Emily Liebert, 7 Time Bestselling Author | How to Write an Award Winning Novel

Welcome to the success story podcast, I'm your host, Scott Clary. On this podcast, I have candid interviews with execs, celebrities, politicians, and other notable figures, all who have achieved success through both wins and losses, to learn more about their life, their ideas, and their insights. I sit down with leaders and mentors and unpack their story to help pass those lessons onto others through both experiences and tactical strategy for business professionals, entrepreneurs, and everyone in between, with a further ado, another episode of the success story podcast. Thanks again for joining me. I am sitting down with Emily Liebert, who was born and raised in New York City. She is a seven time best selling author. She has an incredible career. I want to just run through some of the highlights of her career, but then I'm going to pass it over to her to really just dive into how she got to where she is today. So she has been featured in various outlets, such as today's show, Rachel Ray Show, Anderson Cooper Fox, Oprah Radio, Martha Stewart, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, in style, people style watch, good housekeeping, okay, nylon, woman's world, New York Post, New York Daily, Chicago Tribune, Boston Harrell, people.com, Huffington Post, all the major outlets. She has had an incredible career as, you know, in 2000, she was starting as editor-in-chief of the WAG magazine, a luxury lifestyle publication covering Rochester and Fairfield Counties. She was there for five years and she wrote hundreds of articles, including celebrity profiles, travel, fashion, and beauty. And then in 2009, she was, she edited Kerry Kennedy's New York Times best seller, being Catholic now prominent Americans talk about change in the church and the quest for meaning. And after 2009 is when Emily started her first, her first book, Facebook Fairy Tales, which was a media sensation that sparked intense conversation about the power, the positive power of Facebook, shortly thereafter Emily was hired by Microsoft as a spokesperson for Bing's partnership with Facebook and appeared in 30 plus television and radio spots for the brand, which was an incredible run. And then she went on to write apologies, six, six novels total, which led to, you know, her career where it is today as a writer, as a personality, as somebody who's written on and spoken on a variety of different topics, both in her career. And then obviously now what she's doing with her own personal brand, I'm very excited to learn about, you know, how you got to, to where you are today because it seems like a very interesting career path that led you to write novels, work with some of the largest brands, be featured in literally the, the, the, the, the, who's who of where you want to be featured in terms of, you know, all these different, um, press outlets and whatnot. So very, very excited to unpack that and, uh, and understand your story. So thank you. Thank you for having me. It's really exciting. And actually when you read back all the things to me, it sounds really impressive, but I'm sort of like, who is that person? Like, did I really do all those things? Yeah. And you look back. It's me also when you sort of like read it all together like that, it sounds like, wow, but, um, listen, it's, it's well deserved. You've done, you've done a ton of stuff and I, I get it. Like it's like over your career, it's true. You've, you've, you've gone into editing and publishing and to writing and to brand evangelism and, and obviously marketing, like, you know, sort of, transit, transcends all of these different fields, but just like start from the beginning, huh? Where did you start off first when you, when you got your career started? So, um, when I graduated from college, I was very fortunate to get my first job at ABC News, working for, um, Peter Jennings and I knew that I always wanted to tell stories and be in the journalism world in some way. I was an English language and literature major. I had always loved telling stories from a very early age and, um, so I got that job and I worked in television news for a little over two years and I think by that point, I looked up the ladder and I realized that I didn't want those jobs that were above me. Um, it wasn't a career that I saw myself following long term and what I really wanted to do was write. So, I applied to a bunch of magazines to become an editor and at the time I was moving out of New York City to Westchester, which is a suburb of New York City and there was a magazine called The Wagg, which is a luxury lifestyle magazine that covers travel, beauty, celebrities, food, all that fashion, all that fun stuff. And, um, I was hired to be the editor of magazine and I was 24 years old. I had never worked at a magazine before and I was basically hired to be the editor and she, the magazine, by a woman named Mary Ann Lieber, who you will notice has the same last name as I do, but I did not know her at the time. She's now my mother-in-law. Oh, okay. I understand. I was going to say this is just like a nepotism story. It's not a coincidence. You know, it was a coincidence that I met her, but it was not a coincidence that we had been last name. I ended up eventually marrying her son, although she hired me. We were strangers. Okay. And, um, she hired me and I was the editor and chief of the Wagg for five years. Um, I did everything for the magazine and I had to find the articles, um, you know, had a small staff, um, went to all the event. It was really fun. I interviewed tons of celebrities for the cover articles and it was really a great time. I loved doing that job and, um, I ultimately after five years decided that it was time to pass the baton on because I felt that I had done everything I could there as magazine. And I spent a couple of years freelance writing. I was a travel writer for many years. I wrote for a raw report, elite traveler, cottages, and gardens. Um, I continued to write celebrity profiles, food, fashion, beauty, all of that, um, for multiple national magazines and, um, then it came a time where two things happened. One, um, freelance writing sort of started taking a downturn and people were bringing a lot of the freelance writing in half to whether freelance anymore, they were having their editors write articles rather than paying freelancers a lot of money. And I sort of came to the conclusion that I wanted to think my piece into bigger, longer term projects rather than just constantly turning over, um, multiple articles a week. So I had the amazing opportunity to edit Carrie Kennedy's block. Carrie Kennedy is Robert Kennedy, Robert and Ethel Kennedy's daughter, one of their daughters, one of their many children. And um, that really introduced me to the world. And I asked her I was done editing that book for Carrie. I said to myself, I want to do this for myself. I want to write a book. And so I wrote a novel, which has never seen the light of day. And I was fortunate enough to get an agent with that novel, which it sounds like one, two, three, I just got an agent, but you actually have to write a whole novel when you're writing fiction, unlike nonfiction, where you can write a proposal and a couple of sample chapters, fiction, it's so based on your writing that they need to see that you can actually write the whole book. So with the whole book, I sent it to a cold, queried about 80 agents. And I was very, very lucky and I ended up getting I think three offers, which is a lot. And I went with this agent who I loved. And as we started editing this novel together, before she submitted it, I came up with the idea for what was actually my first book, which is called Facebook fairy tale. And that was a book with these 25 amazing stories that came from Facebook connections. And it was very timely because this was in 2009 and Facebook was just sort of exploding in the media and in the world outside of colleges. And I was very fortunate that Facebook supported the book, not financially, but got behind me and they gave me an interview with Mark Zuckerberg for the forward, which was huge because I think at the time he had only interviews with like Oprah and like, Leslie Saul or Diane Sawyer or someone, it was a real coup and really exciting. And so you were right when you said I've written seven books. It's just it's only six of them have been knocked because Facebook fairy tales is actually narrative nonfiction. So I understand. I thought I saw that in the middle of the summer on a proposal and a couple of samples after it. And we said, okay, let's put this first novel aside. Let's get Facebook fairy tales out because it needs to come out right now, which we did. And by the time Facebook fairy tales came out, I already had an idea for another novel. And I, the novel that has never seen the light of day was loosely based on my life and my experience and I no longer felt that it needed to see the light of day. It was cathartic writing it and that was enough for me. So I wrote, then I wrote You New Me When and I got a two book deal with Penguin Round and House for what ended up being You New Me When and When We Fall, my first two novels. So I second and third books with my first and second novels. And then I stayed with Penguin Round and House for my next two novels called The Secret Tweety and Some Women. And after that, I decided that I wanted to mix things up a little bit and start adding some psychological suspense to make my books a little edgier. And I decided I needed a whole fresh start and a whole fresh team for that. So I moved over from Penguin Round and House to Simon and Schuster. And I wrote my first, what I would say is psychological suspense. But I think that pretty revenge and perfectly famous both of my psychological suspense books with Simon and Schuster really straddle the line between that and women's fiction still. So while it's a little bit edgier and a little bit of a departure, it's not a conceit departure from what from the women's fiction novels I was writing. And so I am now a Simon and Schuster, perfectly famous, just came out on June second. And this is pretty revenge, which came out last year. You can see the covers are similar. It's kind of a branding. Yeah, I see. I'll put the links in the show notes too. So if people aren't listening, then they can go check it out. And now I'm writing my eighth book with Simon and Schuster as well. Oh, and I should also say that during that time, I had a very fun experience of ghost writing a book for Theresa G.D.J., who is one of the real half blinds of New Jersey. So you just went ahead first into this and you had some success. And like you said, I guess it was almost like when you put it out to 80 publishers, you got three offers, that kind of like the find the career path. Those were actually agents or agents before you get a publisher. You get an agent and once you have an agent, they sell your book to a publishing house. That's a huge, that's a huge leap into the deep end of writing. And now look at you. So is that like a nerve-wracking thing when someone wants to, this seems to be, I don't want to say passion project, because it seems like to manage the value of what you've done. But was it very scary just nerve-wracking to go in and start just writing this whole book? That's time and energy and effort and totally pivoting from a career path, like a traditional career path, excuse me. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely taking a chance, as I said, since you do have to write a whole novel before you get an agent, you are taking a chance, especially these days is the hard to sell book. You are taking a chance that you will write an entire book and nothing will happen with it. You could always self-publish it. I mean, there's that, but yeah, it's definitely a risk. And just to be clear, I didn't just stop freelance writing and give up all the money and write a book. I kept freelance writing while I was writing the book until I could make my writing. And I want to ask, because these are just the questions that I thought of when I think about writing and why people have trouble writing, I think being able to write is quite honestly one of the most important skills, like truly writing impactful things. And I just don't mean in a novel, but I mean, as like building up your own brand, blogging, writing copy for websites, writing newsletters to go sell your product. I think writing is so important, but what allows you to be able to write? What stops you from having, I guess, quote-unquote, writer's block? So I do get asked a lot about Wrenders Block. I don't want to say don't get Writer's Block. There are certainly days that it's easier to write and others that it's not, but I don't get Writer's Block in the sense where weeks and months go by and I just can't put anything down on the page. I have deadline. It's like someone else being saying, I have job block. You know, like I can't do my job. So yes, there are days you're better at your job than others. Yes, there are days that the words blow onto the page and there are days that it's the struggle. But typically when I push myself to get those first words down and those first sentences down, it does start rolling from there and additionally, I have an outline. So it's not just like the big surprise what I'm going to write every day. I do know what's coming next and that does help inspire you to write that. And then what is that inspiration that you, like what drives what you write about? Where do you get that inspiration? But we're a sort of better question actually. Where do you get an idea for a book? So I get ideas from my own life, from my friends' lives, from the things that I observe. My books are not historical fiction, they're not science fiction, they're not aliens coming from another planet. So they are based on real life, what women go through, friendship, relationship. You know, in the case of perfectly famous, it's about a mother's loss of a child, it's about two women who have big voids in their lives that they're looking to try to fill. And I think that women and men go through different stages in life where you want different things, where you lose things. As you get older, you lose people, you lose relationships, you gain people, you gain relationships, jobs change, houses change. And I write about all of those life changes. If you want, like, you know, even if you want to just put it, since we're already sort of speaking about it, if you want to do a brief summary of what perfectly famous is about. So if people are listening to get a little more context, I don't mind that also. Go for it. And then we can go back into some of the questions. So perfectly famous is about two strong women. One is named Ward DeFler, and she is a very, very famous crime novelist. She's just written her 13th book, Lucky Number 13. And she is at her first book signing at the very beginning of the book when you find out that her teenage daughter, Stevie, has been abducted and killed. And she breaks out, obviously, leaves her town in Connecticut where she lives. And nobody can find her. She realizes on all of her book deals, and she goes into kind of a secluded depression. Enter a second woman named Bri Bennett, who is also enduring a different kind of bored in her life, a lesser boy to obviously, which is that she is recently divorced. And she also has a teenage daughter who no longer needs her. And she's struggling to figure out what her purpose in the world is. She's a former journalist. She's been a housewife for many years, and she decides it's time to go back to work. And in doing that, she decides she's going to find her favorite author, Ward DeFler, tell Ward's story to the world. And in doing so, if she gets entangled with Ward's daughter, Stevie's killer. I like the plot. That's very good. That's very good. When did that, that just came out now, right? It just came out in June 2nd. Yes. Very good. OK. And I just have a couple more questions about the whole writing process. Sure. How do you, because you have six novels out and have all six hit the best seller list? They hit best seller list. Yeah. What is the formula for a best seller? What do you need to write about? Nobody knows. Nobody knows. I could tell you that. I would have to kill you. I have a idea. I don't know how it happened. I mean, I know it happened through Sam. But you can't just be someone who writes the book. You have to know how to promote yourself. DPR and marketing. My publishing house does that for me. But I also do it for myself. And I hire a publicist outside of my publishing house. So you know, Kathleen Carter is amazing. And I work really hard to make sure that everyone knows about my book. I will post on social media. I do giveaways. I send out emails. I actually partner with a brand for each of my books, which I don't know any authors aside from myself that do this. So I've partnered with nail polish brands, lipstick brands. I've partnered with General makeup brands. I've partnered with Canyon Ranch with perfectly famous. I've partnered with Waffle, which is a intimate brand, bras and underwares. And we launched a campaign called The Perfect Fit, which is your perfect fit book and your perfect fit, bra and undy. That's smart. That's very smart. Very smart. I saw you Instagram. It's really well done. Yeah. And yet for the brand about being fitted for a bra and what kind of bra you wear when you're working out, when you're getting dressed up, we did one very interesting, yes, where I was posing in my waffle bra and underwear on my porch at Sunrise with no makeup on. My very talented friend, Jen Goldberg, who is a photographer, she has a private portrait part of her company, which is sort of the door of photography and during the pandemic, she was doing front porch photos at Sunrise. And we decided it would be great to bring this into the Waffle partnership. And so I posed for her series in my waffle bra and underwear. After that, I noticed that a lot of people that were posing for her were in robes and nightgowns and pajamas, I was told you were supposed to be in your run under, just how you woke up. So, since I was one of the whoever, you were doing your honest, true self, that's all that matters, right? That is for sure. And this is my honest true self, too, this is Giro makeup, this is exactly how I woke up this morning with messy hair and no makeup. You know, this is me, take it or leave it. No, it's good, that's how you got to be and I think that, you know, I've seen every time I speak about just marketing, obviously not just marketing books, but just marketing in general, it's always about being authentic, because that's what people get, not that you buy into it. It's just real, you know? There's this girl right here who's also me, but that's me with hair and makeup. And how did you, I guess, I guess my question is, this is a funny, okay, so the reason why I'm asking is because I see a lot of people that sell books or sell products and they don't quite get everything you just mentioned about how to market, how to be personal, how to be authentic, partnerships and all this stuff. And you do see it obviously at the upper echelons, but it takes a lot to get there, but you're just sort of taking this on on your own. Where did you learn to do this? Where did you learn to market? Did you sort of understand that this is how you bring a book or product to, and you're doing Instagram lives, like you're doing everything, like you're killing it. You know, I think you, I think it's all a progression, it doesn't all come at once, but when I wrote Facebook's fairy tale, I had a lot of luck getting publicity because it was about Facebook, Facebook was exploding in the media, it was sort of this chicken suit for the soul as a kind of book and amazing stories and people eat that stuff up. They love to hear about that. And so I, as you read before, I was on the tassel, I was on Rachel Ray, Anderson Cooper, and I got so much attention for that book. And when I wrote a novel, I was told immediately, do not expect this kind of publicity for a novel. And I thought to myself, well, that makes sense. You know, there aren't these sort of aspects to it like the Facebook aspect, the Mark Zuckerberg aspect, the amazing story of the aspect, it's just a book that came from my mind. And there are a lot of authors with a lot of novels, so I knew I had to do something to set myself apart. And somewhere in the brain of mine, I came up with the idea of approaching a nail polish company and seeing if they would make a nail polish set named after the book and after my characters that we could send to everybody in the craft and do giveaways with and I could bring to my event. And it just really worked amazingly. And I got, I worked with a company called Zoya, which makes amazing nail polish. And it got the book so much publicity outside of book websites or book, you know, magazines that read articles within like, in style magazine and on refinery 29 and in pop sugar and all these places where something just a book might not get attention, but all of a sudden there's this nail polish set and the polishes are named for my characters and it's cute sort of tie in. So that worked really well. I also knew to hire a publicist outside of my publishing house because while the publicist at the publishing house are amazing, they have 10, 15 God knows how many books they're working on at the same time. So I stuck with the partnerships after that, the brand partnership and I just knew I had to be really good on social media. I knew that creating like good, interesting content was really important because you have to think about what you like to see in other people's content. And I think people want to see the real you and they want to see you talking and what are you wearing and what are you eating and what is your life like out of writing books? You know, what do you do with your kids and also like that you're not perfect and you're not that girl on the book with your hair blown out and your perfect makeup and I don't know, they probably took away half my ring calls to some like, you know, photoshopping that they do with those pictures. And specifically when I realized which I fortunately realized it very early on during the pandemic that I was not going to be able to do a physical book tour, which I did already have set up. I pivoted and this was, I mean, I knew, I knew in April, I think so many people were holding out saying, June's going to be fine, it's still two months away, you're going to be fine. And my husband and I were sitting here saying there is no way I'm going on book tour in June. And I pivoted and I set up probably probably close to like 30 events for myself, different anything from Zoom events to Instagram lives. And I also really tried to mix it up. Like I tried to do some lives with books to grammar, I did some with celebrities, I kicked it off with Melissa John Hart, which was great and we did it pre-publication. I did one with Lindsay Zarniac, who's a sportscaster. And I did some with people who do beauty and books. There were just a lot of interesting, I just one with one of the real housewives, Margaret Joseph. There were a lot of interesting personalities, interesting people. I've done a bunch of podcasts, interviews or magazines, newspapers, you have to saturate. You have to make sure people are just seeing the book over and over because as I'm sure you know, in marketing, people don't always buy the book the first time they see it, but the 10th time they see it, they're wondering why have I seen this book 10 times? Yeah, it takes quite a bit, it takes quite a bit of exposure before somebody actually makes, and it obviously depends on what the dollar value of the item is. But for even for something that's only like, how much is the book like 20 bucks, 30 bucks at most? I think the minor 15, 15, even 15, it's going to be, you know, you're, you're so oversaturated in 1999. Yeah, you'll, you'll have to see that book a few times before you're like, Oh, wait, who is this? Who is this woman? I see her everywhere. I see this book everywhere. And then I do not give away to, to get, to get more people to follow me and more people to follow you and more people you can reach. Yeah. No, it's very, very smart. For close my post sometimes so that I can reach wider groups of people and cast the net wider. No, but it's very smart. I just, I noticed it, I didn't realize that you were doing a lot of the stuff yourself. So just, you know, it's even more impressive because it's really well done. Like I, it's really, really well done. And I think that you're, you're, you're nailing it and like I think that's a differentiator that a lot of people that do their own thing could be writing a book, it could be any side hustle. Like the ability to access people through social and being personal and being human and being your authentic self and marketing that can, can drive massive traffic. Even if you aren't, you don't have like a million dollar ad budget, right? And I think that's what you're sort of showcasing here. It's, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're doing a good job. I have, I have just, I have one more question just about, uh, about the book and publishing and writing. And then I just have some rapid fire just about insights that you've learned from your life. Um, so just one, one sort of round up question, uh, what's, what's something, or is there something that I should have asked you about writing or publishing that I don't know enough about to ask you that you would say people should, uh, sort of take note of? Um, I think one thing that people who are looking to write a book need to know about is rejection. I hate to say, but there's a lot of rejection in this industry. I think the becoming an author is almost like saying, I'm going to become an actress or I'm going to become, I don't know a chef or, or something where there are a lot of talented people competing and doing the same thing. And um, I think that you have to develop a tough skin and that's my dog making noises in the background. This is the new reality. This is this new home. I know right. It's not a big thing. Um, I think you have to develop a thick skin and you have to know how to be knocked down and brush yourself off and take yourself back up. Um, another thing is sometimes books get turned into TV shows or movies and pretty revenge came out last July with option for a television series and some fabulous writers were hired. So that is in the works now. Congratulations. That's amazing. Green of salt, you know, until it is on the air, I don't believe it, but it's always fun to have someone we think that your book could be a television show. Yeah. Well, you know, so that just shows you like, you know, just do. And then as you're saying, like with your marketing, you're pivoting and you're sort of learning, but you're also opening yourself up to other opportunities that weren't initially presented. So those are two great lessons, even especially the rejection one. I think that's very important. Not from a, you know, like not to not try, but just be realistic about expectations too. Um, okay. So, uh, I think that there was that is I think that's pretty good. We covered a lot of like your career in the book. Is that we're good at there? Okay. So let's, uh, let's go into some life lesson like insight questions, um, so what would be one lesson, uh, that you would tell your younger self? I would tell my younger self not to apologize as much. I think that women in business, especially when they're writing emails for some reason and following up and pushing and nudging to get something, they often, and I know I'm been very guilty of this in the past and I don't do it anymore, say, I'm really sorry to nudge you or I'm really sorry to push or follow up again or, or you'll hear people say, um, sorry, but I hope it's okay if I ask you about this, what, what are you apologizing for? I don't serve men apologizing very often in emails or when they're speaking to someone. They just ask for what they want. And I think that I would tell my younger self just to ask for what I want. And it's always okay to ask if people say no, they say no. That's a very, it's something I've never thought of before, but that's a very smart lesson. It's very smart lesson, um, what's, what's one thing about yourself that people, uh, misunderstand about a successful writer? So I'm very type A and I really push for what I want and I try not to take no for an answer unless it's a hard no, in which case I take it, because you have to take a hard no, you have to know when to stop, um, but I think sometimes that can come off as that I'm just this tough, you know, hard as nails person all the time. And why am that way a lot in business, because business, business, that's not actually my personality in real life. Um, I'm a mother, I have two little boys, um, I'm actually, I hope a reasonably nice person. I think so. But I also think you're, I also think you're not wrong in being tough. I think that I think you have to have that persona when you go into negotiations, not, not, not mean, not aggressive, but just like, just like, and know what you stand for, but no, you seem, you seem a very nice person. So I'm very good, um, what would be, this is the big question, but I like to ask it because it's, it's so topical now with all the social justice issues that are going on. What would be one thing that we could all do to make the world a slightly better place? I think people can put their time and their money where their mouth is. So I'm actually glad that you asked this question because this block, perfectly famous, came out on black out Tuesday, which is, I'm not going to lie a rough day to launch your book because, um, you can't promote it as I learn, um, and it's not appropriate to promote it. So not only did I not promote it that day, but I did not do any events that week. So if someone puts something off, I shared it, but I didn't initiate my own promotion for that entire week. And I pushed all my events off that week and some even the following week. And I thought to myself, I can go on social media and post a bunch of memes about this, like a lot of people are doing who, by the way, did not care about any of this one week ago until it became trendy or I can put my money where my mouth is. So I decided to donate a portion of the sales to a human rights charity that was working for Black Lives Matter. And what I wanted to do is do that, but I didn't want to jump to figure out what organization it was going to be within 24 hours because that also seems an authentic to me. So I took a week to do my research, learn, listen to other people. Then I called my friend Carrie Kennedy, which is actually my first instinct anyway. And she is the president of the Robert S. Kennedy human rights organization. And I asked her, are you guys doing specific work for Black Lives Matter? Are you both doing Black Lives Matter? Organizations, businesses, and she said 150% we are. And you know, I will make sure any money that you donate is put to good use. So when you buy perfectly famous, a portion of the proceeds are going to our K human rights and being put to use for Black Lives Matter. So I say, what your money and your time, where your mouth is, don't just start throwing up memes on Instagram and I think that that's enough. Very good, very happy with that answer. Just because that's my, that's my biggest pet peeve with social activism. And it's not okay to just like a post or throw up a black square. It's the action in one month, three months, six months, 12 months that actually changes, right? So good, very good. That's impressive. And that's not easy too. You took a hit on the book tour. You took a hit on the launch. Now you're taking a hit on the revenue. You're not about it. I don't know who thinks you're an evil person. I don't even think some evil just I do, you know, I do want things the way I want them. And I can be definitely tough. That's fine. That's not. I'm sure my husband would say can be tough as well. Very good. If you could have, if you could have a conversation or dinner with two people alive or dead, who would they be? Oh, I would definitely be my maternal grandfather who is no longer with us. So I would love to be a dinner with him again. And I would say probably if that was going to be the dinner, I would want my grandmother there too. She is alive, but I would love to have dinner with the two of them again. I love that answer. That's a really nice answer. I mean, I could have said like Madonna. I know. That would also be really cool that way. Like Madonna, going to Celtero, that kind of thing, but. It just shows you it shows you what's important to you. Probably not. You know, and then. I just had one more question just trying to think of going through my list here. What was the, what was the best day in your life? And what was the worst day in your life? And why? My goodness. The. I guess I would have to say the best day in my life was the day that I met my husband because together we have two children. So I guess that was the, the domino at the beginning of the domino effect of what were other amazingly happy days in my life were my children were born my two sons. And what was the worst day to do that? Yeah, the worst day. The day. The worst day would be would have to be when my grandfather died. Yeah, he's the only really. That was very, very close to him and he's the only. Thank God, the only person who's very, very close to me in my life who has passed away. Very good. I just, you're very, you're very, you're very, very family oriented. I just, I thought that maybe the answer, but I wasn't sure because sometimes people have incredibly hard like career days or it depends. I'm not changing your answer by the way. I didn't mean to do that. I do. And I want, you know, people should know that it's not like every day of the great day. It's all right. I mean, I'm not going to lie. Yeah. Perfectly famous launch day. Yeah. But in the grand scheme of what was going on in the world, it was hard to feel sorry for myself. You know, my book is going to sell. It's going to be okay. Life goes on. I'm the only person, the only person, but I'm, you know, I'm the only person that that one day is very important to. Yeah. And I definitely had the effects in my career. No doubt, but at the end of the day, the career is a career and a job is a job. And to me, at least what's most important is that I have a healthy family. I'll be safe family. Good. And, and most important question is where do people go to find out more about you? Social website. So Emily Liebert dot com. And you can find all of my social media and all of my book links on there, but can also follow me on Instagram and Twitter at Emily Liebert. And on Facebook at also Emily Liebert. And if you're, if you're, if you're listening, I'm just going to, it's, it's Emily. So E M I L Y and then L I E B E R T because I made the mistake of trying to find your website with E I so I just wanted to clear that up. If people are trying to find it. Yes. I before E except after C. And yeah, no, and people should reach out to me for book club. Um, just if you want to write me a note, I reply to every single person. If you reach out to me and I don't reply to you, that means I didn't get it for some reason because my biggest pet peeve, which you didn't ask me about. I didn't know. When people do not reply to people's emails now that if you're Kim Kardashian, I guess that you can't reply to five million emails. But seeing as I'm not in Kardashian level. Yes. Right now I reply to all my. That's all for today. Thanks again for joining me on another episode of the success story podcast. You can download or stream this podcast wherever podcasts are available, including iTunes, Spotify, Google, Stitcher, I Heart Radio and many others. You can also watch this podcast on YouTube. If you haven't already, please subscribe and share this podcast with your friends, family, co-workers and peers. Please leave us a rating on iTunes. It takes about 30 seconds as it allows other people to find our podcast and let's our amazing guests reach even more people with their message. And remember, any rating is fine as long as it contains five stars. I'm Scott Clary from the success story podcast signing off. You