Kim Perell - Serial Entrepreneur & Author | From Bankruptcy to $235 Million Exit Against All Odds

I have a twin sister. He would say you're not the smart one. Honestly, my first mistake was believing that the mistake continued to just put a label like I didn't need to have. And so dropping that label was huge freedom. This is Kim Perrell from getting fired to selling her first company for over $100 million. She was told she didn't belong in tech. She proved them wrong again and again. I just been fired for my job had no cash at that point. The dot com bubble had burst and everyone's like this internet. It's not going anywhere. But having just one person believe in you, that belief is insane how much that can carry through. Your confidence has to be greater than anyone else's doubt in you. A self-made success. A CEO who now invests in hundreds of other founders because she remembers exactly what it felt like to be underestimated. Her story isn't just about building wealth. It's about timing and trusting yourself before anyone else does. Do you think that everyone could be an entrepreneur? I think you can learn to be an entrepreneur. I've learned more from my failures than my success. That's why I wrote the book. I want to share that mistakes are not the end. They're just part of the journey. I think that the faster you get over yourself and understand that you will not be successful without a great team. It doesn't matter how you define your team, but that is so key to success in any area of life. Kim, I'm excited that you're here. So you're upcoming book. Mistakes that made me a million there. I love it because it challenges conventional wisdom. It's very contrarian. And if you look at your career, so you've built nine companies, you've invested in over a hundred, but apparently even more than that, what was the aha moment when you realized that mistakes were actually accelerating and helping your success as opposed to hindering or hurting it? Oh my gosh, that's hard to say. The exact moment when I thought think of one that really stands out. I think in hindering it, I would say from a very young age, I have a twin sister. And I was told that she was really good at everything we did. So she was stronger, faster, smarter in school. And if you would say you're not the smart one. And honestly, my first mistake was believing that. So like a 10, if you believe and you hear something and that was looking back, it was a huge mistake because I think a lot of kids, I'm sure people listening can relate that they have a brother or sister and they're definitely not the smart one or the sporty one or whatever the one that's the talented one. And you carry that with you. And so obviously I'm a twin. So it's magnified, but the mistake continued to just kept put a label that like I didn't need to have. And so dropping that label was huge freedom. And so looking back, if I could have corrected that mistake very early on, but you have to learn from that faster. So like how do you drop the label? How do you learn that you aren't that you are smart or talented or gifted and not letting someone else's idea of what you are like limit your actual potential? I think everybody is put into a box at some point in their life by their parents or best people or teachers, whatever. How do you get out of that box? Like what's the thing that got you to realize that whatever comparison people were comparing you to your sister, how did you get out of that box and realize you can do anything? You can build anything. You can sort of be different than what everybody said you were. I think it's coming, it's finding the confidence and the belief in yourself in whatever that is. So it's finding what are you really talented at? What are you great at? Whatever that is. And I think as I started to really understand my own strengths and what I was what I could be successful at gave me the confidence to have more confidence in all those doubters or all those naysayers or all those dream killers telling me what I should or I shouldn't or yeah self-imposing their limiting beliefs on me. And I think that happens a lot of times where let's just say from an entrepreneur perspective, people say you shouldn't don't do that. It's not even that you shouldn't. They're saying that because they wouldn't do that. Yeah. So your first business, you started at a kitchen table at 23 and your grandma gave you that $10,000 loan to start it. So what gave you the confidence to start that first business? What was the what was the drive that said, this is going to be a great idea. I want to gamble my own family's money on this idea, which I don't even know if I recommend people do that. But what was what was the thought when you were 23 and you wanted to go through this? I mean a 23. Was there thought? Yeah. I had less thought than I would have now to be honest. And I think that at that point, I'd just been fired for my job. I had no cash. The internet, you know, at that point, the dot com bubble had burst and every internet, they thought the internet was a fad. I was like, good, get a real job. This internet, it's not going anywhere. I mean, true, because so many companies went bankrupt at the time. But I had seen firsthand how to build an internet. I mean, I was in one, a company that raised a lot of money. Obviously, they spent not well. They also, they also went for us. So that that didn't work out well. But my belief in the opportunity of the internet. And it's similar to, you know, people called me, you know, they were like, Kim, you're crazy. Get a real job. This is a bad idea. Look what just happened. I mean, which is, which is true, right? But my grandma believed in me. And having just one person believe in you, it doesn't matter. That belief is insane. How much that can carry through. So if you think about as you were growing up or me, just those teachers or uncles or friends that believed in you, like that goes a long way. So it's interesting because I had lots of people that believed in me, but I didn't, they didn't have the experience being entrepreneurial. So they believed in me. But I knew at the same time, it was hard for them to see me do things that were not sort of the same as how they grew up. Right. So they wanted to, of course, had great parents and great upbringing. But I think that that's also something that people that somebody who is young, who is just starting out, they have to be aware of that. So somebody may believe in you, but they're also in some hesitation when you try and branch out on your own because they've never experienced it themselves and they just want to protect you. Yeah, they're trying to protect you by telling you not to do it. Exactly. So they believe in you. But then they're like, also, I don't want to see you get hurt. I don't want to see this blow up in your face, this company you're starting. Right. And so yeah, and you have to be prepared to risk failure or, and I had the competitive advantage, I would say that my dad is a true entrepreneur. So growing up, I mean, he's faced bankruptcy more times than I can count. Right. So I was not scared of failing. And so it was genetically, I did have a gift that I was like, oh, he's always on the course of, yeah, he's always going to go under like, this is normal. So I had less fear. I think because it was normalized for me at a very young age, watching him as I grew up. So when I asked my grandma, his mom, for the 10,000, she was like, oh, your dad's been doing this his whole life. So it seemed, you know, obviously it was, but having her make that bet on me was the game changer. Like for me, she says, someone makes a bet on you and then you have to make a bet on yourself. So it's not just about she betting on me, but she'd encourage me and gave me the confidence that I could create this. If somebody doesn't have someone taking a bet on that, say they don't have a supportive family. And sometimes they don't even have a supportive spouse. And that's difficult. That's probably one of the most difficult hurdles to overcome. What do you tell that person? Your confidence has to be greater than anyone else's doubt in you. And honestly, the best bet you can make is the bet on yourself. I agree fully. That's the, you know, the, just, there's different words for it, but like agency or internal locus of control, believing that you have absolute, you know, authority to architect your life and anything that happens to you, good or bad as you're on, there's like responsibility. And I think that that idea is so strong, but it's, it's scary. It's a very scary idea to think that you're responsible for everything good and bad. Well, and I mean, as an entrepreneur, like you are the CEO of your own life. So you can hire people, you can fire people, you can audit them out. Like if you think about that when you're creating your life, that you are the CEO, maybe you're not the CEO of your company that you're living in, but of your life you are and you have the executive decision making. What is the X factor that would make the personality of an entrepreneur that would make them successful? Because I think that this is, you know, you bet on the, bet on the jockey, like that's really what investors look for more often than not because you can find all these different companies, great ideas, but if it's the wrong person, it's not going to work out. So what is that personality trait that you need to see? I would say, and I've invested in a lot of companies, that the one personality trait that you need is resilience, perseverance, like the ability to adapt and like things are going to go wrong. I mean, I have a lot of companies. Things are always going wrong. The mistakes. The mistakes. Things are going to, I've made a lot of mistakes. I made so many mistakes and they've made me millions of dollars, but the thing is I adapt. I'm resilient. I persevere and having that just I will not quit unless there's no option. And that is what an entrepreneur needs to have is that resolve to keep going after everyone else would have already given up and thrown in the towel. Do you think that everyone could be an entrepreneur? I think you can learn to be an entrepreneur. Explain. Well, I think there's traits that you need in order to be a successful entrepreneur. So if you weren't, I mean, I was lucky because I grew up with entrepreneur parents. Yes, but I also think you can learn traits of entrepreneurship that could make you an incredible entrepreneur. So I think it's having a crystal clear vision. You know, it's having that passion that you'll keep going when everyone else wants to leave and it's it's taking action with the late nights. Yeah, like no one wants to get up early. I don't want to get up early, but I do anyway. I mean, just like that is what's being a great entrepreneur and it's having these these unique traits, but anyone can learn to have them. It's like, do they have the will to do what takes? So yeah, it's tough. Listen, you know, a lot of what you speak about now and we were talking about this before we press record, but you like talking about the mistakes. Obviously, yes, it's the name of the book. That's great, but like you really like talking about the mistakes because it normalizes it. And I think that an entrepreneur journey is so lonely for the majority of people and like we were talking about on social media, it paints his picture of how fun and how great entrepreneurship is when in reality, if you're actually building something, you know how stressful and anxiety inducing and so and so quit. And I got a lawsuit over here and you know, this customer just canceled and that was like 50% of our revenue. It's nonstop nonstop. So I think that talking about mistakes and talking about things that don't go right is probably more powerful for entrepreneurs than talking about things that do go rights. That's the reality, the reality. Oh my gosh. It is. I've learned more from my failures than my successes. That's why I wrote the book because I I want to share that mistakes are not the end, right? Like they're just part of the journey. So you have to embrace them, talk about them. It feels good to talk about them too. It does. It does. It's, you know, it's so in the moment you feel like your life's over, but after you realize you look back and like that's actually a great lesson. That's always what you have to do. You have to take the the failures as lessons and hopefully don't do them the next time. Yeah, don't make the mistake twice. I mean, you can make the mistake. Yes, but it you know, continue to make it probably is not the best the best idea. What's the story that really sticks in your mind and like, wow, I learned this. I hope that no one else would ever have to go through this, but it was monumental and shaping who I am. I think in building a company that big. So I mean, the company that I built, you know, did over a billion dollars in annual sales. So it's really the people picking the wrong people. It that mistake of picking the wrong people is the worst must it cost millions. I mean, in their statistics, I'd say obviously sea levels even worse. So the time it takes to hire the time it takes to read, you know, to fire the time it takes to learn from that mistake and then get someone new in as an entrepreneur or a leader, a business leader picking the right people is so key to your success that that team that you can surround yourself with. So I've hired a lot of bad people and partnered with the wrong people. I'm anything with the people. Oh, same. I've made so many most of them. They've cost me millions and millions of dollars. They're made like a bad sea level. Oh, yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. Oh, these are only names, but what was the what was the worst hire you've ever hired? This head of sales. That was so good at selling me, right? But then when it came down to it, it just all started to unravel. And, you know, I was running a big company and I just I assumed you there, honestly, perfect on paper, the POP. He was perfect. And then he was not perfect. You know what the worst part about that is that if you hire like a you know, if you miss and you don't hire that a player, you hire a B or C player, it's like this virus that infects your company because everybody else looks at them and they're like, wow, if they get away with all this bullshit, why do I have to work hard anymore? And it's just so toxic. And then admitting to yourself that you made the mistake, it's humbling. So then you have to say, I made the mistake hired the wrong person took you me a while. I didn't want to confront it because I don't want to confront it. It's hard to have that conversation. Then you have to tell your team. It's the wrong person too. It's just it's a compounding mistake that does cost over time so much money and to your point talent because A players want to play with A players. So if you brought in a B player, they're going to go find an A player to work for. So when you now choose to work with somebody, invest in them, hire them. What is the most useful hiring advice to make sure that you don't or just people advice to make sure that you don't align with the wrong person? I think doing more diligence because I trust off, you know, I trust easily. So if you told me Kim, I worked for these three people. They love me. I would have taken that of face value. Now I would definitely do a lot more diligence. And I'd start calling it really because you're like, oh, it's easy. I got to go. I got to move. I got to hire someone. A lot more diligence in terms of the value that that person can bring to the table. Net suite is a success story partner. Now business is brutal right now. Tariffs are crushing margins. Supply chains are breaking and cash flow. It is strangling companies every single day. And if you can't see what's coming and pivot fast, you're dead in the water. Now, here's what separates winners from losers. Total visibility. 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Yes. Mistakes that really obviously had a big impact on you. I'm assuming people and hiring on persons like one of those 10. But what would be out of those 10 mistakes that you know that we're sort of top of mind when you're putting this work together. What would be one mistake that is the most say universally experienced but least spoken about? So it's not going to happen to everyone but people don't really have an answer for it. Well, I think the one that I think is universal is that everyone, especially entrepreneurs, things they can do it alone. I mean, I thought that too. I'm like I can search for being a twin. I got this. I can do it alone, right? And you can't. The one lesson you learn is that no one is successful alone. And so the sooner you can get over your ego or whatever reason you think you have to do it alone and enlist, you know, people to help you. And I call it my people pillars, which is the people just as a house needs for walls. People need pillars to support them in order to achieve real success. It's going to be long lasting. And so I think that the faster you get over yourself and understand that you will not be successful without a great team. And whether that be mentors or family and friends, it doesn't matter how you define your team. But that is so key to success in any area of life. Why do people say they're self-made? I don't know. Ego, I assume. I don't really get it. I've never believed that anybody's self-made. No. And actually, everyone is getting help from someone in order to really scale. So if you just want, I'd love and even listen, if you're a sole entrepreneur, awesome, you're still getting help from someone. You self-customers. Yeah, you still. Yes. You're still dealing with somebody. So to your point, yeah, I think just surrounding yourself with that all-star team makes the or whether it be peers, right? Is there so many different pillars of people that it takes in order to achieve greatness? What was the point when you realized that you have to ask for help? Was it this is something that your dad taught you or was it something that after struggling with your burning through your grandma's 10 grand, like eventually? Oh my gosh. Yes. Yes. It actually was, well, listen, everyone told me I was going to fail. So I didn't ask for help. So obviously, because no one believed in me anyway. And when I started my first company, they're like, they're not because they thought it was going to be a failure, but because they thought the internet was a bad investment that they thought. He built us billions of dollars. Maybe you probably shouldn't go and do it. So I feel that. So I just, you internalize, okay, I'm just going to do this alone. I'm going to try to prove to everyone that I could do this. But I mean, that's a fatal flaw. So when I was working 18 hour days, I was constantly getting sick. One, there's a breaking point where my husband found me just on my computer after a long night with the keyboard on my face. You have an area in a Huffington moment? I didn't hit my head. No, I just was constantly burnt out, which I think a lot of entrepreneurs do because they try to do everything alone. And at that moment, you have to ask yourself, like, you're risking your health. If you try to do everything, I mean, that is what you're ultimately going to be risking. So having the courage to say, I need to ask for help. It takes courage. Yeah, it does. And I think that also, like, how do you know what you should ask for help with versus what you should figure out yourself? I ask for help on everything now. I literally, if there's something I now ask for, I don't care. I don't care if I look dumb. I don't care if someone laughs at me. I don't care if it's embarrassing. It's so much easier because if I don't know what there's an expert that does. And so the sooner I can acknowledge and know that I don't know something, and then find someone who does the faster I'm going to be more successful than I am. The idea of mentorship is very popular in business. But for some reason, we don't look for mentors in all the other areas of our life. And I think that that's, I think that's a, I think that's a flaw. I think we should. I think that if you, if you're struggling with a relationship, find somebody who has a relationship that you want. And then look at how they do it. If you're struggling to figure out wealth, money, investing, whatever, find somebody who's made some money and will tell you exactly what to do. And I've always found that, like, when you start asking around, people are so, so willing to give you advice. Yes, I could not agree more. If you want to get healthy, ask someone that's already really fit. The challenge is to make sure not to take advice from people who haven't been where you want to go to your point or haven't done what you want to do. You're taking advice from someone that hasn't even been there, you will not be successful. You need someone that has walked and it hasn't had to be someone that's 20 years ahead. How about one year ahead of where you are? Yeah, I think that's very valid. When you think about taking advice from people and I'm assuming that now, when you look at a company, you're like, okay, I want to find somebody who knows this industry. You know, it's funny because we're talking about some of your products and whatnot that you're building. And I'm like, do you not have a niche? Do you not like focus on like, you know, CPG or cosmetics or SAT? You don't. You are industry agnostic, which is fun, but at the same time, that means you're always learning new shit all the time all the time. So I mean, you have to bring in people or else is real money at stake. If you don't know anything about like beverage and you put X amount of dollars into it, you're going to burn. Yes. Oh my gosh. When I have the most amazing mentor and advisor that's been in beverage 30 years. So I don't think I need to know how to build a beverage company from the ground up. I'm a business person, but I am smart enough to know what I don't know and find the people that can come help me. And I think that is so key to anyone starting new findings. I mean, I've had so many amazing mentors in my life. I feel so blessed. And again, because I asked for them. So first, you got to go out and ask, but also because I know the value that they can create and building great companies. One of the things that you mentioned was that thinking business isn't personal as a dangerous mistake. What does that mean? I mean, listen, right now we're in a disconnected world. And I mean, it's nice to be in person, right? But most of, you know, time is spent disconnected. And over the course of my career, I can confidently say that business is personal. Everything's personal. I'm like, my grandma giving me a $10,000 loan. The partners that I choose to do business with, my employees, there is a personal thread that runs through every part of business. And I think believing it is not personal is a huge mistake. And I made the mistake. I was like, I'm a sole entrepreneur. I'm transactional. I'm just here to get the job done. Honestly, nobody cares. No one wants to do business with that person. It's true. And I think that I'm sure you see this now. And I haven't built a company since COVID. So I'm not hiring as many people as I would if I was building a company. But I think that post COVID we're also disconnected. We're still disconnected. And I don't know how you hire somebody virtual. I know it sounds so old school, but maybe I can maintain a relationship virtually. But to hire somebody and meet them for the first time and like build rapport with them and build trust with them virtual, I find it very hard. I find it very difficult. I don't know if you have different opinions for me. That was tough. 20 years in tech, I've had a lot of teams that were distributed. So I don't, but I feel from a cultural standpoint, I had a great amazing and an amazing acquisition and Tel Aviv. And to your point, I went there to at least meet and see them and get to know them face to face. I'm not saying you have to meet every single person in the organization, but the people that you're going to do business with and talk with like once a week or even once a month makes a difference. That was make a huge difference. Yes, I agree. So I because I love distributed aspect, but I'm very big on culture. So how do you and I like the companies that are, you know, they have quarterly meetings together. You just have to have some connection point. Because I think it's really important. If you lose the connection, you're losing the personal touch. Yes, and why people work 20 hours to try to help when some crisis happens, right? Yeah, they don't feel connected to it. Yeah, they don't care. Because it's not like, listen, when you're building anything, there will be mistakes. There will be things that don't work out. But ultimately, like, it's going to be people that fix those mistakes. Yes, it has to be people. It's not just going to be you. Mistakes are not just involving one person, right? It's a team that has to find a way to turn that mistake into a win in any circumstance. And they have to go to bat for you. I think that's anyway, that's that's one thing. It's harder though now. You have to actually make a you have to make a very big effort. So I mean, I have, you know, I talk about having tea or coffee and just having like that connection moment, just to get to know someone to spend a time together, just learning outside of business, like what is important to people. So spending that time is so critical because as we build, you're just going to become more and more fragmented and disconnected. I agree. And when you invest in entrepreneurs, do you, do you try and understand? And I don't know how all these different, I mean, like you have yourself, you have Mark Randolph, who you're on the show with, then you have like the shark tank, then you have the dragons, then you have all these different types of investors. Do you try and figure out what the personal goals of the entrepreneur are? Like, why are they building this business? Forget you. Is that important? Yeah, yeah, I'm asking. Is that important to you when you make investment decisions? I think the authenticity and the why behind why they're building something is what will push them to keep going when everything goes wrong. Yes, I agree with. So if you don't have a very strong why, a very strong vision, a very strong mission for why you're doing this, you will give up so much quicker. What was your why? What was your why? Because I know again, if you, if you go back, there's a lot of times when you probably were ready to throw in the towel and I mean, for me, honest, probably freedom. Yeah, it's a good way. Yeah, I just wanted that freedom and I think I was hell-bent on figuring out how to make it a success. I don't know, it's like, you know, it was that or go get a real job. Right. Those are the options. Not good options. I actually believe that entrepreneur entrepreneurship is actually is less risky in some cases than getting a job. And I say that because you are in complete control of your own future versus getting a job where you are not in control. And I think a lot of people saw that after COVID too. Well, there is no job security. So and I thought that to be honest, I've growing up my parents are entrepreneurs. I'm like, I'm going to get a real job at an internet company. So there was a little bit of risk to that. But at that point, I didn't think I'm getting a real job at a real company that a lot of money. And I do not want to go and be an entrepreneur. Then you learn the company goes bankrupt. I'm fired. I have no money. So that real job wasn't really a real. And so I think to your point, the best bet again, it comes back to what are you betting on? And you're in the better on the person that's leading the company that they'll get you to where you want to go. But to make millions statistically, unless you're a fortune 500 CEO, you're not making millions of dollars unless you start something yourself. Talk to me about, so there's some strategies for taking the mistakes that happen in your life and then turning them into millions. There's some very practical things. So I know that you list out 10 different mistakes. But regardless of the mistake, you have a couple different frameworks. You have a three R's framework for pivoting. You have actually the start with that one. So tell me about the three R's framework for understanding a mistake, pivoting, and then turning it into something that's useful. Well, I think number one is failing to pivot is a mistake. And I talk about this in the book and how, think of all the large companies, they've all had to pivot at one time or another, right? I mean, if you look at Twitter or YouTube or Slack, any company has already had to pivot. So I think the mistake is thinking you do not have to change. Like the market is going to move and now it's going to move faster than ever. So it's important to acknowledge the market is moving and you have to adapt and change it with it. So that's number one. I think it's really important. But how do you know that? Well, you know that because either a, your business is not succeeding. Like your sales are flat or but you don't know like when it's a case of should I push through or should I actually pivot? That's the issue. You don't know. So I think it's important to know, well, you kind of listen for some amount of time. If the business continues to decrease, you need to pivot. Like it's pivot or perish at that point because the writings on the wall, the question is, can you identify when it's time to make a change fast enough and make the change? Because too many people just run out of cash and they didn't pivot soon enough because they had to stick to the plan because they gave the board a plan. They don't want to make a change. And well, as a board member on a lot of companies, I would rather you make a change than just stick to the plan and have the company go 100% right? So please change, right? Please pivot. I think that is, you know, because you're scared to change. You're scared to say, I was wrong. And you're scared to say, maybe the market didn't turn out how I thought it was going to. Well, I think it's because like people get, listen, if you look at where companies started and we can use again, Mark Randolph who actually wrote the forward for your book, he tells the story of, I mean, if you look at how Netflix pivoted from a DVD rental business to Netflix, I mean, they pivoted a million times in between. But I think that I can't remember what his framework for pivoting or changing was, but without knowing the particulars, I know that it was a lot of not tying your identity up in the company and getting rid of the ego and getting rid of the, okay, so yeah, maybe this is what we built so far, but maybe it's not the exact thing that we need to have going into the future. And I think that that's a difficult thing, especially for first time entrepreneurs because they get so in love with their idea. And they become like their identity becomes their idea. So they're not even like people anymore. They are their business. You know what I'm saying? And then it's like hard, it's hard for them to think, what if I was wrong? Like, what if I was wrong? Like, what if I just give another six months? What if I just try and spend some more of my life savings on it? But then you have to ask yourself, do you want to be right so much or do you want to win? And I'm in the camp of, happy to pivot if I'm going to win, right? Exactly. And being open to that, but I think you're right. First time entrepreneurs definitely, and I've been there, it's just like, I actually was there when I started my first companies before social media, right? I mean, it's very early on. And I remember social media on Facebook, you'll talk about like, no, this is not I me. I'm a digital expert. I was built a great company by that point. Ah, social media is not going to be like, this is going to be big. Oh, like, obviously, then a client ended firing me as their agency. And I thought, okay, I got to pivot, obviously, because they said I don't do it in social media pivoted. And that part of my business grew to $200 million. So the pivot to embracing that change made me millions. But I was in the same camp of, no, I'm not changing. There's so it's a fad. I'm an expert. It's hard to think about it now, but back before there was a tweet or anything, this social media was not proven. So I just didn't adopt it. I know, but that was such a big mistake, right? Oh my God. That's what it is. You did okay. You did okay. Yeah. But, but I think it's also showing that if you adapt and you listen, obviously to the clients, you can make millions. You just have to be wise enough to listen and learn. How do you know how to pivot? I mean, so something's not working out. You even talk about some of the companies that you've invested in. Okay, it's not working out. Where do I go? Because now I now there's all this this this sunk cost fallacy right now. There's all this debt involved in the company. I have investor money that I put in my time, my energy, my resources. Shit. Like this is my bad. This is my idea. What do I do now when it didn't work out? Well, usually, and I've had a lot of companies, especially through COVID, I've had so many companies that had a pivot. There is a red thread of where they are to where they want to go, right? So something sometimes there's a sign of that that something is working. Maybe it's not the original idea, but some part of the business actually does show a sign of success. Obviously, then pivot to try that or try something new. I didn't know social media was going to be so big. I just tried it, right? I set up a, you know, I started doing digital advertising for social media. And so I think it's having the ability to test and be okay with it fails. I think that's probably key. Is being okay with that failure. That's always so important. It's tough. It's tough. If you don't come from that background, you try, it's so funny because it's so cliche, but you will fail. And that's actually what's going to set you up for success. I mean, I actually, so I pulled some quotes that you've set. And one of them was my mistakes weren't just stepping stones to success. They were the foundation. The failures are the answer. Yes, with every failure, you get stronger, you get smarter, you get, you adapt, you learn, and so you can move quicker. One of my other favorite quotes that you say, is fear doesn't prevent bad things from happening. It stops great things from starting. It's true, right? And I think that's the mistake. It's letting fear a failure paralyze you. So many people, and I was one like, I was one of them. I didn't want to, I was scared I was going to fail, right? Or scared it's going to work out. And that just haunts you. And I, you know, you wake up at 3 a.m. and you're thinking, oh, my company's going to go under or whatever you're thinking about. But, but then having the courage to push forward despite that. I just want to take a second and thank Cornbread Ham for supporting today's episode. Now, Cornbread Ham CBD gummies have been this really nice addition to my wellness toolkit. I don't use them every day just when I want to win wine after those extra busy weeks. 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The HubSpot podcast network is a success story partner. Now, if you like success story, you're going to love other podcasts in the HubSpot podcast network. One of my personal favorites is iDigress hosted by my boy Troy Sandage. Each show is under 30 minutes. iDigress helps eliminate complexity, complications, and confusion in your business with frameworks and strategies to achieve true, scalable, and sustainable success. If you're an entrepreneur building anything, you need to listen to iDigress. This is one of the most useful business podcasts. Trust me, go do yourself a favor and listen to iDigress wherever you get your podcasts. When you think about how you've built companies now versus how you've built them in the past, what do you do differently when you're starting Juni or when you're, I mean, you know, a book is a book is a company. A book is a whole business in it of itself. But when you're starting something like this, what's the evolution of Kim? How do you how do you think through an idea that is very different from how you think how you used to think through ideas? When I started, I was just, I thought, I knew everything. Now I'm so hard enough. No, I know nothing. Yeah, that's fair. No, but having like the knowledge to know that I am not the smartest person in the room and to find the people that are experts is a game changer in turbo charging your success, right? And so I think I probably would have done a lot more on my own. Honestly, at this point, I'm looking to create great companies with people that I really love to do things with and solve problems that I really want to solve. And so if you're doing both of those things, you're creating, you know, it's like magic. Yeah. When you think about what problems are exciting for you, that obviously means that there's a financial incentive as well because that's a big enough problem to solve. So when you think about the problems that you want to take on, what is your framework or your thought process for deciding which problems are important enough, fun enough, exciting enough when you think about a drink, for example, a beverage. Well, beverage, I think is interesting. So for me in starting this, it goes back to the why, my partners and their why of having tea growing up with their families and having that moment of connection. So Juni stands for just you and I. So like me and you, just you and I are having a moment of connection together. And I think for me that why is really important. It's just like how do we get in such an insanely fast world? How do we have a moment to just be mindful and have a point of connection? And I think grounding in that and then saying, okay, how big is this market to be disrupted? Because our goal is to do tea differently. So it's a tea 2.0. It's not your grandma's tea. This tea is functional. It's flavorful. It's full of mushrooms and ashwagandha. Yeah. Delicious. Yeah. And it's a big category. I think tea is 50 billion plus function is 20 billion. There's a big market opportunity. And so you have to have that in order to really be able to see how big this type of business can get. But that's cross category, right? I'm an investor in B2B SaaS. I'm an investor in Web 3. I'm an investor in beauty. You name it. They have to be grounded in a why that I can get behind. If I don't believe in what you're doing, I definitely not the right investor for you. No, and I think that like the one thing that I pulled out from that is that there is a story behind it that makes a lot of sense. Like there's a story. Like there's an emotional component to this. Oh my gosh. Of course. Yeah. When someone pitches and I get pitched 20 times a day, the if you come and you tell me your story and I can resonate with it, that will make me want to invest. Yes, I have the validate. It's a big market opportunity. But at the end of the day, I'm betting on you. Yeah. And if you if that investor of that entrepreneur has that story that's compelling enough, you know that story is going to carry them through all the bullshit that comes with building a company. I'm so curious. I'll go back to the mistakes in a second because I still want to ask you a couple more questions about that. And I want to talk about some mistakes that maybe you're not good mistakes to make. But when you think about all the different types of companies for consumer goods, that makes a ton of sense. For B2B SaaS or for I guess less sexy, fun companies, what is the story that an entrepreneur would have for that that will get you excited? I think innovation, disruption, doing things differently, taking out of you know, someone that's been doing it the same way for the last 20 years and they obviously there's an opportunity. So I think really anchoring or what's the problem we're trying to solve, right? So whether it's loyalty and engagement, whether it's predictive intelligence for retail brands, it doesn't matter, you know, it's something I really want to, it's a problem that they believe deeply. Yes, it has to be, yes, that the entrepreneur really, and they're waking up every day, so excited to solve this challenge and this problem. So just to speak about, you know, the whole theme of the book is mistakes that made me a millionaire and you list 10, but there's obviously a lot of different things that have not worked out, but learning from those lessons that it's been a positive when you think about things even in your own life, in your own businesses or even in the companies you invest in that are the biggest mistakes that people make that are not positives. Basically, the things that are, you know, stay away from these as much as possible, what would be some of those mistakes that you see repeated that can absolutely kill a company? I think, I mean, waiting to feel ready for anything, I think everyone says their thing, I'm going to make the perfect side, I'm going to make the perfect deck, the perfect social media, like, forget perfect, just move, action, you know, fast, bad decisions, better than a so good one, you got to move, and I think right now moving quicker is so important. So trying to get 100%, I see so many amazing, talented people that just sit on the sidelines trying to perfect something that actually, once you get to market, the market's going to dictate if they like it or not, doesn't even matter. So I would say that's universally, everyone's waiting to feel ready and you're never going to be there. I've seen a lot of entrepreneurs inflate numbers and inflate progress, and I think that that's the number one way to kill trust. I think that every investor, and I know a lot of them, yourself included, every investor basically will say the same thing, but it's some version of, I can always work with the truth. We can always work with the truth. It doesn't matter how bad the truth is, but you can work with the truth. And I think that that's something that if you feel imposter syndrome and you're scared about communicating with your investors, you're scared about what the reaction is going to be when you're not hitting your milestones, the truth will set you free, and the truth will help you figure out how to overcome that, because they're on the same team as you. Yes, they want you to be successful. Oh my gosh, I get more calls with Kim, can you talk? Yeah. That means like something bad to come make, but I'm a great investor because I've been there. Like I understand it's hard. And so my job as an investor is to help you get a great return. So asking your investors about how do they help you? Right? Trying to do it again, trying to do it alone, never going to happen. If you if you embellish what's happening, yes, I definitely would not invest in you, but I can tell that with you said me a pitch deck, you're five, you hockey stick growth, you make a ton of it's not happening. I already can tell you like I see it all the time. So it's upsetting me that is, uh, yeah, I'm your five, you're probably the head of the park. No, you don't, like, okay, it's funny. Um, if you wanted to, I want to just ask you a couple of rapid fire to close this out, but if you if you know, people just want to take one lesson away from this book, the most important lesson, you're given a couple different ideas, but think of just one, that's the only lesson they can take from it. What would that lesson be and why? Start before you're ready. I love it. That's so important. That's so, so, so important. When you think about the success you've had, what should someone's motivation be? Not financial success, but what should someone's motivation be when they're building a company? I think comes back to your why? Why are you? Yeah, it comes back to your why. Why are you building it? Because that's the only thing that will pull you through building a company is so hard. Mm-hmm. It is so tough and it's so exciting at the same time. So like the thrill of that roller coaster, but if you don't know why you're doing it, you will not be successful. What's the biggest misconception that somebody that people have about entrepreneurship? That there's an overnight success and there's no overnight success and don't listen to anything you see on social media, even though it's on social media right now. I get it. You know, I think people look at that, but they don't see the struggles behind what's actually happening in the real life. I tell that to people I see all the time, like don't, you have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. If you're going to give a view of that, people will feel a lot better. And that's why I want to write about mistakes because I want people to share like mistakes need a makeover. Let's talk about the mistakes. Let's share that because that will help us learn from each other's mistakes. That will help us get better faster. And I think that shame that's tied to mistakes, that has to change. I agree fully. I fully, that's why I'm happy you put this out there and I'm happy you're talking about mistakes because it's something that I'm trying to include more in my content. Somebody asked me about, I even told you before we recorded some of the things that have not worked out and someone I don't, I kind of just like gloss over them usually, but someone I was speaking and someone asked me about, you know, what has been your biggest mistake. And I went in, like I didn't name names. I don't think that's good, but I went into like everything that didn't work out in my life and they were like, damn, okay, you have to like trauma dump on us. Yeah, therapeutic. Yeah, right. No, but it's, but then they're like, oh, that's a good lesson. All these lessons about partnership, there's lesson about opportunity, there's lesson about maybe building something that's not in your core competency. There's all these lessons you can pull from that. There's lessons about being okay quitting when it's not working out. I have a question. Yes, mistake number nine, winning too soon. That's all, I mean, but that, all these things, it's so personal because what's too soon? I don't know, it depends on the person, right? You know, you've built incredible companies, you've built an incredible brand. What would be the highest personal price that you've paid for all this, the people don't know that you've paid? Time probably. I don't think people see the amount of late nights, early mornings, time I missed out with, you know, friends, parties. I mean, I, if you know me and you went back for a long time, you would know that I just worked. Like, that was my, that was my focus. Now, I have a family, so it's different, I think, before I didn't, so I could do that, but I definitely missed out on things because I was always working. I think that you, you said something that's very important though. Like, there was a season of your life when you're okay with work, but then you have to understand there's a point where work isn't everything too. Yeah, yeah. And I think, and I talk about that in the book too, and staying too long, you know, you stay places too long. I think that's such a disservice. You stay in relationships too long. You stay in things too long because it's comfortable. Whatever, whatever reason you're doing that, but that comes at a price and that price is time. Time you could be doing something else, could be sharing your life with someone else, could be creating something else. Yeah, that's very powerful. I think that everybody, when they're living through any of these mistakes, they know that they're mistakes. And I think that normalizing the conversation gives them the ability to say, okay, you know what? When it's time to take action, take action, and move on or pivot or do something different or, or, or end it or whatever it is. But the point is, I think too many people default to, I'm living in a mistake and I'm, I feel like there's something wrong with me. So I'm not going to quit the business or pivot or quit the relationship. I'm not going to do that because then that's admitting that I screwed up. This book is saying that listen, there's times where you should persevere and you figure it out, but there's also times where it's very okay to end that part of your life. Yes, and just admit the mistakes, right? I think to your point, people, they're shaming them. If we let that shame go and just talk about it as a normal part of just the path to success, which it is, everyone's going to make mistakes. So let's embrace them, learn from them, and then move on. I love it. Where can people, I mean, the book will be everywhere you can get booked. So Amazon and everywhere else. Where should people follow you and connect with you? Yeah, please, Kimperel.com. You can go to my site. We've got amazing some free downloads for a millionaire mindset and all the tricks that I use in order to make sure I maximize my success. And on social media, LinkedIn, obviously, I love big business gal. So LinkedIn is your go-to. I love LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn too, but yes. Yes, I'm a business person, right? LinkedIn, Instagram, probably any social media platform at Kimperel. Okay, perfect. If you, out of all the things you've learned in your life, say you're only allowed is last thing. You're only allowed to pass on one lesson to your kids. What would be that lesson? It doesn't have to be business. It could be, but what would be that lesson and why? Kindness. It would just be being kind, regardless of circumstance, regardless of anything going on, just being kind. I think it's like the golden rule, right? If you are kind and I think that you assume the best in people, that's how I like to live life. I think that life will work out more often than it doesn't. 100%. Yes, I've got four little leaders I'm creating. So they just grow up to be kind. I will feel very, very grateful.