Lessons - Navigating Pregnancy and Work | Stephanie Kramer - Chief Human Resources Officer at L'Oréal

In this lessons episode, discover the hidden pressures many face in the workplace, while navigating deeply personal challenges like pregnancy, loss, and family planning. Learn how secrecy, perception, and societal norms shape these experiences, explore surprising data on career impacts, and uncover strategies to foster confidence and support in professional environments. So two things that I want to go into, I want to talk about some of those other stats and facts that you've uncovered, being the researcher that you are, which is probably the best possible person to write a book about a topic like this because you dive into the details and data. But not a more interesting thing that you just mentioned is the psychology of this whole experience. You said, you know, you mentioned one word, you mentioned the word secret, and I think that's very interesting because if you have worked, and I'm pretty sure most people that do this podcast work a significant amount of hours in a week, you spend more time with the people at work than sometimes you even do with your own family. You know, it's not great, but it's a reality for a lot of people. And when you have something so personal that is a secret, I can only imagine how much that weighs on you. So let's actually unpack, why do we have to keep these things a secret from our peers at work? Why is this something that we feel uncomfortable speaking about before a certain point? Well, you know, it's, it's one of these things that's, there's so many things that people feel that are hidden. They're invisible weights, you know, that you're carrying on your shoulders every day when you show up at work. The interesting thing about pregnancy is that this is something physical pregnancy, and there's so many ways that people become parents, but physical pregnancy, there is a, there is a, a literal point where if, and I will talk a little bit about the impact on the pandemic, but where it's kind of revealed for you. So, you know, that's one is that you feel kind of a pressure that at some point, whether you want to or not, it's going to be revealed. And actually, that was one of my own personal experiences. I remember, because after suffering loss, I was so afraid to share for two reasons. One, I had my own fear of getting my hopes up, you know, and I think like the idea of, of sharing this good news and then having to backtrack. And the second part, which is very rational is also the fear of perception. No, what will change? How will people view me? And by the way, whether or not it actually does happen, and I will call you, certainly both extremes still happen today in the workplace, I think that there's still this feeling of both the forcing function of physical pregnancy, but also the combination of what you tell yourself and how you feel comfortable, and then also the other side of perception. And, you know, one thing we were talking about earlier, but is the conversations that you may want to have, they don't have to be the same. And I think the hard thing is, and the great thing is actually that so many people now are more willing to share these stories. And personally, I mean, I mean, I needed to be 10 years in order to be comfortable to be sharing this with you right now. And some women, they may become pregnant in the next day they're ready to share. So one of the reasons why I also wrote the book by delineating the phases is because for some people, the third phase, which is called the hush, which is the secret time, it might be a day, you know, you might be at a place of work where you're super comfortable. And in fact, that might be how you are as well, where you're just more open to sharing. And you'd rather have if something, you know, doesn't happen well, that you'd rather have people around you. And other people might not feel comfortable that way. So instead, I try in the book to give some framework that, you know, if it's you, and that's what you want to say, and you know, who you need to tell exactly what you're going to say in others that maybe use language more like, I'm going through something personal, I'll let you know if I need anything from you versus I'm going through, you know, fertility treatments. And I'm going to have these appointments in which they do XYZ. And you need to, you know, both can have the same end goal of making you confident and feel supported and establish what you may need in that moment from whomever that is, is it HR, is it your boss, is it a peer, is it an ally at the workplace? And they can be done in different ways. So let's dive into some of the data that you discovered while prepping for writing this book. So what are what are some of the data points to you uncovered? What are some of the the common misconceptions that people still believe all of that? I think that data data is very powerful. And I'm sure there's some positive that comes from data. I'm sure there's a lot of negative and unfortunate realities that are still present in the in the workforce in 2023 that also came from understanding data. Yeah. So it was important for me to have the data to kind of validate some of the hypotheses. And just to give some moments where you could be surprised, but I also was very thoughtful in the book to make sure that it didn't feel like even if numbers show that, then you might, it might not be you. So, so, you know, as I talked about the hush, that's the middle kind of phase. So within the first phase, I call it BTTC. So pre pregnancy, I did these studies with college age men and women and non gender conforming. And 92% of college age women said that motherhood will have an impact on their career. And it's funny because some people I say that to jump to that it's negative. And it's just an acknowledgement. And in fact, for most of us, it probably should be somewhere in your 100% because regardless if you decide to become a parent, you know, you're making that decision. So there's some level of that, but that's a really high number. And that's me asking college age women today. And the study is in 2021. So this is not all data. And the second question that I asked that was really powerful in in that particular phase is one out of two. So they chose their major because of it. And in fact, men were almost as high. So again, not necessarily negative, not necessarily positive, but they were thinking about it. And the funny thing is afterwards I did some subsequent focus groups with college age women around the country because I was like, tell me more about this because I thought it was a pretty big number. I expected there to be some significance to it, but I didn't expect it to be so high. And they said, just no one ever asked me. And so actually this week, I had an event where I was speaking to college age women. And it was so cool to hear, you know, and primarily Gen Z be so open and excited to talk about something so personal, including even the word pregnancy. They were like, we're so much more likely to talk about an HPV vaccine than we are talk about someday becoming apparent. And I was like, well, that's really powerful. And another example, I was talking to them and they were like, well, yeah, and I'm trying, I'm about to intern at a company. And I was so impressed that they said they offer egg freezing. And I was like, oh, okay, well, tell me more about that. And they were like, listen, I know based off of the type of relationship I want to have that I'm going to need egg freezing someday to start my family. And I thought, oh, my gosh, not only did we jump, I think some of the other women in a group too, that that would be to crawl on your fertility. This was making her feel safe and included to go to a company that she could then have a benefit that would allow her regardless of the way that her path to pregnancy would happen would be possible. And I was like, okay, that's pretty cool. So that's not the pre pre conception phase. Then I mentioned in the trying to conceive. So the TTC, so trying to conceive the one out of two saying that that had impact on work. And I think this one is super, super important because, you know, there's some stories in the book and some women that I've talked to you could be pregnant at work for five years and not have a baby. And that is that secrecy. That's the reality of all the things that you're navigating, the emotions, the intensity, and also the amount of drive and conviction that needs to happen concurrent to while you're working that maybe no one knows about. So I found that incredibly important time period to be aware of. Then you move into the hush, so the secret phase. And I hear, again, it was really a focus on those conversations that need to happen. And often the concern about what you think you may be judged. So a lot of that language versus in the push, I actually saw that women had an increasing confidence. So, you know, depending on and I broke it down by subsets on on age, etc. But in general, they're actually a boost. So there's also something that's like, you know, you were just asking about the things that hold us back. It's almost once it's out there too. And you're also through kind of the health concerns or you may have new health concerns. But it's interesting because there was also these women that also filled this boost that had a positive impact on their career. And in fact, for those who felt more confident, they also increased their effort. So, and this is self-reflective information. But that's pretty interesting too. And then the last part, I call it anticipating the great return or not because both are valid. And it was interesting. The point about an asset in the workplace that, you know, the the men with children were more likely to stay at than women without children. So I think it's important that we have the conversation where we include everyone and talk about this very normal thing that's that's likely to happen to 85% of women. You know, it's a it's a big one. So I think those those data points for me are linch pens in allowing these stories to kind of form around them for the unique experiences that everyone has. Thanks for tuning in. If you found this valuable, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. And if you want to dive deeper into this conversation, check out the links in the description to watch the full episode. See you in the next one.