George Kamel - Money Expert & Top Ramsey Podcast Host | What Keeps 99% of People Broke

I just want to take a second and thank Cornbread Ham for supporting today's episode. Now Cornbread Ham CBD gummies have been this really nice addition to my wellness toolkit. I don't use them every day just when I want to win wine after those extra busy weeks, but they're perfect for those moments when you want to take the edge off and just find your balance really just shut off from work. Now what makes them special is how Cornbread Ham crafts them. They only use the flower of USDA Organic Hamplants. That's the best part for the purest, most potent experience, no fillers, no artificial fluff, just clean, full spectrum goodness and delicious watermelon berry and peach flavor. I keep them in my nice stand for those moments when I just need a little extra help relaxing and I love how transparent they are too. Every batch is third party lab tests. It's you know exactly what you're getting and they put together a special offer for all success story podcast listeners. All listeners can save 30% off their first order. Just head to cornbreadhemp.com slash success and use code success at checkout. That's cornbreadhemp.com slash success code success for 30% off your first order of these amazing gummies. When I grew up it was get good grades, study the thing you want to study and your life is going to be amazing. But they don't tell you that road is paved with a bunch of lies. Imagine this you're drowning in debt stressed out by the weight of financial burdens and convinced that wealth is for someone else someone luckier or more privileged. Now picture the complete opposite financial peace total freedom and becoming a self-made millionaire. The most paramount thing in your adult life is the credit score and so I started chasing that and so you just sort of swipe and swipe and swipe and it trains your body to be okay with debt. The idea of just accumulating debt and having that be your path to a peaceful non-stressful life is a total myth. I pulled my credit report someone had used my social security number. I had more in debt than I had in salary. I found the Ramsey plan and it changed my life so I went through it and decided I can do an 18 months of him willing to give up these things. If you're just willing to make a small sacrifice it will pay dividends for the rest of your life. This is the story of George, an ordinary guy who once fell into every money trap you can think of credit cards student loans and a culture that glorified debt. Today George is a sought after speaker co-host of the Ramsey show America's second largest talk radio show and a champion for helping others break free from toxic money myths. Money should not be the goal. Money is a tool to help you accomplish your goals. 97% of the 10,000 millionaires that we studied said that they can control their financial destiny. It has nothing to do with money. It would be about character. Your character matters. That's what will carry you through life and as a byproduct I think people find success. This conversation will challenge how you think about money success and what it means to truly live like no one else. Welcome to success story. I'm your host, Scott Clary. The success story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network. HubSpot not only supports this show but they support entrepreneurs. That's why I'm such a huge fan of HubSpot and I'm very grateful for HubSpot for supporting the show because they help entrepreneurs and as a fellow entrepreneur I know it takes a lot to grow your business a lot of audience attracting a lot of sales a lot of marketing a lot of leads for a lot of channel management a lot of content a lot of long days late nights a lot of weekends a lot of wishing there wasn't easier way but there is with breeze is this HubSpot's new collection of AI tools it's easier than ever for marketers for entrepreneurs to attract audiences to increase leads to score customers to close deals fast which means pretty soon your company will have a lot to celebrate visit HubSpot.com slash marketers to learn more. You went from around $80,000 in debt to millionaire status and along the way you discovered a lot about breaking free from the system that I think most people miss. So talk to me a little bit about your journey because you described yourself as sort of an average millennial with very average debt and very average education in terms of you know I'm putting money into college and I'm gonna go live the American dream and I'm gonna go find a job. So what did you discover about this system that a lot of people find themselves in and that was broken? Well like a lot of people when I grew up it was you know go to school get good grades get into the college of your dreams study the thing you want to study and your life is going to be amazing but what they don't tell you is that that road is paved with a bunch of lies because you get to the end of that and you're $100,000 in student loan debt you have some credit card debt you've got a car payment and you're trying to achieve this American dream with an 800 pound gorilla strapped on your back and so you're feeling the weight that's what people are feeling today when they're living paycheck to paycheck in their 20s and 30s it's mainly because they fell for those lies early on and so what I realized is that the system is designed to keep you broke if you follow this current kind of toxic money culture we find ourselves in what do you learn well at 18 you got to open a credit card get as many as you can utilize all the rewards in meanwhile companies are raking in billions of dollars Americans are going into record levels of credit card debt every year then they tell you well you're an adult now you need a nice car you can't be driving around that hoopty from high school so you pick up a $500 car payment so you can feel like all right I'm an adult now then what do they tell you stop renting stop renting you got to get a mortgage you got to get a mortgage get a house get a house in the from the boomers who got to pay $30,000 for their house you know years ago so all of these decisions have left left us really strapped capped zapped financially and we're left to pick up the pieces and that was me graduating from college you know with a bunch of credit card debt with a bunch of student loan debt climbing my way out and luckily I found the Ramsey plan and it changed my life getting out of that mess you know it's funny I always thought that one of the most predatory things was those little credit card booths that they have on university campuses during frost or rush or whatever it is and I'm like man this has to be one of the worst decisions financially to get into out of young age because first of all yeah people use credit cards but you don't know what you're doing you don't know what credit card you're signing up for you don't know what you're you're not using that stuff for strategic debt either you're using that stuff to go out to bars and to go shopping and for food and then on top of that you have all the debt that the university puts on to you and you have student loans you have lines of lines of credit that are advertised and marketed to you like I went through the same thing I was very fortunate because I was in a position where I actually got a fair amount of my tuition paid for because my mom worked for the university and that's actually one of the smart life hack it is a big life hack but not everybody can do that so when you were going through this system now hindsight's 2020 looking back but what were some of the things that you I mean like what was that did you participate in credit cards you start to take out a line of credit for school like walk us through your situation because I think that's going to make it really real for people that are going through it right now absolutely yeah so I grew up with immigrant parents they're from the Middle East from Egypt and Syria so when they came to the states they kind of adapted to this American money culture and when it came to college it was kind of just like oh we'll figure it out and I went wow they've they've got some money sitting around they're not worried about this at all what that turned into was hey we're going to help you take out loans in your name to go to college and so I didn't fully understand what was happening when you're 17 or 18 you're just bright eyed bushy tails ready to take on the world and pursue it your dream and then on top of that I was told well you got to have a you got to build your credit score that's the most paramount thing in your adult life is the credit score is this three digit number that tells you America what's your word financially and so I started chasing that and to do that I had opened a credit card and so I got the mx sky mile so I thought well I'll be able to visit my parents that Thanksgiving for free if I get this credit card and then I got the discover cashback because had rotating cashback at restaurants and entertainment and I thought that's a smart thing while I'm going out I might as well make money and so these are the kinds of decisions you make at 18 years old as a knucklehead and so that led me down this primrose path and there's a sunk cost fallacy that a lot of experience where you go what's another payment I'll get that next month I'll worry about at the end of the month when the credit card bill comes in and so you just sort of swipe and swipe and swipe and it trains your body to be okay with debt and one of the most controversial things that ramsey has been preaching for 30 years now is that there is no such thing as good debt we're okay with a mortgage debt we won't you know yell at you for getting the mortgage and paying it off but the idea of just accumulating debt and having that be your path to a peaceful non-stressful life is a total myth and a lot of people are falling for it thanks to social media it's interesting right because then you start to look at and I know you speak about this a lot you start to look at your credit score and to increase your credit score what do what do people say well open more lines of credit and have a couple more credit cards and you know don't don't use it all don't worry don't use it all but you have to get these credit cards to be able to increase your credit scores then you can afford a mortgage and then you can afford to borrow more money and you can put yourself in more debt and you can pay more for things than they are really worth so this it's this I think there's a huge issue with early like early childhood education around finance because there is none there really is no smart early childhood education around finance so then we just succumb to whatever is marketed to us but when you okay so you are a typical millennial you're you graduated university college you have all this that you're working side hustles to make ends we can try and pay off this debt as well what I think is already more ambitious than most people just try and get this job and work a nine to five w two so what was the sort of like the the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak in terms of I need to fix my life I'm not happy I'm not being I'm not able to pay off my debt the traditional system is broken what was that sort of inflection point in your life that pushed you to go discover Ramsay pushed you to go look at money differently well the the irony here is that you know I'm literally a camel George camel and so the straw that broke my back here was when I got I had identity theft and so I pulled my credit report because I got calls from collectors being like hey you owe us money on this AT&T bill and I'm like I don't even have AT&T I going from a Verizon collector going hey you owe us money and Verizon I'm like dude what what's going on here so I pulled my credit report and found that someone had used my social security number address name all these things to open up these credit lines at these phone companies and so that's when I saw the scarier part was seeing all of my debt listed out on that credit report I had never seen it I was just kind of heading the sand going I think I have some over here with Sally man I think I've got some over here here's my credit card bill I get the picture but seeing it all right there and realizing that I had more in debt than I had in salary that was a gut wrenching moment lump in the throat pit of the stomach where you're just like oh my gosh how did I get here like I'm $40,000 in debt and I make $37,000 like how am I going to ever pay this off it felt like just chains and that's when I had discovered Ramsay and it was my first kind of big boy job they they let me work here as an email marketing coordinator that was my first job and I figured it out convinced them I could do the job and so that's when I went through financial piece university which is our flagship nine lesson money course and as a new team member if you haven't gone through financial piece university you're required to go through it to get you know a full picture of here's here's what we do this is the product that has changed a lot of people's lives you need to be in on this mission if you're going to work here so I went through it and decided oh my gosh I can actually get out of this and it's not going to take a lifetime it's going to take me 18 months I can do it 18 months if I'm willing to do these things if I'm willing to give up these things and so there's the thing I wanted which was debt freedom there's the price that I had to pay to get that and then there was the willingness to pay that price and the best thing about financial piece university is it shows you here's the price you didn't have to pay but it also motivates you to have the willingness to do it that's where a lot of people stop they see the price and I go no thank you I'm not going to sell the car I'm not going to get two more side jobs I'm not willing to do that I want comfort but I was willing to be uncomfortable for a short season for 18 months so that I could have peace on the other side for the next 18 years and that's that's the trade off that I just want everyone to grasp if you're just willing to make a small sacrifice for a short period of time it will pay dividends for the rest of your life I just want to take a second and thank cornbread ham for supporting today's episode now cornbread ham CBD gummies have been this really nice addition to my wellness toolkit I don't use them every day just when I want to win wine after those extra busy weeks but they're perfect for those moments when you want to take the edge off and just find your balance really just shut off from work and what makes them special is how cornbread ham crafts them they only use a flower of USDA organic hamplants that's the best part for the purest most potent experience no fillers no artificial fluff just clean full spectrum goodness and delicious watermelon berry and peach flavor I keep them in my nice stand for those moments when I just need a little extra help relaxing and I love how transparent they are too every batch is third party lab tests it's you know exactly what you're getting and they put together a special offer for all success story podcast listeners all listeners can save 30% off their first order just head to cornbread ham.com slash success and use code success at checkout that's cornbread ham.com slash success code success for 30% off your first order of these amazing gummies if we look at all the different things that we sort of just touched on we spoke about credit cards and line of credits and mortgages and and leasing your car and credit score they're all damaging to various degrees but I think that some people would argue that there's a place for all of those in people's lives as well there's some there's some utility to getting out a mortgage if you or maybe there is I don't know I know that Ramsey has a pretty hard and fast opinion on on debt right so out of all those things is there a place for them at all in a an early person's life is there anything they can use strategically is there any point for example of trying to even focus on a credit score are all these things really just myths that are going to damage your your life your ability to afford things your ability to build wealth later on well I had these fears as well you know when when you dive into the Ramsey plan and it's like hey cut up all of your credit cards close them down and you know don't worry about your credit score eventually it's going to disappear and you're going to live life without it just fine these are things that you know when you're young you're scared you're like I don't know that's not what I've heard and then living it out personally when I cut up my cards in that class I closed the accounts I paid off the cards my credit score went to indeterminable within about six or eight months it was just gone and then I want to have to rent an apartment and they're like oh you'll just need a little more deposit and as long as you have proof of income and you don't have a criminal history you're fine I went oh okay so that was one myth busted I went to rent a car without a credit card or credit score and then went wow yeah we have a debit card policy you'll seem to add a little more to the deposit upfront but other than that you're good to go and I went oh wow another myth busted and then I went to get a house to get a mortgage and this was the big kahuda everyone goes well you need a credit score to get a house to get a mortgage and I went through a process called manual underwriting to no score alone and this is what they used to do back in the 70s and 80s before credit scores were rampant they would look at your act a real person would look at your personal financial history look at your income you do have stable income look at your tax returns look at all these things to go do you have the ability to repay this mortgage do you have a solid down payment what is your debt to income ratio and so based on all those parameters they gave me mortgage with no credit score and so that's when I realized that there really isn't a lot of hoops to jump through and my life is actually better having opted out of this system entirely and so that takes that's a big sort of a curve if you can make that curve you're going to be just fine but a lot of people they go no thank you I'm going to keep living the way I'm living or I'm going to do it for a tax deduction or my tax guy said I can write this off I'm going to do the lease and they're trying to finesse the system and it's burning so many mental calories that could be used for you know more beneficial things to your life and that's what I'm saying out there you can you can live a life in the system and you can build wealth but what I found is it's much more peaceful and simpler to just buck the system entirely when you look at bucking the system and getting rid of the credit score what it's forcing you to do is to not be over leveraged and to be more financially responsible because now like you're saying they're asking you to actually just reserve a little bit more of your cash for the purchase you're making which is just smart financial sense anyways because how do people get into trouble they just over leverage themselves I'm very curious in your opinion what would be the most predatory financial product that you've seen people get hooked into oh man there's so many it's like choosing your least favorite child you know there's there's the most predatory for different people groups so I'm going to I'm going to say for lower income folks the payday loan and the tote the note car lot those are the most predatory products out there because it puts you in an endless cycle when you have a 400% interest rate it feels impossible to climb out of that even if it's a low amount of debt it makes it so difficult to get out of that and so you're left re-entering that cycle over and over again then we look at the middle class the biggest wealth killer is the car payment and as cars have gotten more expensive you know the same thing happened with student loans we saw this the colleges said hey the governments are going to back the student loan companies so we can increase tuition because people will just take out more loans because the student loan companies are happy to give it because the money's backed by the government and so you saw this just spiral out of control and tuition you know blew past the rate of inflation the rate of the housing market everything it just exploded the same thing kind of happened with the car the car market post-COVID you know supply and demand issues we got to make the chips we got to increase the supply and car manufacturers went well we could raise prices and people will still take out loans because what's a $500 car payment versus a $350 car payment and people are already used to payments into their life so we saw the average car payment increase to over $700 now and people are just going well you got to have a car payment you got to drive something reliable you got to drive something safe and I'm like dude a 2003 Honda Accord is safer than some of the cars that are out there on the road to the okay that thing's a beast you cannot take it down and so we also have justified a lot of these purchases emotionally and psychologically truthfully because we just want them we want the nicer car we want the nicer house we don't want to have to budget and save up and pay for things with money we actually have we'll just put it on the card and then as you look at the younger generations they've really gone away from credit cards but now they're addicted to buy now pay later a firm and clarinet all these services because they go well credit card equals bad I know that 25% interest that's not good but would buy now pay later I can still have all the things I want now without having to need the money right now upfront so that's another addiction for the younger generations and then of course the credit cards one are the kind of the overarching nemesis from you know people in their 30s to people in their 60s were just so used to it you have 16 cards in your wallet now that you've justified for different purposes maybe it was a there was a bonus with points if you sign and then we see this new credit card act they're trying to pass that basically will crush credit card rewards and so now people are petitioning against this I don't know if you've seen no what is this and there's in so basically Visa and Mastercard have had the monopoly as the processors in its crushing business owners you know when you look at the fees they're charging business owners the extra 3% or 3.5% if it's an MX card that's why a lot of businesses say we don't take MX because they're not going to take a 4% hit on every purchase for the pleasure of you swiping your MX so what they're saying is hey there's going to be other processors that are going to enter the space you're not going to have the monopoly on it and that's going to hurt all of the reward systems that are tied to that so capital on discover all of these places that have the Visa Mastercard logo on it and so when you look at how they're able to devalue points at any time the fact that people don't even redeem them the blackout dates the mental psychology of what is 100,000 points oh it's a $10 gift card I didn't realize that it just felt good to be a chucky cheese getting more points and more points so that one overall is is I wouldn't say it's as predatory as the others but it's definitely one of the biggest killers because it's sort of a silent killer because the payment is low you're let's a $200 monthly payment on my credit card the problem is you're never going to pay that thing off making that minimum payment you've got to be putting a thousand bucks on that balance in order to make it go away forever and so there's there's a lot out there and the first two-thirds of my book breaking free from broke I systematically am going after the credit score the credit card the auto loan investing traps mortgage traps to help people go hey I know this is what we have all believed but there's a different path and here's what you need to know and I do it with a lot of research and also a lot of humor because this stuff can get heavy if you're not making jokes about it I think it's stressful because what you do is you're you're really just re-educating people on how to look at finance and it's really a paradigm shift from everything they've known their entire young and adult life people know this but everybody buys a house with a mortgage a majority of people buy a house with a mortgage and when you start to do the math and you start to figure out how much extra this house is costing me over 25 or 30 years it hurts like it really it's really really hurts it's a very uncomfortable conversation because then it forces people to understand that the financial system is not there to benefit them so they kind of have to take their own financial future into their own hands which isn't uncomfortable thought I mean you you have stats and you have data but if you don't use your credit cards if you have nothing on your credit cards there are credit card companies that will just shut your card down you're doing all the right things you open a line of credit you open a credit card you're not using it because you're not using it they're not making money off of you so then they shut it down oh exactly well they're always offering you well hey if you do good we'll give you more line of credit or hey hey your credit score could be higher if you opened up more lines here you go that's the marketing we hear the marketing is never hey before you make that purchase is it in the budget did you save up do you actually have the money and savings is it gonna derail other financial goals have you invested in your Roth IRA yet nobody's marketing do you like that they're going hey buddy over here I got some candy in the van you want some more line of credit and we're falling for it as adults we're going sure absolutely and it's it's not because we're dumb it's because we've been led to believe all these things in society misguided guidance counselors well-meaning parents they're all complicit in this crime of leading us to the source of of pain and frustration and as I talk about in the book the inflection point is realizing that it's not all your fault but it is your responsibility so if you just say it's it's not your fault then that says well I'm just a victim of life life happened to me but it's not all your fault meaning there were other things there were other sources there were other influences forces at play here but you're still the one who signed the dotted line for that credit card you need to take responsibility because if you're the problem you can be part of the solution I just want to take a quick break and thank the Havspot podcast network for supporting success story for the past two years now the Havspot podcast network has other incredible podcasts like my first million now if you are an entrepreneur or you are ready to turn your entrepreneurial dreams into millions you have to listen to my first million it's a show that is revolutionizing business podcasting it's hosted by sam par shan perry this is a Havspot podcast network original it brings you unfiltered conversations with self-made millionaires who actually tell you how they did it if you want to learn how Alex Ramose built his fitness empire or how Sophia Amaruso turned nasty girl into a fashion phenomenon these aren't just success stories they're the blueprints for your own journey to the top each episode breaks down the exact strategies and hidden opportunities that you can use right now don't just dream about your first million learn how to make it listen to my first million wherever you get your podcasts what do you advocate for when somebody is just graduated university college maybe they do have some debt because they had to take up money and then you know they didn't have a mom who worked for the university they had to actually pay it off themselves had to take us some student loans what's the strategy what's the 18 month strategy that people should should adopt so that they start to go down the right path are there any investments that do make sense is it about uh making a job and doing all these side hustles is it easier to be frugal or is it easier to make more money all these different thoughts i i know that i'm not spending money on stupid shit but what do i do next what's the strategic move in my career so that i can actually make money and live the life that i want that's a great question well step zero is stop borrowing money you got to stop the bleeding here we got to stop the source of the pain and once you decide i'm done with debt i'm taking debt off the table i'm not going to keep swiping that card i'm not going to go get more debt your next step is to kind of do a financial audit what is my actual financial reality what am i making what am i spending and the way you do that is through a budget it's a lot of people hate the dreaded b word because they go oh my gosh it's so restrictive budgets are for broke people or i don't make enough to budget and that's the most hilarious part is everyone can find their own reason to opt out but i realize until i did a budget i was going to stay broke and so listing out your income listing out your expenses and going all right i have to live on less than i make that is the singular goal this month and every month if i make 5,000 i can't spend 5,500 i can't do it that's what got me to this place and so once you do that budget you'll find out very quickly do i have margin to spare to start attacking my debt and hitting my financial goals or am i in the red do i need to create more income and cut spending and so there's a formula for this thing called margin that's what you're needing here you need margin we talk about this in business all the time profit margin so margin is really there's two ways to get it you either need to make more or spend less and i highly recommend both especially if you're in this if you're in this phase of life where you're going all right i need to get out of debt i need to get my savings in place i got to start investing my income and so there's a lot of ways to spend less right we all know you can hey let's evaluate the subscriptions let's do a no spend month let's stop eating out there's all kinds of things that take sacrifice like i mentioned what are you willing to give up you're gonna have to give up a few subscriptions you're gonna have to give up eating out you're gonna have to give up just willy nilly spending on you know little treats during the day you're going out for lunch the gas station runs whatever it is for you and then on the other side you got to make more and that might mean hey i can't just go get a 20% raise at my normal job i need to go get some side hustles right now and the best way to do that is to use the skills that you have that's gonna be your best way to make like good money fast is i'm gonna go do freelancing with the current skill set that i have you could also do the kind of gig economy jobs like uber lift instacart whatever it is that you can just sign up for today and go make money but some of the best money you can make if you're just an average person and you don't have a high skill set is just go dog sit dog walk babysit handyman work i mean you can charge a high hourly rate and be making 25 30 50 bucks an hour doing these things in your neighborhood without even having to go far and so that there is some great ones there on top of going hey how do i get my core income if i make $30,000 a year it's going to take more money to get out of a hundred thousand dollars of debt i got to go make $60,000 so what is the education the skills i need to level up in my career or even switch career paths entirely and once you do that you can start following the ramsey baby steps and getting out of debt and doing all the things you're just being more aggressive about your career to things a good thing and i think that i've had this conversation a lot and i thought about it a lot i think that if you want to be happy and fulfilled and successful whatever however redefine that in life there will be seasons of your life that are uncomfortable and unbalanced and i think that when you are in your 20s before you have a family that's why i love entrepreneurship because you can have this season of unbalanced amount of work that contribute that can eventually contribute to your overall life goals whether or not and it can be dog walking making a couple extra bucks there it can be if you're a great marketer if you want to run social media for somebody use you're selling your services on fiber or upwork you can do uber there's so many different ways to make money and technically all those are very entrepreneurial but it's just side hustles really that if you are living a frugal life and you're making an extra thousand bucks a month that adds up that really does add up and you can you can give you know 10 12 hours of your day to work to make that money so that you can be happy later on when you do want to spend time with your kids and have a little bit more of that balance and i think that that's also very important because when you look at your balance or you look at your budget you start to figure out how to create more margin you're also not wasting time like drinking on the weekends or going out parting because now you understand your priorities you understand this is a beautiful prime moment of your life where you have the time and energy to do all the extra stuff that's just going to contribute in the long run so it's just like a healthier lifestyle across the board i don't know if you when you talk to students there's probably a couple responsible ones but i would say that most people don't even think this way when they're you know 18 19th 2021 well absolutely well there you know there's the phomo and so what i like to do is flip it into jomo the joy of missing out the joy of going listen there there's like oh my gosh i'm not and there's the the joy of going hey i'm running my own race i'm being productive i feel a level of dignity and excitement about my future versus feeling like i'm just wasting my life away going to another bar on a friday night with my buddies who also don't want to make anything of themselves and so you got to really surround yourself with the right people a lot of times you know relationships and money have a strong tie and you become who you hang around and so if you a bunch of your friends want to stay in debt and make terrible choices to you know kind of prop up a lifestyle then you need to exit that friend group and find different friends and that's a difficult breaking away and it's not that you're better than them and that you're like hey guys i'm doing my own thing and you guys just just just go hey i've got goals can't make it and eventually they realize all right this guy's not a part of this anymore he's opted out he's running his own and they'll probably be intrigued by what you're doing they go dude you're like a different person how way you you got a new job good for you you got out of how do you do that and so i like to you know instead of ramming financial wisdom down people's throats i want to live my life in such a way that they go what's he doing i got to ask him about that now they're intrigued and they're more willing to follow whatever plan you're doing you know i see a guy with a six pack i have questions when i see a guy with a beer belly i'm not like dude how'd you get that body tell me more and the same thing applies when it comes to money and so you know Dave Ramsey for many years now has been building a business completely debt free the building that we're sitting in has never had a incentive mortgage on it because of Dave's principles and so i am inspired by the way david built wealth there's a lot of people that are inspired by you know robbera kiyosaki in the way he's leveraged debt to build wealth that's fine i'm not for everyone i'm for the person who wants to do this peacefully without the stress of being so over leveraged that your families on the brink of disaster i can't live like that i got a baby you know like you're i think life changes once you have a family and you realize i can't live life on the edge because of some tiktok i can't just put it all on black and roulette and hope for the best i gotta just do a budget put it put away money my 401k save for her any day and live on those that i make so you're talking about this through the lens of investing i see a lot with entrepreneurship because that's sort of my background but not everybody wants to be a a billion dollar unicorn founder not everybody needs to be i think i think kiyosaki is billions of dollars at this point leverage in total access for the average person who does not want to commit their entire life to building a huge real estate portfolio maybe that's not the strategy for you maybe you just want to have a couple rental properties maybe you don't even want to have a rental property maybe you don't want to headache maybe you just want to be completely focused on your family and work is just work but the majority of your life is spent with your family your kids your parents whatever everyone has different goals and i think that that's something that a lot of financial the quote unquote gurus miss they think that everybody wants to be like them everybody wants to have a thousand doors everybody wants to build a company is worth a hundred million dollars it that's not the case that's really really not the case and i think that's very important to to identify absolutely yeah there's there's been this weird shift in social media and in the financial space where they're like i'm getting calls on the ramsey show where an 18-year-old is saying hey i need a i want a million dollars by the time i'm 25 how do i turn a hundred thousand to a million by 25 and i just go why and they go i don't know just a question they just hear it on social media spattered off and they think well if i don't have a million dollars by 25 i'm a loser and grand cardone is out there going if you don't make 400 grand you suck and your life is terrible and like weird like you got to stop believing these lies like turn off these inputs that are making you feel less than and instead figure out what a realistic healthy goal is with a proper motive behind it and you will be much happier you'll be much more successful because you're not going to fall flat on your face because you were over leveraged with risk and so that's where i'm going i always ask and then what that's my favorite new question to ask anybody who goes i'm going to do this thing and i want it i need a million and then what you have you have you have 50 rental properties and then what well then i want a hundred and then what and you realize if there's just an endless chase towards money with no real goal and they have failed to understand that money is simply a tool it's a brick you can build a building with it you can throw it through a window but it's just a brick it's a moral money should not be the goal money is a tool to help you accomplish your goals and a lot of people get that twisted especially younger people who are just getting their advice from social media i think that that's it's very very wise um i think that a lot of people's personal north stars are being replaced by some like someone on social media is north star and it's not going to lead you to happy life because it's not even what you want so we spoke about you can make a little bit more money um you can take some side hustles you can you know play entrepreneur you have your nine to five and you play entrepreneur from five to nine or on the weekends and then you make semester cash you use it to pay down your debt a lot of people and you mentioned this before we even pressed record are interested in frugality and i think that frugality minimalism i think they're interesting concepts i don't think they're clearly defined and i don't think people really understand what it means and what it doesn't mean and i think that sometimes people take it to an extreme and you'll see again gurus on youtube they have a condo with a mattress on the floor nothing else which i also don't think is a way to live a life so what are thoughts what are your thoughts on frugality uh where do they play into this journey of building wealth how do you do it properly what should you spend money on what you should you not spend money on if you want to be a little bit more frugal or minimalist we found doing a millionaire study with over 10,000 millionaires that it's not they got there by being frugal it's not like well i say i didn't buy it you know a Starbucks drink and therefore i was a millionaire a lot of people go well Dave just wants people to skip Starbucks and all of a sudden i'm going to be able to buy a house no what he's saying is be intentional with every purchase and while you're trying to achieve a goal you need to make sacrifices and one of the sacrifices that a lot of millionaires have made is that they don't drive Lamborghini's you're thinking of people who are flexing on social media multi multi multi millionaires maybe billionaires but the average millionaire the person who retires at you know 62 with three or four million dollars in net worth which by the way is a great life you know people like what am i gonna three million is nothing in today's world or it won't be anything in 20 years says the guy who doesn't have ten thousand dollars in the bank and so when we look at actual millionaires we found that they drove older used cars not like 25 years old but a four year old toyota or Honda so not a luxury car it wasn't in the top three and not a brand new car and and the other thing they did was they paid off their mortgage they didn't hang on to a mortgage for the tax deduction they actually paid it off because they were they were able to free up that mortgage payment to then invest more or give more or accomplish other financial goals so you know it was interesting seeing that study going okay there's a correlation here between people who build wealth and people who are intentional with every dollar and they're not cheap skates this is not extreme cheap skates on TLC where a guy is you know basically like skirting the lines of ethics and morals to try to save a buck these are just people going I'm gonna buy quality now to avoid buying more stuff later I'm gonna research to find the best deal I'm gonna negotiate I'm gonna find the promo code where it matters and another thing they did is they paid cash now or they don't buy it now frugal people are not swiping their credit cards in debt they're not trying to leverage a reward system they're simply going okay I've saved up enough money to buy a thing that I really want and what you'll find is that they've won it's your own money that you worked hard to say for you're way more intentional with that purchase I would imagine if you did a study showing what are people buying on credit cards versus what are they using their own money for the stuff that was purchased on credit cards it's probably sitting in a goodwill by now or sitting in a closet with tags still on it so a great question ask yourself from my friend Rachel Cruz is if nobody saw this purchase when I still want it nobody saw it nobody saw the clothes out where the car I drive the house when I still want it or was it really just to show off a little bit and frugal people just aren't concerned about what other people think it's one of their superpowers is they just simply don't care about your opinion on how they live their life so I think it's very powerful like I'm in Miami right now so it's it's you're probably I think seven Lamborghini's driven by while we've done that I have no doubt I have no doubt and the watch is the people where and the and the money they spend on clubs and restaurants it's just ridiculous now that Miami is not the whole world but Miami is a Miami is like a social media threw up on a city that is the pet's way to describe Miami and I think that you have to be very cognizant of how you're being marketed to because people are selling you again the people are selling you how do you you know how can you build stronger relationships with your friends are selling you how can you look sexier how can you feel like you're being marketed to all the time and if you succumb to all this marketing the things you're buying are never really for you they're all for your friends or the people that don't really care about you anyways maybe yeah you buy it to flexing your in your little group but if you're posting that stuff on social media it's not for your friends or your peers or your family it's for people that you don't even know and it's just a very toxic culture I mean that that culture of social media buying these ridiculous brand names overleverging yourself of like a firm clarina all these buy now pay later and get and putting money into things that you can't even afford just to post it on social I think that's almost as toxic as you know the whole predatory finance industry it's just as bad it's really just as bad and I think that right now we have people that are succumbing to both so they again they want to they want to look cool but they also want to over leverage themselves to achieve that status and it's just a really nasty spot for people that are young I didn't grow up with social media so I never had to deal with it but I can only imagine what it would be like growing up now with all this pressure to look a certain way or to have a certain thing or thinking that success means you drive a lambo or success means you're always in a different country on vacation I think that it's tough dude it's very tough like I there's a lot of psychological trauma that must go on when people are exposed to social at a young age I think that's probably what drives a lot of this yeah and we're all craving deep down we're just like hey I want to put my head on the pillow at night and be able to sleep well and have the people in my life actually want to hang out with me and like me have decent relationships with my family have a functional family that I actually want to be around I want to have time to explore the things I want to do instead of do things I have to do and yet we pursue a path that removes all of that from our lives if we got to make that next bill because we're over leverage in debt because we got four hundred dollars in our car payment we got two hundred bucks in the credit card payment we have to go to the job we hate we don't have time for our hobbies and so what I'm all after is I want to talk about money so that we can stop talking about money because then we can actually pursue things that really matter money is just an obstacle holding us back and until we turn it into that tool to create a life that doesn't exhaust us we're going to be running in this rat race and the problem is when you run other people's races there's no finish line the goalpost will keep moving when you're going well I got to have what they have over there and the grass always gets a little bit greener on the other side you always want a little bit more and so contentment is a huge I mean that is that's the antidote is contentment and gratitude and by byproduct that is generosity when you're more open-handed and you're giving you're less focused on yourself less focus on what other people think about you and so that's something I turn to when I tend to get that way because I'm not a perfect human there's moments where you're like just I wish I had what they have I just got to go look at the life I have now like me from 10 years ago their mind would be blown if they could see where you are now the family that you have the things that you have the level of wealth you've built and so it's it's hard because we live in such a fast-paced society we're just so future-thinking we never stop to realize how far we've even come I want to take a second to thank Range Rover Sport for supporting today's episode now let's talk about tools that match your ambition the match the ambition of everybody who's listening today who has taken risks who has up-leveled their personal professional development who has tried to build their own thing everybody listening gets it there is a moment when the thing you're trying to build the challenge that you're taking on it finally starts to take off there is like this rush of excitement and possibility and that feeling that feeling that you get when you get behind of the wheel of a Range Rover Sport because we've all had that perfect drive when the road the car and you you're all in perfect harmony but that's not just by chance the Range Rover Sport is designed to make every drive feel that way and the Range Rover Sport is not just for impressing others it's how you feel behind the wheel it's how you feel when things are going the way they're supposed to go whether or not you're navigating city streets you're exploring back roads the Range Rover Sport combines refinement with a sense of adventure it matches your own versatile lifestyle with features like adaptive off-road cruise control you can tackle challenging terrain with confidence the dynamic air suspension always makes sure you get a smooth ride it responds to row conditions for optimal performance so from daily commutes to weekend getaways the Range Rover Sport is ready for whatever you have planned it's more than just a vehicle it is a companion for all of your journey so if you're ready to elevate your driving experience visit Land Rover USA.com and configure your Range Rover Sport today so it's because we always want everything instantly right so all society is trained us to have this instant gratification and I think that that again like you mentioned it rooms our long-term goal planning and our long-term thinking what was more personally for you when you look at all the different money rules that Ramsey teaches what do you think was the hardest one for you to incorporate into your life so if I'm thinking through the baby steps you've got you know baby step one thousand dollar emergency fund baby step two get rid of debt using the debt snowball method baby step three get the emergency fund saved up three to six months of expenses baby step four and that's 15% of your income into retirement baby step five save for college baby step six pay off the mortgage early and then baby step seven living give like no one and so now being in that baby step seven phase what I've realized is it's it's actually a difficult spot to be in because your body has been training to go all right I need to get real tight I need to keep my hands closed fisted I need to create that margin and so apart that I'm really wanting to get better at this year is on the giving side is going how can I be more open to the opportunities around me to give and be more open handed instead of going well I could use that to get a rental property I could use that to build more wealth or put more money into my daughter's five 29 college savings plan so what's helped me is having very specific goal for each area and that way there is margin to do those things because I pre-planned it when you don't pre-planned where your money is going when you don't do that budget it's easy to let the money just sort of float away into things that don't matter or just stack up a savings account and so it's been a fun exercise to go where do I have a flat tire in my life when it comes to giving spending saving and how can I set clear concrete goals so that that tire can stay intact and that's been a fun challenge for me but paying off the house when you look at just the sheer dollar amount when you look at a mortgage when you're looking at 200,000 300,000 it's you got to eat the elephant one bite at a time one bite at a time and so that's the making that extra mortgage payment when you can that was a that was a fun challenge but it was definitely the hardest for my wife and I because you're going this is a big mountain like I remember $40,000 in debt like I thought that was insurmountable and now you're looking at $250,000 on a mortgage going we're going to knock this out in a few years how are we going to do that but it's amazing what happens when you just have a focus goal you're tracking it you're going all right if we just make one extra mortgage payment right here we're going to pay it off this much faster we're going to save this much in interest and looking at that the amortization schedule on your mortgage seeing how much interest you're paying see how much you could save if you made an extra payment that lit a fire under us and I think it likes to find her under a lot of people to get rid of that mortgage faster yeah I mean if you look at the amortization and the total amount that you're going to pay over the course of your mortgage you could almost buy a second home yeah I mean most people now with interest rates where they are you're talking about paying an extra $300,000 on top of your mortgage to the lender as a thank you and that's why we recommend a 15 year mortgage a lot of people get up and arms go well I want the flexibility in the wiggle room of a 30 year and who can afford a well who can afford to give a lender an extra 300 grand that's insane and so I'd rather have that money in my hands to do better with it than making a lender richer to sponsor the next you know Taylor Swift tour when when do you invest where do you invest you mentioned 401k's that's obviously sort of the more traditional investment super super safe that's sometimes company sponsored and they do some sort of matching as there as well but what are some of the investment ideas that you think would help people so where do you put your money when you start to have a little bit extra you budgeted everything you know that you have some margin if there anything else you should put money into well I kind of see it as as buckets and as the buckets get full you move on to another bucket and so in baby step four when we say invest 15 percent of your household income gross income into retirement accounts that for a lot of people that would be a 401k if you're a traditional employer it might be a 403b it might be a TSP if you're a government or military and a lot of people like like you they're going hey I'm self-employed I guess I can't invest or I'm going to put my money in a single stock and there's a lot of great investment options for those that are self-employed freelancers business owners and at one example if you're solo or if you're solo plus a spouse is a solo 401k that's a great option or you can dump a lot of money into that thing with tax advantages there's also a set IRA that you can get if you have a bigger team and then as you expand the company you could create that 401k plan but there's a you know those are the main ones and then anyone with earned income can open a Roth IRA so you have a traditional IRA and then you have the Roth IRA which is very similar but it's using after tax money so you don't get a tax deduction on it but that money's going to grow tax-free and you can withdraw it tax-free you already paid Uncle Sam once so if that account that Roth IRA has two million in it that's like two million dollars of take home pay in your life at retirement and so those are the buckets we look at when it comes to retirement now when you get to that baby step seven mark you have a paid forehouse you can increase investing from 15% to 20 30 40 50 percent if you want and eventually if you make enough money you're going to run out of options when it comes to your traditional retirement accounts because the Roth IRA has a seven thousand dollar limit the 401k has the 22,500 dollar limit and so once you get above those as you start to really build some serious wealth and get your income up you can then go into a taxable brokerage account so this won't have the tax advantages of a retirement account but it's a great place to socket away money that you can use before retirement so a lot of people say hey I might want a retire at 50 and pursue something else well you can use this as sort of a bridge account to bridge the gap between 50 and 59 and a half when you can access those funds in retirement without penalty and so that's where I put my money I try to max out the 401k in a Roth I love anything Roth is my friend because I know I'm I got the variables in check I know that what the tax rates are now I don't know what they'll be 20 30 years from now there's also no required minimum distributions RMDs on those Roth accounts because you've already paid Uncle Sam when you have the traditional accounts Uncle Sam says hey don't hang on to that to your 90 we need a piece of that pie and so they require you to take money out of that account so that they get their share before you pass away and so you know when it comes to the retirement accounts I'm a big fan of the Roth IRA a Roth 401K or Roth TSP Roth 403B whatever version you have of that and then moving on to the taxable accounts and then a secret sort of one that's not talked about a lot is the health savings account and HSA and this is part of your health insurance so if you have a high deductible health plan and HDHP they come with NHSA a health savings account it's just like a normal savings account but it should be used for health expenses but what's cool about this is that once you hit a threshold usually a thousand bucks in that account anything beyond that you can invest just like you wouldn't a 401k and so you can actually build some serious wealth you know up to the maximum that's allowed to for contributions you know whether it's 4000 or 8000 of your family you can contribute more to invest there as well and what's really neat is that after I believe 65 years old you can use that money like a traditional 401k for anything now it's you have better tax advantages when you use it for health expenses because you get to do that tax free but it's still a great sort of bonus retirement account if you've run out of those other options first of all I don't think I've ever heard of an HSA and I feel like this is something that you probably encounter a lot there's all these different there's all these different financial products that people aren't educated on they don't understand how they work and what ends up happening is there's nothing inherently wrong with this but when it's happening is if you do make a little bit of extra money you think well listen I found a way to make some extra money I might be I might be good at making money now what are the chances I might be good at investing and they start doing stock picking and they start doing real estate and they start realizing and they start maybe they put 15 20 thousand dollars into into a startup that you know they're their nephew started and they oh gosh and they look at you just gifted your nephew 20 grand just know that they just you were not getting they look at all these different options and I think that one of the biggest things that I've learned as an entrepreneur is just because you're good at building business or just because you're good at making money say you're an executive in a company pulling in a couple hundred thousand dollars it does not mean you're a good investor it never means you're a good investor just by de facto of you to become a good investor you have to do it again and again and again and you have to learn how to do it properly and I think that when you make a lot of money you start to get a little bit of an inflated ego about well if I figured out how to make money over here I'm sure I can be effective over there and I think that that's when people start to lose quite a bit and that's when they make some really bad financial investment decisions which can actually ruin a lot of the progress that you've made in structuring your life and budgeting I mean like if you talk about people that basically lose their whole retirement on on poor investment and I think that's really because they're being a little bit too ambitious if somebody is a little bit riskier or wants to be riskier and you can tell them no that's a bad idea but what would be your advice for somebody that does want to play with a little bit of money in things that are maybe more high risk is it don't do it is it do your research first is it put it into a fund before you put it into into an individual pick what's sort of your advice for that person well the most fun way is just go to Vegas and just you know blow somebody if you got it that's the most fun you can have with high risk high reward but really when it comes down to it there are things you can do that I'm not mad at you for but you got to look at it this way could you put that amount of money on your kitchen table and light it on fire if that would give you a little pit and a stomach and that would hurt your financial world then you can't take that risk now if you're already investing 15% of your income into retirement and you have some fun money that you want to put into crypto or a single stock that's fine you know don't let it be a big part of your net worth don't let it be don't obsess over it the problem is a lot of people download you know Robinhood put some money into one of these 24 seven crypto currencies and then watch it with stress as it goes up and down and up and down and up and down that's not a peaceful way to live and you're not going to make money doing it the people that make money are the ones that view wealth as a crock pot and you were talking my Instagram gratification earlier we live in a world full of microwaves we want it now and we want more listen the S&P 500 which is the overall US stock market return 24% in 2024 that's amazing that's a mind-blowing return considering when I tell people hey if you put money in retirement over this long term you're going to make 10 to 12% that's been the historical average and they go where are you getting 10% that's not I don't get that I'm like I don't know what you're invested in but if you just a lazy investment into the overall stock market into a mutual fund or index fund would have netted you 24% in 2024 now that's not the average the average is 10 to 12 it might be down 20% this year who knows but over if you just put the money in consistently and let it sit there and don't touch it don't mess with the crock pot just let it cook then you're going to look in there 10 years from now 20 years from now and you're going to see it continually grow and grow and grow and the momentum that you get from compound growth will blow your mind it's difficult to get to $100,000 in an investment account but then getting to a million is actually easier because of the momentum you're building with compound growth 10% of 100,000 is 10,000 10% of $100 is 10 bucks and so you see that same 10% means a whole lot more as the balance grows over time and that's your money making more money which is that I mean I think Einstein said it's the eighth wonder of the world I don't know if that we can actually attribute to him but that's what I've heard on the go thank you net suite for supporting today's episode now what does the future hold for business if you ask nine experts you're going to get 10 answers bull market bear market inflation up inflation down honestly I just need a crystal ball but until we get one over 41,000 businesses have found the next best thing they future proved their operations with net suite by Oracle which is the number one cloud ERP imagine having your accounting your financial management your inventory your HR all flowing together in one fluid platform here's what makes net suite different it gives you one source of truth for your business you get the visibility and control to make quick confident decisions while others are guessing you're working with real-time data insights forecasting you're basically looking into the future of your business with actionable data whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions net suite helps you respond to immediate challenges and helps you grab your biggest opportunities and speaking of opportunities they put together the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning and net suite dot com slash scott clary this is the playbook for understanding how to use AI for your business the guide is free go to net suite dot com slash scott clary that is net suite dot com slash scott clary out of all the different sort of pushback that you get for sort of the Ramsey principles what would be the most common pushback what would be the most common thing that people say I have an issue with this particular principle and how would you address that man there's so many that choose from okay the biggest pushback why do you think that is though why do you think there's so much pushback against this it's just because that's not the way the people have been taught how to deal with money I think it's because the timeless principles that are so unboring have now seem to be outdated or like this is a dinosaur kind of mentality to have that you need to save her rainy day use money you actually have live unless you make get on a budget people want the newer sexier option and therefore the older ones feel like that's not for me and you know gods and grandma's ways of handling money just it's it's what Dave's been selling for 30 years and the principles haven't changed and it's not because he's outdated it's because they still work and all the noise you're hearing on social media is the stuff that isn't working but you don't really see the stories of people going hey man I gave that guy on my money for his get rich quick course and uh didn't get rich quick and here we are celebrating every day people who are following the Ramsay plan getting out of debt building wealth and so the biggest pushback overall when I see here here's the sentence I hear oh I like Dave but there's always a but and the biggest one is but I don't like that he's anti debt I think there's some debt that is good and that's where people get tricked up because you can justify almost any debt as good if you try hard enough and that's what I hear all the time well here's why it's actually smarter to keep your mortgage around here's why it's wiser to use your credit card instead of using your own money debit cards are dangerous man I never I've never felt like a bad boy in my life but when people tell me I'm such a danger to society using my debit card I feel really cool uh the credit score thing it's insane that he says you can't live without a credit score I've lived it I've heard countless stories of people who have lived it and so the mythology are basically around bucking the system is the biggest pushback we get is people say George we have no option we have to be a part of the system and the truth is there's a lot of ways you can opt out of the system do I still have a bank account yes I'm not on off the grid you know with just cash stacked in cans in my backyard I'm a person who lives in society who has an HOA but when it comes to the debt system there's lots of ways to opt out and there's not a lot of hoops to jump through in order to live without debt and anecdotally this is my experience you can't argue with that I found that I have built wealth faster with more peace by bucking that system of debt by not having a credit card by not having a credit score and you know I found that the the key to building wealth was my income days been saying that for 30 years your income is your greatest wealth building tool how are you using it whether you make 300,000 or 40 thousand dollars you can build wealth or you can be broke and we're seeing this increasingly happen we're seeing the stats and the headlines people who you know two out of three people making a hundred thousand dollars a year or more are broke living paycheck to paycheck so I guess it wasn't about income so when people complain to say why I need to make go make more money in my life would be better not necessarily because lifestyle creep exists you're in Miami lifestyle creep is real the more money you make the more money I get to spend baby the more debt I can leverage the more lines of credit I can have that's an exhausting way to live I don't think humans were created to just get more lines of credit to play kissy face with a bank I think we were made to contribute to this world to impact our communities to raise great families and debt is only going to be a hindrance in an obstacle whether it's financial mental or emotional when you are over leveraged psychologically you will never feel comfort and you'll never feel peace because in your subconscious you'll always feel that everything could be taken away at any moment I think it was actually can I think it was one of the guys who was talking about this but I thought it was such a fascinating idea like when you over leverage yourself even if you know even if technically you can afford the next payment deep down you feel like at any point this could be taken away because it's not actually mine and when you live that life it's always stressed and there's always anxiety and you can mask it and you can go about your day but it's not necessarily a healthy way for most people to live and I think that that's probably one of the that idea alone about you know being over leveraged in my life what happens if I lose my job then I'm going to lose my house and then now you're hitting Maslow's hierarchy of needs and how do I you know how do I take care of my family that's a lot of stress that's a lot of stress and I think that that probably is very unhealthy for a lot of people to carry around I don't think everybody is built to just handle the idea of them losing everything overnight and so I think that you had a mortgage it sometimes it can be unavoidable but make it so that however you structure your life you can take a couple hits you can lose the job and you're not going to be out on the street tomorrow and I think when you can operate from a place of just feeling safe and secure in my opinion everything improves your health improves your your mental health improves your relationship with your friends and family improve because if you don't have that peace in your mind it's very hard to do anything else absolutely my friend Dr. John Deloney who you may have had on your show he talks about this idea of solving for freedom that's what most of us really need to be doing because the problem is not you know the living paycheck to paycheck that's a symptom of something deeper we are living very anxious lives and debt is part of that I mean we've seen levels of anxiety rise we've seen record levels of debt rising every single year I think there's a strong correlation between those two things because debt equals risk risk equals stress that's the only way to put it and so when you get debt out of your life you're solving for freedom freedom to me is not being you know I see these tiktoks and they're like we're five million dollars in debt and we love it and they're like we have nineteen thousand rental properties and we're on a beach every day and I'm going behind the scenes when that camera shuts off I know they're dealing with a lot of problems they're dealing with a lot of stress maybe it's marital stress instead of financial stress who knows I've just never I've never seen someone with a great life that I want that I admire who's riddled with debt the people who have the you know the true wealth that's maybe invisible wealth you don't know it but that farmer's got you know he's got plenty of money and he's not trying to flex those people have the best lives they have strong relationships they love the work they do they're not worried about someone taking their more taking their house away because they own it and when you own it there's a few very there's very few variables you can control in this world but one of the ones you can't control is how much you make how much you spend and the stuff that you own and the more over leverage you are the less you own and the more you have to manage and deal and that's why like you said you don't have to own 20 rental properties to have a good life that's a lie that's been told to you on social media if you love real estate go for it and buy those rental properties and cash and move slow and do it the right way I don't have any rental properties I may never have a rental property I've a paid for house I have money and investments and I just want to be with my family and watch my daughter grow up and not be worried about trying to make the next million that's an endless goal that's going to have very little meaning at the end of it so I think redefining what success means for you and then following a peaceful path to get there that's all we can do as humans at the end of the day if you were going to say like listen if people read my book breaking free from broke and they can only take away one lesson from it what would be the most important lesson that you'd want people to walk away with oh great question biggest lesson I would want them to walk away with is that a different life is possible and I end the book with a chapter on hope versus cynicism I think most people feel stuck they feel broke because they have leaned into their cynicism too hard and within each of us there's a cynical person a person who goes there's no hope why do it why try this is the system I'm in whatever it's someone else's thing they have to deal with to get me out of this I'm a victim of my own life and the part you need to grasp every day which is it sounds hokey but the people who make it the people who are optimistic the people who have that hope those are the ones that actually take action and so you know we have this new year new me no it's new actions new me what are the habits you're going to build and one of those habits might just be a gratitude journal it might be I'm just going to wake up every day and not think the world is against me and life is just going to happen to me what are you going to do to happen to your life and we found out a millionaire study this is the stat that sums it up 97% of the 10,000 millionaires that we studied said that they feel like they can control their financial destiny now we can't control a lot of things in our life we can't control what happens to us we can influence our health and our money and all these things but they when it comes to their money they said I'm in control of my financial destiny it's up to me if I don't hit a goal I'm at fault if I hit the goal credit to the work that I put in it's not just this blind luck of I was born into a certain life and therefore I'm going to have the trust fund or my hope my mom works at the college so I can go for free you get to create your own luck and create your own opportunity and those are the people I feel have the best lives so it's it's far more than money but like I said earlier money is a tool to get there and right now it's an obstacle for most people and there's a way to get over that hump and that's exactly why I wrote this book to help people grasp that hope and go all right here's the tactical steps I can take to get there it's not this fluffy woo woo here's the hard things I have to do tomorrow in order to hit this goal that I said I want to hit yeah and I think that's listen is that there's a wide variety of people that listen to this show and some of them are highly successful and and I think that even myself sometimes because I'm in an entrepreneurial world and I talk to all these great people you think oh everyone must have money figured out and everyone must be killed and that's not the case I think that I think that the biggest issue is a lot of people don't have money figured out and there's a shame around speaking about it so forget that even showing up and flexing on social media I think that even if people aren't showing up and flexing on social media a fair amount of people of listeners of individuals who you know in your day-to-day life they may seem like they're doing okay but you know when they when they get off the phone or when they when they go home after work at the end of the day there's a million different stresses running through their mind because they've never had the proper financial education and understanding of how to sort of get out of this almost this negative flywheel of debt and stress so I love these conversations because not many people have them a lot of people come on this show and say this is how you build a business that can be a hundred million dollar business or this is how you you know this is how you invest strategically and you use tons of debt and then you'll you know you'll never you'll never have to pay tax again because you're gonna front load the depreciation on the house and then you're also gonna get this life insurance policy or against it so there's all these interesting ideas that work for some people that are in the point zero zero one percent of their field but the average person just wants to be happy and fulfilled and not stress about money and I don't think I mean you probably have stats because you do a lot of research on this and I know that Ramsey has done actual studies but the average person is not happy and not secure and not fulfilled and and basically I think wondering I don't have enough money now I'm stressed about my financial future I'm never gonna be able to retire like there's all these thoughts they just sort of circle in their head and I think that your work and your book and what Ramsey does very well is they open you all open up the conversation for the average person that just wants to feel happy and safe and secure and I think that more conversations like that have to happen not that how to build the next Facebook Apple Amazon Netflix Google but just how to operate through my day and feel like I don't have to do the job that I'm that I hate until I'm 90 years old because I think that stresses more people out absolutely if those money problems are living your head you're living your head rent free it's time for a change and I hope that book helps people whether they're trying to get out of debt or trying to build wealth more peacefully they're trying to figure out what's going on with those noise out there should I be doing this should I be doing this I try to just cut through it with a whole lot of truth and and hit them straight with exactly what they need to do where do you want to send people so talk to me about socials website obviously books to be available anywhere you can get books on Amazon deserve a special website for it as well so anything you want to drop and put it in the show notes as well absolutely yeah you can get the book anywhere breaking free from broke I've guy I actually read the audiobook out loud we did some really cool things with it I'm a musician so I added some musical touches some sound design to make it fun to listen to and on top of that we have a free live stream coming up if you go to ramsey solutions dot com slash live stream you can sign up for that Dave Ramsey will be a part of that I'll be a part of that that's going to be a really good time if you if you need a little boost a little pep talk with some information and tactical steps we're going to be there with that free live stream coming up and then ramsey solutions dot com is the place to go you can find all my stuff there my YouTube channel we've got episodes releasing three times a week I've got another podcast with my friend Rachel Cruz called smart money happy hour so if you like a more candid conversation around money and trends and pop culture with a lot of humor in there go check out smart money happy hour as well and then of course we have the ramsey show three hours a day take in real calls from real people I'll be hosting this afternoon with whether my friend Ken Coleman so feel free to call in if you have any money questions we'd love to hear from your listeners I love it all right last question out of all the out of all the insight wisdom that you've sort of accumulated over your life and it could be career wisdom it could be money wisdom however you want to take it but if you were going to leave your kids with just one piece of insight or wisdom what would that what would that idea be I think it has nothing to do with money it would be about character I would say character matters if you're a person of character no matter what success you find in life you're not going to look back with regret if you are a person of integrity you are kind you are generous with your time your talents your resources your money that's who I think as I'm getting older the people that I respect in life it's not about how much money they have it's about character and again if you have a lot of money problems it's just going to be harder to be able to focus on the things that matter in your life that help build that character and so if I was talking my to my my little one year old right now and she could understand me that would be the one thing I would say I don't care if you get all A's in school you know I want you to make good decisions and all that stuff but your character matters that's what will carry you through life and as a byproduct I think people find success