Chris Pronger - Hockey Hall of Famer & Entrepreneur | What it Takes to Win the Stanley Cup

All the motivational speakers I listen to are like all football coaches and they all these like great business lessons. Why is that it seems to be a prerequisite? I think it's inherent in sports. Leadership matters. The teams that have great leadership, they're able to push players to play at their best. He's a piece of me. Well obviously he just liked him. He's very active. He's not fun. It's a dirty hit and you have to take and the only people that really matter are the guys in the room. They don't seem to mind the last play. Chris Prawner plays on the edge. Eight suspensions and more than 1,500 penalty minutes. Prawner is one of hockey's most imposing and intimidating players. And Norris Trophy goes to Chris Prawner, the state-run player. What makes somebody great? First the promo talent and then I think it's discipline and continue to get better. Some people think they're working hard until they start working next to somebody who is working hard. How did you set yourself up properly? What was your strategy? I made my first pair of mistakes too. Give a good mistake. Give a good mistake. I don't know why. Welcome to success story. I'm your host, Scott Clary. The success story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network. Now the HubSpot podcast network has incredible podcasts like My First Million hosted by Sam Parr and Sean Perry. They interview some of the most incredible business leaders, Alex Ramozi, Sophia Amaruso, Hassan Minhaj, who shared their journey to success and how they made their first million. On a recent episode they featured the acquired podcast host Ben Gilbert and David Rosenthal to discuss how they scaled their multi-million dollar podcasts. Don't sleep on My First Million. If you want to get inspired, if you want to learn from the best, you got to tune into My First Million wherever you listen to your podcast. Today my guest is Chris Pronger, Canadian, former professional ice hockey defenseman and former advisor to the Florida Panthers. Originally selected second overall by the Hartford Whalers in the 93 NHL entry draft, Pronger played for Hartford, the St. Louis Blues, Edmonton Oilers, and Anheim Ducks before being traded to Philadelphia Flyers before the 2009 and 10 season. He was captain of the Blues, Ducks, and Flyers. He has appeared in the Stanley Cup finals with three different teams, Edmonton, Anheim, and Philadelphia, winning a cup with the Ducks in 2007. Pronger won the Hart Memorial trophy as the NHL's most valuable player for the 1999 and 2000 season, becoming the first offenseman to win the award since Bobby Orr. A mainstay on team Canada, Pronger won Olympic gold medals at the 2002 and 2010 Winter Olympic Games, and as a member of the Triple Gold Club in 2017, he was named one of the 100 greatest NHL players in history. Now we spoke about how we got drafted and developed as the hockey player, business lessons that crossed over from sports to business, leadership lessons from the locker room, how to be the top 0.01% of any profession, money problems that professional athletes, why more than 50% of athletes go broke, Chris's personal investment pillars and lessons learned investing in building and scaling businesses. I had a sore shoulder, I had a bad knee, I was eating like angle waffles in the morning, all this stuff like 21 years old, you can eat whatever you want, and I came in, I met the trainer. He's like, I walk from here to there, and I walked like six steps, and he just watched me for a second, he goes, you got a bad shoulder, I'm like, yeah, I think I hurt my rotator, he's like, you got a bad left knee, I go, yeah, a little sore, he's like, okay, I got it, he starts grabbing me and pinching me, and I'm like, okay, he's like, yeah, we got to get this down, we got to, what do you eat, and then we walk through like a deal. Yeah, I eat eggels, I go, I need carbs, he's like, you're out of your mind. And he started walking through my diet and walking through kind of my training regimen, kind of really boiling it down and really kind of peeling back the onion layers to each segment of the process and kind of swiping it all away and starting from scratch and kind of building a base. And then from that day forward, every year was a process until three years later, I won the MVP, and it was a process of building blocks and building on top of each block and getting that base of constant nutrition, eating properly every single day, how does that make your body feel, fueling your body properly, and then training properly and not being in the gym, trying to see how much you can lift, but more functional exercises, post-season using the first two or three weeks to rehab injuries and stabilizer muscles that you really don't feel like you use, but you know you're fixing your shoulders, your knees, things like that that are going to allow your quads and your chest and your back to really do what they're supposed to be doing. And so as I walk through and kind of built on each summer, each season, you know, I started feeling more comfortable learning how I needed to play, but also more off the ice and learning how I needed to train, learning how I needed to eat. And then from that base, I just kept getting better and better and kind of understanding. And using that same system and tool, I then started to implement similar processes into investing and how I managed my money and just kind of use, you know, knocking everything down to the studs and coming up with a core principle and kind of understanding how I got to where I was as a professional athlete and then using a lot of those same principles and processes to kind of manage my money and manage kind of what I do post-career and things of that nature. It's very interesting that it took you, you said, four years to get to the point where somebody came in and basically said, you're fucking everything up right now. Like, you're not going to have longevity if you stay down this path. And even four years in, four years is a lot of time for somebody to be playing pro sports, right? That's not like, that's not like, you know, a couple weeks, you're in it, you're living it. Like, I want to understand even a little bit, back up a little bit, the types of lessons and learnings that you got from joining the NHL, you were 18, right? So you didn't even go to college at that point. So walk me through young athlete, you know, the world's your oyster, you're jumping into professional athletics, you are, are you choosing to not go to college at this point? I guess that's a conscious choice that you would have had to have made. I mean, the money, everything that, I guess, a little bit of the fame that comes with it. So it's, it's, it's going to mess with you to some extent. So walk me through those first four years before it sounds like you started to get a little bit more grounded. Yeah, I was already somewhat grounded. It was, I had to make a decision when I was 16, whether I was going to play junior hockey or whether I was going to go to college, my brother had already chosen the college route and was playing D1 at Bowling Green State University. And I was now at that fork in the road of having to decide which, which route am I going to take? And I chose junior just because, you know, I, the team that I signed with was going to pay for my schooling. So I kind of had the best of both worlds. If I didn't turn pro and didn't sign a contract, they were going to pay for my schooling. And then also, I just, I needed the competition. I didn't want to go back and play junior B and kind of be stagnant and, and not push myself to continue to play against better competition. I really wanted to kind of keep challenging myself. And, and, and, and that, I think ultimately helped me because I started, I started playing junior against first round picks. My first year I played against Eric Lindross, who was the first overall pick. Up a year earlier and kind of was the, the next best, you know, the next thing on the block. And you're able to kind of compare yourself and, and be able to kind of get a gauge as to where you are, how your, how your skills kind of match up with the rest of the so-called best young players in, in the game. And so that gave me a good starting point foundation as to kind of where I fit in, uh, vis-a-vis, you know, the draft and, and, you know, up and coming players. We had a couple of high picks on our team as well. So, you know, you're practicing and playing against those guys day in, day out. You're going to get better. And, and I needed to challenge myself and continue my development curve and, and, and really push myself in that regard. So, uh, I chose that route. And all the while still, you know, fast-tracking my education, fast-tracking my schooling so that I was going to graduate high school after my first year in junior. But I still had another year that I had to play in junior. So I took a economics class at Trent University in Peterborough. And then I took a, uh, psychology class just to, you know, keep learning and keep, get myself out of bed in the mornings. You know, you've come off an early morning bus ride home and, uh, you got to, you know, you're going to get your sleep. But you need to kind of shake the cobwebs off and get moving. So, you know, for me, it was just a trying to continue that learning process and keep the mind moving and, and get the body up at a normal time. And, um, you know, so for me, it was a great learning experience and it was more of the, the pro mindset. We played 72 games. College, you play like 25, 26, whatever it is, 32. Um, so for me, it was just, you know, riding the bus kind of put in a little, added stress and, and whatnot on your body to kind of get it ready for that next level if you're able to make that jump. We're going to talk about money later, but I'm just, I want to just talk about like sports and athletics and maybe it's something that you've noticed. I'm sure you have noticed this, but how come, how come people to play, play at such a high level pro sports? How come there's so many leadership qualities that translate into business? I see, like I, all the, all the motivational speakers I, I listen to are like all football coaches and they all these like great business lessons. Like, why is that? It seems to be a prerequisite. Yeah, I think when you play sports, you know, there's lots of leaders, lots of followers, but even the followers are learning from their leaders and learning, you know, as I went along in my career, I was always an assistant captain or captain or what have you, a leader on the teams and you're always learning. You're always taking pieces from, you know, early on in my heart for days, Pat for Beek was our captain and learn how he handles himself with the media, how he trains and prepares for games, you know, how professionally he is on and off the ice. I get to St. Louis and I'm watching Alma Kines and how he handles the media, how he prepares for games and trains and he's ultimately the one who introduced me to the trainer. You know, as I move along, you know, I'm learning new things and, you know, not always being the intense Rahra guy, but sitting back and kind of pulling somebody under under your wing and saying, hey, you know, is everything okay? Is there something going on off the ice? What's going on with you where you're kind of investing in them and getting an understanding as to what's going on in their life and not necessarily just saying, hey, you need to be better and, you know, I'm putting it all out there. You need to do, you know, a lot of times there's a lot more under the surface and as I got a little bit older, I learned that side of being a leader and that side of being a captain and so I think it's inherent in sports that, you know, leadership matters whether, you know, you look at all the different team sports, the teams that have great leadership from management to coaching to players, they're able to create an accountability scale, and able to really push players to play at their best and they're also walking the walk. They're doing their part and leading by example, but they're also the first guys in the gym. They're also the hardest workers in practice. They're leading by example and then they're also going out and producing and performing on the ice on the field, on the court, whatever it is. And that example then exudes into the rest of the team like, well, this guy played 30 minutes last night. He's in the gym this morning while I need to get in the gym morning and those little things after a while they rub off on players and then you get four guys in the gym and you got six guys in the gym and next thing, you know, you got 12 guys in the gym, all training together, all kind of preparing and now you've got this mindset of excellence and this mindset that nothing's going to stop us and it's all from repetition and it's all from pushing yourselves and you hear, you know, legacy and you hear these, you know, buzzwords talked about all the time, but, you know, how good do you want to be? You know, what does your legacy look like? How much are you willing to sacrifice in your finite amount of time in your sport to be the best, to be the best that you can be in? And it's a matter of kind of, you know, looking at it in a discipline manner and going, okay, well, I don't need to do that. I want to do that, but what am I sacrificing to do that? And kind of extrapolating backwards and, you know, when I first met my trainer, we looked at, we looked at my summer calendar and he's like, all right, I only want you drinking once a week. And I'm like, okay, well, I got to go to a wedding here and I got to do this and I'm going fishing. And I mean, I literally, you know, axed out those days that, okay, those are the days I'm going to have my fun. And the other days, I was tight on my diet, I was training, I was, you know, doing everything that I needed to do. And, you know, sometimes I was sitting on my dock, looking at everybody going by, having a good time. But, you know, that's the sacrifice and the discipline that it takes to be the best in your sport. But you, you killed it. You're not just, you're not just like, uprestulants, you know, arguably, you're like the top, the top percentile, the top 1% when it comes to talking. I mean, you're, you're playing at the highest levels. But, walk me, maybe just even like, look, look inside, like almost like a little bit of self-awareness is to what allowed you because, yeah, you were strict and you were regimented. But a lot of the guys were strict and regimented. And I'm sure a lot of the guys busted their ass and a lot of guys, maybe some drank a little more now there's, but I'm sure a lot of the guys like tried to really stay on their, on their food and their nutrition and their diet. And what, what makes somebody great? What made, you know, I'll tell you what made you great? What made you and that uprest along? Well, I, first of foremost, you've got to have talent. You have to have an innate ability to play your respective sport. And then it's, again, I think it's discipline and it's aware with all the, to harness that ability and continue to get better. Every summer, when I went, went into my summer program and, you know, you work on things in the off season and what not getting prepared for training camp. If I was staying status quo, I was falling behind. You know, neutral is not good. You need to keep going up and, and improving whether it's your fitness, whether it's working on your weaknesses and we all have them and turning those into a positive and just getting everything incrementally better. You know, and it was just a process of every single summer working on something, whether it was my skating, whether it was, you know, my body, whether it was injuries, you know, all those different things that as, as the seasons over, you evaluate how your season went, what you need to improve on, you know, how does your body feel? What can and can't you do at this particular juncture and summer? And then build out, okay, these, these are things that I need to do. And then you go to work. I mean, it's that simple. It's putting in the time and the effort, having a work ethic and understanding, you know, some people think they're working hard until they start working next to somebody who is working hard. And a lot of it, as your mind said, a lot of this is up top. You know, I can't, there's lots of times where you're riding a bike. You're like, I feel like I'm going hard. And then you like, you know, I, you know, kind of like Jordan did. I'd use little slides and just to piss me off when I'm riding the bike and push myself harder and, you know, use those things and the days where you maybe don't feel your best or you don't feel like working out. Oh, this guy said this about me. Oh, he doesn't, he thinks I'm overrated. All right, well, I'll show you. All right. And you know, you use anything you can to kind of get you up to motivate you to work harder, you know, finish your work out stronger and push yourself at the end and, you know, as you get in better shape, you can push yourself harder and harder. And, you know, you need a trainer, but you also need to be your own worst critic. And I think that also helped me was, I was my own worst critic. I didn't, I didn't keep backpatters around me and have the honor of around you and giving it a, you're good, you're good, you're good. You know, I wanted to be the best that I could be and harness my skill and talent. It took me a number of years early on in my career to kind of figure out how I needed to do that. And what steps I needed to take to start, you know, taking those next steps to being a great player and being consistent. You know, I think you see a lot of young players coming to these leagues and they're really good and, but they show flashes. And the hallmark of a good pro is showing up and being consistent each and every night. And that starts with practice, that starts with training, that starts, and that builds the base for the games. The games are the easy part. It's all the hard work and all the training and all the preparation before the game that actually makes the game easy. And so if you're, if you're a half-asset in practice or you're kind of not working out very hard, at some point it's going to show up in the games. And all these seasons are so long that, you know, you're playing 82 games or baseball 162 games. That's a long grind of a season. And if you're not prepared and disciplined over that long span plus the playoffs, two months of a long grind of playing potentially 28 games, there's a lot that you're leaving out there for chance if you're not preparing yourself for what may be at the end of the year. I just want to take a second and thank the sponsor of today's episode HubSpot. 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Guys that used to play junior A in high school and then be playing puck and then go to the ODR and then a guy's playing in the OHL would come back home for Christmas or something and he'd step on the ice and he'd dance around the guys that were playing. It's just like you don't realize and these guys thought they were hot shit the rest of the year. So if you put yourself in situations like that, man, it's eye opening but then it pushes you. It really seriously pushes you. How did this, as you grew in your career, obviously money is a big part of a professional athletes career but there's also a lot of really scary stats about 50% plus of athletes going broke and what not and you see it in hockey. I think you see it in every sport to be quite honest. I think you have a fair amount of people that declare bankruptcy and now I think hopefully it's getting better because I think if I'm not mistaken even in colleges or mandating financial education for some other athletes and whatnot but I thought that was very interesting because you connected with I guess it was Sam Parr who so speaking to you about Twitter maybe walk through even how you got involved in Twitter but then I also want to unpack that story that you told about all the finances and how you navigated your career so that when you came out you were still set and that you could still have some money to play with and you could still set yourself up for the rest of your life because a professional athlete their career is not forever so walk me through that whole how I sort of discovered you were in the finance and business world and what happened with that and then we could talk about money and everything that sort of went on in your career that you sort of educated you and learned you as to how to invest, how to manage your money and what you're doing now. Yeah so I actually got on Twitter friend of mine and Philly Son actually works for Twitter and I just decided to take the leap and and and get on Twitter opened my open my kimono up and get on Twitter and and so kind of set up an account then I kind of it was dormant for a little while and then I had met Sam I'm trying to remember how I met him it might have been on Twitter I might have been following somebody and there was an interaction or something and then he's he's from St. Louis so he used to come watch my games and you know we talked a couple times and then I was down on Austin and he was down there and we just went out for dinner to catch up and he was asking me about finances he obviously had a big liquidity event on his it is deal and and so we're just talking about finances and talking about you know what do you do with your money and and all that kind of stuff and and he's like you know we just started to talk about athletes and I was just like you know walking through it you know all the different things that happened to me and happened to people I know and and he's like man you should do a threat on that and I'm like what it's like yeah you should do a threat and I'm like what's that you know he helped me kind of piece it together I kind of gave him some details and then we just start talking kind of piecing it together and you know he helped me put it together and obviously he's much better out at than I am and he's done it he's done it more than he's more than he's done it more than the ones yeah you know yeah exactly so he helped me kind of construct it and and kind of walk through how you do it why you do it a certain way etc and then so that one went viral and I was just talking about you know I think and and and you know you're always going to get back when I show I was going to get haters and I'm like I'm not I'm not up here complaining I'm just showing people what happens how how fast things can get off the rails and things that go sideways and you know whether you're talking about an entourage you're talking about you know buying two you know you get your first check and you start spending and you're buying a car and you're buying a house and you're buying this to buy and that next thing you know you have no money to invest you have no money to pay for the insurance you have no you don't know and you know and the biggest problem is you don't get taught any of this stuff in school which is crazy to think that you don't learn about how to open a checking account how to you know what a mortgage is you don't you don't know any of that stuff so it's it's kind of asking I need to think and then I walk through you know whether it's you know divorces or you know poor investments money manager stealing money and throwing in shady deal you know runs the gamut and you know on that's some of the issues and there's obviously incredibly successful people that that have gone on to great huge success stories so you know you're kind of getting this huge spectrum of people and as I started walking through it and talking about it and you know people don't realize that players do pay tax and they you know there are all these things you know they pay an agent they pay they pay for this they pay for that you know and and yes are are they well off 100% they are but they don't have a base they don't know they a lot of times you you never know when it's gonna end yep you're 22 23 years old thinking all right I'm about to get my next huge payday and you get hurt well now you've set up a spending pattern that is just not feasible you thought you were gonna sign a huge deal and now you aren't and now you've got this money that you thought you were gonna live off of what you were gonna have fun with the first batch you know shack talks about when he signed his first contract in Orlando I mean he he spent the whole thing in like two days so it just you're not very well versed in money management and investing and because you have no base unless you come from a family where they've been investors and have done things which very few people have then then you're really susceptible to listening to an agent listening to some guy you meet oh I'm graded investing I'm this and that these bultures are all they're all around they're always around you know there's great agents and then there's a shady agents I mean it's no different than anything like it all walks of life there's there's good and bad yeah and so getting a an understanding and a base point for it I think just a lot of players you never think the the well is gonna run dry you always think there's gonna be another check I know when I signed my last check in Philly I was 34 years old all right and I knew it was gonna be my last contract I'm like all right I sat down with my financial advisor and I said okay we need to get onto a path where all right that's sustainable get your spending under control whatever it is you need to find that number that we can sustain that is going to be where we can keep investing we can keep doing all the things that we need to do to grow but also at the lifestyle that you want to live and so it's interesting there's a lot of times players don't they don't think about that they don't they don't think about it until it's over that's what it's all gonna say you're not changing how you spend your money you're not you're just not if you're flying around on private jets and you're buying frigging Lamborghini's and Rolls Royce and all these frigging things that are three four hundred grand if you're doing that you're you're gonna run through a real fast so a couple a couple points first thing I was looking to stop 70% of lot of winners lose their money or go bankrupt in five years so that's 70% of people that know they're not gonna get another paycheck burned through that money so think about that for a second so imagine now you're making that kind of money and then you think you're gonna get another paycheck you think you're gonna get and that's not just a one-time event now that's ingrained in you over 15 years so that's messing with you so you're not you're not thinking in the right mindset obviously now I think that you let's help and here's the second point to that and here's the follow up to that your whole life you've been solely focused on your sport solely focused on being the best that you're a sport that you can be most likely not focusing on your schooling as much as maybe you should and now you're done now one you're you you solely immersed yourself in this sport you spent every waking second grinding at your sport and now what and a lot of times your your whole identity is built around your sport there's Scott the hockey player how you doing it's not Scott it's not Scott from Toronto it's not Scott from whatever it's got hockey player your hockey player no no I play hockey with that's not who I am that's not my sole person so it that and that we the more you hear that over and over and over and over again it tends to get ingrained in you and it's so and so the football players so now now you think you're just a football player oh you're just a dumb jock you hear that over and over again now you're just a dumb jock and and you hear these things over and over and over and over again and people just didn't like all right maybe I am because you hear it all the time and they're unwilling to buck the trend and and buck what people's perceptions are and so you know you're you're you're kind of just going with the flow as opposed to trying to break that cycling and and being smart with your money and being smart with what you're doing and how you're kind of laying it all out there you know everybody wants to take care of their family everybody wants to take care of their friends but at what cost yeah you know it just it can some of the stories you hear you're like I can't believe that happened so out of the guys you played as the guys you played puck with what percentage of them do you think struggled to some extent guys that you're close with uh yeah I don't think a lot a lot of the guys that I played with you know summer summer struggling there's no question like the problem is you don't hear about it you know because they're embarrassed because they don't want to ask for help because they don't they're unwilling to kind of open themselves up for criticism because they made mistakes they got into a risky deal they thought they were going to hit the lottery and or they went to hit the lottery again you know you think oh I just won the lottery I made $10 million playing my sport you should be creating a nest egg and and building off of that instead you're risking it all thinking you want to be LeBron James or Kevin Durant and doing all the stuff that they do meanwhile they're making 40 50 million bucks of your plan their sport they can take those risks and they're making hundreds of millions of dollars in endorsements people look at the cream cream cream of the crop and think I want to be there they have no chance of getting there you have to be comfortable in who you are and where you are in order to be a sound investor you know and and look for singles you know I tell people I just want singles and doubles and if a double turns into a home run then great but I just want singles and doubles and the more you do that over and over again as you know you're you're gonna have a lot of success and too often these people they're they're constantly trying to hit home runs why I have no idea they're not satisfied with whatever they've got or they see this guy flying around on a private jet and this guy with a freaking McLaren or whatever well he's on a yacht or what I mean it and they're jealous so they start risking it all for no reason and and it's really just the mindset and and their mind playing games on them so it's understanding and it's hard for athletes to you know you're you're competitive you're driven you know that you're using that as a tool to push yourself but it's you're pushing yourself that you're taking a lot of risk that you don't have to take and it's it's hard for some guys to kind of get out of that competition and and you know to always try and be better than the next guy and and and just being happy with where you're at and you know there's a lot there's certainly lots of guys that struggle there's lots of success stories there's lots of guys that are struggling I think you see that in all walks of life you know it's just as an athlete it's front center and it's in the paper it's on TV it's whatever it's on social media I mean I see people all the time that you know had great jobs and made a lot of money and now they're struggling for whatever reason you know whether they're trying to keep up with the Joneses or you know trying to be somebody who they're not and you know I think that's you know the the biggest takeaway for me is understanding who you are and then being who you are and not worrying about you know live in this whatever dream they're living over there and just live your own dream live out your own life and you know I think that's where a lot of players really struggle because they're they're trying to be somebody they're not how did you set yourself up properly did you did you just get lucky with the right advice and mentors and financial advisors when you're still playing or what was your strategy yeah I I made my first round mistakes too don't get me wrong okay give me give a good give a good mistake give a good mistake because that's always interesting I have poor investments you know like I I you know bought a second why I don't know why I bought a second home thinking okay well I'm gonna I'm in St. Louis you know it'll be a good great place for my wife to take her kids in the wintertime they're young they can going on the beach while we're off for a week playing and then I get traded so now I'm like well that one wasn't finished yet so then I'm like all right we'll wait over here I mean you just you don't logically think things through and then next thing you know you're saddled with two properties that you don't use you're like okay and you have your main one and you're like why do I need all this crap and then the market tanks you're like okay great and it just you're you know you're you're not paying it you don't worry stuff you're not paying attention to all that stuff because that's not your job you're focused on your job and you're just doing things without really looking at the with with unintended consequences and then you're not you're not realizing how deep you're into it you know and and you know you're thinking all right just looks like a great idea you know you're you know you see some of these deals and they're just totally bloated with fees and all kinds of stuff basically trying to take advantage of you yeah you know it's just sometimes it just you make mistakes you know and I tell my financial guy all the time listen out of those mistakes and out of that money that was lost came a really good guidelines for what we want to invest in and then guidelines for who we don't want to invest with and and and as you make those mistakes you're able to really understand what good deals look like and what bad deals look like and and ones that are in your wheelhouse and other ones that they may you know what they may be home runs but they could just as easily go to zero and you have to kind of be willing to you know let those potential grand slams go for the you know singles and doubles it you know you're just going to kind of chip away chip away chip away because you don't have to you don't have to hit home run if it if it happens great but the the premise around the investment is that it's not going to be a home run it's going to be a really good deal and you're going to make money wealth preservation versus crazy risk for no apparent reason whatsoever and so you know once once you make those mistakes you learn real quick okay I don't like that feeling and I and I'm not a big gambler I learned I learned early on when I was a kid I started playing in between and I hit the post that I lost the crap load of money and I'm like as a kid and I'm like all right I'm not I'm not a gambler that I don't like this so I just you know what I learned my lesson all right that was my that was my investing gambling story and I'm like all right I'm done I'm not doing that no more so what is so what's the lesson that you learned so when when you look at when you look at investments now who do you invest in what's safe for you what do you what do you try and focus on give it obviously this is no parameters and what are the guidelines parameters a guidelines would be a character of the people structure of the deal leverage you know upside versus downside you know what's a what's a risk reward look like uh you know there's there's a number of factors but but a lot of it soils down to the the character of the dealmaker and and then you know what what the risk profile looks like vis-a-vis whether it's leverage uh you know what the sector is what type of investment it is and and kind of really anything that doesn't fit inside those guard rails I just I just get rid of I'm like I'm not interested hey success story listeners Scott here just want to give a shout out to the sponsor of today's episode the eBay for business podcast this is a resource that every entrepreneur should be tapping into I don't take this lightly I'm a podcaster I have a high level of scrutiny for the other podcast that I tell people to go check out but this is a good one whether you're starting out or you're looking to grow your existing business this podcast is your golden ticket it's packed full of insider knowledge on how to start run scale a business on eBay with firsthand insights from eBay employees on product launches and campaigns but it's not just about eBay it dies into external factors affecting your business like tax reporting marketing sales all the stuff that you're gonna have to figure out to sell stuff on eBay effectively build a business on eBay effectively what sets it apart they bring on eBay executives and successful sellers who've been there done that and are eager to share their experiences advice and tips if you have a burning question their Q&A sessions tackle sellers submitted inquiries all types of questions so you're always in the loop so this is what you got to do don't miss out on this go to source for all things eBay tune in to the eBay for business podcasts weekly wherever you get your podcasts it's time to take your business to the next level with insights from those who've already done it are you are you more personally invested in like things that are more early stage or do you like doing more profitable cash flowing later stage get a piece of yeah jack does all these franchises and whatnot right yeah yeah he's got a little bit more money than I do listen everyone plays at their own level it's all good that's right I was just saying that but you gotta know yeah yeah yeah more cash flowing more less risky you know there's a there's a time and a place for venture capital and for risky you got you got to understand you got your buckets and you got to use those buckets appropriately I mean it's not like you don't do any risky stuff but you try to look at the tranches and and how big the buckets are and then you allocate them accordingly and you know obviously if you're talking venture that's crazy risky but it's really worth there yeah so kind of picking and choosing so okay so now you know in your post player career obviously you you probably had some really hard investment lessons but you learned from them which is allowed you to have probably some successful investments now but you're still you know you're still trying to branch out and to what you're working on so when you look at a player's post post professional career you have investing you're building a business now is there a reason why you're choosing to do that why that category why travel business that of all things what was the logic behind that because obviously you only have so many hours in a day startups aren't easy you know that's correct yes um yeah actually it was my wife's passion project and something that you know she's loved traveling her whole life her dad the the genesis of the company basically started started around when she was six years old her dad was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer was given a 10% chance to live and with that took took the family on a European vacation that first summer when the kids got out school and he went off chemo and radiation to to go over on the trip she got to see him full of life and adventure and happy and and you know just excited to be around the family and and see these new new places and so she kind of from a young six-year-old's mind kind of looked at like oh my god traveling great my dad's healthy you know all these different things not really knowing what was going on behind the scenes and then they got home from that and he went back on chemo and radiation was just getting pounded and all the while was planning the next trip to Asia and it's funny this is like early eighties he's planning the next next trip to Asia and we wanted to marry eastern medicine and western medicine and wanted to learn more about transidental meditation and acupuncture and holistic healing methods and you know that was pretty forward-thinking in the early eighties when I think all that stuff was really thought of to be kind of voodoo and and you know crazy juju but you know they went over to Asia he immersed himself in the jungle for two or three weeks at a time learning all those things and you know they would go off and and see the sights and sounds and lo and behold all the while fighting for his life then he got back home you know got a call from his doctor bill I can theoretical new surgery I'm going to save your life you know had the surgery in two two years later so four years in was giving a clean clean bill of health and never had cancer again wow so she she got to see what travel could do for you could do for your mind you know my body spirit and and really kind of you know use travel as a tool for health and wellness and kind of bringing the family together all the different things that they used it for you know early in her life and so to fast forward you know they traveled a lot and then to fast forward when I met her I was in the peak of my career as we just discussed training and eating and doing all the things that that I did in the summertime she would ask me like why why don't you travel why don't you go anywhere I'm like I can't I go where am I gonna go there's no I don't want to eat the food that they cook I got to work out I got to do all these things she's like well let me research so she started researching places figuring out talking to shaft talking to you know finding out okay what kind of gym and you know early 2000s the gym was like the broom closet over there you know it really wasn't a whole lot to it like it is now with all the size of these gyms and some of these properties now but so she was kind of researching is there a gym nearby what can't you know can we get can we get them in did it all these things and so you know it's a small world and you know athletics is even smaller so you know people hear about you know what you did in the summer and hear about your travels and things like that and the trust factor of you know people started asking her you know where did you guys go how did you source it so she started helping people that way and and you know you friends of friends and etc and then when we got to Philly at the end of my career social media is kicking off and she posts you know on her private little Instagram account pictures of our travels and things and again more more more people that we knew actors and athletes whatever we're asking her hey where did you go I just source it you know that kind of stuff and so you know it started kind of clicking in her brain right you know we got 20 people asking me and like you should maybe turn that into a business that but I got her her mom got breast cancer and unfortunately your dad had a debilitating stroke and so you know we had three young kids at home so from a timing perspective it wasn't right and then we get back home here to St. Louis unfortunately your dad passed away but our your mom's good I'm good kids are getting older my oldest starts driving and and that kind of is the the precursor to her like all right I can now start kind of working on this putting some of the pieces together at the time I was working with the Florida Panthers a senior advisor to the GM and so I was helping her just make some connections and you know look at the financials and kind of that stuff and you know as she started building it out I was helping her and I'm like I kind of like this it's interesting the hospitality space everybody's happy yeah it's not like sports or everybody's mad yeah so it was yeah to me it was pretty interesting and you know so many great people and so many great stories amazing destinations and I was like yeah this is pretty cool and so I you know quit quit my job there and started working with her and you know working on my investment stuff but you know working on this business while inspired travels and you know just trying to you know start it from scratch and kind of build it up and of course you know right as we start getting going and you know get about a year into it COVID hits and yeah and that posed a few new issues and so it was you know it was interesting time but it was it it has allowed me to get a better perspective on a small business but be building a business what it what it takes a from a time commitment be from you know all the nuance that's involved in in a business even you know at this scale and and size it there's a lot of moving parts and a lot of things that that can happen that can derail the process so it's it's been a great learning experience and and something that you know we're we're continuing to work on and you know you had your investment criteria and and how you jump into something it's like you you go into it you understand that you unpack it you sort of break it down to its bare bones kind of like what that trainer did to you in your fourth year now when you're building a business was there any criteria that you applied against the business some some way that you want to build this business some criteria for the people you hire the way you scale what was like the biggest learning that has had the biggest impact on this basically start up that you're building out yeah I I think more or less create core values that that are going to be you know pillars of who we are what our businesses all about you know I think integrity is critical especially in this business with the information that you're handling privacy is critical I was very private when I was a player and I didn't like people knowing where I was going what I was doing what I was doing you know we don't talk about clients we don't discuss what goes on you know outside of the office you know I think philanthropy has always been a big part of you know who I am and who we are as a family and giving back and so we have a you know we make sure we we give money to a couple different causes here in St. Louis but but you know that their reach is global and and so we're able to you know invest back into the greater community if you will and try to be a beacon of hope in whatever way we can and you know I think as you look at a business it's it's it's character it's integrity it's hard work you know I think that's something that my wife knew going into it with me is that if if I say I'm going to do it then I'm doing it and it's it's I'm not dipping a toe in it is going to be both feet falling in and so you know it's it's putting the time and effort in aid to to learn the business and understand the business and then you know find ways that you can apply other skill sets that that you might have into the business that are going to give you a leg up and allow you the opportunity to excel and and grow and build your business to higher level and if you're going to if you're going to speak to an entrepreneur that that's starting something what would be the one tip or piece of advice that you give them don't don't do it in the service industry during the pandemic that's good advice I would just say like there's a lot of back office stuff you know you think I want to do this business it's going to be cut and dry and a lot of it is cut and dry but the from the taxes to the reporting to the you know the the back office stuff that a lot of people don't take the time to learn and understand that that can hit you all at once and and can you know take down it takes down a lot of businesses at times and prepare for it and get ready to be prepared you know emerge if you're going to do something immerse yourself in it understand it and and really kind of model it after how you how you would want a business to be you know as I look at it you know I want people like myself as playing so how would I how would I want to be contacted how what how would I want to be treated how would I you know and reverse engineer from there how do you get to that point very smart okay um wrapping this up uh I just want to get all the socials and where people can go check out well inspired go check out your social um connect with you and then I'll I have one question I ask every gas before we wrap up but first okay where are we going to send people so website socials where do you want to go to a good question uh at Chris pronger on Twitter I get a look here I remember I know where it is at the Chris pronger on Instagram at Chris pronger on Twitter at well inspired travels on Instagram and uh and then well inspired travels dot com beautiful okay those are all the handles for our stuff um last question so after your career as a player as an investor now a business owner entrepreneur what does success mean to you success to me is waking up every day excited to go in and see what the day is going to bring there's always something new to to work on always something new to to see especially in this travel business that we're in that there's always something interesting every day and you know getting to talk to people getting out of my comfort zone I was always an introvert when I as a youngster and and now I'm trying to turn the page on that be be be an introvert extrovert and and try to you know learn you know talking to people and I'm much more at ease talking to people than I certainly was when I played I hated talking to people and now you know you have to challenge yourself you have to get out of your comfort zone and I know I think a lot of people um struggle with a passion because inside of that passion is a fear and you know this was a passion mine I'm like you know what cold cold people I'll talk to people all the time I mean you know rejections rejection whatever now it doesn't matter