Jim Jordan, Celebrity Photographer | Capturing Jenner, Hadid, Di Caprio & Others

Welcome to the success story podcast, I'm your host, Scott Clary. On this podcast, I have candid interviews with execs, celebrities, politicians, and other notable figures, all who have achieved success through both wins and losses, to learn more about their life, their ideas, and their insights. I sit down with leaders and mentors and unpack their story to help pass those lessons on to others through both experiences and tactical strategy for business professionals, entrepreneurs, and everyone in between, without further ado, another episode of the success story podcast. Before we start today's episode, a quick note from our sponsor, Enthrown, a fully comprehensive equity management platform. This is what they do. Business owners, are you looking to raise capital and unlock shareholder liquidity? Before hiring expensive consultants or brokers, you need to know about Enthrown. Private businesses use Enthrown to unlock liquidity without bloating costs. With Enthrown's equity management suite, you'll be able to create liquidity, engage with shareholders, and control your company's destiny, all in one secure platform. Get your free guide to liquidity, go to enthrown.com slash liquidity. That's enthrown.com slash liquidity. Thanks again for joining me. I'm sitting down with Jim Jordan, who is an American director, fashion and commercial photographer, entrepreneur, talent scout, and manager, as well as producer, initially working as a hair and makeup artist and modeling talent scout. Jordan's self-taught style of photography gained the attention of the owner of fashion retailer Jay Crew, which led him to becoming the world renowned fashion and commercial photographer and director. Jordan's photography has been featured on the covers of magazines such as Vogue, Vanity Fair, L, and Mary Claire, as well as many others. Jordan has photographed and worked with celebrities such as Leo Narada Caprio, Neil Acunis, Drew Barrymore, Jessica Alba, and Chris Jenner to name a few. As an entrepreneur, Jordan is the owner of three businesses, Jim Jordan Photography, which handles Jordan's fashion and commercial photography, White Cross Productions, a production group of direct films, produced ad campaigns and commercial reclients, such as Mercedes-Benz, American Express, and Warner Brothers to name a few, and White Cross management, a talent management agency that has represented numerous celebrities and models, most notably Jeremy Meeks, Taylor Hill, and Gigi Hadid, as well as actors, musicians, and creatives and other branches of entertainment. Thank you so much for sitting down. Very, very excited to be sitting down with somebody who has worked with some of the who's who of Hollywood of entertainment. I want to understand a little bit more about your story, how you became to the person you are today, how you built out your businesses, how you built out your career. But just thank you very much for sitting down. I share with you my journey, how I started, what inspired me, what inspired me today, and where I'm going, where I've been, and where I'm still going to go. So, I'm happy to share with you. Yeah, thank you, I appreciate it. And I really am curious, how did you get started in, let's say, get started in photography to put it as simple as possible? What was your career path, your ambition to get you started on this path? When I was a kid, I was in school in the eighth grade, and I had a friend, a beautiful friend as a girl, and she went to Beverly Hills shopping with her mom on the age, came back to school on Monday, and said, this man scatted me on him, John Casablanque, he's the owner of the biggest modeling agency in the world, and he thinks I'm going to be a big, super model, and he wants to fly me to Paris, and I'm meeting school. My mom's taking me out and moving to Paris, and I was like, she left school a week later, I was devastated, like she was one of my homies' best friends, and I was like, whoa, some man came up to you, changed your life, took you out to school, flew you to Paris to make you, and I was thinking to myself, I never met even a model, I never knew there was a man that even existed that did that stuff. So I was like, I want to get to Europe and get to Paris, that sounds so cool, so I ran out and bought a little business card with my name on it, my mom's phone over on the back. And that year I started hitchhiking and skateboarding to all the schools where I was from, I grew up in the West Valley, Calabassas, and I would go to like six, seven high schools a week, and I'd go in there with their nutrition or lunch break, and I'd find girls and guys that I thought could be models, I'd take little card, and I'd give them a card and say, could you have your mom and dad call me, I think you can be a model, and they'd be like, who are you? So I had a ponytail, I had a skateboard, I had just a little grom kid, and a lot of the girls would have their moms call me, so I would say, I would like it to come to my house, and my next door neighbor, I'd die in his next great-classmen, he's a creative crossfit, lived next door to me, and he was the only person I knew at that time that had a camera. And so I begged him to take pictures of these kids I was finding in these schools, and he was like, you're finding models, thinking this is going to be good for him. So he would, these girls would come with their mothers to his house, and stand over me and him, and I would do the girls makeup and hair, and I'd tell him how to take the pictures, like, turn him like this, be like this, and I would do directly girls, and I'd be like, great, take the picture, crop it like this, and after like the fourth and fifth model, I brought to him, he was so sick of doing it, he was like, dude, I'm done doing this, I can't do this for you anymore. And so I'd hit you one role of them, a black and white contact sheet, and I'd break at the mom to take me down to Hollywood to the modeling agency, and I was working with Ford models, and he'd lead, and I'd clock these girls in, and every girl I brought in, they were assigned a contract to, and they were like, how are you finding these girls? Like, who are you? You're so young, like, why are you doing this? And I'd be like, I like like doing a girl's makeup and hair, and taking a picture of her, and her letting her see how I see her, and a lot of the girls were like, they were all like five, ten, no makeup, they were picked on, they were bullied, they thought they were like, the ugliest people in the world, and what I saw, or how I saw my gift was to see how someone looks, how her camera would see them, and it's a long process, but I started finding these amazing girls, and every girl I'd bring in, they started getting signed. So my friend, Reg, was like, I'm not doing this anymore for you, you're on, you're on, I'm giving you the camera, you're taking it, I'm done, and I'm like, bro, I don't even know how to hold this thing, I don't know how to use it, I was like begging, I'm not going to leave me, I was like, crying, like, bro, you're my best friend. He's like, Jay, I'm sick of it, like, done, you need to learn how to do this, come here, and grab me around the neck, he's like, this is how you open it, you put the film in, you drag it over here, you click it, and wind it, engage it, and put it on the pee, you don't have to do shit, and I'm like, I don't want to hold, like, I'm scared, I want to drop it, he's like, here's my tripod, put it on the tripod, and he had me the tripod with the camera, he does, you don't even know the, you don't even need to hold the up thing, just keep it on the tripod, we can man on program, and so I left, and I knew he was serious, he's walking out of my life for helping me out, and so I was like, kind of thinking, I don't need to wait for him, so I went crazy and finding all these models and brought them to my house, and I was shooting him, and I was doing the makeup and hair, making mistakes, and my learning from mistakes, and I wasn't technical at all, but I was taking really cool pictures, because of the way I would style these girls and make them feel company, able to really communicate to people, and so that's kind of how my journey started was photographing people, so I went to the model agencies with like the fifth girl that I had signed with elite, and they're like, you're really good, who's doing the makeup and hair and taking this picture, and I'm like, I'm doing everything, they're like, you should get an agent to represent you doing hair and makeup for the magazines and celebrities, I'm like, I don't even, that's the last thing I'd ever thought I would ever be, they're like, I don't know hairdressers, I've never even been in a hair salon, and that's the last thing I would ever really want to do with a hair and makeup guy, like I'd be laughed at, like my friends would kill, like I'd be a joke, my parents would kill me, and so I thought of this, they're like, their agencies are not salons, they represent the biggest hair and makeup people on the world, like when Madonna or a movie rock star or a movie star wants her makeup and hair for a talk show, or they call these special agencies, and they're like, you should go in there and show them these pictures you're taking, and maybe you should go to Milan and Paris and go try to work over there and build your portfolio with magazines and work with photographers and learn photography. So I always had that in the back of my mind, like, whoa, so a whole other life story, a lot of tragic stuff happened to me when I was a kid, and when I was 15, and I was two weeks before I was 16, I ran away from home, and I moved to Italy, and I lived in the park and I ran away basically to save my life. That's not a, that's tough. I ran away and I lived in the park in Italy, and I always thought like all these models I was finding were being set over to Milan and Paris. So I thought I was going to go run away and go to the fashion capital of the world and work for magazines and photographers doing makeup and hair and learn techniques of photography by working for photographers. So I found my way around in Italy, and I went into the bottle of agencies, and I met one of the owners of the agency named Luigi at Fashion Agency there, and he says, what are you here for? And I said, I'm from California, and then scouting models, and here's some pictures I've been taking. I really do like I'm doing the hair and makeup and an agency in Elite and LA told me I should come to Milan and try to work with photographers and magazines and put a portfolio together. So I'm coming in here, like, just taking a chance to meet you. I had my skateboard with me, and he was like, here, like, so young, and like, this is amazing. And he said, you come in at 10 o'clock in the morning, it's not like meetings for you to go meet your colleagues. So in magazines, so I would go there at 10 o'clock in the morning, there were no cell phones back then, texting, I'd go into the meeting, 10 in the morning, and I'd say, hi, how are you? I'd come here, come here. And you'd get on the phone and start calling magazines, and I launched my short, went to this magazine called Grazie and Milan, and the hair and makeup person didn't show up that morning in the studio that was upstairs. I was interviewing, showing him my picture, he goes, hey, can you work right now because we have a hair and makeup guy that didn't show up, and they're running late, and the whole team is upstairs bleeding. And I'm like, I don't have anything with me because we have everything here. So that day, I ended up doing a cover of Grazie and magazine, and a 10 page fashion story inside. And that's kind of the day my career started working with the photographers in magazine. And I lived in Milan for three years in Paris, and I started working with photographers in the bizar and vogue, and I kind of like this whole door opened in my life. And the magazines that were all in a building called Montedori, that was vogue in the building, Harper's bizar, Grazie. It was like a condaing-nass, where all the magazines are in one building. And I started being there, working in the studios, and all the editors from all the magazine would be walking by our studio. And they'd come up and be like, hey, we've never seen it, where are you from? I was going from California, I really got 16 and they're like, oh my God, you can make up the hair like oh my and everybody started talking and it was a really small world there at Montessori and the other magazine started booking me, I started putting the book together, portfolio and all my covers were coming out and I was learning photography and watching and afraid to ask questions when I was 19 I came back to America and I went back to that hair make-up agency in Hollywood and they were like I showed in my portfolio and they were like we can't believe you've done this and they're like we want to represent you a week later I was working with Elizabeth Taylor and each day I was working with Bert Stern and Helmut Newton and I ended up back in LA going back in LA in New York and I started working with Elizabeth Taylor for everything and Whitney Houston and Farrah Foster and wouldn't just jet bridges and Kurt Russell and I started working with Kurt Ritz and my being on set with these legend photographers and I was never like trying to steal that how they lit I was just so into how they communicated the softings and I started just being a sponge on the wall standing in the background hanging out with the talent doing makeup and they aren't just kind of watching and observing everything and years of doing that I did hair make-up for 15 years and I worked for the biggest photographer's and so many supermodels and legends and I'd be working for like looming days doing hair make-up on a beach with Cindy Crawford like when she was starting and we get a lunch break and I'd say Cindy let's run down the beach and go swimming and I'd have my bat my little camera and my backpack and I would never tell the photographers I'd brought my camera on set because they freak out because back then it was very competitive I could never mention my two pictures and so I ran down the beach with Cindy with our box lunches and we went just far enough so the team our photo team couldn't see us and we go swimming in the ocean bring our towels and then she'd be coming out of the water and like can I take some pictures of you she's like you have a camera and I get my camera out of my backpack flip her head upside down like go off like give me like give me shit you don't give anybody and she would just play on the beach run I'd run her down the beach chasing her taking the pictures run back to me at running but like just capturing images and having fun at work and like those were the kind of jobs where I felt like wow like I'm not just doing the makeup I have a capturing these moments and I'd be able to put those pictures I did mostly shop black and white and there were like 36 frames on one roll of film and I would get like an 11 my 14 two or three from that roll of film and I'd stick them in this black box and for years and years I'd be on shoots and I would take pictures and sneak in I'd work with like Farrah Fawcett and walk her out to her car at the end of the day I did it for the cover of live magazine and I did her makeup and we bonded that day while Hemptor carry her bags to the car and I would be like so nervous to ask her she's getting in the car that saying why I was like um she might as I take a couple pictures of you she'd be again like what do you mean like what you have a camera I've been like hold on I get my backpack get the camera put her up against the parking lot wall to wear a hair stand like this be like this bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye shooting my stasits I can't look and over my shoulder to see if anybody's been watching and I would get a print put them in the black box and so for years I started putting all these a lens by 14s in this black box and it wasn't like I was taking pictures because I really thought I could ever be a photographer I first of all always had these voices in my head saying you're not technical enough you don't really even know how to work a camera you don't know how to use a light meter you don't know how to plug into our pack but what I did know is how you have talked to people you get people to do anything I would ask them to do and it was a way that I communicated to people to really get them to trust me and that they would do anything because I would do anything for them and what I kind of would model to them about my vulnerability and who I was and what I wanted to share and give them it was like a mirror like they were giving that back to me and I would capture those moments and the looks in their eyes and I had this box for years and years and I was always like after years of doing I was so frustrated at on my shoots or doing hair and makeup for so many photographers I worked with I'm like how did they get these jobs they don't know how to communicate like it's horrible working for them and the talents miserable this is like it feels like work it shouldn't feel like it and so I was just so frustrated for years and I you know I have housed cars and I have great living and I had amazing clients that love me and I never thought that could I ever leave my career and say goodbye to all these celebrities and great people that love me and work with me and hire me all the time and all the loving amazing photographers that I was think the voice in my house I you can never try to jump in their way who you think you are that you could go and let the world find out you're quitting doing makeup and hair and become a photographer your parents don't have money you don't technical and it was all these spots and voices in my head that kept me for years afraid to show anyone my picture and so I used to work with Jay Kruel all the time in the owner is to take me on these trips am I renting too much no this is great because everything that I was gonna ask is stuff that you're already bringing out so keep you know keep going this this is the story that I wanted to understand like there's so many points like the persevere like first of all the risk and just like the I don't know the ability to go overseas when you were like 15 16 who does that nobody can do that everyone I don't think a single person I know that would have the courage like you know just like the balls to go to that that's been very impressive so I guess a lot of stuff happened to me when I was a kid at those times a really challenging time of what made me run away and I was on the streets and I was very street smart and I long I'll tell you my story later that's a whole other chapter I the book coming out about this story and this tragic thing that happened to me but I was forced to kind of live on the streets to hear in America and do crazy things so I was fearless so me getting out of plant at 15 by the one changing my identity ID and stealing my brother's identity getting a passport and a different name and getting a one-way ticket living in a park and finding my way there was very familiar to me on how I was living my life like because I have four of a home a child's life and nothing was worse it was better being on the street with strangers that it was feeling where I was so close to feel safe and so I took this journey so I was you know shooting these pictures back go going forward which taking all these pictures and challenge miserable at work working with all these people that I did respect and but I was so afraid to even tell you when I knew how to take pictures so the owner of J. Crew used to book me I worked for them for seven years on all their photo shoots and they take me on all their trips and I do the makeup and hair on all the models I've been Barbados, Harbor Island or Hawaii or Arizona we went everywhere and the client she's always hired these famous photographers from France apparently spoke any English she hired this Japanese photographer or white clubs and she was very soft spoken so on all the shoots the models were like this is so warm so the client with J. Crew the owner would always say J.J. get on set and direct these people like we want you to direct so stand next to the photographer do do the makeup and hair but direct these models and all the models were my friends they were like I worked with them for years I would skinny deck at night I'd get everyone like pissing and pulled hands and like go off and I would be on set she was like your energy's amazing on set like just tell the models what to do so after a few shoots the models would come up family and go Emily why don't you have him shoot why do you have him just direct he's an amazing photographer that she's like what are you talking about I've been working with Jim for 67 years he cuts my hair I bend at my house he knows my family and he's never mentioned ever one study takes pictures what are you talking about he takes pictures and and this guy Anthony Cran this famous model kid he's one of my best friends he's like he's an amazing photographer and he's so humble and shy to ever tell anybody that he takes pictures because he doesn't want to overstep his boundaries and he doesn't take pictures for anybody and for people to know how she's like you're kidding so she goes no talk then so Emily calls maybe come on we're back in New York she calls me she's like I want to talk to you and she says all the models tell me you've been taking pictures and why have you ever told me and I'm like I just take pictures like to document my life and I don't take pictures for other people and I'm not taking pictures for people to see it's from my journey my life and people I get to spend time with them that I can capture the moments in my life and she was well I want to see your portfolio and I'm like I don't have a portfolio and I go and truthfully I don't want to show anybody because I don't want to be compared to or could teach or judged it was like my biggest fear really for anyone to look at my images and either I wasn't I didn't want to show anyone my pictures and I go I don't want to show you my my pictures truthfully this for me it's fist my journal and she was like uh if you don't show me your pictures I'm never going to work with you again and I'm like are you kidding me she's no that's how serious I am that I want to see your pictures and I'm like I don't have a portfolio it's in California it's a black box and it's got like pictures in it and it's all I have and it's not in any kind of way it's just pictures that I collect so she goes well I'm coming you're gonna come back to New York in a couple of weeks I want to see that and so she was serious like she wasn't gonna hide her meaning more and that was one of my biggest clients then so I came back to New York and we were in touch and she was I want you to remember to bring you pictures so I go to New York and smoke a bunch of I smoke a joy the morning I'm so nervous I get on my skateboard I got my backpack on skateboard at the 29th Street to the corporate office on Avenue with the star Americans and I go up there I'm so so nervous and I go in and they escort me into the conference room and there's like seven archer actors that I had known for years that have been on all our trips and Emily was saying she was JJ's here jealous his photos and they're like what do you do it that is so stressful and I was like oh I was cringing so they I slam my book down on the table and Emily comes stands up and I'm back up and I'm standing there and I back up from the table and I turned my back and she opens my book and I can't look at any of them and they're all getting out of the chairs to come around look so I walk away like 10 feet and I turn my back to them because it was I just didn't want to see I didn't want to I just the voices in my head were like you're not good you're not talented enough you're the technical I was just like I don't want to see their faces so I walk the way and she was flipping through these pictures and she's like oh my god I get here and I had these pictures in the first like 10 pictures in the bookers like when I lived in Italy in the park I've been made friends with all the rugby players and I was in the park every day and all the guys the Italian guys that played rugby in the rain and they were next beginning English and I was always there and they were like hey like really nice to me so I would like get them together and take portraits of them and it was like I had all these pictures of pouring rain and they were all money their shirts were off and I had all their mallets and all these Italian best friend hugging each out there and like and I had all these pictures of this rugby team guys Italian guys in the rain and she was like and they were black and white she's like jade these are and then she would turn the pictures of Cindy Crawford and Whitney Houston Jeff Bridges and Kurt and they were like how do you know these people this is insane and I never told my clients who my clients so I've got to work and it was all about chain crew I never was like oh I just got off playing with Nick Cage doing him or working with Jeff Bridges or whoever I was with I never told people what my life was is my life I wanted it to be all about them and that's one of my gifts as a photographer is to really talk about people and let them feel that they're the most important thing when people start asking questions about me I'm like it might not seem that way right now because but that's really how you live my life I've always wanted to throw it back on them and so she like they couldn't believe my pictures and she looked at me she says we cannot believe you've been hiding this is crazy amazing and she flipped back to the rugby pictures and she goes we want you to do this for us and I'm like what she was I want you to hire any male models you want to get a group of rugby models from newer and I want to take you out to a real cricket field in Connecticut and I'm going to turn you loose and let you pick whatever clothes you want to pick whatever models you want to shoot and I want to turn you loose on that cricket field and reenact issue and I'm like Emily like that I don't I don't that's a lot of pressure like I don't so I was like okay what I can choose and we'll pay for it like we really want to see what you can do so I go to Connecticut they pick me up I cast like six guys I go out there and I shoot in Connecticut and they get to film back and a week later they call me up and they're like we're going to Hawaii for 14 days and we want you to come and do air makeup but we're going to hire you as a second unit photographer meaning we're hiring a photographer named Victoria Sims and she's from New York I work with you for many years and we're going to have you do the air makeup will be second unit target meeting you could do whatever you want she's going to get all the important shots and all the clothes that we have to shoot but you can be free and do anything put guys and bikinis like do anything to be creative however you want so we got to Hawaii and I'm like this is it and they brought all of them it's just my little camera it didn't even have a motor drop my camera I just click one click one and click one and all the models that were there were my friends that I knew forever and they were over there on the set with boring Veronica and I'd be on the beach like get naked like get on the ground like kiss her to lay on throw her on your back and run down the beach with her under she and I was like oh this is my moment and everyone on the other set was like we want to be over there like the suns so I was like wrangling all these models getting into all the shit and one Emily hired me for Hawaii she says we want you to be the second unit of the card of her and we're going to pay you $250 for every picture we end up using if we use any so I so I'm like no when she goes I will pay you your hair and makeup so I go there and every day I was shooting like 300 rolls of film and at the end of the day the producer would come over with a baggy and all my film would be in the baggy and she would just take it from me and they fed it to New York that night from Hawaii and every day I would shoot I had like 300 rolls of film 250 rolls of film each day I would shoot it she'd come at the end of that they put it in FedEx and FedEx to go out in New York so I come back 10 days 15 14 days later back to New York I don't know what happened to the film I'm uneasy that they get to see it because they're shit in that film that I was doing where I wasn't thinking they're gonna see it it's like naked people running around like all that doing all this crazy stuff so two a few weeks later they call me from corporate and I used to get in a lot of trouble on shoots because I was like a hell raise and I was always you know the security in the hotel and come up and like you all naked in the pool you were gonna have you arrested like get get out of here so I was doing all this crazy shit being a kid and I get a call from corporate Jay Kru and they're like hey we need to see you in the corporate office and I was like oh I'm in trouble I try to do it like I did shit and so I get on my skate I go up to the corporate office and they're like they escort me into the room into the big conference room and I walk in and all the editors are in only seven hard directors are in there and Emily and as I walk in the room all the pictures from Veronica Sims were on the wall it was like 500 pictures on the wall and I walk up and I'm like and they were all the models I didn't take any of them I'm looking for my pictures I don't see one and I'm like oh my god that picture's amazing look and I'm like look at that shot's awesome look how beautiful and I'm looking for my pictures there's no pictures and I'm kind of like and I'm trying to compliment all the photos and I like think my heart's like singing like I don't see any not one in my pictures and I'm being so nice like this is so beautiful look at them and Emily's like yeah but you haven't seen yours yet and I'm like what do you mean there's not a lot of pictures right here and she goes turn around and when I walk through the door all my pictures were on the wall behind me and I turn around and the whole wall was covered of all my picture and I was trying to count them because she told me at that 250 an image and the whole corporate wall was full of my images and layouts and I was like I was trying to count and I hit my head and I went last count and I'm like and I stood there like I'm starting bawling and I stood there and I was like tears pouring out my face and she came over to me and she like gives me the biggest hug and she's like it's time and I'm like what do you mean and she's hugging me and she's like it's time that you lay down your hair and make up Russians and I'm like what do you mean and she says it's time that you get an agent in New York you you were so talented and we love love love your energy and your pictures and I was like I can never do that and she's like Jay look at your pictures look how beautiful look at all we're using like a 700 of your images but you didn't have an assistant you didn't have anything this was all you and I was like she does it's time for you to get an agent here in New York to lay down your brushes and I was like I can't I can't and so I was trying to talk myself out of it like I'll lose all my clients I'll go broke I'll lose my house I'll lose my cars I'll lose all my friends and all myself at the time was I thought I'll lose all of them and so she's like you need to get an agent we're going to make meetings for you and agents in New York you need an all my Jay crew stuff and the rugby stuff started coming out and so after the wise step I got billboards and all this stuff and I started putting in the black box and she says there's like five agents you should go meet in New York so I do gradually just did it to appease her and I went in an agency called Art and Commerce in New York and they represented Steven myself with all these two photographers and I was questioning myself I do not video I'm they're gonna laugh at me these guys I have are legends so I went there and then I wow you're really you know you have some really beautiful pictures but we have a similar photographer with a similar style and what we'd like to keep an eye on you and see where you end up in six months but you like to stay in touch with us good luck you but it's a path but thanks so I leave and I go to my next meeting and I skateboard up and I go up five stairs floors and there's this blonde woman sitting there and I go hi how are you I have a meeting she's like what's your name I'm like Jim Jordan I have a three o'clock meeting with Bonnie Winston just I'm Bonnie choose are you a photographer and I'm like no I'm a hair designer she goes well why are you here I represent photographers and I go well I've been taking pictures and I work with this lady named Emily the owner of Jake crew who asked me to come and see you guys and show you my photos and so she goes to give her portfolio and I don't know but I have a black I have this black box it has prints me so she opens the box and it's like literally a handheld 11 point 11 by 14 prints not in plastic just like really fragile prints and she starts looking through the she's like oh my god you you took this is insane how old are you like where did you meet these people and I'm like I do hair and makeup and I met all these celebrities and supermodels at work and I worked for Helmut Newton and all these brave photographers and at the opportunity to work be with these people and I took pictures on this side she's a clone on it she goes can I keep this here and I'm like no let's call it I can't leave it she was holding on to get some of them she goes die that that that that she's like hey Renee this is Bonnie Winston in New York and I'm about the hot to sign a photographer she goes that I'm so sure you're gonna love I will never ever call you to see if the photographer as long as I live that's how sure I am that you're gonna love this guy and she hangs up the phone and she goes well half his booked their FedEx tomorrow morning in 10 a.m she hangs up she was did you hear me and I'm like you can't keep this and I go what's FedEx and she goes FedEx is a courier source because it's right when FedEx was coming out in years ago and I go she goes FedEx is a courier survey it takes has insurance and it'll be in Chicago they'll leave New York tonight at 10 and be in Chicago like 10 tomorrow morning and I go I'm leaving in California tomorrow she goes but we'll have a FedEx fact to you in California I'm like I can't leave this I go this is 20 years my life my journey my road map to everything I experience in my life I can't give it to you chose Jay will you trust me I put everything on I had a back to you Jay this is the biggest advertising agency the overnet that's the biggest and I trust me you you just heard me stick my neck out for you so I'm like oh my god I'm like okay but please I can you can't so I fly back that way two days later my FedEx book comes back that way and she calls me Jay he's sitting down and I'm like yeah and she goes I just booked two on a 14 day job for blooming dance and they're gonna pay you 70 five hundred dollars a day and I was like no way I go no way body I can't do it and she's like what the fuck are you talking about and I'm like I can't do it I go Bonnie I'm scared to death I can't do it I'm not a photographer I'm just I'm just like guessing what I'm doing I'm just like weighing shit I don't know how to use a power pack or a light meter or color meter I don't know how to plug I don't know how to do push or pull film I'm so untechnical she goes Jay you get your ass back to New York with your skateboard I will have the best photo assistance on your team doing everything for you but the owner of the lab standing next to you every single day I'm gonna book your motor home your carers your locations your hair your makeup your styling all you got to do is hold the epic camera up to your face look through that little hole and whatever you see that's pretty push your finger that's all you do choose you are not saying no to this and I'm like I'm scared and the voices in my head were like who do you think you are and everyone's gonna find out you're chewing and you're gonna lose all your celebrity clients all your makeup clients and all your livelihood and your bank account everything and I'm like I can't do it so I smoke a lot of weed I can't do it being a kid like trying to bury my fear and like build my compliment so 10 eight days later nine years nine days later I get on a plane and fly back to New York and I sleep there and the next morning I was going to post office was my first location on 5,000 and I go skateboarding up I smoked out a morning skateboard up and there were like three motor homes in a team like 50 people in the crew all me and her and around in the around the motor homes and stuff and I stopped like a block away and I'm like this is real this is such a big production I'm tripping so I skateboard up and I get on my skateboard I'm walking up and there's this beautiful blonde lady sitting on the curved smoke and cigarette and she's like this hippie Moroccan blonde chick and I come walking up to her and she says hi and I'm like hey she goes are you with the production and I'm like what's up what clarinases and she's like for blooming day and she goes are you on the team are you here for this shoot and I'm like yeah they think so she's up what's your name and I'm like joy and she's like oh my god you're JJ and she gets up and she goes I'm Renee I'm the one that hired you and she gets up give me a hug and I put her bag up and she says do you want to cigarette sit with me so she sit on the crib and I'm like no it's okay I don't smoke so she doesn't sit with me talk to me where are you from and I want to get to know you and she starts talking to me she says what do you went to like what do you do and what do you do for fun and I'm like I skate and I surf and I'm from California and I do hair makeup and that's what I've been doing for many years just they take pictures and this is like really my first choose I know this is like the first big job you've been doing chick crew and I've seen those pictures are beautiful she says what can I tell you what I hired you and I'm like yeah she goes first of all I work with the Congress but in our director for like 12 years and I work with different photographers every week and I see everybody's book I probably get 10 portfolios a on my desk she goes but when I got your pictures it came in as black box and I started walking opening these prints and she goes and there was something so unique not just the way you presented your pictures but the look in these people's eyes and I'm like what do you mean and she says it was the look in these people's eyes that I wanted to hire the guy that they were looking at because I've never seen in a lot of people's photographers it was like the look was but when I saw the people you photograph it was like they were like looking at somebody and I wanted to know who that person they were looking at that made their eyes look fit and she goes and that's why I hired and I was like come what to say I thank you for taking a chance with me and so that kind of was the icebreaker with this woman Renee and she kind of held my hand with us old journey on that job and I got an agent to New York and I did that job 14 days later I was on a roll and my agent was loved for me and that night she was taking me to dinner with all these editors and all these magazines in New York and the first seven days I was there she took me to dinner with the editor of American Vogue named by Jean Shaw we had a dinner one night after one of my shoots and I even had a super amazing connection with Bonnie and he was like I like you Jay I want to give you start giving you jobs so I started working for American Vogue right away and then Bonnie just started booking me on Eddie Bauer and Lancent and Ella Bean and Claire and she would say she represented Francesco Scavullo when I really picked Cardiverse and she'd always say that you're the easiest photographer I've ever represented and I'm like why I'm not that good I'm not that technical because it's not about being technical Jay it's about connecting with people and communicating love being so available to people it's not just how good or technical you it's how people want to be with you it's about the experience of enjoying life and doing life together and you're so good at that she was I could get people to see your pictures and then send you in to go I can go see a meeting with them and you'll put the job it might be better for photographers that have more work or more prestigious work and you're kind of getting into it but you're you're just really a good communicator you let you see a little deal all the time and so that was it I was on this train and I was always trying to get off the train because I always had the voices in my head like they're gonna find out you don't know about technical or being a photographer and then I just started getting these jobs and every job is so afraid and when it went in over I'd be like oh my god I got through the fire like how do I make it through that and every job I started to do I was super nervous but I would come out through the other end and I started realizing as I look back at my life now is I like my modern ways are the things that I fear most with things I need to run to and so I started making a mission of my life that things that scared me are the things that I needed to run for because on the other side of that fear was the miracle and blessings from God or wherever you believe but I believe like my miracles were from God and that there were other things that were getting in the way of my miracle trying to keep me afraid and keep me back and I think that my photography career after 15 years of doing hair and makeup I was ready to run toward what my I could ever dream after five years but I was in fear for 10 being held back never thinking I deserved it or could be it or I was rich enough cool enough I had supported enough and I just got on this journey and on that train ride and I just started sliding stuff and I started learning more and becoming more confident even though it's still today I don't even consider myself a photographer I never considered myself really a hair and makeup doctor and you wore a badge I can the hairdresser I just wanted to be with people and make them show them how I saw them and I took a camera to be able to document how I saw some of the that I could show them like I do a girls makeup and hair that was like 15 and bullied in school and I thought she was only person in a world that I thought she was beautiful I do her makeup and hair chopper hair and turn her around to look in the mirror and she started falling cry that she couldn't believe that was her and not feeling alone was what drove me to keep going and then I would take pictures of people and then show them how I was in show and then watch him like cry and I'd be like God this is amazing this is more than any money anything I could do and I never did it for money I never got into this to make money I didn't want to become a photographer because I would shoot hot girls or movie stars or being the end of fashion business I did it because I wanted to connect with people and show people how I saw things and I use that little black box to pull the trigger to capture that moment to show them how I saw them and they would trust me enough I love I love the story thank you very much for for giving that over you know a lot of people gloss over a lot of the details of their life but I appreciate that even though you had several points like you mentioned like you were really there's a lot of self-doubt that you sort of pushed through and that's not easy and I think that that's something that a lot of people have problems with and I guess you know how do you my question to you because I have other questions out of that story for sure but how do you deal with that self-doubt like how do you push yourself to make the decision is it is it because you had the right people in your life the right mentors or was it intrinsically like it you know coming from inside internal that even though you could you even though you were saying you couldn't do it you still took that step forward but how how did you sort of keep going well like being in fear that kept me in fear for so many years being something that I really wasn't happy doing when I had a drain like I knew there was new way more to me and I feel like it was a lot of things I feel like a lot of the people that kind of pulled me out of my box were like angels like sent from God you know my way to look back at it now and I believe I was a lot of work that I do that I did and that I'm constantly doing to keep myself present and to be able to recognize those voices that are coming in all the time to recognize whose voice it is and to realize and now recognize the truth and the truth of who I am alive here and then I can do all things the voices that are kind of keep me or make me afraid I realize those voices are it's like an arrow of which way I need to go so something said you can't I'm going and running toward that and I journal every day I started doing a book called the artist way and it's a 12-week workbook that changed my life back then when I started became a photographer I embarked on this 12-week journey called the artist way and I recommend it for every creative the people that have lost their creative gifts until what they are or how do we cover them or discover them I recommend this workbook for everybody I know they changed my life and part of doing that work the third week and the first third week I did that work I became a fascinatory and part of the exercise you do every day you journal three pages full pages every morning and I started journaling these things that came out of me on my journal that I didn't even know when I would reread it I would say to myself who is that writing like it was such a disconnect of how I thought but then when I wrote something out of journal like my heart and I would read this up and fall my eyes out like who is that and I started to journal every day and the third week of me journaling I met Emily gave me that job and the second week I met Renee and got that job the third week I was shooting for both and I just kept journaling and journaling and journaling so people that say they meditate every day they don't stop meditating I believe that my journaling changed my life and every day I was in fear and right about my feet right about my feet and I keep writing about and every day I don't like I'm sick of writing about how scared I am why do I just have to do it and then I want to have to write about it so I did a lot of things to kind of push me out and then I would start saying you know what it's more I'm more afraid that I won't do it in my life than doing it what's more painful not doing it and watching it pass you by or trying it and seeing what being afraid there too and I always realized by me just doing it and sick of writing about it and I'm just afraid of all the excuses I made for myself writing to so I'm a big advocate about running toward fear and running through the fire because you're miracle and you're miracles are there on the outside waiting for you that's powerful and that's how I I've lived my life and and I try to share that with everybody I know now sorry go ahead no I just I feel like I'm still evolving and I want to help people you know when I when I became a photographer it was kind of all about how much how high to climb this ladder and I started getting these things that were miracles to me and there's opportunity in the people that I've been able to be around the implants that I have had and I had a lot of you know life changing experience in my life like really life changing and I started shooting and I've been shooting probably like for 10 years and I was getting everything I ever wanted in my life and I had a ton of access to finances and houses and money and celebrities of who's who and being in the end crowd and and I just started realizing you know what like all this stuff is like empty to me and everything I desired in my life like I would attain it like the world would say oh that's so cool you have the coolest job but somehow I always felt like really sad and empty inside no matter how much I thought how many big jobs and big movie stars I'd get to shoot it was cool and I felt great and I was thankful but that happiness never lasts so I started having like these you know questions and I had like I don't know how to say but I had like a breakthrough like like like a breakthrough or a breakdown or a coming to with the end of myself yeah epiphany epiphany epiphany that this wasn't all about me anymore and I ended up in the hospital and I was like on my death then they didn't know what was wrong with me and they said your kidneys were failing and they basically gave me four hours to live and they called in the you know the pastor to give me my last rights and my whole family was there and I was laying on my deathbed not even being able to move and I had a supernatural miracle happening in the hospital and I was miraculously to you and I sat up with this like miracle that happened and it's a whole long story and my life changed and I came out of the hospital completely healed two days later and I made a big I had a big life changing a moment in my life and I said this isn't about me anymore it's not how rich it's not how famous it's not how many celebrities I could shoot it's not how the trips and jobs and all these things that bring me temporary happiness like my job now is to help other people my job now was to to give the gifts and the talents and the experiences of having to give it to other people and a whole other people's hands and and should help them navigate the jungle and I was like had this you know I started having dreams at night and sounds crazy and I was having dreams at night like literally and I was being spoken to and I was being told to do things and I had wake up out of these dreams and I grabbed my journal and I'd start writing these things in this journey and one of the dreams I was having it was at night it was it was maybe shown that I was out on a battlefield and there were nurses running into the fire to help hurting people the dime soldiers and they were lifting them up carrying them out of harm's way and I heard these specific directions that I was going to have a company and it was going to be called white crops and it was going to be based on the light helping hurting people and then it was going to be a production company and I was going to have a production where I was to help young kids and I was that I was being told that I was perfectly placed exactly where I was meant to be and that my mission field wasn't in Haiti or Africa or all these other places that might get the hurting and the sick and the thaw and we're right here in the entertainment business right where I was positioned and so I started paying attention to it listen like well maybe there's something we are here so I went out and I went back to my roots on finding models because along my journey I would find a model along my journey and just say hey let me take some pictures go meet this agency five good luck and I turn them loose and I'd run into these models like three four years later and they were like I'm not modeling and I'm like who are you at the Paris who are you with the London do you graduate they're like no we just stayed in LA and know whenever a copy agents all alone and I'm like damn you should have had a store and so I went out and I started finding models again and I still put my company Y-Cross Productions I got incorporated I got an LLC done a trademark the name and then Y-Cross management talent management company and I got this company did the logos and opened the website and I went to started had some models that I discovered then I was like I'm not going to just give them away I want to hold their hands and I want to carry them and I'm going to not give them to these agents that are going to just do whatever they want I'm going to hold them and be a foundation for them and they're going to have to talk of me and get through me because I knew a lot about the business and said just push these young kids around so I opened the company I started filling my roster with talent I was in Brandy Colorado and a bar and shooting a job for me since and I walked up in this 14-year-old girl and I said hi what's your name she's looking at me like hi my name is Taylor Hill and I go hey Taylor is your mom here yeah she's out there so I went out and I talked to my mom and it was I your daughter daughter's a star who are you I want to join fashion with her where I have a talent management company and I managed talent young talent long story short I started finding girls and discovering and basically hand holding these kids and taking pictures of them and grooming them and placing them with agents all over the world and this girl Taylor Hill is now the biggest model in the world and I started her when she was 14 years old her and her mom lived with me in my house here and I started grooming putting agents all around the world and I had this formula where I would do that with every model I found and that's how White Cross came about and my management company and started finding talent I discovered Gigi Hadid and I had worked with her mom Ilana for many years which she was modeling and I placed Gigi with agents all over the world I helped Ilana they called her meetings in New York and and I found the hot fountain Jeremy Meeks the prisoner who his mug shot went viral and I went and took him out of jail moved him in my house and rehabilitated them and moved them and placed agents all over the world and did kind of those type of things so my my company as a fashion partner where the talent management all kind of goes inside of each other and so I spent my life you know and everything I'm doing now is to help people and really keep an eye on people and I'm finding new talent every day and I'm keeping my photography and I'm learning still and making mistakes and just trying to keep my mind open and opportunities that keep coming you know how how was um how what were some of the struggles that you found when you transitioned to this new stage in your life where you built out a business started really um aiding in the careers of all these young individuals that obviously didn't have the proper representation were there any things that you that you had to because you spoke of what all the struggles that you had sort of going through your photography able from from hair and makeup to photography and sort of that career path but what about the more recent things that you've that you've understood or that you've had to learn one of the biggest lessons that I had to learn is you know becoming a businessman and learning you know when I first started all I was was creative I didn't care about the money and I didn't care about the the database and keeping business cards and phone numbers where I didn't even know what I was getting paid if I was getting paid or not getting paid I was the biggest reckless I was just out shooting big jobs I didn't know the agents and I found out years later that my agent had been stealing from me and taking a lot of money from me and I just kind of woke up to and I realized at that time when I confronted them that they were producing all my jobs and I realized my agent makes me work on a day that I'm even making as the photographer of their sweating doing it all and so I started realizing how much money they were really making they weren't just my photo and they were producing all my jobs they were hiring motorhomes and the caterers and the studios and prop stylists and all of these things and they would hire a makeup artist the budget would be $1,500 for the makeup hair and she would only give the hair makeup $500 so she's making $1,000 in her pocket off of my job and that went down with the motorhome looking for give the motorhome driver $500 and she'd make a thousand a day on one so she'd make 500 so every day I go to work I started realizing she was making my 20,000 a day and I'd go to work and be making half of it and then not to mention she wasn't paying me stealing from me so I had a life take this big bold to stand even though I never was a business guy and I confronted her and I said look here parties over if you want to work with me I'm going to produce all my own jobs and I'm going to do my own building and I'll give you my 20% and at that time clients started calling me and they're like hey we call your agency and your agency now is telling us you're not available that you're booked there's one of my big clients for Brooks Brothers and so I'm like when did you want to book me and I'd find out that I was available so she wasn't giving me those jobs because she'd give it to another photographer where she could produce those jobs so I started learning business like wow this is not yeah and how unfortunately how shitty some people are which is not yeah and so I ended up really stepping in and opening my company by my productions and I had a business manager that's consulting holding my hand because I was opening another business cosmetic company and she started saying to me and I said I let my agent she said why did you do that that was stupid this is what's funding your cosmetic company and I'm like I don't care whether I have nothing that be stolen for a library please choose well why didn't you take the money open your company and start hiring two new assistants and teaching how to be agents so I hired two full-time administrative assistants I taught them how to use my database I taught them I gave them the client list and I said to each one of that I want you to make 50 introduction calls every single day on the phone here are the our directors here's our phone numbers here's our address so each one at a task every day to call leave a message or send a mailing from a promotional piece with a stamp and a load of every day they put them in the mail-on within three months I was booked every day and they were producing their own jobs I taught them all how to be producers so they booked a client and they hired the model with the location permits and I started thinking to myself this is insane how much more money I was making as a production company I had control over my whole shoot now everybody on set was like something that I saw it wasn't because she was ripping everyone off and everyone was unhappy even the client when I get the work they are requested me I didn't even know them so I started getting a grip of life really had to have a vision not just for what I saw but the experience I was having that set and then my production company became in full swing it was really a real production company so to answer your question like the challenge was like how to really step in and own but becoming a businessman and taking my creative hat off and putting it aside and really step in and take responsibility for a big businessman can I can I ask you something too because you touched on a point that I thought was interesting why is there why are the people that are charged with like this agent that was working with you why why is that individual there's not a higher level of I don't know scrutiny or due diligence or just care in working with these young people's careers because I feel like that should like I feel like that shouldn't be an issue with somebody who's charged working with with people that could be very earlier on in their career and they don't have the experience it on the proper representation so why is that still an issue why is that not more brought front and center and and why is she like not at a business that's I guess why is she still around yeah they are she she is out of business now and it was I don't know I think people are afraid very powerful in New York people of lower your husbands and it was just kind of big book and I couldn't really preach that but I knew and that happens all the time agent steel all the time for model agency steel model agency book our client will say hey we have $5,000 for the model again they'll call the model and say you got $2,500 they don't have to so model agency can get the model $2,500 the model says yeah I'll do it so as soon as she says I'll do it for $2,500 they don't need to tell her that they're really making $5,000 the model stows so the agency's like oh great and then they'll take the 20% out of her $2,500 like it happens it's like business yeah it shouldn't be though that's really shitty business yeah so a lot of things I learned and how to wake up really quickly to do you know I didn't realize that you know I've never been part of the the whole I guess talent and creative side of business but I've heard more of these stories and it's unfortunate it is still still around yeah a lot of that's so I decided I don't want an agent anymore it's like I don't need an agent my agents you know charging me 20% of everything I make that 20% that I make I could afford my own employees or have anybody to help me do that and it will pay what it's way worth so it's like getting over the fear of being a businessman and opening a company being a boss I never thought I'd be a boss to people I hate it I don't like being a boss I don't like having a man is that side of my brain I want to be out and be free of nothing like my camera and be like woo and just be like this kid that's life seeing life for the first time that's why I wanted to now I could be a businessman too and where both ask yeah that's true it's true well that's what that's that's sort of like that running towards the fear point you made before yeah now what so you built out the production you built out the management photography where do you all all successful I think it's just impressive like to the to the degree because now you're at the upper echelons like the names that you've brought into your even your talent management is upper echelons of of of the arts of creative so what's where do you go from here as like what's your career path going forward so here's what I'm doing now is I shoot a lot of people and I I'm inspired to take pictures all the time and I I have a lot of great contacts and things that I generate just by going out at night shaking people's hands at introducing myself I want to be the first one to say hi to people and I want to know what their story is are and I want to be truly authentic and real about that so I have all these amazing people in my life and I'm like why am I taking pictures so econ came in and all the advertising companies lowered their budgets and all the models are making half the money they used to make and all the stuff of the economy and that things that econ everything when econ there are no catalogs and magazines are getting thinner thinner but all of them are going out of business nobody wants to pay to target or is it important and so I said why am I giving doing all these photoshoots from magazines they don't pay any money why don't I just open my own net and so I just opened a company magazine called James magazine and I don't know if you've seen him but it's a new magazine and I'm featuring like Gigi Hadid on the cover and Caper Hill and Chris Jenner and Zendaya and I have I have like eight issues out now so it's like a little project that I'm doing and it's really rewarding because I can put all my creative energy into my own vision all the way around the logos the love shape and bring the counter that I want to just to shoot and just put them on the covers of my net not saying I don't shoot for other people still but I just I feel that's really rewarding and I want to build this platform with the magazine to one day make it a really amazing magazine great the advertising senate and Rolex and relic make major owner and get some really amazing advertising and kind of build slowly this brand and see what happens with that I'm also very interested in creating a brand a clothing company out of my white cross brand called white cross collections and I will you know very I love them whole military 1940's 1950's turn of the century type of clothing and nurses and soldiers and dog tags and my whole really military vibe so I'm very interested in indulging on these type of projects and companies I said I've been out for years and years branding other people's brand of the higher me and say hey we have a new pair of shoes how can you shoot them and make the whole world want to buy and I've been really good and successfully doing that or saying hey we have this new makeup how do we sell it or how do you photograph it so it's a very high catch but now it's time now it's time for you to do it for yourself stories on how I want to not just give that away anymore I want to kind of teach you to give that to my to my own time I don't get I'm also have a book coming out that I'm in the process of writing a book with the New York Times bestseller it's about my life the journey and my life it's like a coming of age story about a young kid that pushes through all the obstacles in his life of how the world had wanted him to be and who the world kind of teaches young kids who they should be and a story that I'm writing about my life as a young creator and that was very people that didn't know what to do with it and I didn't really know what it was but I knew I had a gift and I was unlike anybody else when everybody was house was out playing football and sports and doing stuff I was climbing trees with a chainsaw, manicure and cheat trees or cut angry dogs here in the neighborhood or like just beautifying everything I saw and so I that was my that's what I love doing and I still love it and I get lost in like making things that beautiful that's cutting your hair or styling you or getting you to get real and funny and talk stories about parts and what it means to instance and not be surface and just like life's going by and we're all just fucking fake again we're all just in pain and no one's getting real and authentic with each other and that's what I love to do is connect to people that I can be so real and transparent and like let the walls down and be free and see life like little kids that are untouched and effed up by the world how do you how do how does someone how does someone do that though how does someone see life through the lens that you see it when they're struggling with with finances and day-to-day and stuff it's very difficult for people I'm curious if you have tips it's hard I have I have I've lived I start to love a question but I know I'm sorry but I just feel the passion that's why I'm asking I do a lot of things and I believe a lot of things and I I'm very spirit I believe I'll tell you what we can do it we can do a follow-up when we'll do like an in-person sit down after the book and whatnot that'll be good but I give it away and I trust God and I keep giving the more I get the more I get and the more if I'm running out of resources or finance the more I I try to get my eyes off my pain my hurt my my pity and me and I try to go help somebody else amidst my my hurting like I always say to people like God I'm hurting and I don't want to take cookies and go give them to someone like go clean help someone and I don't learn and I've done a lot of things where I like kept everything and like me and my pity party and my love and I have had hard times that I've had really hard time and broken times and scary times in my life my life didn't always look like this and sometimes in the midst of how good your life does look and the mist like of everything I do have like there's so many times where I feel like nothing because it's not about the material things in our life it's about the things that are like when we're all alone and we're sitting there like what is the quality of our life who do we get to share it with who do we get to talk with just to be let and know how we really are that it's not just always looking good and like I kind of have it all together and like yeah like what's up mean while I'm dying and sucking so there are a lot of things in my life now that I do like I pray a lot and I write and I look up but keep my eyes up I don't keep my eyes on the problems of attacking I get in my journal everyone writing my journal I write the things that I'm in pain about and the things that I'm scared about and the things that I love and the things that I'm so thankful it's a good answer it's a very good answer so don't do yeah and it's the way it works for me and I've been to Kabbalah I used to go to sweat lodges every from home and I've been to every a friend of the Dalai Lama I've been in every religion culture and I explore everything looking for God and looking for my answer looking for peace and I ran to the ends of the earth I go to India every year and sit in Auschwitz and pray meditating I go to Tibet and I go everywhere I go to Megapé for 13 years and I went to the Kabbalah Center and I do everything looking for the truth and looking for my God and that's a follow-up to this was where I was miraculously healed and where my answer came from when I I could have denied what happened to me in the hospital was the truth of what I had always been looking very powerful a lot of people very powerful that's where I'm at and I I try to embrace that every day and a lot of days still I'm human and a lot of days I'm inferior and a lot of days I'm in power and a lot of days I'm in the state I'm like not believing anything that there's a God or anyone's for me and then those days where I'm like oh yeah I got to check in oh yeah oh yeah this is real okay I got my eye up my eyes wrapped again not on myself for my problems very good very good answer you're awesome no it's uh listen it's my pleasure um I never I never really know where these interviews will go because it's always about the person I'm speaking to but when when you open up so authentically like there's a lot of things that you brought up like the story and just like some of even like some of the very tactical things that I hope people that are listening can take those away and and apply them to their own life forget religion even for a second just some of the the mental tricks and the and the fortitude and the perseverance that it takes the ability to go towards your problems the ability to be a good communicator to be human to be authentic to be passionate these are all incredible things and then on top of that the ability to to be to have faith and confidence in yourself and find faith and drive to overcome those times when it's a little bit darker and and stressful like those are all things that people need need right now more I think more than any time that I've been alive people need those types of tangible takeaways and the people that they listen to and the people that they they you know they you know they get their content they you know it could be could be religion it could be a person it could be it could be even like a past time but I think people need positive so the more the I really I really appreciate that as you walk through your story you go through all the times where it wasn't so good and you didn't even go really deeply into the dark times but you could tell there was some stuff that was a struggle for sure so I I like how you walk through that a lot and that's I just want to say thank you for for the story and I do have a few like you know quick like I guess rapid fire questions I'd like to do at the end um but I just want to say thank you for going through that it was really really nice of you and is there is there anything else that you wanted to add on just that where you were in the human were humans and there's gonna be those days and it's not gonna happen for you for always going to you know there's days where I'm super afraid still and I'm insecure it's from very sure and I have a vision and I always say to myself like what you see is what you'd be I have a little thing on my desk that I look at every single day and it says vision plus action equals manifestation and that's what I live my life with and it's about my vision and it's about what I see it's about what I dream of a what I can see very good and I encourage you guys whoever's listening to it really dream and see try to have vision it's like being a boat out in the ocean that doesn't have a lighthouse and there's no land inside and the life and the waves are gonna take us everywhere and they're gonna throw us two and throw like if you have your eyes on the light and the prize of where you're going you can get and that's how I believe and that's how I do my life so cute man you're you're you're you're you're fast forwarding because I was gonna ask you one of my rapid fire questions is is one lesson that you would tell your younger self and you've told me like you've told me a whole bunch of them so I guess I'm still gonna ask what would what would be that one lesson that you would tell your younger self that would help you you said to run don't be afraid of the fire to run to run toward the things you fear most very good that's the things I've learned most of my life and every time I ran ran through it it was almost like there was someone somebody on the other side with their arms open grabbing me and putting the prize around me I'm very good sorry like I want that race yeah no I wanted to I wanted to ask you one more just another quick question where do you go where where's the resource that you go to learn it could be a podcast it could be an audible it could be a person it could be a book something that you would recommend people go check out besides the besides the work you recommended before the creative I recommend a few things I recommend the number one thing I recommend is a called the artist and it's a 12 week workbook and it's life changing I don't even everybody I need everybody I come in contact with I think it's the most life changing experience and work and it's called the artist wave I do the camera that's one one thing I I think you should just continue to I want a lot of YouTube I just things I'm interested in I love watching YouTube documentaries and other people's story I love the human struggles and challenges I just love music and watching films just getting lost in that so many visions and stories I'm gonna tell as a filmmaker still has a director and making documentaries and really heartfelt films that just rip your heart out and make it feel like it's so emotional like the world teaches us not to feel and to numb out and that was supposed to be a certain way have it all together you guys anything and it's so beautiful to watch people just feel again hug on each other and not feel like like everything I it's like when I think I know it all I lose everything if I feel like I don't know it all then there's room for the miracles to come in my life and that's a lesson that I've learned in my life it's like I've got to bake it myself from my opinions sometimes and then the University of God can teach you and keep it spanning me I live my life so many years I knew the answer to everything I didn't care about anyone's opinion that's before I had my transformation of life but when I had that miracle having me I think I was like I don't know anything I don't have your hands but I still know I just know how to get my answer and sometimes I don't sometimes I mount that seed float around and emotional and crazy and moody and asshole and I'm just not on some days I'm just like I feel that great and thankful that you would even want to hear what I have to say yeah well I think that I think that it's pretty obvious when you when you start uncovering the stories of people like yourself like people that have done incredible things in their lives and that's what the whole purpose of this podcast is right it's to unpack that story because if somebody looks at you today they see what you are today they see a very small point in time which is which is the culmination of so many things that have happened over your life and I want to unpack that so people can understand that progress because the more people can understand that the path to success or whatever success is perceived to be is not linear it's not simple it's not easy it's not fun it's it's in certain scenarios right like there's so many nuances there's so much to it and that's really what I think you know that that's what you did an incredible job of telling over and that's really what I want to accomplish here so thank you I appreciate that appreciate that I appreciate you yeah last thing is very important where do people go to connect with you find your work new book where's that going to be what what are all those outlets social websites I have an Instagram I have two Instagram what is called Jim Jordan to be at Jim Jordan to be I have another from my management company it's at White Cross management I have another Instagram for scouting if people want to be models or if they could be models that's called at White Cross model scout and then I have my website Jim Jordan to probably be calm and my book I hope to be coming out probably in six months we don't have many yet but I'll keep you posted and there's a lot of you know I'm sponsored by a lot of different companies that have a lot of things on site so if you go to Google you can see some different companies I work for but I have some amazing sponsors that believe in me and they're very generous and kind of help me tell my story through my art and other commercials and things that I direct but this is the beginning baby we're we're going you know that's all for today thanks again for joining me on another episode of the success story podcast you can download or stream this podcast wherever podcasts are available including iTunes Spotify Google Stitcher iHeartRadio and many others you can also watch this podcast on youtube if you haven't already please subscribe and share this podcast with your friends family co-workers and peers please leave us a rating on iTunes it takes about 30 seconds as it allows other people to find our podcast and let's our amazing guests reach even more people with their message and remember any rating is fine as long as it contains five stars i'm Scott Clary from the success story podcast signing off