Dr. Rebekah Louisa, Founder of The Film Festival Dr. | Marketing, Media & Quentin Tarantino

Welcome to the success story podcast, I'm your host, Scott Clary. On this podcast, I have candid interviews with execs, celebrities, politicians, and other notable figures, all who have achieved success through both wins and losses, to learn more about their life, their ideas, and their insights. I sit down with leaders and mentors and unpack their story to help pass those lessons onto others through both experiences and tactical strategy for business professionals, entrepreneurs, and everyone in between, with a further ado, another episode of the success story podcast. Alright, thanks again for joining me. I am very excited to be sitting down with Dr. Rebecca Louisa, who is the founder and CEO of the Film Festival Doctor. Now, Rebecca began her career in the film industry in 2008, working as a producer on some of the most successful national horror film festivals, named the Arbatoire Horror Festival. About 10 years ago, she created her own company, and it could be a little bit dated, probably a little bit more than 10 years now, but the Film Festival Doctor, and that's not to her academic past. So Rebecca does have a PhD in film and audience research, her thesis based on the work of Perch Hero, Quentin Tarantino, also one of my favorite, favorite names in film. Rebecca and her team will continue to basically create prescriptions for success, and they are entirely focused on transforming the lives of independent films through Film Festival. So what they do is they give films, filmmakers, visibility, opportunities, recognition, currently she has offices in London and LA, and she has helped win over 650 awards and counting for her clients and supported over 688 different creative pieces across the world. So very excited to sit down and speak. Thank you so much for joining me. And I'm really interested to hear a little bit more about your story. What is a Doctor of Film, and how did you get to here? Yeah, so I, you're right, so thank you for that wonderful intro, that's probably the one of the best entries I've ever had. So that's correct. So I have a PhD in film and audience research, and I was very fascinated back and say when I was doing my undergraduate degrees in M.A.s in Tarantino, I loved his films. I'm a big fan, even like films people don't like of him, and I'm very much into his work. But what I really found interesting was not just his filmmaking, but how his fans responded to his films. They all seem to be extremely passionate and also male. And I was very interested in that, and I wanted to do research on that in the world of academia. So I did. And then because it was going so well, the research and my supervisor said maybe she would think about a PhD, which would be like, you know, a doctorate, I was a bit overwhelmed by that, because it was like, you know, this massive book, like, you know, 80,000,000 words, and all about Tarantino, and having to, you know, assess kind of theories about him. And I was like, I'm not sure I could do that. And I thought, actually, I want to do it. So I know I can, because that's limiting belief, I can do this. So then I moved from England to Wales in the UK, and it's called Aberystwyth, and very cold, but also very charming town. And it was there where I did the PhD and learned a lot about myself and Tarantino in that time I can tell you, you know, inside out, but also from that journey, I didn't expect to get where I am now with him, because my plan was at that point to become an expert in Tarantino and his fan base, and then go into a little bit of academia and teach about Tarantino and other things like that. So that was my plan, you know, settle down and live in Wales where the sheep are, and it's all cold. But I thought halfway through is that I got the bug for Film Festival. So a friend of mine, Gareth Bailey, he is a manager of this theatre, Aberystwyth Centre, and he was asked to put on a horror film festival by the Council of Wales, and he said, do you want to help out? Neither would I. I thought, yeah, why not, this sounds like fun. And that happy distraction and the hobby became a, like, a vision into, this is actually is my sole purpose. I really want to start doing more in the world of festivals, and I enjoyed producing it, you know, co-producing with the team, find the films and talk to filmmakers, but actually it was during this time when I found there was a gap in the market. I used the PhD skills to figure out that there was a gap in terms of the no filmmakers were able to find someone to support them to get their films into festivals. And that's where we are now with my company, it was then born in Aberystwyth. The film festival doctor in 2010, when it was very tiny, it's grown since then, obviously, who do in every day sheer hard work and determination, but also people were very negative about it too, saying it wouldn't work, no one does it, you know, there's only one or two people across the US and it doesn't seem like it's in demand, can people afford it? So they all look at limiting, I was at the time, a bit nervous, I thought, no, this isn't sound right, I just kept at it and then the kept growing and growing and now we have the company. So the academia career did then finish, I did all I could on Tarantino, I don't want to do anymore, and the PhD I'm very proud of, but it was then literally a new chapter moving to London to do my company. Oh, thank you for the story, I appreciate it, so that tees it up. So when you're going so deep into a certain topic, this is actually a question that I would actually have for anybody who's gone so far into academia and had their PhD, when you come out of that level of granularity and a topic, how do you go in and just start a business that is very, it's very removed from the granularity, you have to think about like all the different sales and marketing and operations and things that I think I would assume get pushed by the wayside when you're doing a couple of pages, I don't know how long this paper was on Tarantino, but I'm sure it wasn't short. So you have this huge paper, you've researched every aspect of his style of the stuff that he does, and then you choose to go start a business and then that business is successful. So how did you make that transition? What were the first steps? Because you didn't have, when I look at a classic entrepreneur at somebody who's worked in their field, they've worked in a business aspect for like 10 years, that is a classical definition of a successful entrepreneur, and then they solve a problem in their industry after working in their industry, but they've also been exposed to the business side of thing. You didn't have that. No, that is a great question, because as in hindsight, I wish I knew about business coaches and about how people can help you sell a business, because you're right, because I had no business experience at all. I mean, I was very savvy and organized, because my background before I went into academia was being a PA, so I would always be good at organizing an event management, so that would always be a good thing. But business skills in terms of like being in systems, funnels, all that kind of thing, was pretty much like, I had no experience whatsoever, so I was learning on the job, which I wouldn't want to do again, but I did, because I learned the skills on the job, and then I was pretty much then in a way, I learned on the job, I learned a whole new set of skills that were obviously not what I got to or university. So in a way, because I found the niche and the gap when I was working with the festival, travelling around the festival circuit, talking to filmmakers, I knew what needed to be done, and also I didn't let people who were being, who were like, not particularly very open-minded to say, it won't work, and it's never going to be doing it kind of thing. You might have to work for free to prove it works. I was very much like grounded in the fact that I wasn't going to let that stop me, and I kind of then got ideas of how to win the business, but yeah, it was hard, because it was only say through about four or five years later, when I was getting a bit overwhelmed because we had more work coming in, we had great results, I was working like some burner, and then I thought, I need to get a system in place, I really do, and that's when I then met JC Smith, who I worked with, and John De Milito, and those people over three years had just to to transform my business, and helped me put a system in place, offering packages, offering different types of consultancies, putting a system to the point where I can understand cash flow, and none of that. So it was pretty much like having to like, as I said before, just, you know, kind of go with it, and then use bits to make it, there was no backbone, there was no infrastructure, so without that, it didn't fall, and it was still going well, and it was growing, but then I got, again, I got burnt out by it, because there was no system, and when I found those people that just gave me those methods, I'm so grateful for them, just now I'm having better business. No, that's, that is very important, and that's sort of trial by fire, so it just shows you, it shows like tenacity, it shows like a little bit of, I guess, your passion for this, because you didn't have the systems in place, and I think that a lot of people do have systems in place, and they still fail just because they don't have that, so you know, I guess maybe the, maybe the ability to complete a PhD is, is indication that you're passionate enough about it, because that's not easy. So what is, I want to know more about business side of it, but I'm just really curious, what is it, what is a PhD in, and like, does anyone get one? Is it, what is it like, how, like, what do you have to do for it? Have you met Quentin Tarantino? Does he know that you've written pages on his work, like all these, all these things of the PhD? Yeah. Yeah, no, I know actually that he knows of the thesis, because this is back in when I wrote the PhD, I started doing the research was in 2008, and I use, as a case of the most recent film of that time, which was called Deathroot, part of the Grindhouse trilogy, sorry, quite a stable bill of figures. And back in the day, this was before the launch of Facebook, so when I launched my online questionnaire, it was all done by forums, and there's this big forum, and I think it still runs now to a degree, I think it's going to Facebook now. It's called The Tarantino Archives, and that would be like the hub, but all of Tarantino's die hard fans talking about everything, they convinced the Vega to Jackie Brown, wise and derated to wife or rooms, no one likes, you know, all these kind of conversations. And that was the place to find these spans to get my research. So in terms of what a PhD is, obviously, they're very different to all types of different type of industries, but in terms of film, mine was what was called an audience research PhD, so it's where you research and analyze the responses from actual real film audiences by the means of questionnaires, groups, interviews, that kind of thing, and then use the findings to see what patterns arise and what innovative and unique findings you find, compared to what you're studying. So mine gives us Tarantino. So I look to the area of emotional response, and there's a very small amount of research in film theory about emotional response to film, and what I did was to assess it if it was actually valid and say, shall we say accurate, how they think people respond to film. And I used Tarantino because I know it's for films inside out, but also because he has a hugely passionate fan base that I've was found really interesting after all the time I did him, and they were very good because they really liked all this, they were a part of it, they made the night with nonsense, because the way they respond is not the way how they think people do it, they're extremely passionate, the point where they seem as a father figure, I've got it like figure, and also the way that they become engaged and emotionally attached to his films is by Tarantino's dialogue. So it was fascinating findings, you know, really, really interesting. And the PhD actually, although obviously I don't, nothing to do with my, well, it's something to do with the business, because obviously I'm in film, but it's more that I use skills of project management into my entrepreneurial skills with my business, but I think that's why I held it together because I know how to, with the PhD, how to break a big put it down to bite-sized chunks and not to lose things and also to see if I'm start to finish and have the commitment there as well. So when you, when you go so granular, and this will lead to your business, don't worry, when you go so granular on, on understanding how somebody like Tarantino is so successful, because you're understanding the verbiage, the stylistic elements of a film, is that something that you can use to pull out and see and look at other films and say, I know how psychologically people respond to films, I know that the film that you've put out is going to be successful for reasons that I've seen other, like when Tarantino is like a legend, he has similar stylistic elements and that's going to grip people, that's going to tie into people, that's going to get them emotionally. Is that something that you can see when you, or maybe consult of all these independent films on how to market and how to, on how to get their film out there, or is it, I don't know, am I pulling at things that aren't there, or is that, is that, um, well, when you say about with Tarantino, he's got a unique fan base in how they respond, but also there were similarities in terms of, they also have like a very, not as passionate, but they have a very much like a, a really admire, probably, from a rigorous, his, and those kind of films which I classify as being cool, you know, so cool directors like Sim City, um, not so much by kids, um, and also films like, um, what's that one with Zack Snyder, um, or that it's not cheesy movies, but the ones which are kind of the very much, like, they're very stylish films, stylish ones which tend to have quite the same kind of following emotionally from Tarantino's fans and also those at like that kind of genre, but it tends to be based upon the old tour kind of signatures, which tend to be quite individual. So in terms of how I like help my clients, um, I can see some of their films in terms of how they appeal to audiences, but it's very much a unique kind of trademark that Tarantino and people I would do best have, um, as they are, which they want to have a kind, I mean, even Spike Lee hasn't got the same kind of emotional fan bases, he's a little bit more out there. I was looking, I was just looking at, uh, at Zack Snyder's, uh, filmography, yeah, they have like, uh, like PS 300, um, suicide squad, justice league, like I didn't even, you know, I don't know the behind the scenes as well as I should, but I don't know the dead, I guess he worked on as well as a director there. So he has a ton of like, yeah, so the cool, I like them come the cool, the cool films, the cool films, yeah, festivals that like cool films be calling cool festivals. So sometimes they have a good match there and a lot of festivals where it's helpful that Tarantino has its own film festival, its own film, its own cinema. But in terms of does he know about it, I think, I know he does, you know, he's never contacted me about it, but, um, but because the guy that runs, runs that forum that went back in the day, the current Tarantino archives, he told him about it and he did so like he knows about it and this question has happening now. And the response I got from all the fans was overwhelming, so they're aware of it. And also he interviews Tarantino a lot as well and always tells him an update of what's going on. They're quite in a way close to him. Yeah. But he does like academia Tarantino, he's not anti-ademic, he likes Carol Clover's women, chain stores and massacars, because they're not going to be too heavy for it, but more stuff that's going to be more I can around this film like. Very, very interesting. And I don't know the world of film festivals and I think that, you know, I'm just a consumer, right? I'm so far removed, I can just walk, but I still, I can understand how the style is, and is that something that any sort of filmmaker focuses on to build that style or is it just, it just happens because that's the personality. Like when I think of Quentin Tarantino, I almost think of him as doing things like almost like accidentally on purpose. Like he doesn't, he just had a style and it worked in a double down. Do you find that that's, is that true or is it more of like a truly strategic academic process when these people build things out or it depends on the person? It really depends upon the person, but Tarantino does has that style because he knows kind of, he makes films for himself, not everybody in particular, which I think is also a good thing. Because sometimes some people make films of say sometimes for festival films, they're making it for the festival themselves, you know, to prove something in terms of how they can make movies. It needs to be the authentic voice still no matter what you do. I like that Tarantino is clever that he pretty much can copy a film like, because I'm a reservoir dog, it's a city on fire by Ringo Lam, but a lot more stylish and more entertaining than that one was, but it is the only unique spin on it. I think the best time in the world and not just Tarantino, it's called fiction, and that you can imitate. If they did a remake of that, that's not allowed, you know, and they tried to remake Psycho, and that didn't work. That would just be like, not even going there, you can't remake that movie, it's so unique. So, again, you're right, it's all about pretty much, does it on the fly and does things like for him, it's all about being an individual, because otherwise it wouldn't be given your own voice to the movie and still make it. Yeah, very true, very, and that's good. Okay, so let's speak about what you're doing and what film festival doctor, film festival consultant. What is the landscape of film festivals, you know, when you said you first, when you first started, there was not many people doing what you do. So, what was the status quo for filmmakers before an individual like you came on to the scene? What did they do to get their film out there? So, what they pretty much did was hope for the best and have no strategy. Sounds replicable, sounds like a great strategy, but for the best. So, back in the day, let's say, like 2008, 2007, there was a platform called without a box, and that is where you can submit your films to festivals. That's now gone, it's called what's replaced it is the fantastic film freeway. Without a box was hard to look at and manage and it was hard work to use actually, but either way is it was just there. So, what filmmakers did was just gone without a box, look at festivals and then put that in the shopping cart, put that in the cart, put that in the cart, and then spend a fortune on festivals that could be wrong for their movie. There was nobody on without a box, the website going, hey, is that festival right for your film? Even giving tips. So, basically, it was literally just hoping for the best and put it into festivals and seeing them come out there. That was before they got thousands of submissions, obviously, now there's a lot more submissions, it's not much better to, you know, it's still tough anyway, but that's what they were doing. So, I found this out through research just by talking to people in bars at the festival, so I always said to them, okay, let's have some questions. So, I said, what you like most of our festivals and what you dislike about the festival. And they all said, we love going to festivals, getting drunk, meeting new people, seeing our film on a big screen and just like a little tiny bimeo link. We also love meeting new people and actually doing more work with them. We could actually get a whole new connection sitting around the world with our film. Festival is a abundance of things and we love them, but what is stressful is that we don't know what we're doing, you know, there's nobody who can actually tell us what to do or which festivals we determine for the best and going on film freeway. I was spending a lot of money and I was like, oh, okay, there's a need here that they need help in terms of guidance, getting into festivals and which ones and also saving money. So, I thought I can make them money by not spending a fortune on the wrong fees and paying me my work. So, I was like, hmm, this is going to be a business segment and it was a pattern that kept recurring. Every festival I went to when I saw filmmakers, I said, oh, where are you going next with your film? They went, oh, I went for the results to come in, but of course we're just going to see what happens and we're just getting out how we do our poster and all our materials. We just need to talk to somebody. So, at the time, there was nobody. Sometimes PR companies would put them into some festivals bigger ones, you know, because they knew the people. There was nobody just actually focused on that niche literally how to get your film into a film festival and, you know, to give them like a big list of which ones and why, which ones have them achieved their goals, how to budget and also how to help themselves the filmmaker. So, I thought this is a dire need. Also, it's a need where people are like almost desperate for it. They're wasting money in the wrong ones and going to one or two, not really embracing the whole circuit. So, I wanted to do that and really push to do it. But at the time, there was one company that did it. We found online. So, me and a friend of mine, we were like, I said, I had this idea. He was like, oh, let's see if anyone does it and it's on the internet and he said, oh, there's one company. And then charge it very minimal fee and they seem to don't do a huge amount. And you can, you can build on that. That's what I did in their base in the US. And they still are now and they're really, really good company. And since there's been a few more, but not many, not like isn't there's not as many people that do this compared to sales agent who's self-films or PR company that promote films. It is still a very small niche, but it's one that I have done to the point where I wanted to be going from a, seen as a luxury service to an in-demand service. And that's what I have achieved so this time. Not just me by myself, other people that do it, but that's one of my company to be seen with the value to help filmmakers. And how did you, from turning it from a luxury into an in-demand, you're basically creating a market for your service so that it's a status quo almost to get into a film festival now. This is how you do it. It's not, you know, there was, there was the no box application or what, I think that's what it was called, you mentioned before. Without a box without a box without a box application. And that's how it, and that was a status quo. So now you sort of redone what the status quo is. So as an entrepreneur, as somebody who's strategizing, was it just, was there any particular steps you took to turn this into a status quo? Or was it just, was it marketing at certain festivals? Was it just getting a mass amount of clients and spreading it by word of mouth? I'm just wondering how the evolution over the past 10 years of, of your business, I guess, mapped out a whole industry. It's kind of been all of that. So it's me going to festivals, talking about what I do, either to people at networking events or me going on panels. It's word of mouth, and it's also talking to people one to one about what they need when they just talk to me as friends as well. So it's a bit of a combination really because when it first began, no one knew about it. Obviously, I had a good brand name and I had a good logo in the websites. People come into the shop, but it was very much like no one knew it because there was no reputation or establishment. That I found the hardest point because obviously I got this all from nothing and then wanted to make it into something credible. And that was by listening to my clients as well, what they wanted, what the market wanted, what the gap was, what I had to do differently over time and what their needs were, and also listen to more festivals, what they wanted. I knew whether the perfect matches were. So it was very much like keeping on top of everything during this period and not letting the business balls slip. But word of mouth was the best because when people started to hear about it and the good news that the client's got and the word of mouth, people came all towards me and they could trust me. And we and my team to do a right job for them, look after them because filmmakers need that, which a lot to put into business. And obviously people do have issues with some of the work with all that kind of thing, but they need just someone that can re-take it away and just get it into festivals and get it seen and get it out there really. And do you find that these filmmakers struggle from the same, I guess, they're so into the creative, but they don't know the rest of it. So they love the creative, they love creating something, they love their passion, their art, their craft, but they may not know how to, again, like, you know, using your service, get their work, get their film out to the world. So when you work with somebody, it's obviously you're lining them up for the film that are the festival that works best for a film. But is there like a strategy that you use to just out, because you've won, okay, so here I have 688, is that the right number, 688? Oh no, sorry, 650 awards. I'm sure that's going to keep going, obviously. It has. It's now 745. 745. So it's not just saying, hey, go to this film festival and play your film in that time. There must be some sort of strategy, some marketing you bring in the right people, you showed up the right spots, you've given some guidance. So what is that outside of just pointing them in the right direction? So it's known what festival program is one in terms of what they want to program for their audiences and what their personal program and taste is. For example, some festival programers hate, they just don't personally like slasher films, they don't even slasher films for that festival. They want more films for the older audience, they want more kids films that are more feeling to men and women who are fathers, mothers and daughters, and not just those who I just got a little bit, just for kids. So it's all about what the festivals want, whether locations, and also what kind of festival programmers really like themselves, is that will pay a big factor into decision making process. I mean, you pointed up on really well, was that a lot of my clientele, not all of them, but a lot of them, don't know what they want. So I always have to unpack that and say, okay, so you made the film, what do you want to achieve with the festival circuit with the film? What are your goals? And that makes them think, ah, okay, then they have to figure out about money all last minutes and times. But some of them are planned ahead and do come, do come to quite early, be put in the budget early, but some pretty much do it as they go along, which is fine, it can still work, but I'm there at the end to say to them, so what do you want to achieve with the film now it's done? A festival's distribution, either way, we could help you for sure. And then after they work or they after they work to get their film into a festival for an indie film, what is the path to success? What is the box is it have to be ticked so that it will go from independent film festival to something that, you know, again, I'm going to reference myself because I'm the definition of a layman in one of these topics. Just like, just a complete consumer, what did they have to accomplish for me to hear about it? They went in a ward at a film festival and then do you help them with distribution? Do you have channels that you optimize for them so that they can get it mainstream and get it on Netflix, they can get it in, you know, like a mainstream, I guess, theater or for a lot of now where no one's in going to theater, Netflix is probably the place to go, but what's like what's the next step for somebody to be considered? Because the awards the first step in success, but unless, unless, you know, somebody sitting at home has ever heard of them, it's not going to be the epitome of success that, you know, you'd say a Hollywood blockbuster would have that has a huge budget behind it, so it's obviously very difficult. That's apparent, but how do you, how do you help them with that? And is there some milestones that they can achieve or a game plan that they can sort of double down on that will help them get there? Yeah, that's a great question because the way that I approach creating a film festival such as G is not just always film festivals. So for example, I'll give you this as a good way about answering those questions. So there is the one obviously way it's when I began was saying to my clients, helping them and consulting with them to create a student I don't focus bespoke to their film film festival strategy. That would be a load of festivals they should submit to, but the way I'd encourage it for feature films, especially not so much short films of feature films, is to add several layers. So that is your film festivals to start off with when you're awards and get noticed on the circuit and build your presence. And also include within that then your kind of idealist of sales agent who will lay with sell the film when it has finished its run to Netflix iTunes Amazon all those kind of places or mark whatever whatever suitable and also include as well when you're at festivals your PR plan and your marketing plan because you're going to need to start making some noise we'll hear about the movie in the mainstream and also in the independent sector to know more about this film and then when it gets picked up by an agent it'll then obviously go further afield. You have to think of all those areas as well at this time now before we do the festival circuit that we have everything in place needs to push the button when we need to do so. So it's like an eel-like process never very linear like first you do that you do that it's like all the same time then see what results come in so do all the festival submissions that that that you want to do whatever comes back see what comes in first what the patterns are wish other festivals like it is it more genre festivals and it is say general festivals is it more women's festivals and short festivals whatever is going to come in and then also think about when is the right time to press that button to talk to sales agents to sell it and then get your PR done the minute you get your eel premiere and get it out there so that's how I kind of approach it so it has those goals achieved want to achieve in the first place. And I'm also very curious just given our current landscape what are you doing for your own business as well as for your clients given that the entire at least for the the short future of media of the way we view films of the of even I'm assuming film events that has somewhat changed so what what is that done for for you have you found strategies to pivot are there things that you know that you've seen in the industry that just trends that are changing because of like COVID-19 and whatnot. Yes so it's actually a funny story we're not funny story but a story to tell is when this all kicked off this pandemic I was in the U.S. and I was there turning cinequest film festival in San Jose and I was going into L.A. to do some work there I was watching my own event ordinary filmmakers in acid and there was also a film festival taking place towards the end of my trip in Idaho. So every day was about coronavirus. I got there was about coronavirus all about this every minute so it was new about it it was quite mad. And then during a saray in cinequest there was a big announcement that South by Southwest and massive film festival in Austin Texas was cancelled. We were like hang on this must be pretty serious to cancel an event like that and then obviously by that point every other festival was having to reschedule today on the year or go online. So I saw there was film there was filmmakers being extremely anxious about what was happening because obviously things were changing. So I did all my research with the people I was talking to us in the request and all my other kind of colleagues in the film industry sector and they were saying that you know they have to reschedule because it's too much of a high risk of infection and contagion when you're in a bigger back film festival. So I knew them what exactly what needed to be done. So I reassured filmmakers and the way to adapt to it was to prepare for the end of the year. So between March and July you'll be looking at festivals you know watching them online not going to them and then from August onwards that was when festivals were rescheduling to go live. Obviously having to implement certain distancing and all that kind of the rules which is fine which needs to be done but you need to get your film to festival them the year. You need to obviously submit now because deadlines are still happening and they're going to start closing around you. It was important to act as normal now the time to plan, prepare for the end of the year next year and start doing submissions so that you get in the film and the system and it can start to be reviewed. So a lot of filmmakers assumed that every festival was cancelled in the world after Sabbath, after West. I said no no they were going online although moving to later date that to kind of reiterate the same point which was fine to make that clear and to keep submitting. Otherwise you miss your chance of getting the film seen at some point this year. So it was having just to that kind of move really and also to me because I was having to I did it very quickly and I saw the new problems where and how to fix them. No it's going to say that's a smart response and it's the response that you should have just because people that just throw their hands in the air and this is again whenever I speak my experience is just in business in general not particularly films but I'm assuming it's very similar especially because this industry could be one where somebody who produces a film somebody who's trying to get into event you know this happens and they just say oh whatever we're going to just like we're just going to stop trying we're going to not put any effort and we're not going to do applications but that's obviously the wrong attitude right because there are events happening there's remote events there's online events there's web events and all these different things where people are still competing for the attention of the audience and there's actually an opportunity in my opinion because there's so many people that are thinking okay look this let's just write this year off there's so many businesses that are thinking that and it's the incorrect assumption because the people that understand how to bring their product to market regardless of what's happening in the world the people that can bring their film to a film festival a virtual film festival people that still prep ahead for a film festival that's slightly different because of social distancing or guidelines that are implemented those are the people of a win so to have somebody you know who that's giving them that advice is you know spot on because I think that it's still going to be a competitive market and if you can I actually think it's going to be a better opportunity for businesses to stand out now because because everyone was so sort of shell shocked by what's going on yeah no absolutely absolutely right um I mean you get your spawn um I mean in terms of like people say giving up that is the worst thing she won't get a win and it's like what's that what's the kind of thing I live by it's a quitter um never quits and um a quitter never wins and a winner always never quits that's it um so but also I had some clients say who are potential clients I said oh how's the film career like I used to probably don't have more post-production because obviously we've got a bit more time they went yeah but it's no point do anything is there especially was a cancel I went one out no it's like it haven't to be scheduled so again it's that you know she don't tell you to submit though when everything's back to normal and what that's going to be to win the year when we can start right to normal and you're going to submission then it's going to be next year so people I think it's all about timelines a lot of them say we've got to go online halfway or if you submit the film a while ago and you got in all the festivals now running went into one life not online it's just one of those things you know very good and and that's something that I think is like I said it's impacting everyone but the people that can figure out and navigate it right now that those are the people that are going to be winning um and and that's an opportunity for like for for sure um the one thing the other thing I wanted to ask the folks I saw you've brought this topic up in a few of your past interviews so I think it's something that you're passionate about but women in film um perhaps uh what's holding women back in film and why and and what can be done to sort of help I guess allow women to be successful in film um I saw I saw this on one interview and I thought it was interesting because I've spoken about I spoken about this with a few other individuals like women in leadership positions in for example uh software sales they're they're grossly misrepresented I know nothing about the stats about um women in film so I would love for you to just give me some stats about what's or not even the hard numbers but just like high level what what the environment is like for women in the industry and and why it's difficult for a woman to succeed is it is it just just something that is just always been that way um is it just a very male-dominated industry um is it what are the reasons or what have you noticed and how do we help that so one thing I have noticed no matter what goes on in the background like with them me too and times up campaigns I thought that would maybe make a difference in terms of seeing more female led uh films directed by women uh more like produced by women too I thought there'd be a surge in that but there wasn't as much as I expected so it seemed like it's always the same it's talking nothing really actually changing is hard for women to get a gig to direct a feature film it's planning a short film directed by women loads of them which is great they're doing it for themselves there are funds just women in some areas in the UK and also in the US which is great and there is a colour too which is good for the obviously with them the niche um but also it's one of those things where there's a lot of women support groups and they support each other but it becomes like a little bubble there's never really like you know going out of that bubble to mix with them and you don't have men be you know their assistants and they're like you know HODs and they be the leaders doesn't really change that much besides Katherine Bigelow there's not a huge amount of like female directors people can actually say off top of their head you know it's something I learned in film series it was very much all about you know the men of our names Andy Warhol or Mara City Tarantino or Drika's Hannah Thanga all these people it was always men and there was very few with women um obviously it's like Potter there's kind of people there are legends but it's always a high percentages men and it hasn't changed no matter how much people shout about it and with me too I think the best thing out on me too was probably Wednesday going to jail when his lawyer said they wouldn't even go to jail yeah I think that was the best success ever um but in terms of seeing like more creativity women not a huge amount I mean even festivals have now made in space a more women focused themes you know like directed by women kind of themes which is great after me too but then when me too kind of died down the pandemic comes in it seems to have gone back to what it was no change really so it's disappointing but I do work with some fantastic film directors and she's going to hopefully get her feature off the ground she's a visionary she's a big budget sci-fi and she's got a short one I can now it's just finished called proxy and I love her vision it's amazing she's fantastic um and she's done it all by just shouting it herself and doing it herself and not asking anybody else to do it for her or a man for that reason which is great you have to have that belief in yourself in the dry and some women don't was have that because they say all the men's got the role the man is doing it which needs to be about themselves so they psychologically default to what they know the industry is which is yeah which is obviously not um which is not proper that's not that's not good so to break out of that I think that I think that you know you do have these like these visionaries that create incredible content and that sort of paves paves path for other people you know other people that will look up to them um see the incredible things that they're doing and then obviously understand and then as you see new people coming into the industry their perspective of the industry is not for example your perspective of the industry because they came into it at a different time when there was you know different people that were leading and and those are the ones that were sort of the you know the Tarantinos and the Rodriguez is some of those names will change over time but it's definitely not quick um because you know if you're of course the Me Too movement was very good for for protecting rights and whatnot but it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not pushing people to the pinnacle of of these big names these big roles I'm saying that because I don't know the names and I'm hoping that you know you you know all the ones that are sort of up and coming and whatnot but I don't know any big female director names like you know the we just mentioned so I guess that it's it's a slow moving change in an industry I just didn't realize that there was not so many names in in film and that's kind of disappointing I didn't realize that industry was so male dominated but I'm also not in that industry so I I don't have a finger on the pulse of it like you do so I mean the just converts that quickly is um I think two women who were most inspirational in the more mainstream world of film but also Stroke Now TV is Jennifer Anderson and Reese Witherspoon they had a show the morning show which obviously touched upon those issues at Me Too so kind of show it itself when it all kicks off in the background that was quite an exceptional kind of breakthrough I thought but in terms of independent film there wasn't as you say that one name or there's women but it's not like it's a little loads of women it tends to be more outweighed by men by men basically so yeah so it is a shame there's not being a dramatic shift as I thought there would be with all of me too go in the background how it would be but no it's pretty much gone back a little bit to what it was not been a huge amount of progress yeah it could be and it also could be just because if you think about the names we mentioned like like these like almost like these like living legends those names took years to build right so if if you have an up and coming that's going to start creating these feature films before they turn into a household name they would have had to it quite literally take some time for all these films to be produced and created before I've heard of who's the who's the lady who was doing that one film that you mentioned oh there's my client is Sophia Banks so Sophia Banks so she's gonna have to produce a few big name a few big feature films before like everyone's gonna recognize oh that's a Banks film right it'll take some time and that's I think that's just the reality of the of the industry it's not like you can produce five feature films simultaneously and in three years you've produced all these blockbuster hits it takes quite literally time to build this stuff out so it could be some there could be some names in the making that's that's that was my point there and maybe that the industry maybe maybe the industry shifted hopefully the industry shifted somewhat so that it's not that it's not just focused entirely on what's already been but there are some names that are building themselves up and then maybe you see a shift in five years or something like that because of the work they put in over the past five years that would be that would be that would be a positive positive thing um yes exactly yeah um okay so that before I want to ask just a few more questions about your life lessons experiences insights before I move back and sort of focus on you again um was there anything about the current environment I always sort of like give the floor because I'm not smart enough to ask all the good questions so you know about um current media landscape uh you know current um film festival landscape what you're doing uh I guess even even women and film these are kind of the three topics that we spoke about is there anything that we didn't sort of bring up there were really good points that we should you know just get on record or or was that uh was that pretty uh all inclusive Mikey thing was CB19 was COVID um because I think it's also a lot of people are buying into the fear which they're being fed and I think if um if you just literally remove from the drama and don't buy into it you can really see your film for flourishing and to not presume or assume without actually speaking to somebody about it that works that field every day um that was my key thing I think a lot of it is about self belief comes into these kind of things that are pandemic happens um because I've achieved businesses growing a lot since I've been um uh in um in UK um because I've got lots of things I wanted to do and I managed to put those in place that was like launching my blog and I'll be launching on my course in September being put in that all together in place and I've got new clients and it's been doing really well so it's like another right another month in in the in my office really you can really busy but just not traveling we'll go into festivals um one of the i would to also add into that is it's maybe off the topic a little bit in terms of important points um but I think it's also important to round oneself who are filmmakers and creative types um because in this industry it is a bit mad and it's important to just stay grounded and meditate as you can and to not kind of like um adjust yourself or buy into kind of any drama or on yourself believe do you have to believe in your vision both as an entrepreneur as businesswoman as a filmmaker and if he was if he dumped and to speak and you believe while people was kind of gossip or you just take everything but uh what people believe is the truth you'll end up being stuck and not grow and you're going to be thinking small so I always bring in spirituality and meditation every day into my entire life you've spoken about um this is a really good okay so this is a really good point because I want to ask you a little bit more about what you've learned over uh your career and just sort of like advice that you give people but uh let's speak about um spirituality limiting beliefs uh that you incorporate so what does that mean to you and and maybe just describe uh how you incorporate spirituality and and removing those limiting beliefs from your own minds so that you can be successful so back when I first started my company up in the early days it's like when I moved to London um people always said that filmmakers have no money and they were able to afford new services and you couldn't do it any like a high price what you worth and I thought to myself at one point almost believed it almost and then I said to myself when I saw my mentor for the first time I said um my business won't work anymore because um people say filmmakers have no money I think charged like 60 pounds for the hours session and she said well that's limiting belief she says there are people that can afford your rate and your full worth just have to attract them to find them they do exist there are some that haven't got you money that's true there are some a lot of them that do so you need to think big and stop thinking small and also turn that around she said to me a golden rule she said is that when you have a limiting belief pop up remember that isn't true it's a belief there's no fact to it you can turn that around do you just told me nobody can afford your service you have to charge a low of e and people that can and if you charge that low of e they'll wonder why not charging a higher fee because their energy is much more like a mountain level than it is say the ground level so think bigger and your energy will raise your vibration and when I did that everything changed and in between that as well is that I used to be very very and I was young and really anxious I had like panic attacks and hair fall out um but then as that's because I had so much fear in me because I didn't know how to cope great with the universe and how to um like you know work as a team to get the results done to manifest um without having the ego driving and being selfish and not being grateful so when I learned how that worked through various books um but also with mentors and guides um I then realized well was going slightly wrong on a piece then when I put that into alignment into place I sort of all come together one thing was let him go was a big thing I was gonna I was gonna say because when people when when people listen to this um sometimes it's hard for them to conceptualize if they're not if they don't understand how to remove limiting beliefs if you know you you hear the words alignment you share the words manifesting and um it's very confusing people that haven't understood or researched or whatnot so I think that um when I when I hear this stuff I sort of want to provide context and a lot of it is is just I don't mean to simplify it but not stressing about things knowing that like there's so many there's so many things in your life that you stress about that you shouldn't stress about like knowing that um whatever decisions you make as long as you're moving in the right direction like that they will it'll work out for say I'm not phrasing it properly but it's really just like trusting the process is probably the best way to put it and and really just and and really just you know if you if you know that you're putting in your 100% effort if you are if you're moving in the right direction um the small things that stress you out you have to let go of those because you you know that you're moving towards your end goal even if it isn't as quick or even if you have some losses or failures um and and what the way I and you can correct me if you think differently but I don't want to put words in your mouth the way I envision manifesting and the way that I envision alignment with with the universe so to speak is really just making sure that every action I take every thought that I take is in line for my end goal is meant to be and when you have that constant mindset of end goal long term like North Star metric so to speak um the small things they become very small they become non-important but also every action you take subconsciously will be towards that end goal um and I think that if you incorporate that into your life into your day and you're always sort of pushing forward and that's what creates success after you know five 10 years um that's my that's my that's the best way that I do it and when I break it down for people to help understand like when people mention manifesting and whatnot because I think that I only I only provide context because the second somebody doesn't manifesting I think they think that you know like the secret and and if you think about a five dollar bill you'll get a five dollar bill but there's so much more to it than that so I just wanted to sort of break it down I don't know if you if you disagree or agree feel free to comment but that that's just my my I guess layman interpretation of of how best to think about it if you haven't done a lot of in-depth research into it yeah no I agree with that that's why that's why I just got that process also think I'd add to it is um to whenever you write your goals and your manifestations you set what you want to achieve and your intentions is I want to go one thing I was told was to make sure that it isn't selfish you know I want to be a star I want to get this it's always say it's for other people as well like it's for not just you but also for others and you're helping the world and servicing and putting the service out there for others and not just all about you but I think it's like when you there's a book called energetic um selling and branding and then if you kind of close a deal with a clientist comes all about you when it's forcing them to say yes because you want that deal you're gonna feel the energy and they're not going to want to work with you whereas if you say like so what do you want we can help you this way we have this and we have this other service it's gonna really help you achieve the goal in this way and I'm very passionate to do it for you love to work on it and it becomes new to an alignment it's all much just trying to get the sale she wanted to get the books up and you know whatever whatever reason you desperately for it you're gonna feel the energy and it's the wrong energy to have and I learned that the early days and also now is that I think ah okay that makes sense and also let him go because in that process as well so as I'm for people things that always circle about round one of my mentors told me so I had a client of the day who now has become a client and she reached out to me and said why is my film not going into festivals and just ask why so I told her why and then I said that this best service we this service for you and then she said all we've got really no budget them um do you have any kind of discounts and I said well I could do this package for this package for this fee um and then she took a while to get back then she came around and said I'd love to work with you when this thing can really help me and I just let it go and I said well I've got given the best offer I'm not going to go too low to point where it makes me not desperate I'm going to the point where I'm going to help her because I want to help this film get seen because it is really sweet and she's an actress who wants to get back out there she you know she got a good agent she didn't start to treat this all this kind of thing and she deserves to and I thought well I've given the best offer and then I can then circle back around and maybe someone else comes to replace it let him go in the process I forgot I didn't forget but I just did it was there but I just didn't every day think about it that's smart and it's also um it's also important to understand that when you're coming from a place of desperation and just like that self I guess only only driven by self um the the the the the passion I it's not even passion it's almost just like agreed uh to that point at that level um it burns out and and it's it's you can't maintain it you can't maintain it if it's if it's for like I always again just another parallel for context like you could be working making you know in a career $200,000 which is which is an an incredible salary salary for uh for most people and if you hate your work you're you're you're gonna you're gonna hate your life and uh there's yeah you know and you're and that's why you know maybe the maybe $200,000 is is a is a lot of money for a lot of people but I mean let's bring it down to a more practical level um if you're working in a in a job a lot of people would change jobs for $10,000 or even $15,000 they take that bump up right they think it's gonna make their life so much better but um I always advise against just jump of course if the job's great and you and you want to work there that's fine but do the due diligence and understand that the $15,000,000 is not gonna make your life that much better there's a lot of other factors that could impact your life and and how happy you are exactly and and and $15,000 had a job you hate you're you're gonna you're not gonna enjoy your life so um so I think that you know if you don't have those reasons why you're passionate if you don't even as an entrepreneur right if you go through if you go through all this like just really the shit like for 10 years and you and well you you won't last 10 years if you don't if you're not passionate about what you're doing you're gonna burn out you're gonna quit and and especially as an entrepreneur like you have uh you have years of not making a lot of money before before it's realized so you better not be doing it for the money day one or or or it'll never last um so that's all very it's all very applicable and it's smart to be reminded of that I think that a lot of people you know it's very easy to very easy to jump into something for the money and obviously it's not saying that if you can't I want to be so sensitive right now because people are laid off and people are you know having hard time putting food on the table so obviously if you need to take something to to make sure that your needs are met you know your shelter your food food your safety it's fine but I mean in a regular environment when when the economy isn't crashing and you do have luxury to some extent to make a choice I would say always focus on things that are long-term you're passionate about that you can be happy about because that's really what's gonna make you know that that is the secret of happiness in life um exactly exactly it is that is that's what the secret is that happiness and also you're not being entrepreneur because it means that you obsess with your business and also you really want to solve that pain that that potential crime of yours has obviously the pain that my clients have is where do I smit how do I do it what do I do and when do I do this that COVID-19 happened lots of questions you have to be there for and if you remain grounded and know your stuff so they're gonna need and help them as out that pain. The only other question that I wanted to ask I saw at one point in your career you were a lecturer and mentor at Middlesex University so you speak with a lot of young students of I'm assuming young and aspiring filmmakers writers what is one piece of advice that you would give them um that perhaps you could even say you would tell your younger self. The good question and one thing I would always say would be to one is believe in yourself and two is always have a plan. Whether it be ten year plan you can work on that start it up and go backwards the belief is the key thing because there are people who were saying to me that the business wouldn't work go off the ground as they were maybe subconsciously they without knowing was like you know not having myself worth and self-belief um but then I just thought hang on it's an opinion it's not a fact it's opinion I'm gonna straight stay true to me and what I believe what I want to do is that will be what wins and I won't give up so it's really stunning film and believing in yourself. Another another question I like to ask um where do you go to grow yourself so do you have books that you enjoy podcasts audibles mentors um things that you could uh you could recommend people that are listening they go check out and it could be for film it could be for just you know you mentioned you read some stuff on on on limiting beliefs on professional and personal growth so do you have any any titles or any names of people that people would like to share? Yes so I definitely recommend a podcast called How to Fail which is Von Japaners and you can find it everywhere you know like um you know Google I choose that's spotted by the whole lights on there that's really good because it is Von Japaners and it's saying it's not terribly scared of failure because of how good it is and you do it to help you grow and to go the next step. There's also books um I have a few books that I like and there's one a particular and this is a really good one of you want to research and read when I talk about the manifestation kind of process so it's called Cosmic Ordering Made Easier by Ellen Watts the UK author UK based publication but she was the one that taught me about cosmic ordering it's kind of similar to manifestation to a degree but this you might like you ask the universe what you want and it really helps you sharpen your perception when you see the orders come in I know it's weird but I'll explain it so for example she says which talks in in the book about how you place a Cosmic Order just start off by doing uh car parking so say to the universe is what I really love and appreciate is to get a parking space for our arrival to um loud and high street but the good of all concerned wasn't the end so you know so it's all of those that need it and obviously drive down the road and you like well okay let's see where the parking spaces and there it is is either empty waiting for your car just pulls out and you go in and then the other stuff happens too and how you think about how to have to work these things how to be not selfish and how to be not loaded loads the things in there and I do that every single morning when I do my goal it's what I wanted to achieve I put it into an order so for example did it today I said this morning when I got up at round six I said oh what we love and appreciate it's one of my films to get into a film festival with a good of all concern so people say that all there be no festivals giving you invites now what's kind of thing limiting belief what comes in seven hours later was an invite to film festival at the moon I didn't know they're going to get back to me today but they did so let go of all expectation in terms of which festival which film and I try to plan it and interfere and it's literally just what's going to come in and how to look forward to the surprise so that is a great book it's on like Amazon not gone and not going to UK for sure but it really is a good technique to just so differently how to ask for things and how to open the universe and co-create and then also as I said it sharpened a perception so when you see what has come into the coming different way to what you might expect you actually get sharper in how you look at things and also that helps your business by extension as well that's those are all those are all the questions I have um was there was there anything I guess the only question that I have left is if people want to connect or they want to find out more about you or maybe some of the films you represent or whatnot um where would they go so the best place to go for that information they can listen to my podcast they can listen to my sorry they can read my blogs and they can know all about me my story that which kind of is said um it's a little bit more about me and my team and also the films you work on which is my website that is the film festival doctor dot com and you can grab me there on email whatsapp whatever so on is the uh the podcast is there too yet the podcast is there in the podcast uh tap in the blog and also shop which has ebooks as well you can get an audio book um and I'll soon be launching in September an online course which is four weeks called VIP film distribution which is all about how to implement that key strategy when in together your sales strategy your festival plan your marketing plan PR and it's all for those who are new or established everyone can join it's masterclasses twice a week from that that's all for today thanks again for joining me on another episode of the success story podcast you can download or stream this podcast wherever podcasts are available including iTunes Spotify Google Stitcher iHeartRadio and many others you can also watch this podcast on YouTube if you haven't already please subscribe and share this podcast with your friends family co-workers and peers please leave us a rating on iTunes it takes about 30 seconds as it allows other people to find our podcast and let's our amazing guests reach even more people with their message and remember any rating is fine as long as it contains five stars i'm Scott clary from the success story podcast signing off