Jason Wojo - Wojo Media CEO ($100M+ in Ad Revenue) | Why Your Business Isn't Growing and What to Do About It

People label themselves as CEO, and they make $50,000 a month, you don't know what you're talking about. A real business? Small businesses between $3 and $7 million. Once you have at least 25 team members, and you have a decent employee hierarchy, that's like a real business. Jason Wojo has built his entire career around one thing, scaling businesses through paid ads. A serial entrepreneur and founder of Wojo Media, he's helped generate millions in revenue and worked with thousands of businesses looking to grow faster. Most coaching offers, people will sell 100 clients, maybe 20% of them actually do anything you tell them to do the other 80% or stock because they're just not built to run a real business. When you don't have experience in selling the thing that you're talking about, it's not good, faith wise. You should feel bad about it. He didn't just follow the traditional path, he figured out how to win in the attention economy. Today, he breaks down how to scale in a crowded world, capture attention, and turn it into real revenue. What's the secret sauce to building an agency? You always have to have good offers, you can't just sell raw, regular shit, you have to sell mechanisms. People care about that, then they care about the results. Second thing is people, when you hire cheap, you get shit. Most agencies, they hire cheap, they're always in the trenches. If your business has QA, it means the people suck. Solve problems fast instead of letting it linger. When we just let shit linger and sit, it just hurts us more, man. All right, Jason, I'm glad you're here. I want to kick this off with a quote from you. You said that most people in the coaching consulting space are selling air. Why do you feel this way and what makes a business real? The coaching consulting space is ran by a bunch of entrepreneurs who are ranging between like 50,000 a month and 500,000 a month, who don't have big teams, who don't know how to grow business, who don't have HR departments, don't have finance, don't have legal, all these things that are preceded to be a big conglomerate business. If you don't have hiring funnels, you don't have leadership, you don't have CEO's, you're still the CEO. It's not a business. People label themselves as the CEO and they make 50,000 a month. I'm like, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, dude. A real business, anything that's doing, I would say like small businesses are broadcast it between three and seven million. I think that once you have at least 25 team members and you have a decent employee hierarchy that that's like a real business. You're consuming enough payroll, you're giving people a path to want to make more money, you're retaining team members because most people can't retain team members for longer than eight to 12 months. The churns are crazy in these online coaching businesses and a lot of these business are built just to make profit. Coaching is air because there's no fulfillment. It's hey, dude, just do this and give me a grand. Like what the hell are we doing? No, we need tactical shit. We need to actually import into the business, have someone actually hold you accountable to do it, not just tell you what to do because if you look at most coaching offers, people will sell 100 clients, maybe 20% of them actually do anything you tell them to do. They're 80% are stuck because they're just not built to run a real business. They're there for the motivational, raw, raw rip wrap. So that's just my biggest thing. I like talking to real business owners who have done stuff like you've been in the tech space. You know what it takes to run a real business. People are selling this air stuff and they're like, I'd run a real business. If you can't sell it, it's not a real business. You can't sell air unless your face is nowhere on it. There's so many things that are just, it's not like a rant about all day, but you get where I'm getting it. Well, I get it. So I'll tell you why I get it because in the podcast space and in like the business thought leader space, it'd be very easy for me to do like a coaching, like coaching consulting off so easy, but I pushed back against that for so long and I still push back against this. So now you don't even know this about me. So my background is in tech. Now I actually have an actual agency, like a content marketing agency, 30 people, like it's a business. It's not that education is bad. It's that there's so many unqualified people that are charging way too much for what they know. And then there's the people who do the whole, I shut my business down because God told me and I'm doing this instead. Is that a thing? Yes, there's a lot of people who do this thing. It's like an angle. It's a marketing angle to repackage their offer. So for example, right, and then there's two things I want to touch on. I don't sell coaching. The only thing that I'm putting out soon is a mastermind with in person events in person and shit, not this zoom crap where I just go on a weekly call and that's it. I want like real human connection, kind of like a podcast, right? Because people that are in the trenches of running a business don't just want like virtual motivation. They need to be held accountable in person. Like we might even start doing like, you know, monthly events where they're, we call them boardroom events. We're like, hey, common person, a new workbook every month, like what things have we improved on? What things we pushing into business like I want more tactical shit. I don't want me to just be like, hey, dude, you run ads. Yeah, just spend more money, get higher, and yeah, you'll be good. Like that's not a shit I could find on YouTube like for free. There's everything needs to be customized. Everybody and most of these coaching offers are group. So it's all generalizations. You might have a different problem. I got a different problem. Probably. And for the longest time, dude, I just ran an agency for eight years. We got 119 team members. We do close to two million a month. I don't want to sell other agency owners how to do my stuff. And I'll tell you why because I don't want them knowing my secrets. And that's just me being honest. Like I would never sell to agency owners how to build an agency. And I've got to ask this question millions of times. Why don't you sell coaching? If you're so good, why don't you sell it? Because I don't want you to know what I know because what I know is too fucking expensive to sell on a coaching offer. Like if I were to sit down in an agency owner and be like, hey, you're going to learn all these things. It's at least half a million. No one's buying it. Well, no, you're selling them a business. Yeah, like it's so expensive to where what even no one's going to buy it. So how did what happened where we got all of these coaches? Like I mean, I don't want to spend all day talking about coaching, but I think especially for people that are listening to this show that are super entrepreneurial, young, they're trying to figure out how to build a business. Or even people that are even a little bit older that like worked in corporate that are now trying to figure out how to, you know, they're not feeling comfortable with their jobs. They're like, hey, I, you know, my job's going to be over in a year. How do I build a business? How do I future proof myself? The internet is so messy and it is so loud. And nobody knows who to pay attention to or who to listen to or who to hire or whatever. How do we get to this point? Was this like I think I have zero issue with Russell Brunson, but I think clickfunnels led to a lot of people being able to sell shit that they're unqualified to sell. Yes. There's two things I love Russell, but the one funnel away fucked up the industry. The one funnel away thing was the worst marketing material ever because now everybody believed because Russell was like, basically we can name him the behemoth of online marketing. And this is probably 10 plus years ago where all the direct response happened. When you go with that perception of one funnel away, people truly believe you, especially when you're marking B2C people B2C slash biz up. It's all the avatars all people bought one funnel away. And then business owners caught on to what a funnel was because Russell was basically saying, Hey, buy for my funnel. Here's a funnel. So it was like the made sets, right? And then people productize their knowledge. And also it's the barrier to entry. The barrier to entry is so low, dude. Like you can use anthropic main is GPT clawed for less than a hundred bucks a month. And now you think you run a business. And that's really what it is, dude. Like you can use AI to make content. You can use AI avatars to make your videos for you. Like there's so many things like we can go on a fricking binge, but like it's just the barrier to entry. If you're working in a corporate job, you make four grand a month. You can actually afford to buy shit from people who sell this biz op stuff. And now you're in the game, $97 for a challenger, $47 bucks for an ebook, like you can join. It's cheaper than dinner. So that's the problem. So if somebody is looking to start something, they're just like they're entrepreneurial. They don't know where to go. Your recommendation is to not sell coaching, not sell, consulting, zero chance. And you know what? You get a lot of the mindset coaches in these like health coaches, because it's regurgitated. That's a whole other different can of worms. You're not like you could coach implementation, but you're saying that you can find that shit on YouTube. You should, what should you do that if you're starting a business and you say you have a skill set? Should you go right into selling implementation? You should go into sales first. You should not go right into being a business owner. Like, oh, like do sales is just so lucrative. If you're looking to make more money than four, five, six grand a month at a job, you get into sales and you can make $10,000, $10,000, $20,000 a month. Yeah, there's no base pay because if you get pays pay, if you get base pay, you're not a good sales person. There's no base pay for being an entrepreneur either. Yeah. So it's like, with sales, you get to learn products, you have to learn how people interact, get to learn human anatomy and psychology and all those things. You can take those things you learn from sales and then you can go start a business when you actually have real knowledge that you know how to sell stuff. Like it's, it's this thing of, I don't want to sell coaching when I have no experience. But sales, I have to learn the skill set first. Like I can't, I mean, I could be a crappy salesperson on a good offer and make money. But then I might move from salesperson to a CSM or salesperson to a leadership role, get equity in the upside of the business and actually play that role where I can make 30, 40, 50,000 dollars a month, right? Like that's, that's a whole different game. I just think that sales is better for people who want to make money online. Like people that are listening that want to build funnels and sell products like what you don't realize is that when you don't have experience selling the thing that you're talking about, it, it, it's not good, faith wise. Like you should feel bad about it. Like it's weird. And that was something where, you know, when I was first starting out, I was like, dude, I'm not selling anything digital until I'm at least like at a hundred grand a month. Because I don't have any business being at 20,000, 10,000. If I don't, I'm a selling shit on, on the internet for cheap low ticket products. I got to build this agency first. I got to find good people. I got to have a good product. Like I have to have a good brand. I got a postal organic, all these things that matter before you can teach somebody to do it. Yeah. I was like, dude, it's crazy. It's crazy to me because entrepreneurship didn't used to be as popular as it is now. It used to actually be like, oh, you, you can't even work for somebody. You're going to, like it was like, look down on, right? Even like 30 years entrepreneurship was not as sexy as it is now. And they're like, the pendulum is swung and now entrepreneurs is so sexy that people focus more on entrepreneurship and being an entrepreneur and the title of just owning something versus just, how do I make more money? So you're saying, fuck being an entrepreneur, go into sales. Go into sales. Like dude, I've sales guys that make 20 grand a month to 50,000 dollars a month. They don't have to deal with the stresses of the fulfillment after the customer sold. They don't have to build any teams. They get to enjoy their lives and have kids and like, you don't have to be an entrepreneur. Like dude, it's crazy to me. It's mostly a status thing for people. I think so too. That's all it is. It's like, hey, I'm an entrepreneur. So when I go dating or when I go out, you're going to respect me like, no, bro. We don't care. Like we can see right through the bullshit. So it's like, it doesn't even matter. It's going to sales, like you could have a happy life. Entrepreneurship is stressful. Your risk tolerance has to be so high. You've got to be willing to take on all the pain. Like you age fucking quicker. Like it's just, it's not worth it as much as people think it is. It's not. What did you get into it? I got into it because my parents were really poor and I just hated not being able to get stuff. Like like new video games or new basketball shoes went to pay less and shit. Like we were broke. We lived in 800 square foot home in New York. We didn't have any money. $80,000 a year household income barely saw my parents. That's just the way we lived. So I was like, dude, I can't get the new video games like my friends are getting them. You know, like why can't I get the new call duty when everybody else gets it? Why can't I get the new cobies when they came out? Like that's started to upset me when I was younger. I was like, why do all my friends have big houses and we live in a trailer? Like why are all these things against me? Like is this just because they're did my dad's cheap? This is just because my mom does make enough money that I started to learn like economics and finances. Oh, okay, my dad makes $5,000 a month. My mom makes 800 bucks by weekly. This is starting to add up why we're broke. Like this is really starting to add up and you know, that's just like that was just self-awareness for me. You know, we had like basketball practice and all the kids would get picked up and they're like in these big GMCs and my mom's in a shitty Dodge caravan from 1998. Like why am I getting picked up in this car and all my friends have GMCs? Like what is going on? So I started to become self-aware to that and then you know, started to pick colleges. My dad was like, yeah, you go to community college and I was like, oh, okay, got it because go to private university. I'm in debt. The books are too expensive. You know, my parents started to help me where they could. They did a great job getting me through community schools like that that was fine. I had to get a tennis scholarship to put me through my second school because I went to a culinary school at first, then I went to business school and the business school was very expensive, but I got a tennis scholarship that paid for it. So that was good. I was like, thank God. Financial aid helped too. And I was living at home. So there was no like room and board that I'd pay for. But yeah, like, and I learned a lot of financial literacy when I was younger too, seeing my dad, the way he managed money, see how way he looked at debt to income, like I learned things just by observing. So it sounds like your parents, like there were smart people, but they played by sort of the old playbooks. And this is, this is what's tough, right? Because we're talking, we're kind of talking shit about entrepreneurship, but then you're also looking at the old playbook that our parents and grandparents subscribe to. They didn't really, isn't working out for a younger generation at all. It was, it was candy not even working out super well for them at the time. And you probably had the foresight to think, hey, listen, if I just do what my parents did, like my life is not going to be where I want it to be. So that creates this stress on like a very young generation of, okay, I can't just follow the same playbook at a steady job, nine to five, that's not paying me, what actually keeps up with cost of living in 2026 and beyond. Entrepreneurship is a whole other can of worms. So people are just generally lost, like I think young people are generally lost and stressed out. And it's the indecision. Yes. It's the indecision that causes them to start doing quick shit for quick money. And this is what causes all the problems that you see with like coaching, consulting, selling shit online, NFT projects. Let's go. The list and people jump on the latest thing because it looks like, you know, it looks like a way to escape. What is what is a escapism or escape, yeah, like escape the matrix, whatever you want to call it, which I don't know where that even came from, but like, you know, it just came from entertain. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yo, he started a whole movement, which made people rebellious. But why do you think, why do you think he became so popular? It's because there was this disenfranchised group of people that felt hopeless because his government and supporting you, you got to take care of yourself, but you don't know what that looks like. So you don't have a role model to follow. So you're like, fuck, I got to find a way to make money. I got to find it. Whatever it is. And then just figuring it out and not having good role models is where people get in trouble. And now the internet's littered with garbage, coaching, consulting, garbage products, way overpriced people's scant like all this shit because again, there's no playbook for how to take control of your own life. Yeah. And that's something that people won't buy. That's true. You go online and you're like, here's out of eight, 10 grand a month. Here's how to take control of your life. No one's buying this because it's fucking air because it's like, oh, what's going to happen? But you're giving me a result. I'll go here. And that's direct response marketing 101, which everyone taught from the get, like we're talking, all goals, be all these guys back in the day, Frank Kern, all of them. They all taught direct response, results, infatuations, storytelling, CTAs. That's all they told. So it's like, they're not going to buy that thing. Even though that's the correct answer, by the way, because if they don't have control, they don't have discipline, they don't have consistency. And now they're lost. And now this result will never happen anyway. So it's like the dangling carrot is what people will buy. Marketers are the worst. And I'm one. Marketers are the absolute worst. They are. What form of direct response is ethical versus non ethical, like when you, when you speak about some of these guys, like where they dangle the result, what makes that offer, like a valid offer that people can actually achieve, if that makes sense. So it's about, like whenever I think about creating offers, I look at what could the average person achieve, okay? So when I built my offers, I never gave guarantees. I give averages because also it's for FTC compliance. You can't just go on and say, oh, you're guarantee 10K 90 days. That's bold. Very bold. But you'll probably get sued. Yes. The other side of the coin is like with my webinar offer, for example, I'm just like, hey, done for your webinar in 14 days. If you don't all line your investment, you don't pay the second payment because it's a split pay. We take on half the risk. You take on half the risk. So your first payment is covering your costs. Yes. Cover my costs until I get you your win, which is doubling your money. So it's 10K now and 10K once you hit $20,000 in sales. And then from there, you have this webinar that you just keep running every single week, with or without us, and you keep making money. That's the way we just install it four months of management. Cool. Have a blast. If you want to stay cool, there's a continuation fee. You can take that. You're not locked into that. You're only going to be locked into that if you hit your ROI, right? So it's like I built offers that gave people realistic outcomes. What you don't want to say is get a done for your webinar and hit 30K in 30 days. That's freaking bold. You got a lot with you. It's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. I don't like to do money in time frames. I stay away from that. Right. So like when I talk about my ad services and all my ads, I'm like, hey, for every dollar we've spent on average, we've gotten $4 back or more 90 plus niche and verticals. People who got in the phone, so like, is that a guarantee? No where did I say guarantee? No where does that say anything of you are guaranteed to put a dollar in your four hours? That is our average across clientele. Right. So people take the expectation and run with it. You got to be careful as things you say. So it's like the internet space is very money in time frame, money in time frame, and it's like trading offers too. Trading offers are very FTC borderline, gray line craziness, um, explain what a trading offer is. Like people who are like, oh, like like like like financial, like day trading, like, hey, like, you know, look at me day trade every morning and make 10 grand a month. Like that's bold. Like you got to watch yourself and the and the part about that people don't realize is why do people get away with it? So great concept. When you can push offers like that, you're not doing enough volume. The FTC is not going to waste their time on somebody making a hundred grand a month. They're not. They go after the people who are making three, four, five, six, seven, eight million a month and obviously above and more. That's who they want to go after because the payouts better that hundred thousand dollar a month guy. Okay. We can go to him and say, hey, dude, refund your past 30 customers. It's not going to hurt in that much. Maybe he'll lose 60 grand 80 grand, right? And then he'll stop. He'll do compliance coaching because I went through FTC lawyers and we have one internally. Like you have to go through all this training and then you pay for it. And it's like a whole process. Not going to cost them that much, but they go after that guy who just sold 30 million bucks in a year. They're going to get a fat eight to 15 million out of his ass and he's got the refund people. And he said go through training. And he can say, and any sudden an on compete for about 10 years, he can't do shit on the internet. Quick question. What's your go to when you got 10 minutes before a meeting or a workout for me, it just used to be whatever I could grab, which usually meant skipping meals entirely or just grabbing something that left me crashing an hour later because it was just full of garbage. That's why I'm partnering with Hule. This black edition ready to drink is a complete meal. So it has 35 grams of protein, six grams of fiber, 35 essential vitamins and minerals. It is no sugar added, gluten free under five bucks. I always keep a few of these in my fridge. And honestly, it's solved the whole back-to-back meetings, go, go, go, non-stop, no time to eat problem. Super well. And this one's new for me. It's Hule's daily greens. I had the blueberry this morning. 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So if your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get our free business guide demystifying AI at NetSuite.com slash Scott Clary. The guide is free to you at NetSuite.com slash Scott Clary, NetSuite.com slash Scott Clary. Who is, who is the worst internet marketer? The worst person that I've seen do claims, it's got to be Kevin David man, Kevin David had a crazy, crazy offer. It was like an Amazon FBA being trouble offer. Yes. He got in a lot of suit for like 40 something million. Yeah. That one happened. Well, I know. Well, there's there's people that have actually gone to jail over like the Amazon, the Amazon store front set. There's a guy out of Utah, I can't remember his name now. I think he went to jail for for promising like setting up Amazon store front with like a guaranteed ROI. It's like a $40,000 investment and he would like not even set it up and just it was like it wasn't like FTC or like FTC like bad marketing. It was just straight fraud. Yeah. And then that can turn when you get, you know, class actions like 100 plus people coming forward, I believe the numbers are, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you need a fat sample group. Then you have a class action philosophy, which is worse. You know, that's like reputation, that's lawyer fees, like there's way more to that. And then once you fill file class action, that's where FTC starts looking around. That's when yeah, that's when you're in real trouble. Yeah. Talk to me about, okay. So you built a wojo media, you've been doing it for how long, eight years? Just eight years, yeah. As of last week, yeah. So you've hit Inc 5,000, 2024, 2025, hopefully 2026. Right now you have $150 million plus your managing. That is incline revenue over the eight years. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Cool. And you worked with over 1,300 businesses. I mentioned over 100% team, you have 590 plus active clients. So you built a very successful media company. So what has differentiated you? Because if somebody's like, okay, fine, I get it. I want to be an entrepreneur. I'm not going to listen to it. I'm not going to go sell and just make my life easy and make some money. They actually want to build something. I know how to content market. I know how to sell. I know how to run ads, whatever. I want to build an agency. An agency, it's interesting. There's so many, you can build so many different kinds of businesses. An agency seems to be a kind of business that if you do it right, you'll always find a way to become successful eventually. Because I see guys that build like agency, sell it, agencies, and they just keep, they can keep doing it. Like I mean, like I mean, like the example of like the biggest agency owner that I know that's not conglomerate like a Neil Patel. I know Eric Sue with single grain and like even Eric for a while, he was talking to me about how he was like able to buy agencies and then like roll them up and then resell them. That's what we do. We just don't public size. But he knows how to, like the point is like you, if you know how to build an agency, it seems to be like something that will always exist. People always need somebody to help them with shit. They don't know how to do themselves. So my question really is, you've built a badass agency. What has made you successful? Like what's the differentiator that has allowed you to hit like the ink 5000 list, you know, what two, three times in a row, tons of clients, been in business eight years. Like what's the, what's the secret sauce to building an agency? So number one is you always have to have good offers. You can't just sell like broad regular shit. You can't just sell like ads and funnels. You have to sell mechanisms, which require you to have a productized fulfillment and obviously like a service. So we have like done for you webinar, we have done for you low ticket. We have the done for you ads, but that's most of the clients resigning and continuation. We sell mechanisms. So for example, you have a content agency, what you should be selling is fan pages. They don't care about the views they care about the mechanism. The mechanism is the fan pages. The result is the views. You look at what most people sell in the content space. It's like, hey, get a million views in 90 days or you don't pay whatever the hell people do now. I don't want to do that. I want to say, hey, I'm going to set up 10 fan pages for you that get on average X amount of million views a month using this blah, blah, blah strat. People care about that, then they care about the results. So if you can buy mechanism with views, that's where you get kit like that's where you just start scaling because you stand out compared and you sound so different compared to everyone. Because just one page though. So think about this. Like I have a content agency that does this for me with the fan pages. I didn't go to them for the views guarantee. I said, dude, how did Andrew tape blow up? How did he mungots you blow up fan pages? That's all I give a shit about high level people buy high level products and I only wanted that. And they were like, yeah, we're switching. They switched their offer because of me. I was like, dude, I want fan pages, you know, I'll drop 30, 40 grand a month on fan pages. They're like, what the fuck? Is this guy psycho? I'm like, yep, because I know that the the morality and the ecosystem will be bigger. So like fan pages are a way better angle than one profile. It's like unique positioning of an offer. That's the first thing. Second thing is people, when you hire cheap, you get shit. Those agencies, they hire cheap. They're QAs atrocious. They're always in the trenches. They always set like if your business has QA, it means the people suck. If you need QA, the people are B players that you're trying to turn from B players and A players. It doesn't work that way. The person who's, let's say we're finding a video editor, video editor wants 1500 bucks a month. Probably not the best. Good video editors won three, four, five, six thousand dollars a month. That person, we don't need to spell, check his shit. So now we can save time, productize, raise prices, increase retention, get more resigns, and then make the business bigger. Because those clients that are willing to pay for the premium service, who are likely their friends? Hey, dude, I got no problems with them. I don't got to check my shit. You should work with them too. Higher level entrepreneurs like myself are like, yeah, I don't want to have to QA and check this bullshit. I'm in. I'll pay more for it. And then the third comes down to maturity models. When you're hiring a team and you're building culture, you have to realize where people want to go. And that comes down to your PPF goals, personal, professional, financial. Where is your team at as a scope of like, do they want a family? Where do they want to live? What age are they? What are their goals? Like as founders and CEOs, we don't ask our team members to question because most people in this online space are, I pay you, I own you, do what I say. That's all this. You don't care about the individual. You don't care that the woman's having a baby. You don't care that this guy's sick. You don't care about anything else but yourself. And that's the problem with most of these people is that they hire people and they think that they own you. So now people are hoppin. Like there's some people that I know in this space where they've worked for, always with the people like, why do you keep hoppin? Oh, cause this person doesn't give a shit. This person to this person is that nobody cares about their goals. So when they go home, they don't associate you with their goals or like, it is just a paycheck. It's just a fucking paycheck, no one gives a shit. Then the fourth is lifetime value. That is the only number if anything that we focus on. So there's two numbers with lifetime value, lifetime value to quick win and lifetime value to reason. So client comes on, this can go the same for you. Maybe you're thinking about the shit in your head right now. Client comes on, they get their first 500,000 viewed video. What should we do right there? Call them. Congrats on your 500,000 view video. We have another package I wanted to do to you and we have an early, resign bonus on that. Do you want to discuss that? I'm going to take what you paid us already and put it towards this and we're not going to post once a day for you. Now you go to two posts a day so you can double up your performance. And here's what it looks like. Do I have a go to charge the card on file, sick, activation. Then we get to, let's say you do, I don't know what your contracts are, but let's say you do a four or six month, let's say you do a six month contract. What are we doing with this client every 30 days to make sure that we are planting the seed that we want them to resign? And if we don't get to them in then 45 to 60 days, they've already made their next move on who their next partner is. They're already shopping because if they're not happy with your shit already, they're finding somebody else to do it. So those two points doing fulfillment services, that's where you got to be looking at. And then if I had to give a bonus one, fifth would be brand. And it's funny because you saw some video that came out or whatever. I've had a very clean brand for years. I've never been sued, never been hit by the FTC, have five stars on Google, four point out on trust, I've never gotten shit, never gotten hit with nothing. That's important, right? Have there been bold things that I've said online, of course, and I will stand by those things all day, but running a business at the level that we're at, you can't do that by fucking people over. You can't. And it's just a thing of like, the online space has all this shit, all this shit. And I'm still going to get shit from people who are below me because they know how far we've gone. And it's like, I just built a good team of good, some good culture like that. That's really it. And then as you keep going and going and going, another bonus one would be like, you're already do it. Obviously, but it's podcasts for people who want to build an agency. You need content. You need to be able to have associated partnerships, not partnerships, but with people who have other good names. If you're an agency and you're helping people, excuse me, and you're making money, people should be inviting you on podcasts. It means that people associate, they want to be associated and they like you. If they don't invite you, you don't have content. Now no one trusts you. And that brings me to the bonus, which is, which is trust factor. You need to have high level business acumen to even get to an eight figure level. You can't like the stuff I just talked about. People don't look at. They're like, oh, yeah, I try to upsell my clients. I resend them. No, you don't. You'd be at half a million a month or more. It's interesting to me because I mean over my career, I've worked in companies, I've built companies, but everything you're saying just sounds like really smart, standard business practice. It was way back in my career when I'd like higher people, like my backgrounds and sales when I first started at higher sales reps. I mean, you want to tie not just, you know, their performance to their, their commission check and their on target earnings. You want to tie it to like, you know, where do you want to be in five years from now? Like what do you want your life to look like? Do you want to get married? Do you want to have kids? You want to move into like manager, director, VP level. You want to maybe this company that we're working out right now doesn't even have the title that you want. So like, how do we get you to go work for fang at some point because maybe that's where you want to end up in your, whatever. So all these ideas are actually very, very smart, normal ideas, but it, I guess I haven't been in the agency space for as long as you have, but it seems like these ideas like just completely miss the agency space, like, which is wild. Most clients are just a number and there's no incentive for the CSMs or the GMMs to want to resign clients. There's no incentive because the business owners don't want to pay the resigns. We give every single GMM 10% of whatever they sell the resigns. They could get paid residual for a very long time if they keep their damn clients. Their pay can almost be double. If they kept all 30 clients each, they would never have to worry about money again. Like literally never again. That's how every other business I've ever worked in works like with ongoing commissions on resigns, on renewing contracts, whatever you always get, you always pay out the sales person on that shit. I've always found that my biggest issue with agencies in particular is it seems like they always look for the cheapest talent and they work people to death and I never understood that model. Like it just seems like they, they, they don't respect people that work for them. And this is like because of the organization, it's all the off shore stuff that started it. The word, the word virtual assistance made that thing possible. $3 an hour or VAs, $5, dude, they don't have any business acumen. You're placing a boulder in a business. They're not doing anything. They're just doing like what do you call paper pusher tasks. That's all it is. It's not real business acumen. You got to hire people with experience, hire people with, you know, good personality, know how to communicate, know how to pivot. Like these things matter in a business. You'll see when you're looking to attract higher level clientele, the higher level to clientele, the higher level to front facing client people have to be. Why do you think agencies fell into this trap of only feeling that they can survive if they pay somebody $5, $6 an hour? Because all the agency coaching programs, they all teach this all this shit, the VAs, the online jobs, that pH, the higher people from Lebanon and I'm like, dude, these people are cheap. They don't care. Oh, but $3,000 a month is a lot there. Listen, man, if that's a lot to him, he's not smart enough. There's more money out there in the world. If that guy really thinks that three grand a month's a lot to him, he hasn't seen shit. So that's a bad look. It's interesting. It's just interesting how this whole space evolved because I think if I remember from your story, you stumbled upon Tai Lopez's like SMA was Tai Lopez teaching this model or no. Tai Lopez was teaching the free trial with local businesses model. So he was not talking about how to structure a company and who to hire and what you should pay them and where you should hire them from. His thing was giving a VA social media management posting, which to be fair is not bad, you know, like it's just posting. They're not client facing. But then what happens is it's like a drug, okay? You have, it's like any other drug cigarettes, whatever. You take one, you're like, ooh, that's a cheap person. Now the next person, you're like, ooh, I need cheap again. You keep going on the rabbit hole. Every new hire has to be cheap. If you keep paying everybody $1,000 a month and someone hits you in your DM and it's like, hey, I want to be your COL, I want eight grand a month, you're going to have a heart attack because you don't know what it feels like to pay four, five, six, $7,000 a month. That bridge you've never crossed. So now you're so used to paying VA's, VA's, you want to bring on a CO? Two people are like, yeah, Casey, your CEO, Casey begs, good ass money, good ass money. Shit. And this, this whole mentality just screwed the industry. Because it's all low hanging fruit, that's another term that also ruined a lot of shit. But the barrier to entry is so low. Like dude, you got a couple hundred bucks and you could pay a VA three bucks an hour. What is that? $24. $24 is a day, bro. Times 22 working days a month. Where the hell am I getting someone full time for $600 a month? That person doesn't know anything. They just know how to answer emails. That's it. And maybe like report to you a couple things a day. That's not an employee. It is a paper pusher. That's all it is. And that whole stigma created all this. There's also other programs out there that are biz-op based. There were programs years ago about becoming a media buyer, okay, which is, you know, some people might know this, you know, what it is, but someone who buys Facebook, you know, ads for business owners. People were like, oh, make 3 to 5 K a month online being a media buyer. That became a biz-op offer, which flooded the market, which then made all these people that want to be media buyers, be media buyers. But they're not business acumen. They're just media buyers. They don't know how to write copy. They don't know what good offers are good, landing pages, the systems, the emails, the SMS. They're just there's button pushers. And that's it. So then that created a title, like all these things create titles. But it's almost like all these things we're talking about. People are just looking for hacks and shortcuts. It's all shortcuts. That's the perfect word for it's all shortcuts. It's not really building a real thing. It's not. It's like, how do I make enough money as an entrepreneur and air quotes working for myself so that I don't have to do a job anymore? It's not how do I scale this agency to 10 to 15 to 20 million dollars, 50 million dollars, have an exit plan, figure out who the strategic person is going to acquire me is, figure out SOP, just like, how do I make money outside of my job? We get higher level clients because we make more money than them. If I'm on a sales call with somebody and they're a roofing company making 12 million a year, I'm like, hey dude, we do 18. Now they trust you more business acumen. If I'm just a starting out agency owner making 40 grand a month and I get an accounting firm that makes 35 million a year, you're not laying in that shit. Neither are they going to trust you. It's the solo-preneur agency thing of being on your own and pocketing some cash and just being an entrepreneur. You're just a contractor for everybody listening. You are not an entrepreneur if you are a solo-preneur, you are a contractor. You are not paid through an S corp. You are every time you get paid, it goes straight to your stripe, it goes to QuickBooks, and then you're buying your Louis Vuitton and all those are the bullshit, and that's what you do. You are a contractor. It's not an entrepreneur. It just drives me nuts, dude. And the agency space is flustered with this, which- Which space, right? The agency space, yeah. It's just so flustered with it. And it's like, dude, it's just- and that's why we do get a lot of attention, a lot of clients who run a lot of ads, people- I spend $30,000 a day on Facebook. We get a fuck ton of traffic. We can join this space and just swallow it. And it's like- Because I do that, because I don't want all these other people trying to take my clients and shit. All the cold email, cold outreach, cold DMing, all this crap that people do, dude, run ads. Cut all this other shit out. If you're that good, put your money where your mouth is run ads. Don't put a $3 an hour VA and fucking bother everybody's DMs. What do you think about how AI will change the landscape of, like, low cost, outsourced help workers? Like, can you layer on AI to somebody who is six to $10 an hour and make them a $20, $25 per hour worker now? I think it's about efficiency. AI can't teach business acumen, though. That's the issue. I can put a VA with Manus and have it manage campaigns, but does Manus know how to make the offer better? Does Manus know what your cost, police and lifetime value and all these things are? No. It's just more button-clicking. It's more shortcuts to fix everybody's dopamine for the day. That's all it is. I do, like, you know, running a big agency, we use AI for efficiency. We don't use, we do not use it to replace. We do not use it client-facing. We use it to be more efficient because I have A players that just need more fucking help. That's all it was there to do. We can make A players now A plus or A minus whatever the next digit is, whatever. We can just make them better. That's just the way that I looked at it was how can I be more efficient? Some of these software's are pretty cool, though. I will give people that, like, I love Manus, by the way. Manus is bad-ass. There's other ones out there that do like the YouTube thumbnails that are AI and they look amazing. I'm like, all right. Fine. You guys got some stuff with the AI, but still, dude, when you're in B2B, people still want to talk to a human, bro. Of course. If I go to a Facebook support chat right now and I want someone to help me with a Facebook ad issue, maybe if something's going on with the account or questions I got, they recently switched to monthly invoicing. So I was on a Facebook chat yesterday. This fucking AI, and I'm like, no, get me a human, man. Get me a goddamn human. I don't want all the chat bot shit. I know. It's horrible. I still need feedback loops from humans. No, it's really, it's actually very bad. It's all the chat. People are over-indexing on using AI. I learned that you tried AI for client deliverables, but the clients didn't like it, so you pulled it back. We tried using Claude and the bots for the copy and the VSLs, client started seeing it. They're like, now we can tell that AI could do it myself, and that's the problem with the agency is that, oh, I could have just done that shit myself. Why am I paying you? There's this new company out called, okay, so I didn't realize this, but said backwards, so it's AI slop, so it's polsia, polsia, which is a new company that just came out. You guys all over Twitter, and he's basically saying like, you put in a prompt for a business, this is going to stress you the fuck out when you go research this. You put in a prompt, and then with a prompt, it will spin up a landing page. It'll build out email sequencing. It will spin up AI ads with like, hey, Jen, and 11 labs, and then run those ads with like one credit card. Obviously, me bored at like four in the morning one time, was like, let me go down this rabbit, it was absolute garbage. It was the worst, worst experience ever, and I was like, and it also was not like, it was not responsive, so when I put in like, say, I want to, I think the prompt that I use was spin up a company to do like content marketing for restaurants, like that was the prompt, and then it like just started creating everything that was kind of half-ass, and really like, if I was going to show this to somebody who was like a friend, I'd be like, I would not want to present this as my company to a friend. And then it like started emailing like random restaurants, like it would just like, it just went off. And then you were like, hold the fuck up, but they don't email anybody. But the point is, I think that this is just the epitome of overreliance on AI. And that was, that to me was extreme, but I think people are using, I mean, this is what happened actually with a whole bunch of companies that implemented AI laid off huge amounts of their team, or just consolidated departments, and then they realized that AI is not a replacement for a human. It should augment and like help people and increase efficiencies, but two things. First of all, you still need like a human at the helm to figure out how to use AI properly. And secondly, the biggest issue that people have with AI is that they don't know how to communicate with it. So prompting is a big issue, because if you give, this is going to add on to your point where you mentioned you can't just turn like a D player into an A player with AI. Somebody who is six to eight to $10 an hour does not know how to prompt AI to get the output that you actually need. It's very difficult. You're going to need a very expensive developer, and that's going to be $50, $75 an hour. And you're still getting fucking railed then 100%. So I just overreliance on AI, like listen, I use it in everything that we do, but still overreliance and just completely ignoring the human element of business is definitely not there. And I use it for a lot is just research, like just data research. I use it for hooks, for stats, for videos, I use it for like using specific shit videos. Yes. So going back to sort of a little bit of your origin story, when you first started building out, uh, wojo media, you were like all in, you were working 19 hour days. I think you passed out at one point and you had to like go to the hospital or something. Yeah. That was my burnout weekend. Was that was that the low point? Was that the thing that caused you to figure out how to build a business and not just be this like solo operator entrepreneur? Like that was during a week and where I had an event in my house in Tampa. I had like maybe 10, 11 entrepreneurs in my living room and I was having a lot of fun that weekend. You know, I flew this girl and we were having a ton of fun and we were starting to talk and I always said people at the house and we were doing marketing and I was doing content. I had someone filming me. It was really cool. For some reason, dude, Sunday I drop her off at the airport. I get out. I get back in a car and I'm driving away and I pass the fuck out at the wheel. So I'm driving and I hit these like cones at the airport and I just have like this weird burnout session where I felt like I neglected my business for two days and I freaked the fuck out. So what was it? Burnout was a panic. It was bold. Like I just like I was so stressed about leaving my business for two days because I was the solo per newer that I like passed out the wheel and I fucking McLaren hit all these like cones and I passed out and this guy like stopped the car from rolling. It was the craziest shit ever dude. I almost ruined my car and I was like, I woke up and I like put war on my face. I'd water on the thing. I just fucking threw it on myself and like that was the day where I was like, bro, and then I came back. I got back to the house. I was okay. And then I went upstairs and I had another panic attack. And it was just like the stress of, oh my god, what happened for the past two days? Like I hope I didn't answer anybody on Friday as a client going to ask for a refund. All these things were like in my head and I just burnt the fuck out and passed out again. And I woke up the next morning, Troy who was living with me came in the room. He's like, dude, we're about to go get dinner. I said, the fuck you mean? I just got back. It's breakfast time. He's like, no, bro, you've been asleep. Wait, where were you? I was like, dude, I dropped, you know, her off at the airport. He's like, bro, it's Monday, not Sunday. I'm like, holy shit. So I fell asleep and passed out for like almost 18 hours and I woke up. He's like, we're going to get breakfast. The weirdest thing ever, dude, it freaked me out. So this was like a wake up call for you? Yeah, bro. And then that morning, I was literally like, all right, I need to hire Dave more. Give him more work because I had my friend Dave working and I was paying him three, four grand a month. I'm like, Dave, move the fuck in. I'll give you $8,000 a month. Move in. I'll pay for your rent. $8,000 a month. Can you fucking do it? He's like, yes. I was like, all right, cool. Let's get Dave in the house. Dave moves in. I got this and that was like the turning point where I started to see the value in people. He wasn't fully committed yet because you'll make it four grand a month. He's like, bro, I'm not moving in. I got a girlfriend and shit. I got a dog. And I was like, yeah, but dude, like you're not married yet. Like get the fuck in here. So then I got him to move in. And that's where I started to realize people's worth and like really started caring about people. I took him on trips. I took him everywhere we went. I poured into that kid and like, it was great to see it. And then he went to 10 grand a month and he went to 12 and like, he started being my right hand dude. And then, you know, his thing, unfortunately, you know, he got married then. He had two more dogs. He moved out, obviously, privacy reasons. And then, you know, his big thing was faith. He wanted to be a pastor, go to the church. And that's when we eventually split ties, but like, yeah, like that was his big thing. He didn't want to be the money hungry dude. He just wanted to be a part of the church. So then we part of ways. How do you as an entrepreneur, because I think this actually plays like a lot of people that are again. The founders that are successful, they figured this out. They have to figure this out at some point. Hopefully it doesn't come to the point where you're like, are Bernie going to pass me out of the wheel. But you've got to figure out how to remove yourself from the business, how to delegate. I think it's a lot, I think it's very hard for people. Even if they do hire, I think that their identity is still tied to the business because they have a control problem and they want to always see the money. So outside of passing out and almost dying, how do you recommend entrepreneurs, like psychologically, in a healthy way, build a business so that they don't have this almost like unhealthy attachment because of balance, right? So having your identity tied into a business is a superpower because you give it 200%. And you will never hire somebody that cares about it as much as you do. But at the same time, if your identity is too wrapped into a business, you probably make not so smart, maybe emotionally driven decisions. If things don't go right, you can be depressed, like high anxiety, you can burn out. So what's your example to navigate this because you just went through this in a major way. Yeah. So the biggest thing is that piggybacking off what you said, you said if you are the one doing it all, the biggest thing to keep in mind is that once you have your identity in it, now you lose all the shit in your innocence. The biggest thing for me is that I didn't have my hobbies anymore. I didn't have the things that I actually enjoyed. I got into business to make money, unfortunately, because I was poor when I was younger. So when I was in control, I wanted to see the money, watch the money, be the money. And then all the other shit that I used to like, I gave up video games, basketball, tennis, one of the movies, I gave it all up because I cared about money more. And that's what really caused the burnout is that I was so wrapped up in what every thought of me and being this like, even making a hundred grand a month, I thought I was hot shit. I was this fucking kid in Tampa living in some big ass mansion and paying rent. I was young. I was stupid. I was naive. I said the way I was. And I'm okay admitted now because every makes mistakes, every, you know, goes through these these transitions. And if they don't, they're lying. They're bullshit. Yeah. And they made me think about certain things a certain way. And like I started losing touch of things I enjoyed. So when I hired Dave, you know, we used to live with Nick and Troy and Dave and me and Nick used to go play basketball a lot more. And once Dave was there, I used to go to the park and, you know, play basketball scrimmages and then I would go to the movies. I'm like, oh my God, I feel like I'm kind of getting my life back a little bit. Not so consumed in money. Like yeah, you know what? If Dave fucks up and I got to refund somebody a thousand bucks, it's not the end of the world. It's not the end of the world. And it's like damn, like I felt like a better gasp of breath of like being okay with shit going south. Because if you want to scale a business, you're not guilty to see everything. We have 500 only clients. I can't fucking see 590 clients. There's no fucking way. I wouldn't even be able to do this podcast. I was kidding. I'd be grilled and worked for 19 hours a day. There's no possibility. I wouldn't have a girlfriend. I wouldn't have dogs. Wouldn't do shit. Wouldn't travel. I couldn't even travel for the day. My calendar would never be able to have a day off. There's just no chance. I would have to move all these fucking calls and take calls in Saturday and Sunday, which now takes out of basketball, movies, enjoying, life, dogs, things that matter. Girlfriends, all this, yo, jazz. You know, I look at the 80 20 rule, you know, it is cliche, but it matters because people don't look at it because they get so simple. What do I do? 20% of the time that drives 80% of the results. Like what things was I good at? I was good at recording ads. I was good at content. I was good at selling. Like I was a fucking insane salesperson because it was my business. It should have been that way. So what did I do? I freaking got Dave in there. So I'm looking at all this shit, the 80% that didn't make any money. I'm like, I got to offload because if I raise my ad spend, I can get more calls and I'll make more money to pay for all the shit I'm about to pay for inside of payroll. So all the 80% like if you look at a, where was I? I was like 80,000 a month when I hired Dave, say 70,000 a month, maybe fuck, I'm giving this for cut as people understand, was a 70 grand a month paid Dave eight, I had a couple designers, graphic designers, funnel people, like really small people on five or in shit. So I was probably paying like 11, 12 grand a month and just payroll, okay. After that, I was like, okay, I got to take a step back because I saved enough money. The solo per new year grind is actually enjoyable because you retain so much cash. Of course, it's like good all profit. So like for three years, dude, I did it and I saved a lot of money. I wanted a safety net because that's what I grew up as. I wanted to have, you know, my number was a mill as I need a mill. So in case some shit goes down, I could fucking recover. It was always my thing. Just get a mill in the bank account and now I can go hire this person, get this CRM, get whatever the fuck I want, go live here, not care about the bills. Let me just get some relaxation. So as soon as that happened, then I got Dave and I started hiring all these people, media buyers, developers, GMM's, a higher to COO when I was making 70,000 a month. But I was only making maybe 15, 20 K a month for about three months because I was ramping these new team members into KPI and I was afraid of losing that. I was like, dude, I just need like, at the time, my rent, I split it with two people. I had, you know, I had my McLaren, which was about 2000 a month. And then I had another car. I was maybe that seems cheap for McLaren. Yeah, because I put $80,000 dollars. Oh, I was like, that's a wild leafy McLaren. So I put 80 K down and that car was 165. I got an old 570s spider edition. That was my first McLaren brawl. That's my favorite fucking car of all time. And yeah, because I had no relation with the bank, I had to put 80 K down and maybe put half cash because my credit wasn't that great. So I did that. I was probably paying like 9,000 a month in lifestyle, eight, 9,000 a month. So I was like, all right, 20 grand is left. I can still live off this like this is fine. I'll eat shit for a little bit. I ramped them into KPI and then I was able to take that, you know, 20% of what I was doing and make it even better. Then I started taking the sales calls, which paid for all that. So then we hit 100 K month, 125, 150. And then I was like, okay, I've taken, oh my God, probably like fucking 800 to 900 sales calls. I'm like, bro, let me find a fucking salesperson. So then I found the salesperson, one on the calls of them for three weeks, brought him into KPI. And I was like, now I have no calls. Now I can focus on making the product better, sitting at 150, 150,000 a month. Now they're making the product better, focused on ascension retention, make these team members better. And now is only on calls for like one or two hours a day. And I was like, damn, I risked fucking so much money for months. I ate shit. I made less money just to make up for it. Indeed is a success story partner. Now if you're hiring, indeed is all you need. Let me give you an example. If I needed to hire a new editor for this show, I'd go to indeed and be super specific. Not just can you edit audio. I'd say I need someone who's edited a conversational podcast for at least three years, gets our style and knows our software, someone who's done this before. And here's the thing with indeed sponsor jobs. I'd get people who fit that description. I'm not digging through resumes from people who've edited one YouTube video. I'm getting actual podcast editors who know what they're doing. People who've worked on shows like ours and can prove it. That's what makes a difference. You get people who actually are what you're looking for. 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If you're in the B2B marketing space, you need to be listening to this. It's hosted by the team at Blent. They are a demand gen agency. They know what they're doing. They're also part of the HubSpot podcast network. What I love about it is they skip all the theory and they just tell you what's actually working today. So demand gen marketing content linked in at attribution. They talk about real strategies that they are using that you can use today that are working. So if you're an entrepreneur, if you're building a business, if you're really selling anything to anyone, go search demand to code it wherever you get your podcast. So your agency has sort of obviously changed a lot over the past eight years. I mean, if I look back to when you first started, I think one of your mentors with Greg Berry, you were talking about these small offers. I want to just understand why you've moved away from things you are no longer doing and sort of like where you're at right now before we press record, we're talking about webinars, live events. So what's changed in the last eight years of you building a pretty successful marketing agency? Is that what you've heard as a marketing agency? So marketing agency over the past eight years, what's changed in terms of what you offer clients, what you see people buying, what's working for people, and then what has stayed the same? So before I did mass scale ads like myself to get more clients, the biggest thing back then was low ticket funnels. It was selling something for 27, 97, retaining, getting some, you know, what we call a self-liquidating offer. And then we use that cash to get booked calls for free. That was a big thing back then. But then costs of ads went up, copies from the fee went up, CPM skyrocketed. And I thought it was because of the economy. It was not, it was because of trust. We are in this big trust recession because we were talking about this in the very beginning of the podcast about coaches and sterling coaching to coaches to coach more fucking coaches on, you know, obviously we'll go down the rabbit hole, but like that cause the lack of trust. So now you have to spend more money to get the same customer. And if that customer is not worth enough to you and your sales cycles are longer, now you have to be able to build the trust gap. So that's when I started sitting there and I was like, okay, and right when I was at that 150 a month mark, that's when I started running events. Because I knew that I had to build more brand equity in the space, run more ads locally in all these cities. I was running them in Dallas and Austin and Newport Beach and San Diego and Miami and Orlando and Tampa and New York City, all these cities. Chicago too. And I did those for free events to get brain awareness and authority and to start posting better content. I was like, hey, I can get here through direct response as a 150k. I have a lot to lose now though. I can lose all this shit so that I went really ham on events. And is that the play now? That's still the play now for just like brand and trust and just like associated selling, I guess you could say. So yeah, that was a big play for us. And then I started a school group, okay. And this was pretty recent like you know, school came out maybe about two years ago really. I built a school group and I started running ads to it. And I was like, hmm, this is really fucking easy. Like I can just get people in here for eight nine bucks on ads. Like this is pretty damn good. Started running weekly group calls. And I wasn't big into webinars back then. I didn't understand it as well as I do now. But I knew how to sell in person at events. But I never did it like online webinars. So then I started running these group weekly calls. And 60 people are shown up 70, 80. And I was like, wait a minute. All these people are alive. I can sell our services. What the fuck am I doing just teaching? I can get these clients and acquire them. So then I started doing like, I started building a pitch deck. I researched through Frank Kern, Russell Brunson. All these like webinar frameworks, Jason Flattelon started, you know, I went to them directly and paid them for hours of their time. And started getting like good at webinars. And I started selling like six, seven, eight people a week on my group. Well, I'm like, wait a minute. Other people can do this too. No one in the entire online space right now is running the offer that I have. So your offer is ads to community. That's is it. Well, no, I'm just about the webinar piece. That's when the shit clicked. And I was like, wait a second, dude. I can get people because you want to know why nobody trusts the person with a thousand followers because they don't know them yet. They're not personal with them yet. So if I planted this kind of webinar system into people's businesses and allow you to build more trust and credibility, you have a better chance of selling than a fucking cold ass booked call. So I was like, oh, shit. And then that's when I got the idea. And that was about two-ish years ago where I got the whole webinar idea. I also got another offer. That's another mechanism. There you go. Perfect. Yeah. Okay, I did that. And that's been our offer for a year and a half was done for you webinar in 14 days. That has been it. And it has crushed. I mean, crushed. Like, dude, we have enterprise clients coming to us, getting webinars built for fucking weird departments in their business. Like, we had a client last week. They run some tech firm and they wanted us to build a webinar around selling people on the company's retreat. I'm like, what the hell kind of client is that? They run an $80 million dollar your business and they just wanted a webinar built to sell their employees on why they should invest to come to the company retreat. It doesn't matter what you're selling. I'm like, holy shit. Dude, these clients are crazy. So, you know, like, they pay, you know, the conversion rates are high. The clients are good. Like, it's a lot of fun. It's great. I was thinking about the way you just laid out your funnel. So what you were doing was paid ads to school community, paid or free. Ah, free. Free school community. Nurture them in the community. And by the way, that's a whole, that, that again, separate conversation why community is so much better than audience. But yeah, so community. In the community, then you run webinars. And because they've been nurtured in the community, they are sort of trusting a little bit. Webinar puts them over the top. Conversion is much higher. And then also what we did was we used the free event to fill up our free event rooms. So, sorry, I said that wrong. We used the free school group. Understood, yeah. We made posts in there. I started running ads in only the popular states. So all the events that I run, they're in Florida, Texas, California, New York, Illinois, Georgia. Because I do some in Atlanta. I only ran the school ads there. So when I make a post in the school group, and I'm like, hey, we're having our event in Miami, the fucking flock of leads. It's all, it's all, they're off in that city or one of the cities. Yeah, it was going to fill up our events. And then we sell in person. And it's just this fucking pinwheel that just runs. And we got 18,000 people in there right now. Crazy shit. If 18,000 people in your school community, you have 18,000. And we just stuck these fuckers all in there. And now it's just like an ever-ending machine. And then I hired an outbound setting team. This where it gets fun. We did that last month. We just did it. And I'm like, I know I'm behind. Like, that's my fucking fault. But like, we built the outbound setting team. We got all their phone numbers. And if they're willing to spend at least 100 bucks a day on ads and in the school question, now all the people on school are getting outbound dialed and getting set. And we, dude. My biggest month was last month. We added about an extra 200 grand a month alone just from the outbound setting team calling school leads based on their qualifications. And we just hammered the phones, getting extra five to seven book calls a day. Two of those fuckers were behind. Like, that's been the game for us. Because now I'm branching community. Branching lead touch points. I'm branching events. And I'm branching data. And that was all we decided to do. And like, dude, it's freaking nuts. And then I have a second funnel right now. It's a free webinar course. I put together like a nice, like, it's actually really fucking. It should be worth more. But I gave it for free as a value ad. It's like a hand one to build community. I want to get you inside of my ecosystem. We give that away for free. They get a straight Google Doc. They can get all the slide templates. I give them everything, bro, to build their own webinar within 48 hours. 24 hours that they sat down all day and did it. And that is getting me $3 leads. My outbound setting teams calling them. And we're just selling them DFI. And it's been fucking crazy. I'm spending like 150 bucks, 200 bucks a day. Small money. But I'll get 70 leads. I'll book three to four calls a day. But I'm getting 40 bucks a book call and that shit. Now we just got to get more setters. And I'm going to scale that to like 5K a day. Just have an absolute fucking rampage. It makes so much sense from just like a customer, a psychology standpoint. Why this is working so well. But I don't really see any other agencies or businesses at all that are selling the way that you're selling. They're not because the fulfillment's very hard. I have to admit that that our fulfillment needs to be a little bit better. When you say fulfillment. So after the webinar, after the live event, okay, fine, then you have to do the done for you. But that's a fulfillment. That's that, that's the fulfillment. But the hard part about the fulfillment at 590 clients is like, like bro, three of them might not be motivated right now. Four team members might not be motivated. We got to catch that shit early. Oh yeah, it's a people problem. It's a, it's a people thing. That's the hardest part. When you got 25 team members, you can look over their shoulder all the fuck you want. 25 is not that much. When we're looking at like 100 plus, yeah, no chance, bro. No chance. It's hard. But you've solved the hard part of the business. You've solved the making money part of the business. Yes, just the hard part. A five to say in the next six to eight months, our biggest goal right now, company wise, is just getting our resigns up like five to eight percent. Like that's our biggest goal. Get resigns up five to eight percent. We're golden. We're gonna give them a five, which is a lot for people who don't understand. Like you're like five to eight percent. Yeah, which six hundred clients. That's a lot of fucking people. If we raise that five to eight percent and keep that for a whole quarter, boom, we're challenged. The strategy you're using right now, does this strategy have a lifespan on it? Or do you think it's something that like as you're moving more towards live events, do you think this is more like just the future of how sales is going to go? I mean, I've been running that same because we have our done for you ads funnel and we have our webinar funnel. The webinar funnel run from two years straight, no issues. And then the done for you ads funnel, that funnel has been running for six years, almost six years. It has never fucking flopped. It's the same funnel, same landing page. And everybody laughs when they hear that. That's funny. It has never changed. Those ads that you'll see of me, you'll see, if you ever come across it, it's an ad where I'm like, I'm gonna run your ads. And I'm pointing at you. And I have like a Ritz Carlton cabana in the background. That ad was filmed five years ago. That fucking thing's been running for five years. I looked the same five years ago. And people don't think that like, oh, it must be new ads all the time. Dude, it's not about the fucking ads. It's about the offer and do they fucking trust you or not? We get so caught up in this like more creative, more creative. Yeah, that stuff's important. I do it for testimonials and stuff. I'll do that. But if an ad's running and it's killing it, let it rock. It's the offer. The only reason why those offers work when it's just like broad done for you is because people know like and trust me. If I had no association in the industry, no one who I was, that ad would not do well. That ad just consistently fucking runs. And I love it. And it's like that whole school strategy that's running for two years. The done for you funnel has been running for six years. The webinars running for two years. Low ticket funnels. Those I actually don't run anymore. I just have a book funnel on retargeting where I have my book for free plus shipping on my book. But that's ran at 50 bucks today. Retargeting small spend. But that's just there for like brand awareness and to get a couple buyers and who can then book calls. But yeah, I mean, free lead opt-ins. Those have been good over the last two months with the outbound setting team. You don't do a lot of low ticket at all then. Not anymore. The little ticket I have are the events though because the tickets, they're 47, 97, 1, 97. But it's still low ticket, but super high trust bill. Oh, hell yeah. So that's the difference between most low ticket, which is like, here's a PDF. Here's the book. And who opens it? Only fucking 30% of them, 40% of them. The ones are like, oh, I'll get to it and then they want to forget it. A lot of event low ticket. It compounds because now it's brand for you. It's content for you. It's super high trust building. This makes a lot more sense. And I use the low ticket because the low ticket funnel self-liquidates. So like, I'll give you some stats. The event on Saturday, I spent 28,000 on ads. And I only got about 11,000 back. Not a lot. But it means that I only spent 20 grand for $31,000 of people in the room. So now I just got to make up for that 21k plus the 5k and food and beverage. So I'm going to get for 26k. That's fine with me. I'm a lot, I'm okay with that. We have Orlando in Tampa next week. Orlando is fucking killing it, dude. I'm profitable on the front end for tickets. I don't worry about shit right now. The first day I ran it, I was spending like 500 bucks a day. I woke up to like 800 bucks. I was like, what the fuck is going on? Low ticket funnels. That was 70 years ago. It's so hard to profit on the front end on a low ticket funnel now. It's so difficult. You know, I don't do events, but I have some friends that run like CPG companies and whatnot. Like even in the CPG space, apparently, if you are profitable and have like a row as at all, on like the first sale, like a unicorn now. Bro, unicorn. And I was like, I was like, dude, like these event funnels work. So I'm pushing out this new mastermind offer because the mastermind offer leads to my portfolio company. And that's kind of my play to get the 3 million a month is I need to get equity in businesses. I gotta start playing P. Cause I got cash on hand. Let me start throwing businesses a couple hundred grand here, a couple hundred grand there wanting some fucking equity and scale 3 million a month that way without adding on more shit. If I can do that, the play is the mastermind. It's expensive enough. People going there, the qualify themselves, they start growing. I come in. Hey, how much is 5%? How much is 10? How much is 15? Let's do it. And now I have a small portfolio, like a team behind me. That's like all US, no VAs, like real motherfucking sharks who come in their build sale systems. Build all the funnels, do all the marketing, shoot your videos in person, videographer, like all that. And then we get a percentage. And then I split it with the team and everyone wins in the small little. I love that. So that's going to be through that because I can't sell done for you services through the events. It's too much for fulfillment. We have, you know, we have. 112 things too much for fulfillment. Cause I can't do it. I if I ran three events and I sold done for you, I'm going to sell 20 clients a day. My team can't on board 60 people in a week. It's fucking impossible. We can, we can on board about 20 to 25 new clients a week. One last thought on live event because now you are all in this and it seems like your conversion rates and everything about them is working really, really well. You said fulfillment stuff, but I personally believe you will find a way to solve that problem at some point because that is purely a people problem. For somebody who is listening to this and is thinking, okay, this is something an interesting way to grow my business. What is the one thing that they have to be aware of when they're running a live event that could completely like side rail this entire strategy? If you don't care about the attendees and you don't make things custom to them, they're going to feel like just the sitting duck. Like do we have, I don't mind sharing this on camera because I don't think a lot of people will find out. But do like we do custom handwritten notes. We do custom name tags. We do customized workbooks. We do all the research before you sit your ass in a seat and you are just like, you're basically a client that hasn't signed yet. Like that's the difference in a live event. Live events where you just have a bunch of speakers go up about random shit. I hate that shit. That's the majority of them. That's the majority of them. They're like, oh, here comes up him. Talk about fucking wholesale real estate. Okay, he goes up. He's like, I make a lot of money. Okay, cool, next dickhead. And then it's just like dickhead after dickhead. You go to enough events and you see all the same pay for play speakers doing the same keynote. But instead I went the workbook route. So like, is it boring? It's only boring if you're an idiot. If you don't care about your business, then it's boring. And like do like, you know, transparency. I'll have 120 people. I won't be shocked if 10 walk out within an hour. I won't be shocked. You don't care because I don't give a fuck. Is there not buying? They wouldn't buy water in a desert. They're not buying shit. So it's this thing where I also do more reciprocity for them. Resoprosity is huge in live events because if you charge somebody 997, you better give them a ton of free shit. You better make sure their food is calm. You better make sure they have nice drinks. You better make sure their water's always full. You better make sure they have a nice workbook, a parallel gift bag, all that. Now I don't charge 997, all right? I undercharge so I can over deliver. So 47 bucks, workbook that's 60 bucks for me to print from staples. I'll get you your food and I'll let you come to cocktail and I'll shake your hand, I'll have a fucking dance. I over deliver on it and that eight hours of value you have to think about by. You have to put pen to paper to figure out how to buy because you're like, you feel so guilted. Then on the bottom of their seats is a handwritten note for my girlfriend that goes through all the attendees, no, they're not fucking automated printed, they are all custom. Custom printed note with their name on it gives them two free bonuses if they come to the front of the room and purchase. Everything is articulated and custom to them. The note talks about their business in it. The note talks about where they want to scale because they fill out their RSEP form before the event. I know everything about them. So like we do all this to make it an event that just over delivers on $47.97. It's fucking insane. It's just insane. I don't want to charge people more just because people tell me that it's like, oh, raise your prices. No, I'll charge less, get more people in the room, impact more people. You can charge more, do the motivational rara, sell them and then they'll refund you because your shit's trash. You have a whole bunch of pissed off. And then you got pissed off people who caused the trust recession. Oh, I bought this thing from this guy and he promised all this money and don't promise money. 80% of people are doing it. So now everyone's fucking screwed. That's the problem. So now the 20% that are good like myself and you get screwed. Oh, I went to this person. I went to that person. They promised we all these things. We don't promise anything. You set the expectation yourself because you see me and that's the other issue. And that's why I need to take myself out of the ads as we go and that's part of our enterprise value thing, which is next year. I want to start hiring women and team members to shoot video ads. I'm going to pull myself slowly away from being the front face because the problem with people. And like, yeah, dude, you're in content. I'm an ass. Sometimes clients get mad about shit. It's the way the world works. Can you talk about that? Yeah, we can talk about that. There are more clients that get mad because the way I live than the fucking results. We have clients who are like, oh, I saw Wojo on Instagram today driving around his McLaren. Where the fuck is he? I'm like, dude, I'm not here. I'm not in the business. I'm the founder. Go talk to Casey's CEO. What I do has nothing to do with you. Oh, he's away. He's on vacation. He's traveling. Yeah, because I'm drawing my goddamn life. It's interesting, right? The personal brand because double-edged sword. It is a double-edged sword. People don't get help. They don't have privacy themselves and they have nothing going on for themselves. They stick their nose and all your shit. People are bored. They are bored as fuck, dude. They are bored. So personal brand is, I mean, double-edged sword. Double-edged sword. It's like built everything that my life is right now. So it's been a huge benefit. But yeah, it comes with a lot of bullshit. I don't have a business at this point, the size of yours, and I still get random stuff just for it. But what I would say, if I were to do it over, once I hit half a million a month, I should have taken myself out. You believe that? I should have. Yes. Because, dude, the expectations on earth now are building personal brands for themselves. Yeah, I just don't like it for the agency because it's money and money out. It's I spent money with you and I got X amount out. And they're looking for quick money, quick fixes, shortcuts, and shit. And then it comes on to me. And I'm like, dude, I wasn't the one that fucking did X, Y, and Z. I built my business through personal brand. So they think that they're getting me. That's the issue. Yeah, that's tough. Very tough. Have you changed your view on, because you said at one point about controversy, if you're not willing to be controversial, no one's gonna give a fuck about who you are. Do you think about attention the same way or differently the same way? No one cares anymore for the nice opinion. I think that people are tired of being lied to. I feel like people are weaning towards the truth more than ever. That's why controversial people online who actually say like, real shit get a lot of views. But they're mean. It's mean to say the truth. People like being lied to, bro, because people like having drama and shit to talk about. Like think about most conversations. You know, we were all broke at one point. Think about all the conversations we had with other broke people. It was always negative talking about negative shit, et cetera. That's how people want to be. So that's what then gets pushed out. And that's what gets views. That's why politics get the most amount of views ever. When you look at Facebook ads that's during the political years, what gets the most views? Fucking Pepsi or Donald Trump, Donald Trump. It's always about opinions and controversy. It always will win. It is always gonna be that way. Because if he says something that you don't agree with, you now have the full freedom of speech, which is a valid thing. Everybody has freedom of speech. But their freedom of speech is out of fucking control. It's out of control. It's like everyone says the most wild shit now. Because they know they're gonna get views for it or they get attention because people are mean. But that's again, that's too far. Too far. There are some opinions where I'm like, you know, like, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Like that. So you say shit that you genuinely believe will help somebody live a more successful life. There are people that say shit just to get views. And they're not helping anybody. Like I had a video that went decently viral. I don't know what your views are, but I made a video because I truly believe. And I said that I don't go to organized church. I do private prayer. I think that God is a private relationship. I think this is a very valid statement. A lot of people disagree, a lot of people agree. I don't think that people need to be online talking about God and all this stuff. Keep it that shit to yourself. Was that controversial? It was that a lot of people do. It was a religious base take. But I was like, dude, I go to private prayer. Like every morning I leave the house. I go to Dunkin' Donuts. I get a nice coffee. I get a donut. And then I go to a local church. And I just sit down in a pew. And I do private prayer. I dip and I leave. I don't do organized. I don't want to feel like I'm getting something in my face. People that donate, give me money. I just want to do my private prayer. I want to go home and work on my business. And people, I was like, hey, like, you know, I just enjoy that better. I feel like God is a private relationship. There's UC people online, not gonna name names, but they use God to sell people. Let's do overrated, underrated, just some ideas and some people in like the business, thought leadership, marketing space. And then I want to pull out some last ideas, some like words of wisdom for you that is, you know, talking to your younger self or talking to an entrepreneur is just getting started, okay? So let's go through some of these people. Coaching, underrated, overrated. Oh, is there any space for it at all? Selling knowledge. More on the business development space. Explain. Like higher level of business advice. Like for people who are doing seven figures are higher. There is room for KPMG, Deloitte, or is that I still think that's overrated something? I would go more for SOPs, hiring, sales teams, things that are higher level shit. Things that are like very complex. Not fucking copy and paste follows, like, no. Okay, let's go through some people, Grant Cardone. Underrated. What? I just think that a lot of people hate on in for certain things. And I think that since I've been through some of his programs and some of this stuff, like we're in the Elite 125, we did the platform. I spent 400 grand on it. Like they know what the fuck they're doing. Like they run a real operation. They got 400 employees. They've a huge sales team. I think they know what they're doing. I've been in the office like it's not a joke. You worked with Brandon Dawson, too, and Natalie Dawson. Yeah, pretty good friends on them, too, yeah. Hermosy. Overrated underrated. Overrated. Why is that? All the shit's for free on YouTube. I just don't see the value of it. Does he not sell implementation? He does, but it's not in with him. It's with a team of people that have him grown a business to a figures themselves. So he has, cause he, so he is first to exit. They charge 50K for a one day intensive and you don't even get the talk to the guy. It's a weird upsell. Personally, it's just stuff that I, like, like all the videos, like I like the brand. I'm not against the guy, but all the questions you see of the content, someone will go up to the mic and they're like, I have two businesses. One makes nine million a year. One makes two, which one do I focus on? And they think he's smart for saying the one with nine. I'm like, bro, it's, it's, it's common sense, man. Like it's not, it's not crazy. It doesn't widen the gap for him. Bradley underrated. Bradley overrated. He's a dick. He's so mean, dude. He just mean to everybody. He just, dude, literally I've tried to text him multiple times. I worked on on his ads. He wouldn't film any videos and then his, uh, his podcast. Charging me 25,000 bucks for a podcast on my bro. It's not worth 25 grand. We go back and forth. He's just very like, he's not a people part. He's like a confrontation. Oh my god. Yeah, bro. Like the text I have from him, I'm not gonna show people, but like he's an asshole. Yeah, no, no. Andy Elliott overrated. Why? Cells air. Antioze. He doesn't sell sales. He sells air. He owes me four on a grand. And his employees were paying me instead of him. Bullshit. That one I'll go hard on. Bullshit. He owes me four on a grand? Yes. I took their book funnel from zero to 14 million in 11 months. Everybody there sells air. It's just motivational, raw, raw bull shit. It's ridiculous. All right, let's go through some last sort of words of wisdom. So you said you're 28 now, right? OK, so you built all this by 28. What do you understand now that you didn't know five years ago? People are more important than yourself. That'd be number one. Two is. Two is a dollar save is not a dollar earned. And three would be. Oh shit. Three would be my three X rule for spending money. So I started making money to spend a lot of money on stupid shit. Where if you take something you want to buy, you triple the price. And if you're OK with it, you buy it. Now some I did not follow in the beginning. Now I'm good, but I didn't follow that rule in the beginning. I went fucking ravage, but yeah. What did you give up to build your life, your business that most people don't see? Probably my peace. You happy? I'm happy with the way things are, but I would like to be a little bit happier. But what does that even mean? It's like, do you know what you know what happiness means? And do you know what like success means for you? I mean, I would like to exit at some point. And I just don't want to work again. If that's going to be bored, I'll be bored. But I get to like fucking chill for a little bit. Like I would love to, OK, to answer your question simply, I would love to live my life for a year without the internet, to answer your question very simply and see what things I would enjoy in my life. Like what things I would actually do, where I would travel, et cetera. What things would my life look like without the internet for a year? Because I'll be honest, you like, I chose this business to make money. But like, dude, I fucking hate the internet. Fuck hate it. And now I'm a part of it. And I'm like, dude, there's just so much toxic bullshit. And I would just love to just not have a phone for a year and see what my life would look like. And just spend time with my dogs in the fucking middle of the desert with my girl and just not do shit. Like what books would I read? What habits would I take on? What puzzles would I fucking solve? Like who the fuck knows, dude? Do you have a number you want to hit before you do that? I need 15 million saved. 15 million saved is your FU number. 15. I just need to have 15 million in the bank, leave the fuck alone. And I can make that go a long way. Well, I mean, yeah, if you're hitting like four to six percent interest on that. Yeah, that's the whole point, yeah. What are you more afraid of now than when you started? Getting to the 15 million before my parents pass. Because I'd like to travel the world with them for a little bit, as they get older. That's beautiful. I feel like that's the biggest worries that I'm, I get to get to that number quick enough. And that's why I'm going hard on events again. Is it selfish? A little bit. But I'm doing it for a good cause to help other people and not trying to make as much. But I just want to stack bread. Like one of the biggest things that my mentor Greg said to me, and I never fucking until you're mental. Still, I still talk to Greg. He's very off the internet. He doesn't have an Instagram nothing. He doesn't do anything internet. He actually has a fucking Nokia cell phone. Like biggest thing he said to me is like, bro, he runs a Brodery businesses does like three or a million a year. He rents a house in Connecticut for five grand a month. He's the most fucking humble motherfucker drives a Jeep. He's like, dude, the worst day of your life is going to be when your dad does. And I still don't understand it because it hasn't happened. He's like, that'll be the worst day of your fucking life. And you might cause you to go drink and might cause you to do some stupid shit and might cause you to hurt yourself and might cause you to think about life a certain way. You might quit your fucking business after your dad does. You might do something crazy. He's like, I'll be the worst day that you're going to live because your dad is the only man in this world who actually cares about you, you doing better than him. The only person, every other motherfucker out there wants to eat you alive, but he's the only person that I'll actually care about you. Same thing with your mom. I understand, though. I understand. You know, like you got friends who are like, yeah, dude, wish you the best, but let's be real, dude. They want to make more money than your ass does. They want to have a nicer car. They want to have a hotter life. Your dad don't give a fuck. There's no dick measuring condos with your dad. No. So it's like, you know, that's just the way it is. So just a thought on that, how do you reconcile creating more balance in your life? You do have time for people you love while simultaneously like very aggressively pursuing a financial goal because there are two conflicting ideas. Yes. Very conflicting. Pardon for me. I think it was not having as much friends distracting me like does not having as much socializing shit around me. So that's how you balance the two. When I was making less, I had more friends, but I got invited to too many things, weddings, fucking bridal showers, all these things that I felt obligated to go to that were just distracting the fuck out of me. Oh, we're going to Italy. You should come. Hmm. Can't. Oh, we're not inviting him anymore because he can't go. I don't have more than eight friends. I know all eight. I'm fucking two hands. I don't got more than eight. Are you happier this way? Yes. A lot happier than I was before. I was making, I was making like good money, but I was miserable with it. Like I just, I was just buying dumb shit. I was trying to look cool like no one fucking cares like no one gives a shit. You know, like I was, um, it's funny. I was talking to my friend on the plane and I was like, yeah, dude, I rented a Jeep. I'm going to pop. You only got a Jeep. I'm like, why does it matter? It's a fucking car. It gets me from eight is eight is Z. I don't need a fucking Mercedes for eight hours. I don't need to get a fucking Bentley for eight hours. What is this thing about me and status and money? Is that all my identity is? Why is that the only question? The question should have been, what podcast are you going on? Be a fucking human. Not a fucking question. And that's the fucking question is, oh, you only got a Jeep. I'm like, dude, these motherfucking people. So what was the point when you realized like, or how did you get rid of the people that were not the right people in your life and understand what like actual happiness and success was not tied to like material wealth. And when people started assuming that I was buying things, if we did things as a group who was buying, that was when I started getting really annoyed. Yeah, that's in my, oh, we should do a boat day. Hey, whoa, Joe, go find one. Fuck you. Hey, whoa, Joe, we should do this. Hey, whoa, Joe, we should do that because they know I can fucking afford it. And they know who the fuck's paying for it. And I would fold because they didn't want to lose friends. But what's the point in keeping a friend if you're mad at the first impression? It's interesting because I have friends that have way more money than me. Let us sell companies for hundreds of millions of dollars. And I would never in a million years like if we do an event together, we'll go half. It's better that way. It's so much culture, but that's my personality. My personality is I'm not letting anybody buy my shit. And if you want to go rent a yacht, let's split it. And if I can't afford it, then I don't want to. And most people think that conversation is weirder awkward. Oh, we bring all friends, the other who have money. Hey, guys, everyone, here's my Venmo. That's awkward to set. No, that's respectful. It's respectful, right? People respect it, but to the culture, it's like, oh, you don't have the money. Now it's a fucking challenge. Now you're challenging me if I have money or not. I don't like that at all. It's ridiculous, though. That's how people do it. But that's that is my litmus test for keeping good friends around. Yeah. So if that's if we're doing a thing together, we go to dinner, we split the dinner. That's it. It's just that's the way it is. And that's like a good friend. And nobody's trying to, nobody's trying to flex, but also nobody's trying to get like a free lunch either. It's like, that's a normal person in my mind, but I feel like, yeah, it took a lot of, it took a lot of cutting to get that group. Yes, it, yeah, same thing here. Cutting the fuck out, yeah. Last thing I want to ask you, if you could, I mean, you are very young already. So we'll take it back to even a younger Jason Wojo. The most important piece of advice that you've learned over your life that you would tell your younger self, or think about, I don't know if you want kids or not at some point in your life, but say you wanted to pass down one piece of wisdom to your kids. The most important thing that's been most meaningful to you, what was that and why? Solve problems fast instead of letting it linger. When we just let shit linger and sit, it just hurts us more on the end. It's the same thing with relationships. If you don't want to be around somebody, just get it over with now. Don't let it linger. Same thing with intimate relationships. Some people are intimate relationships just for intimacy, but they know they have to cut it, but they just let it sit because they're needy and they just want to have sex. Like these things are, you just let things linger. You make it worse for both parties. It's just, it's just worse. It's terrible. Cut shit, move on, make decisions quickly. And ironically on the other side of the decision, life is usually better. Yes, but it will hurt for a day or two, and then you'll get over it. You know, like it'll suck because you know that you're losing something. And that brings me to the quote to really answer your question, is when we say yes or something, we say no to something else. But as the way world will always work, right? We say yes to not seeing our parents for a holiday. We say no to blah, blah, blah, blah. You say yes to the wrong person? Now we say no to the right person. And that's one thing I've always lived by, Mike, if I say yes to this, what am I saying no to? Is it really that valuable what I'm saying no to? And no is the most powerful word sometimes because you have to know when to cut the fucking strength. You just have to know when. The people who respect you will eventually like you in the long term, but people who don't respect you will hate you short term. So having a harder stance on what to say, I assume what to say no to actually ironically filters the good and bad people out of your life. Less stress on you because you know you wanted to make the decision anyway. You know you've been taking benefit for a while. And now that you made it, now you get like your shoulders don't feel so heavy. You just don't feel so like fucked up, you know, the feeling you're like, you know, the shit's all on you and you got these big shoulders and your muscles are tensed up. And then you let it go when you finally get to go, but you lost something in the process. You just got to be okay with loss.