Leven Rambin, Actor | Terminator, Hunger Games, Grey's Anatomy & Just Getting Started

Welcome to the success story podcast, I'm your host, Scott Clary. On this podcast, I have candid interviews with execs, celebrities, politicians, and other notable figures, all who have achieved success through both wins and losses, to learn more about their life, their ideas, and their insights. I sit down with leaders and mentors and unpack their story to help pass those lessons onto others through both experiences and tactical strategy for business professionals, entrepreneurs, and everyone in between. With a further ado, another episode of the success story podcast. Alright, thanks again for joining me today. I am sitting down with Levin Ramman, who is an American actress. She is a very well-known actress, playing half-sister as William Montgomery and Ava Benton on all my children, recurring roles on Grey's Anatomy and Gone, as well as Terminator Sarah Chronicles, One Three Kill, Wizards of Where Really Place, and CSI Miami. She appeared in the sci-fi film Hunger Games as a disparate, one-tribute, and appeared as Climbers LaRue in the fantasy film Percy Jackson, Sea of Monsters. Currently, she is celebrating her latest release starring as Kara in The Big Ugly, which was just released July 24th, and is slated to appear in one of my personal favorites, The Forever Purge, which is supposed to be coming up in 2021. So, thank you. I really appreciate sitting down. I want to, I want to understand, you know, your theory. Tell me how you got into acting, tell me, you know, how you came to, to be where you are at today, which is incredibly impressive. So, thanks. Thank you. I just, when you're running, oh my gosh, they just painted this building pink in my neighborhood. It's really bizarre. Anyway, when you were running down that list, I was like, wow, all those shows are like no longer on television, but, you know, iconic at their time. And obviously, super successful smashes at their time, but it just sort of reminded me how often things change and how nothing lasts forever, basically, in this industry or anywhere in life, actually. Anyway, so, I started acting when I was 14. I sort of just always had, like, this natural innate, like, very deep curiosity about performing a guest singing and acting, and I think I wasn't as good as a singer as I, like, should have been, or I, it didn't come as naturally to me as acting, I guess. And so, honestly, it was just really a combination of my willingness to say that that's what I wanted to do, and actually believe that that was, like, a password that I could attain. And then, you know, when I made that known, like, people just came into my life that facilitated in helping me, you know, I mean, that sounds really effortless, and, honestly, it kind of was. That's my story I can't really apologize for that, but it just, I had mentors coming in my life and people that wanted to help me at that age, and they really did, and it changed my life as far as becoming a professional actor, and then kind of just kept going for 15 years. So, that's what I can say to that. I think I dug my heels in about 19 and realized, wow, this is still going. And I need to, like, elevate myself and take myself to the next level, as far as my craft and, and if I'm really doing this, how do I make myself the best, you know, and have more to offer as far as what I bring to the table of an actor. So, yeah, that's kind of how it went down, and thanks be to God, I still have that sense of, like, how can I be better, what can I do to invest in myself as a, as a commodity as an actor, and all the things that I bring to the set. I noticed something that you said, and, you know, you said, unapologetically, it wasn't as stressful as perhaps, you know, you always hear these stories of people struggling, struggling, struggling, especially when you're going to the performing arts and that, but I think you also pointed out one thing. You pointed out that you dug your heels in, you're purposefully driven, you're, like, focused, and then you align with mentors that helped you get to the next level. So, success is never accidental. Like everything you said, I think all those things that you sort of did at a very young age, people just end up not doing those till much later, they flip-flop, they maybe don't have the right help, they don't know what they don't know, they don't want to look for help outside of themselves, they think they know it all, all these things sort of inhibit a career. So, what got you to find the right people to align with, what allowed you to dig your heels in? Was it a family support system? Walk me through how you made so many good moves at a young age. Well, when you were saying that, I think another thing that came up was that, you know, I was 14, so it's like I didn't have the voices of, like, cultural conditioning telling me I couldn't do it or telling me how hard it was or how much of a struggle it was. I hadn't entered that, like, plexus of like cynicism and negativity yet. I was still, you know, watching Disney movies and thinking how I could be anything I wanted and as a child. And so I think that definitely helped me enter that world because I hadn't faced, you know, that sort of cliche turning to, you know, all the voices, all the trash that you hear as an adult, like you're supposed to believe that everything is hard. So that definitely helped me. And I wonder if I would have had the same gusto at around 20, you know, and I had experienced a little failure. I had experienced, like, a little hard break to disappointment at any point. But regardless, it did serve me at the time. So, you know, my parents were also, they never said, like, oh, you can't do it. And they were like, okay, like here's the next step you should take and you should find an acting coach and will take you after school and, you know, you'll have to work really hard because this is like expensive and this is like a commitment. And I took it seriously because also they encouraged me and they were like, you're good, you know, they instilled this confidence in me that I didn't see how I could fail at that point. I didn't even know what I was actually trying to achieve, but I just was like, this seems like a natural step in pursuing something. And, you know, I had my mom who is very, I guess, like, she's very adventurous and, like, interested in a lot of different things, like, she's not, like, she's done public speaking before for, like, charities and stuff and she had a public speaking coach because of her issues with that. You know, she's someone that is curious about a lot of different things and if her kids or she has a problem, like, she wants to find answers. So luckily, I had a resourceful, like, mom who got me with this acting coach that helped her through her public speaking stuff and this woman really believed in me and was like, right, I think you have what it takes and you have, like, a natural gift and I can help you kind of take it to the next level and I think you should pursue this, honestly. And I was like, really? Okay. And that's, this is simple as that. And it's, well, it doesn't have to be complicated. That's another, that's another really good thing that I'm, I like that you're sort of, I like the way you position that you were, you were younger and that's what really let you take those steps that a lot of people, they don't take because they're the fear of rejection, negativity, like, it's, man, like, you know, the shit that you, you put out into the world and people just, just absolutely destroy it. And it's tough. It's very tough, right, to get to that level where you have that momentum and you have that self-confidence. And I think that building that up young is, is important and that's, yeah, yeah, go ahead, sorry. I think it's like your natural inclination as a child, right? Like you have this sense of limitlessness and I can be anything and you don't care. You know, you're not care about being rejected because you have a family and you have a solid foundation and your self-worth isn't like pinned on rejection or other people's criticism of your art. I mean, you're not thinking in those terms. You're just like, this is fun. You've had this like, playful sense that if you fail to whatever, you can, you can be having asked for that the next day. You know, there's another door open and you're not pinning your whole future and self-worth on that. But I think, you know, around, you know, 17, 18, when you become an adult and enter the real world, you know, all these voices and conditioning tells you that, you know, it's too hard. This is to that. You're not just in that, you know, or whatever you're, you're inundated with. That's last for about back and last year, entire life, that bullshit, you know, but for me, I feel like I bought into that for about 10 years. And now I'm back at the place where I was when I was 14 of like, look, it's fun. I don't care. Nice. This is for me. It doesn't matter if it works out. This is like, just personal to me and this is what I want to do. I can't fail. This is fun. Like, it comes easy to me and yay. You know, I, because I bought into that crap for so long and I'm like, where did that get me? Except anxious, self-conscious, upset, you know, so I feel like you start that place. You go to that, you know, place of self-doubt and just crippling anxiety. And then you, if you're lucky, you get returned to that place of like, fuck it. Yeah. So I like that. The place of fuck it. I like that. I mean, it's really, you know, a good place to be. I feel great all the time now because, yeah, like I said, I did that thing where I doubted myself and, you know, was my own critic and it sort of just shrunk myself until like an unrecognizable version of myself and that's not what I, I'm not into it anymore. Well, no, that's, that's the thing. Like, and, you know, you mentioned like, I've read some, I've read some interviews like when, you know, I prefer these. I'm just, I'm reading some different interviews about like why you took on certain roles or why you didn't take on certain roles. And, and do you think that like your career is still like, you know, it's incredible. Like, yeah, the incredible career, but like, you still were in those moments of self-doubt. So how did you, how did you, how did you push through that and still maintain that for 10 years? You had the self-doubt. Now you're okay. Now you're good. But how did you get through that? Like, how did you keep taking on these, these, these projects, these films, these shows? Well, it was your, yeah. Honestly, I feel like, like I said, I, I dug my heels in and I was like, how, you know, because I did have that crippling doubt. And I was like, okay, I have to fix this. Like, I have to work harder. I have to go to school. I have to learn this. I have to be more like her. I have to lose weight. I have to clear my skin. I have to stop hurting. I have to stay home every night. I mean, I, I went into like, fix it mode of like, how can I get this, you know, take control, basically, back. And I think that there is something legitimate for that and obviously the only thing you can control is yourself. So I, I buckled down like that, but I think I almost went like too far in that direction sometimes where I was like, I can't, I, I don't do everything right. Like, nothing's going to work out and I have to stay home and I have to be super disciplined and then like, you know, there, that can be extreme also. So because at the end of the day, there was nothing wrong with me. There, I didn't need, I mean, yes, you can advance and you can educate and you're always growing and always evolving. But I felt like there was fundamentally something wrong with me as I was. So I kept, I kept trying all of these things to, um, to, um, fix my soul for, there was nothing, there was nothing really to fix. That's, no, no, there was nothing to fix. I was enough as I was and I was, I was, you know, growing and evolving. Everything I did got me to the next level, but I just felt, it got to the point where it was never enough. Like it was never enough, um, rehearsing or practicing or reading or school. I still didn't feel enough because even though I was doing all these things, and then I just sort of realized, okay, there's nothing wrong with me. I don't need to, it's already there. And so all this external things is, you know, it's just, um, I don't need to scramble. Yeah, like this. I just, just settle into like that. I am enough. And I know what I'm doing. And this is like a class of class and like, in like positive mental thinking attitude, like all these things that a lot of people struggle with. And I don't know. Maybe it's, I, listen, I've never been in, I've never been in Hollywood. I don't know. I'm sure that this role in particular when you're on screen from a young age, judge in front of, you know, millions of people watching your stuff that really hits you. Your psyche, your mentality, like your mental health, it probably takes a beating. Um, yeah, how did you, how did you get out of that? How did you get out of that? You dug your heels in, you know, you're, you're doing all these things to self-improve. What brought you to the point where you realize, like, yes, you are enough. You're good. You're, you're doing amazing things. You don't have to fix everything that doesn't even be fixing. Um, honestly, I'd say it was like in the last year, two years. I just sort of, I was doing, I got to this place where I was, like I said, like, so I wanted, I wanted, I wanted to direct and write. That was, that was what my heart was like telling me to do. But I felt like I couldn't, because I didn't have a school. I didn't have this. And I didn't, you know, again, back back to the shit of, like, it's too hard. It's really, you know, you know, she's better than me. He's better than me. They know what they're doing and I don't. Um, and so I was just sort of, like, paralyzed. And I was like, well, I gotta do something. So I went to school went to UCLA. And that was great. And I love, you know, just that decision alone, like, sort of got, like you said, like the momentum started with that. And when you make these little decisions for yourself, you build trust and confidence in yourself again, because you're like, oh, look at me. I'm willing to invest in my dream. And I'm not just going to sit here and talk about it or complain that it's too hard. Um, so I'm going to take one little step in the direction. And then the next thing you know, one step leads to another step. And it's momentum, um, so I guess it was, you know, when I felt like I was, you know, I just crossroads again. I was like, um, you know, 15 years later, where I was like, I'm, now I want to do something. No, like I want to do this new thing. And you know what? I'm not with acting. I, you know, I'm so successful like that I know that I can do it. And, you know, but this I might face failure. I may feel pretty criticism this. I'm not an expert at this yet, you know, I'm not a master by any means. I don't have a experience. So I had to like challenge my own ego to in order to step into something as a beginner at this point in my life and my career. And just sort of accept that, you know, I'm going to have to fail. I'm going to have to make mistakes and, you know, because I don't feel that in acting sort of, I feel like I'm on this train and it's going. But with writing and directing, I was like, oh, damn, I'm starting something as a beginner here, you know, after all of the success and stuff. So it, I had to just swallow that pill and put my ego down and my need for, need for success or validation and just be like, this is a, this is the beginning steps. And while I feel like a veteran over here, I'm a big beginner over here. But I do know a lot more than I think I do. And that has served me. So I appreciate that too that when you jump into a new field, it's everything you're saying is so on point and these are all these, these are all lessons that agnostic of your specific circumstance, people can take in and hopefully learn from. When you, when you started writing, directing, first of all, I'm curious, where are you at with that right now? And how did you, what were the first steps you took as, was it UCLA that helped you start to learn about this different craft that you weren't comfortable with? Well, I tried it. I wrote a series last, there are two years ago with my friend Amber Childers and, you know, he sort of had this like, you know, that thing of like, we can do this. Why not? Easy. You know, we know what we're doing. And, you know, we did do a degree, but there was, you know, some, some structural, you know, foundation elements that would have benefited us as far as saving time. Like, we didn't, you don't, that's the thing about starting something new or, you don't need to make a million mistakes because someone's already gone before you and done it. Hey, it's Scott here. I'm going to take a second to thank the sponsor of our show Teachable. What is Teachable? Well, let me start with this. If 2020 has taught us anything, it's that nothing is for sure. Nothing is a guarantee. Everything was flipped on its head, including our job security. A lot of people realize that brick and mortar had to move online, had to move digital. And those jobs we've had for 20 plus years weren't so secure. So what do we do? How do you future proof? You start your own thing. You build your own business. It doesn't have to be completely replacing your nine to five. 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Visit Teachable.com backslash success and enter your email for a free seven-step guide walking you through the exact steps you can take to create your own online school and start making money based on what you already know that's Teachable.com backslash success. Enter your email for a free checklist to help get your online school started. And so we kind of learned the hard way on certain things, which is fine. And then at a certain point, I was like, okay, I want to, this is now becoming more serious of an endeavor. We had a series set up at Starves and Network and I was like, I want to go to UCLA for directing so I can direct the show. And so I did that for about a year and a half. And that propelled me into all other areas, but you know, I think, I don't, so that shows like not really going anymore and I don't see it as like a failure because it got me to, I learned so much, you know, and I learned the hard way on a lot of things like on this next show that I've written, I'm like, I know what to do. I'm not going to do this. I'm going to save myself a bunch of time and money by not doing that. Like I put myself through the hard knocks on that. So, you know, but now I feel so confident, so equipped, so capable because I've already gone through that. And I don't see it as a failure. Like I said, I mean, it is what it is. So, and I, you know, I do watch a lot of like business, you know, Tony Robbins and like Mark Cuban as my idol. And you know, I do relate my mentality to like a business or athlete mentality where it's like you fall down and you get back up and makes you stronger. You know, I don't take it as like personally like that I'm not good. I just, I understand, I accept that that's part of the process. Yeah. I'm not like going to fight it or give up because I couldn't, the first one didn't work out. Keep going. That's where I'm at with that. And I'm on fire about it, I'm so excited. And I know it's like, I know, now I know what to do. And it feels good to, you know, am I still scared to put it out there? And do I still have moments of hesitation and doubt and thoughts of, I can't do it? Of course. But I have proven to myself now that if I just get there, if I get in my car and just go and I prepare to whatever degree I need to, like, I can do it. Am I going to feel like my fucking, you know, bodies on fire, maybe, you know, with anxiety and like worst case scenarios, like frambling through my mind, yes, but I know I trust myself that like once I'm there, I can do it. And I might, I might have to take a Xanax on the way there, because you know what I mean. But I feel the passion. I feel the passion. This is something like, you know, you can tell. Someone's passionate about something. You can totally tell when someone's passionate and even the fact that like, you know, you're cool with just that you're cool with the stress, you're cool with the anxiety. But like you feel that you feel like those, those micro wins, like those baby steps towards that next thing in your career that's going to be, you know, you're going to be super, you're going to be super proud of that. That's that's something you took on. This is not, this is, this is at the point now you're, now you're older, you're no longer 14, right? Everything you're taking on, everybody's looking at you. And that's a hell of a lot of stress, too. That's a lot of stress. How, um, that's impressive, very impressive. Is that where you want to, like, where do you want to take, are you even sure where you want to take your career? Or is this just something that you want to do for you? No, I, I think I've, you know, come to the point where, you know, I want, I feel and I know that I have a valuable voice aside from my work as an actor, you know, where, and I have been in so many people's creative visions as an actor where, you know, you step onto the set and everything from the colors to the design, to the costumes, to the furniture, to the camera placement, it's all the mind of the director and I have that mind. Like, I can create, I want to create worlds. I have a very unique, like, vision and, and point of view. And so, and instead of just, like, sitting on the set being like, oh, I wish I was doing this, or, while, you know, this should be that way or whatever, I'm like, oh, I should you do it myself. Yeah. Okay. So, um, I, I feel like I want to have, like, a recent, I have, I just started a production company and I just, um, I, I feel that I have a relatable, you know, millennial female, like, voice and I, I just want it to be out there and, you know, share, like, women's stories of things like this, you know, like, everything I'm talking about, like, sort of how to overcome your own, like, limiting, like, self-talk and belief to, to do what it is, whatever it is that you want to do. And I think all my stories kind of, that I've written and, I'm directing, like, reflect the things that are important to me and that I feel is my purpose to share, you know. And as an actor, you know, you're not as in control of the message that's being relayed through the film. That's admirable. Um, I, I was, I was reading an interview you did with, uh, I think brieftake.com. It was about you attending a woman of film event. And I'm curious about your, your, uh, you know, insights on why perhaps women are not at the same level as, as men in film, like, they're not holding all those, uh, senior roles and positions. What's, like, getting in the way of them having more of, uh, of a foothold in Hollywood and film and television and the arts, um, is that accurate to say or is that inaccurate? I'm, I'm just curious because you're in this world right now. Yeah. I mean, if you look at the data, it's, it is accurate, you know, um, but I think that, you know, there's something about that story and that belief that is continuing to make it so. And because it's just this thing that hasn't been challenged, I mean, yes, the data says that, but, you know, I also know men that are trying to do exactly what I'm doing and are not, not going well. So I think, you know, for me, I sort of got to this point where I'm like, I look at the great men or women filmmakers of what they've done. And they like got their friends together and, and, and made a movie, you know, and you don't need anyone to tell you you can or can't do it or this is bad or this is good. You know, and I, and I subscribe, I subscribe a subscribe to that before with my other show where I was like, this person was telling me no, and this person was telling me no, and this person was giving me notes and this person, you know, so they were going to help and didn't this network so they were going to, you know, and, and then I was like, wait, why am I getting my power to so many people? Why am I getting my passions to so many people? Like, why don't I just do it myself? Like, you know, and, and then I have to trust that, you know, things will align to have it seen. Maybe that's naive. I don't know, but it's what's not working is this knocking on doors a million times and like, you know, believe, you know, having that, getting permission from someone else to do it. My production company is called Permission Productions, and we get it to ourselves now just making stuff and it's on an iPhone or it's, but it's us and it's true to us and it's like the right one are going to see it at the right time and that I just, so, you know, I think that there's creative ways that like women or people or young people or old people who ever can make their stuff, you know, without getting it made. Like you have to do it yourself at this point and luckily for us, like, you know, there's so many resources that we have at Artisposal, I mean, I look at John Casavetes and he started with a video camera and his friends in a house and he became one of the most prolific filmmakers all time, but he didn't sit there with his idea and say, if only HBO would make this. No, he just made it. And then eventually HBO wanted everything he did. I appreciate that and I feel that this, the fact that you're championing this and you are, you are empowering through the things that you do. So by, by being a writer, by directing, by producing, whatever you want to end up doing, by being that role model, you are, you are empowering. And I think that he mentioned a few things like why, you know, why are people not just doing? Well, I think it's that apprehension, right? It's that it's that imposter syndrome, it's that I'm hoping that people can't, that can't do it. And, and you need more people like yourself that just do it because they know they can because they've achieved some level of success, maybe it's given confidence, whatever it may be that allows them to do it, that I think will help, will help sort of pave the way for others. Well, that's nice. I, you know, I, I appreciate that and, you know, I see guy look at myself and I'm like, okay, I've had a certain level of success, but you don't even need that. You don't even need that like to, in order to get started, like, that's what most people wait for is like, well, one time successful here, then I can actually do, or once I, you know, do, you know, but you, like, my, my friend that I'm writing with, like, who wrote an incredible script, I mean, with me, um, I had to kick her ass, like, men, men, men, mentally, like, the entire way because she couldn't do it, she was too tired, it was too emotional, you know, she didn't know what she was doing. She was terrible, she, you know, doubted herself every fucking step of the way. And I had to literally be like, I am not going to call you, I, I believe in you and I would not be here wasting my time and investing my time in this with, and so get it together because I am not, and we, she wrote an amazing thing. And now she feels like unlimited. And she's like, oh my god, if I could do that, I didn't think I could. And I'm like, this was a masterclass in, like, watching her go from the, the K hole that she was in about herself to literally, like, well, oh my god, if I could do this, then, then, and then I could do that and making like huge decisions in other areas of her life, which it wasn't based on the success that she's already had, she, she, she's just got out of school. Like, she's had no success, she has like $15 in her life, you know, and, but like, you know, all she needed was that like mindset change and someone to believe in her. And, you know, that happened to be me. And so I would not like let her give up on herself because of her own stuff. Like, I, and, and it was like watching that transformation of within a month's time, like, it was incredible. So now I'm like, wow, you really don't need that success first. You just need either someone or yourself to believe in you like that. And not to let you, yeah. No, I was going to say, you know, you have to do, um, you see this a lot in, in San Francisco and start a plan, settle on value, have these incubators that, that give those people that access, right? You need to do, you need to do something like that for women and film. I would love to. Yeah, that would be amazing because again, you don't need success, you don't need money, you don't need any of the things that people tell you that you need. And, uh, it's literally just, yeah, like, I would love to do that. That's a really good idea. Like, people have been like, well, I do a podcast and I'm like, I don't feel like I, but then, you know, I'm like, I know what my passion is and I know what my, um, area of interest is. And for me, it's not podcasts. So maybe it would be something that's like, you know, hands on with people. I think, I think, you know, just, just take what you did there, take that, take that woman that you helped out and then get that, get, then you get her to help someone else out. And that's how an incubator started. It doesn't have to be so formal, like, you know, maybe it gets big enough, it does get formalized. But I had to start, like, if you have the time, it's it all the time, right? But if you have the time, I think that would be a really, really cool initiative to take on because you start a podcast, right? You do whatever you want. I like doing podcasts. I like interviewing people, but, uh, you know, I don't, uh, I, I, I do my own thing for businesses. I helped them out. I've worked with entrepreneurs before, but you got to do this for, you got to do this for film. And you do this type of, of incubator lab startup group, whatever you want to call it, for film. And you just, and then you have that, like, uh, life life, and it's just me saying, yes, you can. Well, you know what? You know what? I'm calling me like, hey, I'm like, do it. I don't care. I don't care. You know, those accountability people, and people that are like trying to lose weight or whatnot, their personal trainers, they call them, they tell them what they ate. That's it. It's the same thing. It's, it's just me telling you, yes, you're right. And I'm not taking your excuses at home. I don't care. But, you know, you'd be surprised how hopeful that is, and like, I, you know, so yeah, we'll, we'll see. Maybe next time next year. That's the next one. That's the next one we're doing. All right. Um, it was really good. No, I, I appreciate that. I, uh, when, when I first started, you know, when I, when I wanted to do this podcast, I wasn't sure where, which direction of a go in, um, what you wanted to speak about, but I, I really appreciate this. This is really, really good. I'm really happy with this one. I'm really, really happy with it. Awesome. Um, I wanted to ask, uh, like some life insight questions that I like to ask at, uh, you know, sort of the close it off, but before, was there anything that you wanted to speak about that you're working on now that you're passionate about now that we get in what we're going to? Um, you know, I guess my, just my writing and directing, like I, you know, I, I love my acting and I, I have, you know, worked with incredible, like I worked with David Fincher this year, and that was a dream of mine always. And I, and I would love to work with him again. And, um, I think, I don't know, you just have to wait and see. I have a lot of stuff coming, coming out and up and, uh, experimenting with, you know, all kinds of stuff. So you'll see. All right. Well, you know what? That means you have to do another one in a year from now when you have the, the, the woman in film, empowerment incubator set up. Yeah. Yeah. And all the writing, the directing, all that stuff. All right. That's cool. I appreciate that. Um, all right. Let's go through some of these. You do more, more or less like rapid fire, however you want to answer them. Um, what is one of the biggest, uh, one of the biggest challenges that you've had in your career and, and how did you learn from it? Um, I mean, I think like twofold, this is like, uh, the biggest challenge I had was, how do I, I, I would look at, you know, an actor, like a Natalie Portman or Jessica Chastain and be like, okay, how do they do that? Like, what, what, how? And I didn't know, you know, I knew what I knew, but I didn't know what I didn't know. And I wanted to know. And I think, um, I went just, I went to acting school, you know, and, and even if I don't use any of that stuff today, which I do, but just, just, you know, taking that step. Like I said, to learn that and expand myself and challenge myself and always be challenging myself, um, gave me, you know, invaluable education, but also a sense that I can, I can get better and I, and there is more to be done and I, and I, wanted to stretch past my own comfort zone and my own acting, I guess is what I could say. Um, and, and I think the biggest challenge I've had is just my own holding myself back or comparing, you know, myself to people and that's a daily struggle still and of like, oh, how would she do it or what is she doing or what, you know, and I have to constantly remind myself like, I don't want to be her, I want to be me. And who I am is not, you know, who they are. And I'm, you know, weird and quirky and talk like a sailor and have a sense of humor and don't really give a shit and that's, that's who I am. I'm not, I can't be Grace Kelly, look, that's not who I am. But that's taking me a long time to come home to also. So, and, you know, staying in my lane and, and not the comparing and the feeling less than, and that has been the biggest challenge for me, which I know every one faces, which breaks my heart. But every time I have that impulse, I remind myself to just lean into who I am even more. Because I look the people that I do admire are so unique and original and unapologetically themselves. And me trying to be like them is not serving me. So I, and it's a practice to be like, whenever I have that impulse to compare or, or, or, you know, my mind spins about how someone else would do something, I just go, no, like, how, how do I do it? And what do I, like, and I have to practice it all the time. And it is getting easier. Very good. Yeah. Very good. Where do you go to, to learn and to stay on top of what you want to take on? You know, I went to UCLA directing program, which was incredible. I always want to be in a classroom, actually. I just always do. And I always know. But I, there's a class in a book and a community for everything that you want to learn. And, you know, I don't think it's like, sometimes it's not like sitting at home and watching a master class. Sometimes it's like getting in a thing that's uncomfortable for you. You know, a group of people, a new skill that you know you're going to fail at. I'm always seeking those kinds of things out. Even if I don't pursue it or do it, I learn something. And I starch my comfort zone. So I think I'm going to do a comedy class this month, because I've always been told I can't do comedy. And then I believe that. So I didn't. But now I'm like, wait, I want to. And I think I'm funny. And that would be fun for me. Who cares? So I'm going to be in a comedy class of Zoom people. And we'll see how that goes. Good for you. That's good. That's good. And you know what? That's another. Just like if somebody says you can't do it, just prove them wrong. And it doesn't matter if you don't want to do it long term, just prove them wrong. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And if it turns out not to be my strength or my, who cares? At least I like, I'll get something from it. Yeah. You'll know. And it won't be someone else like imposing that. Yeah, something that I bought that they said. Yeah. Yeah. Challenging ads. Yeah. What advice would you give someone who wants to go into acting? Oh, man. Yeah. Oh, my brain goes to don't, but that's not true. No, that's not true. I guess, you know, it's such a cliche, like, being of like, just work hard and don't give up. It's like, yeah, but like make sure you're always taking care of yourself, you know, and that yourself worth and is not dependent upon, you know, making it as an actor, always have money, always have, you know, another job or something that, you know, facilitates that. And, and, and yeah, just just always be, just making stuff again, like, you don't have to be hired by, by someone to make something. You don't have to wait until you have an agent and the whole regular role, you know, find opportunities to to act because of the momentum, you know, the momentum that you're like, oh, I'm acting in, if I hear one more person, like, it's not a big, it's nothing really. It's not a big deal. Shut up. You know, it is a big deal. Like, you're acting in a student film where you wrote something and you're filming it and oh, yeah, well, it's not good. Like, stop talking down about yourself and about every, every opportunity that you get that's not a Marvel movie. Like, you, you have to believe in those little steps and be super excited about those because, you know, that's the momentum that's going to get you wherever one day. So, you know, to take these little steps and see all of your wins and to be brave enough to like, even if you feel overweight or you feel like you're not pretty enough or you, I mean, it doesn't matter anymore. That's what's beautiful about this industry right now and the world and media is that like, nobody wants to look the same anymore. It's not cool to try to be like skinny and perfect and it's just not. People want real and so, anyone can be a star, anyone and everyone has the same, you know, like, look at, you know, the girls on Broad City or they're not, like, fitting into this cookie cutter bullshit and so, you don't have to be that and it's not the image that you have that you need to be in order to act like you're shooting yourself in the foot. So, that would be, it's just like, start acting and have a vision of where you want to go but still don't, you know, beat yourself up for every little thing that you get that's not that. Like, you see that as the path to get there and yeah, stay, stay humble in learning and growing. What would be a lesson that you would tell your younger self? Oh, name it girl. A lesson. You don't need everyone to like you at all. Like, stop wasting so much energy, mental, physical, emotional energy and trying to have everyone like you because you lose yourself when you do that and I think I was on a lot of sets and a lot of meetings and a lot of trying to be someone I wasn't for the imaginary version of myself I thought that they wanted. And I think I, you know, my confidence suffered because I was trying to be, you know, something besides me because I thought I needed everyone to like me. Um, what you don't, as long as you like you and you know that at the end of the day. So that's one. There's, that's a good lesson. You can keep, you can keep going if you want but that was a good one. You don't have to have more than that at the tough one sometimes but yeah, yeah. And this is the, this is the last one before I just get all your socials which I could probably just pull up on my, on my computer right now but what does success mean to you? That's a big one. I mean, it's meant a lot of different things to me over the years. It's meant money, it's meant, um, you know, achieving certain goals. But once you achieve those goals and you have that money, you know, you sort of wonder what now. And so I think success for me is like facing my fears and, um, you know, facing my, um, yeah, my fears of failing and doing it anyway and the fulfillment and pride that I feel in myself after I, after I do that. Um, yeah, that, that's all you can hope for, I think. And the success, the money, the, all of that comes after you face those fears because you, you're doing it at that point. So I feel successful because I am super happy and proud of the work I'm doing and do. And, you know, if I held what I'm doing now up to the lens of success that I had five years ago, I would be failing. So it's, you know, I think also to be happy with just like so little, just minimalism in life, I think that's success because then you can't, you can't lose. Like I'm super, I, you know, I live in a really cute apartment. Like I just love the things that I have and don't have more than I want or need and that to me is success because I have overcome that, that belief that I need a bunch of stuff in order to be successful. Um, and so now I just feel free, more free. And, um, my mind is more free and my physical space is more free and I don't need anything in order to feel, um, happy. So freedom is success to me. Very good answer. Very good answer. All right. That's all I got. Um, yeah. So on social, you're, you're, you're easy. You're, you're loving random then at everywhere. So Twitter, Instagram. Um, I don't know if you have a Facebook page. I'm probably okay. Good, good. It's also loving random. Believe it or not. All right. So easy there. Um, and where do people go to find a new set that you're working on? Is there another site or is that it? I, my Instagram, I keep it pretty up to date. Um, the big ugly is now available on iTunes and Amazon. Um, yeah. That's where you can find the update. That's all for today. Thanks again for joining me on another episode of the Success Story podcast. You can download or stream this podcast wherever podcasts are available, including iTunes, Spotify, Google, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, and many others. You can also watch this podcast on YouTube. If you haven't already, please subscribe and share this podcast with your friends, family, co-workers, and peers. Please leave us a rating on iTunes. It takes about 30 seconds as it allows other people to find our podcast and let's our amazing guests reach even more people with their message. And remember, any rating is fine as long as it contains five stars. I'm Scott Clary from the Success Story podcast, signing off.