. Okay. That makes sense, because those are also cool up. So I think Mark Cuban has one like cost plus, there's tons of them. The good Rx is great. You can use it anywhere. There's, um, meaty meds, there's a ton of, there's a, yeah, we use them in conjunction when we sell. And that's another perk of having one of our agents, because they know all the tricks of the trade. Yeah. This is the only reason why I even know about those is because I'm like going down the rabbit hole and trying to figure all the stuff out for myself. Oh, yeah. I can. I don't sell anymore, but I can definitely direct you the rate. Okay. So that's interesting. So right now you just build out set, you build out teams. Yeah. That's what I oversee. I make sure that the teams are functioning, um, you know, Lee Jen, my husband actually does the Lee Jen part of it. But basically I develop and lead, you know, make sure that their leadership is in place. And I oversee 10 offices to just make sure that they're functioning correctly. The agents have a good agent experience, um, you know, all of that they're getting everything possible from we have different resources in there, from sales coaches to business coaches, uh, anything, even I saw you interviewed Patrick, but David, um, I just took all my sales people to his conference. I mean, you know, just putting in all kinds of coaching and leadership. A big thank you to indeed for supporting success story because hiring people is one of the hardest things you're ever going to have to do as an entrepreneur as a founder as somebody who's trying to build a business. It's important to hire well and find the right person, but it takes so much time and it's so labor intensive because like most entrepreneurs, you have a thousand things going on and there's a good chance that you just realized your business needed to hire somebody yesterday. So how can you find that great, amazing, right, fit candidate fast? It's easy. Just use indeed because you don't have to waste time struggling to get your job posts seen on all these other job sites. If you're using indeed, you can just use their sponsored jobs to help you stand out and hire fast. Your post jumps right to the top of the page for relevant candidates so you can reach out to exactly who you're looking for faster and the results really speak for themselves. According to indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. And you know what I love most about indeed? It really just makes hiring so fast because everything is streamlined in one place. No more juggling multiple platforms or waiting weeks for the right candidate and how fast is indeed in the minute I've been talking to you 23 hires were made on indeed according to indeed data worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with indeed. The listeners of success story will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash clary terms of conditions do apply. Just go to indeed.com slash clary a huge thank you to net suite for supporting today's episode. Now what does the future hold for business? If you ask nine experts, you're going to get 10 answers bull market bear market inflation up inflation down honestly at this point, you just need a crystal ball. Until we get one over 41,000 businesses have found the next best thing. They future proof their businesses, their operations with net suite by Oracle, which is the number one cloud ERP. Imagine having your accounting, your financial management, your inventory, your HR all flowing together in one fluid platform. And here's what makes net suite different. It gives you one source of truth for your business. You get the visibility and control to make quick, confident decisions while others are guessing. You're working with real time data insights, forecasting, you're basically looking into the future of your business with actionable data, whether your company earns a couple million or even hundreds of millions. Net suite helps you respond to immediate challenges and helps you grab your biggest opportunities. And speaking of opportunities, they put together the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at net suite.com slash Scott clary. This is the playbook for understanding how to use AI for your business. The guide is free that is net suite.com slash Scott clary. A shadow to Nord VPN for supporting today's episode, I have to tell you a story. So I was actually in Toronto visiting family last month and I went to binge some of my favorite Netflix shows I forgot and I realized that half of my US shows weren't available in Canada. Super annoying. Flipped on Nord VPN within seconds, I got access to everything. Now it's not just about watching shows, what makes Nord VPN a game changer really just imagine having this personal security guard for your entire digital life. With just one click, you're connected to one of their 7100 servers across 118 countries. I mainly use it for accessing streaming services when I travel, but I've also saved hundreds on flight bookings by checking prices from different countries and their new threat protection pro blocks all those endless pop ups and suspicious links before they even get to me. And what I love most is how simple it is. One account, 10 devices, so laptop, phone, iPad, everything's covered and the speed honestly it's so fast that I forget that I'm even using a VPN. And the best part, I've got a special offer just for success story listeners. So head over to nordvpn.com slash success and you'll not only get their best discount but they'll throw in an extra four months on the two year plan and don't worry about commitment because they offer a 30 day money back guarantee. The link is in the episode description, trust me, it's worth checking out especially if you travel or stream content regularly, that's nordvpn.com slash success. What are the things that I mean, we sort of spoke about what good sales is, what would be some practices that you see, like some really bad habits that you see with sales people that you bring on that doesn't matter if you're selling insurance off, you're selling anything, you just got to kill those of it. They're lazy. What do you mean? Some number one reason why people don't succeed is selling insurance is not hard. Maybe mentally but physically it's not hard. You know, now these guys, they have everything built out for them. They're not going door to door business, the business guys are literally in an air conditioning nice office with food all the time, you know, all kinds of incentives and they cannot commit. That's the biggest problem I see across the board was that they don't want to work. It's a grind. I mean, my sales guys are in there at 8 a.m. They're working till 10 p.m. But they do not. It's the lack of commitment to they still have to like cold call and it's it's not so much a cold call. It's more of a warm call. These people put their name and number online. That's all right. Yeah. So it's not like they're called, but you know, they're all the people that they're calling are also being blown up by a mill, but they have technology. They can text them. They can email that. I mean, there's these guys have all kinds of advantages, but the number one reason they don't do well is because they cannot commit to a schedule that works and you have to grind. It's a pipeline business. And if you're not willing to grind your first year and build that pipeline, it's not going to work. So then how much money can you really make in sales? Like, I mean, you first year or one, I don't know, you tell me, I don't, I've never worked in insurance sales. I'm curious. So sales is not a, first of all, the insurance insurance sales is one of the leading fields to be in anything like financial services is huge. So that's number one sales, what are these that most entrepreneurs are salespeople. So you can make the most amount of money in sales. You can make, I mean, my first year agents that really come out of the gate, taking advantage there's tons of incentives from the company, from us, from, I mean, tons of it. You can, you can easily make 150 to 200,000 your first year. And that doesn't even count your residual income. So you build a book of business. You build a book of business and you get paid second year on them. So is, do you feel, because I always have this debate as well, do you feel like sales can be, can be trained or is this something that you're just born with? No, I was, I think that's hard. That's very hard. But you can't believe that is, like we call it, we say you have like a stick, like you just have like the chutzpah, that's the way you either have the chutzpah or you don't, but you can train somebody to do that. Yes, you can teach somebody, you can't, not to create, I think you're born with charisma in the chutzpah, but I think you can train somebody. You can definitely train them how to be a good salesperson, tactical. But I mean, like is there, were you always like, just like very outspoken, yes, okay, it's always been like this. And this is, this is, I've always been like, because I think that's what people struggle with. They struggle in sales, they struggle with it, like almost a little bit of social anxiety of putting themselves out there, sort of exposing themselves to the customer and being afraid of being shut down. I can't remember, this could have been her mosey, I can't remember who said this, but basically the, the idea was get to a hundred nosed or a thousand nosed, because then, you know, yes, it's coming for sure. Of course, in the fun, like the best thing I tell my agents this all the time, like, did you ever make prank calls as a kid? Maybe they cause minor young, but did you ever do that as a kid? Yeah, of course. You didn't know the person on the other end, right? You didn't know it's prank all this same thing, like what's the worst that's going to happen? The person on the other line is going to hang up on you. That's the worst thing that they're going to do. So where's they? Why do you feel like it's so important for you to travel so much for your job? I'm curious. I don't have to. I don't have to. I do it because I feel like I understand the grind and no business. I do not think this is my personal opinion, but a successful business is not going to be successful unless the person is a hundred percent bought in and they're overseeing their business. And that's why I show up in my office. I think it's a reason why you're successful, actually. There has to be face time. There has to be. And every year, I'm like, I'm not going to travel. I'm not going to do it. I'll do the zoom thing and, you know, what I've incorporated zoom into my business. I have, but there's nothing like going face to face and taking these guys to a dinner or connecting with them outside the office or just sitting next to a new agent. You know, there's, it's just no greater feeling. I've thought this a lot. I feel like after COVID, we all got so comfortable with doing things virtually that we like to lost a human element of business. And I've just, like, I wasn't running a sales team at the end of COVID. I'm curious if you see that. If you see the people just gotten so comfortable with like zoom and text and email. They so we can't require anybody, but we strongly suggest that our salespeople are in office. So the majority, 99.99 percent of my sales team is in office. They do not work from home. You know, there's a difference. There's a huge difference. Because sales is about synergy and energy. And if there's no synergy, there's no energy, there's no production. Then think about it for a new agent, right? The new agent is on the phones. They're dialing through, you know, everybody, nobody's picking up, everybody's broke. You know, it's the same then all the sudden you start getting into your head and then what happens? The downspiring. Self-sabotage. Yeah. You're also feeling for office. It's a hundred purple. If you're around high energy sales and you know, Bob is making a sale and then Mary is. And you do, it's infectious. You want to make the sale. But you mentioned before, like, we don't have to break the point, but you mentioned before, like, what sales really is, which is bringing somebody, like, helping them see the problem that they're dealing with and sort of naturally bringing them towards the solution as opposed like shoving it down their throat. Yeah. That's the another bad habit is bringing, this doesn't happen a lot because I have young agents that have no sales experience, but a huge bad habit from people that come in that have previous sales experience as they know. They know everything. That's a bad habit. They know. But you work with it. So that is your, like, your perfect rap is somebody with no sales experience. None. Have we, like, I'm young? Young? That somebody has no wife, no kids, no girlfriend, no pets, no fish, no excuses. That's what we, that's our ideal candidate is. No one years ago. And, but the culture is different, like, I mean, if I look at different sales cultures, you don't even seem like you have, like, bad aggressive sales culture. No, I don't, but it depends, so we're broken up into teens. I do have some that are really aggressive. I do, like, my West Palm team is an aggressive team. They're, they're what we call closers. These guys are good. They're going to close you on something, which is a great way. I mean, look, they, they're not doing anything wrong, but they know that the person put their name and number online and they're not letting that person off the phone until they sell them something, which is, I, I mean, I think that's great if they can turn that no into a yes or get that person to bite. That's great. Is there, when somebody puts their name in, are they hitting them up, like, tactically, are they hitting them up with calls, texts, emails, sliding into their DMs, all the above, all of it. People find their everything. People find their, so sometimes the, sometimes the consumer knows to put their wrong phone number in, because they know they're going to get blown up. We can find you. If you put your first and last name, we can find you. We have all, we have all the tools for it. But does it turn people off from buying? Of course, sometimes it does, but, you know, sometimes people are really looking for health. I mean, they are obviously really looking for health insurance. Of course, you know, occasionally you get your person that is not really, but for the most part, no, they're not. And if they're turned off, then you know what, then it's next, that's how we try to teach them. So they don't dwell on it. Yeah. I'm curious if the teams that are closer today out perform, like, they do out perform. So there is something to be said for just like being, like, to persevere. Yeah. So another bad habit you're talking about habits is when the consumer says, so people like to be people do not like to be sold. No one, you know, it's a game. I always say it's like a dance who's going to, you know, are you going to get sold or am I going to get sold? No, I don't want to get sold, right? That I'm the one that's trying to do the selling. So when somebody says they're not interested for new people that come in, they'll say, okay, no problem. Well, they put their name in number and there you can't just say, or they'll be like, can you call me back later? Yeah, sure. No problem. And I'll look at them, be like, Scott, they're never going to pick the phone back up. You know, you have 30 seconds to make a good impression or you have some way to make sure that you have them committed to picking the phone back up. So how do you do that? We solidify it. We call it solidify the appointment. So you call me? I mean, it's, it's not easy to get me to care about random stranger in the first 30 seconds. So usually what happens is they do it through text. That's the number one way that that the corresponding starts is through text. The goal is to get you on the phone and a bad habit that the sales people don't like to do is get on the phone. They rather text. It's easier. But what do you, a text is so easy to be like swipe and you're done, right? So, so the whole idea is you want to get somebody on the phone. So what we teach them is you have literally less than 30 seconds to get somebody to find you interesting. If not, but they're not interested, it's, you're not interesting. So you have to be catchy. So if I'm calling, I'm like, hey, Scott, I'm not going to call you and be like, hey, Scott, Larry, I wouldn't say that because you would know right away if I was your friend. I wouldn't call you by your first and last name. Yeah. And I've had some bold, like not and not say bold, because that's the wrong word. I've had sales people just like hit me up via text. I love it. Using my first name. I love it. And it throws me off because I actually for a second, I'm like, but the alternative is, and it actually, like I don't mind having a conversation with someone that's human. Yes. Because that's a dinner today. It's humans doing business with other human. Absolutely. So it throws me off. It doesn't really upset me at all, actually. I don't mind it. And I also don't like somebody who, listen, I'm sure that some people are really good at bullshitting. But I don't, I feel like when somebody is using my first last name, God forbid, you put a mister in there. And then it's like, I don't trust a fucking word you're saying. Never. And if you the same thing, if you call me a mister, ma'am, I'm done. No, it just feels so. It just feels not personal, yeah, not personal. So I feel like, you know, I'm like, want to even though, even though it's so silly, humans like hold these while, even if you just say Scott, you just call me that. I feel like we're friends are like just like a level of like comfort there. That's where my criminal justice degree comes into play because it talks about psychology and criminal justice. I worked out at university by the way, but you know, I mean, you just said like some simple things, but it all calms down to it. Like that's what sales is about psychology, you know, who's going to bite first? It's understanding people how they, how they move, but you know, different ways to get that entice them, you know, and connecting, you know, we teach them that. If you're talking to somebody in California, you know, in Pasadena, maybe like, oh, yeah, you know, whatever it is, it's just some kind of mutual connection. Is there, you mentioned something that's interesting, and maybe it's a point that you should speak to because somebody's going to bring it up. You mentioned that women traditionally aren't great in sales roles. Why is that not women are going to, because I'm so pro women, but many women don't have the thick skin for its rejection. There's a lot of rejection. There's a lot of dirty talk. I mean, you would be nauseated by the amount of nasty pictures I've gotten, just people cursing you out on the phone. So like a lot, a lot of, yeah. And then the other part of it is what it takes. You know, I think women fall into that stigma. If they're trying to get married, they want to have the, you know, be the perfect life and not work from eight in the morning till 10 at night or be that grind or if they're raising kids, you know, I've had that a lot. People criticize me for traveling all the time, that mom's shame. So it's a, it's a, it's a really fun, there's a fine line for women. But the women, ironically, this is very funny. The women that do well, they do extraordinarily well. And they're more precise. And over the years, I love working with women more than men because they are such nurturers. They're more, they're more effective and efficient. And the quality of business is better. So if you're going into sales, I mean, I don't think it's in every industry. I don't think that you're going to deal with as much bullshit in every industry, but especially in like B2B, for example, but, well, I think face to face, oh, I killed you of ease to face. But if you are on that B2C, where you're just selling to anybody and everybody, there's a lot of fucking weird people out in the world. And I guess that you get more exposure to that than if I was a, well, I am a man who was going into sales. That's unfortunate. That's very unfortunate. But it's a tough, it's a tough arena for women. It is a tough arena. You're, you know, men are, by nature, just more aggressive. So, you know, when you're selling like that, it's survival of the fittest. And if you don't have that thick skin and that grinder mentality, you will be eaten by sharks. But you've also, I mean, you know, I don't usually bring this up because it doesn't, I don't think it's always important to point out when a woman kills it and she takes sort of like a career on, and you know, you start to provide for your family, it doesn't, let me, let me say it this way. You've said that you took on sort of the career because you wanted to provide for your kids. And you redefined, I guess, what a traditional like wife, mother or whatever. You sort of redefined it. I think that's, and you said something too. You said, women don't always want to, you know, go into that arena because they have other priorities, whatever, but I also think it's important to redefine like what a wife, what a woman, what a mother can accomplish. And the reason I said, I don't bring it up because to me, I agree with you. It shouldn't be such a talking point, like I don't think that you as a person are defined by the fact that you killed it as a salesperson and built the business. I think you're just an exceptional entrepreneur that did it regardless of whether or not it doesn't matter if you're a woman or a man who did that, you fucking killed it regardless. But I think that that's a really interesting point. I think that it's very important to redefine what a woman wants to achieve. I don't think there's only just one path. I agree. I agree 100%. And that's why I've kind of moved into this arena. That's when I get putting yourself out there and talk about this all the time. So I mean, you are trying to, I mean, you're obviously, you're killing it as a mom, but you're also killing it in your business. And that's tough. That's really, really tough to do both. Hard balance. That's why I was curious about how you like manage your time and how you travel so much of what novel still raising the family. But I felt like that was an unfair question. No, I, you know what? I am a full time mom. Believe it or not, I guess I have help. I would be alarmed if I, I haven't a nanny that helps, but I am full time mom too, full time. My kid, you know, technology is great. That's the beautiful part. I face time with them all the time. And I also have the luxury to take them with me, you know, my kids are, they're not a kid. This is the one thing I know for sure, kids want to know that they're loved. That's number one. For sure. It doesn't matter how you show it to them. It doesn't matter if you leave your kid in daycare, like I had to leave my kid unfortunately until sick. He was the last one picked up. That's just the way it was. But it doesn't mean I love him any less. And you know what, when I am home with them, my time with them is very intentional. Yeah, it has to be. And there's also listen. There's a lot of parents that, like there's a lot of moms and dads that don't work, but their time isn't intentional with their kids when they are home. And I'm very close with my kids, very, very close. They're not looking at me like, oh, yeah, does the little one want me home more? Of course he does, but it's not always, you know, it's not always applicable. But at the end of the day, when I am home, it's 100% about Levi, like, yeah, you know, and then the luxury, I can take my middle one, Liam, with me, he comes with me and travels. My big one, she now wants to get into social media. So she's around all the time. Everybody knows my kids. I love it. You're very strong. I mean, like even the fact that both of your, your ex-husband and your husband work for you is, that's funny. When you think about sort of everything that you've built, now you're putting yourself out there. You're kind of build your own brand. You're speaking more and whatnot. You're going to, you can talk about the podcasts you're going to launch or whatever. Yeah, exactly. So how does that, and I know that you're kind of just riffing on this before. Maybe you have some ideas. Maybe you don't, but when you put yourself out there, you build a personal brand. Have you seen that be like a net positive for your business or has it been a distraction? It goes hand in hand. I think like all the concepts that I talk about being intentional, purposeful, I created this free 21-day challenge. My agents can utilize just creating habits because it takes 21 days to create habits. Anytime I speak, you know, I can use a lot of the content that you see, it comes from my sales meetings. So it's like, yeah, it's actually super organic. It's very, a lot of it is. Yeah, a lot of the content does come from sales meeting. My office studio is in my office building. So it's not like I have it somewhere else, but it kind of works hand in hand. It's not. And then the recruiting aspect of it, you know, a lot of people ask me what I do. And that it makes a lot of that, but they're hell and no. Yeah. So anytime anybody's looking to really make a great living for themselves, near you are, this is a great opportunity to do that. Yeah, it's interesting because I find I just, I was literally at an event this morning over talking about like building a personal brand. And we were sort of looking at two different types of influencers. And there was an influencer that like sells a product or service, there's an influencer that makes money with brand deals and advertising deals and whatever. But I'm a big fan of CEO, putting themselves out there, building a brand, attracting people to the company. But I think I'm in the minority of people. I don't, I think a lot of CEOs, I mean, yes. You want, I mean, you are working, you are CEO within a larger company, but still for the offices that you built, you are the, you are the founders CEO of those offices. A lot of people consider it to be a distraction. And they don't really know how to do it properly. And they just feel like, okay, it seems like too much effort to create this content all day every day. So how do I actually start? And what does it actually mean for my business? But I think you're doing a really good job. Jewel it. Like I wrote a book and I scheduled it every, when I, when I wanted to write the book, I had set aside two hours every day. I work with my, my girlfriend who does my PR, she holds my feet to the fire. I'm not filming content every day. That's not, you know, that's not the reality. I have a set day that I go in and I take it now or two hours, if it's on a Sunday, I'll do it. Um, probably my most favorite is on the weekends, because it's really out of the way. Um, if I'm in the office, how long does it really film, you know, take to film, but it doesn't take that long. You have somebody follow, like follow you around with the camera. Yeah. I have the studio in my office, but when I travel, yeah, they'll come with me. Um, so you have a podcast is dropping. I do. Um, you, the book is perfect and imperfections. Yeah. What's the name of the podcast? Bill. What is that? What is that? Boss, I liked the follow. I love it. Um, was there stuff? I mean, the podcast will, will drop eventually. So we, I mean, it hasn't started yet. So we can't talk too much about that yet. Um, once the, once you figure out how to do that, you come back and tell me what you learned. It's going to drop. It's going to drop in next year, early next year. And it drops. Um, a big thank you to indeed for supporting success story because hiring people is one of the hardest things you're ever going to do as an entrepreneur, as a founder, as somebody who's trying to build a business because it's important to hire well. It's important to hire and find the right person, but it takes so much time. It's so labor intensive because like most entrepreneurs, you have a thousand things going on and there's a good chance that you just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find that great, amazing, right fit candidate fast? It's easy. You just use indeed because you don't have to waste time struggling to get your job post seen on all these other job sites. If you're using indeed, you can just use their sponsored jobs to help you stand out and hire faster posts, jumps right to the top of the page for relevant candidates. So you can reach exactly who you're looking for faster and the results really speak for themselves. According to indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. You know what I love most about indeed? It really just makes hiring so fast because everything is streamlined in one place. No more juggling multiple platforms or waiting weeks for the right candidate. How fast is indeed? In the minute I've been talking to you 23 hires were made on indeed according to indeed data worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed dot com slash clary. Just go to indeed dot com slash clary right now and support our show by saying you heard about indeed on this podcast indeed dot com slash clary terms of conditions apply if you're hiring indeed is all you need. In the book, what would be some things that you spoke about a lot of things were probably covered in your life and you're in your book, but perfect imperfection. What would be some other lessons that I didn't ask you about that were from the book? So I talk about a lot of the different, I would say not, I don't know if there are opposite setbacks. So a few of the setbacks that I wanted to give a voice and be honest about that I'm sure people struggle with. So not only, you know, I talk a little bit, I don't name it that, but imposterous in German happens, you know, I talk about the struggle or the battle of the juggling act of being a mom, you know, insecurities that that I faced. And I gave little tips at the end of the book on how I personally deal with it. And that was like the biggest part of writing this book, you know, originally, I'd never written any book in my life. I had no idea. Somebody approached me asked me to do this, like, when am I going to even write about? And I had a ghost writer originally write the book and I'm like, this, I love her. I just did not like, that just wasn't me. There was no curse words in there. There was, it just wasn't me. So what I wanted the book and what it does is it really highlights all of the different obstacles that I've gone through. And I'm very authentic about it, very real about the different, you know, the different twists and turns of life and how I've overcome the adversity, being in a male-dominated business, you know, being a wife, a divorce, a very public divorce. And these are things that, you know, people are ashamed to talk about. I'm not ashamed though. And I'm living my truth. Like, I'm not perfect. Not everybody's cup of tea. And that's kind of why I wrote the book, because I feel like I'm perfectly imperfect and I know that. I love it. Like, I mean, I think it's important when, when you go through this stuff in your life, when you feel comfortable, like put it out there, talk about it, because I think it can help a lot of people. I agree. And it takes you a long time. I wasn't, I was not, I was always outspoken, but I wasn't always comfortable in my own skin. It took a long time for me to be completely comfortable with who I am. And once I finally became comfortable and then look at the work and progress for sure, you know, I battle my own, my own inner thing. But once you're comfortable with who you are, it doesn't really matter what everybody else thinks. And I think it's a big part of, of life too, where like we hold ourselves to this unrealistic standard from social media and naysayers and haters and all the, stop, like all of this doesn't matter. Live your truth, whatever that looks like, and stop letting that get in the way, because the only one that can govern your path is you. Yeah. Like you always, if you're waking up tomorrow, like life's good, like don't, don't stress so much about the little things. That's hard. I can't take that. Yeah. I mean, that's great advice. I don't know that I can really talk. Well, I mean, listen, it's much easier to give you advice and just say it, then I mean, I struggle with this everyone, every single person listened to the show struggles with this all the time. It's very easy to say this advice and take it and then take it. What was the, what was your version of an impostor syndrome? You know, just living, I used to call with something else. I, it was insecurities with the security. That's really what my virgin, what my version of it is all these insecurities that I would face these, you know, whether, like, competed, I compete. It's so crazy. It's like a bodybuilding competition. I love it. By the way, our backgrounds are very, ironically very similar. Yeah. Well, that one, what do you mean, our backgrounds, oh, our bad, I thought you meant our background. Oh, my God. I don't know what I'm even talking about. Yes, our backgrounds as far as like, no, because I was into bodybuilding. I was about to do it. He did twice. I never competed. So my undergrad was in criminology. Um, I was going to go to law, I didn't do that. Um, I, I almost did a physique show when I did it. I did it twice right after I had my son because I wanted to get rid of the weight. So I literally had the last one. I'm crazy. Um, but that's like part of it. You know, it's the stigma of like, well, I always have these unrealistic expectations of what I should be and you're constantly going through it. I think that's why, you know, there's been so many like rock bottoms where you're just trying to reinvent and reinvent. So finally, you come to this place where you're like, this is who I am. Like as long as the intent is good and your, your path is, is true and you're really trying to help other people and live with servitude, the attitude of servitude and gratitude. And I think everything else doesn't matter. It's interesting because even if you, even if you went into, you know, did bodybuilding competitions to like prove something or whatever, all those things that come from a place of I have to prove myself and I have to prove my worth and I have to sort of show the world eventually realize that it's silly, but also at the same time, you're happy that you went through that because it's sort of made you who you are to discipline you, but you gain a lot from it. There's discipline. I mean, I did it for two years. I was on a diet for two years. It's horrible. Did you do back to back competition? Are you were never out of like, you just stayed in like competition ready? I'd say I competed like hardcore. I did it. Yeah, Bikini, I did the MPC and then I did the WBS, which was like less, you know? And I wouldn't, I wouldn't do the voice like I, and the MPC was like really big into that. You know, even the natural you saw, you saw, well, I don't, I don't never natural. It was too much and I'm so crazy with the heart nonsense that I just couldn't do it anymore. Like it was, it was unrealistic to live like that and also when women do this, I mean, like in their voice changes, I didn't do, I didn't, I didn't none of this. I didn't do. I would not take it for you. I did it. My girlfriend was my trainer and she gave me computer all and I was like, I'm not doing this and then try to give me a, I just didn't do it. I couldn't do it. First of all, if you're stressed about your heart, I just didn't, that's exactly why I didn't do it. That in the steroids, I was like, I'm not doing best. And it's at the time, if you, if you immerse yourself in like gym culture, it's like actually very, you feel like it's normal because everybody is doing it. That's right. Even from born in Toronto, raised in Ottawa, back to Toronto, then down down to Miami. But like, there was a, for some reason, I feel like there was more of a bodybuilding culture in Canada than I even see down here. Like there was in South, where's this not Chris Bums that he's from Ottawa, like all these guys are from like Chris are, yeah, a lot, not all of them, but a lot of guys are from like Ontario. There's a huge bodybuilding culture. It's so cold. You don't need it. You don't have to breathe. I think so. Yeah. And in South where you just buy your abs, you can like buy them here. That's wild. You can chisel them. Everybody. Everybody that you go to a gym in Ottawa or Toronto. And I would say like 70% of the guys are visibly like on shit. That's how, I mean, that's, that was the big life when I was competing with the same thing. I just was, I couldn't do it. I didn't want it. That's why it's over the WBFF, but they still weren't, they, they weren't so naturally. Yeah. Still super hard on your body. It's fine. Like, now I don't, obviously, I mean, even close to competing, but it's fun. Just to like, yeah, I still, I still go to the gym as like my place of relaxation. And it's like my zen and it sort of, these stresses me. I go every day. I have to. Every day, at least at least five to six times a week. It's funny. I mean, move down here. I actually, for the first time in my life, was he moved to a condo in Fort Lauderdale. I started using a condo gym and not like a commercial gym. It was probably nice. No. But I felt like I was like giving up because you weren't around other day. No, but also it's like, I used to be the kind of person that if I traveled, I'd find out if the hotel has like a nice, that's what I, that's what I, at least if they have a gym, yeah. But now since we're down here, there's a whole bunch of gyms in the town. So it's easier. Anyway, it's just besides the point. I have one in my house. I built one in my house. I did that during COVID. I, well, that's where it started because I'm like, fuck this. If they ever close the gym when I'm like, I'm not doing it. So Florida was it. Florida was good. I mean, good as subjective. It was good. Yeah, we, it was fine, but for like the two weeks that we couldn't do anything, I was like, forget, but I built it not only for that, because my daughter was going to high school and we built the gym in the house. But now I'm like, too embarrassed to tell my husband that I want to just go back to the regular gym because we spent so much money to build it in the half. But I like working out with other people at energy. It's G. Yeah. I like working with other people. It like gets me motivated. So I like me too. And I wish I don't, I don't really have this here because I haven't been down here in like this area long enough. But I actually like when you go to the gym a lot, then you start to see the regular. Yeah. And then you know people in the gym and it feels comfortable. I know, but I'm too embarrassed. I'm not after we spend all this super money and now I'm too embarrassed to be like, I want to go. I do actually have an EOS membership from when I travel because EOS is everywhere. We're, it's not down here. There's an EOS here somewhere. There's an EOS. I don't think I know it. EOS is a nice gym, but I did it because of Vegas. And so I, well, in South Florida, they have it when I visit my mom. But now I'm too embarrassed because I gave up my Ellie fitness one and my husband after we spent all this money, he'd be like, I can't, you know, like, I know, so I use me. So it's a nice gym. It's a nice home. It's a full. It's like mine during cold. It was literally just taking the basement, putting like the gym flooring down. And then I, there was nothing available on Canada. Everything was sold out. We went to like gym by like a whole set. Everything was sold out. So on Facebook marketplace, I found a guy that was selling it was like a, it was like a home gym from like the, like the Gix, Deezers, Devonies, it was like, I'll take it. I'm like, like, bring it over and that's all I had. I don't do. Like two years. Yeah. That's all you could do. I had all these like plyometric stuff. And then finally, like we, I mean, we were able to get the gym coordinator. And so, um, yeah, I think it's, listen, I think that, I think that, I don't know. I've always found the people that are athletes or have some sort of outlet like that. It translates into other. It does discipline. It's really good. I don't meditate. Deepak was trying to get us to meditate yesterday. I could not do it. Do you meditate? No, I don't. Yeah, I don't meditate. I couldn't do it. My brain just doesn't function. I always joke. I'm like, fuck meditation. Just go deadlift. I just can't do it. I was really trying. And then I was doing like one of these. I'm like, looking around. I'm like, who's really meditating here? Some people are very into it. I didn't even know you had it. There was like, they were doing it in like a specific stance, I guess, with your hands open. I didn't even know there was meditation etiquette. I had no idea. I don't know anything about it. No, for me, it's like just bust my ass and kick my own ass at the gym. What I thought, but they were meditating. They even do retreats for this. Meditation retreats in India. Yeah. And now, I mean, like actually, I mean, I don't know if you, I've always found like modern health overwhelm is very strange. Like, I find it strange because people will do anything except lift heavy ass weights. So I don't understand why people are so into like red light sauna or cold plunge for all these weird bad cold plunge. I didn't. I never do. And I hate it. But I, and now, like now people are, I mean, now there's like peptides and ozampic. And I still don't get why people have such a hard time just fucking going to the gym. They don't want to go out. People don't like going. But they'll spend time and money and energy doing everything, but going to the gym, like it's so confusing to me. That's what it is. It's society that we're in. Nobody really wants. That's what you were saying. Like you don't see a lot of people or there's not a big gym culture anymore. You don't need to. A lot of people don't need to do that. I see people doing the most ridiculous exercises, I see people, there's what's the term. So I used to be like, I used to listen to and read like Lane Norton's work, who was like an OG in the bodybuilding space, Martin Burkhan, who was like the founder of intermittent fasting. I used to love reading their stuff and actually I had Lane Norton on the podcast. But Martin Burkhan, who was really the guy who invented, not invented, but first put on the internet, the idea of intermittent fasting, he used to call all these weird exercises that people do a fuck arounditis. Like I see people do weird shit in the gym. I've seen them do like bizarre things. I also think that it's a, it's the sometimes the fault of the trainer that wants to create such a complicated workout regime that you cannot fire them because you never fucking understand what to do, which never be sad. But if you think about it, like what are the incentives for a trainer to give you something simple, or even my god, I mean, my trainer gave me some bizarre things to do, like a duck walk. I didn't know what a duck walk was. Listen, I'm sure there's some benefit to it, but I think that ultimately 95% of the results can just be from like understanding macros and doing like some compound lists in the gym. And that will give you a better body and make you healthier, not just aesthetically, make you healthier than 90% of the population. I agree. I know. Like this. Okay. What did I, what did I not ask you that I should? It will be another topic that you want to leave the audience with, there's some last words of wisdom. And ask me everything. I would just, you know, like the words of wisdom, I would say is that, hey, and I say this to everybody, there is nothing special about me, like you gave me all these nice compliments. So I think I'm going to come back just to hear that, but the reality is I'm just like everybody else. That's the only thing that ever set me aside is the will, the why and why you do well in life. And never about money, ever, it's not about that anymore. It's really about giving back and allowing other people to live, the reality that I've been able to live and anybody can do it, anybody, all you have to do is put in some hard work. I love it. Easy. I mean, it comes in sense is not always common, but that's really it. It's all it comes down to. I was in born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I don't come from a lot of money, I come from a single family home. That's like, that's the reality. That, you know, with a lot of hard work and some internal belief and some setbacks. Look, and that was the other thing. Like, there's going to be setbacks in life. That's what life is about. It's all about learning lessons and building blocks, but use those of building blocks to build you. Don't use them as like, you know, the, the tell, I'll be all that's not your story. You can rewrite your story anytime you want. I love that. Where do you want to connect with people? What's the socials, website, all that? The best place to find me is my Instagram, Maradorn, or you can see me. You can visit my website, same thing, Maradorn. Okay, perfect. Last question I like to ask. So you've had all these different seasons in your life, you, you know, you sort of figured a lot of different things out. If you could leave your kids with one piece of advice or one word of wisdom, what would that be? You can do anything in this life that you set your mind to.