Liquidity & Liquor - Jen Cohen | How to Outperform Everyone With Habits & Hustle

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Today you're going to hear an episode of my new podcast liquidity and liquor I co host liquidity and liquor with Joseph Martin a serial entrepreneur who sold his last company boxy charm for over 500 million dollars on liquidity and liquor we have conversations about business money and life with some of the most interesting people in the world you can download and subscribe to liquidity and liquor on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Jennifer Cohen the one and only welcome to our show I think it can be nice if you introduce yourself yes my past is I have a big my big part of my past and my president actually is fitness for sure. I've written a bunch of fitness and health book obviously not obviously I've written a lot of fitness and diet books I had a fitness app that was acquired by weight watchers I had fitness shoe that was a weighted shoe that people would wear and the idea was that it was my first company called no gym required and what it was is it was a shoe that had that had an interchangeable midsole so you would add 25% more calories. To what you burn because the added resistance and I think that was even before it's such a great concept I love this company is called like I said the she was called the NGR shoe the company is called no gym required that was the name of my first book and I've always just been someone who's been super passionate about fitness I love it I think it's really important to have that as a piece of you. You're every day routine to help a success in every other part of your life and so I believe that that is part of why I've had success in other parts of my life because I took fitness seriously and it taught me so much when I did fitness taught me about like I said you before we started the goal setting and it gave me the self esteem and the confidence to kind of go after things because in fitness you set your set goals and once you see yourself achieving those goals right it gives you that confidence to to try for another one and I think like I said the discipline the goal setting the the idea of of having something that you've actually gone after and achieved just once gives you that motivation to keep on going so I believe with my podcast we do a lot of things in health wellness mental health physical health because it's such a huge component. You believe in routine and you said I believe it's my podcast it's called habits and hustle for a reason I think that people are essentially what they do over and over and over again which are habits and habits are part of a routine part of regimen. So how much how much you think it comes down to when it comes down to business because obviously in fitness everyone would relate which is absolutely you need you need to have force of habit you need to go and be disciplined even if you don't want to hit a gym you have to hit a gym there I think most people don't realize how imperative it is when you're on the business and you say it comes down to business as well so when you say habits comes down to business as well and you need the routine in your business and that is why you have that tell us how how how do you go and influence people to understand. Well no what I'm saying is that I two parts not no but two parts I think that people have to have some form of discipline that they're going to do things even when they don't want to do it which is why discipline is so important because most of the time I don't feel like working out most of the time I don't feel like necessarily working what I rather said on a beach but when I have the discipline and I know what my goals are and I know what I want my outcome to be it's those. That's the discipline and it's the routines that I put in place for myself to keep me on point to keep me on track and I think that's what's really important. Before you got here you actually went to the gym you just came from LA and with the hours different you didn't sleep good at night you went first hit the gym did what you need to do got this out of the way and then you showed up over here. Yeah absolutely yes and I noticed that it's imperative it's not even it's not even it's a non-negotiable I will work out and I say this all the time on my social media like do it even when you don't want to and that's what it's about. I work out even when I don't feel like it because it's part it's already ingrained in my DNA it's part of my day it's it's part of my DNA to such a point where if I don't do it I feel like something is missing. And I believe energy begets energy so when people say things like I don't have time to work out I think that's such a but like it's such a load of shit you have time to take a shower you have time to brush your teeth. And I believe like doing something that you're moving your body and you're sweating should be just as ritualistic as brushing your teeth and or taking a shower. Is there a percentage between motivation and discipline? I don't believe in motivation I think what motivation is a very overused word right because you can have motivation one minute and you can and lose it the next. You can't rely on motivation for your success and for getting something done I think discipline is something way more. So you don't attribute any any percentage to motivation. What I said at the beginning of this whole podcast was the only thing that's motivational what motivates me is as is as success I had prior to that that gives me that extra oomph or motivation so to speak quote unquote to move to the next thing. Motivation is something like it has to be something bigger than motivation to get you from point A to point Z right motivation help like you go to Tony Robbins seminar and it can it can give you that motivation to start something the starting is not the problem. It's the middle that's the hardest part right after the motivation wanes and it's you know you're not you haven't reached the pinnacle of what you want to achieve yet so it gets tough and that initial fire that's long gone out right. Absolutely but that point you made was actually very interesting the point you made about if people don't want to go to the gym and they say they don't have time for it it's just an excuse but it's ultimately because I haven't prioritized it. Absolutely. Like I said it's about non-negotiable so certain things that you just make as a non-negotiable how do you do that how do you make it a non-negotiable it is it is my non-negotiable because I've seen how and what it's like when I don't work out but you have to get to a point in your life or you're going to get to a point where you stick to something long enough where you see the you see the benefit and the return on investment right. I would not build motivation so once you say okay first I start with no motivation I start with discipline and I have no motivation to hit a gym or start a business but I still know I have to do it but then once you start seeing results that builds motivation that gives you a different form of energy to go and proceed and convince other people don't you because that where where people are big now is forget motivation it's all about discipline which absolutely agree about discipline is if you have no discipline is it's you know after it doesn't my motivation is going to go away as soon as it's a rainy day right but once you add motivation into it and I think Robert Green said something interesting he said look Einstein without motivation wouldn't go for a decade to come up with that final formula at the end you needed some form of a more motivation infused into a disciplinary process. Well I think that we can reverse engineer here right this is a thing I think we you have to work backwards right I think that you get motivation once you see the return on the investment okay so I know how I'm going to feel if I don't work out and I know how I'm going to feel if I do work out. I also know that it's an excuse that I use on myself when I say oh I'm too tired because there has never been a workout in my life that I've ever regretted doing no matter how tired I am and especially when I'm tired right because when I'm the most tired I still push myself because it gives me that like that oomph that I need that little energy resource that I would never have gone otherwise so the misconception and the mistruth about exercise is that if you it makes you tired if you exert yourself which I think is absolutely wrong. I think that exertion that sweat when you sweat when you put your body through that stress it actually invigorates you it gives you that extra extra extra energy that you need to continue on or to give you the motivation as you want. You want to already in that you already enrolling it's easier to continue. And afterwards you're like you feel better right because it's like you get your your endorphins. So if you've done ice math, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full plunging, you have full emin幾 passiert, you had two, I do want to interject for a second my interjection my interjection for this particular part is exercise is hard because it depending on where you're where you're starting from, you could be going to the gym or working out day to day and not see any results and so therefore that's very not that that's not very motoriatric that's not very motoriatric that's not very motoriatric that's not very motoriatric that's not very motor marrying. It's about sticking with something long enough with that discipline that I talked about that you have to keep on going even when you don't see a result because you have hope. Hope is the thing that I think is very important that you will eventually get to that goal. And once you see a glimpse of that goal that you're going for, whatever it is, it could be weight loss, it could be added energy to your day, it could be health, it could be a lot of different things. That will give you and to your word that you love motivation to keep on going. Because that's what you need, that you need to keep on going until you actually feel a difference when you don't go. And now you get obsessed with it and start to feel that. Well, you get obsessed with the feeling of like, you know what, I don't want to feel like shit. I like to feel on point. To me, at this point in my life, I'm not doing exercise, I'm not exercising daily because I'm trying to get like a six pack and because I like want to like, for vanity reasons. Is there a percentage of vanity? Of course there is and I would be a liar and anybody who tells you they're not working out because... A bunch of bullshit. Yeah, it's a bunch of bullshit. Everyone's working out because they want to look better at some point, okay? But what I am saying really where it mostly falls into, it falls into the mental aspect for me. Because if I would have not worked out today when I got here, even though I haven't slept even an hour, because the time difference and everything else, I would have been a total disaster, not just a half disaster when I showed up today, because I didn't sleep at all, right? But the exercise portion of it gives me much more mental focus and much more alert and much more on point. I'm cognitively much more aware and when I don't, it delves my mental ability. So for me, it's like a win-win, physically, mentally, and everything else. It's like a therapy. For me, it's a therapy. I go to the gym because I need to disconnect from everything I do throughout the day. And that is the only way I can disconnect, otherwise my brain keeps running and running and I need that break. It's meditation. So I'm not somebody who can sit in a position and meditate the way traditionally people think about meditation. My meditation is me running or jogging or cardio. Cardio for me is the time when I can really get into my thoughts, get into my head, and that to me is my form. So again, another misconception, I think that people feel like because it's a fad or it's cool that everyone sits with their legs crossed and their fingertips together and they arm, that's the only type of meditation there can be. But everybody's different. What works for one person doesn't work for another person. I believe that there's lots of different forms of meditation. For me, my kind of personality, I've tried it all. I've tried yoga. It's not my thing. I've tried meditation, not my thing. Have I tried it 75,000 times in every kind of version they're possible? It's all a transformative meditation. I've tried vinyasa, yoga. I've tried this. No. I'm looking at the clock and it does not work for me. I totally relate to that. I have a question. Because if it starts to become part of your mental health, what are some of the things that you see? How has that impacted your life? So for example, if you don't go to the gym, you feel down, you feel like you're not cognitively there. You feel like you're almost like operating in half capacity. I'll give you some examples for me. So for me, I mean, I don't enjoy a really good meal sometimes unless I have a good workout ahead of time. So that's something that I know is silly. It doesn't really mean anything but to me. It makes perfect sense to me. I enjoy a really good meal, but only after I do a good workout. If I travel, if I'm traveling for business, I'll look for hotels that have great gyms. 100%. So this is the big joke. Okay, first of all. Do you do this too? Oh my God. It's funny because the second I get to the hotel I'm staying at, the first thing I do before I even go into, I drop my bag off in my room, maybe, or I don't even bother. I just go right to the gym. It's more important for me to have a functional gym than it is to have a great room. So to me, the biggest highlight or the biggest priority when I pick a hotel, when I travel is definitely what the hotel gym is. To me, it makes the entire trip. It's the biggest, most important part of the trip. If it's a shitty gym, the trip's going to be shit. I agree, 100%. Yeah, that's why I actually travel in New York is so difficult. Yes. Because New York is the worst for hotel gyms to roll down. A hundred percent. The old boutique gym now. No, it's not the same. Never the same. Well, if you have a gym membership, but I mean, if you say in Manhattan, there's nothing. You'll know that you can walk to like equinox. You'll have like boutique gyms. You can go to, but now in New York, I feel it's true. Like there's so many like boutique hotels that they don't even have gyms, or they have like a dumbbell. What about getting a rubber bands with you? Because that's what I usually do. That's great. I mean, resistant bands. Not rubber bands. Yeah, resistant bands. I was in English. Yeah. Well, we can work on that a little bit. No, I think those resistant bands are amazing. Like to me, it doesn't really, again, it's like the meditation thing. It doesn't really matter what you do if it works for you. Right? If it works for you, and you feel like it works, and it's doing the trick, great. No, no. When you're applying it to business, I'll say this. When you start a business, you have no fucking cliff. It's ever going to work. The what? Is that the right business or not? Who knows? Until it actually hits, right? So you're right. Discipline is imperative, but people can go on with a business for a while. And if there is no motivation in between, right, it's going to be hard to continue because you don't know if you have a proof of concept or something. How do you apply this disciplined part to say, okay, look, it doesn't really matter if you made it or not, but the disciplined part of learning curve of business to business. Well, I think it's different. I think that when you're doing a business number one, I think it's super important to be doing a business that you're genuinely passionate and interested in it. And I hate that. Again, I don't want to sit here and throw a lot of these very trendy hashtag words. Do something that you're passionate about because a lot of times you can be doing it. I could be really passionate about makeup when I open boxy charm. What was my passion? Exactly. I'm passionate about watching Serena Williams play tennis, but am I going to become a professional tennis player? No. I feel like I think you have to have some kind of realism when you pick what you're doing, which what I mean by that is like doing something that yet that you enjoy, but you're also it's in your strike zone, you're good at it, right? The question can be the actual business, the building, the creation of the business, the passion. Right. Like to me, I love negotiating. Hmm. Okay, that's not exactly a full time. It could be a business. Actually, it is a business for me a lot of times. I negotiate on behalf of like a lot of business partners I work with and people I oversee and different things I do. I love it. My things, I love the thrill of the chase. I love getting down to like what the deal is going to be, how we're going to do it, who we're going to do it with, kind of like a producer putting the pieces together, right? A, I like it. I'm good at it. So therefore, I should like kind of like do something around that area, right? I feel how people should be picking and choosing what they're going to do and what's going to really drive their success over time is doing something that they have a natural, natural tendency to be, to be good at, right? Like whether they, it's innately something that they're, they're good at. I'm bad at math. So for me to become a physicist or a mathematician or a data analyst or a data. Exactly. You're, you're swimming against the, against the, what did you call it? Against the court. Occurrent. That accent. I thought you said, there's a quarantine. I'm like, what is that? You're accent. You've got to listen very intently. You know, I'm teaching you English. Oh, yes. This is the proper English. This is brilliant. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that there has to be a nice blend. How did you find that for you? Well, number one, I, I think that, you know, naturally, it's not like how did I find, I think a lot of it's trial and error, right? Like I think that people, I think also people do naturally like to do what they're good at, right? Not to use the gym analogy, but I'm going to use another gym analogy, fitness analogy here, right? But like, you know, when girls love to work their lower body, right? Why is it, why is that? It's because we are naturally stronger in our booty and our legs than we are in our upper body. So what happens? We neglect our upper bodies because we're not good at it. We're already weak in that area. So we just forget about it, right? And with guys, it's the opposite, right? Guys like to work their chest and they're up and they're back because they're strong there naturally. And they forget about their legs and they get like these little chicken legs. So I think what happens is we naturally fall into areas in life that we gravitate to areas in life that we are naturally better at, right? But for whatever reason, something happens and it becomes a disconnect with a lot of people and then like they lose their way. And then because of pressure from what their society tells them or their family tells them or what they think they should do, they separate from that. And then they follow a path that's completely not even in line with who they are as people. And that becomes a whole other rabbit hole. But if we actually just like listen to ourselves and like follow what we naturally are inclined to do and what we gravitate to naturally, we end up doing something we naturally are more passionate for, right? So when you ask me my question, it's like, well, I'm always been a very curious person. I've always like to work, I've always very interested in people. So it was a natural progression for me to have a podcast. I've always, I loved what I started exercising at a young age around like 15 or 16. I loved how it made me feel. I was also good at it, right? And I saw results. And so I naturally wanted to kind of keep on pursuing it and keep on like digging deeper into that area. So then I became a trainer and then I like, you know, became, I wrote books on it and I had an app about it and I did all these other things. But you did do a lot of businesses around your hobbies, right? Because you like to work out. You're not just like you're passionate about working out. So whatever you did throughout life was around that, including your podcast, including the brand strategies you were in. No, actually, I started out doing something totally different. That was not really a core interest of mine, which is why I didn't last. And that that's how fitness actually became something that I built a real business around. Because I went to call, I went, you know, I have like my undergrad is in psychology. I have a business degree and, you know, I, my first job was with a basketball team. I worked for the NBA and then I got, I loved music, always loved music. And I got recruited while I was in business school to go work for BMG music. And so I ended up there for a bit. Even though I loved it. What did you do study? In business, I did mostly marketing, sports marketing was my thing. And it was a special program in Canada. It was like a two year sports marketing specialty. And I did an internship with IMG. And I had all the cool jobs like Nike and this and that. And I loved them all because it was like, it was in the periphery of like, it was in the periphery of activity and fitness, but it really wasn't the fitness part. But anyway, so when I went to, when I went to BMG and did my, I was, I was marketing. I became like the head of marketing. And I got a job to come to LA to work for a different label. It wasn't like, again, it wasn't like I was like super like in love with. I liked it. I was good at it. But was I like, was I like throwing myself in there to work for 50 hours a day? No. So I, when I left that, I'd be, I decided to become a trainer, a personal trainer, just until I figured out what the hell to do with my life. Because I was really young and I fast-tracked. And so when I did that, I was also Canadian. So I wasn't allowed to work legally in the US. So I was kind of stuck kind of being very, I didn't have much, I had to be very, I had to pick something that was easily how I can make money into the table, so to speak. So I became a trainer. And that's when I had that aha moment, as Oprah would say. And I thought, okay, you know what? Now that I'm, I'm now a personal trainer, I have my certification. I took my contacts and I took everything I knew from the music world, back into the music world, made a deal and negotiated this job. But I created for myself, which was a label trainer, to train talent for music videos and to train them for a tour. So I... To train them in a gym? Yeah. So I went from being a marketing person, running the budgets and marketing for all this talent and creating, marketing campaigns. But then that's interesting. So that job wasn't, it didn't exist. You just showed them there is a gap in the market and you said, you need them to be fit. You need them to come ready. Let me train them. Yeah, it wasn't that there was a gap in the market. There was no market for it. I knew they were doing it already. There was trainers, you know, personal trainers. But I figured this is, I was taking two worlds. I was taking transferable skills, right? We all have transferable skills. We all have things that we did before in our past that we can utilize for what we're doing in our present or take them for the future. And that's what I did. I took things that I was naturally good at, which were relationship building. But that did not exist before you told them about this, right? Well, I'm sure it existed to some extent. Not as a service. I'm not going to say it. I'm not going to say it. I'm not going to say it. I'm not going to say it. Let me say this. Well, I don't know if anyone else was doing it because I didn't give a shit, which if anyone else was doing it, I was thinking about my, I was thinking, listen, now I love the exercise. I want to pursue that, that path. But I have, I have relationships and I have an opportunity where I never wanted to ever cat myself at like a certain amount of money, right? So if I was a trainer, if I was working at Equinox, right, or working at any other gym, I would only be able to make, make, make up your number 100 bucks an hour, 50 bucks an hour, right? And I'm only making that money if that person shows up, right? Now you can charge late fees, whatever, whatever, or just charge. My point is you're capped at the amount of money you're allowed to charge somebody based on that hour service. So my idea was a little bit more in depth, which was what if I went to someone and became a retainer, if I put myself on a retainer where you pay me five grand a month, and I will train your staff. And if they show up or not, I'm still getting paid. Number one, most of the time, a lot of times people don't show up. They like are late. I didn't want to like have that hurt my, my, I guess, my bank account. So that's why I had this idea of going to the label. So it was a better way to trade your time for money. No, it was much more of a secure, a way that I was securing myself an exact amount of money per month. So let's say I was making five, okay, and then I know I'm making $2,000 a month, $5,000 a month, not like randomly. No, is that your high moment that you said about that? No, my, my, my, my, a high moment was I wanted to be a trainer. I wanted to do something more than train hourly. So that was my idea because I already had the relationships with the people at the label and I saw there to be an opportunity because all those people, all the talent, they, I know what they do. I know how they spend their money. I know what they do to get ready for a video. I know what they do to get ready for a tour. It requires a lot of physical training. It requires certain kind of diet so they can be at their best version. So when they go out there and do a show for two and a half hours, they're at their best. So I said to, I went to the president of a one label and I said, listen, this is what I want to do. Pay me X amount of dollars. I will train everybody and, you know, let's see if it works. And he was very confused because I was not a person that was like in his, remember, people meet you. They think of you as how they met you first, right? He thought of me as a, like a music marketing person. He wasn't thinking of me as like a personal trainer, physical trainer for Britney Spears, right? He was thinking like, how am I going to make money from this music campaign that I'm putting together with one of our retailers with HNV or tower records, right? Like it did, it was like kind of a disconnect, like wait, you were doing this with this budget. And now you want to come in here and do squats and lunges with, you know, Britney Spears, I'm confused. But, you know, I was, I was confident that I could do the job. And the truth is the out was, if it doesn't work out, then don't pay me. Don't pay me that month. Give me one month. So I think the trick is also when you're, when you're doing something like that is don't, don't make, don't put the onus on someone else to say no, like give them every pot, like give them every reason to say yes and no reason to say no, right? So if you didn't have to pay me if it didn't work out, then what what's there's no risk. So don't give them a risk, right? And so he's like, all right, I guess that's fine. Let's see what happens. And it worked out well because I knew how to like, I knew their talent already. I knew how their budget worked. I knew a lot of the internal business things that other people in the outside wouldn't know. So I knew how to make it work. And so one label turned into another that turned into another. And by the, you know, eventually I had. So you're saying you're saying, so once you already know the politic of one business and you have one or two skill sets, you might find another, another opportunity on another business that have some similarities or skill set that no one uses in that category already know the politic, you know, the people involved, you have the relationship, you can just apply. I'm saying use your assets, using your good at and then and then amplify them. That's what I'm saying. Amplify the assets that you were already given, right? And not don't be afraid of what if someone says no, don't be afraid if it doesn't work out, what's the worst that can happen? My entire brand is based on this one phrase, which is what is the worst that can happen? You're not, you're no better, we're no worse off now than you would have been yesterday by if, if I'm not even trying, right? So like, I think that you have to like lean really hard into what you're good at. What are those assets and then like just double down and double down and then like go for it one. And if it doesn't work out, then you pivot, it doesn't work out, you try again, but you don't know unless you know, unless you try. So I knew I loved fitness, I knew the music world, I took, I was very, and so what I did was I took transferable skills, I took something that I kind of really knew to an era that I really wanted to be in, and I kind of like merged them together into an opportunity and do this when you're young. And I'm not saying that you can't do it when you're old, but I think you have to do a lot of trial and error when you're young to really know what you want to do. As opposed to just like picking something and being like, this is what I want to do. And then when you're in middle age, being like, I don't really want to do it. Yeah, you can change your career. Of course, anyone can change it any time. I'm a big proponent of ages is really just a number and you can do whatever you want whenever you want. But I do believe when we the less we know, the more the better it is, right, naïve to me is a huge strength. Because if you don't know something, if you don't know, you're much more apt to take that risk, right. Now 20 years later, if I knew it, if I actually didn't know, you can also disrupt an industry if you didn't know, because there are taboos that every industry creates where they say, oh, we know not to do that. And then it's just a law that was out there and no one is trying until someone new shows up, Elon Musk shows up, let's just do electric cars. It's kind of work, but he keeps on, he keeps on and eventually he changes the industry, right. It becomes an industry. It doesn't even, doesn't even change an industry. Yeah, I don't want to be an industry or something. It goes, goes to the space, right. I'm going to bring the rocket back his crazy boom brings it back. The worst thing you can say, this is the way it's always been done. That kills any innovation. Of course. And that happens with most people, right. A lot of times, you know, in my, like, I've had like, and I'm sure you guys too, like, you've had these ideas and then people burst your bubble. And they're like, oh, you got like, that's already done or that's like, that's already. We don't do it that way or this happens. And so like, you lose that again, I always go back to this hope thing. You lose that hope and that, and that inspiration to do it because you're listening to too many people. See, I have this, this thing that I just ignore everyone. I say that I also, I agree. And I also don't believe, that's why I talk about the fact that, like, I don't believe in even having mentors necessarily. Because I think everybody is going to be giving you their, they're going to mold you to something. And mold you to what their experience has been. And no one's. Are you familiar with this brand? It's a skinker brand called. Touchings. I think it calls touch and soul. It's a Brazilian brand. And the Brazilian brand, the, the owners were actually industry people. It's a two Korean ladies and. What's it called? I want to say touch and soul or. Solder general. I'm sorry. Solder general. Solder general. And they said that the first rule they learned when they went into the. Laurel and louder when they started their run is that no matter what you do, you never do a white cap for your packaging. White cap and a yellow component underneath it. So you don't want to have a white cap and yellow. It doesn't work. So the first thing they did with the first item. Cup. Yes. Cup. Cup. To close the. If you have a jar. Uh-huh. The jar should not be yellow and the tap and the cup should be white. Why? A rule in the beauty industry. No one ever does this because someone said not to do it. So the first thing they did was let's make it yellow and white. And guess what? That's the only one that stood out on Sephora and that blew out. No. Yes, it was making a killing. So when someone tell you don't do it, ask why not? If they don't have a straight answer, go ahead and try it. They were just industries that are diners or industries that it took. They needed some shaking. They needed someone to modify those industries. And when you look at any traditional industry that was just hard to enter until it wasn't, especially now with social media, you can almost any industry you can come into. It was it needed a disruption. And you you find that when I started boxing was just why you give us all those rules before you even start thinking about what's important. And you find out someone that's not from the industry only think about what's important. And all those taboos on those new first new steps you have to do it. You don't think about it. So all your moves are critical because it's urgent and important. You don't do anything that you don't have any waste in your time in your meetings. It's only about what's important and that's what you grow. This is actually a big issue with startups when startups try and hire really experienced talent. Yes, exactly. And then you bring in this experienced talent. And the founder is super creative. They they've never been in the industry. They want to build something brand new. Then you bring in this experienced talent and there's like a snuffer like on that candle right? Yeah. It kills everything. And then you slowly slow down and then you don't have speed and you don't have velocity because everything has to be done the way it's always been done. Yeah, that's 100% true. And that's why I could not agree with you more. I see that. You see this. I'm sure with the brand. I see that all the time. And stuff with me. Like I think I come to everything with such a naivety, right? Like I get all these. It's actually awesome. Which is I think I mean listen, I think that I think it is. And then that's why I don't allow. I've seen it. It's happened before many times in my life and my career. I get my best ideas. What I'm running on a treadmill. I don't know why. I just. That's my meditation. That's my meditation. And I get my best ideas. And there's been many times when I like I jump off the treadmill and I like get my I get this inspiration. And I say and I say and I say it to somebody. And they're like oh my god that's so stupid or that's not going to work. And then like it like it really like it takes the wind out of your sales. And then I never pursue it. And then I see like a year two years later. It's just happened before. That happened. Someone else did it. And it became like a massive success. So number one, that's the first thing I was going to say. Number two, I also feel like again, this hope is such a big thing. But I think that that's why when you speak to somebody sometimes it's best not to to to either have one or two people that you really kind of value their opinion. But honestly like that naivety like I think when you surround yourself with people who haven't done it before you get way more value. Then going around a lot of people that are way too experienced because that's what makes them so myopic. And that's when they can only see what's in front of them. And to me that's like that's like it that's like the stop is in the start. Then you don't even do it because someone's already taking out that hope and that like interest. So I feel like I feel like the commonality when you when you follow this particular process because you came from an industry and you're doing what everyone else is doing is that you can't like standing traffic. Because we're all going the same direction instead of someone you that comes in and they just move to the left lane that's empty. And we don't go there. Why I don't know. Just don't we're all staying in that lane. We're like she is like being cheap like people just like follow the herd. Because someone it's because one person's done it doesn't mean that or because just because someone has not done it or because it's it's scary to do something different. Doesn't mean that you shouldn't be doing something different and doesn't mean it's not it's not going to be successful right because the only way to it to disrupt anything is to disrupt something right to do it a different way. That's the definition of that is the definition of disruption is to do it a different way or to do it. Like Elon Musk is a great example. Who would have thought in a million years that there would be down every single car company is now making an electric car. And the kind of backlash that he was getting. I mean I remembered an interview where someone told him that during the time when he just started Tesla he was talking in a conference and CEO Mercedes was sitting next to the reporter and he told him aren't you going to do electric car. And the guy doesn't know what he's doing he's going to fail. And now look at Mercedes trying to copy me like a decade later. Right. Elon Musk is doing so. And that's coming from Mercedes. I mean there are innovators supposedly they're good but here it is. So it can happen to everybody. But you know when when we're looking at kind of like what we're doing that there's always mistakes that we did we're kind of a learnable lesson. There are good mistakes like good we did this. Do you have any kind of experience where you made you messed it up and you kind of learned you did this. You're happy you did this because you learned something. Yes I think that I'm going to say that I think sometimes someone's best quality is also there can be their worst quality. And I think for me that is extremely impulsive. And sometimes I do things again out of that like excitement and naïveté in a way or just actually a lot of times in this regard to excitement. And I've done a lot of different things where if I would have just like taken a breath and taken a beat and and step back. I wouldn't have shot myself on the foot as much times. And I did that with my first company called No Jim Required. And I made it. It was like a good example. What happened with it? I punched him in the face. I shouldn't have done this. Yeah right. I did a deal with somebody who I you know it was a it was a shoe deal. And I spent a lot of money on the legalities I was like my first company I've ever done. And I really desperately wanted to do the deal. And this is another thing right. Like sometimes if you want something so bad it's like you you can't see the forest in front of the trees right. Like you'll make up every excuse like there was a lot of red flags. Yeah. Why shouldn't have done that deal. I wanted to do it so badly. To me it was such a sign of six that I that I've like that I've succeeded or that I like that the work I did pay off. If I got this big deal that I just didn't want to like see all the red flags. And there were a lot of red flags and long story short I made the deal. And once the papers were technically signed. And we started it would turn out to be a whole different thing than I thought it was going to be. And I had to get out of the deal. And it cost it was it was a fortune to get out of the deal. And relationships were fractured because of it. And it just it really just it basically didn't end well for me. So you know a lot of times perception is not reality. I can sit here and say oh yeah I had a great exit with my first company because technically I did. I was I got acquired by someone but it was a shitty deal. And it didn't end well for me. And I didn't make much money. I actually ended up losing money from all the legal bills. So I guess why I'm saying this is that sometimes is I think it's sometimes as I talk a lot and my my new book is called bigger better bolder because I think it's extremely important to be bold and really chase what you want and not take what you get. And really go after those things. But I think it's also really important to be mindful of who you're getting in bed with both figuratively and literally right. And then take a beat because a lot of times we can act with a foresight and then we can really regret are what we did and it's hard to unwind. So. But that actually that point that you're making right now that came from your original point which was that excitement can be a bad thing. But also it can be a good blessing and a curse. It's a blessing and a curse and I think most of us have our best qualities can be our worst qualities and it's about knowing and and being able to discern for when it's when it's working for what. Like I think that you can take you can take three steps forward and six steps back sometimes if you're not if you're not conscientious of what you're doing. I totally I can give us an example. I have a million because I can relate I'm very impulsive to and I think that many times I felt myself should have shut the fuck up and listen and ask more questions before I come up with a conclusion. And I found myself I found that that's what I do to I talk sometimes way more than I should and then I can feel you know it all and yeah or I feel like I can't just I just I'm excited and I I don't want I don't want there to be that silence or I don't want there to be that moment where I lose the deal. Tell me if you feel the same that impulsive people are they we are very much kind of urgency for us every urgency. I mean sense of urgency. Yeah sense of urgency. That's exactly how I feel. And I think with sense of urgency. Yeah we we end up breaking eggs here and there but overall we capture momentum is better than 100% that's what it's a blessing and a curse. And my further along maybe then I am my further along maybe then I would have been I think 1000% I am has it has it broken a few eggs if not a few dozen eggs and ruffle a few feathers 100%. But I think at the net net net like I'm still I'm still out much I'm out further than I would have been. If you hadn't if you hadn't been Paul's if you hadn't in that deal you would have been in that company for longer you wouldn't have had this crappy exit you wouldn't maybe you wrote it out for another 10 years. Yeah exactly. And maybe that was a waste of your time all the other opportunities came to you after and maybe because you got burnt. I don't know how bad maybe you got burnt a little bit from this partnership. Maybe it was a good thing you got burnt earlier on so that you didn't get burnt later on with a bigger deal. Well I think there's two things I first I think it's really important for anybody listening to for people that have a come to Jesus with themselves on a regular basis. Right because a lot of times we try to we try to fool ourselves or we do fool ourselves and trick ourselves into why we're doing what we're doing and we end up doing things for the wrong reasons. If we took a step back or just didn't do anything I took a pause and thought of why we're doing it in the first place we can save ourselves a lot of pain and anguish. I think that's the first thing the second thing I have to say to what you said is you know there's a whole I don't want to like bore you with this whole idiom but there is a really good one that you know one thing if if one thing didn't happen then the other thing wouldn't happen. I'm going to tell you I'm going to tell you the story you may have heard it and if it's too long you can edit it out okay but I'm going to tell it to you anyway okay. Have you heard about the Chinese farmer the story with the Chinese farmer maybe maybe maybe with the sound that yes I haven't heard it okay I want to tell you okay and if you don't like this. No I love it I think it's a great story okay it's your podcast so you can always edit it out okay but I was like this story like hit like always hits home for me every time. So I'm going to share it with you okay this this is it so and if you can interject if you like the Chinese there's a Chinese farmer he loses a horse is that the first part of it. Go on with this because it can be told in different ways but I'm I'm interested I'm interested told I don't want about me I love everything you saying go ahead. Go go first of all just so you know he's not like an expert in Chinese farmer's story so I am senior 15 years in university just about farmers in China. That's why you know you nailed the intro this is how you shake the comfort and tell you know the story maybe I don't know. It doesn't even know the story so he probably saw it on like he probably saw like a hashtag with Chinese farmer. I'll tell you later I'll tell you later the one I know but let's see if it's even the same one. And the only reason why I said that just FYI was because I think I forgot the beginning of the story but I'm going to try it now. The answer is why does he have to be a Chinese farmer. It doesn't make any sense it can be an Israeli. It can be an Israeli farmer a Mongolian farmer. The biggest difference he's picked was Mongolian farmer what about America right by there so they get confused they show a big border together. Who knows. It's not going to happen because they wouldn't get confused on that. It can be any any race farmer. Any race farmer. Okay but for the purpose of the story this is the story of the Chinese farmer. Yes. Okay so there's a Chinese farmer. Okay he has a wild horse that went running that ran away. Okay. That's not the one I know. It's not. Don't worry about it. Just go keep on going. We love the story. It's already better than mine. What's the first sentence of your story then we're going to go back to mind. That's the thing I don't remember my first sentence. I just remember the whole story. Okay I'm going to try my story. Yes. Okay. There's a Chinese farmer. Okay. He has a wild. He has a pack of wild horses. His most prized wild horse runs away. Okay. All his neighbors and the people in the in the in the in the small community come running to him. They're like oh my god that's so terrible. I can. What are you going to do now? You need that. That's that very famed wild horse. Oh my. That's terrible for you. And the Chinese farmer very calmly says well maybe. And so the next day. I'm an expert in Chinese stories. Okay. The next day. Do you remember the next. Do you remember the next sentence? I do. I do. Just continue. Don't worry about it. Well I forgot the next sentence. So the story is that after that they told them look it's a good thing we found the horse. He said the good thing he said maybe. Then he's son right over. Okay. Okay. Got it. I'm taking over. Yeah. It's okay. So the guys. So the Chinese farmer. Yeah. The Chinese farmer said I'm going to start the story from the beginning now. Of course. You can rewind it on the podcast. Do we have to delete it? You can edit that. I'm not editing any of this. You can edit. You can edit that if you want. I'm sorry again. The story. This is the story. The story is there's a Chinese farmer with a pack of wild horses. His most prized wild horse runs away. Looses that wild horse. All of his neighbors, all the people in the community. What rent to his house? They couldn't believe this. They're like oh my god. What are you going to do? That's so horrible for you. Lost your prized wild horse. And the Chinese farmer says maybe the next day. The wild horse comes back. Everyone is like just just elated. They run to the Chinese farmer's house again. They're like oh my god. You must be so happy that the wild horse is back. The Chinese farmer says maybe the same day later on that day. The Chinese farmer's son goes on a horse ride with the wild horse. Falls off breaks his ankles and his legs. And the people in the community and the neighbors run back to the Chinese farmer and say oh my god you must be so upset. I can't believe this happened. Now your son has these broken legs and you must be so like just horrified. The Chinese farmer says maybe the next day. A bunch of people show up at the Chinese farmer's house because they are looking to. They need people for the army and they are going house to house. Getting all the boys to go to fight in the army. They saw the Chinese farmer's son. The Chinese farmer's son could not go anywhere because he had these broken legs. And the neighbors, the community, come running back to the Chinese farmer's house. And they're like oh my god you must be so happy because now your son is free. He doesn't have to go fight in the army. You must be so relieved. The Chinese farmer says maybe the point and the moral of the story is you never know how one thing is going to affect another thing. So even if something doesn't work and if it's a failure or a total colossal failure, it can be a real success. It can really change the whole trajectory of your life in a really positive, impactful, most important way. But you don't know that whole story. So you can't take one piece, one chapter or one page and think that's going to be the entire thing. Because it's the accumulation of the entire life that really tells you the real story. Absolutely. And this is exactly what it is. You have a mistake in a business. How old were you when it happened? 22, 32. Are you dead? No. You're going to learn. You have many more years to go. That's going to teach you now. If you keep doing this, a mistake. I mean, I've seen situations where I had people working for me and you see them making mistakes again and again. And they think it was actually good and they want to double down. And my analogy was you attacked Russian winter. And now you want to do it every winter. Just do you haven't learned? So if you are learning from your mistakes, mistakes are teachers. And mistakes are a good thing for you to continue. Because you need those mistakes. And if you didn't have mistakes, you didn't try hard enough. Because you're just on your comfort zone. And you're not taking that. Yeah, you're not taking that. I mean, yes. But I think with this, with the story that I was telling you guys. You're sorry are the parable. The parable story. Yeah, the story that I was trying to like explain over and over again with you. I think the real moral of that story isn't about that. It's about the fact is like you can't count yourself out for a failure or for a misturn or something that didn't go your way. Because you don't know what the entire story is. You haven't finished it. You haven't finished that. You haven't finished the story. Literally the biggest issue with that is that nobody, many people don't look at life that way. So a negative event happens and then it's downward spiral. That's true. That's a big issue for a lot of founders. And they also connect failures. I felt here and then they remember all the failures. They connect all that they said. No, it's not. I always remember the failures. Yes. Well, to be honest with you, I don't remember. I think it's the opposite. I think I don't remember. I failed at almost everything I've ever done. But I don't remember anything. If you ask me all the things like when people ask me this all the time on podcasts or interviews, they're like, give me your top three failures. I mean, yeah, I know. I can name a few of them. But if I actually like, I can't, I've been failing for so many years that it become, it's so part of again, who I am, it doesn't make a difference. If I failed, it obviously didn't like, it didn't, it didn't deter me or didn't like, it didn't detract me from trying again and again and again. The, the thing about that is that you can't allow just something that didn't work out this. And by the way, this is not just business. I'm talking about life. I'm talking about relationships. Just because you broke up with someone or you had a failed marriage or you had a failed business, doesn't mean that you're not going to be successful on the next, on the next round. Right? So you can't let something that didn't work out change the trajectory of what you're going to try to do because you're stuck and what didn't work. I think, I think a lot of what I've done is I've been able to like get myself up and brush, brush off whatever happened and have a really short-term memory of that loss to try for something else. And I think having that short-term memory, so to speak, or not allowing that, that rumination, that marination and dwelling of all that negative what ifs to kind of change and deter you from trying again. Because you don't know the end of the story. You can kiss a lot of frogs and be out with a lot of jerks and then you know, find your Prince Charming like 40, you know, when you're like 65 years old. I've met a woman really recently actually who was married for 40 years to a man. She wasn't unhappy, but she wasn't happy and met the love of her life and she's now 79 years old. I mean, you don't know what you don't know, but you can't just stop living because you're just afraid of what could maybe happen. Yeah, I guess the way people look at things are that you have a couple, a few times of people, right? And it's always going to be like this. You have people that break and it's hard for them to mentally get up because that was their image. And some other people just, just about the last men standing for them. They are going to continue, just they're relentless, no matter how bad it is. So you can see it also on social media. Some people were going through some drama, got cancelled and they never get through this. They just decided to take it to the extreme. Some people have committed suicide over being cancelled. Exactly. Who? Those people. People. I don't have names, I've taught my head, but I know that I've seen stories about people that have cancelled. I know people in the beauty industry that were cancelled ended up in a hospital because of the stress. I think bullying. Never came back. I think being cancelled, being bullied, but I think the bullying is what's really, really. What's the difference between not and cancellation? I don't see a difference. I think there is a difference. I have a free friend who've been cancelled on social media and they just don't give a fuck and they're just doing their life outside. Because they handled it better. Right, but being bullied is when people are like are, are shaming you for something over and over and over again. I think there's a difference. Yeah, that's a difference. It's a difference in cancellation. That's different in cancellation. What I think a bigger question here that maybe you guys want to answer is like can you teach somebody how to be relentless if it's not something that's naturally in your bones? That's the question. That would be your discipline. The discipline part. I would be the best advice. Just continue posting. If it's on social media, continue posting. Eventually you learn that it dies off and after the first time, the second time is not as hard. I know a guy like that. I think that's a very smart point is that that and anything in life and it's that it's that continual truck the continual of doing it over and over again that makes you immune to the negative. Yes. The potential negative outcome. That's what I actually talk about. I have a whole thing called the 10% target, which is all about that becoming desensitized to failure. Desensitized to to someone saying no where you do it so many times, it becomes it doesn't even affect you anymore. It's like water off a duck's ass. Yes. Is that a saying? Now it is. All right. You heard that saying. You know what though? The first word in your podcast habits, that's what I think is actually allows you to. Yes. That's how you teach discipline. Quote unquote. Yes. That's how you teach it. So I don't have to teach discipline. If I could teach you that every day to post on social media, you should wake up and from, you know, eight to nine a.m. You write a post and you push it out. I don't have to teach you anything. I have to tell you the framework and then if you have to commit to doing that for a long and a period of time, you'll see the results. So you just say something also that commit. People don't want to commit. People don't want to commit for long periods of time. You have to quantify the outcome. The difference between winners and losers are people who persevere for longer than others. That's the all over it. That's all it is. I think it has nothing to do with anything else, but that's what makes somebody. It's like that's relentlessness. That is perseverance. The only difference between a winner and a loser is how long you stay committed to what you're trying to do and not give up. You know what you're saying is a classic. The classic example for this is when you go through negotiation. If you're getting divorced, it didn't happen to me, but for some people go through divorce. Usually there's that one day that we're sitting down and we're going to finish this and it can start at 12 and it can end at 4 a.m. At that time, it happened actually with us with negotiation when we saw the boxy charm. It was at 4 a.m. At that point, when one pushes the other towards something, you see who's the last man standing because, you know what? Just say, give it to them and you had those red lines, but you're going to start crossing them because of that one night. If you go in with a mindset of like, it's about the last man standing. I'm going to continue and I'm okay with walking away with nothing and start a war. Or if it's a divorce, whatever it is. Partners splitting up their business, anything else. That day, when you sit down with your lawyers and they have their lawyers and you're there to finish this, that is probably going to be about the ones that understand what they're entering. And it's player versus player until the end. And it's anything else in life, right? It's about anything else in life. If you continue doing this. Now, how do you tell someone that just doesn't have a product market feed? Anything she has to continue trying to sell that product that doesn't have a market feed. Where is it? Where you need to say, okay, this is not about discipline in the last man standing. This is about you needing to modify your product because the market. Yeah, that's a whole thing. How do you go to someone and tell us? No, it's not. I'll tell you why. Let me draw a parallel between fitness and business. Why fitness? Because it's another thing that you need to split with. Oh, it's hard with that part. Yeah. If you're saying, how do you know if somebody has product market fit and they're trying, trying, trying with their business not working. What if you're doing a worker routine? It's not yielding results over six months a year. Like, how do you, how do you understand when it's time to cut it? Try something you modify and you tweet. How do you know? Like, that's what you're asking. Not seeing any return on your investment. But I think it's, I'll tell you why I think it's different. We talked about this earlier, you and I, right? I think if you have a shitty product, do you have a shitty product? All that you could have, you know, it's the product first marketing second. Yes. That's right. With fitness, if you're not seeing a return on your investment, if you're not seeing the result that you're trying to get, that's when you have the tweak and modify. Right? That's, I think that that's different thing. You would decay every day. You would decay. Exactly. You start to, I can give you things you can do, quantifiable things. Are you journaling? Are you writing down everything you're eating? Are you, are you doing heavy enough weight? Are you doing, you know, are you working out? Are you consistent? Are you blah, blah, blah, right? If you have a shitty product, you have a shitty product. You can go, okay, how can I modify and tweak this? Is the product, you know, why isn't the product working? Could it be who, how can we make it better? Is it, could we make it faster? I don't know what the product is. Could we make it, make it faster? Well, how can we make it more? Was the product that you, like, so you've had, you've had the, my shoe? Not the shoe, but the, you sold the app to eight. The app, by the way, and I'm not just saying this because I was involved, the app was extraordinary for one main reason besides lots of other reasons. It's the user, if you're going to have an app, which is a tech company, have the tech work. It was extremely user-friendly, right? And it was easy to use. If you're in a tech space, make sure the tech is working. If you're in the fitness space, make sure your fitness program has great testimonials and the product and that thing works. Be exceptional in whatever area that you are supposed to be exceptional in. I think I personally believe that what we do, we all try to throw a big heavy net, like a big net on everything and be, be everything to everyone. I think what you should be doing is street, it's focusing and be really, really, really good in one area. And then when you get that marketplace, then you can expand outwards, right? I think what a lot of brands are doing, like, you know, muscle milk did this back when years ago when I was working with them. Another company, Jim Weed, who is now doing this, who I like their companies, and I can name other brands too that do this, some do this very well. If you want to be an energy drink, right, or like a functional energy beverage, right? Sell to those people first in the fitness business, like sell to the crossfitters, sell to the people who are actually doing it day in, day out, capture and get that market. Once you've got them, then you can expand to the general public, right? Like niche down first. Like niche down first and really just make that, make your product, like make it so good to the people who are actually going to be using it every single day. And then you can, like, and then you can, you know, and then you can, like, and then you can kind of expand. But what I see a lot of people doing now is they try to throw a lot of shit at the wall and they try to, like, they water down their usage and their product by trying to be everything to everyone, versus being one thing to one person because you can find way more success in that way. You know, you know what I like that because when I was running the company, I kind of learned that if you want to build a passionate community, it's not about the size of the community. It's about the passion of the community. Yes. And you usually need to find commonality and they have to be in the same space and they have to activate together. So it has to be a small, retired group, people that are already connected that would be talking about your product as a new product and get passionate around. Absolutely agree with you. 100. And this is what we were saying earlier. This is about social media in general, right? Everyone is so concerned about the number they have on how many followers do you have? How many followers do you have? It doesn't matter how many followers you have. If you don't have an engaged community, you can't do shit with those followers, right? So you can buy as many followers as you want. But if those people are not interacting with whatever you're doing, it's a useless way. You can't monetize it for shit. So why spend your energy time money on it? Like I'd rather have 5,000 followers that are super engaged and active where I can create an actual legitimate business around, where I can build a community, you know, sell products that are like minded with them, versus 5 million with four people who are barely engaged. Yeah, 5,000, 5,000 very engaged people are going to be so loud that can bring out so many people and it's going to be very pervasive for anyone that starts talking to them about your product and they'll bring in a lot more versus having 500,000 passive, non-engaged followers or even 5 million that's absolutely nothing. So the numbers of people is about how, the challenge is how do you take all those evangelists and put them together, right, in the same place? Because if you put them... No, the question is how do you find those evangelists? How do you find them? I think that there's... The problem is that there's so much... There's so many and so much of everything that it's very hard to find your community because you might be a great product and you might be selling something that's great and you might have all the right intentions behind it but how do you get... How do you build that community? When they're... Let's say you're trying to do a beauty company like you're saying. Let's say you have a clean beauty line and you have beautiful makeup that's clean, paraben-free and has no chemicals but you're already competing with the beauty counter who has millions of people and they have a huge engagement and they have a huge community. How do you disrupt if you have a better product if they have all those people? If you don't have the money and if you don't have the money... Yes, so creativity comes a long way so I'll tell you the way I believe in. Your job is to make sure that people wouldn't just go and talk about you but also create pages and groups about your company. How can you influence them to do it? So you find the first one and then you start talking to that first one and you get on your page whatever engagement you send your people to that person's page intuitively would create a lot of people's intuitions that if I'm going to create a page about that company I'm going to start having followers then more starts creating those pages. Yeah. And then before you know it, it can be very progressive. How do you do that, though? Sorry. So in my experience when I was doing this and I think it was, I mean, it's kind of like easier when we had boxy because boxy, let's just say at one point we had 200,000 followers on Instagram. Later on we got two millions but the point is some people started creating a page about boxy charm to exchange products on Facebook, so I joined them. And I would go and talk on the boxy charm page saying you want to know what's next months in a box you're not going to hear it over here, go to those pages. So from one day to another they went from say a thousand people on their groups to 20,000 people. And then more people wanted to do the same and everyone that before you know it, you had a hundred people doing those Facebook groups and I joined them all. And I would do the same on Instagram and our fan pages on Instagram. So I said, you talk about boxy, I'll support you. I'll help you grow. And then they would do the job bringing all the people they would go and work for you kind of like on an MLA and knocking on doors, telling people, hey, do you want to buy incyclopedia? That's what they're end up doing. And you influence few people, 200, but eventually you had hundreds of thousands because of those 200s. The one group would 90,000, one in 20,000. But yeah, because you had a small group of super, super engaged people who really genuinely like love that thing and they were your salesman. They were the ones who did it. You know, that's like the same with Instagram or anything else. It's the 80-20 rule, right? That's in life. It works in everything. That's what it works. This is so strong. It's the first one and you didn't finish it. Well, listen, do you know how strong? It's called Don Julio Primavera in 1942. What's the difference between this one and the other Don Julio? So this is more of a special edition and this is the traditional Don Julio Blanco Reposado? No. No. This one says Takila. Yeah, you're right. This is Reposado. I don't know if this is Blanco, but I don't know. This is a Nejo. Sorry, is a Nejo. What's the difference? I think Blanco is like white. Yeah, I like that one. The Blanco and Nejo. Where does it take a Nejo over here? On the label. So what's a Nejo? Because I know what Blanco is. I don't know what it actually means. Oh. I don't know what it means. But this one says Primavera. Oh, okay. This one says Primavera, which means spring. Got it. Okay. I'm not trying to brag, but I do speak some Spanish. Again, don't want to be. Could I tell you something really funny? I literally took a sip of a sip and I'm a little drunk. It doesn't take much. It doesn't take much. And also, I've been saying since I got here, how hungry I am. So the combination of being super hungry, and then taking a sip of this. You want more shots? You want to try this one? Not a good combo. What? You want to try this one now? I do, but I'm going to be like falling off the chair. And yet, I have anything to do. I'll give you this one. Chug it. What am I in, like, that spring break and can't cook? I mean, how long do I mean you want to eat? Chug, chug. We can make it faster. If you finish this, then I get you this, and then we go eat. How about we finish the podcast? I go eat something, and now I'll have something to eat. So I don't fall off my chair in a drunken mess and embarrass myself. This is a stable chair, but, okay, that's, I don't think, I don't think you're going to fall. All right. So we're talking, we're serious people, but let's talk business. Now I understand the whole thing now. Now it's going to work. Now it's going to work. I understand. You're, you're demanded on coming at, during the day. I didn't understand why you wanted me here at night, really, but now I do. Yeah. So you can have a drink, you can relax, exactly, versus at noon. When did we start talking about doing our break time, where we say, let's talk about this. Talking about fillers and stuff like that. Oh, no, we're talking about, we're looking at people on social media, and we're talking about how L.A. can be, you know, people look fake there. And I said, I see people looking fake everywhere. And you said, I don't like when they look fake in the face. Yeah, I think I think that there's a point where they fuck themselves up, because they don't see the reality of what they really look like, and they don't stop with fillers and more fillers. Some of them can really look good, but then they go all crazy, they go, and then, so that's, that's where like, you know, do whatever you want, but then, you can really move. That's what you said, move to do whatever you want. What is the side effect of what you were speaking about before? People have this like social media, like they just need to have validation through social media, and they need to have more followers, they need to like look a certain way, a certain way. I think that all of this, not all of it, but a lot of it comes from like social media. I think also what I think, yes, I agree. But what I was going to say is, I think like anything else, it can happen kind of so slow that it pervasively, like, gets into your world where you don't know the difference between what's reality, and what's not reality anymore. It's like you're used filters constantly, so when you see yourself in a real mirror without a filter, you can freak out. You're like, oh my god, this is what I really look like, because you trick yourself into this like alternate reality, which is so dangerous. There are multiple requests now. It's known that the request now going to a plastic surgeons by Gen Z is to go and match what you see in filters, where they make a different type of face shape, they modify the face, and it was just a matter of time until it's going to happen. It's really actually so sad. I see these beautiful girls, these young girls in their 20s, young 20s, and they're addicted to plastic surgery because of that reason, because they're so accustomed to using Snapchat filters, IG filters, to what I just said, it's like they don't even, they think that they're ugly now in real life, which is a huge problem, be it's so pervasive in your life, and it affects you in so many other ways, like the low self-esteem, and insecurity, and lack of confidence, it's just terrible, and I don't see it getting any better. It's in fact getting worse and worse and worse. I have a friend that only date professional models, and he said he doesn't want to date just regular Instagram girls, because they get a bunch of input from guys, but professional models, they always compete with other models, and they always look at every square inch in their face, and they see everything, and they have all that insecurity built in, where he talks to them, they're the insecure. And he's not like a spring chicken over there, we're talking about a guy that's like, okay, but... That's even more of a problem, so why is your... I think that's the issue, so like you started by saying, oh, I have this friend, who will only date professional models, so what's his insecurity? Does he have to own... Ideally, his professional model... It's kind of like an easier prey. I mean, I didn't ask it, but I would say it's easier prey. Oh, is your prey? Yes. Okay. Also, you can already how to speak to a particular crowd. You know already the lingual... I don't think it's a possible thing. I think it's a terrible thing. It's like a really bad thing. You need an insecure person to be with you, so you can feel secure, but that's something that happens, and I don't think it's the only one. No, of course it's not the only one. That's an epidemic in itself. But what I mean is, that sentence is so disturbing. It's like, I'll only date professional models. It's because only people who are so insecure, that they have no idea who they are, what they are, that they need outside validation because of the sound of it. A guy who will only date a model, like there's no A, does that mean there's no other beautiful person or no other beautiful girl in the world besides if there are careers of models? It's almost like a little bit of narcissism in that too. Yeah, and it's also like, it's like a status symbol in some way. They were doing it for status, but even more to that, it's like such a creepy thing to be about. Who would want to date you? Who would want to date you? Like who are you? I mean, before you get mad at him, you haven't met him. He's actually not bad. But my point is, My point is not bad. No, no, no. My point behind this, my point behind this is to get the most beautiful women based on what society said. What's beautiful, I don't know, but because they're the more ones that people willing to pay for pictures. However, they're the more insecure because the entire job is about how they look like and their comparisons is kind of like more them. And everyone is looking at her. She has beautiful hair. And I don't. And also, so she would look at those little anecdotal parts, but from the side, people would say, crazy. You're gorgeous. What are you talking about? Right. Well, it's because... But that's why that society is messed up. That's my point. That's my point. It isn't... That's completely messed up. And I was going to say that now, the general public, right, with the pandemic and COVID and being stuck on zooms now, and now that's become... That's become like the norm, even after COVID has now thankfully, kind of dissipated a little bit. We're so used to looking at ourselves on even zooms, that that's also another reason why plastic surgery has gone up in this country so much, is because we're constantly staring at our imperfections, where we don't think we're pretty enough or attractive enough or whatever, that it's not just the modeling world. It's everybody. And I hate it. I think I belong in the 90s. I want to go back to... No, I hate it too. Actually, part of the reason... So candidly, part of the reason why I even started a podcast is because I hate people that bullshit online. I really don't like people bullshit online. And I found that podcasting is the only way where you can actually get to speak to somebody and actually get all the bullshit aside and they can't fake a persona for like two hours. Yeah, you can. You don't think you can fake a persona for two hours? Not the same way. I think I understand. Point is on Instagram. On Instagram, on Instagram, you cannot really see who the person is, right? Recently, they started adding reels, but it's a very short form content. But even real. It's basically a real as someone's highlights. Like, I mean, how many people are putting their shittiest moments on Instagram or social media? Almost nobody. So you're only getting everybody's highlight reel, which why all of this is based around things that are so disingenuous and not authentic, which is why I have a love-hate relationship with social media. I agree, but don't you think that at least in... Okay, you're right. Can somebody bullshit for two hours? Yes, they can. But is there a less likelihood that that person can truly bullshit for two hours? On a podcast versus... It's not even about bullshitting. Yeah. It's about the fact that when you're on IG, you don't really have to talk if you're... Right. Because I've seen this in the beauty industry. Many influences were used to classify them YouTubers and Instagrammers. The YouTubers can have Instagram, but Instagrammers don't have a YouTube. Yes. That's a different. Because on YouTube, you need to be you. Long from content, you talk about everything. You really have people that... Yes. Evangelists that love you. Okay. On Instagram, you just have people following you and looking at your stuff, but that's it. So when you post... You when you bring in a person into YouTube, you said, okay, now speak to the cameras. They're feeling secure because they're not... They're not supposed to say anything. I'm just a pretty face. And that's... That's all they're gonna... Even if they're gonna do real, usually it's gonna be transformations and stuff like that. Tic-tac is like a little dance. Nothing crazy. But when you look at longer-form content like a podcast, like talking on YouTube, you see the personality. Those are the ones that can... On skincare, you only sell it on YouTube. This is not... This is not Instagram a content type. You need to have a person that people know and trust and say, you don't know my skin routine. And I keep breaking. Finally, I found something people would actually follow through with that... That's where you get the conversion for skincare. Color cosmetics. It's for anybody. You swatch it. You can tell the... You don't need to speak about it. It's the instant results. So it's the same thing with everything else. When you go and you put a person on a podcast, now I'm asking you a question. Now I'm talking to you. Now I want to sit into like... I know. Uh-oh. Have I like sadly disappointed the both of you? You did not do so. You showed up. You showed up. Thank you. You killed her. Thank you. You're amazing. No, I'm just... I, by the way, I agree with you, Scott, to some degree, a bullshit factor. People can still be in there, I guess, in there. What do you call... Chris Rock says it perfectly. Like, they can still be their sales representative. Yeah. Two hours, right? They can still go out there and like be there, you know, their personality that they show the public. Uh, one thing that I want to just bring out that's, I think, important for the audience. You speak about habits a lot. How do you develop good habits? By doing them. They're really, you know, I think... I think we are all trying to find this... The secret way, the secret sauce of like doing what we need to do to get other... To get other things we need to do done. And at the end of the day, it all comes down to the most basic thing, which is just do it, as Nike says. The only way you develop habits is to practice and to do something over and over again. And do it over and over again, even when you don't want to do it. And do it again. And then do it again until it becomes habitual, where it becomes so second nature that you miss it, or it feels weird when you don't do it. It's as simple as that. Like, let's not overcomplicate something that doesn't need to be overcomplicated. You know, we try to figure things out that with these robust big explanations that really don't need it. And that's really what I believe. No, so I think what I'm taking from this is, like, there's going to be a point where eventually you're going to do it because you have to do it. It's going to take a minute, or maybe two. But once you keep doing it, you know it's the right thing to do. But this is going to be that little demon telling you not today, not today. But once you keep doing it for enough time, you're not going to have to convince yourself. It's practice. No, you don't have to. So like, exactly. You have to get through that comp. I mean, you know what? How to develop good habits is a skill like anything else. You do it by doing something over and over and over again. You really believe that 21 days to build it, 21 days to kill it? Like you're saying? No, I don't think so. I don't think so. I think again, there's no science formula that's going to say, maybe for you, it takes 21 days, maybe for you, it takes, it takes, you know, 77 days, right? Probably because he needs more. Right. It depends on where your baseline is, where your baseline is for sticking with something and being consistent with something, and what your discipline level is at your baseline. You can develop discipline, but what, how far you develop it, it's going to be based on where you're starting from, right? Yeah. Right? So if I'm someone who's like naturally a little bit more athletic than you are, it's going to be easier for me to learn a sport versus someone who maybe is like you, who's not very athletically inclined. Depends on where you are. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. Everybody has their point where they start, but I mean, good line. No matter what you're going to do, practice makes better and eventually, wherever you're going to be, you're going to be better than what you are. Don't worry about others. Right. Yeah. So like, again, I'm very curious. I'm at a 10 out of 10 starting out, right? You might be at a one out of 10. You may not be curious at all, but something. I'll give you one out of 10. I'm good. I'm just saying, maybe you're, maybe you're something who doesn't really give that, give a shit about other people's stories or happenstance, right? Yeah. So, number one, and I'm a 10 naturally. It's going to take you. No, I got a jump in another topic where, so how much out of, so when you opened your podcast, why opening a podcast, why starting a podcast? It takes forever to make it camp. I get that question. I want to hear it from you. Because I love, I'm, like, I just said it because I'm really curious. You're curious. You did it. I said, I did it for the fact that I'm super curious. I love to, like, go deep and figure out why people do what they do, how they do it. I've always been that way my entire life. And I like to know the intricacies. Like, I'm not so much about broad strokes. I get the broad strokes. I think that most people get the broad strokes. I want to know the, like, the minutia of everything. As soon as you came over, you were a podcaster. You started asking me questions and diving deep and deep and deep. And it was as soon as you came. So you did this because you wanted to do it for you. Yeah. Yeah. I did it for me because I did it for me and for other people who are similar to me who just really like are interested and curious in wanting to know why and how people are the way they are. I'm like, like I said, if it wasn't for all the other things, I love business. I love being an entrepreneur. But if it wasn't for that, I would have been a psychologist because I'm super fascinated with, like, the psyche and how and why people do what they do. And I'm not a good, I'm not great with small talk. I don't love talking about, like, superficial surface level stuff. Like, how was the weather? You know, what did you do this weekend? I want to know, like, I want to know, like, the real shit. And if I don't feel like you're giving me the real shit, this is in life, by the way. I'm not interested. I'm not interested in just, like, chatty. You know, you know how it used to call it used to be an entrepreneur organization called EO. And we said. So it goes. Like, why peel? Exactly. It's very similar. You have a pure of eight or so. It's six to 12. It depends how many it can be. And the idea is that you sit down with them and you need to talk about what's really important for you. And they're saying there are three times. In the forums, you mean right? In the forums, exactly. So you have five percent stuff you don't ever talk about because it's really not important. Then there is another 90 percent that you can talk about. That can be things kind of like important, but not very important or so on. Then you have the five percent that you tell nobody. Or you really, it's really important or urgent. Those are the top five percent. So when we sit down every month, that's what you need to pull out. So at first, when you don't know, you talk about, like you said, the weather, you know, in my wife and the weather. And we started arguing my care, but that's a bar conversation that you can wait until we're done with our phone. Tell me something. I really need to, if you have nothing to say in this month, don't say nothing. Because maybe one percent have that five percent. So when you sit down, when we came up with our podcast, we want to be smarter. Let's fucking do it. Let's bring smart people. So we want to come out better, smarter from that podcast, ideally. And then when people sit down and listen to us, they were like, you say, well, how often would, how much would you want to go and listen to those rich people that people say sitting down talking to each other? This is it. Those successful people. This is it, right? And then you say, this is going to be the top. This is going to be the five percent. Let's talk about what's important and the idea is to, how do you get to the five percent? And maybe you can tell me now because the idea is like, you got to peel the onion, right? But how do you get, when you sit down and you interview a person, because you're a master at this, how do you get to that five percent? How do you pull it out of people? I think it's been, I think it's been, it's been genuinely interested in somebody. I think that people have a really good instinctually. They have a really good bullshit gauge if someone's interested or not, I do. When I'm talking to someone, I can tell pretty quickly why and how, why someone's talking, like, why they're asking me why they're asking me or if they give a shit. I can feel it. You can, it's like, it's an emotion. It's like a feeling. It's like, sometimes it's just something that's unsaid. Like, I, I have, I think that my approach and how I interact with people in real life is the fact that like, I genuinely curious. I'm genuinely interested in wanting to know why you're doing, why you and how you're doing something from a place of non-judgment. I'm not asking you because I need something. I'm not asking you because I'm judging you on something. I'm just asking because I'm genuinely interested. And I think when that happens, people feel much more comfortable to share with you. You know, you asked Mark Cuban a good question. And the reason I said it's a good question is because I've never heard anyone ask him that question. And I always, I was standing out. You ask him, all right, so how many companies are you invested in? And he said, you know, between what I closed and sold and this and that, about 200. And like, how the hell are you even managing a portfolio? And he's like, yeah, I got like 12 people doing that. And that's a question I didn't have anyone. No one asked him or Kevin O'Leary or anybody else like, how many? What does it take from a, from a guy out to your size with all those shark tank and everything else? How many? So how do you come up with those questions? How is it coming to you? Is it just on the go or did you write it down before? Well, I think number one, I research everybody. I, first of all, I wouldn't back it up. I've come to a place that anybody I, that anybody who comes on my show on my podcast are people that I initially genuinely super fascinated by or interested in some capacity that I feel that they are extraordinary in some way. Because if I don't have that, that off the bat, I feel I'll come across, I will be disgenuous. I would come, I, I come across disingenuous and it happened where I brought people on where I thought other people thought they were interesting. So other than I should have them on and then right. And then like I'm not, and like the content is the content sufferers and it wanes because it's like not that interesting for me. So right, right off the jump, I think coming from a place where like I'm interested in something it creates and it creates a whole different dynamic and a whole different vibe. That's the first part. Secondly, if someone is going to give me their time, it's I respect the people enough to do my homework and do my research. I will never have someone on who's coming on to promote a book or coming on to talk about their life and then me not do any homework or any research on that. I find that to be super. How do you do? How do you do the research? How do you do the research? Do you have someone reading for you or are you doing it yourselves? Absolutely. No, not reading, not reading, searching and telling you here is some books. No, no. I mean, there's no that that to me is like inexcusable at the level I'm at anyway. You know what I mean? Like give me a break. It's not. If I'm interested in the person, it's the only should be on me to do my own research and to figure that shit out. That would be just. So you said you have a book or someone book. So if someone has a book. No, if someone has a book coming out. Okay. Like whatever book it is that send me the book. I read the book. If they don't have a book or if they don't have a book. I like Google them. I watch other interviews they've done. I watch other things that they've done. I've watched the work that they've done. I listen. I like listen to audible all the time. I listen to other podcasts that they've been on. I do all that stuff. So I'm coming into it with questions of like things that I never got answers that like I would be like hmm. Why that or like I wonder why this or. Like when you're listening to another podcast and you wish the interviewer asked that question. Exactly. Or I ask them something that I think that other people would be genuine like my listeners would be genuinely interested in knowing about right. And that's how and I think when you're in a conversation, you naturally ask different questions. And if you're only just doing back research. So I think it's important to have. You have a combination of having research so you know what you're talking about and you know what you're getting into. But then also having some form of you know spontaneity where you'll let the conversation flow. Where then if they say something, you can just you know ask something that you are genuinely curious to know about that like leads that's like that that makes sense for that conversation. Do you know does that make sense? So I think that's what it is. But I think again, that's what I was saying to you earlier. I think it's important to be curious just to have a podcast because everybody else is having a podcast to me as a stupid reason to have one. I think it's important to have a podcast because you genuinely like are interested in like talking to people. That's what makes it good podcast that makes that's what makes a difference between someone who's good at doing it and someone who's bad at doing it. If you have genuine interest in actually doing it for the right reasons. What's the part what are the top three podcasts that you listen to? You know what I love. I'll tell you my favorite podcast. But it's because of the dynamic is I love smartness with Jason Bateman and Will Arnett and. Sean, I can't remember his last name. The guy from Will and Grace. I find their dynamic together hilarious. And I think that they're great. And I think that that's my favorite one. I also like Joe Rogan because he's very conversational. And I also like how I built this. Yeah, I think it's really good. You know, Joseph was mentioning the top five percent of problems that you're trying to solve for in your life. And he was asking like how do you find those problems in your guests life and when you're interviewing them. What are the top five percent of things that you're trying to solve for in your own life? But the top five percent of the top five things. Oh, no, top five. Well, you know, like there's like the five percent of things that you don't want to talk about. So you're basically asking me what is the thought? What is the five percent of what is the stuff that you don't want to talk about? You don't want to talk about it. So you want me to overtly just tell that to you without you just getting it out of me. That's like cheating in a way, right? It is cheating. The whole the whole the whole idea of this whole thing is that you have to be a good enough interviewer and make me comfortable enough where I just tell you those things without me even knowing that I actually told you those things. Versus me just being like you being overt and being like telling me those things that you don't want to talk about. No, not necessarily things you don't want to talk about. Maybe just things that are keeping you up at night now at this stage in your career as you built out the empire of like media. You can talk about things you don't want to talk about. That's easy though. I can answer you that question being guarded and that doesn't mean anything. I think every day is a challenge, right? I think right now I have a book coming out which is super challenging in terms of the book launch itself. It's a lot of time commitment and I want to make sure that I do a good job with it. So I'm working on that. And also I think really my biggest challenge in general is just the fact that I try to be a good mom. I have two kids and I try to be a good mom. I try to be a good wife. I try to do my career and be the entrepreneur and do all the projects and work projects that really keep me. Keep me feeling that like give me the energy and the feeling of being alive. Because I genuinely like to work. I genuinely get a lot of energy from that energy. So I'm not somebody who like wants to be sitting on a beach and and getting my nails done all day. That doesn't work for me. So to be able to like do as many deals and to star as many projects on the business side as I want to do. And also be a present mom. That's a really tough thing to balance. Does it happen to you because I feel good that you're sitting with the kids. And let's just say you want to get a big person on the show or something. And then they want your attention, but you're minding somewhere else. Yeah, it happens all the time. You feel the guilt or something. I feel guilty all the time. And you know, I don't know what people say. You can do something to disconnect at that time. I try. I think it's I don't I don't believe or like I don't believe there is balance in life. I think it's a total mis like misuse of the word. And I think it's a misconception. I think that anything that you're good at requires an exorbitant amount of time. Anything that you want to be successful in requires an exorbitant amount of time that it's not flippant. So if you want to be an extraordinary parent, you got to put in an extraordinary amount of hours and time. I don't care what you say. Absolutely. If you want to be an extraordinary business owner, you got to put an extraordinary amount of hours into that business. Or else, you know what happens? It flails. And it feels someone else is going to eat your lunch. And someone else the more dedicated one is going to come and eat your lunch. 100%. I know that. I know that going in. And so I've made, I've made, I've made kind of concessions with myself that I'm willing to not be as powerful as a business person as I probably could. I'm just going to be honest, not the sound arrogant, but that I may, may be able to be because I want to be present with my kids. To me, being a good mother is more important than being a good business person. At the end of the day, I'm not going to be lying on my deathbed, being like, God, I wish I closed another deal. Never. You know, God, I wish I like had that, you know, that, that power lunch was so and so. Fuck no. I mean, I do not want someone else raising my kids. I do not want someone else. I don't want someone else or my kids feeling that they are, or they take second fiddle to some bullshit business thing. That I'm working on. But I'm not going to lie to you and say that I'm not distracted a lot and that I, my phone, that I don't look at my phone constantly. And I mean, there's been plenty of baseball games, soccer games, dancer, dance, things, gymnastic things that I'm at and I'm on my phone working. That's my happy medium. I'm not perfect. I'm not claiming to be perfect. And I feel like all I'm trying to do is do the best I can by doing both things that I really love in a good enough. Yeah. And I'm if the, if the bell, if the curve or the, or the bell curve or whatever, the pendulum swings, I rather be a better mom than a better business person. Yeah. I think that everyone feels the same. I feel like one and possible. Once you have the opportunity, you still chase it. I don't think. Right. It's just like, yeah, I want to, but I'm just, it's also, I don't know if it's just what I'm thinking because I was to say this to myself all the time because that's the right thing to say to yourself. But now you have to go and do it and then comes that mind where you say, well, I'm doing it also for the kids for the future and and all that. It's just very challenging and you feel the guilt keeps coming and chasing you. I can tell you the, the burden that is removed after you can get out of the business and you so can I can be with them. And even then it's hard to be present because you don't know how. I don't know, I don't know how I think that's a very true. And I think that's actually a very wise and perceptive thing to say because I think that is so true. Not, I don't even know how. That's actually very true. You know, you know what? You will, you will in time because I'm looking backward and I said when I pulled out, I was exactly the same today. I'm different. I'm better in my 100% know because new ideas come up and you think comes up and I'm like, again, I'm doing this to myself. I'm not the hell was. But it's not the same when you have to manage so many people and you're just your mind is busy with stress. So it takes, it takes a while to train yourself into it. Do you ever shut off? Like do you have, do you ever try and shut off? Like even like, like keeps about for like a day and shut off and like all works out. So it's like your family. It's a no. Yeah. No. I also think I have so much like like I have like answer my pants and I like my mother would say that my grandmother like always sitting. I'm sitting on spiel cuz constantly like I'm not good at just being, you know, like that's my work in life, right? Is this being okay with being okay? Of course. Super impulsive. I feel like I, yeah, I just feel like it's like an ADD thing. I'm not saying I have ADD. I say I have ADD. It's okay. That's what makes it special. I think it's overused statement. I just think I do have impulsivity. I don't like to, I don't like to sit for a long period of time. I like to be in motion. I think an object in motion stays in motion. I think that it's very hard for me to just to be. So I do find it really difficult. Being present. That's very tough. That's very, very tough. Well, Jennifer, thank you so much. It was amazing two hours. You