Kevin Makely, Actor & Producer | Producing a Netflix Top 3 Nationwide Blockbuster

Welcome to the Success Story Podcast. I'm your host, Scott Clary. On this podcast, I have candid interviews with execs, celebrities, politicians, and other notable figures, all who have achieved success through both wins and losses, to learn more about their life, their ideas, and their insights. I sit down with leaders and mentors and unpack their story to help pass those lessons onto others through both experiences and tactical strategy for business professionals, entrepreneurs, and everyone in between. With a further ado, another episode of the Success Story Podcast. Alright, thanks again for joining me. Today I'm sitting down with Kevin Makeley. Very excited. Now, Kevin is an actor-producer. He's known for Badland, a zero-vill, big legend, and if you look on his IMDB, there's a whole bunch of other notable works that he's been in. But right now, I'm excited to speak with Kevin for a variety of reasons, but Badland is an indie western that he produced and he starred in. Alongside Country Singer, Trace Atkins, Golden Globe winner, Mira Servino, and Bruce Dern. Right now, Badland is doing incredibly well on Netflix. The short premise is it tells about a gunslinging detective, Matthias Breacher, played by Kevin, who was hired to track down Confederate war criminals, and it hit Netflix two Fridays ago. It started out at number three on Netflix's movie chart, and number seven overall on Netflix's entire library, and that's 167 million subscribers. I just pulled those stats and obviously thousands of movies. So that's incredible. So Kevin, I want to speak about, first of all, thank you for sitting down. I want to be, yeah. I want to chat about, but I also want to, I want to speak about, like, I just want to get a little bit of context about, about you, about like, who, who Kevin is, you know, you're acting now. Is this something you've done and wanted to do your whole life? Just walk us through like your, your story. Yeah, five hours. Yeah, for real. Wait a minute. Feel free to cut me off any time, but we'll go back to the beginning. No. Yes, I've been acting for over 20 years professionally, not successfully, but professionally. You know, it's been a long hard road. You know, my creative outlet when I was younger was musician, obviously, I mean, you can, you know, I, I play bass. I was in a lot of bands and stuff, hair down here. And, you know, the acting bug, you know, when I was a kid, it was raised by a single mom. You know, it was just my mother and my brother, we grew up in the woods in upstate New York and the Kipsy New York. And I don't have any male role models. So my mother was a big movie buff. She was like, she was a huge trekkie. So every night at 6 p.m., we would eat dinner, you know, in between her nine to five and her night job. We would sit down and watch, we would eat dinner and watch Star Trek. And that's, you know, that's how I grew up. And every weekend, we would go to the movies and sing whatever, you know, I'm an 80s kid. So we would see E.T. Star Wars, you know, return to the Jedi. Jaws, it didn't matter. Well, Jaws is the 70s, but it didn't matter if it was rated R and not my mom was pretty cool like that. You know, she just wanted to see whatever was the new cool movie, you know, she was a young mom. She wanted to see movies. And she had two young kids, you know, it's not like today we sit home and I can order trolls, world tour at home and put, you know, put my kids on the couch and they can watch. We would have to go to the movies. So we have anything that she wanted to see and take us to see we went, you know, we would wait in line, blockbuster lines, you know, back in the day. So we grew up in movies TV and music. My mother's a, you know, a pianist. So she, you know, music filled the house. And I always thought acting, you know, was an unattainable, you know, was for those people, you know, the movie stars, did the acting, but my mom bought me a bass when I was 14 and I was very into, you know, playing bands, rock and roll, heavy metal, you know, was into all that stuff. And then, you know, and I got to be, you know, later, you know, 1920 or whatever, I could, you know, I started seeing, you know, like, like looking into that world a little bit. And the New York City was just a train ride away. One day, there was an open call. I used to get backstage magazine. I don't know if anybody knows what it is, but it's just, you know, it was a factual paper and you follow about acting in news and this and that. And in the back of it, it had like classified ads. And there was this open call for a Woody Allen movie called Celebrity. I think it was 98. And I called up my good friend Wade Griffin. And I said, Wade, we're going to take the train. You know, you're going to be my sports system. I'm going to go do this open call for the movie. I'm going to go for it now. I'm going to go for it. And I did. It was my first audition, my first anything. And it was, you know, what we call a cattle call, which is basically a thousand people lining up around the block to go into audition. So we, you know, I finally got in in the room. And there was Woody Allen. I'm probably eight hours, six to eight hours online. I mean, forever all day long. I got in and did audition or anything. But you just talked to Woody Allen. I mean, he took the time to talk to everybody. It was Woody Allen. I mean, Woody Allen. I'm like, wow, this is happening. I like the veil was lifted. And, you know, the Hollywood, you know, misty kind of, you know, whisk the way for a second. There was Woody Allen. And he was so nice. And he gave me my two minutes. He talked to me, whatever I went about, you know, went on with my day. And they wrote notes on my picture. And I left and, you know, couldn't get it out of my head. Oh, no, what did I do? You know, just, you know, that whole thing. And then like a month later, I get a phone call. I got the gig. And, you know, it was just glorified background. You know, it was an extra. But I got the gig. I was on a movie. I got to walk on set. And I wound up having like a featured role. No lines. But I was like the cool guy getting out of a limo going to a nightclub with some girls. And, you know, it was, it was really cool. I had a good time. So we shot that all day. And I got to talk to Woody Allen. It was very nice. Again, you know, and he treated me like I was just one of the regular actors. It was really cool, really cool experience. And then about six weeks, eight weeks, four weeks, whatever, a little time after that, I get a call again from the same people. They have to reshoot the scene. They had a problem with the actress that was in the scene. They have to reshoot the scene. So we reshoot the scene. And it's Charlize Theron, who is now in the movie. And she wasn't really anybody back then. I think she did move two days in the valley at that time. But she was an up and coming. So we reshot the scene. My role got truncated quite a bit, but I'm still in it. And I still got to work on it. And that was really my introduction into the film business. And then I realized, wow. And if I keep working at this, I can do this. I, I, there's no reason I can't do this. So it was hard to balance the bands and the pursuits of the acting dream, because you know, a band is 150% commitment and acting 150% commitment. And it was very hard to, to do both. So I still play, but I, I, I put the band and did everything I could do to move to New York City. You know, I worked just like five jobs, you know, between Fckipsey and New York and I commuted until I could find, you know, save up enough money and find a place. And then I moved to New York City. And that's how I started the whole thing. But I was a personal trainer was my day job in New York City when I was, you know, and then one thing led to me. I'd say, I told you, I'm long-winded. And that's just the first audition. No, no, it's good. Well, like so, like it makes a lot of sense, because the second you decided, sort of like run after this pursuit, it's when that, that veil was lifted, like that, that, it turned from like an esoterical into like a tangible and actually really liked that story a lot, because it's still not easy. Like you're still working five jobs and you're sitting like, and to be honest, man, like deciding between playing in a band or being an actor, those are both to start very low, low paying gigs, you know what I mean? Yeah, but you know, I'm an artist at heart band. So you got yourself, you know, and you know, it was all, you know, you know, it was in a rock band and a heavy metal band was, you know, the highlights of my life. We used to play gigs and people, you know, dancing and washing and, you know, and screaming. It's a lot of fun. Yeah, it's so fulfilling, but yeah, I got the acting bug and I didn't look back. So, so how did the career progress? Like how did you get to like, you know, acting is not, is not producing. So what like, just walk through, you don't have to go through like every single thing you've done to know you've done a lot, but just walk through that if you can. Well, so yes, I finally, you know, made my way to New York City and you know, you have to be there to do the audition and I ran, you know, I ran the gamut, I had a little bit on, on Sex and the City, I had a, you know, a little bit on the sopranos, all uncredited, just on screen, you know, like a lot of featured background stuff. You know, walk through all those shows, you know, as there were all the soaps that were on, I had little parts on them and I, you know, I did all that and New York really wasn't, you know, it was kind of on the decline for productions at the time. So I actually had a little role in Beautiful Mind in that time as well and I did some commercials, I got my sad card, you know, things were off and running and I met a gentleman named Joseph Middleton, really big casting director. And most recently, I think he was the VP of casting at Paramount for quite a few years, but at this time he was on his own and we became good friends. We had a mutual friend, became good friends and he really influenced me to move to Los Angeles. He said, you know, you have to be in Los Angeles, you know, because that's where it's happening. So I left, you know, I mean, that's the commitment. You have to make the commitment, you know, you, you know, I'm a New Yorker, you know, I was there during 9-11. I was like, you know, I've born and raised in New York, I'm a New Yorker, but I made the move and, you know, I pursued the dream, you know, I'm an all-or-nothing kind of guy and you've sent me to LA and then, you know, like there's so many close calls and ups and downs and ups and downs and I don't want to say I quickly learned because I didn't quickly learn, took me decades, but it's a business where you, the only control you have is over your own instrument. You have no control of what anybody else is going to do. You just, there's just no control over you, you know, you get an audition, you spend as much time as you can possibly spend on that audition or whatever it is, you get a role, you work on the role, you do all that, you know, but you get this audition and, you know, sometimes you have an hour, sometimes you have three days to rehearse a page, 10 pages, doesn't matter. You go in the room, you do it, you do your best and then you leave and you get a call, you don't get a call, and usually you don't, you know, nine times out of 10, you don't and I don't want to say I has a lot to do with, it doesn't have a lot to do with your performance because you can give an amazing performance, but there's a hundred other people given the same performance or different levels of performance, you know, it could be 10 people, it could be 300 a lot, but there's a lot of people up for it's only one person get the role. So there's not, you don't have a lot of control over that. So at one point, I decided, you know, there's a lot of people between you and yes, and at what point, you know, I'm the kind of guy, you know, I was a bodybuilder for a spell, you know, all natural and the steroids, you know, in a band, you know, do the band. I, I, a personal trainer, I always perform myself, you know, 150 percent, whatever I do. And then it took me a long time to realize, but, you know, that I wasn't in control of this at all. I can only be in control as much work that I do, but once I do the work, it's so at one point, I decided, you know, what, why can't I just make my own movies, do the movies that I want to do? And I, and I found a group of like-minded people that were, you know, that felt the same way in all different aspects from, from shooting the film, from, you know, the director of photography to producers to casting directors to, you know, directors and writers and, you know, all these people that are struggling the same way that I am, you know, I don't even say we're all masters, but, you know, masters at their craft, but not successful monetarily, not out there. And we all kind of banded together and, you know, people come and go within that group, but the core is there, and we started making our own movies, and they resonated a little bit. We wound up getting, you know, we made five films today, five films, and, you know, I produced them, you know, from start to finish. I don't, I started three of them, two of them on, you know, I'm just kind of in, but helped to make them for everybody else. And, you know, we got the first three got destroyed by Sony Pictures Home Entertainment. The second two got distributed by a company called Synodon Entertainment, and the most recent one is Badland, and it got distributed, you know, I mean, you know, 20 years in the making, this career of mine, I mean, you know, it's seemingly, you know, overnight success, nobody heard of Kevin Makley, you know, you know, and now all of a sudden, you know, 40 million people saw my latest movie. It's amazing, but so Synodon Entertainment put it out, and they have a good connection with Netflix. The cast was very, you know, it's a great cast, me or sort of, you know, Brewster, West Duty, Trace Actions, you have a Tony Todd, Amanda Whist, Kevin Makley, and they put it on Netflix, and it took off. I mean, it just organically took off. There was no marketing, there was no anything. So I went from, you know, the guy who took the train to a cattle call audition, you know, an hour and 45 minutes, a catacola audition, you know, then traversed to another coast, you know, did all that, all the auditions, and all the struggling, and you know, struggling to pay my rent, and not knowing where I was going to live, because this is happening, and that's at all these, all these things, you know, and along the way I've worked with Russell Crowe, I've worked with Ron Howard, I've worked with Billy Bob Thor, and I've worked with Naomi Watts, you know, all these huge actors, Oscar winners, along the way, little parts, but here and there, made all these little like, I can't believe this is happening, you know, all these ups and downs, and then, and then finally, you know, it's all about, you want your work seen, your hard work seen, and organically this movie that we sweat blood for went to Netflix, and there was no marketing push, you just, March 26th, what's new on Netflix? 20 movies and Badland, and all of a sudden, Badland just the number three watched movie on the whole website, number seven in the overall, you know, and now I'm talking to you, and it's, you know, and it's, what a ride, man, what a ride, it's how does that happen? Like, I have no idea, I'm not, I have, how does something like that happen, because you're seeing this more and more, and I'm seeing some of these, these movies come up that, that didn't have the, you know, 50 million dollar marketing budget, you know what I mean? Like, it's incredible. We're in a weird time, obviously, you know, the coronavirus pandemic, a lot of people are home watching movies, you know, and I think, I can't wrap my head around it, right? On one side, there's, you know, millions of people are home streaming, you know, so much of me like, hey, you're up, they have to downgrade the quality of the streaming, because so many people are watching, and there's not enough bandwidth, you know, it hasn't quite hit that here yet. I think we have a pretty strong internet, you know, America, but, you know, they're talking about it. I mean, that's how many people are streaming at the same time, record numbers. So so many eyeballs on, on, on these streaming services. So what are the chances that they're going to pick my movie, you know what I mean? But at the same time, so many eyeballs on it, and they picked my movie, and so many people picked it, then it wrote to the top. So, you know, what was it? It was it because there were so many people, because you think the more people that are watching something, the chances go down for all of them to look at your thing, but at the same time, with so many people watching it, the chances go up. I don't know, it's a, you know, it's a crazy, I think I'm talking a sense here, but I think, you know, no, no, you're not. No, you're not, but you know what I think it speaks to? I think it speaks to the quality of the content, because you could go both ways, right? So you look at the other things that are, I don't know, very popular on Netflix, like the only one I can really think of right now, outside of what's going on with Badland right now was Tiger King. And you know, that one took off, but it's not positive reviews. If I look at the reviews of Badland on your Instagram, or just even, like anywhere, you see the reviews are all very positive, like, you know, solid, western, like, like, like very, very good reviews about the quality. Nobody is saying good things about Tiger King. They're saying it's an absolute shit show, and it's entertainment, but it's not quality, it's not quality content. So it's like, it can't take your eyes off. The content of what you're watching is like a train wreck, but the people that made that film were super talented to be able to put that whole story together, the documentarians, as you call whatever that, you know, the people that produced that show are great, you know, but the content, yeah, I mean, it's like watching something on Jeffrey Dahmer, you know, like, can't take your eyes off it, but, you know, it's a terrible thing to watch, but you know, some made it, and it's entertaining. So, but to speak on, on Badland, yeah, you know, it's a western, I don't know, maybe the timing was right. I mean, I like to think we shot a great western. I know we have a fantastic cast. I mean, you know, my cast is unbelievable, and I'm so honored and privileged to, you know, share the screen with each and every one of those amazingly talented people. But it's also a tale, you know, it's a tale of the American West, you know, it's a fictional tale, you know, loosely based on some kind of historic events, sort of, but not really. And, you know, I mean, the period was right, we, you know, the costumes were right, the guns were a period, all that stuff was accurate, you know, the time period was accurate, just the story obviously was fictionalized. But, you know, I find that westerns are the mythology of America. They're, you know, Jesse James, you know, is the Robin Hood of, you know, the Old West of America, you know, Billy the Kid and all these guys, you know, they're the King Arthur. They're, they're the, these larger than life people that have been told in stories, passed down a generation, a generation, you know, much like, you know, King Arthur and the Roundtable and X Calibur, and, you know, and now, you know, these are our stories. And we're home bonding over this, you know, this pandemic, this crisis. And maybe people are feeling nostalgic for, for an Italian, it came out at that time. And if, if bad land is filling that, you know, giving a little escapism or, or filling that need for something, you know, homegrown, I'm honored and, and, and, and touched that we can be that platform for people to watch and escape a little bit. I think, I think that could be accurate. I think that, I think that, you know, you don't see a ton of Westerns come out anymore. I don't, like, I'm just thinking back, I don't remember, like, I, I can name a few, but like, there's not like an influx of, of Western movies being, being made. So I think that the timing was right. I think that, yeah, it could be a little bit nostalgic. I think people are, are looking for things that, you know, maybe they've, maybe it's just, they, they're looking for things they've never heard of before. And they found it, like, you know, the hidden gem. And they're, they're sort of latching on to that because I think, just, I think there is, you know, it's, it's not a, it's obviously not a great circumstance what we're dealing with, obviously, but, um, it could be the perfect storm of events. It's leading people to consume other types of content that isn't like that blockbuster, you know, heavily promoted, heavily produced content. I think people enjoy that stuff too. Because, like, like, has an indie, I'm not, I'm not as involved in film as you obviously, but has an indie film ever received this much notoriety on Netflix? Do you know? I don't have so. No, but, you know, if you go back in, in history, like, Slumdog Millionaire was like that, you know, when nothing to huge, you know, or go that, I mean, that's a, you know, a foreign film. But if you go to, you know, think of like, uh, Napoleon Dynamite, for example, this little movie was just a little indie film. I mean, it did the festival circuit, it did all that, but it blew up into a phenomena. A different medium, obviously, it was in the theaters. It was really before the whole streaming revolution. But, you know, I find that streaming, you know, this is, uh, and this is part of the reason why I think my company, Pop Ox, was my production company, uh, you know, we're a little, let's say, we're a little, you know, riding the crest of the wave where we have the streaming in mind. And what I think for an independent film is, you know, everybody wants their film in the movies, you know, every independent filmmaker, you know, if I could shoot on film and put it in the movies, you know, oh, and that's what we want to do. The reality is, you know, blockbusters are going to the movies. The theatrical releases are getting smaller and smaller. It's very expensive to put them out. You need huge marketing budgets to put them out. Independent films, you know, you're struggling to get enough money to shoot your film, let alone do any marketing for your film. So, you know, you're, you have to gear it towards, you know, a smaller release and, uh, streaming level-to-plane field for independent films, you know, competing, you know, I mean, you never get, I'm never going to be with Hobbs and Shaw, or I mean, at the independent level, man, maybe we'll make a movie. Yeah, you never know. It'll be rock. That'd be awesome. I can dream. Come this far, right? Yeah, rock. I'm going to you. Anyway, um, but, but, you know, we can release Badland, you know, the same week digitally as Hobbs and Shaw, or the Avengers, or, you know, even hostels is a big western that came out last year, the year before, a fantastic western. And, you know, and then you look on iTunes, or Amazon Prime, or Netflix, you know, depending on when they're all released. And there they are. It's, you know, Hobbs and Shaw, Badlands, you know, hostels, you know, all the, you know, the, the, the key, all the little, the, you know, the, what you can click on, it's all, it's all right there in a row. I mean, you know, before streaming, you wouldn't go to the multiplex and see, you know, I don't know, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and, you know, Empire Strikes Back, and Badland, and, you know, you didn't see that, you know, and it was impossible. But now, you know, they all wind up going through, you, once you have your big theatrical, they all wind up going through the same system. You go on the premium streaming to the streaming services like, like Netflix and Amazon free with Prime, then you go to like a 2B free with ads, or you go to HBO, you do all, you know, you do that whole thing. It's the same. Once it's out of the theater, it's the same process for everybody. Maybe you get red box, you know, so you can still rent the DVDs. They all get a DVD or a Blu-ray release, ours is, you know, you can buy Badland on Blu-ray or DVD, at Walmart or Target, Best Buy. It went through all that stuff. It just didn't have the big theatrical release because there's not enough marketing to put on it. So, I think the streaming age for independent filmmakers level the playing field. So, if you, if you, if you follow your dream and you, and you work hard, and you get like-minded people, and you make a quality product with quality talent, like you have to have names that are recognizable. That's one of the, one of the things independent filmmakers, if I can give any advice out there, if you're making your passion project, find a way to carve out a little extra money and get it, get a name in your movie. Doesn't have to be the lead if you're writing it around yourself, like I often do. You know, obviously, I'm in my own movies. It should be a good enough part, you know, that will attract a name actor, and because otherwise a distributor probably won't put it out, you know, statistically, people don't really watch movies that don't have a name. I don't like the formula, but you have, it's that's the business side of it. But anyway, if you put a name and you, and you make a good movie, you can be released next to, I don't know why I keep saying Hobbs and Shaw, it's just a movie that's stuck in my book. You know, you can get released next to Hobbs and Shaw, or, you know, or Logan, or, you know, any of these, you know, movies that are- Do you think- Yeah, no, I agree, and I understand. So, like Netflix already disrupted a lot of like the movie, but now it's, now it's enabling another level of disruption because you don't have that cultural attitude that you go see the blockbusters in the theaters, because now we legally, well, not even legally, besides the fact that they're closed, we legally can't even leave our homes or we're gonna get fined, right? So, you know, I'm curious what your thoughts are on, and this is obviously very hypothetical, as most people are trying to figure out what the world is gonna look like on the other side of coronavirus, but how do you think coronavirus is going to impact the movie industry? You know, I have been thinking about this a lot, you know, I might get, you know, I don't know, I think, you know, I was trying to look at, you know, my glass is half full kind of guy, I was trying to look on the bright side, especially in this business. So, obviously this is the worst thing that's happened to us since 9-11, I mean, or even, you know, there's other terrible things, I mean, this is awful, we're losing lives, you know, I'll take this opportunity to say, stay home, stay home, everybody stay home, you know, people go to war and die for this country, people go to war and die for their own country, this is a world thing, this is World War 3 basically, but it's one enemy and it's silent and it's deadly, and you can't see it come in, you know, the only defense is to stay home, I mean, for the majority that we're working on, you know, vaccines and stuff, but if all that's being asked of us as a human race is to stay home to beat this thing, I mean, come on, it can't be easier than that. I know it's tough, you want to see your friends, you want to whatever, but you know what, you'll see them in two months and just stay home, please. But with that being said, it's a horrible thing, but if you can look on the brighter side, I think the movie business has been changing, you know, much like I've seen as an actor, I've seen, you know, we went from, you know, I black and white headshots to colored headshots, to digital headshots, to no more headshots, and just a, you know, just a thumbnail, you click on it, you know, like, you know, we've seen all that stuff from, you know, being paid, you know, $80,000 over a year to be in a commercial to, you know, because it ran on network television to being paid, you know, $8,000 being on a commercial that was played 7,000 times because it was on, you know, all the cable channels and everything, you know, you know, all of the different, we're always seeing as a business or as a community that the filmmaking business, you know, from actors to producers, big budget films to any films, is we're always behind the technological curve, we're always behind it and trying to catch up, that applies to the screen actors guild and all the guilds that make the rules and then the formats change and, you know, you know, so how do you, how do you stay ahead of it? And I think, you know, Netflix changed the world for us, for indie filmmakers, I think it improved it for us, at least our ability to be seen, the digital age of digital cameras and moving away from film change to game for indie filmmakers, it makes it a lot less expensive. I can edit the movie myself on the same laptop I'm talking to you right now, you know, and from a bad plan was, was done. I did all actually all the extras on the DVDs. I did on the computer that we're talking to each other right now. I did them myself. I had a brilliant editor on his crazy, uh, did Michael Tang edited the film on his crazy setup, but the DVDs extras work on a laptop. You know, it doesn't get more simple than that, so long winded, but everything is shifting. And either you're going to stay ahead of that shift or, or you're, or you're going to play catch up. And I think, you know, the movie business, the theatrical business, uh, it's really shifting, right? Smaller movies aren't getting seen theatrically. There's more of these, what we call them, small day and date releases, which is like what, what we do. It comes out like 15 cities, very limited, very small, maybe 15, 20 theaters tops. And on the same day, it's released on premium video on demand. So if you say, you know, like on spectrum or dish or whatever, in theaters now, you can watch this movie at home. And it's in theaters, but it's not in a theater within a hundred miles of you, but it's in theaters, you know, and a lot of things are shifting that way. And really only like blockbusters are getting made because that's what's attracting the audience. That's what's worth the money. But at some point, it's so shit. And I think that the coronavirus as awful as it is was the wake-up call for the big studios to change tactics, to really, and again, this is outside looking at my opinion. It was the wake-up call, like just the other day, uh, I bought where I rented trolls World 2. I have two daughters, a three and a half year old and a two. And they love the trolls. And, you know, I remember seeing the preview. Yeah, they were all excited. We were going to see trolls when it comes out and then this happened. And then they just released it. It's a movie that's supposed to be out in theaters. And for 1999, I think actually when I rented on Prime was 1899, we get it for 48 hours. And I can watch it in my home. Is it the cinematic experience? No. But we got to watch it and they're not losing their shirt. So, you know, and because you can't, you know, release dates and things, you can't just push it out to nowhere that, you know, they have projections and they have things that, you know, it's a business. They have all of all these things. So, I think this was the wake-up call to change the way that they approach releasing a film. I'm sure they've been working on it. So, you know, it's not an archaic system, but I think this forced everybody's hand to change. I mean, Disney released Frozen 2 on Disney Plus before it even really came out on Blu-ray or anything. And we already own Disney Plus. So for $6 a month, oh, no, what came out of Blu-ray because we rented it one time. But for $6 a month, I'm getting frozen, which I would have bought if Disney Plus wasn't out. If I didn't have Disney Plus, I would have bought it. I mean, I own an incredible Disney library that I almost wish I didn't spend all that money on because now we get to watch them all streaming. But they released it because people were home. They did it, you know, people were, it was going to drive business towards their streaming, you know, towards Disney. So they released it way early than they normally would have. People are shifting gears to accommodate, to adapt. Where does it go from here? I don't know. I think it's going to take time for people to feel comfortable to go back to the theaters. And I think that by the time it catches back up to normal, or whatever the new normal is, the impact is going to be so large that this really forced the hands of the big companies, the theatrical release companies, to change the way that they're approached to it. And I think, I think it's going to save them in the long run because they're taking this time now instead of just sitting on their butts and losing all the money, they're shifting gears and how do we get ahead of this and plan for the future. And so I think, unfortunately, you know, the lemonade side of the coronavirus for the film industry is that maybe it'll save it. You know, it's the fire that was lit under their butt to change the way that they do business to adapt to the future, to the changing landscape of the digital age. But also, it opens up the doors for independent talent because now, like you mentioned, I love the analogy where like, you know, Hobbes and Shalwell, use that analogy again. You have all the titles side by side. So that's something that's unprecedented. So now it's going to force the whole industry to modernize and to better serve customers, where the customers want to consume their content, which is very important. And that's what other, that's how other industries are being forced to modernize. It may not always be content, but it's about convenience, right? That's that's number one. But it's also, I love that it's like, it's just, it's removing that, you know, that multi-million dollar, uh, you know, requirement to put stuff out, which all, which to be quite honest, makes everything better because the second you just open up more competition, now you have not to say that the stuff that people make isn't already incredible in terms of blockbuster movies, but still you have that extra, we still have to make it that much better because this is what we're being held accountable to and imagine if the respect, uh, an independent producer can, can garner if they produce content that is perceived by the audience to be the same quality as a hundred million dollar blockbuster movie. That's, that's a big deal. Right. I agree. I, I can say like, you can ban land, for instance. I'll tell you how much it costs, but it's fine. That's fine. I mean, it's expensive if, if you were writing a check, yeah, if I was writing a check, you know, if, if, if, if Donald Trump was writing a check, not expensive movie, but we're writing, you know, expensive by, you know, anyway. Yeah, yeah. For films go, not expensive. Uh, but who knows that? Nobody knows that. And you know, I mean, I'm saying it to you, but when you watch it on, you know, the mystique is when you watch it on Netflix, it's a movie. You're not saying, oh, well, it's good for a little independent movie, which is really what, you know, so many people that are friends that make movies and, you know, their, their benchmark is it's good for that budget. And I don't ever strive for that. And, and there's another bit of advice for any indie filmmaker, anybody. Don't make it good for your budget. Just make a good movie period. It's not never strive for good for the budget. And I hear it all the time. Well, we gave it our best shot. You know, it's great for the budget. I don't, I don't, I don't believe in that. I think, you know, you, you, you make the best movie for the budget you, you have, you don't make it good for the budget. You take the budget you have. And you make a great movie, whatever, whatever you have to do, you know, but when you, you get to Netflix, it has to Netflix comes with a certain amount of saying every movie on Netflix is, you know, five star movie, obviously. And it's all subjective, right? Some people love bad lengths and people ain't bad. Some people, you know, love Star Wars. Some people hate Star Wars. You know, obviously Star Wars, you know, as a big influence on me as a big Star Wars picture behind me. But, you know, but, you know, so it's, you know, subjective, but you can't take away the quality of the movie. You know, if it's the quality movie, you might not like the subject matter or the actors or you might not like a performance or whatever. You know, somebody wins an Oscar, you're like, why? They were terrible, but they won an Oscar. So somebody thought they were great, you know, like it's all subjective. But just, you know, just so you put it on Netflix and there's a, you know, there's a quality level production quality, whatever. And once it's on there, nobody knows the difference. They, they, I don't even know people are thinking, oh, I didn't even see it in the movies, you know, so it must not be good because it wasn't in the movies. I don't know what people think, but I know, I mean, for instance, again, I'm not really, you know, I kind of an overnight success at this point, but like two months ago, it was out on Red Box. And it's just a funny story. I happened to go visit my wife. She works in Santa Clarita. And I wanted to visit her. I was done early for the day. And I wanted to surprise her. And I stopped at a rouse, which is our grocery store in Los Angeles. And I bought flowers. And Pam and I was just released on Red Box a couple days ago. So I stopped to see, is it in this Red Box? You know, and I have flowers on my hand. And there are two Red Boxes next to each other. And there's a guy next to me looking at me, you know, looking, looking at me. And I was like, oh, and, and I think, you know, I get sometimes, you know, people say, oh, you know, you look like Bradley Cooper or, you know, if I, at the time, it will reenaz out. Oh, you look like Hugh Jackman. I have that, you know, I get that, especially in L.A. So people do double takes them like, oh, you think something Bradley Cooper for a second. Anyway, so I leave. And he follows me into the parking lot. And he taps me on the show and says, can I ask you something? And I say, and he goes, you look like a guy that I just watched in a movie. And I, I said, I said, oh, really? And I said, what? I said, was it a western? He was like, yeah, bad land. And I'm like, oh, that's funny. That's me. And he was like, oh, my God. He was like, can I take a picture? Oh, it's my son's birthday. Will you do a bit like you did this whole thing? Like it was this amazing. And the guy happened to be returning bad land. And I was standing next to him. You know, that's like L.A. story. It only happens in L.A. But to him, I was a movie star. Not the guy that produced his own movie that happened to get it on Netflix or in Red Box. Didn't it mean to him? It didn't matter. He got a DVD from Red Box or Blu-ray, whatever it was. And he put it in his, you know, his DVD player at home. The movie came on and on a movie star. You know, so that's how people perceive it, you know, that your movie is out. And you know, so again, Netflix, all the digital streaming, it's leveled the playing field for, you know, guys like me and, you know, and Dwayne the Rock Johnson, obviously he's already, I love him. I think he's an amazing talent. And what a career and what a story. But, you know, I mean, we're, our movies play next to each other. And it's what a cool thing. It's a very, I can only imagine it's a very, it's an incredible feeling. Like it's like the fruition of like, you know, years of hard work and whatnot. That's like, finally, like, you know, like it's, it's there. It's like you're, you're living through what I can only hope would, you know, be like what you, what you've always wanted to sort of live through and then some. And I guess then, you know, on that point, you know, what's next for you? Like what do you do after this? This was not a plan to success. It's successful. But how do you take that and you want to sort of roll with it? You want to, the next thing you do, you obviously don't want to lose that momentum. So what do you do? Yeah, it's, it's tough. Obviously right now because things are shut down. We're in, we were in pre-production for my company, Pop Box, it's like two awesome partners, Jennifer Ambrose, Sean Nightingale. We all work really hard to keep this, this company afloat, especially in this time. We had a movie called Dave Reckoning on deck. It's an cool, a modern action film in a rural setting in, you know, a small town cop and the bad guys are coming and it's a cool movie action pack. Luckily, we weren't too far into that. That we're losing money right now. We just kind of, I'm going to say we pulled the plug, but we shut it off for a minute. You know, put it on. And that's going in. In the meantime, I acquired an awesome book series, my company. I ran by this guy, Bobby Cole. The first book is called The Dummy Line, and it's about this character, Jake Crosby, takes his nine-year-old daughter, Turkey Hunting. He's an avid, Turkey Hunter. It takes place in Alabama, Mississippi. And these bad guys that are on the run are hiding out in the woods. They come across each other and he's forced to make a game time decision. He has to kill one of them and it changes his life and they're hiding and it's like a survival, hard-thriller action. It's really cool. And then there's two more books that follow. It's a really great selling book, these two series. So really excited about that. But right now, obviously, there's not a lot going on. And again, a blessing in a curse. Here I am, I don't know if I am DB, if people can design me. My star meter, I mean, it fluctuates, obviously. It's been as high as 5,000 in the past, but I think it was like 20 something thousand. And then last week, it was 500, right? So 500, which is, this is like a list. And unfortunately, we're in a climate that people aren't saying, well, oh, you got to snatch this guy up right now and put him in this movie because that's normally what would happen. But it's catch 22 because the climate create the 500. And now there's nothing with the 500. I don't know. Either way, I'm happy that people saw the movie. If I don't make another movie, I achieved something phenomenal for me. And for the team around us, we should all be, you know, take pride in this. But I am working to the level. What would I like to do next? I would love to take up the claws of Wolverine. I know Hugh Jackman hung them up and they're looking for somebody new. Why not get a fresh face? I have the physicality. I'm a comic book fan. You know, that would be my dream, you know, to play, you know, as an actor, I bought edition for almost every single one of those roles. Most recently, I auditioned for cable in Deadpool 2. And, you know, Josh Rollin was that character. And I'm fairly certain he had that role before I even auditioned for it. But I still go on audition. You know, Kevin is the guy that fills those shoes. And, you know, but now maybe I could be the guy that has the offer, you know, and other people will audition as the backup. So, you know, I'm trying to transition into that. We're hoping, you know, Hollywood takes notice. And just, you know, but whatever happens organically, I'm still going to continue to do what I do. Still going to make movies, make my own movies because, you know, no matter what level of success I achieve outside of this, if Hollywood wants to bring me into the fold and, you know, which would be fantastic. Obviously, that was the original dream, the original goal. But there's nothing more satisfying than making your own movie, making your own movie, and putting it out. And I got to tell you nothing more satisfying than you and your friends and your colleagues and people that worked so hard to make a movie that, you know, that did this. And then all of a sudden did this. And we're sharing in this, in this glory. And we did it ourselves, and it happened organically. The people spoke. People watched the movie. America watched the movie. And I thank you for it. And there's, you know, get a much bigger high than that. I mean, I'm so excited to see where the road takes me and everybody involved. But, you know, right now, I'm enjoying this. Good for you. Congratulations, man. Seriously, congratulations is very, very, very impressive. And let's see what happens. Let's see where this goes. And I want to, I want to, you know, I feel like you're a great interview. We could probably chat for a bit. But I want to, I want to wrap up this one. And, you know, maybe, maybe when this is all over the coronavirus, we do like a sit down in the future. I don't know. We'll figure it out. But, what I, I want to two things I like to ask, just to like bring us up insight from like your life, what would be one lesson that you would tell your younger self that would help you get to where you are today a little bit quicker? Start making movies. You know, like I've only been doing this part of it. Again, you know, if you tell me to talk to my younger self, yeah, yeah, do everything you can to start making movies. And, you know, somebody that told me probably 10 years ago when YouTube was just starting to, you know, you should be making your own content, making your own content. That's where it's all going. And I'm like, yeah, how do you do that? I mean, come on. You know, I'm an actor, you know, I, you know, and I don't think I ever really ever talked like I just did myself sound like I was talking on that side of the kind of guy. Anyway, but I, yeah, I would, I would come back and be like, hey, talk to everybody you know, get, you know, get 10 bucks from everybody and make a movie. Anything that takes make a movie because you can do it. You can do it. And, you know, I'm the kind of guy, you know, like I said, once I'm I was a competitive natural bodybuilder. I have been working out, like I said, you know, my whole life. Since I was 14, my mother this same year, my mother bought me a weight bench and a basic guitar. And I, you know, I did both of them. I wanted to be getty-leaf from Russia and I wanted to be Sylvester Stallone. So, you know, my two heroes. And, you know, and I worked so hard to achieve that for myself personally. And I never thought of it to do it for gain elsewhere. And then one day somebody said, hey, man, you should be, you should be competing bodybuilding, you know, this, this natural circuit. And you, I don't know why you work out as hard as you do. I'm like, I don't know, just what I do. I don't, you know, so I wound up competing in my first competition. I won the whole thing and I went professional. And, you know, so I, I was in that circuit for a little while. And it was because of all the hard work I did prior to it. It wasn't I decided to get in a bodybuilding worked hard and won the competition. I had worked hard obviously training for bodybuilding my whole life up until that point. And, and then somebody opened my eyes to something else. And I was like, oh, wow, yeah, I guess I could do that. And, and, you know, so the same thing. I've been working so hard for, you know, 20-some-on-years in this acting world and everything I've been doing. And if I was guided into working hard to make my own thing, if bodybuilding is very personal, there's no team, it's you. And, you know, and filmmaking is, it's a team effort, but somebody has to make the decision to make the films. Well, you know, that's what we did. And if I could, if I could jump, I mean, so if it's been four years with this company and all of a sudden we're up here, you know, if you go back 10 years, you know, so if we would be six years past all that, right? So who knows where we'd be? You know, we'd be six years in the future if I'm doing my math, right? That's a little scene. We should make a movie about that. Now, you know, like everything you're saying, and I appreciate, there's people that listen to this that would obviously be interested in terms of like, in terms of like film creation, but there's people that are just not, not involved in film and acting. But I think the takeaway is like, you just, you, you, you sort of, this has kind of been like the theme that's like salt and pepper the whole thing. It's like you, you realize limitations that were imposed on you by others and you just really just took it by your, you know, and you make your own movie, you do your own thing, and this is where it gets you. So just that's, that's my takeaway at least. That's what I'm sort of pulling out of that. Yeah, I agree. And that's it. I mean, take, take it into your own hands, you know, that if I give advice, I'm not going to ask that question, but I'll take it in the next one. If it's not just advice to me, if it's advice to anybody, I like to tell people, you know, there's no expiration date on a dream. And I've been, I've been in LA for 15 plus years. I've been in the acting world for 20 plus years. And I've never stopped, you know, and it wasn't till I, you know, took matters into my own hands to make my dreams come true. But, um, you know, I've seen people come and go, people come out for pilot season, they're out here for six months, nothing happens. They give up, they go home, they do whatever they're going to do. You know, people give it five years, people give it 10 years. And I'm not saying you can't shift, you know, whatever, but I've never stopped doing this, you know, and now I'm living proof that, uh, sorry, something just popped up on the screen. Oh, no worries. No worries, man. Uh, I'm living proof that there is no expiration that 20 plus years I've been working at this. And, you know, no expiration date on a goal on a dream. You just keep plugging along. You just keep doing what you do. Don't take no for an answer. And when, you know, if you have the opportunity, take it in your own hands and do it yourself. I love it. Um, and the last question I wanted to ask before we, before we close this off, uh, where do you go to improve yourself? Like, is it a mentor? Is it a book, a podcast, an audible? Like, what's your thing to sort of grow as an individual? Ah, my wife and kids. Yeah. I mean, I mean, you know, they just inspire me, you know, every day of those faces and never knew, you know, the level of love and deep connection and respect. It's my safe place. You know, I'm out there taking chances every day. And I, as I take chances on their behalf that might have a detrimental effect on them. And yet, you know, I take time away from the family and I go out and I make a movie and I take time and I might not get paid. I might not get what it, who knows? It might not be food on the table. And yet, no matter how long I work, how long I'm away, how aggravated I am when I come home because I'm, you know, I've been falling off a horse for 15 hours or, you know, this, uh, you know, these sales weren't good. Whatever the, whatever this crazy business brings, I come home and they're there smiles on their faces and, and hugs and kisses. And my wife is my rock. She's my biggest supporter. I mean, if this grows and, and becomes something, you know, which we're hoping it will, you know, she was a huge component in supporting me through the thick in the thin and keeping me going. So if I didn't have that support system, you know, I, I would be lost. Uh, I don't know if that's not a cliche answer, but I, I'll, I'll allow my name. I don't, I don't care about cliche or not. I care about, I care about honest. And I think that's a good answer. It's a very good answer. Um, how do people, how do people, you know, get in touch with you, watch your movie, check out, you know, more of what you're putting out there. If they want to, is there, you know, websites, what, what are those shows? Are you on Instagram at kebimakeley.com. My Facebook is, you know, I'm bad at social media. I'm, you know, trying to take it ahead of the Facebook. I think I'm going to turn my Facebook page into a, what they call a fan page because it's filling up. I think you don't have it so many people. So I'm about to change it over. But at kebimakeley at Instagram, uh, is, is where to find me on Instagram. And, uh, you could watch badly on Netflix. Obviously, if you don't have Netflix, you can rent it on prime or voodoo or, uh, that. But also check out any bullet will do is our first Western. I love it. I think it's great. Uh, you can see it on voodoo free with ads to be, uh, if you have prime, you can watch it for free. And then another movie, big legend. If you're, if you're a fan of Bigfoot or creature features, that's a fun one. Uh, and you can see it in all the same places. I'm hoping now that we can shift those over to Netflix since the company has had some success. Uh, but check those out. And then also I'm working with Scott Labdell. Uh, he wrote a lot of the X-Men comics in, in the 90s. And he works, he pens, uh, the red hood and some DC stuff right now. He also wrote the movie Happy Death Day. Great friend of mine. We're working on a badland comic prequel stories of the vice-wing preacher, uh, you know, to keep us busy in this time. Uh, it's an online comic. It's going to be free. So, uh, check out Scott Labdell on Instagram or at KevMakely on Instagram. And we'll keep you posted on when that, I mean, it's coming soon. We're, we're, we need deep in it. So we might take some of our other properties like Big Legend and do comic versions of them as well. Just to have people, you know, something to look at during this time. So, yeah, build the community. That's smart. That's very smart. Now it's the time to do it. Everyone's, everyone's sitting at home. So, what else? Um, anything, okay, that's all I got. Is there anything that you wanted to touch on that we didn't, uh, that we didn't discuss? I think it was a good shot. I think I have my mouth is dry. I know. I was going to say, you're not drinking any water, man. You gotta, you gotta get in like, uh, you gotta get your interview cadence down. My cup is way over there. That's amateur, buddy. That's amateur. Anyway, all right. That's all I got. I'm learning. That's, uh, that's gone man. This is, this has been great. I, I don't, you know, like said, stay home, stay safe, stay healthy and, uh, watch Bandland and everyone. Thank you. I can't thank you enough for watching and supporting, uh, hit me up on Instagram. I do my best to get back to everybody. I don't have that many followers, but tell your friends. Everybody start following me. I'm trying to, I'm trying to get into this social media thing and I just love it. I love interacting with people. Like, it's like, I think one time I posted on, I, it was, I had this picture in the back here and it was made the fourth from Big Star Wars fan and it was a picture of me and my good friend Todd who happens to be in Bandland. Uh, he was also the assistant director and a co-producer and I'm holding my daughter and we're in front of the picture and it was made the fourth be with you. We put it up and Mark Hamill, you know, liked it and I flipped out, you know, Mark Hamill saw and he was like, you know, and, you know, and it can recreate those feelings people. If you're out there and you like the movie and you like me, whatever, hit me up on Facebook and I will get back to you and let's interact. It's, you know, I'm, I'm a fan before I and anything else and if I can, if I can bring that veil down for anybody, you know, and, and, and, bring you into that world a little bit and, and, and bring you some joy or anything, you know, please have at it. You know, I'm here. I'm here for everybody and, and I love it and I love you. I love everyone. It's just so cool, man. It's really, and you're, you're, you're, you're riding a high right now. I can tell it's a good thing. It's a good thing. Keep it up. I love the energy and this is a matter of success. I've been at it too long to get jaded, man. So, you know, good. All right. That's all I got. That's all I got, buddy. Um, thank you. I appreciate it. Now, thank you, man. Uh, this is great. This is, this is, this is, you're, you're cool. Let's do this again. That's all for today. Thanks again for joining me on another episode of the success story podcast. You can download or stream this podcast wherever podcasts are available, including iTunes, Spotify, Google, Stitcher, I Heart Radio and many others. You can also watch this podcast on YouTube. If you haven't already, please subscribe and share this podcast with your friends, family, coworkers, and peers. Please leave us a rating on iTunes. It takes about 30 seconds as it allows other people to find our podcasts and let's our amazing guests reach even more people with their message. And remember, any rating is fine as long as it contains five stars. I'm Scott Clary from the success story podcast signing off.