Lan Belinky, Co-Founder at Boscia | Leading a Global Skincare Brand

Welcome to the Success Story Podcast. I'm your host, Scott Clary. On this podcast, I have candid interviews with execs, celebrities, politicians, and other notable figures, all who have achieved success through both wins and losses, to learn more about their life, their ideas, and their insights. I sit down with leaders and mentors and unpack their story to help pass those lessons onto others through both experiences and tactical strategy for business professionals, entrepreneurs, and everyone in between. With a further ado, another episode of the Success Story Podcast. All right. Thanks again for joining us. Today, I am sitting down with Lan Blinky, who is the co-creator and general manager of Bocha. Now, Lan was born and raised in her young young kids in Japan, which is the infamous center of skin care innovation. Lan was fascinated by the beauty trends and tactics she was continuously exposed to, mesmerized, and reminiscent of her grandmother's six-step beauty ritual and her aunts unique product application practices. The allure of the beauty world naturally beckoned. In spring of 96, Lan moved to the US with her father and Bocha founder, Jen Inomata, so he could realize his dream of bringing Japanese influence skin care to the state. So let's fast forward a few years. So his dream was realized Bocha was born, a land-attended university graduated the degree in business marketing. Basically, while going to school, spending as much time as possible helping grow the business, grow the brand, it has done exceedingly well since its inception. Obviously, when I first was excited about doing this interview, I was speaking to my spouse and she said, yes, you got to get her on. I use Bocha all the time. I obviously, I didn't know the brand as well, but after doing a little bit of research, what I like to do is to frame it up for people that are listening who are not so tuned in like myself. I looked at all the accolades and I wanted to name a couple accolades, but I went through the website and there was woman's health, Cosmo, CNN, Yahoo, Vogue, pop sugar, Harper's, L, Instile, people, and that was like the first 10 in 2019 of a list of about 100 and that list went on to 2002 or back all the way to 2002. So like this is just a little bit of a precursor for how successful they've been. So, Lan, I really appreciate you joining. I really, really am excited to discover your story, how you've built this company over the years and I guess just to learn a little bit more about what's driven you to be the Bocha that we all use today. So thank you. Of course. Well, thank you so much Scott, for having me on this podcast. Definitely during these difficult times, it has really given me something to look forward to, get dressed, put on a nice shirt. So something I was absolutely looking forward to and got to listen to some of your podcast and must say I've actually learned. So just a little bit about myself. We've done a great introduction, but yes, I was born and raised in Japan. My parents met in the U.S. My mother is American and they got married, they moved to Japan. So I was born and raised there and absolutely that's really where my passion for skincare started. So my grandmother and my aunt, every time I would go over, we lived very close to them. I would just watch them take such meticulous care of their skin. It was never about makeup. It was always skincare, but you know, being a girl, a young child, I think you always look up to other female older figures in your life. So I wanted to copy what they were doing. I wanted to play with the products and there were so kinds of course in kind of taught me what everything was and not that I really understood the meaning behind it. It was just so much fun playing with it. And then of course, as I got older, you know, it was like, oh, this prevents wrinkles from happening. Yes, this is great. I really want to do that. So really, that's where my fascination started. And then of course, like you mentioned, it really is Tokyo such a great place to be in if you are in love with skin care, because we do see a lot of those innovations come from, you know, not only Japan, but from Asia. And then fast forward a couple of years as I began to go into my teen years for really personal reasons. My parents decided that they did want to move back to the US. My mom, she did learn Japanese. It's so amazing to see old videos in her speaking Japanese, because she moved there when she was, I don't know, 20 something, but I saw it through here. But I think it was a point in time where she wanted to be able to communicate to her children in English. So that really prompt our trip because growing up in Japan, I didn't speak any English. So then we moved to the US. And that's when my father really started, you know, 20, the idea of bringing skin care. And at that time, there was no clean beauty. I think even skincare on its own was such a foreign concept almost. It wasn't a typical routine or no one had a routine. It was a very makeup driven world. So, you know, when you ask someone, what do you use to wash your face? It was like, oh, I use the bar. So, you know, I use a shampoo and that was really where skincare was at the time. And so I think there was this light bulb moment where, hey, maybe there is an opportunity to really market these amazing skincare products without the use of harsh ingredients. And that's what Bocha is all about and where we were born. And so originally, when Bocha started back in 1999, 1998, it started out in our house. So one of the extra room was reserved as the Bocha office. And I say this a lot, but my sisters and I used to fight because, you know, I wanted my own room, but I couldn't because that was always the designated office. Our garage was essentially where all the products were stored. So that's where our warehouse was. I would fold pamphlets, folders, samples. You name it anything that I could get my hands on. I definitely wanted to help out. And then as I entered in high school, this was a time where, you know, after school or on the weekends, definitely summer breaks, I would help my father out, going to local festivals, really doing whatever I could. And that's when I think I had another moment where I just became so passionate about Bocha. So of course, I always loved skincare, but that was the moment where I realized, hey, I really want to get involved in this and make it official. So being in high school, I knew in order to really contribute to the company, I do have to get formal education. So I went, I went away to school. I came back. And then 2008, I officially joined Bocha, but kind of a funny story now. But in the beginning, my father absolutely did not want any of this. He did not want me working at Bocha. He thought it was the first idea ever. And to be completely honest with you, the reason why I got my first role there is there was an administrative assistant. I think she should put in her two weeks. They were scrambling and I went and interviewed with your dad. And the general manager at the time came back and I guess told my dad, you know, I'm going to be honest with you. She's actually too qualified for this role. She has a degree, but she's okay with the pay. I think, you know, I think we should take her. Plus, she's bilingual. She speaks Japanese. Really kind of worked out. So that's how I got my official entrance into Bocha. And then from there, I've had every single role I would say in the company. I worked in marketing. Of course, started out in customer service. I did some inventory planning. I also worked in sales. And one of the other reasons why I do feel that I was so successful in Bocha at Bocha is because I've had amazing mentors. And every time they had an opportunity to branch off to a different brand, do their own thing, I was always a person that they went and spoke to my father about and saying, hey, I'm not going to take any of your other employees, but I want to take plan with me. And then of course, triggered my father and I starting to realize that, hey, I think she's pretty valuable in her operation. So then, you know, we would have to work out what that would mean. And so that was a way for me to elevate my role at Bocha. I think the biggest moment for me at Bocha was in 2010. And that's when I actually launched the Luminizing Black Mask. That was such a big moment for the brand and really put us on the math. Prior to that, of course, you know, we were gaining momentum, but the Black Mask is what really puts the brand off to the next bubble. And from there on, I really started helping out in point development, leading marketing. And then in 2014, I became general manager. And then really around 2017 is when, you know, we decided that I'm going to go on and take on that co-creator. Name, and title, essentially, officially. So yeah, this is story that we can speak to outwardly to our clients. And that's a little bit about myself and how I got started at Bocha. It's a great story. A few things that I found that were incredible, especially the way your dad and father, he ran the business, obviously, it's his baby. But he didn't just hand you the keys, like you worked exceptionally hard to get to where you are. Yes, and you know, I don't know if it's because he's Japanese. It's just that you know a lot of way, but yeah, you know, I think for him, and I really have to think him, he never wanted anyone to say, well, lands there because she's your daughter, like let's honest. And I think in order to avoid that from the very beginning, he was like, no, no, not going to happen. And then when I had that one, you know, I was really that one chance where my predecessor let me come on as an administrative assistant. And I think from there, really, the doors open. But I would say more than anyone else, I felt the need that I had to prove everyone wrong. I really had to. And of course, I wanted to, because I love what I do. But I had to go the extra mile. I was always the first one in the last one, working on emails when I was home, really putting in the extra efforts to build relationships with the retail partners. So definitely, it was almost as if I wanted to prove him wrong. But it definitely, I can't think of enough for just pushing me to where I am today. I think I think it was smart. I think that I think that and I actually wasn't going to bring it up. I thought the story was amazing. When I when I looked you up on LinkedIn, I actually saw all the roles that you just discussed linked like listed out on your LinkedIn. And I was curious. And I'm like, I thought it was her dad's company. Like, why is she, but it makes sense now. It makes so much sense now. Absolutely. And that's so funny. Bring that up because I even remember typing in those different roles on LinkedIn every time I got a promotion because I was so proud. And half the time I know he was the one that was like, no, we can't do that. In fact, I had one mentor who this was years ago. She wanted to give me a promotion. And I guess my father told her no. And she said, you know what? This is so unfair. She's your daughter, but it's almost like reverse discrimination against her. She's doing your job. She deserves it. And he told me after the fact, but I just thought that was really funny that he really went that far to object to something that wasn't. Well, he pushed you hard. And listen, now it paid off years later. So that's very good. Very, very good. So that's a great story. I really appreciate unpacking that. Can you help me understand a little bit more about even how your father conceptualized and he had a dream? Okay, that's great. But how do you just come to a new country and build like a global skincare brand? What's the experience? What's the strategy? Like right from the start? I'd love to know more about that. Great question. So Bocha started in 2002, but we actually have a parent company called Funkel. They're based in Japan. They're a huge multi-billion dollar company. He was working for Funkel at the time. And really their concepts, and we do take a lot of their DNA and their messaging, it's all about preservative free skin care. So their angle is they market and produce formulas for sensitive skin type woman. So really the initial plan was to bring Funkel to the U.S. and he did try them years, but due to packaging, just marketing, componentry, where the market was really with skincare, it didn't work. And so taking and learning from that mistake, but still wanting to take that fundamental value of this clean beauty concept, that's when Bocha was created. To really market it towards the U.S. consumers, packaging was larger. It was much more user friendly. It had more of a brand story. So that was where really the idea for skincare started. And then when he took that to the States, what were the first steps that he did to start, I guess, understanding the U.S. market? Because it's not only starting a business, it's starting a business in a market that, yes, he has like everybody has some concept of what the U.S. culture market is like, but still it's so much new all at the same time. And you still did it successfully. That's one I'm curious as to how we did that. Yeah, great question. So to be honest, one of the first ways that we really started to get our name out there, and of course, this is prior to anything being digital, was working with the newspaper company, putting in samples. And I remember driving around with my dad, we couldn't afford putting it with the newspaper per se because there was like a co-op for that advertisement fee, but we would go right after the news. And just kind of leave it right next to it. So, you know, we hope they would take it. Yeah. That was something we did a lot of and we did receive calls and fax orders when we did that initial run. We also partnered a lot with local festivals. That was the way to really get our name out there. But I do think in the very beginning, we really, really, it was such grassroots marketing. We were very hands-on. I mean, even old calling is something that, you know, we tried. And then once we had more of an establishment, of course, we brought on PR agencies and had one of an experts who were guiding us in the right direction. I do think another big breakthrough for Vosha was when we got our first break and we got, we were being sold at Henry so that was really a big point for us. It was almost advertisement to be able to have our products at such a prestige retailer at the time. And then from there, we were really fortunate to be able to partner with larger retail stores because our story was so unique. And, you know, no one heard what do you mean you create your products without paramount? You don't have any sulfate. That's so interesting. So I do have to think, you know, some of our growth to these amazing retail partners that we definitely partnered with early on. I would say within the past, you know, five, six years, actually more than that for the past 10 years, the Bora had been, has been a great partner with us. So that was also a great opportunity. And then in 2008 was really the most exciting year for Vosha and that we expanded our distribution. So up until then, we had been so far exclusive that was really the only place we were sold. So 2018 was a bigger. But to go back to your question in the beginning, it really was a hands-on. And even thinking back now, it was so difficult because it wasn't, you know, the internet wasn't really the thing yet, you know, there weren't influencers you could partner with. There wasn't really any type of digital presence. So we did partner, you know, with the traditional ad magazines, things that made her. So I just find it very impressive because when you get massive market share and you take market share away from all these incumbents that are huge, you know, in the States, I think the product, the natural, like the natural components of the product, grassroots marketing, but then you're obviously still, you're still killing it on social. Like when I look on social, like I think that your brand is probably ahead of people that have been around for much longer than you. So I think that you've always kind of stayed like ahead of that, of that marketing curve combined with the products that seems to be like, it seems to be common sense, but I guess common sense isn't common because not a lot of people I find are doing it. I spoke to, I spoke to somebody who was in doing hair products and it was the same thing. It was just a slightly different way of doing things and then understanding the current marketing environment. And that just seems like it's so simple, but I see a lot of legacy industries or legacy providers not doing it so well. I'm thinking through it why some people have such an easy time dominating social and whatnot and that's really like a secret sauce once you have the right product or whatnot. Very interesting. Okay, so where did I want to take this? What I don't want to ask you? Yeah, I want to understand for that the charcoal mask, I think that's probably the one thing that even I know you for, which is saying a lot because I don't know a lot about skincare. My skincare routine is whatever my spouse tells me to put on my face so that's pretty much it. So it all comes down from her, but she uses your charcoal mask and I didn't know this before we actually discussed doing the interview and then that just so happened. So I guess where did the, like that wasn't something that you were displacing. It wasn't like, this is like sort of like net new to where did that come from and how did you think through that and how did you take that to market? Definitely. So the charcoal masks, wow, what a game changer. So this was maybe 2008, 2009. Every summer I do go to Japan to see my grandmother, my aunt, and when I do take these tricks, one of the things I love to do is of course go and you know, check out skincare products. And one summer, I remember going there and all I saw was peel off the mask. That was just the trend there. And of course, back in the US, masks was not even a category that anyone came to. So I was really surprised and just infatuated by all these different masks they had. And then simultaneously on this trip, you know, my grandma, she obviously loves to share her stories about when she was younger. And the theme for this summer kind of was like charcoal. So she would just tell me all these crazy stories about how and she would still practice this, how they would use it to cook their rice because it really draws out impurities. So that was something that, you know, she was teaching me and then she would show me also how, you know, you can keep charcoal in your refrigerator and it really helps with the odor and whatnot. And so there was just all this conversation with charcoal. And then I really had this life moment where like, wow, there's all these different types of peel off masks. Carpool just seems to be this magic ingredient that my grandma just keeps talking about. It's like toothpaste, just all these amazing uses that charcoal has. And then that's when I started wondering, hey, I wonder if we could put this, you know, do it here and make a product. So if we came out to the US, worked with our team, actually came out with a submission. It was, you know, the black charcoal peel off mask. I remember at the time showing it to my boss. She thought it was a great idea. We then showed it to again, my father. And he was like, you guys are raised. There is no way. Like, who's going to put this on your face? And this was also at the time where you even walk into look at skin care packaging's white formulas, why everything was so clean looking that he just didn't believe in it. But we were like, you know what, this could be really cool. The packaging was black, the component, the tube was black, of course, the group was black. And we went to, you know, Sephora at the time and pitched the product, they freaked out because of course, skin care, again, just needed excitement. And this product brought all of that. It was of course effective. It was fun. It was different. It was really disruptive. And prompted actually a campaign for Sephora, where every month they would pull a couple of new products to give them a space at the front of the store. And this was one of the first products to be featured in that. And then of course, from there, the rest is history. You know, we sold out. We even saw a crazy growth in the mask category. Now I think mask is master so common. We even see it, of course, in mass retailers. And that was that was it for us. And then from the success of that, we were really able to build a charcoal franchise so that again, put Bocha back on the mat because again, not only is charcoal such an effective ingredient that really brought this fun element, adding color to the skin care space. And then what was really interesting is going back to the Luminize and Black charcoal fill off mask. In 2017, we just broke all the records because a social media video went viral. And she was using the Bocha Black mask. And that year, I mean, we couldn't keep up with the demand. So again, it just really reiterated how successful this mask is and how it's still relevant, I guess, today. Did you have, do you have any pushback? Because like, you know, even your dad said, like, well, this is not what, this is not what people know. This is not what people are used to. And that actually ended up working to your benefit. But did you have any like hurdles or was it just, was it just like Sephora loved it? Like consumers loved it. I'm just curious because like, taking a new product to that has no category and it being an instant hit, that's incredible. But that's very hard to achieve. So yeah, no, no, no, great question. I think a lot of the hurdles, we really experienced was internal formal manufacturer. Hey, I don't think this is going to work. Even, you know, from the marketing team, are you sure this is going to, this is going to make sense. But I do think because it was so you me, and there was nothing like that in the market at the time, when we did present it to the retailers, they, we both knew right away. This didn't work out. Of course, we did have to be very cautious as far as the instructions, usage, we even went as far as getting clinical testing results. So that way does know, oh, wait, wow, this does really work. It's not, they're just not saying, oh, yeah, it's going to, you know, your pores. So I would say the biggest hurdles were just internally, reassuring everyone in the team, like, it's going to work out. Don't worry. We just have to get to the finish line. And once it did launch, to be honest with you, yeah, we were very fortunate in that it was, it was very successful. You find, and you finally, people are like copycatting now, like to, oh my gosh, yeah, there is a lot of copycats out there, I would say. Yeah, it breaks my heart, but, but it's also, I guess, you know, the most sincere form of it. No, it is. It is, I guess, because you, you brought it now. I think that people see the success and they probably want to emulate for sure. Now, where do you see, I guess you're, I would consider you an innovator because you're bringing new products, you're disrupting. Where do you see the industry going? Like, what do you, what do you think is next? What do you think is going to be new? It could be by cause of the current situation. Our trends are going to change and beauty. Or is it going to say the same new product? I'm just curious because you're so into it. You're so deep into it. What do you see emerging trends in all beauty industry? That's such a great question. So a couple of things I've been seeing is, definitely, I do see more and more brands, whether they're in skincare, hair, or in color, really jumping on this clean, safe beauty bandwagon. So any type of trade show you a tent, they're all talking about, you know, are you a clean brand? Are you using good for you ingredients? So I think that's something that'll continue to be a big part in this industry. For both of personally, one thing we're really striving for is sustainability. And I do see that being a big trend that's happening within our industry. So looking at component that's, you know, 100% recyclable, is it made out of glass? So I think that's another big trend people are moving toward. As far as skincare specific and formulations and products, I do believe we were at a place where consumers were doing these 10, 15 multi-step skincare routines, where I do think now that pendulum has swung the other way, where people are looking for more of a product that has multiple benefits of usage. So I think that's always something I'm interesting for us to look at. So rather than, you know, using more different products, is there something, is there a product where you just use one and if you can do some of those same benefits? But I would absolutely say the clean beauty movement. I don't think that's going anywhere. I do see a lot of brands changing their formulations, become part of this. And I think sustainability we're going to continue to see, you know, not only from Mocha, but from other brands. How do we contribute to just be more responsible in terms of what we're putting out there? I think that's a hundred percent on point. Now my question, again, just because you're so in this, the second you introduce new ingredients, there was a reason, in my opinion at least, this is not, I don't know, I don't know what I don't know, but there's a reason why traditional ingredients were used because it was profitable. So by introducing new sustainable ingredients, does that change profitability margins? Does it make harder for new interns into the market because it costs more to push a product out in like an already highly competitive, I would say beauty is very highly competitive. So how does sustainability change the revenue and the dollar figures in the industry? Yeah, I mean, that's always something that we have to look at whenever we change ingredients or change component, it absolutely hits our bottom line. But what I've been finding through our research as it relates to sustainable components, it actually can be more cost effective to go that route. I do think some of these suppliers too are really hunger for these new for this business as well, so they're kind of willing to work with you. As far as ingredients, that is always difficult because we do use the highest grade ingredients. So for us, definitely it is the group that's driving a lot of this cost. So we do have to be really cautious, but what I really pride ourself at Bocha is that we really search globally for the best ingredients. So we don't just settle for one ingredient, we always push back, trying to making sure that we find the best ingredient, but absolutely, becoming sustainable can help out, I guess, depending on what type of vendors you're working with, and then swapping out some of those ingredients absolutely can drive your costs. And I think what's kind of interesting in the beauty industry is there really isn't any type of regulation. So like mentioned, some of these more established prestige brands. For them, I believe right now, they may be going through a process of eliminating some of those old ingredients and seeing, what are some other alternatives they can use without essentially driving their costs. Very interesting. And I think that also the one point that you didn't mention, but I think that it's definitely helping people that do approach sustainability, even if you're spending more money on, you may not be, but even if you are spending more money on the product, I think that the our current retail environment, our current consumer cares about that and they'll spend more. I've noticed that like repeatedly, they'll spend more if they know that that brand stands for something that they believe in. So that's something to take away too. So it actually ends up being a very much a win-win because you do have more sustainable ingredients in the product, but also you have people that are willing to spend and support those brands. So it ends up working out well for everyone. And I think that with the access to information, I think that you have to be a little bit more transparent about what you put into your products, beauty, or anything really. And that's something that I think people are really focusing on. I'm super curious, and I don't, I like to make evergreen content, but I can't avoid this question just because we're living through it right now. So obviously a lot of companies are in stores, in retail, selling through retail. You have a massive social media audience, so I'm sure you're able to sell online as well. What do you think is going to happen with the beauty industry if anything, maybe nothing, but if anything because of coronavirus and pandemic and retail being shut down? Do you think that people are going to evolve or die or what's, I love to get your input? Yeah, I think this has really been a big wake up call for all retailers, really. Of course, there is that.com part of the business, that majority of the sales does come through brick and mortar. So I do think that things will change and more focus will be put onto digital. I mean, a lot of the retail partners that we sell at, we are again at their mercy as well because these stores aren't open and that's where the sales come from. So I do think things are going to change. I think a lot more emphasis needs to be put on.com, whether it's making that platform much more user friendly, offering free shipping, as just as a regular basis, but I do think this pandemic has really put some light on the problems that brick and mortar are facing. And I think there was already challenges prior to this in terms of brick and mortar business. And this just really, really I think escalated those issues. And yeah, I think digital is really the way of the future. Have you now you're living through it? Have you made changes to your supply chain to your focus right now or are you expecting things like what's your reality for maintaining your top line? Yeah, it has been, this has been probably the most difficult time we've been going through as a company. Definitely, we had to make some changes and make some adjustments. Fortunately, we do have retailers that are open, so that's been helpful. But how do we still try to gain some sales? And so with boasha.com, we've been implementing free shipping, doing more promotions, trying to get creative and having an influencer takeover. I saw you had a live influencer yesterday. I went to your Instagram, I had just to sort of prep a little bit and you had somebody doing like the live takeover. It was good. Yes, I mean, she's awesome, but that was another creative way to help, you know, try to make some sales happen. But it's been very difficult. And I think, you know, we are so fortunate that in 2018, we made the decision to expand our distribution because if you were reliant on one retailer at this point, that would just be a complete disaster. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so that's very good. I guess I want to just ask one last question about boasha. And then I want to ask some more things about like, you know, your life lessons insights as an entrepreneur. But I just want to know, where do you want to take boasha next? Like, what's your next step for the company? Yeah. For boasha, next step is definitely want to just make this brand a national brand, a household name, really offering clean beauty. That's, you know, at an approachable price to all Americans. We're also distributed globally too. So that's something we have been working on. Definitely want to become an international brand as well. And then I would say another goal of mind for boasha within the next 10 years is going back to sustainability. We really just want to make sure all of our packaging is sustainable, whether it's 100% recyclable or using recycled material. But I do think that's so important. And it is our responsibility to make sure that we're leaving that earth for the next generation. Do you have any like teasers or ideas for a new product? Or is that not on the roadmap for now? Yeah. We, you know, when I see sustainable, I'm not definitely just saying we have put our words into action. So we actually just partnered with Terracycle, which is a recycling program. So this entices our customers to ship back. I believe it's five of their you are empty pieces. And then we'll send them a free full-size memorizing black mask. We're also working on some launches for 2021, teasing out some possible sustainable material for componentry. So definitely some tangent actions coming the way. Very good. No, very good. Okay. These are questions that I like to ask because I like to sort of like dive into into the mind of like an entrepreneur and figure out things that you've learned. So one question I love to ask is just one lesson that you tell your younger self that would help you get to where you are today, maybe a little bit quicker. Could be professional, could be, could even be personal, but something, something that you tell yourself. Yes, I would definitely go back and tell my younger self that, you know, if someone tells you know that can't be done, that may be a good reason for why you should try it. And what I mean by that, I guess is, sorry, let me back up, I guess. I guess what I would tell my younger self is to just kind of listen to your gut. So I had experiences in my younger career where, especially in regards to the brand like, hey, land, you can't say that your brand is better because it's alcohol free. You know, you can't say that you don't use caravan because essentially you're putting down these other brands and these were things that I would absolutely listen to and other other advice too, but I just wish that I had into my gut and stuck to my original feeling knowing that no, this is, this is who we are as a brand. Yeah. Greetings for X-Rine reason, but I think that could definitely apply to other areas where I think it was more of a level of a confidence that I would, I had, yeah, just stuck to my gut and listened to my inner self. I think that's, I think that's a great lesson and to, I guess, the way that I would interpret that is just own, own what you know is true and don't be ashamed of, don't be ashamed of if you are confident in whatever you're bringing to the world, it's fine and own that. And if you can own that, I think that makes you a stronger brand, a stronger professional, stronger individual. That's, that's, that would be my, like, takeaway and I think that it's, it's, sometimes it's, when you're building out something that's so personal to you, you do feel that, like, hesitation to say, I'm better than this or I'm, you know, we're better than this or whatever, but if you are, like, you can, you, you show it for sure and you better make damn sure that you actually are, but if you are, like, just own it, like, own what you're good at. And I think that that's something that you shouldn't try away from, but, yeah. Exactly. Yep. That's exactly what I was trying to articulate into words. So, yeah. No, I, I, I ask these questions a lot. So sometimes I have to, you know, you, you probably don't do interviews all day. So I try and just take what you say and, like, and, and, and turn it into, tell layman's terms, that's the best that I can do. But, no, is it really, it's a good answer? And it's really important because not a lot of people own what they're good at, what, and if, and that can, that can lead to so many issues in your career too, like, we're speaking about entrepreneurship, about building a business. The biggest, the biggest reason for people not getting a promotion or a job or a raise is because they don't feel like they have the, the confidence to ask for it. If you, even, even if you're going into a job, if, if you feel confident in your skillset and your ability, people don't go into a job interview and obviously now times are a little bit different than we were six months ago. We're at the lowest unemployment rates in, in almost like my lifetime. But if you go into a job, you have to just own what you're good at and you have to negotiate and you have to stand behind it. And if you don't have somebody who's going to appreciate it, I'm speaking about job and, and employer. But if you're speaking of brand and customer, if you don't have a customer that appreciates what you're good at, then, then you're just going to be vanilla. So I think that, and no, you have to have, you have to stand for something. I think there's this very cliche, like, stand for something or fall for everything. I don't know, probably from some movie or someone famous and I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to hate myself for not remembering where that's from, but it's, it's very relevant. I think it's very, very important to know that and to own your truth for sure, for sure, for sure. Last question I wanted to ask. So I've always found that people that are focused on building anything could be themselves. It could be a business. They always have mentors. They always have sources. It could be podcasts could be audibles could be people. I would love to know, first of all, who yours are, who your mentors or your people are, but also are there books, podcasts, audibles that you could recommend to people who are listening that you like to use as resources to learn new things. Yeah, great question. So I'm definitely a firm believer in having mentors. So definitely, previous GM's that worked here at Bocha are individuals that I keep in close contact with and definitely working within the beauty industries. There's also amazing female entrepreneurs that I have had the great honor of meeting whether it's conferences or at retail events. And those are people I do like to keep in touch with in every once in a while. Again, you know, see what they're doing with, with, you know, what they're working on. And I think that really has helped me not only, you know, validate that what I'm working on is, is, is right. And I'm on the right path. So that's a really great way for me to grow. I also do, I'm part of, it's called the war society, but it's local to Orange County, California. But it's just a group of women. There's probably about 100 and so members. And they are either entrepreneurs or business leaders. And about every couple months, they put together a series where they have guest speakers come in. And that's just a great place to not only learn, but to network. And through networking, I definitely have grown personally and just learned about things that I otherwise would not learn. On my say Scott, I really enjoy listening to your podcast. The last couple guests you've had was his name. He was the self-help book, the chicken noodle soup. Oh, Jack, Jack can't feel. Totally going to go, I'm actually going to go purchase his audio book because I just found that so fascinating. So I've been reading a bunch of like, like, like those types of experts more about self-help. And really, as far as podcasts, anything beauty-related, I think that mascara is one that I listen to. So I do try to keep myself busy in that regard. Yeah, well, it's important. So, you know, like, you mentioned a couple good points there, but one of them, like, you're just diving down into the industry that you're in. So obviously, not everyone listening is going to listen to mascara. But like, the point, the takeaway is like, whatever you're in, like, you have a resource that's teaching you things constantly bringing you new insights in that industry. My biggest resource is to listen to other podcasts and listen to how people interview and how they engage with guests and what people like asking, what people like responding to, and what people like listening to. And this is, you know, this is what I'm living. So that's how I do my research. But I think that, you know, for yourself or for anyone, if you're in an industry, find some resource that it could be, it could be just, like, high-level general professional development, personal development, or it could be industry-specific. And like, that's also a really, really great takeaway. Very good takeaway. Yeah, for myself, I guess I get really, really deep into industry-specific, but just really, yeah, whether it's following competitive brands and just for learning, you know, but they're doing what type of social activation. But you're always learning, that's the thing, that's, that's, that's so important to. Okay. If you, actually, I'll ask, I'll give you, I'll give you the floor. Is there anything that we didn't mention that you wanted to to bring up? So one thing we are really proud here at Bocha, of course, in the inline of this awful pandemic, we're living through is that we have been donating products to essential workers, essentially, frontline healthcare workers. We've probably donated over several thousands of hiturizers. We know that has been an issue for these healthcare workers as they have to wear those masks for very long hours. And really, that's what prompted this initiative. And so we're very proud of that. Another thing we recently did on social media is we did run a contest asking individuals to nominate essential workers that they felt, you know, needed a care package. So we ran that contest and we were just overwhelmed with so much nominations that definitely brightened our day to to be able to participate. But, you know, whatever, whatever small efforts we can make, we definitely want to contribute and help out. And we're just so grateful and thankful for all those essential workers out there that's out there while, you know, we're staying home and doing our best to stay safe. If people want to learn more, contact you, can they or how should they or how do they learn more about Bocha, like where would they go? Absolutely. They can find us at bocha.com online. And then I would say definitely Instagram is a great place to probably receive a much faster respond rate if you just DM us at bocha. And then, yeah, if they want to find me, I'm also on social media at land. That's all for today. Thanks again for joining me on another episode of the success story podcast. You can download or stream this podcast wherever podcasts are available, including iTunes, Spotify, Google, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, and many others. You can also watch this podcast on YouTube. If you haven't already, please subscribe and share this podcast with your friends, family, co-workers, and peers. Please leave us a rating on iTunes. It takes about 30 seconds, as it allows other people to find our podcast and let's our amazing guests reach even more people with their message. And remember, any rating is fine as long as it contains five stars. I'm Scott Clary from the success story podcast signing off.