David Novak - Former CEO of Yum! Brands, Podcaster & Best-Selling Author | How Leaders Lead

Too many people in business, I don't care what business is they start out and say I don't want to make a ton of money But they forget how you get there and the only way you'll get there is by having the people capable the place that you come from and how you operate in this world Is really cemented in these really young early years of your life? You feel like some of that impacted you in a major way. Oh Absolutely, you know people always said how do you know that so much about this person don't know him that well Well, well, I'm kind of able to to get to that because I had that as my upbringing and I learned that it was a necessity I was able to learn how to size up people very quickly You got to stand for something. I want to make the world a better place by developing better leaders. You know, that's my overall Strategy if you put the people first then they're gonna have The capability to satisfy more customers. You will be on your way to growing whatever you happen to be leading and then you make money Welcome to success story. I'm your host Scotch Larry the success story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network HubSpot has been a huge supporter of the show since day one and I chose to partner with HubSpot because they support entrepreneurs at the end of the day I'm an entrepreneur a lot of people that listen to this show or entrepreneurs and it's hard and HubSpot creates solutions For entrepreneurs, so it's not as difficult one of the number one problems that all entrepreneurs have is keeping customers happy It's one thing to acquire customers keeping them happy boosting customer satisfaction is a whole other can of worms It's not easy, but there is an all-new service hub from HubSpot and it makes it infinitely easier to scale customer support and Increase customer retention. 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Look aboard to it We're gonna have a lot of fun One of the main things that you always speak about is learning and how important it is for sort of your entire career And I think that's something that everybody can agree with but Let's start with a different angle on learning. What is one major misconception about learning that people hold? Well, I think one misperception could be is that if they ask others for help or if they Look like they need to learn something it means they don't know anything, okay? and and it's just a lack of confidence To really reach out and learn from others and I actually think you show people more comp By seeking learning from others But I think the the some leaders they feel like because they're the leader, you know, they got to know it all and You know they they really can't go out and seek that that that that know how or or that knowledge And I think that's that a lot of times that develops into a fatal flaw because from what I've learned Scott is that, you know the best leaders in the world have a uncanny combination of confidence and Humility, they're very very confident. They know where they're going They inspire other people with their vision and the belief that they can get there But they're also humble enough to let people know that they need them and that they don't know everything and I think that that humility says I need you and that's what really inspires people in the end You know if I ask you your opinion on something, you know, I'm recognizing you for having worth and You know, I think leaders have really got to to really understand that that that learning and being the learner being the The the number one learner on your team being the number one leader Learner on your in your organization that will spread and that's going to get you the best results in the end Because this is I'm assuming what you applied over your whole career This is like everything you're teaching this year is your like your look your lens on life. That's it basically Absolutely, you know, I'll be the first to tell you I'm not the smarter smartest guy in the world But but I am I don't know if anybody that is for curious or has has a bigger belief in and and learning and and building know how to make Well, I mean even before we started You're asking me about how I mark on my podcast and I'm just thinking I'm like my goodness Look at the look at the businesses that you've built and the brands that you've built and it doesn't even matter You know what maybe everything I just told you you already knew maybe everything I just thought but the point is There's always that that moment where if you humble yourself. There's like a what if there's that one gold nugget that you didn't know That could be a huge growth lever and whatever it is you're trying to accomplish and you'll never even get there You'll never uncover it if you're you know, it's about like getting rid of the ego. It's this is success Well, one of the things I I love about what you do is you amplify your podcast You said you had over 50 pieces of content that'll come from this as you go forward Now, you know, I I don't even come close to that with my how leaders lead podcast But you know, we believe in amplifying and and and one of the things that that we did recently which you might be interested in is is we we launched a new app called How leaders lead and what we learned was the biggest problem in The leadership development category is people don't have the time You can give things away free, but they won't take it because they don't have the time to implement it So, you know, we kind of went to school on like Bible devotionals You know, where you know, you can get a do it devotional every day So we have leadership devotional now so you can go to how leaders lead app and and get it under two minutes clip From the people that that that I'm I'm interviewing all the time, you know, some of the best the leaders in the world And it is taking off like you can't believe because you know, it's it's bite size and people get it and You know, I'm amplifying the regular podcast that I do on how leaders lead so it was so interesting I think that You know as as as you look at younger generations is like the this the shorter the better the more attention grabbing the better But this is turning you know, this changes how you have to market a product the service a podcast or whatever everything is shorter and like more concise and condensed I'm curious You know, you look at the the companies and the brands that you've built Um, what are the lessons that are relevant to marketing your show what are the lessons that are not relevant when you look at the different kind of product Which is who you are and and the thought leadership that you put out into the world because different than a consumer good Well, I think that Everybody has a brand You have a brand Scott. I mean you you stand for something. So one of the lessons is is that You got to stand for something You know, what I want to stand for is I want to make the world a better place by developing better leaders, you know, that's my overall strategy and Vision that I have for the the David Novak brand and then what I try to do is reinforce that in everything that I do now I did the exact same thing when I was running KFC pizza and Taco Bell Okay, you know, we understood what Taco Bell was all about and then we tried to amplify it and reinforce it and everything That we did the other thing is is that I think that one thing that applies is you have to solve the problems That your customers or your listeners are having you know, what are the problems out there? I always say that if you can solve the single biggest problem That occurs most frequently You will be on your way to growing whatever you happen to be leading okay, you know, that's one of the reasons why we started doing shorter content Okay, so that we could solve that problem that it takes about an hour to listen to my podcast Which is great is growing and people love it But you know, we're giving people another shot at how they can get that content and you know, I think that's really going to be very very powerful So you got to solve the problems. I think that's very applicable. I don't know anything that I did in marketing My brands that isn't applicable to what I'm doing right now, you know, I just wrote this book You know, how leaders learn Yeah, so what did I do there now when I was at young brands one of the biggest things I wanted to be was a know-how builder And that was one of our cultural values You know, we want know how builders we want people seeking knowledge wherever they can get it and sharing it whenever they find it Okay, and you know, that's a very very powerful thing and so when I was gonna write this book how leaders learn You know, one of the things I did is I said what's the best selling book in the history of mankind besides the Bible Well, it's you know, how to win friends and influence people. Yeah, so I I pull that thing out Reddit, you know, it's had a short chapter stories so basically I basically copied that approach with how leaders learn so we have like 27 essays 27 chapters buildless stories from the best leaders of the world whether it's Condoleezza rice or Tom Brady or Tony Shoe from Dordash or a Neil Bushry from workday, you know, Sean new norion from Adobe. We got all these great people, okay and I put these in into chapters that can be read like in 15 minutes And you can pick it a book up another time and read it, you know, it's not this great ordeal that you have to go through But I learned from what Dale Carnegie did now. I don't know how many books I'm gonna sell But I think I'm gonna have a heck of a lot better chance to sell a lot more books Which by the way Goes to the windy no back diabetes institute, you know, that's where all the profits go. I it's all non-profit But you know, I'm I'm like you. I mean, I'm a competitor if I'm gonna do something. I want to do well I want to sell a ton of books or and you know, so you try to learn and you try to apply it um So when you're looking for that thing That people need you need you're looking for anything to people once you've identified that with the podcast with the book You try to do some shorter form content and that's sort of that's feeding the feeling of need of people that don't have a lot of hours in a day to listen to a long form piece um I'm so curious about Because I know the podcast world I do not know I do not know the food world the hospitality where I don't know any of that world at all so I want you to go back and I want you to sort of paint a picture for The the reason why young brands and all the all the subsidiaries were so successful What was the need that you solve because there's a lot of food out there a lot of options How does you know pizza hot Taco Bellic how do these types of brands stand out because I don't know how to identify that need But I know it's there because I love all the food. So what what need are you serving? Well, I think there's two parts of this you know the restaurant business is all about people I always say if you put the people first And you build the people capability Then they're going to have the capability to satisfy more customers and then you make money too many people in business I don't care what business is and it's particularly relevant in the retail retail and restaurant business Is they start out and say I want to make a ton of money Okay, but they forget how you get there and the only way you'll get there is by having the people capable So the first thing that I did Was uh and the first thing I would say we did was focus on building a culture where everyone really counts Where we really recognize people for their worth We got people fired up. We made them feel much better about what they were doing They they were felt more involved and more committed and I think that ultimately leads you to making more your customers happy and and uh and Ultimately making more money If you look at let's just take Taco Bell for example Taco Bell was our most and still is is young brands Most irreverent brand. Okay, it's a fast growing brand people love it. It basically owns the category You have of quick service of the Mexican food, you know around a 70% market share You know, but what we try to do is understand What the the customer issues are and one of the things that we learn we came out with three products got Okay, we we put them in a test mark. We had a case of Dia We had a grill stuff burrito. These were the first two. We put them in the test market and said hey come to Taco Bell Try the case of Dia. Hey come to Taco Bell, you know, try that grill stuff burrito. No sales grow none Okay, then we then we really tried to understand what's the problem that Taco Bell is having In Taco Bell's biggest problem was we learned the single biggest problem that occurs most frequently at Taco Bell is the products were too messy to eat So it's hard to eat a taco when you're in the car, you know, it's it's like you and you're driving now That's a big problem 70% of your business is coming out of the drive through Okay, so we took to the case of Dia and we took the grilled stuff burrito and we reposition them as portable and easy to eat So we called the the the case of Dia the hottest new handheld on the market Okay, and we got Jeff Bezos to do the advertising now sales are up 12% Okay, do we took the grill stuff burrito had people driving through the The drive through and the cars tilting to the right and up Okay, because the grill stuff burrito so heavy we call it the heavy duty portable Okay, and then we said this is working so well because that that drove like 9% sales growth Let's develop a brand new product and we created the crunch wrap The crunch wrap was the the product of the year when we introduced it, but it's all position as good to go So that's how we applied a lot of our thinking and and then we really understood what the what the talk Obell brand was we knew that you know as you it's people going for the the most in life Yeah, you know young hip cool. We did live moss was our advertising the theme line and you know Taco Bell is just knocking it out of the park now Just knock out of the park now and it's because that market share is wild absolutely Yeah, I mean, it's you know, it's it's it's it's just an amazing brand, okay? And and we try to do the same thing with kFC and and peach that in in different ways Yeah No, and I love the process of testing and iterating and we're gonna go into all this I want to bring it back now that we sort of framed how you think about building and and and growing brands You were you were raised in the trailer park, correct? Yeah, absolutely So I want to understand You live in a trailer park you moved frequently as a child um What do you think that that did for? E how the effect that that had on you as a child? How do you think that impacted how you lead how you how you Connect with people how you hire how you lead with empathy how you Uh, give agency to people like everything that I feel that the place you come from and how you operate in this world is Really cemented in these really young early years of your life Do you feel like some of that impacted you in a major way? Oh Absolutely, you know, one of my chapters in my book alieiders learn is is is like learn from your upbringing Okay, and you know, I talk about the fact that you know, I did grow up in a trailer park I met I moved every three three months and my mom would tell me David you better go make friends Because we're leaving okay, and you know, and because three months later We would hook up our government truck to the trailer along with the surveying party We go to the next small town and so I was able to learn How to size up people very quickly You know, I was able to figure out who the good people were who the people you needed to stay away from who I wanted to be friends with And that was something that really helped me and and and in my in my business You know people always said how do you know that so much about this person don't know him that well I well Well, I was I'm kind of able to to get to that because I had that as my upbringing and I learned that it was a necessity It was really important for me to really try to understand the the lay of the land and how people thought and and who got along with who and what And you know, that really helped me as I was trying to build teams and bring teams together and and that was very influential The other thing is is that my mom and dad were extremely hard workers Okay, and you know, you know It I learned from them that if you want to get something done you got a work hard to do it Okay, and you know, I You know, I I've always loved what I do and that's made it easier to work hard But you know, I think it was part of my upbringing um So yes, I mean absolutely it was key and fundamental to any success that I've ever had It's so interesting. I you say like you've always loved what you do But I don't think many people When they're when they're growing up they're they're saying I want to be a CEO of all these different restaurant brands So when you say you've always loved what you do maybe go deeper on that. How did you learn to love what you do? well I actually think That's so important I write a chapter on really pursuing your job enjoy learn to pursue your joy because you know When I was in college My first two years of college were very mediocre. I mean I had a lot more fun party and then I did study I was not a good student. I wasn't really proud of myself on that front okay But then I took an advertising class and journalism school and I fell in love with advertising Absolutely fell in love with so now instead of being a 2.5 GPA I end up getting a 4.0 And I end up, you know Being the advertising man of the year at the University of Of Missouri, which is a Alva good journalism school, okay now. Why was that? Because now all I wanted to do was learn back to learning again All I want to do is learn how learn about advertising how it works What's the best way to get good at it, you know, and that was the key So when I started out in the in business I had a big advantage because I knew what I wanted to do. I wanted to be an advertiser So I go into advertise and I actually started out as an advertising copywriter And I love thinking about how I was going to write this ad, you know There's nothing more sobering Scott to look at a blank sheet of paper and know that you got to come up with the idea and go selling You got a marketing background. You know what I'm talking about, okay Well, you know that really taught me How to learn how to how to how to how to be creative and when you're an advertising agency You learn how to work with creative people as well That really paid off for me, but I loved it But then I realized that you know what I don't think I necessarily want to be a copywriter I want to get into the business side of advertising And so I changed jobs got into account management work my way up in account management Loved learning all the time about you know how to how to make make Customers happy and out of advertise to them and you know that was fantastic Because I loved it. I mean and when you love something you kind of run to work You know, it's not like you know a hard thing to do Um, and then you know, I kind of got into this situation in the advertising business where I kind of felt like It just wasn't for me because you know in the agency business They have this thing called an agency point of view You got to come to the client with an agency point of view Well, sometimes I didn't necessarily agree with what the agency pointed with you Wasn't even though I was up at the top of running the account and everything The creative people would want to do something and I wouldn't necessarily agree with it And I'd go to free to lay and try to you know, you know Show them an idea and they they'd look at me afterwards and say I don't know Could you bring this advertising idea to be and I would say yeah, you're probably right because I didn't like it either Okay, and so I wanted to control my destiny and that's when I moved to the client side became the the chief marketing officer At at pizza and now I'm back into the game where I'm loving it all of a sudden because I have I have control of my destiny I'm accountable. I'm not yet And then I was able to take all of my know-how on how to work with creative people and that helped me Get great advertising campaigns and pizza hot. That's why I got promoted to go to Pepsi and run marketing the sales for Pepsi But I was just always doing what what I love and then you know, I happen to get into Food service and I love I love KFC and turned around KFC and in a few years as the president of KFC and Roger and Raco comes to me says David. I want you to go be the CEO of free to lay And I say no Roger. I don't really want to do that because you know why I love the restaurant business I love people. I love food. I love marketing. This is this is my my business So I turned down a much bigger division to go be president of okay. Yeah to stay at KFC And then they gave me pizza to run and I didn't know it at the time. PepsiCo was planning to spin off The the restaurant business. So now I'm running two brands. I've been perfect positioned to become the head of that company But it was all because I I followed what I love It it it was like you know, and then you know as I was running young brands You know, I focused on the things that I was best at you know building culture working with people You know marketing and food, you know, I really love love food I love to create products and get into the lab with our people and work on it You know and so man I was a really happy happy person You know You did something that I think is so smart. Obviously you're following what you care about So you put a hundred percent hundred and ten percent of yourself into it I want to just take a look at how people look at careers now in 2024 because I feel like people Want to pursue what they love to the point where they leave companies quite quickly Which I think is not a thing that was happening as prevalently as when you were sort of on the come up And you were growing now people are putting into years. So how do you stress What is your advice for somebody who is in their career trying to grow and they want to maximize a potential opportunity How do you how long do you give it To know if you should stay there or if you should go because right now people are jumping ship very quickly And I think that if you were 20 in 2024 You may have not had the success if you jumped to different opportunities as quickly and not given the time Where it's due with all the different brands you worked with I think if you're going to be a jumper, okay, you know, you're heading towards entrepreneur land Yeah, okay, I think that you pick up a lot of experience Then you get to the point where you figure out that I want to be an entrepreneur I've learned enough now. I'm going to go do it And that's how you're going to really really be successful, okay? If you want to be a successful jumper, okay, you know But I think if you if you really want to move up You got to build a track record you got to build a results everywhere, okay? I always believe this You you should stay in a place as long as you're growing As long as you feel valued and as long as you have somebody investing in you and helping you learn Okay, the minute you don't feel like you're growing the minutes you not you're working for a jerk that you know Is not going to go go away in a hurry, okay? That's when you need to start thinking about hey, it's time for me to go somewhere else, okay? But if you can grow in the same place if you're going to be in the corporate world the best track records you get Okay, that's going to help you move up the up not only in that company But then maybe make the big quantum move to another company down down the road But I think you need to put some some wins on the on the on the board If you really want to go the traditional route of moving up and in companies So growth I think is the key it comes back to am I learning you know back to that same thing we're talking about here Am I learning or not if I'm not learning man if I'm learning I'm dying, okay? So, you know, you got to you got to get going You know, I I did a podcast yesterday with Steve squery from American Express Steve grew up in America's press 40 years Okay, 40 you came to CEO. That's a hell of a that's a hell of a story. It's been sit CEO now for seven years, okay? But that's that's a hell of a story, you know, and you know what I asked him, you know Why'd you stay so while I was always able to to keep learning and keep growing and yeah, you know I took on jobs that maybe other people wouldn't want to take so learn this another thing I write about learn from doing the hard stuff He managed you would you know if you remember this but you why 2k, okay? Yeah, yeah, I was I remember it I'm not that young he year 2000 you look so much younger than me. I you know Maybe that's because I I got to put the t-shirt on I don't know. Yeah, but anyway You know, but he did he took on the white 2k project now I remember white 2k that was like all the world was gonna In you know, you had to get all your technology ready and all this he took that on and he got to present to the board He got all this visibility Because you know, he was doing the hard stuff and he was learning but America's press always put him into in a learning position So I think you got a you got to know you'll know if you're if you're Stale and you just keep thinking you're just going through the same old same old same old You got to get off your ass and go get a better job. Yeah, yeah And you and you spoken about like so not just getting off your ass getting a better job if you're not if you're not learning But also you have to deal with your own imposter syndrome about what you're able to do and you I think you've done that Repeatedly as well. I think that's something that you talk about imposter syndrome a lot with entrepreneurs Um, I don't think you really Really speak about it not you like I don't think that the It's not it's not communicated as well to people in in jobs like I think that it's good to push and to go for stretch goals and to do the extra work And you know, it's interesting because there's also a culture of just do what you're paid to do but my career success has always been Based on doing more than what I've been paid to do And it's worked out quite well. Yeah, it's worked out really well for you But you know the people who just you know do what they're supposed to do They're heading towards mediocrity They're not going to get all the cookies in the cookie jar someday. Okay, they're going to wake up someday go why not me? Well, yeah, you know, and you know by the way, I talked to a lot of young people And there are a lot of people out there that want to just grow and get things done and you know They they don't want to just you know do what's expected there I think there are a lot of people that are really trying to make things happen and that's what makes our country great And that's what I think will make them ultimately great But that's why you did what you did Scott. I mean, you know you built technology companies now you're doing this You know, you're you're pursuing your joy. You love what you're doing You're spreading your knowledge all that stuff makes you happy Other you know other directed people are the happiest people in the world Okay, and I'm sure that's what gives me joy. I'm sure that's what gives you joy. Yeah, yeah, it does It definitely does. I mean, that's why we this is why we do this right um So let's talk about let's talk about learning a little bit We've sort of woven in learning into a couple different things you spoken about But your book is how leaders learn so you took a whole bunch of Lessons from your career from people that you spoke with you and you spoken to some incredible people But you recognize sort of three different Things or three different types of behavior required to learn. So let's talk about those um Maybe you want me I can go through them right now So I mean, and then you can sort of yeah because you have So you can if you're gonna try to learn properly you have to learn from anybody and any experience That has something newer and then valuable to teach you you have to learn to maintain an open curious mind security OCD, you know the forever student Very important and then learn by doing things that need the doing or that will make the biggest difference sort of three Attributes of learning that are important. So let's go maybe expand on lessons that you've Experience personally or some of the awesome people that you've interviewed Go by one one by one. So learning from anybody Give me like a practical example or a way that that has impacted your career in a major way Well the first thing a great one on that is a chapter on you know Uh learned from people who know what you don't And came when I came up in PepsiCo. I was the marketing person and so I went to Wayne Callaway who was a chairman of PepsiCo and I'd always have meetings with them every quarter and and You know finally he asked me What do you want to do in your career? And I said well, you know, I'd like to be a president of division He said well, you know what David you're a really good marketing person And I said well, I'd really like to be a president of vision He said you're a really good marketing person. I said no, I want to run something. Oh, you're a really good marketing person Well, I walked out of there And I knew that I was going to have to demonstrate that I was more than a a good marketing person So You know the chief operating officer job came up at PepsiCo. The company So I go to my boss at that time Craig weather beg him for the opportunity tell me can fire me in six months if I do a Bad job, but give me the opportunity to demonstrate that I'm more than a marketing Okay Now when I got that job, it's got I didn't know anything about bottling I'd been into a bottling plant, but I'd gone in sort of as the marketing person where I'm walking around and I'm thinking about what creative ideas I got to get done you know while I'm in this bottling plan. I wasn't really paying it any attention So I didn't know anything so what I did is I went to the people who did I found out who the top operating people were at PepsiCo The company brought them in asked what's working? What's not working? What they would do if they were be and you know Then I used my power to get after that then I also went out into the to the bottling plants and met with the front line these people know the business better than anybody else I would buy him coffee in the morning and we'd sit down and we'd talk for a couple hours about what was working What's not working and these people knew what I didn't and then I applied it now So one of the things I talk about I used to think that Being an avid learner was the key thing that really drove success You know what if you're an avid learner you can learn stuff for learning sake The real thing is can you turn the corner and pair that learning with execution Okay, that's when you become an active learner and that's what I write about in the book How do you become an active learner where you actually take the learning and pair it with execution And that's exactly what I did when I was the chief operating officer I learned all this stuff Then I used all the power I had to come back and put the processes and discipline in place To get people working on the things that I knew were the biggest problems But I couldn't have solved all those problems. I couldn't have done it. I didn't know anything about operations But man, I get I got a lot of really good results and a real hurry because I learned from people who don't Who who learn from people who did know a lot more than me. Yeah Exactly, and I think that I think that also like there is a little bit of a a culture of accumulating knowledge I think people like to listen to podcasts and they like to They like to read books and they like to do all that stuff But you mean you got to apply you got to apply that's what differentiates Scott You know how many times if you've seen people I used to drive me nuts, okay? You know you go to a three-day seminar you say oh that's really terrific you come back nothing changes Every time you you don't happen so much so like I taught a leadership program at young brands And one of the things I talk about is learn to teach Yeah, because if you teach then you'll learn to know it even better and you'll share You're not hoarding your knowledge. You're you're you're you're building the capability of your people But we did a I did a three-day program called taking people with you Which I I wrote a book called taking people with you the only way to make big things happen and To make sure that people didn't just come in and learn About my approach and then just go back and do the same thing I had 30-day follow-up 90-day follow-ups and six-month follow-ups where they had to Show what they were doing with the single biggest thing It could have the biggest impact in our company Which is they had to come in with that project when they came to the program Then I had and then I followed up and and and they had to demonstrate to me that they were they were putting the learning and putting it into use Okay, so you they're actually like you're you're doing like a specific call to action after a seminar Yeah, and absolutely yeah, yeah, I mean people go to these seminars and they go back and I am if I pick up something But you know if I'm gonna spend three days teaching people everything I know about how to take people with them to get the single biggest thing that they're working on done Okay Then I got to put some sort of mechanism in place that drives execution Yeah, and you know another good example this for me personally When I became this the head of young brands. I was the marketing operations background now Not didn't know how to work with the investment community. Okay, so I found a way to get into Warren Buffett's office in 1998 and asked him how to work with the investment community said David. He said, you know You got to tell him you're in a tough business. You're gonna win more than you lose But you're gonna be doing the right thing and tell him What the problems are that you have that'll give you credibility Now I'm a salesperson, you know, I was like, oh, man. We're the greatest. Oh for you. We're no problems at all You know, you know, but then then what I started doing I said now if you buy our stock You need to realize that we potentially could have this happen or that happen or whatever and then investors Would start arguing with me and say that's not really gonna happen. That's fine But I was sober selling, you know, I learned a sober cell from from from Ward Buffett and it was something that I thought was very very powerful But I put it into use immediately when I started going out to Wall Street and and talking to investors Just want to take a second and thank the sponsor of today's episode HubSpot now HubSpot has an incredible podcast network the HubSpot podcast network My show success stories part of it But if you love great podcasts you have to listen to imperfect action hosted by Steph Taylor She cuts to the chase she dishes out actionable strategies on online marketing Content creation social media and more Steph is your marketing obsessed friend. She's been in the trenches for years She shares what works and what doesn't so you skip that costly trial and error if you crave friendly Educational content that gets results in perfect action is your new favorite podcast check out in perfect action wherever you get your podcasts When you what percentage of of a of a CEO or leader chairman Whatever's job is market-making. I didn't even think about that. You had to do that regularly as well Yeah, I think it's the one thing that the CEO has to do Okay, because you know, you've got other people doing other things. I had presidents of Taco Bell Pizza and KFC and you know But it when it comes to growing the stock and telling the story and getting people excited about what our future was Internally and externally. I've youed that to be my job. So you know You gotta you gotta watch what you save up Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you do you you have to be a sober salesperson. You gotta not get carried away You know, you gotta and you gotta do what you say, you know Yeah, but the reason why our company did so well. Scott is we had 13% earnings per share growth for 13 straight years in a row Yeah, okay, you know That that gives you a little bit of credibility over time and and that wasn't me That was just the organization and everything that we were doing together. Yeah, of course Second thing curiosity so Being being a student all the time. I think it's super important You were showing me this like when you when you list off the things that you talk about in the book sometimes Okay, it's a nice it sounds nice But does this guy actually do this stuff in real life and then five minutes for the podcast again You're asking me everything that I've done about the podcast. So I know the I know that you live this every single day So let's talk about let's talk about some other examples Maybe somebody that you you spoke to on your show or even yourself. I mean you said you're always a student. You're always learning How do you how do you leverage that for your career for your business for whatever it is your building? Well, you know One of the things moving on to the second thing you learn from things like you're upbringing new environment It's being a truth-teller crisis I you know I write about all these things that you can learn from You also can learn to you know Ask better questions you know Check on your own judgment, you know You know see the way the way the world the way out really is not the way not the way you necessarily want it to be But one of the things I talk about is you need to learn to be a pattern thinker You know and one way that I did it and I'll give you an example of how somebody else did it, okay? was When I was on the free to lay account They needed a new product idea So I said to my team I said look let's go to the grocery store. Let's just walk around see what's growing So we get to the salad dressing aisle Game this was for Doritos. We get to salad dressing aisle and we realized that Ranch flavored dressing was at the most facings and was the fastest growing new flavor new new salad dressing Okay, so I come back and I call Dennis hurt who was the head of R&D at free to lay and say hey look Uh, you know This ranch flavor is really really grown Do you think we could do a ranch flavor Dorito? He goes yeah, I think we could so we ended up doing cool ranch Doritos Yeah, huge success, but it was pattern delicious I looked at what was going on in the salad dressing category and said how can we do it in the snack snack business, okay? You know, and then you know, I talked to Roger Gidell and one of my podcasts, okay He goes that he goes to he visits technology companies every year. He goes out and goes to Google and Apple and you know Microsoft that you know, and then he comes back and figures out, you know You know what they could do now years ago. He made sure that the stadiums all had Wi-Fi and you know And so but but he put it into action and and so he looks at what's happening in another part of the world And says how can I apply it in my business, okay? And I think if you can learn to be a pattern thinker all of a sudden You open up all kinds ideas, you know, that's why I always love reading Wall Street Journal Marketing and magazines everything and I go well if they're doing this at Dick Sporting's goods How did I do that at Taco Bell? Yeah, it's gonna be different. It is not gonna be the same But it's gonna it's gonna get you ideas that you otherwise Couldn't it couldn't wouldn't have in it if you can find success and learn from it And then say how can I apply it to my business man? You're opening up all kinds of avenues for growth I think that's a massive Massively undervalued idea that you just gave because what people I think they do because I've done this and I'm you know I'm I'm probably like the majority of people Maybe I'm not as strong a pattern thinker and if I want to start a business I'll look at the competitors and I'll try and do something that's cheaper or slightly better than every everyone in the market But then you're just emulating the same idea. You're not doing anything new Yeah, yeah, but you know you what you want to do is Take the thinking that's out there and then think about how you can do something room. Yeah Yeah, and you know You know, you look at cool ranch burritos right down you all while that's a no-brainer, you know, but you know what It back then it wasn't a no-brainer, okay? Because they did not well, they I bet they didn't have all the ranch now ranches everywhere like now It makes a ton of sense, right? Because If one works then everyone else is gonna copy you but everybody's got a ranch flavor potato chip or ranch everything everybody copy this Okay, yeah, we were first in and and I think that's that's that's really important Yeah, I love it and the last the last sort of learning attribute is you learn by doing the things That are gonna make the biggest difference So first of all um, I think the question that comes with that is how do you figure out what's gonna move the needle the most on that urgent important On that eyes and how are matrix whatever because it's sometimes I think people do a lot of the work that Maybe it's a busy work, but not the most urgent important work So how do you identify that and then how does it help you learn? Well, I think you got to really understand what really drives your business Okay, you know, I I ride about My time with Tony shoe from from door dash, okay? This guy delivered hummus, okay? It he knows the delivery process better than anybody in the uh in the business and So he he learns by doing the hard things because he knows in his business. It's all about execution You know, you know, how does door dash, you know, deliver what it needs to deliver on time and with excellence So this guy he goes out every month now and he actually gets That's delivery, okay, and he has people do delivery. He does the hard stuff. So that's like that's not that sexy But that's how you really drive that business. It's just real hardcore Execution, you know, I talked to Erie Levine, okay, who created ways Okay, and he learned he learned that the biggest problem That he he learned by really understanding the problems of his customers there or having and they get stuck in traffic So how do they get out of traffic? And he solved that problem built a hell of a business, okay? Because he learned by you know Understanding his customers and understanding what the big problems are and he wrote a great book called fall in love with the problem Probably not the solution, you know, which I love you guys a brilliant brilliant guy You know you learn by preparing, okay? Brian Roberts who runs Comcast This guy is a serial learner, okay, and one of the things that he does he talks about hanging around the rim Okay, just getting out there talking to people finding out what's going on hanging on the around the rim and sooner or later That ball is going to bounce your way, okay, but he's preparing to take action He's preparing to get the rebound and do the slam dunk, okay? I don't know what it's going to be, but if you look at his track record, you know, he bought university studios He bought AT&T broadband. I mean his guy he knows how to play around the rim and then execute when he gets that gets the chance So, you know, learning by I one another one that I love on learning by is is learning by rec learn by recognizing on purpose This is really powerful for everybody out there Recognition is so needed in the workplace today But if you're going to recognize somebody and you're going to recognize people on your team recognize on purpose What are the things that are going to drive performance on your team? Is it meeting deadlines? Is it coming up with breakthrough ideas? Is it collaboration? I don't know what those things are, but find out what those things are that are going to drive performance on your team and then Recognize the heck out of them because that's what people will do People will do what they see getting recognized and you'll get more and more of it And that's how you really build a powerful culture with your team or with your business or or whatever your work unit might be What are do you think companies miss the mark on because I love that recognize on purpose so You think companies miss the mark on this they're recognizing things that are actually not Moving the needle are they recognizing non-behaviors is this sort of like uh? Oh, there's the Alexa No, you're good. Is it something along the lines of um You're focusing on like hours and seats versus like the output or the revenue or the whatever leading indicator You want to you want to manage? Yeah, that's that that happens all the time You know, it's like it's what I talked about earlier You know people focus on the profits, but they don't think about how you get there Yeah, when you recognize on purpose you think about the behaviors that you know will drive the performance that will ultimately get you the the profits And a lot of times people are so bottom line oriented that they don't really take the time to think about oh Okay, I'm gonna have to have much more collaboration to get this done Well, I'm gonna have to have a lot bigger ideas to get this done And then you know How do you recognize those things so that that that people that that it enables it and facilitates it in your organization? Do you feel like that's a problem that starts to manifest in a company after a certain size like Like post IPO when you have shareholders to answer to because I think that to get off the ground a startup Has to focus on the things that move the needle, but then there's this mysterious point What's the what's the size of the company went for some reason you focus on all these other metrics That are actually not moving the needle because you've worked in like the range of companies I mean you've worked in the largest companies that exist on planet earth really So I'm curious When companies lose themselves. I think customer. I mean Companies lose themselves when they lose sight of who they're serving When they lose sight of their customers and they get so internally driven And so full of themselves that they stop listing and responding to their customers And that Also happens with their people Because there's an arrogance of it. We do it this way That's usually when you derail you know, I've gone in and I've turned around businesses with with teams before And it's always almost a bat to the basics programs And it's just people lose sight of the of the basics and You have to figure out what those basics are in every business put process and discipline around them and and and I get guaranteed and more times than not that'll be the key to The turning around a business. You know, I I'm reading this book right now on Elon Musk, which is you know I'm really enjoying this He's not the kind of leader that I would necessarily want to work for or he's not the kind of leader that Has my my style, but you know what he has his own style But the one thing that he always keeps front and center is what's his mission? You know, it's like I'm gonna make the world a better place and by the things that I do And then he thinks so boldly and so Incredible about those things, okay? That he didn't he that that he is mission drives him, okay? And you know, but his mission is very external, okay? It's not oh We're gonna be the the largest electrical car cop, you know, yeah, no, we're gonna we're gonna make the The planet, you know green now it is gonna thinking huge and So but he's got a noble cause to what he what what he does and he stays true to it I think that's a really important thing for every company is to have something that's bigger than just making a buck It would for for for a young Was that because you mentioned a few times how culture was one of the the most important drivers of success at young And I think that's culture is a big word and it it in comes is quite a bit But I mean if I look at your tenure you grew young from four billion to thirty two billion So you did something right just a couple things right just a few things right so great can Exactly so When you do when you have numbers like that What's the thing outside of money? That enabled you to do that because there's another goal there There's another thing that you unlocked and the people that work for you You know that the minute I became the CEO I said we were gonna create the young dynasty We were gonna get consistent performers year after year after year Okay, and I went out and I learned From the top performing companies at the time what they did and they were five dynasty drivers And That's what I built the whole company around you know One creating a culture where everyone counts competitive brand differentiation process and in both people and and and and and work processes uh, you know A beat here a go mentality Competitive differentiation and everything you do these were the five things that all the great companies did when I talked to them and the number one thing That they talked about more than anything else was creating a culture where everyone counts So that I made that what my number one thing that I focused on as a CEO is to really create that culture Because I think that was the real driver But then Scott we became very successful and we became even bigger. We were getting that dynasty like performance year after year We were nailing it so then I said we're gonna be the defining global company that feeds the world That was huge. I said that is huge. We want people coming to To visit us, okay to see how we did it and how are we gonna do it create a recognition culture where With a renowned recognition culture where everyone counts A drive build vibrant dynamic brands everywhere we do business and then help people who can afford our food Get fed and so our corporate social responsibility effort was with the world food program Okay, and you know, I just motivated the hell out of our people But you want to be a part of something big, you know, nobody wakes up Scott nobody wakes up every day wanting to be a part of something mediocre People wake up want to be a part of something great and I think one of the things that you know, you got all these leaders that are listening to this, you know create Get your team excited about doing something great Not just doing the job or the task. How do you do it in a way that's gonna change change your business or change the world or whatever But but recognize that people do not want to come to work and be a part of something mediocre And then you get everybody involved in doing what they can do in their piece of the company So that you can have ultimate success and so everyone knows that their job counts whether they're a jam Administrative assistant or a senior VP everybody needs to know that their job counts Is there is there one thing or one major thing you can point to because if you can get people on board With a mission like that You're gonna unlock you're gonna lock the this energy that you're not gonna get if if you're again a mediocre company But how do you get everybody on board with a mission like that Bay You look at we had a million and a half people, okay, I know you to and not a lot of people and not everybody was on board Not everybody, you know, we didn't reach everybody like we really wanted to We had franchise grips. We had to try to convince to do things, you know, it was not easy. Okay, it's not so I don't want to give you this You know paint this picture where, you know, everything was wonderful. We had our we had our challenges But what you do is You communicate you communicate you communicate you talk about it all the time you highlight the process You highlight the things that you see as the leader I actually did when I went around the world I it was sort of like where's Waldo where's David, you know, I would do I would be posting, you know, blogs on what I was seeing in India What I was seeing in China that was helping us, you know, build vibrant brands what I was seeing You know and in in Malaysia in terms of how people were recognizing each other and you know, what People know what you stand for and you know, they'll they'll the people who we're gonna build your company They'll try to try to emulate the things that you want to have done And you can't you can't let yourself fall into like a like a bubble when you're a CEO like you can't you can't Just sit at top of the ivory tower. I think that part of what you do so well is you seem to just be very human and very open But everything you're taking on I think you know everybody Everybody talks about being vulnerable now. That's the big buzzword. Everybody's right books about and all that stuff, you know, you know Oh, I think what you got to be is you got to learn to be yourself, okay? And you know and and you know what? Scott you got your DNA. I got my DNA. There's no way you can be any other anybody but you and there's no way I can be anybody but me and as soon as you realize that in your life the better off your the better off You're gonna be and the more people will really follow you, okay? Yeah, and you know, I I think That's really key and and I think it's so important to learn to to be reflective You know, it's it's to learn to take a time and reflect on who you are How you're doing what you need to do to grow You know, I think that reflection is critical and you know every you everybody all of us seem to get a lot of times into this You know little treadmill, you know, just you're you know, you know, and you got to get off of it every now and then Just to take stock of who you are and how you're doing and what you need to do to to impact the Your business and the people you lead in a and as powerful way as you can You feel like you know in your own in your own career I'm sure when you were coming up you had like a little bit of imposter syndrome and I'm sure you put on a face To you know at a certain way or be a certain way But is there a point that you can think of in your career when you look settled into yourself? Was that the point when career took off? I'm just curious how you sort of came to that great point, you know Hey, when I was coming up. I was always the youngest person on the team Yeah, I didn't have an MBA So when people started talking about their MBAs, I went to the bathroom and speak people started talking about how old they were I went to the bathroom, okay, you know, and yeah, so I was you know Tom Brady told me once you need to fake it and tell you you can make it you know and yeah I was building my You know building my My My work capability the whole time, okay, I think they're You can't underestimate the power of time and grade Just experience, okay, and and and building the capability for exist one of the things That I do now is I do motivational speaking and I get to do all these speaking engagements What I can and but let me tell you some Scott when I was coming up in business And I had a presentation to make I was so afraid you cannot believe it I said you know a thousand times I I cracked the stupid joke that nobody laughed at just to kind of break the tension that I had I was not a good communicator, but then I went to I went to a I wanted to learn from the best best communications Teacher, okay, so I went to this guy named McElendon in New York Spend a day with him saw myself on videotape learned how to you know to be a better speaker learn that you could be big on stage Use your arms do all this stuff, you know And so then I go from that meeting and I go to this Pepsi convention where we have like I don't have seven or eight thousand people in the Dallas Convention Center, okay, and I got to give this speech Well I would at that point we just launched this campaign. You got the right one, baby Uh-huh, and it would it had taken off and and it was a very popular campaign So I started my speech and somebody out in the crowd yelled uh-huh okay, and From that moment it took off and I say something and they'd yell uh-huh and then I'd say something they go And it was like a Baptist revival. You know, it's like unbelievable. I had everybody going uh-huh And it was an amazing thing, okay, that happened from that point on I never ever feared public speaking again Because I had such a big win that it gave me confidence And then when I became the head of KFC and pizza and and and and you know y'all you know you always got to give the last speech Mm-hmm couldn't wait. I couldn't wait to get up there You know, I just convinced every kids convinced myself that they needed to be whether they did or not, okay But it was like I couldn't wait to get up on that stage Now if you didn't tell me I would add that same feeling When I was 28 years old Uh, I don't think I would have believed so I didn't I don't think I really had a breakthrough on that area of my career Until I was probably 40 years old You know what you did though you you created the opportunities that allowed you to have that breakthrough I I worked to you know, I I did whatever I could I tried my best, you know But you know the the best thing that I had was I think going back to my upbringing. I learned how to work with people. I learned how to value people my mom and dad My mom and dad were you know just salt to the earth people didn't have college education All they wanted for me was You know did to achieve the American dream, okay? They'd never had any clue And I didn't have any clue that I would end up where where I where I've ended up But one of the things I always saw when I went out and I went into pizza and taco bells and KFCs I always talked to the people the front line I saw my mom and dad I saw my mom and dad and and and I thought you know they've got so much to offer my mom and dad or At least the smartest me, okay? Probably smarter and the only thing they didn't have is a college education didn't have all the people that The mentored him and coached him like I had, okay? And you know and I also had a wife who you know would kind of kick my butt when it was time for me to make a move You know and when she would see me wrestling a little bit, you know And I think that really really helped me a hell of a lot Yeah, I think that I mean like when you surround yourself with those people that's really what that's really the differentiator Because you get in your own head all the time too like you said you're getting it. Yeah, you got to have truth tellers around you Yeah, okay, you know You know, I mentioned to you before we got on that my wife past okay, just a couple weeks ago And you know, I'm trying to get back in the saddle by doing things like this, you know But I was blessed enough in 2012 to be the CEO of the year, okay And so we go up the New York Stock Exchange after we ring the bell and I got to do that twice I got to do it 1997 when we became a public company and then as CEO the year you got to ring the the the bell So we go up the top more of the New York Stock Exchange and they got all these pictures of all these CEOs that got CEO of the year had Larry boss of the Andy Grove from Intel herb Keller from Southwest Airlines and my wife said to me she said David What in the heck are you doing it in here? And you know, you need that You know people that keep you grounded and and you know, we all need that Yeah, I have a question for you. You know, you you started this part. I just wanted to look behind you You have a framed interview with someone behind you on your desk. Who's that interview that you did? Oh, that's with Tom Brady. Okay. Okay. Okay. Got you. Yeah He's the he's I'm really blessed to have him as a good friend and actually he actually endorsed my my book How leaders learn and uh but speaking of that Scott, you know uh He's probably the The best leader I've ever talked to Okay, because he knows his trade incredible. I mean we start talking about football. It's it's amazing He he knows how to inspire people. He's a great communicator and he's got all the physical skills you need to have to perform And he's an active learner like he if he went to He'd go to Tom House to learn how to throw the football more efficiently more effectively If he just went there and didn't come back and use it it wouldn't help them But he went to Tom House is the best in the world that he improves his footwork his percentage past Compliance goes up. Yeah, but this guy's constantly getting better at everything that he does Yeah, well, it's just it's the mindset. It's a mindset of constant learner. That's what he's doing That's what he applies, right? He's living it He's living it What's um You know, we went through a whole bunch of lessons today What would be one major lesson that we didn't go into that you think was Powerful that you learned yourself or from someone else Well, let me think about that for a second You know, everybody talks about learning from failures, but one One example of that which I really loved was him from a story and a podcast. I did with Scott Hamilton. Remember the great I cater And he said he fell he had to fall four or five thousand times Okay But he said look at Failure as information Just look it's not like you fail. It's that you're you're gaining information that's going to help you get better Each and every day and I love that just think if you looked at you looked at failure and when you fail is information that you could put into your catalog Okay and and And use it as you go forward. I love that and then I think you can also learn from winning Yeah, uh Dr. John knows where they're from Mayo clinic, you know, I mean he took over a Company that needed to be reshaped But he went back and looked at how they won when it had to be reshaped before he had that job And it was basically hey look we've done it once we can we can do it again So I think you can learn from you know, everybody talks about failures and and and and learning from your failures Which I I love and I love how uh You know, Scott Hamilton basically did that but I think you can win a lot by Yeah, I think you can learn a lot just from how you How people win how you've won? Yeah, and and and cataloging that and and and not forgetting it I love that and I think that this is so powerful because I think that especially in our own lives we gloss over the wins I don't we don't remember all the cool stuff we did it How many times you succeeded and you focus on the failures because they hurt the wins don't hurt It's like these these golfers that go out they hit a bad shot, you know, and it's oh my god I'm terrible, you know, but what about the 15 good ones that you had? Why is that in your memory box, you know and I I would tell everybody that They need to start building their own personal highlight reel You know so that that you know when you got a big challenge you can look back and say you know what I did this I did that I'm I can do this now and I can do that you know Build that highlight reel. I think that'll really help you. I love that Where can people connect with you get your get any of your books? um Listen to your podcast go to allatorslaid.com and you can figure out, you know What what's happening in in in in my world, okay? I'm uh on on x David doveco oh go and uh You know, it's uh I would just tell you that I'm I'm very Trilled Scott that you had me on this podcast and You know my mission Like yours is just to try to help people and uh, I really think that my book can be urges on amazon anywhere you buy your books Uh, but you know, I I think I've kind of poured my heart and soul into this one and it's not just my stories But it's it's stories from the world's most successful people and that's why I think it's a great book You know because it's it's it's got You know back it's backed by by a lot of people and a lot of research in each one of these areas which we try to You know try to get at you know They say about a third of readers won't believe you unless they there's some sort of research that backs it up Well, we cite research that backs up all all the learnings We do yeah, because you have you have you mentioned connellina right acondaleza rice tom brady You have dr. John knows worthy you have eric church, which I love his music Jamie diamond you have a lot you have a lot of really great people in this book This is like because this is this is yeah, this is a type of content I love right you take all the lessons from all the most incredible people and you're teaching them over to the world We have very similar missions basically is all I'm saying, but um Okay, so we'll put that all in the show notes People can check out the book um check out the podcast connect with you If you were going just Quick questions to to rob up pull out two more lessons from you If you were going to tell your 20 year old self one thing after all the success that you've had what would that thing be You never know what you're capable of You know you might be starting out at the very bottom But if you do that job as well as you can do it and see what the next job is and figure out what you need to do to get that next job And keep doing that throughout your career. You'll be surprised where you end up And when you look at your career and your life now What does success mean to you success means Helping other people become all that they can be you know, I I've been so blessed. I've had the privilege of leadership now I want it to give back and You know I've read some research that other directed people are the happiest people in the world and and I'm finding by wanting to give back by writing a book like how leaders learn doing my podcasts, you know I've never never been happier with with my my business life Um, and you know, I hope I can just get better and better at doing it You