Gary Lipovetsky - Creator Economy & Influencer Expert | How to Build and Monetize an Audience

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It took me 10 years to build that to a business doing like maybe $3 million and then in 2012, in one year, we raised $32 million. So that was my first real like understanding of a business really well. Gary Lipovetsky's journey began with his parents leaving the USSR for Canada, carrying little but determination. Growing up in Toronto, Gary embraced the resilience, funding his education at the University of Western Ontario by selling toys on street corners. And then in 2012, I had deal find which was a competitor to group on. In one year, we raised $32 million. $100 million valuation on that business after 12 months. So that was my first real like understanding of a business really well. 1999, he co-founded menupalus.com. This grew into dealfind.com. North America's third largest group buying site, which they successfully exited in 2012. Gary didn't stop. He launched bestie.com and co-founded Valeria Inc with his wife, building a global influencer media company. Gary's success stems from hard work, humility, and partnership. His story is about turning adversity into opportunity, dreaming big, and staying grounded. If you have the motivation that there's no quitting, then you'll find a way. I believe anybody can achieve anything if they put in the effort. That's it. Welcome to success story. I'm your host, Scott Clary. The success story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network. HubSpot not only supports this show, but they support entrepreneurs. That's why it's such a huge fan of HubSpot. I'm very grateful for HubSpot for supporting the show because they help entrepreneurs. And as a fellow entrepreneur, I know it takes a lot to grow your business. A lot of audience attracting. A lot of sales. A lot of marketing. A lot of leads for it. A lot of channel management. A lot of content. A lot of long days. Late nights. A lot of weekends. A lot of wishing. There wasn't easier way. But there is. With Breeze, this is HubSpot's new collection of AI tools. It's easier than ever for marketers, for entrepreneurs to attract audiences, to increase leads, to score customers, and to close deals fast. Which means pretty soon, your company will have a lot to celebrate. Visit HubSpot.com, slash marketers to learn more. So I was telling you about my face. So I did this treatment called NeoGen, a center wellness. And I did it the first time. And they put it at what they called, they think, 0.7. Setting. It wasn't that bad. And I was read the next day. And now they went and they crank it up to, instead of 0.7, they cranked it up to 1. So significantly, you went, what does it do? So it's this laser. And it apparently like injects plasma or some kind of energy into your skin. And so the owner of the spa, the owner of the wellness center is Laila Center. And Laila Center is also the owner of the school that our kids go to. That's down the street. That's down the street. Yeah, now from where you live. Yeah, that's correct. So I see the gym that you go to every morning. Yeah, it's all the down this street. Yeah, you're going to meet me there on Saturday at 7am. We're going to train. Yeah, you're going to walk over. I walk from my house. You can walk from here. You could have walked here, actually. I could have walked here. It's like an hour. An hour to walk from your place, starts 10 minutes to walk. To yeah, 15 maybe. I walked to, I walked to the gym. It takes me 20 minutes. I thought it was like a little bit of a track. No, I just took my motorcycle because I needed a, I needed a little break. I needed to ride my motorcycle. I love my motorcycle. Anyway, so I did this facial thing. And so yesterday, my face was a complete mess. Now it's not as bad. But Vleria has me on all kinds of oils and creams and everything just to heal me up. You've been on a health care too. I haven't tried, man, because I'm getting old. I'm getting old. And if I don't take care of my health, then unfortunately, my family will have to take care of me when I'm sick. So at my age, it's not that I'm getting old, but at my age, I have to take that into consideration. And I love my family. As you know, I have three sons. I have a young wife. I just don't want to, I don't want to be a burden on them. I don't want them to see me in bad shape or like sick, when I'm in my like 60, 70s and 80s. I don't want that burden on them, because that, that fucking sucks. When did you, um, when did you, you know, something that I noticed a lot, because there's exited entrepreneurs that come on the show a lot. And they're always trying to figure out like, what's next in life? And what do I do after I sell my company? And one thing that comes up again and again, and actually, I didn't expect Shane to bring it up, but Shane brought it up. Um, a good friend of mine. Oh, you know, you know, Yosef? Maybe. Yosef, he sold boxy charm. He lives, he has a good friend in Fort Lauderdale. So he also is like on a massive health kick. They're trying like peptides and they're like red lights on and everything. So it's interesting how all the people I know that have been very successful now at a later stage in life are taking this very, very seriously. But it's, it, I think that even like, you know, you're not in bad shape. When you start a dis journey and neither were any of them, but I think that's a big thing that entrepreneurs deal with. They so they focus all in on their business. And they almost push everything else to the side. I think you can afford to do that when you're young. I think when you're in your 20s and 30s and probably early 40s, you can afford to do that. But then one day it's like hitting a brick wall. What's going to happen is when you push yourself that hard as an entrepreneur, especially guys who have had exits, which means that they either got extremely lucky or they worked really hard. Most of the times they worked really hard and luck is a component of it. What ends up happening is that they neglect their health to such a degree. There's a lot of alcohol sometimes. There's drug abuse, not enough sleep, not enough exercise, terrible diets. And so what happens is eventually you just hit a wall and you don't even notice it. One day just hit you like a ton of bricks. I'll do you? I'm 34. Yeah, you're, dude, you're so young. You're super young. When you're super young in the like when we're talking about health overall, real problems start happening in like mid-40s. There's apparently like 66 of some age for men where there's a lot of complications start happening. But if you prepare yourself beforehand, then the probability goes down. So what do you, I mean, if you were going to go back to when you were 25, 30, what would be the things that you wish you would start it earlier? From a health perspective, I mean, you can always talk about mindset and life lessons, but because I think this is most interesting because I think this is something that there's there's sort of like circles of content like entrepreneurs always talk about like how to make money, how to raise money, how to sell, how to market. You know, have like these health influencers, but then there's now there's a lot more crossover. So people care about like Brian Johnson, people care about like Dave Aspery and like people care about all these health because they want to they realize that they're on this journey. They don't want to be at a shape and broken and overweight and barely able to run up a hill with their kids at 50. So now they're trying to figure out more stuff that they can do. So what are the things that you think people should start to care about? Besides the lifting, running gym. What are the honestly, man? Like in terms of like what to do, like the option to do, what do you think actually makes it so basic, man? Just don't eat shit. Just eat the right things, go high protein, cut out gluten, go like cut out processed carbs, replace it, like replace processed carbs with vegetables. If you can, maybe a little bit of white rice that has zero nutritional value, but I mean, if you just want to get that fix, no bread, no nothing like that. I don't eat shit, don't like look at the like actually look at what you're eating, look at what you're ingesting. Super high protein, you know, I'm big and thread meat. I think red meat is great. A lot of people, I think the old kind of school of thought was that it's bad for you if there's too much of it. I don't believe that. I can eat steak every day, steak, eggs. So look, it's diet, it's lifestyle. I would say literally zero alcohol, zero alcohol. I was never a big drinker, but if I could go back, I would just completely say no to it, even the casual drink, even like the drink that be polite, just complete zero, just complete zero and just like concentrate on sleep, like sleep is a huge component of it. I just feel like I'm in decent shape now, but if I would have really taken it as seriously as I've taken it in the last like six years, then I would be a beast right now. I think the biggest issue that I have is I was never somebody who looks for off alcohol. I never really cared. I would use to drink a lot in college, university when you're having fun, and then you start to drink casually on the weekends, but now I find I notice. And maybe I didn't notice before because I didn't feel like my day-to-day was such a cognitive stress. Like when I jump into a conversation, if I had a drink before, I noticed that I can't pull facts as quick. I noticed that I'm not as sharp. I noticed that my ideas just aren't as well-thought-through, but if I get good sleep, no drinking, I can go into conversations with people that have lived in their field for the past 30 years, and I can have a semi-intelligent conversation with us. But I notice a big difference, and it's actually scary when you try and show up as your best self after drinking, it's almost impossible. And if you pay attention to the, if you pay attention to that, it's actually quite scary what it does to you. So I've almost sworn about it. Drinking is one thing, but again, it almost seems trivial and it almost seems like it's common knowledge, but you have to sleep. Like sleep is a huge component of it. Sleep eating. Look, to me, the things that when I felt, so the biggest shift that I felt in my health when I started doing, it wasn't even lifting weights. It was really two things. It was the combination of coal plunge and sauna. When I started doing that on a daily basis, I felt more alert. I just felt better overall. And then the other thing that I was, that I did was when I cut out gluten, that had a big shift just in terms of cognition, just overall health, positivity, less stress. I mean, look, we went through, we went through pretty, I guess, pretty stressful period, like recently, in moving from Canada to America. And that has to do with moving the business, immigration, moving the kids, different school, different countries. So there's a lot of complexity and moving more complexity than I thought there would be. And that was a very stressful time, because I did it with kids. Yeah, you did it at the site. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So I mean, it's complex, like selling a house there, buying a house here. Like it's, there's a lot of complexity just learning about what the house going on in America versus in Canada. Like all just there's a lot of nuances, both culturally, legally, like, socially, there's just a lot of things. So yeah, it was a very stressful time. And I felt that stress. But once I started doing sauna and coal plunge on a daily basis, it really shifted. Like it took, it took maybe a month or two. And then I felt a real shift that I was just calmer. And I don't react to like things that would potentially trigger me like a challenge of work, right? Something comes up. And I don't go into like fighter flight, a more common even, because you, I think it's because you're resetting your cortisol levels, right? Like your cortisol would spike when you do a coal plunge. I'm not an expert at this stuff, but I've heard this before. So now when you deal with all these semi stressful things throughout the day, like your baseline has been reset to a degree. So if somebody sends you an email, you know, something stressful is happening, you just don't react the same way. You just, you just feel like you just feel like it's not as big of a stress or not. It's not as big of a deal. It definitely is not as big of a deal as it used to be. So that's a, that's a big, that's a big plus. But just going back to your, see that? Those are knee pads. Those are like armor in my knees, but it's weird. I know that boots are intense too. Yeah, the boots were pretty crazy, but I have to do it. I have to do it because if I fall off that bike, oh man, that's my, I think like if you ask me what my biggest fear, I mean, there's sharks. I'm pretty scared of sharks. I don't know why it's just like you're in their element. It's that I, I think one of my biggest fear is not, it's not the ocean so much, but it's when you jump into a lake and like something touches your feet and you don't know what it is. That's resting. Yeah. That was trust me out too. I'd be less concerned about a lake because I feel like a lake is contained to the immediate wildlife. What's, there's nothing in a lake I feel that could really kill you. Whereas, you know, in the ocean, there's probably a thousand different animals that could fuck you up. I was with, I was with, they had a boat day with the kids and we stopped in this little like, they call it a lake, but it's not a lake. It's like part of the ocean, but it's like a little enclave. And my boys wanted to jump in the water. And I said to the boat captain, I said, hey, there's no sharks here. He goes, well, they're haven't been any for like a really long time. I said, okay, so are they okay to jump in? Yeah, they can jump in. So for sure, there's no sharks. Well, I mean, not for sure. Well, not right. It's funny. I was in my neighbor's house and he has a house on the water like on the, on the ocean and my house. He goes, yeah, like, it's really nice living on the water. It's a good thing. I don't have small kids anymore. I'm like, why? He goes all because there was an alligator. He came out of the water. I like, came out of the water. And you know, if you have little kids and Floridians are just so cool, they're like, yeah, you just got to be careful about to leave your kids around outside because the crocodile might come and take them. That's fucked up. And it's fucked up. I mean, that's actually, you know, outside of the fact that the homes on the water are starting at $10 million and up the nice ones. I think, so I, I, I use that as an excuse not to get a home on the water. Exactly. Because the $10 million is the crocodile. Yeah, I don't want the crocodile. That makes sense to me. Gina is scared of someone, like, like a home invader coming in on a on a ski do or something pulling up behind the on a sea do on a sea on a sea, do whatever it is. Yeah, I say, do us all the other stuff. Yeah, on a sea, do you wouldn't get too far out that water on the water? And and and breaking into your home through the, you know, I met, I met a billionaire recently. I met a billionaire recently who lives on one in Miami Beach, not too far from here. And he lives on the water and he's like on this row of other billionaires and other homes are like $50, $80 million and they're all lined up and this and that. And he keeps talking to me. Yeah, so many like robberies and this and that because it's guarded from the front. He's got his gates and everything, but from the back, yeah, it's like late at night, you, you can swim up to his house and go out there and rob him, right? And I'm just like, why wouldn't like, why wouldn't there be a boat in the water with like a security guard? He was going to, he was going to pay for it. I'm like, I don't know. Like get together with your other billionaire friends. Like there's 10 of you guys here. Just put a couple of guys in the water and like don't worry about it. He's like, he said, no one's going to pay. Can you believe it? That's how safe people feel. I think parts of Florida are. No, that's how cheap billionaires are. That's like think about it. Like you have so much money through to find that kind of money. And I had a house on the water. I wouldn't like even bother asking my neighbors. I would just put a dude in a chair on the dog. He'd be sitting there all night. I wouldn't care. And I'd pay him whatever it took. That's so funny. No, I would do. Maybe that's why they're rich because they don't like they're, you know, they're kind of cheap. There's probably a couple other reasons, but it's all a lot. Yeah. By the way, they also don't buy Starbucks every day. That's the other thing. Oh, that's the key. That's the key to well. If you stop buying Starbucks, you'll become a billionaire in three days. Are you going to tell me your story? We have to go into your story, your story, your life. I need your origin. That's all right. Yeah, that's a part of it too. So this is what happens. This is what happens. When you know the people that you bring onto the podcast, but I think it's better. I think it's more fun. I mean, it's probably not the usual format of your podcast. Because guys come on here and be like, listen, this is how it, let's just have a lot of guys that come on here. Just wrote a book and that's it. I haven't written a book. I haven't written a book, but I'm talking to a literary agent to get a book written for Valeria. She should. I'm trying to figure out one right now. I've been trying to figure out for myself. The process is a lot. It's difficult to get an advance or a decent advance. And then after you get an advance, I mean, it doesn't matter who you go with. It could be Harper Collins leadership. It could be Simon Schuzer. It could be Penguin Random. It could be somebody who's not like a household name, but they don't really do anything to sell the book. It's still all on you. Well, that's why they prioritize people like yourself who has an audience. People like creators, influencers who have audience because they know you're going to sell the book. But still, like, I mean, there's still a strategy to become Wall Street Journal or New York Times best seller or get on Amazon best seller list. So it's not easy. It's just not easy to do. It's a lot of work. And I don't and so let me let me add context while I'm saying it's not easy because easy is subjective based on the return. Like if it made a lot of money, then it would make a lot of sense for me to put a lot of energy into it. But I don't think it makes a lot of money. So I think that for an author, outside of James Clear, Atomic Habits, Malcolm Gladwell, Seth Godin, whatever, some of these really prolific authors, they make money. But for the average person, the right to book, I don't think you make a lot of money on that process. So you have to have a product on the back end of it or you're going to use it to get on more stages. That's what it is. You have to know why you're, you know, you have to know why you're doing it. And I don't think that I have a clear reason for me is to why I'm doing it right now because there's no product on the back. And you have to build an ecosystem around it. I think it's credibility. So I have a theory about you doing a book. Okay, let's go. What's the theory? My theory is if you do a book, first of all, I actually think you will get a deal. I think you will get prepaid because the my understanding is that the publishers are prioritizing people with audience because their speculation is that you're going to sell through whatever you need to sell through to justify the advance. So I don't think you've, maybe you've tried, but it's very recent that I'm doing that. Okay, so I don't think you've had a literary agent actually go and pitch you. So my understanding of the process is they'll put together a literary agent will work with you to put together like a pitch. So you don't have to write the book at first. It's just it's a really brief pitch. And they'll actually pair you with somebody who's experienced at writing these pitches, right? So you write the pitch, the literary agent goals, they go to like between five and seven big publishing houses and they pitch you and then they get responses. Sometimes you'll have to meet with them, sometimes not, but between getting a really good pitch written and getting and showing your audience and the engagement of your audience, I actually think you will get a deal. And I think the literary is going to get a deal. But beyond the financial benefit that you would get from getting a deal, and you and I both know someone who has a deal. I'm not going to say their name, but you and I both know somebody who makes money on an ongoing basis with this book. I actually spoke with them recently and he, you know, and I hear a smaller audience than you and he got an advance and he was at decent advance. Furthermore, I just met somebody else with the fraction of the audience that you have. So they have an audience on Instagram and the hundreds of thousands and they just did a multiple six figure book, the old paid in advance. So I think you're, I think you're discounting it. But beyond the financial, whether or not I can get the advance, you still have to think about what's, what's the ROI outside of the initial $100,000 you're going to get? That's great. So the ROI is the credibility. So I think the keyword is credibility, the credibility that you will get having a book, having an actual physical manifestation of your knowledge, of your thoughts, of your philosophies, I believe that that is the key. And that's probably one of the big, you know, that's one of the motivating factors that why we would do it for Valeria. I think with Valeria, first of all, I think she has an amazing story to tell. She rarely talks about her origin story, but like she was born in like very difficult situation and she grew up in a very difficult family on it. But it's interesting. It's yeah, and it's like we're not holding it back on purpose. She's just not ready yet. She's not ready to talk about it. So I don't even know if this book of her book would be like biographical in nature or something else. I don't know. It's she's playing with a few ideas. But just getting back, getting back like to you and Valeria, it's like that book is credibility. People do book tours. You're just look that differently when you're an author. And the thing is if you hit like a New York Times best seller or any best seller list, it just even boosts it even further. So what's the utility for you? The utility for you is that as much as you have amazing guests, all of a sudden you're an author will now the caliber of your guest club. And I'm not suggesting that they're low. I'm just saying they'll be even higher. You'll get even more, you know, and then with bigger guests, you get bigger numbers with bigger numbers, you get a podcast, you know, deals, you get this. So I think it just lifts everything. And I think that if you can do it where even if you don't get a cash advance, even if it's a wash between like. Well, the thing I was thinking about because again, I have spoken to a literary agent. And when I'm talking about recent development, this is like he was texting me two days ago that he was pitching Harper Collins leadership. So they write the, do they write the picture? Oh, okay. So you already have all actually, I wonder for you this. No, but it's still it's, it's good information because I also want to understand. I mean, this is sort of my first exposure to it. So I'm just, I'm just taking what she's telling me face value and just running with it. So it's good to know that this is sort of the process. But what was I going to say? Yeah, no, even if I get an advance, that money is going to go right back into the marketing of the book. Cause I think that well, then my mind, you don't need to market the book. You have a platform. Yeah, I don't know. I have no idea. Yeah, the book is going to be right here. You're going to have it right here and all your podcasts. 100% and everything that's going to be here, all your shelves will just be the book. Right now, Tony Robbins is getting free advertising fan. I got James Clear over there. Okay, but you need to have, you need to have your book over here. Yeah. So that's that's next. But I do want to find a way to market it strategically. So whether or not it's going to be like a podcast tour or of course, yeah, I think look, I think it's a, I think it's a big plus. I definitely think you should do very right. So she comes on to my show and we'll talk about her show. I know. Yeah, all that shit, man. Yeah, of course. That's the way it works. That's what this business is, man. It's, it's this constant, like flow, constant movement. Yeah. But it's, it's a lot of work to write. And then I know people get ghost writers and whatnot. But I like, I actually want to put some energy and effort into it. Or maybe you just write the first draft and get an editor. Again, I have to figure out all this stuff out. Scott, but what's not a lot of work? I don't know anything anymore. That's not a lot of work. You know what's not a lot of work? Like getting money for nothing, like inheriting money. That's not a lot of work. Anything that's, anything that's worth doing, anything that will result in, you know, whether it's financial success or what other successes there? I don't know. Other kinds of success, fulfillment, you know, speaking of other kinds of success, you know, this trend that I keep seeing is that people who have had exits, they want notoriety. They want to be famous. They want to become creators. You and I have talked about that. Yeah, because a lot of people come under the show. They come out of the show. Yeah, it's people that come under the show. Outside of people that I know personally, I'd say there's like three main reasons. I'd say one, they wrote a book, yeah, two, they had an exit and they want to accomplish the next thing and the next thing and most people's minds after an exit is notoriety or fame or influence. Or it's people that have listened to the show and they're like, how do my interviews? Those would be the three avatars people to come on. Yeah, they do want fame. It's interesting how people want fame after they have so much money. But to me, to, okay, so to me, the only logical play for the fame post exit, I guess it depends on the size of the exit. If the exit is such that they can literally do nothing in the rest of their lives and just like live off of the interest, then the only then at that point, they just want more. They want to accomplish more. They want to stay in the game. And so the only reason I would see that they would want or need fame is to be able to become either like a BC or a P venture capital. You don't even need fame to do that. You don't, so you don't put it helps because it makes the, first of all, you get deal flow. You get much more deal flow, like way more deal flow. Because then like when you look at the, you know, Kevin O'Leary's of the world, he gets unlimited deal flow and he can pick and choose the deals he wants. So without that fame, you don't really get that. But then, you know, but then, okay, so I agree with you until I would agree with you until I found out the Kim Kardashian's private equity firm had trouble raising capital. Yeah. I know that story very well, which I think is interesting because, okay, so now you have deal flow. But then what, what's the missing link? So there has to be, there has to be fame, but there has to be competence too. There has to be, I know, but there's a difference because Kim herself is not a specialist in this field. Kevin himself is an entrepreneur. He is a, he is, he is an investor. So he is already that thing. And the audience amplifies it. Entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs who have built and sold companies, they're already in that world. So the fame will help the, the fame in that realm will magnify that and will help them get deals. Whereas if you're a Kim Kardashian, if you're an actor or an entertainer of some kind, and you have that fame that does not make you a good investor, of course, which is interesting because I know that she hired an incredible team behind her, but because she is the, the figure head for it, I think she's having trouble because people equate the success, the potential success of that private equity firm with her level of competence in the field. Well, they sheet her firm their investment into a trough that hot sauce, which is good. I think it did, okay. I don't know. I have no idea. I have absolutely no idea. I just want to take a second and thank Cornbread Ham for supporting today's episode. Now, Cornbread Ham CBD gummies have been this really nice addition to my wellness toolkit. I don't use them every day just when I want to win wine after those extra busy weeks, but they're perfect for those moments when you want to take the edge off and just find your balance, really just shut off from work. What makes them special is how Cornbread Ham crafts them. They only use a flower of USDA organic hamplants. That's the best part for the purest, most potent experience, no fillers, no artificial fluff, just clean, full spectrum goodness, and delicious watermelon berry and peach flavor. I keep them in my night stand for those moments when I just need a little extra help relaxing, and I love how transparent they are too. Every batch is third party lab tests. It's you know exactly what you're getting, and they put together a special offer for all success story podcast listeners. All listeners can save 30% off their first order. Just head to cornbreadhamp.com slash success and use code success at checkout. That's cornbreadhamp.com slash success code success for 30% off your first order of these amazing gummies. Why do people want to become famous? You built an entire community around people wanting to build audiences. So what is the average? What is the average person? You're talking about creator method. Looking to achieve when they want to become famous. So there's three buckets. I just talked about this with our community. I have weekly calls with them, and I do someone on ones with them. So there's three buckets. One is a hobbyist, and typically it's a hobbyist who has who's just independently financially stable. They may have a spouse who's wealthy or they may come from a wealthy, you know multi generation wealthy family. They want to create a outlet, and money is no longer like a currency for them because they have money. Their family has money. They don't need for anything. So for them, it's just like they they want to contribute to the world. They want to create a outlet. They want to build a community. It's pretty like it's a pretty virtuous pursuit because they really have no intention to make money. They don't care if they do. If they do in this, you know, the people kind of in this first bucket. If they do it so bonus to be able to go show their family. Hey, look, I just kind of like the same avatar as somebody who sold a company. No, because somebody who sold a company went through a real hard trip to get that done. I'm talking about like somebody who married well, and they just want to build an audience. Yeah, they just want to it's a hobby. They just want to have a hobby. They don't even have anything to prove. They just want to build a community. They want to have I see it all the time. Like I see it. People who join us. They and I like I don't say it in a negative way. I mean, they they're financially sound. They have no need for money, but they want to make a difference in the world. They want to have a voice. They want to they want to help. They have a cause. They have an art that they want to share with the world. So that's kind of one group. A second group are people who want to replace traditional employment income. So somebody who can make, let's say, I don't know, like on a very basic level, let's say an esthetician who would make $60,000 a year wants to make $100,000 a year being a creator who can set her own hours. I was going to say his own hours, but I don't know any male estheticians, but you know, she could set her own hours and she could have the independence of being an entrepreneur, being a creator, doing brand deals while creating community and, you know, having the benefits of the experiences that she's going to get. The fame. It's nice. It's pleasant, right? So that's kind of the second people who are just trying to replace employment income. And also how and that's more stable than employment income, because you don't know when you're going to get fired. It's so funny to you say that is so casually. Like in your mind, because you live in this world, you just said creator income, which is really just solo-pronership in my mind. I think being a creator is a solo-proner. You just said that creator income is more steady, more reliable than employment income, but that is such a flip from what most people believe. I mean, like most people will leave that they're in their nine to five and they haven't brushed out into solo-pronership, creating, trying to monetize what they know, trying to monetize a brand because they feel like I can tell you why, but remember that I have to tell you about bucket three. Yeah, because otherwise I'll forget about bucket three. Okay, do bucket three, but that's just telling you that first. Yes, no bucket two. Yes. So in bucket three are the people who want to hit the grand slams. Those are the people who want like they it's they want fame, but they want the money that comes with it. They want to make millions of dollars a year. They want to have they want to be celebrities. They want the experiences. They want the cloud. They want the respect. They want the fans. They want it all. They want they want to build generational wealth becoming a creator or an influencer or a celebrity, whatever you want to call it. So those are the three buckets, right? The hobbyist who is already financially sound and they don't need the money, but they want to share their love of whatever with the world. Okay, and that's great. Number two are people who want to replace employment income with to your point solar entrepreneurship. And then there's bucket three, which are people who they want to go for it. They want it all, right? And it's a lot of the times when I have my like, so what we do with like with creator method, we also have like consulting clients. So they come to us and they kind of go aside and we do consulting with them. And I start the conversation like these are the three buckets. Which one are you? Tell me which one you are because the advice that I'm going to be giving you and the processes and the mindset that I'm going to build in you is going to be based on your desired outcome. It needs to so your actions need to map your desired outcome. Otherwise, it makes no sense. So if you want to go if you're in bucket three, okay, then here's your strategy. I have a question just between the I understand that. But does bucket. People going to bucket three. Most of them do not feel like they should just reevaluate their north star and actually end up in bucket two. Like do you feel like it's actually viable for most creators to say I want to build a hundred million dollar creator brand. I believe that anyone can get to bucket two. Yes, that's bucket, but the hundred million dollar is bucket three bucket three requires. It requires. I want to say talent, but it just requires like a lot of sacrifice, a lot of sacrifice. It really does. It requires like endless amounts of dedication being able to sacrifice being able to say, you know what? I love my kids and it hurts my heart every time I have to like be away from them. But in order to achieve it, I want to achieve that I have to do it. And that's like a constant struggle that Valeria has where it's like Valeria could literally be gone all the time. If she said yes to the things that she could say, you know, she could potentially say yes to that would drive her career even further. But she has to say no to most things because she doesn't want to be away from the kids. And so it's this constant Valeria, you should go to this me telling her and she says no, I want to be at home with the kids because at the end of the day, she's still just a mom. She's a normal mom. Not when I say just a mom, I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I mean, she's a mom. That's a priority. Yeah, she's done as a priority. And I always have this like debate with her and I say to her Valeria, you will do more for our children by continuing to achieve and setting the example for them. Then you will by sitting home with them. But then she's like, I'm going to miss it. I'm going to miss. They're going to be older. I'm going to miss it. And she's right to a certain degree. So it's a matter of finding a balance. But like going back to this whole bucket three thing is I believe people can achieve it. But the amount of sacrifice they need to to to to make is is off the charts. But I think bucket two is very very attainable. You said something about how you thought I said it casually how it's like I said that you know, creator income is more stable than employment income. Because with employment income, you're relying on essentially your one client, right? You're your employer. But with creator income, you are you're essentially you you have multiple sources of revenue, whether it's, you know, brand deals, whether you have a subscription plan, like a subscription that you offer, whether you have a book, whether you have there are there podcasts, a podcast. There are a number of ways that open a podcast is still it's still advertisers, right? It's just a different kind of medium and a different cohort. But yeah, I mean, so yeah, so like bucket two, I believe that it is it is more stable. I believe the income is far more stable because it just takes a little bit of time like to become an employee, you don't have to build the asset of a personal brand, you don't have to build a community and audience. So you can go directly from whatever it is you've learned how to do into being an employee and the the distance between knowledge acquisition, right? And employment, it's fairly small. You get your diploma or degree, you get a little bit of experience, you can go and monetize that in the form of employment right away, which is great. And I'm not knocking that. But then in order to get the equivalent of employment income, you have to go through this period of time where you're being both an employee and in the evenings, you're trying to get scale as a creator until you hit that inflection point where you can say, okay, now I can switch over into being a full-time creator. It's that pain that people don't want. And so that's what stops a lot of people. It's that pain. The other thing that stops a lot of people from pursuing this is their own uncertainty. One of the reasons that Valeria succeeded and I don't like taking credit for my wife's accomplishments. But I'll take credit in this case because when she started, I told her you're a star. I told her that your bucket three, I hadn't established buckets in my mind yet at the time, but I said, there, you are going to be a household name. You have the ability to do it. You have the talent to do it. And you know, you're, I said there, I said, your life documenting your life will be your art. And she, she calls me on that. Every now and then she reminds me, remember you said that, that shit to me. Yeah. And so like that. And I said to her, you don't have to do it. You don't have to do it. But when I saw that first $10,000 check come in and then I were kind of, I'm weaving, right? I know you're weaving. That first $10,000 check came in. That was unexpected. And I can get that story in a second. But when that first brand deal came in and it woke me up to what she was doing and I looked into it and I was like, listen, if you want to do this as a business, we can do this. And you can go all the way. And I'm here for you. And I'm going to support you. And we're going to build a business. And you know, I said, or you don't have to. You really don't have to. Because when I met Valeria, it never crossed my mind what she would do for a living. Like it, I didn't even think about it. Like looking back now, it's probably a responsible with me. I just, I met a, I met a girl. She was amazing. And you'd already, when you met her, you'd already had a ton of career success. You would, I wasn't sitting out of deal find by that time. Yeah. It was right. It was, I met her at the same time. I literally, on our first date, I was taking calls with the buyer, with the buyers, the people who bought the equity in that company. Yeah. On our first date. So I had to step away and deal with that. So it was like, happening right at the same time. But yeah, like I basically told her, I said, like, you don't have to do this. You don't, like you don't. But if you do this, like you, you know, I just, I gave her that confidence. And what I'm seeing right now is that a lot of people who are, a lot of people want this, more people want this now than they did back in 2017 when Vlaire started. I mean, it's really exploded. But you know, I tell it, I can see that what's holding people back is the fact that they don't have that support. They don't have that person or a group of people or pure group telling them, no, no, no. Well, because most people, I mean, like if we're going to be candid, most people that are, are looking to be creators, can not just not worry about income, like they have to worry about it. Vlaire had that advantage. She didn't have to worry about so that I think that's that is a huge factor. So I'm just curious if you could, if you could even help a creator set benchmarks in their journey so that when they start to create and they start to see some traction, what should they look for as like a positive KPI that they're on the right track to eventually quit? So because they'll be doing this, you know, from five to nine after the trial, they'll be doing it on the weekends. And I think that the biggest question mark that they'll have, like you mentioned this is and the biggest pain that they'll have is I don't know when I should make the jump into full-time creator because I still have to pay rent or my mortgage or feed my family at the end of the month. Okay, so okay, remind me, what's the first question I want to answer the first question? The first question is what markers or KPI's should a creator look for that they're on the right track? So when they're first starting, their KPI is creating content and posting it. So here's what happens, they go in, they'll do three posts and then let's start analyzing data. Well, the algorithm didn't like this one or this didn't perform as well, so I shouldn't do this for a minute. No, no, no, none of that. If you haven't started yet, first thing you need to do, okay, the first thing you need to do is you need to establish what am I interested in? What am I good at? And what is there a demand for? And then you take those three things, okay, you you figure out what your content buckets are, you do research, you figure out what your formats are going to be, okay, we could be one format, it could be two or three to begin with, you look at other successful creators and again, once you've done the cross, once you've done the cross reference analysis of what you're good at, what you're interested in and what there's market demand for, you then go, you set up your content plan, you start executing it, executing on it, the KPI to look for is the creation of the content, make 300 posts because you have to do the reps, you have to build a muscle, you have to get confident in front of the camera, whatever format you're doing, if you're doing fashion, you have to be comfortable showing what you're wearing, you have to be comfortable talking, you have to be comfortable if you're making food content, making your food doing whatever, whatever it is you're doing, really the achievement is the creation and deployment of the content and that's what a lot of creators they don't do, it's like going to university and on day one, sitting in class after an hour, saying where's my degree, well I don't have a degree, you haven't done the work, so that's really what it is, the first thing is like your first several hundred pieces, so what do they do instead, because that to me is like when you're saying that it makes so much sense because this is what I did with the show, yeah, so now I have a nice little set, I'm recording with nice little cameras, this took me six years and about almost now I was looking, we're almost at 700, they published podcasts, I'm short short ones, some interviews, but yeah, but so, so a lot of people that make the mistake of expecting what you have in a month after making 10 reels, so I've never seen, I've never seen any other industry like that where people are looking at it and saying, you know, I've had creators tell me I've been doing this for two weeks, you laugh as somebody who does this yourself, yeah, but that's, but that's to a novice at the beginning who's never done this, that's their expectation because they're looking at your day 5,000 or whatever, day 3,000, you know, that's what they're looking at. 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I had somebody this morning, text me and he started a podcast and he's a great interviewer and he started a podcast, they did a partnership, so he's the one doing the interviewing, and his business partners won't do any editing and the thumbnails and the posting and whatnot, and he said, Scott, I need some advice, we've been doing this for about six months, and I'm not seeing the traction that I want on YouTube, and my business partner is about to, like, throw in the towel, and yeah, there's some things that you can tweak, but he's like, well, when I look at Tom Billiou or Tim Ferris or Simon Steven Bart, Steven Bartlett, I'm like, well, how do I get there? And I'm like, well, there's two things that you have to take into consideration. First of all, all those people you just mentioned, Steven Bartlett was worth a couple hundred million dollars when he started to show. Did he really? Yeah, because he had a massive, massive Instagram, I think, marketing company called Social Chain, and I think he their sold it, or it was doing like over a hundred million dollars in revenue. Tim Ferris had been an angel investor in like Facebook and a whole bunch of other early companies. He's had a ton of capital to burn, and I know Tom Billiou sold Quest for over a billion dollars. So these are all guys you just reference that have unlimited, virtually unlimited resources to spend on growing this show, and also, simultaneously, Tom Billiou and Tim Ferris have been doing it for well over 10 years. So they not only have way more capital and resources than you. They also have a time advantage as well. Right, but the way you're explaining it almost makes it seem like it's impossible for somebody without those resources. The way I'm explaining it is don't benchmark yourself against people that have had billion dollar edges than start a podcast. Benchmark yourself against somebody. Actually, the example that I like for a personal professional development is Mel Robbins. So Mel did not have a big exit, and she built a coaching, consulting, personal brand and podcast, basically from just hard work and putting in reps, which I think is there's no there's no wrong way to do this. But if you have a billion dollar exit, that's not how I would measure success against that person. I agree, but the layer is the same way, right? We started from nothing. Same as you, right? So yeah, and that's the big disconnect, I think, with a lot of creators, to your point, I can't give him good advice because a good advice is staying the game longer. That's the only thing. And I stay in the game, and it's it's not only create the content, whether it's in podcasts or kind of more of the short form creators that I work with, it's it's get better at your craft. So it's yeah, it's stay in the game, put in the reps, put out the content, but you have to you have to be kind of introspective, look at each piece of content, watch your own piece of content and ask how can you get better? Join a community like mine, join whatever, you know what I mean? Like do whatever, take the steps you need to do, but constantly always, try to improve, you know, watching Valeria, and I look, I really admire her work, I think watching Valeria do this over the years, she's always trying to improve herself. This girl in hails books like two a week, where she's always trying to get more information and she's constantly trying to figure out what can I do to what actions can I take to provide more value to the audience, to my audience, to my community, what actions can I take? And so that's the thing. So it's in addition to putting in the work and making the content and putting it out on the platform, hundreds of pieces of content, whether the long form or short form, it's also how do I get better at it? What are the actions I need to take to get better at it? Because if you're just putting out like people are complimented like I've done my 300 posts and I'm not getting any traction, okay? So then you got to do things to improve your output. I think that more people have the issue with doing the 300 pieces than doing the 300 pieces and then seeing and testing and looking at data points as to what's working and what's not. I think that that I think that after you've done the 300 pieces, it's pretty easy to convince somebody, okay? So if it's not working yet, then why don't we understand, you know, retention on your long form YouTube videos or what's getting retweeted the most or look for signals because there's going to be signals after they're going to be data and there is, but I've gone away from like sheer data and analytics, which I used to, I still am. I'm very keen on data analytics, but I'm more about this, the qualitative aspect of connecting with audience, right? So now when I look at like a piece of content that Valeria does, I'll look at it and as opposed to like, I'll look at still at the retention graphs and click through eights, like let's say on long form YouTube videos, on short form, I'll look at whatever data is on the sites, but I kind of look at it, I try to look at it more artistically and I ask myself, did you connect? Like did you connect? If it's long form was the conversation interesting? Like was it interesting? Was it a genuine, how do we gauge that? Because that's from your gut. You know how I gauge it? Yeah. So all of Valeria's podcasts, here's what I do. When I'm in the gym, I listen to her podcasts on my headphones, right? I don't now I used to do it when I trained alone, but now I have a trainer, so I don't do it, but at some point I listen to Valeria's podcast. If I find myself turning it backing out of it, turning it off, because it's not interesting to me, then I feel like I'm a pretty good judge, even though I'm not the target demographic of millennial females, but if something keeps me engaged, I think it will keep a lot of other people engaged. Have you noticed? Have you noticed the correlation between you being able to pay attention to it and for me, again, there was a bit of a disconnect because I'm not on the millennial female, so there are some topics that I'll like I'll turn off early, but it'll still it'll still hit it'll still like over index roll area, but most of the time I know like most of the time I'll listen to it like before I know how it's performed and I'll guess it. Yeah. And you feel like there's like do you feel there's certain strategies or topics that are discussed that wouldn't just work in podcast format, but to transcend short form video tweets, blogs, newsletters, like other certain things that are sort of universal content rules. I don't think there's any universal content rules. I think content is based on the individual. So for example, what makes a good podcast for Valeria? for Valeria when she goes when she just when she stops trying, when she stops trying, when she basically just sits and like she has good chemistry and it's just like two women just talking and just having fun. When she's having fun, I can see I can watch the podcast podcast and I can see if she's enjoying herself. If Valeria is enjoying herself, the podcast does better because that energy translates. That's why when you and I started this, I'm like, hey, what's up? Like I'm casual about it because people want this authenticity. They want to see fun conversation. That's so funny and scary for a creator because everybody, I mean, this is like probably a left brain, right brain thing. I'm sure some creators are cool just feeling the audience. For me, that's a horrifying thing. Like I want, I want the perfect formula. I want the what's the first question I ask and then how do I open it up and then how do I and I always prep a first question. And I know that there's other creators out there like me because I'm not the only person that you're very you're very analytical. You're treating it like a business which you should. But at the same time, it's like you got to remember that there's isn't an art more than it is a business. The business of this whole thing is things like brand deals, you know, analysis of the technology, understanding algorithms. That's the business side of it. But it's the art that people buy. It's the art that people want to consume. People don't necessarily want to consume if we're talking about a podcast episode. This heavily scripted perfect that they want to they want to connect, right? So it's it's the product is the artistic value of your content, right? The distribution and monetization. That's the business. But what I'm suggesting is don't bring the business into the content. Leave the business where it needs to be behind the scenes running things. And that's why Valeria and I I feel continue to we had success and continue because I'm always telling her like stay in the content. Stay in that zone. Connect with your guests. Connect with your audience. Like let me deal with the shit that's and some of that stuff. It's not all shit. Like, but it's stuff that has to be dealt with, right? It's it's the mixing of the two that that's such a tough it's a so for somebody who again does these interviews where yet it's completely dependent on the relationship and how well you measure the person you're interviewing. It it's still too ambiguous for somebody to to listen to this and to take home and to include into their own content. It is I think it is too ambiguous of an idea. I think there has to be because I'll give you an example how to make a less ambiguous. So a very easy way to make podcasts a more real and more authentic is you move them from zoom and riverside and virtual to in person. Sure. Very very easy, but I mean that's a that's a big thing that creates a much a much deeper conversation. But like I don't know how to just how to shoot the shit with somebody I've never met before. I mean Joe Rogan is a conversationalist. He's good at it. But Joe Rogan speaks about every topic under the sun for three hours. So I'm trying to and this is a different kind of format. So does that law of of being a creator first in a business person second apply to a format of podcasts where I'm trying to deliver the most value to the audience in the most concise period of time or should there be some guardrails on it? Look, I'm not a big fan of guardrails, but maybe the type of content that I'm close to, which was various content. It's not as clinical, I think, as the content you have, but that you create. But here's the thing. Your podcast you're trying to get out from people the value of how they did it. You're trying to understand the character traits that people have that led them to success, right? But here's the thing. And I'm curious to see your opinion on this to hear your opinion on this. The traits that make entrepreneurs wildly successful. I don't believe is their ability to analyze data. I don't believe it's their ability to be really good at accounting and to know how to deal with lawyers and to know how to deal with the IRS. Yes, those are all very important things, but it's their ability to motivate people. It's their ability to, it's their charisma, right? And so when you have a conversation with me, if I'm one of those guys who has that kind of charisma, then your audience, like, let's say in this episode, for example, they may not be getting not yet. We can get into like technical things, but learning about the human being and what it takes and the type of charm and charisma and how to motivate people. The really big huge entrepreneurs, right? And even the ones who have a lot of sex, as it doesn't matter, it's their personalities that did it. And so when someone's watching this and they're trying to say, if they look at me as a successful person, if they consider me a successful person, then they may take from this as like maybe it's his charm. Maybe it's his charisma. If they feel that that's what they're getting from me. But if you look at guys like, you know, if you look at guys like Steve Jobs, like Steve Jobs, he was skilled in many things, but probably his biggest skill was getting on that stage and announcing products. It's getting people excited. It's getting people excited about the future. I don't disagree with you. I don't disagree with you. I actually think the charisma is a huge part of this and being genuine and authentic, which I mean, those are kind of buzzwords that everybody uses now. And you can say you're out there, even if you really aren't. But truly just sort of letting letting your guard down and just having a conversation, I do agree that that will create the best content that will motivate the most people. I think that I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that it's very hard for people to architect that environment where somebody who they just met, especially in a podcast format, is going to be comfortable being themselves. Have you ever like hung out with new people where when you meet, like let's say it's a guy, right? You need to do it. You hang out and you guys just click every, yeah, 100%. Right. So do you think that, okay, so when you and I met, you and I had that. Yeah, I know. You know, we went out, we met for a launch, we started chatting because there wasn't motives, motives, fuck up everything. So the reason why this podcast is a content, that's what we do here. Okay. So this is really applicable to me. And there's going to be people in the audience that also want to create great, great podcasts and great interviews style podcasts. By the way, I'm not thinking about the audience. You said, you said, I know right now when I'm talking to you. Oh, no, and I don't I ignore the fact that this will be seen by other people. So that's yes. But the issue is most people come on here, don't ignore that fact because they have an agenda. They have an agenda and they have motives because they want to promote something a course or a book or so the best conversations I have actually are with people that don't have an agenda. Yeah. See, I don't have an agenda. I know, I just want to hang out with you and you do your show. Yeah, yeah. No, so that's it. But that's that's something to be said for like how you structure your show and the guests that you bring on and whatnot, because if you do bring on somebody that has a book launch in three months from now, like they will have talking points, which is not it's not an issue. There's going to be no, there's a lot wrong in sight, full of something wrong with it. But know that it's going to be harder for them to just be super candid and be themselves. So I want to I want to make a comparison to this. So when I met Valeria, she very politely turned me down. She very politely turned me down. Okay. And I thought that was really nice of her. I thought that, you know, a young, beautiful woman, such as Valeria at the time, a lot of women would be far less kind, you know, when turning a man down. What did she say? She was just very nice about it. She was just very polite about it. I invited her on a date. And instead of saying, no, I'm not interested. She said, Oh, well, you know what? We have a lot of mutual friends. Why don't we all go together? That was her way of saying like I'm not romantically interested, you know? And she was just really polite about it. And so at that point, I saw how nice she was about it. And quite honest, I thought, you know what? She's a great person. She probably knows other women. I was 38 years old. And that's thinking, I'm gonna, I'll just be friends with her. So here's the point of trying to make I dropped everything. I dropped my agenda of trying to date her. And we were talking through BBM at the time. If you remember BBM, we were chatting through BBM. And it just happened because I completely dropped the agenda and the intention of trying to date her. I dropped all romantic pursuit. And I was just cool and friends with her. My point is is that I still got to the objective that I initially had after I dropped it. So I feel that and I don't want to, I don't know, like, you know, with your podcasts, it's like when people come with an agenda, I feel if people dropped the agenda and they just behaved like they would when they're meeting a buddy because the way you and I are talking right now, it's the same way, bro. If you remember, the same way we talked and we met that first time like a year and a half ago. And so if now I thought to myself, what would I achieve by being on the show and having people see is that is just that. It's like, I don't have an agenda. And therefore, you know, you, you eventually gain favor with people because they're like, this guy doesn't want anything of this guy just being himself. But that's, so I've just adopted that completely across the board. Well, if I could only, if I could only give, you know, I could make people spend 30 minutes in a room with you telling them how to conduct themselves on podcasts where they come on. That would be good. But that's not the real, so I'll tell you what I do to try and accomplish this. To try to calm people down is all the like, you know, yeah, it's just not pitching you. Yeah, basically it's, it's, it's not easy to get in the calm down right away. But if you, if you bring up the stuff that they care about in the first 20 minutes, they're like, check. I've gotten like, the audience knows the name of the book. The audience knows when it's coming out. Now we can just have a conversation. So I know what you're saying. So it's funny because Valeria had this one guest. I don't want to say her name. People know who she is. No, I'm never going to say these people's names, but some people are just, of course, I'm just, I'm just saying like to your point, Valeria had a guest on a show on her, on her podcast. And she said, it was basically like an hour long pitch about this person's whatever the person was selling. And she goes, it goes so bad. And the thing is is that what that person did, first of all, the episode, yeah, it's a problem person. We're not going to like, we're not going to not publish an episode because like try to get out of that, right? And so we published the episode and completely underperformed, which we knew it would or cool, whatever. But even worse than that, what that person did was make it so that Valeria has no intention of inviting that person back. Valeria, people, other people who have podcasts will look at that and be like, that person as all they care about is pitching their stuff. So I'm not going to have them on my podcast. So people are so short term thinking when they come on a show like yours, whether it's like I just like people don't understand that every time they're in front of an audience, it's their opportunity to build their personal brand. Instead, what they do is they go straight into monetization mode. I want to monetize this opportunity. I want to tell you that I have creator method and it costs this much and you go to creator method.com. And that's where you enroll. And if you enroll, you get this and this and this and this. And you know, but I'm not sitting here doing that because it's like I would rather take this opportunity to connect with you to show like who I am as a person and just be be normal and just have a normal conversation because it's your it's the building blocks. And I can tell you that when people do come on to creator method, because Valeria is really the celebrity on this. If I feel like think about who's a celebrity, it's Valeria. And God bless her. I'm happy. But what I'm saying when people come in to when they come in and they actually become members and they meet me for the first time on our first group call, they're not sitting there being like, you know, I want to Gary's like, I want him to tell me how to be a creator. They're just so happy because they've now seen me over the years enough times just being normal and being in my element. Anyways, the whole point is that whether you're a creator, whether you're a publisher or an author, if you're coming on a show, that's your opportunity to connect with people. You're never going to sell more by just going in and doing hard pitches, go buy my shit immediately versus just establishing rapport and just being normal. So the whole point I said about with Valeria is that it's when I dropped that that was the lesson that I got is like when I dropped that pitch of like we should date, you should, you know, when I dropped that. And I was just me. I was mean without the agenda of trying to make her my girlfriend or my wife. And that was it. And then magic happened because as soon as that happened, if you equate her to like some, you know, when someone's trying to sell something here to a buyer, that's it. Your guard is down and you're like, you're actually, you know, anyways, I could go on and on. I think I feel like I'm getting a little, you know, I'm going in circles here, but you get my point. It happens to me a lot. I just see that and I don't think it's always the person's fault. I think that they get bad advice. I think that PR companies do give a lot of bad advice to people that are trying to put their name out there. I don't think that I'll give you another example since we're on it. We're going to sort of like, you know, kill some golden calves around PR and personal rent. So when people write a book and their PR company says, you don't want to do any PR before this date. And then between this date and this date, you're going to do 20 podcasts. And then the books to the launch on like, you know, the day after you do those 20 podcasts. Keep in mind that what's happening is all of your fans that are going to find these podcasts on YouTube are going to listen to one of the 20 because they're not going to listen to 20 of the 20 and they're going to get one of your podcasts at one point in time. Maybe they do go by the book, but then they're going to forget about you for the next three years. And that's I think that that's a stupid way to build buzz around a book. I think what actually makes sense is to be omnipresent, be always putting out a little bit of content. Don't block off all those YouTube videos and all the podcasts that are going to come out into like one, two to four week period and always be just, do you know why PR PR firms suggest this to their clients? I have no idea. Really? I have no idea. Well, I mean, because when you engage with them, when you, I'll tell you why, because when you engage with them, let's say I'm an author and I pay a PR company and I give them, let's say, $50,000, right? Modest PR budget to help me promote my book. I give them, let's say, 50k, okay? I give them 50k. They're like, okay, here's your advice. You're going to do this. All of the stuff that you just described to me, the PR company tells the author, this is what you have to do when you're going on these different shows and podcasts and all this because how is the author measuring their success? They're measuring success because they're also short term thinking the author and they're saying, I paid these guys 50 grand. They gave me the right. She only put me on in here, here, here and here. And what did I get on the back end of it? What did I get immediately on the back end of it? Right? How many books did I sell as a result of following their guidance? So they're paying something, they're paying, let's say, $50,000 and then they expect to sell certain amount of books as a result. So the PR company is giving them short term advice to go straight to conversion to get in front of audiences and try to convert as soon as possible to get them to buy your book, right? What would PR companies, if you engage the PR company and said my long term goal is from three to five years, I want to build a personal brand that anything I do or almost anything I do, anything applicable that I do, I can present to a large group of loyal people who trust and believe in me. That's a different game. If Valeria right now after doing this for eight years, you know what I mean? There's a reason why I know there's a reason why I would even do hundreds of brand deals a year is because the brands understand that if you Valeria wears a certain thing, it's it's these are people who have been with her for four or five eight years, right? Yeah, but I would even make the argument that if if I was writing a book and I went on a major podcast once a month for 12 months before the launch of the book, my audience who and I spoke about a different topic on every single podcast, I would have I would tap into 12 unique different audiences, those podcasters audiences, and I would sell books from each of those 12 podcasters and I would have a net increase the sales, I would have like more sales doing it over the full year, being one podcast a month on a different topic, just being a thought leader, then doing 15 podcasts in one month, because you get and you're not going to watch 15 podcasts in one month, but you could hear me speak about well, different topics. I hear what you're saying. Look, I think you have to build the asset, which is the personal brand, not create a sales funnel. If every time you're trying to create a short term sales funnel to pitch whether it's a book or a pair of sneakers, when you're creating short term sales funnels, they're very they're like they're just they're too short-sighted. They're they're not going to be that profitable because the cost of the media rarely is less than the profit that's achieved from creating a short term sales funnel, whereas when you create a long term brand, whether it's a personal brand or a consumer brand of any kind, whether it's a product or a service, then you're creating like look at Louis Vuitton. They don't even need to advertise. Everybody knows them. Everybody kind of understands the brand messaging and they understand what they get when they buy it or Nike like, but look how long they've been doing it. People are people are what's happened in society is because of the internet and because of social media, everything is short term short term short term short term short term, but I think the true success comes from leveraging the technology that everyone's trying to get short term success through. They're trying to get short term success on and leveraging it to create long term brand value, whether it's personal brand or consumer brand. Okay, so this is actually a good full circle moment because I think about 45 minutes ago, I asked a question about when should people leave their job and become full-time creators? People should leave their job and become a full-time creator when they're making enough money to do that. I mean, that's a pretty simple. So what is that? Do you think that's going to be three years? I think that's going to be five years? One, I mean realistically because I think a lot of people want to create and then they burn out before they have any significant monetization. It's not a time thing. It's, it's, what? If you have the motivation that there's no quitting, then you'll find a way. Right? You know, when we moved to the United States as an example, I just like to burn bridges on my way. I like all the bridges in the back. I like to burn them. When we came here three weeks into it, we said, okay, we're staying. We're going to move to the United States. And a couple of months after that, I sold the house where he goes, why do you sell the house? What if we go back? I said, there's no going back. When my family left Ukraine, when they left Communist Ukraine, and we moved here when I was three, and we moved to Canada when I was three years old, the circumstances were such that there was no way back. There was no way back because you can't go back as a Jew leaving a Jew leaving Ukraine. In the 70s, can't go back. That's the whole point. And because of that, my family had no choice but to push until they survived, until they thrived. Right. And so if you're asking me the analogy going back to being a creator, if you are, if you've put it in your mind that there's no way back, you have to succeed in becoming a creator, then you're going to become a creator. That's it. That's the bottom line. This all comes down to fortitude. It comes down to how badly people wanted and what they're willing to sacrifice. And how much work they're getting put there willing to put into it. I firmly believe that anybody who puts in enough effort will at least become financially stable. The only thing that might limit them, if they're putting in all the work and they're doing all the it, like they're putting in the effort and they're sacrificing, the only thing might be just their natural talent, their natural ability. But I still believe everybody can develop that. I believe that too. I believe if you're like a complete dud in front of the camera, you can't be on the camera more. I'm not like when I started my podcast, which I do now, not like you, I do it as an amateur, I do it very rarely. I do episodes. It's only when I meet cool people, which by the way, you're going to be on my podcast. It's when when I meet people, I like words before I was doing it once a week. To me, I hated getting in front of the camera. And it still makes me nervous when I get in front of the camera, though, well, you've been doing it for years now. My podcast, my own, not your podcast. You've been on, yeah. And every time I don't like it, but every time I force myself to do it, because then the next time I do it, it's a little easier. And every time it's a little easier, but I still get nervous every time. And that's the thing is like anybody can develop talent if they just put in the work, just like anything else. I don't believe, I believe everybody is inherently like talented. I believe anybody can achieve anything if they put in the effort. That's it. That's my, that's just my belief. And that's why when I'm talking to my kids, and they say, I can't do something. I always tell them, I don't even, what is that word? That's a stupid word. Can't, what a dumb word. No, there is no can't. There's only try try. You have to keep pushing. Anyways, that's my thing. You wanted to talk about my origin story. I did. Yeah. And I mean, like, this is like a completely, I don't even know if you'll publish this episode. It's so out of a box. It's not that out of the box. Is it not though? So it like started out of the box because normally how I, so I have this like framework that, listen, so I have a framework that I always test with podcasts. And I try different things. And I learned from people that are sort of, you know, two years, three years ahead of me. And I bring some of those learnings into my own show. But then I also, I end is a great, a really great creator lesson. I also, every once in a while, I'll try something completely random and out of the blue and just see how the audience reacts to it. And I think that's important. And I don't even think this is that like left feel. It's still an interview style podcast, nerding out about creator economy. This is not so left feel, but I'll try different things all the time. And I think that's actually very important. And it won't be like, it's a small test. It'll be a small test. So I've tested doing like some solo episodes. I've tested doing some solo episodes on like productivity and mindset. And then some solo episodes on a success stories of really famous entrepreneurs, just me reading kind of like through their life and what they've done. Just testing. But people like overthink tests. They get so blocked into this one kind of content. And actually, Larry did this very well. She, she moved from vlogs to podcasts. And that was a major shift. It was a major shift, but it was very intentional. It was very intentional. But I test with like very little emotional commitment to that test. And I just want to see if it is any. So you know what mistake I see creators make when they're testing new formats. They'll do it once. And they'll say it didn't work. Don finished test over. Well, I think that's just that's incorrect. Because I'll give you an example. And so, Valeria, for the longest time on her short form content in Reels, once she started creating Reels, she was doing her fashion. She was doing like a, you know, she had a handful of formats. And then we started her podcast. And we started taking clips from her podcast and putting them as Reels on her Instagram. And they did really poorly. And so Valeria's response and our CEO, we have a CEO who runs Valeria Inc. The media company who manages Valeria's career. Thank God, it's not me. But I get in there every now and then with my two cents. But when we started putting those clips in, which was like very different than the fashion and the other stuff that Valeria did and continues to do today, they would fail. So if her average video would get 800,000 views, these were getting 100,000 views, 150,000 views. So, you know, internally people were like, okay, well, you know, it doesn't work. I'm like, no, no, no, no, you have to condition the audience to it. Just because it doesn't work now doesn't mean it's not going to work. You have to keep going. And the reason for that I insisted that we keep going with it because I said, we're going to have a supplier is going to have a successful podcast no matter what. So it doesn't matter. Even if it's failing, that format is failing in her Instagram, I don't care. We have to keep going. You've got to keep pushing you through because to me, her podcast was a non-negotiable. She had to have a podcast. And her and I agreed that she's going to have a podcast and you have to promote it through short form on social. I just want to take a quick break and thank the Havspot podcast network for supporting success story for the past two years. Now the Havspot podcast network has other incredible podcasts like my first million now. If you are an entrepreneur or you are ready to turn your entrepreneurial dreams into millions, you have to listen to my first million. It's a show that is revolutionizing business podcasting. It's hosted by Sam Parr, Sean Perry. This is a Havspot podcast network original. It brings you unfiltered conversations with self-made millionaires who actually tell you how they did it. If you want to learn how Alex from Mozi built his fitness empire or how Sophia Amaruso turned nasty girl into a fashion phenomenon, these aren't just success stories. They're the blueprints for your own journey to the top. Each episode breaks down the Zach strategies and hidden opportunities that you can use right now. Don't just dream about your first million. Learn how to make it. Listen to my first million wherever you get your podcasts. So I have a question because I also agree that it's with any type of content or any type of format. It's never a will it work. It's sort of like a when will it work. So I do think you have to put in the reps with anything. Yeah, but I think that's the point. Yeah, but I don't know too many people that have done things for 10 years that the 10 year. Yes, you have to iterate and you have to improve and you have to get better at it. But like anybody who's listening to this, anybody who's seen any your content in your community, they want to start a podcast and they do it for 10 years. They'll find a way to become one of the biggest podcasts in the world. It's really not that complicated. So, but the question they have to ask themselves is do you enjoy this format? Like do you enjoy podcasting? Do you enjoy sitting down with people and chatting with people? Do you enjoy long-form video, long-form conversations? Whatever. Like do you enjoy it? Fine. Great. Check. Go do it. If you don't, do you enjoy writing? Go on sub-stack and then write a newsletter every week. Fine. Do that for 10 years and it'll be a successful writer. So I'm curious why you you were so bullish on podcasting because you could have just done anything in the world and for me or for Valeria. For Valeria. Yeah, for Valeria. Mine is a hobby. Yes, I know. Mine is a hobby. One day I won't be. Well, I like mine because it's kind of like a hobby with a purpose and it's just a very effective business card because there are people that I meet and I'll meet them once for dinner like people who potentially that there may be opportunities to explore and then I'll see them again two weeks later and I see the ship and you see it too. I'm sure you see the complete shift because now they've gone and consumed my content and now they know who I am and now there's like a there's a there's a rapport at least from their side because I'm still trying to get to know them. It's actually it's actually it's funny now when I jump on a call when somebody has consumed my content because they feel like they know you already even though you haven't met these people before. Oh, I see it in their eyes. I have I probably am on four or five different Zoom calls a day with various people and I already know as soon as the camera turns on if they you know if they've you know but if they're already on a call with me they already have it means they've consumed a lot of Valeria's content and therefore mine but sorry you were asking about podcasts so so the the whole point was whatever type of content you do you can be successful at it. I'm curious why you wanted Valeria and Valeria wanted Valeria to go into podcast. I'll tell you why because a couple of years ago before she started the podcast I initiated it and I looked at the kind of the environment and I looked at the landscape and I set the Valeria so listen you're doing great the reality though even though I think you're the best at this but the reality is it was we were doing vlogs a lot of short from content photography video is very strong on you know visuals and aesthetic and I said the hurt listen a couple of things there are a lot of beautiful women creating similar content that's number one number two because I know her as well as I do I said to her you're brilliant and she could she really is like she's a Savav she's one of these genius people and I firmly believe that and I said to her I said Valeria for you not to sit down in a foreign for you not to create content in a format where people can now see who you are not just what you look like and in order for you to connect with audience and to take your career to the kind of the next level and the next level the next level you have to sit down and have long form conversations whether it's monologues or dialogues or whatever it is conversations with me whatever it is people need to connect with you on a much deeper level you can't do that with short form alone that plus the competition from other women who are making aesthetic fashion content or whatever content you know I said this is the it's a must you know and that's why but vlog could do that um the vlog's not really sustainable family vlogging it's a it's a it's a difficult animal you guys tried doing that for a bit right we're doubly yeah we're that it's just it's a hard thing because well no what I'm trying to do like what I'm really trying to do is like I have my own content I own platform Gina has her own thing yeah what we're trying to do with the vlog is creates that together so maybe it's a couple spot cast maybe it's a couple spot cast yeah the vlogging the vlogging um there was a lot of dynamic elements of the vlog when the kids were coming up like when they were growing up and getting big and other cute and funny moments um and it's all still out there and it's great I I just yesterday I was watching a vlog of when Valeria told our two older boys that they were having another brother um but I just it's you know it's tough like when I when I look at guys like ace family and some of these other people like it's just a hard time to keep going and I and I feel it's just I don't know it's just like limited I know the Kardashians did it well because essentially they're they're episodes of vlogs right I don't know it just doesn't it just uh you gotta do also you gotta not only kind of from a content format perspective go to where the market is and like where there was market demand but it has to be genuine to you as well and just like family vlogging became kind of not genuine the forced ones well I was going to say that I feel like a lot of family vlogs that I've seen and it's not type of content I consume so I mean there's probably a whole bunch of of content there that I don't watch but the the vlogs that I've watched I feel that they really push the content to the edge it's it's almost like they're architecting it would have at least situations it has to be sensational yeah Kardashians is all sensationalism it has to be sensational the thing is that's just not us we're not those people not I'm not saying anything bad about people who are like theatrical and sensational that's a different type of business it's just not it's just for we would have to become actors eventually and so we just feel like Valeria feels that there's far more value that she can create for audiences and for community by sitting down or having a conversation she just had this woman her name is Sasha she's a fitness influencer she's massive in the uh kind of Spanish speaking world uh and she had her on the show and like they had a great talk and I just don't know that Valeria and I and our kids can deliver that kind of value anymore um but that being said when we go on of like we did a special trip we rented in RV a few months ago uh at the beginning of the summer and we hit the road and that was cool so that's an experience we just don't want to manufacture them anymore we just don't want to be like let's do something fun so we can make a vlog it's like if we're doing something fun then we'll make a vlog it whatever yeah if if we're doing something interesting but like tomorrow we're going to like our bodies you know five-year-olds birthday party like it's just our life it's not that we don't want to do it but when Valeria went to uh Paris for fashion week like that's interesting so that she that she blocked yeah okay so I still want to give back to until where you came from as you still had a really interesting career pre Valeria Inc um there was in Austin Powers uh well the doctor you have by the way you haven't done a lot of podcasts because I listened to podcasts you've done your own podcast but you're on money by his happiness yeah as listening to that one um there haven't been a time you should do more yeah I just again like if they're not like it's not like I'm not on uh I'm not on this path of like hey come take me on your podcast was somebody invites me I say yeah okay I'll come on your podcast um so in Austin Powers Dr. Evil once said the something the the story of my origin is quite inconsequential and then he went in talking about how his father was a womanizer and his wife was a French prostitute with webbed feet um that was just an obscure reference like you did you see the movies you had to like yeah I just thought that was funny I remember I actually I remember the first time I watched Austin Powers um I went to a tennis camp when I was a kid and it was raining one day and obviously you can't play tennis when it's raining and we were like a whole bunch of like eight year olds and like the counselors just put on Austin Powers we watched and I think it was like probably really inappropriate for a whole bunch of kids to watch Austin Powers but that was like the only VHS they had in like the club VHS via I thought Austin Powers I thought Mike Myers was so brilliant with that whole thing I thought it was incredible um you know what I did I did a really you know I'm not trying to avoid my original story we're gonna get to it in a second I did a super inappropriate thing and I'm admit it um so our nine year old Ben I watched Borat with him and I know I think I'm gonna get all yeah that's a little yeah I think I'm gonna get criticized someone's gonna call the police now that but yeah nine's young he was howling he's a very mature nine year old so he he gets the adult he gets the adult humor my my other two I wouldn't do it with Max is too little and Jake who would have influenced them in in the wrong way but like I feel I have this bonding thing it's sometimes like Ben and I will do like Borat jokes maybe you and Ben are like friends you're like yeah I mean like yeah like we're more their kid but like it's yeah yeah yeah he's you're like he runs yeah he's my dude he's gonna be late to chill yeah yeah like I'm much more it's funny because he knows when it's time for me to be like authority dad and friend dad so he knows a line but anyways okay let's talk about me um yeah so I mean I was born in I was born in Ukraine I was born in Kiev I was born in you know post-World War II Soviet Union in 1973 my parents were both Holocaust survivors but like they were never in camps right they were never in a concentration camp they had I don't really know my dad's side of the story like my dad's side of the family but my mom on her side of the family they escaped they crossed the Russian border from Ukraine they crossed the Russian border and there's like there's a whole long story there it's a fascinating story one day one that you have to write a book too oh by the way like like like you sure like true like dealing with absolute bullshit coming from a country that is I mean like post-World War II Soviet Union is not like a great spot either and then coming to a new country sort of burning the bridges starting a new life I think they're fabulous fucking stories yeah but you know what I mean it's my parents story I'm more of an observer there because as a child you don't I indirectly grew up with the stress of that situation but I wasn't living that situation because I was a kid right now I was shielded by my parents but yeah I mean look we came to Canada in 1976 I was three years old my parents were in their mid-30s they had left the only thing they ever knew and it's not like they left the country after traveling the world and being worldly like they were like in a prison like Soviet Union at the time it was it was the iron curtain they had never left the country and they went straight from post-World War II Ukraine and just understand post-World War II Ukraine was probably the most anti-Semitic place on earth because what happened was after World War II people don't understand but millions of Soviets died as well so it wasn't just Jews who were killed in the Holocaust to the Soviets and so people like the Soviets because was also a Soviet so Ukrainian for essentially Soviets that's why I only speak Russian I don't speak Ukrainian because my parents only spoke to me in Russian because in their lifetime it was also a Soviet Union and everything was Russian that Ukrainian and so the way that it was explained to me is that when they came back after the Holocaust and they came back in in in the 40s of 46 47 yeah 47 I think maybe 48 when they came back to their homes in Ukraine when their families came back into Kiev they were hated by the by the non Jews because the non Jews blamed them for Hitler attacking and decimating the whole country and killing all their families too so you know and it was like when we talk about anti-Semitism it's like there it was truly like institutional meaning the institutions would tell like my mom hey thanks for applying to go to university but you're a Jew so we're not taking you like it was just straight up like and like you documented you know right so so and that's what it was you know and that's just a part of history right and that's why a lot of people went to Israel and you know we know kind of what's going on there now that's a whole other conversation but so we ended up going to to Canada and you know we ended up in Canada because my father didn't I don't know he had this thing about the United States and he didn't want to go and he didn't want to go to Israel which was we had left the Soviet Union under the premise that like the Jews can go to Israel we don't want you here but you can go to Israel and so we were in Rome for six months and during that period of time um my dad did the paperwork and he got us into Canada so yeah I mean my origin like yeah it's like you know I grew up in a household where it was always this like you know my parents came they didn't speak English they had no money they had no contacts and so yeah it was it was rough but like I'm not I'm not sitting here like saying that this was a unique situation because millions of people went through this I'm we're not the only ones right this was a very common and it still is a common thing with with migrants who are fleeing that kind of tough situations in coming to Canada or the US you still adopted like a no going back burn the bridges attitude from them well I was a kid I think yeah but I think it's yes I know you were a kid but I think that some of your attitude came from their ability to just leave everything behind maybe I just I'm just not a big believer in plan b's I think plan b's are just like plan b's are but that the role of the personality trait yeah I didn't experience growing up I never experienced this growing up no plan b I had to architect in my head the ability to to not have 10 plan b's and just try and go in on the thing that I'm you know plan a that that is not something that I grew up with I grew up with like the the most risk adverse parents ever right but your parents were also like they're Canadian they're multi-generation Canadian but that's we were we were like the the the Mayflower of Canadians we were going back yeah but they're the product of that society yes Canada there's a saying in Russia the translates to stable like in Canada a big thank you to indeed for supporting success story because hiring people is one of the hardest things you're ever going to do as an entrepreneur as a founder as somebody's trying to build a business because it's important to hire well it's important to hire and find the right person but it takes so much time it's so labor intensive because like most entrepreneurs you have a thousand things going on and there's a good chance that you just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday how can you find that great amazing right 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get your jobs more visibility at indeed dot com slash clary just go to indeed dot com slash clary right now and support our show by saying you heard about indeed on this podcast indeed dot com slash clary terms of conditions apply if you're hiring indeed is all you need really literally I have no doubt it's a thing no question for everything but also I'll say that Russian the beat in the cuck for canadia it's literally like that's the saying and it's stable like in Canada so I understand I understand but no for us it was different because we were in a group of immigrants who everybody was scared coming to Canada we lived the first city we lived in Canada was Calgary Alberta and I got there when I was three and we left there when I was 11 and it was like my mom told me it was like landing on the moon it was so different you know again no money no contacts no English you know under a social programmer my mother would my mother and father they would clean offices during the day in the mornings they would drop me off into like the government daycare my mom told me I would like cry my eyes out and then at the end of the day she would scoop me up that was three years old anyways so yeah I kind of just growing up where they ever entrepreneurial your parents yes and though they were the failed entrepreneurs they they never they never made any kind of meaningful headway unfortunately I believe that the trauma of their kind of Soviet upbringing and that transition from Soviet Union to Canada it was it was too much room so they never really and then you know my parents got divorced I was in my early 20s I had a I don't talk about it a lot but I had a challenging like early life I you know I did and it's not something I talk about because I just don't want anybody sympathy um and there's like a lot of stories but it was difficult um one of the things was we were just like in this constant my dad was like constantly we're gonna be in the streets we're gonna be in the streets we're gonna be in the streets so I kind of grew up with that thing of like we're always on the edge of disaster you know so growing up with that yeah like it's it kind of messes with your mind as a kid and then you know the other thing is like culturally I grew up as a Canadian kid so kind of you know westernized being raised by very like you should know like communist block parents right so it was this always this like this polarity in my in my life but you know between the two but you know fortunately unfortunately whatever that whatever that polarity was it created like a perfect environment you are super entrepreneurial so I don't know how I don't know how you were the output of this or what what the but it's by necessity sky it's by necessity no it's not by necessity what do you mean you could have gotten a job I did I got fired you could have got no they fired me again these fuckers just kept firing me because I was just a terrible employee I just sucked at it I sucked at it until until I got into my first I got into my first kind of entrepreneurial thing well my very first entrepreneurial thing was I sold I sold stuffed animals on street corners yeah yeah so what would happen is a friend of mine when I was in so my first year of college after my first year of college I think my first year of university I was 19 and I had a buddy of mine who would he would do is he would go and he would go to Canada's Wonderland never Canada's Wonderland is like a theme to the Americans it's like a theme park it's like a six flags kind of situation and he would win stuffed animals like he would win them he would get really good at the games and he would win them and then he'd go outside and set them up in the parking lot and sell them that's so funny and so then he eventually got into it where he would like he would win so many of them that he would hire his friends to sit on the corners selling these animals so I was one of those friends and he would pay me like a salary you know you pay me like a little commission and so during the summer of my first year after college part of my time I would spend pumping gas for a five dollars an hour back then Canadian maybe less and then the other times I would be on the street corners on the weekends the weekends were the big times for the selling stuff the animals and I would work for my friend and in the summer after that I decided to go off on my own I didn't want to compete with him because I felt bad you know he's my friend and then I want to compete with him and it's set up like in the in the same city as him so I did it in London Ontario where I was going to school but instead of winning the stuffed animals I looked at the tags I went to Canada's Wonderland and I looked at the tag of the stuffed animal and I saw who the manufacturer was so I just went to I called the manufacturer is it hey I want to buy some stuffed animals and I'm a 19 year old kid and they would sell to like the conclins of the world and all these big you know and you would have like 18 meal trucks pull up to the back of these warehouses and Toronto and load up with stuffed animals right and I'm just sitting there I'm like yeah I want to buy some stuffed animals so yeah I just bought stuffed animals I got like this crappy little van this like van for 500 bucks my dad lamb but I'm not I love I love these like super scrappy entrepreneurs stories is actually very fun what's super scrappy I was making 10k a month I mean 10k a month and that's after the first summer after I worked with my friend that guys yeah yeah yeah 10k Canadian a month this these many cash cash back in like back in like the early 90s yeah it's crazy you're pulling 120 on your first no but I only did it in the summers but I was the man like I was the guy like in college fast do you forget that there's there's winters in the rest of the world the second you right right right right no so yeah so what happened was I would buy stuffed animals I haven't talked about this shit in years I would buy stuffed animals from the same people who would supply all the theme parks all over the all over the all over actually Canada and the United States these were like manufacturers there were two manufacturers and at first they didn't want to give me an account and then I just I drove my van to the back and there was a dude there like hey what's up he's like what's up my hey can I buy some stuffed animals he's like I fuck it and so he just sold me stuffed animals um did he tell anybody else that he was selling this stuffed animals that's none of my business that's not my business fucking amazing but I had a van and when I told you I loaded up that van there was no more air in the van I had so many stuffed animals each stuffed animal was in its own little plastic bag and each stuffed animal like I just like if you can imagine the back of a cargo van right it was just air there was no sorry there was no air it was just stuffed animals stuffed animals and then what I would do is I would dry back to London because the the suppliers in Toronto I would dry back to London Ontario and then I would just because it was on one year lease on all of the student housing over there and I wasn't going to pay the two months for the student housing like for my apartment in London and then go back to Toronto because in Toronto all my friends came back to Toronto and so that's where everybody was socializing my I fuck I'm gonna stay in London so I stayed in London I was a kid in my early early like early 20s and that was my time to party in the summers but instead of parting in the summers I didn't take any money from my parents to go to school it was all stuffed animal money and oh sap oh sap oh sap I ran due to a student loans yeah yeah and so and so yeah I piled the stuffed animals I went back to London I set up on street corners and I would just saw stuff animals every theft animal arbitrage oh dude I would buy like no but that's where I developed like sale skills so for example I had what you buy the stuffed animal on the street corner dude I had all kinds of clients so what would happen is I just if you can imagine it wasn't like I just opened the back of the van and there were stuffed animals I took them all out and so if you can imagine a full van full of stuffed animals and then I just laid them all out on the plastic bags so they don't get dirty but it was like I can't even describe you how big it was it looked like it looked like a toy store it looked like Barney vomited all over the looking and I did it with gas station so I would go to the gas station and I'd go to the gas station attendant right just some random guy at the gas station in the minimum wage guy at the gas station I'm like hey I'm gonna set up the thing he goes no no the owner no no you can't do it you can't do it am I giving you kids you see I have a kid oh yeah boys girls we got was I have a boy and they took out like the little gorilla whatever I'm like why don't you give this to your kid is like okay and then he just left me alone and I just set up and I just set up I just set up at the gas station so I had I it was it intersections so I traffic coming in from all sides and people would stop and it was always an impulse buy because they would see it so I had the advertising in the marketing was done by the display they would pull in I have parking they would come out and they would negotiate with me I learned my initial negotiation skills there when somebody would say how much for this teddy bear and I'd say it's 30 bucks teddy bear's 30 bucks he goes give me for 20 I go look I'm not gonna do it for 20 I go but for 30 bucks why don't you pay me 30 and I'm gonna give you this other teddy bear here this teddy bear I sell for 10 the meanwhile that teddy bear cost me a dollar so instead of knocking it down to 20 bucks I basically added another teddy bear that cost me a dollar so in reality I got my you know I only give him a dollar off do you know what I mean and I put more product in his hand and so now he would send his friends and he would come back as he'd come with more animals so I learned kind of basic negotiation basic like honestly like marketing merchandising like it but this is like the the most important skill for an entrepreneur to think I mean there's a lot of important skills I know but I think this is one of the most important but the negotiations were the most fun part the those were the best those were the best I'll tell you I dude comes in he's in his BMW you know he's looking at me like I'm poor you're like and I get it cool I'm the guy on the street corner selling stuff to animals he's coming in you know he's a young kid he's like in his early 20s he's got his girlfriend with him they come out of his BMW and I already know I already look at this kid it's like okay he lives at home it's his dad's car or he leases it and all his money goes to the car because he's not paying rent like I already sized the guy up as he's walking over I see his girlfriend she's looking around and she's like oh my god I love this one I love this one I love and he comes and goes hey give me a deal I'm like and so I already kind of a night so a cup I developed that kind of instinct and I understood yeah I just understood negotiations I understood like you know kind of what motivates clients I understood how to create value right I understood how to create value in you know if somebody comes and like they have a child and I'd be like oh okay like what are you into like I understood how to I learned how to qualify a customer and then provide them with the best value possible in order to satisfy them and for them to leave that street corner after buying an animal for me and send their friends over so then what would happen is I would like people would keep coming back and saying oh my friend was just here and he bought this in this monkey you know the monkey like yeah do you have any more of those monkeys I'm okay I got more so and that's where you start learning those skills so yeah that's kind of where I picked it up from do you think that entrepreneurship is is something you're born with I believe anything can be developed I became an entrepreneur out of necessity because pumping gas at five bucks on our wasn't an option I just want to take a second and thank fresh books for supporting today's episode now there are three numbers that you have to know 30 million 60 billion 192 hours what did these me over 30 million people have used fresh books over 60 million in doses have been paid through fresh books and over 192 hours have been saved annually using fresh books all in one accounting if you're an entrepreneur a freelancer a solo printer if you are tired of chasing payments and drowning in receipts fresh books is here to make your life easier it's the all-in-one accounting solution that helps you manage everything from creating professional estimates and 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to a thousand jobs then go find some stuffed animals you just got me thinking about that kind of that that turning point that inflection point in my life when I said okay I'm gonna go sell these stuffed animals I never thought of myself as an entrepreneur you know I never did back then I it never crossed my mind you know what I don't even think I consider myself an entrepreneur now people ask me what do you do I don't even know what I do the reality is when people ask me what do you do the real answer is whatever it takes and so I believe that my entrepreneurial journey me as an entrepreneur it's just it's it's out of necessity it's port out of necessity and it's port out of just it's constantly wanting more it's wanting more it's this constant I have a constant need for progress and improvement and so when I look back as you've got me kind of you know reflecting when I think back as to why what maybe an entrepreneur it's this constant need for progress and improvement that's it that's what it comes down to for me do I want to be super rich I mean I like money but but now that I'm I have a couple of bucks it's not what makes me happy it's not it truly isn't and I truly understand that I don't get bent out of shape like I used to about not closing the deal I still try as like how I still push everywhere I can and if I can save a deal I'll save a deal but I don't get bent out of shape if it doesn't happen anymore I'm okay with it because when I when I assess what truly makes me happy and I I've come to that point of self-realization it's it's not the amount of money in my bank account it's not my stuff it's such a hard it's such a hard idea to to put in someone's head when they're just starting out though but it's it's the right it's the right idea I don't know man I just think things come when you're not trying to get it it's like the strangest thing it's the same way when like Valeria turned me down and I stopped trying to get her I got her you know what I mean same thing same thing like I'd love it if a million people come in off of this podcast and sign up to my creator method course but I'm okay if they don't like it's you know what I mean like it's not my intention but then you get into the clichés like you're supposed to enjoy the journey and like it but it's it is true you can enjoy the journey I just enjoy I just enjoy the shit that matters sure I can enjoy the journey cool yeah I enjoy the journey but I enjoy the shit that matters you know I enjoy watching Borat with Ben like I enjoyed that shit you know if you ask me like what's your most memorable thing it wasn't the X amount of millions of dollars we made in the last whatever it's the fucking like sitting in watching Borat with Ben and getting laughs with him and like you know doing like doing shit with with them I don't know man it's it's or like my time with my wife like I truly love my wife like and I'm truly still in love with my wife we've been together 13 years like to me she's still my girlfriend it's truly that's how I feel like I don't feel I'm going home to my wife I know I don't even look at her as my wife yeah just going back to my origin story sorry I started on the stuffed animals and then yeah like so after that you know after the stuffed animals I ended up like I finished the university I have a degree in geology do you actually I do I didn't know that yes that is the the most surprising thing I think I'll ever learn about you do you have a degree in geology I do I have a degree I have a Bachelor of Science in Geology yeah I'm actually surprised that you wanted to do it for where your degree you know what I know I didn't I mean my my first motivation to go to university was because two things I wanted to get out of my house because it wasn't the best situation and everybody was going to university at the time and I didn't want to be like the loser you didn't go to university so those are my two motivations and I got accepted to and I was a terrible shit student and by the way in my final year of university I had failed a course that would make it so I couldn't get my degree yeah and it was a three-year degree that it took me four years to get I was the four-year degrees of me five years to get so that's fine okay there you go there you go so but not only did my three-year degree take me four years to get the like I had failed a course that basically that's it you can't get your degree so what did I do I went to the I had a friend this girl Rosa lovely girl she's great she still lives in London I knew that her friend was the daughter of the Dean of Geology like the geology school had like a dean had a head dude you know so I'm like hey listen can you tell her I want to talk to her dad like like you know like would you mind I'm meeting I leverage my network you know and so Rosa's like okay whatever she's got me a meeting I came in there I'm like hey what's up I go look here's a situation like you gotta give me a passing you just gotta give me a passing mark on that one course so I can get my degree he goes but not what you failed and I'm like I don't have any more money I can't come back here for another year like this is a three-year degree in four years like I'm not exactly like a star student like I've already you know I'm up to my eyeballs in debt you gotta help me out and you gotta just give me like boost that one grade give me a passing grade on that one class and just get me like literally pass the goal post so I can just get my degree and get the fuck out of here and he was like he liked me you know like a you know I spent some time with him I really told him I sold him you know and uh and he and he and he passed me and I remember dude I haven't talked about this shit in years I remember I got a job after that my first job was at a future shop number usually yeah to those who don't know it's like a circuit city circuit city actually I'm gonna buy them and well no I mean it's like it's like a best buy sorry like a best yeah yeah it still exists yeah a future shop doesn't exist don't best buy that that's by bought them and yeah and I remember honestly one of the proudest moments of my life to date when I after I worked at future shop for a while I would see all these like that was the first time I touched the computer so I was selling computers at future shop to people and I didn't know because all my in university all my shit was written by hand I'm a little older than I know I know we didn't have we didn't have computers in university so the first time I touched the computer was I was selling them for the first time at future shop and they trained me on what the CPU is and their RAM and all this shit and so I was selling them and um after that I got like a corporate job which they eventually fired me from after like less than a year I was selling like computer hardware to an insurance company and they gave me a laptop and to me that was more satisfying than like I bought a Rolls Royce after my exit you know and I got this laptop and I was so proud of my laptop I got into my 1986 Chevy which was half blue and half rust and I drove to London Ontario and I knocked on the Dean's door and I was so proud I'm like Dean I just want you to know because you gave me that passing grade and you got me my degree I was able to get a job look what they gave me I showed him I have a laptop dude I remember this shit it was so funny like looking at back at it now he was like home so proud I just wanted to show him that his effort wasn't wasted like the fact that he gave me a break it wasn't wasted like I made something to myself somebody gave me a laptop yeah do my job then it wasn't my laptop they just gave it to me so I can work it's a worklaught I know but I was so proud of this work laptop that somebody actually that's you have me thinking about I haven't thought of this shit in years but like yeah man that's so look so just fast forward I mean you know from there I I eventually started something called menu palace dot comwood in late 1999 with a partner with my partner Mike I was like that was like dot com that was like the beginning of kind of the whole dot com thing so it was an online restaurant directory and it took me 10 years not not 10 years like eight years to build that to a business doing like maybe three million dollars or even sales eight years yeah yeah that's a lot that's a good amount of time well considering I had zero business background I was in my late 20s at the time when I started that company like 27 and I started that company and we it was just like grinding it was like my first time I sold to an ad for $59 for the year to a pizza pizza by the slice place and then one once I got him I went to all of his neighbors and I said this guy's advertising on my website you should you should do this shit too and so I did it so we built that up and I was making decent money there what I thought was decent money and I thought that was it and I was I thought I had crossed the finish line and then in 2012 I had deal find which was a competitor to group on because you had leveraged the the audience I had leveraged there was no audience there was a database with maybe 20,000 email addresses there was nothing but I had relationships with a lot of the restaurants so the daily deal business I saw was going on a blue group on and we started deal find which is a competitor to group on battle industry kind of caught fire and in one year we raised 32 million dollars that was and part of that was my exit because it was a part of it was a secondary that went off the table we raised 32 million dollars and on a hundred billion dollar valuation on that business after 12 months that's wild so that was my first real like understanding of what business really was that that was for somebody that built something for eight years and then the next business goes from zero to a hundred million dollar valuation to 12 months that can I mean if you don't if you don't deploy that capital gracefully like you can fuck up a lot personally or both oh I was a complete fuck up I have no I've not I have no doubt I was gonna say I have no doubt but I was gonna say like just like the the velocity and the speed that that business moved that would screw up most people well I had I had more money than I had ever even via I realized that my life that's uh it sounds great oh I bought a rolls Roy I bought a convertible rolls Roy sounds great when you when you hear the story but when you're living it it's I made a lot of mistakes yeah I made a lot of mistakes and um yeah I mean you learn you learn your lessons a lot of money real quick it's it is like the thing is is how did you get 32 million like you're just because it was you were in a hot category same way I sold the stuff to animals bro like I don't know like they just like the VCs came to raise for a first your one company that was like a back in there there was no raise before that that was 32 million back in 2012 yeah so that was yeah the whole space was on fire and we had probably five or six different VCs um competing to make this investment and I even dictated like it's funny because it's not funny it's not funny to the guy who's not my buddy who was my competitor at the time um he was so bullish he didn't take any secondary like a large piece of that 32 million went to me and um yeah I just ice like I thank god I had the so you like money off the table in the first year yeah yeah you know who does this who did this and from from solid core she took money off the table every single round and I think the more entrepreneurship I think they should too but I mean that's kind of a young entrepreneur's mistake because you know um so my the my competitor at the time he uh he didn't and so he had a competing company also in Toronto and he didn't take it and uh the whole thing ended up kind of imploding on itself and the investors lost their money unfortunately but um but yeah that's just the way it is and so yeah I negotiated that deal for myself and my partner um so yeah I was pretty happy with that deal but yeah and then after that it was like it was a series of different things I had uh I had um that's a stressful that's a stressful like implosion it was a very stressful implosion yeah nobody nobody asked me about that actually but yeah that was really stressful because a year after that um we left the company um and yeah it was like we had 400 employees so we had 400 employees and it was as fast as it was going up it started going down because there was just really how did it blow up like how did it go up or down no no no how did it blow up like how did it not work so quickly like you have 32 million dollars yeah 400 dollars is a significant I 400 employees is a significant burn but I mean you could have you could have kept that going for a couple of years with 32 million there was complete consumer fatigue because the barrier to entry on that business and the daily deal space was so low that anybody got into it anybody and everybody got into it I'm still friends with the some of the competitors like we're still we're still friends Michelle Michelle Romano Romano Romano from I'm a clear co yeah she was one of our competitors that's how I met her I met her back then she had a she had a company called bytopia dot c a minus called deal find dot com um and uh yeah and now she's great I talked to her every now and then um yeah it's like yeah that whole thing there was just extreme consumer fatigue like what would happen is there was this one butcher and we would do like $50 for like $200 worth of meat um and he would sell like in one day we sold a million dollars right and then he got his portion of that million dollars and then he just fucked up so when that starts happening and it's like for us we're trying to control it and we were trying to put in systems like checks and balances to control this kind of fraudulent behavior on the part of our um of our kind of merchant partners but it was just like it was such wildfire it was impossible to do and then once they're at group on still around but they are like a shell of what they were yeah they were valued I don't use them they were offered billions by I think it was Google and they turned it down they turned it then now they're like not they're not nothing they're not they're not billions right but it was just like the concept of buying a credit in a restaurant for $20 for ten bucks people went nuts for it people went nuts for it to the point whereas the first day that I ran my first daily deal it was uh one of the restaurant owners there was my client the menu palace that I knew and we ran it and in one day we did like $10,000 in revenue which was very meaningful I was like whoa that's like in one day boom and like easy 10 maybe higher maybe 20,000 and so then while that deal was running I was trying to manage the tech and then I was running to the car wash to talk to the car wash guy to say hey listen do a car wash that's 50 bucks do it for 20 bucks and the reason why we were successful is because of my incremental little deal making right whereas my competitor would go in and do like you know $25 for a $50 credit and I would say do 20 for 50 right and so then we would run similar deals and I was always like a little bit better because it was always me at the end going to the merchant doing that final little that little you know that little push at the end yeah it was very stressful white quite the roller coaster because I'm sure there's very 32 million obviously VCs have expectations and I'm sure that was stressful when that whole thing imploded it was stressed but it is it was like a it was like they were experienced VCs yeah so these are guys with billion hum yeah 32 millions around the air for them yeah but I can tell you even if it is as as the entrepreneur it doesn't matter because that's more money than you've ever dealt with in your life and it's still like it fucks with you that to me you may as well have called it a bajillion like it was just an endless amount of money for me back then like the fact that somebody trusted me with 32 million I gotta say like I gotta tell you like to me it just hurt me that I lost their money and it was funny because I was talking to other like other because when that deal happened I then started gaining access to people who had a much bigger entrepreneurs right and when I did that and when I told them like oh like I feel so bad about this they're like we feel bad about I'm like well I feel bad like I lost their money they come sure like some of them have like families and so that he's like Gary dude like that month they deployed another $500 million and on the like a 10 other deals failed and one other one deal in public and made them back all their money and like another $2 billion don't worry about it you you're good but that's also why I think the like entrepreneurs should raise from people that are used to investing you know I agree look that to me yeah I would never do a friends and by the way I never took money before that day and I never took money after that day I've never raised money from anyone I've never the most I did and this was like a few years ago one of my bodies he said you should get a line of credit at the bank I'm like I don't want it and so finally I broke down I got a line of credit that I don't use you know but I have a line of credit so it's that yeah that that I have to say and like it so let me tell you something really quick about my wife and I don't think I've told this story publicly before I said to my wife when I met her it was when I made that first deal for that 32 million and I took my piece of that and after that when and we got together at that time and so I was under the assumption that there's another 50 to 100 coming because I still owned a massive piece of the company you raised it at a hundred million dollar valuation yeah do the calculation pretty money post money right I still owned a lot of the company and the way that the VCs were telling me like I was this whiz kid we're gonna sell it I'm gonna make hundreds of millions they're like we already know where you're gonna invest that you're gonna put it back in our fund we're gonna quadruple that money I was like living in this dream and everybody was pumping me up and I was like the toast of the town for a little bit I'd walk into a restaurant I have like ten like you know money managers coming to me like talk trying to get so I had this like inflated you know sense of like my own accomplishments and I'm really happy I lived through that because like I feel it's really grounded me now but I said something to Valeria and I even the Fush would say this but it's kind of too late now I said to Valeria because it was under the premise that there's all this more money coming and I said to her between us like I sat down and I'm like you know what that other money's not coming so yeah we did well like I did well and I have this money this was before we got married before the wedding I said but I still have to work so it's not gonna be enough for the rest of our lives not not for the way that I want to live it's not gonna be enough meaning it's not gonna be the easy ride that I thought it would be from here on in I was 38 years old at the time which was 20 right and I said if you want to back out of this wedding because I don't want you to feel like that I came to you and like I brought like I proposed to you under the premise that it's gonna be this other scenario if you want out I will be like I understand and I'll never tell a soul that that was the case and so your reputation will not be like the fact that at all she looked at me she goes you were so stupid she goes I don't care I don't care about the money never say that dumb shit to me again and that's it and that conversation never happened again and that was it so to me Valeria's like she's the one like she's real bro like she's I can't even describe to you know I have a picture I have a photo that's so funny I have a photo when I came to her and like the first time I told her that it's not happening we're not getting that money and she hugged me and somebody happened to take a picture so there's a picture of her it's like my back and I'm hugging her and you can see her long hair and everything and it's that moment that I told her and I have that picture somewhere so yeah so to me like that really that just tells you who Valeria is so all of her success and everything it's it's it's very well-deserved I think that but I think that like that's you know we're talking about like your entrepreneurship story but I think that the most important thing that most people can the X factor in a lot of people's successes who they spend their life with it's the most important decision you're gonna make period hands down there's nothing more important not who your business partner will be not what business you go into not where you live not your neighborhood but anything it's who you marry it's totally when you marry bar none bro but it's it makes or breaks people makes or breaks really not stressed out when you started working with Valeria that it was gonna put stress no not even like a not even a a doubt like at all that it would be stressful yeah on your on your marriage and your relationship so what you know what I mean like so what yeah it'll be stressful having kids is stressful everything is stressful now you're putting everything into one like all these days going to one basket all bet on us every day of the week I'll bet on us every single time I'll bet that working with my wife the person who I love the most in this world will always be more successful working with her partnering with her teaming up with her than any other scenario I will always trust that before anything else because think about it I got together with her under the premise that I'm gonna share a life with her I'm gonna build a life with her I'm gonna make other people with her I'm gonna we have kids so to me the business is like it's nothing compared to the other stuff that we do together you don't have kids yet you're not you know right you don't have kids yet I know but you will and you're gonna understand you can understand that once you have children with somebody that everything else it's like it's easy man it's it's easy because as much as valerious career is important and our business is important and all the kind of stuff that we do as a result of valerious notoriety is important all of it is nothing compared to like our children so if we can correctly raise our children together or whatever there's our children together this shit is easy the business is easy because it's so much less important you say I'm saying I do see what you're saying it takes a certain type of beast though it takes a certain type of person because I can tell you like well you know what I you know I asked because not only like I mean if something doesn't work there's stress and you're you can't escape that work stress when it's literally in the person you share a home with but also now Valeria is like the brand and before that you were building everything and it was your company and it was your thing but I had to but I I played ahead in building Valeria's brand too I know I know you did I know you did but notice how I say I played a hand in it because the last thing I would want is anybody to think that it was me who created Valeria Valeria was already fully formed I would just happen to be kind of like I happen to help her I happen to be maybe the vessel to carry who she is but she is I'm telling you she's brilliant like it's I I I like to be you see what I'm saying right because like people like want to something like at least for me I have always wanted to do my own thing and build my own thing but like Gina has her own company too when we come back and forth like should I spend more time working with her or should I build my own thing and I don't know what the right answer is you made a decision and I don't know what the right like maybe I should spend less time dicking around on this show and more time spending it's been more time building MTS it's tough it's a very tough way the way the way that I look at it is I look at where's the biggest opportunity right where's the biggest opportunity right and I just go after the biggest opportunity and if that biggest if for you the biggest opportunity is not whatever you're doing now and it's something to do with Gina then I would just go and do whatever the biggest opportunity is to me it's not I don't I don't look at it like is it with my wife not with my where's the biggest opportunity you go to the biggest opportunity and if you know what I mean like and there's other opportunities opening up to us right now really like interesting ones but it all is stemming from Valeria I recently put out a real when I interviewed Valeria and a lot of people don't know this is that when we had I had a company I had a media company I was reaching like 200 million people a month through a viral news website that I had isn't like a kind of a partnership with Facebook and then Zuck got called to Capitol Hill and it was the whole Cambridge Analytica scandal and we had 20% of Facebook was coming through my domain so yeah that's wild yeah that's a whole other story and so Facebook called to stop we were working with one of their departments we were living in Toronto they were in New York they called us they go that's me to talk I'm a door so me and my partner at the time we went to New York like we have to stop I'm like what do you mean they're like 20% of our audio 20% of Facebook goes through your fucking domain we have to stop you guys have to stop I'm like okay we'll tone it down give us 5% they're like no no no you have to turn it off so unfortunately that business went down but the point I'm trying to make is that when that happened I had income coming in off of that and I had just put a deposit on we had just veleery and I put a deposit on a brand new house and even though from a net worth perspective we were good but we had money tied up here and there and we were we got a mortgage on house oh yeah it's also not fun one overnight like yeah mine is gone that's never far my my my legitimate salary I took a salary of normal salary right and that salary was mortgages aren't given against your house your house is uses collateral mortgages are given on your income right and so and so that dried up in between when we put a deposit on and when we have the clothes so now we're like I don't know eight months away from clothes and I have to come up with in the banks like oh you don't show income you're not getting the mortgage and veleery literally saved their asses again from a net worth perspective we were fine but we had to show income and so veleery's brand deals were coming in and we were able to then take income as a result like put her through the corporation and take a salary for both veleery and I veleery saved the day and so anybody who kind of thinks loud veleery you know Gary because he was an entrepreneur before he did all this that's bullshit veleery took the initiative veleery puts in the work you know so I just I when I talk so enthusiastically about veleery I feel that sometimes it could be misconstrued that I'm taking like credit whereas I'm a partner but it is veleery I just like it's important I don't think that I mean just I know you so it's a little bit I'm a little bit biased but I never got the vibe that you were ever taking credit the question was really like what was the the reason that made you want to go all in on on her and her brand when you could have easily just turned around and built something new yourself because you've done it but she's the for you for she's the fucking best I love that she's in as that I don't know because I couldn't again I go to where the opportunity was and when I saw her initial traction and I saw the quality of her content and I saw that first check up in for 10 grand from a sponsor right when she had only tens of thousands of followers and I looked at this and I'm just like fuck your soul talented and I'm like this is the biggest opportunity and we have to do this and I asked her about it I said are you in you don't have to if you don't want to you don't have to go back to being a house I don't care like I care but do what you got to do what do you want to do like I'm in let's do it and then I went and that's it and we're like we're doing it and I said you're going to be a household name and I won't stop until you are like we won't stop and and we're not we're not stopping we're just we keep going bro you know how much I love what I do I don't think you're nice there I'm I fucking love you I love seeing her in the spotlight I love seeing her actulate I love when she gets like an article about her I love it I just I love it I love it because I see what she's built more than just the money more than just the fame I see the person she's become as a result from when she started from when she was 26 to where she is now when she's at 34 if you don't understand like I think a lot of people they don't necessarily have the benefit that I do or have the experience that I do have seen someone as talented as my wife from when she started in doing something so meaningful to where she is now witnessing that and being a part of it and helping her through it it's the most rewarding experience I've ever had that's why you have a beautiful relationship and that's why you have a beautiful family and that's I mean like this is like I think most people so we have her fucking challenges too I don't want to be here sitting like you know but I think that most people just want their partner to to be the be their best I actually think that it causes more stress and a relationship when they don't feel like their partner is living up to their potential you're right you know it's funny because but that's a certain personality so I think we're very much the same personality like I love when G wins like I absolutely love when she wins like I'm trying like every time I get invited on stage I'm like I'm not speaking unless she's like sitting across from me able to do a panel together I fucking love it but that's the kind of personality that we are and I think that I think that's a very healthy way to you're absolutely right listen partners need to support each other I don't understand and I want to talk about the men you know the men I think are a little fucked up when they don't support their wives because of their own insecurities and it's interesting because in creator method like about maybe two or three months ago we do these weekly calls or like the members all come on and I get on the call Valeria comes from time to time and then we have like you know our other kind of our CEO and other members of our team mentoring them and it gets personal in there you know it's it's a group it's like a you know it's like a good container you know and one of the women said Gary can you help me because you've been such a supportive role like we've seen over the years through Valeria's content you've been so supportive how do I get my husband on board I'm like what do you mean she was well my husband's not supportive of this like you know this woman had some followers whatever and she was making a little bit of money and she was like I really want to blow up but I can't I don't have a support I go I want to see because it's on the video I go I want to see a show of hands who else feels that they're husband because it's all women in the you know who's who else who else is husband or boyfriend is not supporting them in this endeavor and I see like 70% of the screen goes up that's why like it to me that's crazy crazy so you know what I did you know I said okay I said we're doing a call I want you to invite all of your husbands on the next call we're doing a separate call from our regular Friday calls I want I want to invite your husbands who aren't supporting you and I want them on the screen with you sitting with you and on the next call I want them all here and I want to talk to them with you there as well I want to have this conversation with them and what I told the women before their husbands go on the call in that moment I said I want you to know that they probably it's not because they don't want to I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they just don't know how to support you through this they don't have the emotional intelligence perhaps they don't have the confidence of putting you in the spotlight and so they're not bad guys please don't vilify your husbands but get them on a call with me and let me discuss this with them and we go on a call and I and I just broke it down and I said to them guys here's the size of the opportunity here's an idea of how much revenue we're generating here's an idea of what like the size of the creator economy and the hundreds of billions of dollars here's an idea of all of these things and these are the reasons why you should support your wife or girlfriend whatever but the main reason you should support this person is because that's your partner that's why you should support them right and so yeah I'm a big I'm just a big proponent of it I mean you gave me the benefit of the doubt why do you after you had that call why do you think that people why do you need to live and felt they weren't supported because I happen to be an online media so I kind of understood the size of the opportunity um I just feel like I have more no no no I'm not talking about the size of the webcam talking about why a partner wouldn't support another partner in their career ambitions I don't understand that but obviously I'm in the minority if 70% said they weren't being supported it's mostly um happens men don't support women because I think men have this notion that the woman should a lot of men that have this notion that women aren't that talented in business unfortunately I think it's disgusting um a lot of them want their women to just stay at home and take care of the kids while they go off and do the manly thing um yeah I think that's I think a lot of it is that and a lot of them are just like they're listen a lot of them are a lot of them are challenged by it a lot of them feel threatened by yeah right I mean yeah they don't have confidence they don't yeah Valeria is on the front of all everything yeah I'm in the back and the only reason by the way the only reason I'm even doing anything right now number one because I just enjoy it but I would be happy being like completely obscure and hidden and you know and and and running shit I don't need I don't need this I don't have that I don't feel threatened by it I don't feel threatened by Valeria being the face on the face of success and I don't feel threatened by it again the only reason I do it is because now we're developing creator method and creator method is being built largely because we feel that there's like a massive need for it but as a business um for us we need to do something that's not all on Valeria so like I you know Valeria comms and she's part of it but it's mostly my time and the the and we have a now a separate staff for creator but it's just interesting to me it's interesting how we're so similar I think and how we look at like supporting our partners but when the hell wouldn't we like what's the point getting married I don't fucking get I don't fucking get like I don't do hair if G doesn't want to build a business yeah but I want her to enjoy life and have some meaning and if the meaning the meaning is kids fine if the meaning is go and do uh charitable nonprofits of fine the meaning is go build a business fine but like I want you to enjoy your life so if if and also if you are so fucking my op it there's seasons to people's lives too like there are seasons to people's lives so just because your wife took care of the kids for the past 20 years doesn't mean that's all she's ever gonna be like you can have others in your life too you're absolutely right you know sorry I don't mean to interrupt you but like so I have this thing where I do sometimes I do like one-on-one calls I do like case studies with our members and so often I see women who have just had kids and who are trying to get back to doing something so they can feel sane so they can feel like you know or let's say their kids are like now in an age where they're about to go off the daycare and so they can now they have time and they want to go back into the workforce and they feel so like um scared and underappreciated trying to go back and rediscover who they are and they're like scared to create content and they're scared and they're and they're just they I don't know like it's it's and I have to tell them say you just spent the last few years having kids raising kids yes your husband was at work nothing much changed for him meaning he continued to get up in the morning go to work make money come home yeah there's been big changes for him but for you you have to stop your life because you're the one who carry the children you're the one who births the children you're the one who has to stay home and feed the kids and and so why should you feel any kind of because a lot of them feel guilty that they haven't been contributing financially it's just like weird psychological thing you know they feel they feel guilty because they haven't been contributing financially and so they're trying to get back into it and they don't have confidence when they're in front of the camera and I see it in their content and I'm like I see you're not and then she's like and then the truth comes out and they start telling me I feel like useless because I've been at home like useless but they should be having that conversation with their husband and they probably are you know but I don't think the husbands are the culprits here I just think no I'm just wondering because they feel that so that that thought is coming from somewhere and that that impostor syndrome whether or not it because you have you have a cohort of women because of that I mean they'll come into Valeria's audience right most of them do a creator method now that's what audience but yeah but it comes from Valeria but I mean that impost it's gonna manifest in every creator in some way this just happens to be a similar type of impostor syndrome so people have to find a way like this is why the the person you're with at home is so important the environment the people the friends that you keep the people that you know you feel comfortable being candid and talking about like your own psychological shit that you that it's stopping you from putting out content building a business doing whatever the fuck you want like I think it's very important to put that stuff out there but if you can't do it in your own home I think that's a huge issue and I think that partner should check themselves if they don't feel I agree I agree you know it's interesting like your podcast is all about success at someone building businesses and in your content you get into the case studies of the businesses you get into like what happens but this part is largely more I know it is right so just an idea for your content is when your guests allow it I'm very open because I just happen to be that's just the way I am and that our content is very like you know open um but I believe that investigating the personal side of business success and what had to happen in order for the person to be mentally prepared and to be the mental strength the stability they needed at home the way that they looked at their situation at home and how they used that in order to succeed like Anne from solid core because she was on my podcast too and she had the situation the negative situation with her dad and you know and and so she went on and she used that that experience that negative experience much like I've used the negative experience of my early life to create something different like you know the way that like I'll look at the way my father would try to be an entrepreneur where he was too scared to do certain things he was very risk averse and so I as a result became very like risk friendly and I'm like oh hey let's do it let's do it let's burn the bridges let's do and so I used you know I did I didn't even do it consciously I just naturally kind of my reaction to the way he did things you know and like and so I think that when you're talking to your guests if I may make a suggestion I humbly is that try to get into these these stories yeah I try to try to get into it because try to find out because like on my podcast when I interview I also like I interview successful people um and I get into it there's this one guy me how bursky you know me how no me how bursky sold his he hit a shampoo for curly hair oh no you mentioned his I know this yeah yeah I sold it for 150 million to hell enough Troy um this guy he was he was born and grew up in communist Poland yeah and he was telling me how he was hustling collecting bottles empty bottles and like caching them in for like pennies and that's how we fed himself because his family was so broke and so getting into that story into that those hardships and understanding what he had to do and following that path in his life to take him to his success it's fucking wild man it's just wild to understand how the mind works to take you and the other thing I want to say is that what I find with entrepreneurs uh with successful people as a whole is that and I find it across the board the more difficult the circumstances that they came from or had to endure the more successful they are later the more successful they are later I know somebody who did time real time and one of the most successful guys I know he got out of that and he just built something beautiful like and he did really well and and you know people who like like me how who was like trading bottles for nickel stuff eat himself like so you know there's and this I don't want to I don't want to beat this topic to death there is like an art to bring these stories out of people I think I think the whole goal of podcasting well is to create an environment where people feel safe talking about this stuff yeah but that is with you and I just we know each other yeah would I have opened up like this yeah you know with a stranger maybe maybe not I don't think so though but sometimes when you listen if if you if you open up yourself to as an interviewer and you speak about your own like I didn't really speak about a lot of my own stories here but if I didn't know you and I have them as before so some people if you listen to some of the past interviews I had some people go deep and some people talk about very personal things but a lot of it a lot of it is when I like to for me to get that out of somebody I have to open up and tell like some really personal stories too so that they feel like it's a safe space yeah that's a strat is that's the art right and that's the thing is like you've done this so many times like you're good you know you're you're good at it then but it's just being a conversationless and genuinely caring that half of it too yeah at that half of it I think that absolutely now I enjoyed this this is a lot of fun this was a long time coming so you're gonna come on my podcast that I'm gonna go I'm gonna go you know we could you know I I think that we could actually do another one like if you want to come back and do like a part two seriously I'm flattered by the way thank you no serious I'm just curious what do you feel we missed I was I think that what I wanted to pull out from you that we danced around but didn't really get into is lessons from growing Valerius brand and like why her content did so well because she did exceptionally well and we talked about authenticity and whatnot but I think like some more tactical stuff that worked really well for her tactical stuff we can definitely get into yeah a lot yeah yeah we can get into it there there is some tactical stuff yeah so we can definitely get into that but if I may make a suggestion not to put you on the spot you shouldn't invite Valeria here too believe me she's far more interesting than I am I'll have Valeria at any time okay seriously I time I'll let her know I'm gonna see her right now okay I see her all the time people can find you on Instagram all of your handles are gonna be in the show nois is there anything else you you wanted to leave people with some logic words of wisdom words of wisdom I don't know man I'm still seeking for mine like you know it's it look at the end of the day it's it's never ending I used to romanticize the finish line you know the I to me the finish line was like to have so much money that you can do nothing and live off the interest and I know a lot of people who have achieved that but they're you know I used to romanticize that but the more people I know who have achieved that and to a certain degree I guess I've achieved the tube but it's just it wouldn't be the way I'd want to live it wouldn't be enough the interest off of my network you have a number it's not a number it's a scale of lies because some people have numbers like I'm talking that so Vivian too she's she oh you had her I think Valeria had her yeah it feels great she's like her numbers 20 million yeah because if you do the math her fuck you number yeah fucking numbers like four to five percent interest so you're making a million bucks yeah yeah so the problem with the number especially the number that's required to be able to like live off of let's say like a treasury bond at 5% yeah if that was you know the problem is is that the top gets higher the more that you climb which is something the little Wayne said in one of his one of his records but I think that's the case I don't I don't I don't contemplate this I don't contemplate it because it's irrelevant it's nothing it's a fugasi fugasi whatever it's like you know from the movie from Donnie Brasca it's meaningless it's meaningless at the end of the day it's like the people that I know that have that number that they can live like they're not happy I recently spoke with a body of mine who hangs out with like like senior billionaires there's billionaires and there's senior billionaires and he told me he's like dude they're all unhappy they're all unhappy because now they're at a point that's like they have to keep going and they don't even want to they have to it's political it's this it's that I don't know I just I measure my life differently now than I used to I just I just measure it differently I saw I mean the words of wisdom is like I don't know everything so cliche right now just you gotta you gotta just keep going and enjoy yourself man I just prioritize different shit now I prioritize my son and my cold punch you know my kids my wife your bike my bike is the best fucking thing man I told you I'm gonna about to get a second one yeah you know you know you know I know my wife's the one why she's awesome why because I said to her I'm gonna go to motorcycles she's like all right you know why she said that because she knows she can either argue with me and I was gonna say she gave up she gave them on arguing she didn't give up because she knows that she can either argue with me and I'll get the motorcycle or she can just say okay and I'll get the motorcycle listen I think when it comes to motorcycles all she wants is it for you to stay alive clearly the she asked me try to try not to buy yeah so I did my I'm doing my best I got all the safety gear I got all this kinds you go to war with what you're wearing dude I got you know the only thing I'm not wearing is my airbag best because I'm only like 10 minutes right away so I'm like I won't when you followed it it uh well I'm not not now I'm not wearing it I don't I don't wear it here but yeah when you fall it's got a sense or it it blows up it yeah it's great it's great it's great I'm not gonna invite you to get your motorcycle license I think those you know I think Gina has to get over that I'm just scared of Gina if I wasn't so fearful of Gina because she like I you know I've seen her and the same same part of the world I know I'm aware of who who you're who your girl is bro so I'm I'm staying cool I'm like the last thing I want to do is like you know have you say to her listen I'm gonna get my motorcycle license as soon as you say that you only don't have to mention my name she's gonna be at my door we know she knows I don't pull this game from some kind of a blunt weapon lesson though you know everything else she's fine with she's okay with getting a beautiful mage and David from David German he's okay with cold plunge and sauna she's okay with getting some nice guns and going shooting she's okay with kids she's okay with nice house like she's okay with all that the motorcycle is the one thing I don't blame her I don't blame her but I'm I'm old but but as a as a couple friend you are a net positive influence on us because in Miami there's a lot of great people that are not good influences that's apparently that's so you're good you're I'm a good influence because I like I rarely leave my house because I'm with I'm with our kid that is again I'm in a sauna in a courtroom and you're overdue by the way I just you know I just set the temperature I'm actually getting a second cold why for women in short what do you mean this one kills the average woman child what it no no because mine's at 40 degrees yeah and that's just difficult that's like oh that's hard it's hard for me when I did that cold plunge where we were what I did the selfie video at your house yeah but when I put the ice in there and then I looked at the temperature that's that is far below what a cold plunge is supposed to be yeah I know I'm just I didn't realize it was so cold why would you do it if you're not being extreme about it I don't know I don't know the science of cold plunge I don't know but who cares about the science it's it's more than a science the health benefits I think once if it's cold in the like 50 degrees it's it's there's no additional health benefit yeah but if you're good if you if it's a a degree difference when you being able to skate on it and dive in you have to wonder if it's like a little bit too cold but what's too cold that's just that's in your mind it's not real past that I know this is great but what's the point in doing something if you don't go hard you know do they agree what's they point if these little sissy cold plunge is it like with all respect like I don't want to be that guy but like you know 50 degrees that's why I said I'm gonna get a cold plunge for women and children because what happens is Valeria can't use the cold plunge because it's too cold and my kids won't get into it he's also like like a tenth of your size yeah so what I mean but like like there's there's less distance to travel from the cold so like you can stay in for shorter periods of time that's her prerogative but she doesn't want to do it on I respect that's where we're getting a second cold plunge and I'm gonna have it at like 50 55 degrees so my family and my friends hopefully you won't be in the camp who use the kids the kids go women in kids cold plunge and you'll use the man's cold plunge and you and I can take turns in the man's cold plunge but yeah that's that's what it is