Brett Berish - President & CEO at Sovereign Brands | How to Make Your Brand Unbeatable

My first brand doesn't exist today. That is my most successful brand. The reason I say that is, it's because of that brand I've learned everything. Brett Barish, president and CEO of Sovereign Brands, knows the formula. From crafting the global sensation, Luke Belair, to developing top-selling rums like Bumble, and award-winning gins like McQueen and The Violet Fog, Brett has turned Sovereign into an international powerhouse. Brans, take time. If you stick to something for a long time, you're gonna have success. If you believe in something, you can do anything. It's not one thing that's made as successful. It's lots of things, trying lots of things. You gotta try a whole bunch of shit, maybe something will work. People make mistakes. All the time is, you're just setting yourself up to fail if you ask somebody to repaint it. But here's the real twist. He's not just creating products, he's building a culture, a movement with a self-made taste better campaign featuring icons from music sports and entertainment. It's the hardest thing in the world to do, try to convince somebody to do it differently. There was an easy one, I would all be doing it, but there's nothing that's easy. I don't think anybody's had more new, successful brands than us. It's a great side of it. If you believe in something, you can make it successful. Premium brands can exist everywhere in the world. Cheap brands, difficult. In this episode, Brett shares how he's repeatedly built game-changing brands and the secret sauce behind his partnerships with some of the world's most renowned producers. If you've ever wondered what it takes to turn a passion into a global empire, this is one story you won't want to miss. Welcome to success story. I'm your host, Scott Clary. The success story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network. I'm also a big user of HubSpot products. I've supported the show for over three years now and for all entrepreneurs out there, I need you to go back to a time and place when building businesses as tough as it is can be sometimes a little bit fun. When you're marketing, it should be fun. But marketing is not so fun anymore because it's very time consuming. It's very difficult and it feels like there's just a lot of friction. Content was simpler to make. Leads were easier to capture and we weren't all spread so thin. As marketers, as entrepreneurs, the bottom line is that marketing used to be fun. It's not so fun anymore. But with HubSpots newly launched marketing and content hubs, I've been using it myself. It brings a little bit of fun and creativity back into marketing for your business. They're going to generate better content. They're going to generate more leads and next level results, which really make marketing fun again. So with tools like content remix, you can turn existing assets into all new pieces with just one click. Lead scoring helps you shine a light on the leads that are most likely to purchase and analytic suites they built out will help you with reports, KPIs and just a gold mine of AI powered insights. It's quick to get your results. It's easy to use. It connects all your teams in your data. So put the fun back into your marketing funnel with HubSpot. Visit HubSpot.com to get started for free. Brett, dude, I'm excited you're down here. I'm excited to do this. Yeah, I love it. A lot of fun. I wanted to start this off because I think that most of your career has been a little bit contrarian. And I think that's actually how you've really succeeded. So just to sort of frame your thoughts around building a business. How do you look at building a business adopting like almost a contrarian perspective whenever you try and build something or design something new or think through something new? Because the way that you do things, I don't think is the way that 99% of people would do it. You know, for whatever reason, you just made me think of, I'm in high school right now. It's my senior year and I entered, it was like, it was called the Mr. Neutral Contest or my high school name. And it brings me back to that because I remember when you had to do your bathing suit contest or your night, you know, your form of work contest or your talent. I had to do it differently. I had to think differently from everybody else because my whole thing was I got to be different. How do I get noticed? And I think that's literally has never changed is I think to myself what's going to be special about this one moment. And for me, it's about all the moments trying to be different because I can't be like everybody else because they're going to have more talent, more money, more style, the look better, everything's better. I got to be different. Do you think that was something that you picked up from your family? Because your dad, so your dad was an executive at Jim Bean for 25 years, which is so interesting because if I think executive at Jim Bean, I don't think different. I think somebody that's actually in this huge machine, this is very this corporate behemoth. That's not a small company. So it's so funny because you're you did the same thing but different. You're still in spirits. You're still in liquor. You still create. Yeah, I don't, if you're asking where it comes from, I don't know. I think maybe it's I'm the youngest of my four brothers. And I need to stand out. Maybe it's insecurity. Maybe it's I don't know because the way the way I think about my dad right now, there's no question. I take tons of stuff that he's given me and his ability to sparkle in his eyes when he talks about the industry or talks about a brand or how he can engage people just about what he did for a living and he loved it. So I think I have that or he instilled that in me. But I don't know where it comes from but you're getting lately things are making me realize what I do today is no different than what I did in high school or what I did in grade school. How do I stand out because I don't have what everyone else has mentality? I think that's I think it's a very strong like mental space to build from because it creates this it creates this figure it out. I got to figure this shit out and it doesn't matter what I got to figure out. But I mean, I can't I can't rely on money. I can't rely on connections. I can't rely on doing things the way that everyone else has done it. And I think that's actually what allowed you to be as well. I think so. But at the same time, I'm also realizing like right now in in my career, which is 20 plus years now in this in starting this company, the first five or six years, I don't think I I did some things differently, but I did a lot of things based on what everyone else was doing. And that's where I kept making mistakes. Explain explain one mistakes. Oh, it's everything it's everything holds true from back then to today. You know, hiring people based on their industry experience, you know, I shouldn't have done that. I should based on today, I hire not today, but the past 15, 20 years I'm hiring people. I don't care about the industry experience. I don't care how they are. I don't care about what they know because I know I can teach them. But what I can't teach is that energy excitement enthusiasm. Wait for nobody. Go freaking make it happen yourself. Like that's different to work, you know, the way if somebody in this in our industry told me that this is the way you should build a brand, he's smarter than me. He's been doing it longer than me. Clearly he knows I'd follow his lead. I thought the way to do it. That's not. It's not. And it took me sometimes it takes maybe hopefully it's shorter today, but it takes me while to learn, you know, that I can't be like everybody else. There's some things I can do that it should be the same, but other things, no, no, you know, when you hear the words like this is the way it's always been done, I've always felt that's a death of a company. Like I don't know if you feel the same way, but it's almost like in your creative process and your business building process, you architected the you're going to push back against that repeatedly. And I think that's why you keep rolling out. Just got it's the hardest thing in the world to do is try to convince somebody to do it differently, especially when you need them, especially when they're ingrained in what they do, you know, whether it's a distributor and importer, somebody who's selling your brand, somebody who's marketing for you, it's it's there's a fine line because you want to piss them off, but at the same time it's like you got to convince them there's another way to do it or let's try this. It's very hard. It's very hard. So talk to me. I mean, like you come from a family that was in the categories called spirits, right? Just yeah, so spirit. So when you're growing up, is this something that you always wanted to do because I know that you even, I was listening to a couple different shows for we jumped on this. So you got in trouble in college for trying to be an entrepreneur in your dorm. So walk me through that story, maybe like the first version of your entrepreneurship. Well, there were multiple versions, but that one, I went to University of Florida in Gainesville. I was living in the dorms and I think I had just seen some historical, not historical. It was about the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Terrible Towel and which was this towel they all waved during the heyday of the Steelers. And I thought, I want to do this, I want to do this for Florida. And I came up with this design and we called it, I called it the Gator of the Whip and Rag with an alligator on it. And ultimately, it started selling it out of the dorms, had a big article written about me. It was funny in the Gator times. And then they kicked me out of the dorms because I wasn't supposed to have a business in the dorms. But I was the kid. I was, I described myself, there are those people in life who are fortunate enough to know exactly what they want to do. God bless them. I think that's an amazing feeling. For me, it was, I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I had lots of ideas. And I didn't pick any because I was afraid that idea that I wanted to choose wasn't the one, one. And I never have another good idea again. So therefore, you're just kind of lost. You're kind of treading water and treading time. And that was me. So it wasn't until my 30s where I just, I, I just had to pick something and I picked this industry and I've never looked back. That's why because at the end of the day, it's all about action, obviously. But to just say, I'm picking an industry like you're planting a flag in it and you're going to figure it out regardless. Okay. So, but I wanted, but, but I remember being in college in high school and I wanted to do 100% at GABE tequila before it was 100%. I wanted to own, I wanted to buy liquor store chain in Chicago that I thought I could develop the next, the next big, you know, office max, staples and liquor business, which was a great idea back then. But I just, I didn't have the confidence to pull anything off if that made sense. I got to come to myself on an easy industry. Yeah, but no industry is easy. There's a, if there was an easy one, we'd all be doing it, but there's nothing that's easy, nothing that's easy. Yeah, that's true. It's very true. I look at second from like a tech background. So to me, figuring out supply chain and logistics and regulatory is like, fuck that. Like, like, honestly, fuck that. So to me, that seems like a huge lift. But I guess if you come from it, then you kind of know your way around a little bit. It's not easy, but it seems like a, well, I tell people, I still say this line and I still believe it is, um, the best thing about me with this industry is I'm an, I, I understand it. I appreciate it, but I'm not too close to it because I never worked in it. And I think if you're too close to something, you miss the opportunity to, you don't see it. Even today, you know, I love liquor stores. I hate liquor stores. I don't want to go in. It's overwhelming. It's too many brands. I'm, it's visually too much for me going to a total of wines. And it's, it's insane. It's like possible with, so for me, it's, it's, I don't want to be tainted. I want to look at it from fresh from an outsider's perspective. And I still think that way. So I get lots of ideas, not from our industry, trying to think about it from a different perspective. When I even look in, when I walk through the aisles, like, I can tell everyone's trying to stand out at the same time no one's standing out. It's very hard. So when you look, I mean, you're, like, the bottles are beautiful. Like, I think that's the first thing I noticed. Like, the bottles are very beautiful. But they don't look like all the other bottles that you can tell with probably 99% of brands out there, what that drink is just based on the bottle. But you don't do that. I don't think you do that. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, no, I do. I do. I, I, it's true actually. If I look at Deakin, which is the new one, which is my scotch, it doesn't look like the category. It doesn't look like the industry. So for me is it's this, it goes back to this idea that I can't outspend the big guys. I can't outspend them on marketing and I can't force it on people. So I need to stand out. That's how I think about it. So everything is in the design. At least I believe it is. So there's a story. There's a story about the color, about the name, about the, the, the feeling of the bottle when you touch it about the, whether it's debossed or embossed, where it's debossed, where it's embossed, you know, what the, what the copy says, what the court looks like, all those things mattered to me. What, what was the first version of, the first company started to build that, he said, 30? Yeah. Oh, I, in my mid 30s when I started sovereign. Okay. So that was that. So it's been around for 20 plus years. What was the first version of it? Well, my first brand, my first brand does exist today. And I always say that that is my most successful brand. And the reason I say that is it's because of that brand. I've learned everything. I learned how to build brands. I learned how to be patient. I learned how to trust my own instincts. I learned my, you know, I've lots of sayings. If anybody's going to fuck it up, it's got to be me. I learned not to rely on anybody back then. I, when people said they do things, I assume they do and I'd sit and wait for it. So that brand taught me and it doesn't exist. Everything that I've done since and I think were them, I don't say this in a boasting way. I don't think anybody's had more new successful brands than us. And, but I say that proudly in, in, in, in telling the next brat out there who wants to develop the next brand, what all my brands haven't come is no one believed in them. No one thought they would work. No one. And I, to me, it's a great side of if you believe in something, you can make it successful. Why, why would no one believe in any of these brands? And again, I want to, I think that it's really important that Ace of Spades, that exit was very publicized and it was, it was a big in the news of whatnot. And then I heard you on a, I think it was another Miami podcast actually. And the guy asked, so nobody believed in you even after that, they still don't, but that's wild to me. Like, what, what does it, what does it take? That's super impressive for it. I, I should say, is it, maybe it's easier? Maybe it's always a little bit easier. Maybe it opens the door a little bit more. Maybe the meeting's a little bit longer. But it goes back to what you said is, is, you know, this is the way it's been done. This is the way you look at it. So if you, even if you look at it, I, I, again, another saying is I hate data. I hate trends. I'm, if something's hot, I don't want to do it. Because if I'm not already part of that trend, it's too late. So if you think about champagne, there is no champagne. It's back, you know, there is no new champagne. No one goes into that category. It's the last category you want to enter. Because it's old and it's controlled by one company, which is Moa had to see, which is all the champagne. So, you know, you're entering a category that everyone sink. Come on. It's never going to work. And now you're pricing it more expensive than any other champagne. And now you're putting it in this gold, you know, shiny bottle that looks nothing like everyone else. And it's not a vintage. It's a multi vintage. So all those things are completely going against the grain of what anybody else would do. So it's true. The average person would say, this is not going to work. It's not going to work. When you look back to that, the first brand, it doesn't exist anymore. What would be, you said, you had a whole bunch of learnings and lessons and stuff like that. What would be the biggest success and best lesson of that, but also like the biggest failure from that first one. The thing that was like the shit hitting the fan moment for ACE or my first neural for your first brand, because I love like the stories at the beginning. I think the probably the biggest lesson is it wasn't still is. It's not about quantity. It's about quality and everything. And any sale, I'd rather have 10 accounts do really well than have 100 counts with a bottle. To me, it's, if you're in 100 accounts and nothing's happening, there's this, you feel like you're rushing just to make sales. To me, success is, you gotta have each one is successful because it helps the next one. So I still believe that. And I still tell my team that and I still think that way. Success wise, I think, I don't, I look at the negatives more than the positives. I mean, that's actually a very healthy way because then you pay attention to the things that are not working out so well. But it goes back to these sayings and literally I believe these things. My brother and I have a saying, you know, every meeting is a great meeting until you leave the room. Every meeting. And the key is, how do you keep them in the room? How do you keep them engaged? How do you keep people talking about you? How do you make noise? How do you shut? You know, we're not talking about the brands or business. No one else is talking about it. How do you have to micromanage? You got to be a parent to the brands. You got to, when they're little, you got to do all the littlest tiny things with a baby. You know, you got to wash away to clean them. You got to feed them. You got to make sure they don't fall out if the same with brand building. So it's life lessons about how to build something and gradually get it to grow. I can't force my eight-year-old to be more than he's an eight-year-old. That's what he is. So there's lots of things. When you look at, when you look at even like the brands that you have right now, what is the strategy? What's the framework behind? This is what we're going to put out into the world. This is the story behind it. This is who I want it to resonate with. So I take bamboo. Yeah. So bamboo we launched maybe five or six years ago. The goal was, the goal wasn't is I want to create a new level of rum. Premium. I think rum is unappreciated. And when you look at it again, it goes back to this idea. If you look at trends, and if you ask anybody in our industry, they would say stay away from rum. Well, it's probably going to say go to tequila. Correct. Well, that's the hot thing. So rum is not hot and it's declining. And you've got these big giant brands like Captain Morgan and Bacardi. And I want to do something that's better than them. I think there's a better product out there for consumers. I think there's a product that tastes better for them. And it's more premium. And we hit on a taste that we love. And then we created a story around it and brought history in. So there's a story around bamboo. It back in the 16th century merchants who travel the West Indies, the Caribbean didn't like the taste of rum, which they called grog. And they would craft their own out of it. And they would call it bamboo. And we brought that back. So once we have all that, then it's it's it's it's push, it's birthed into the world. Yeah. But I don't know we have yet. So I kind of let things breathe. And you figure it out. So now fast forward, not even fast forward Canada, where you're from, is our single biggest market in the world for bamboo, single biggest outside the United States. And I jokingly say until this year, no one from our companies ever been there. That's so funny. So there was a gap in the market. Well, it's it's a it's a to me. It's always it's not a gap. To me, it's it's off with anything. If it's a great brand, people find it. You know what else? I've known. So I used to drink a whole bunch of Captain Morgan. That was like my my high school drink. That was like go to drink. But there was no story behind it. Nobody gave a shit. It was just like the cheap tequila wasn't really that big when I was in like high school university. So it was always Captain Morgan. But then the second you find something else, you move off of it because you don't really care. There's no affinity to that. There's no story behind it. But you were I think in one of the videos I was watching, you were saying that this is in like 30, at least when the video was pushed out, there's 35 countries. And you can't even get it in more countries because you're always selling out. But actually today, it's in 80 country. Oh shit. Okay. Sorry. No, no, no. But it's it's but what's what's fantastic about this story is. And again, it goes back to this idea that if you believe in something, it can happen. We're in we're in like 80 countries today. And there's only one market in the world. And I didn't even know that's a premium run market and that's France. We do well everywhere in the world. And all these markets are not premium run markets or they're not even run markets. And we crush it. It's a great brand. If your brand is great, it'll get talked about people will find it. They'll consume it. And I also believe in premium. It's like your Captain Morgan example. I think premium brands can exist everywhere in the world. Cheap brands. It's difficult. When you think about building out a brand, do you care if there's going to be like a wave or a cultural shift towards that thing? Or do you not care? Do you just want to get a little like, are you banking on rum becoming the next tequila? Or do you not care? Maybe you're just thinking I just want to be a significant part of the existing market. And we're going to be premium. And we're going to be talked about. We're going to we're going to have loyalty from our customers and evangelists from our country. You know what I'm saying? I think you you can't can't see the future. But look at Patron. And I always used to laugh when people would say, and I get presentations. You know, I want to be the next Patron. You know, I just want 1% of the category. And Patron took 30 plus years. So thing, if it happens over a night, God bless. But that's not the way it's supposed to be. And I was that person who had that report that business plan that said, I'm going to get one percent or five percent of the industry and the multiples are, you know, 20 times. And I'm going to sell it for X. That's where I make mistakes. That's where people make mistakes. If you have a healthy brand and you're growing, you're going to get there no matter what. And when you launch these, these are kind of like your kids to a degree. How do you think through? As an entrepreneur, because this is very subjective, people could launch a brand and they want to hold on to it forever. And they never want to exit it. Never want to sell it. How do you think through that? Do I want to keep it? Do I want to sell it? Do I want to? What? I get it goes back to this idea that when I was younger, when I started this, my mistake was thinking about the exit before you even start. And I think that to me is my mistake. And maybe it's a mistake for a lot of people out there. I don't think about that. If it happens great, but I don't think, boy, now I'm ready to sell or the brand is mature enough for this is the time. I don't think like that. My goal is build the brand. You keep building it either whatever happens will come, but focus on brand building. That's the key. Do you feel like when somebody's focusing on the exit first, they're trying to take shortcuts or they're not paying attention? They're not built. It's not real. It's not, to me, I don't know. I'm that guy who I have to love and have passion for what I'm doing because the exit may not ever happen. So you've got to, to me, it's about being in that moment of loving what you're doing because exit doesn't matter. That's not the goal. So, and the only reason I can say this, Scott is, is and I tell this story to people. So I, I've lost everything in this world and I've gained everything by being in this business. So there was a moment where I didn't have investors and they wanted to wind up the company. And I remember speaking to my mom, we were bringing a board meeting that day and I remember speaking to my mom, who was my hero. And I was telling her about it and she says, Brad, I'll sell my all my rings for you. And I said, no, I'll figure this out. But I remember telling her, I was sending them Worcester and Brum Street and Soho outside because I didn't want that I'd fake apartment, which was my office and a couple of employees up there. I remember telling her, I love what I'm doing. And if I could just survive, make it up money to live this way and keep doing what I'm doing. I'm happy. And I needed that moment because then it's not about the money. It's just I'm happy. I got to love what I'm doing and let things come as they go. I love that. I wish more. I wish more entrepreneurs would hear that message because I think that this is a great exercise. I don't think people actually even realize how much money they actually need to survive. And the things that they think are out of their reach or they would only ever get if they were worth pick a number, could be 10, 50, 100 million, whatever it is, whatever your number is. The things that you actually want in your life are actually not that expensive. And I think the most people threw that. The trips, the work life balance that you want to have a private chef, you don't have to have a hundred million dollars to do that. I remember I was speaking to a city bank conference about disruptive brands. And I was the next person to go on and the person who was up there before me had started a company called Casper, the bed company. The mattress. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess at that time, Casper was one of those unicorns. And he was saying it was crazy. He was saying how they're in whatever seven continents they've got 2,000 or 10,000 employees. They're global business within a year. And they've raised X billions of dollars. And I remember going up afterwards and saying, if you think I'm going to tell that story, I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to raise money like that. God bless them. I only know how to do what I've done. So there's different paths to get there. But I don't know how to do the other one. I only know how I've gotten to where I am. Yeah. But then the question is, like, are you happy? Sure. Oh, 100. So that's really all that not 100% that are you happy with 100%? Listen, when I say, are you happy? It's not saying that this has not been highly successful to have the reach you've had. You've had you've had you've sold brands before and throughout it has been ups and downs. But ultimately, you knew your north star. But it's true. And it's you're you're hitting on which I try to tell my team all the time. Success is relative. So this is already successful. This is doing more than I ever could have imagined or anybody else could ever imagine. So I have to be happy with it. It's still small in relative terms compared to other things out there. But I got to be happy with it. This Deacon we just launched is in 60 countries. I love the I love the plague mask on the. Oh, yeah. That's good. But that's like it's all relative to what you what your own expectations are. So I don't want to just like kids, you can't force them. I can't force my son to be better at soccer. You know, he is what he is. So you got to be happy with with how far they've come and oh, that's why I look at it. A big shout out to HubSpot and the HubSpot podcast network for sponsoring success story. If you enjoy success story, you're going to enjoy a ton of podcasts brought to you by the HubSpot podcast network, including hustle and flow chart hosted by Joey Fier. The hustle and flow chart podcast with Joey is all about how to build a business. So it gives you the freedom and fuel for your life. You're going to join Joey as you discuss his systems, mindset tweaks, reframes and strategies for entrepreneurs and really anyone to enjoy the process of being in business and having fun. This isn't for entrepreneurs looking to build a billion dollar business. It's for somebody who wants to build a lifestyle, somebody who is looking to build systems that work. Listen to hustle and flow chart wherever you get your podcasts. I think that when I think that successful entrepreneurship, if you know your North Star, you know what would make you happy and then you can stay in the game long enough. I think that's like the secret. I think a lot of people, they have these unrealistic expectations and then the work doesn't align with those expectations and then they don't want to stay in the game long enough and then they and then they get nothing out of it. But if you can stay in the game long enough, I thought about this a lot. Like if you're building any business, if you do it for 10 years, there's a really good chance that you are going to be financially quite well off. If you're not an idiot, you've learned from your mistakes, you iterate, maybe you pivot a little bit. It's not going to be the same year 10 as it was day one, but I don't think you're going to be hurting. I don't know anyone who hurts when they do one thing for 10 years, 100%. If anything, that's what I've learned. So if you ask me, Brett, do you still have new ideas? I always have ideas, but I don't want to do anything else because I've learned that this is what I know best and this is where I've made the most mistakes and I've learned the most. So why would I do anything else? It's literally starting over. So if you stick to something for a long time, you're going to have success. There's no matter one in 20 plus 20 and still going and still growing. When you, one thing that you've done very well, because then I'm doing research and I see the people that are sitting around table, drinking all your, like, these like DJ Khaled and Rick Ross, I mean, like, the big names, how do you, I think most brands miss this, but how do you get a brand to be so tied into culture? That's not easy. I think it's, to me, culture is something you can't buy, you can't force yourself into. It just, it evolves. And I think that's what we've done as a company. We just keep evolving. We stay true, culture is stay true to yourself, you know, and I think that's what we've always been. So if you ask me the things that we do today are the same things we've done 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, I still lean into music, I still love hip hop. The way we brand build the way we, the way we move, it's just a natural organic evolution. And that, to me, is culture. Culture today, like, like, we've moved into, I use Africa as an example, we're doing great business in Africa. I'm a huge fan of Africa. I'm now a huge fan of Afrobeats music in Africa. I'm piano music in Africa. African artists, we're leaning into that. Guess what? Culture is also leaning into that. So, but you're as a founder, you're not just like, oh, let's pay an influencer. You are actually putting yourself into, like, you're learning about Africa, but you're not just saying from a boardroom, let's go find a way to spread it across Africa. And let's get this into all these different restaurants or whatever or stores in Africa. I mean, you're literally learning more about Afrobeats and music and culture yourself. And that's how you win 100%. So to me, it's, I have to go down and get dirty and know what's going on in the market. I'm, to the end of this week, I'm going to Asia versus seven visiting seven countries. I'll come away with ideas. I'll come away with thoughts by being in the market, visiting accounts, talking to people, you got to do that. Yeah. I think that's probably the, because people don't want to get their hands dirty. They don't want to get, how do you, and oh, go ahead, sir. No, no, I think the most important thing I can do is the head of our company is if I'm in the office, I can't accomplish anything. But if I'm in the field, that's where I can really accomplish things. And on the flip side of that, your understanding culture, your understanding how to integrate this into what's trending or what not. When you talk to some of these, like, huge rappers, like a DJ Khaled or a Rick Ross, how do you get them on board? Well, I was just going to say, I don't, what I don't do is, I don't follow trends. Again, I go back to, it's, to me, it's, it's not about who's hot in music. I don't care who does our pretty hot music. I mean, no, but, but I'm not picking people saying, gosh, that guy's hot. I really want to connect with him. Everybody that we've ever worked with, love the brands, want to be involved with the brands. They love the brand, whether it's a, whether they were a small artist at the time, like Post Malone, who loved Bel Air, was my first interview as probably one of our first ambassadors. But he just loved the brand. Who knew he would turn into what he's become, but it wasn't based on what's hot. It's, it's the, it's a real association to the brand. And that's what's important to me. There's so many brands talk about authenticity, but I don't think I've ever actually believed that a brand is authentic. I'm talking to you. I don't even know how else to describe it. It's like, you just, there's no, there's no bullshit in how you take a product and whose hands you put it into and, and the communities and the audiences that you, you serve. It's just, we create great products, and we just, if people like them, that's awesome. Correct. I think to me, it's, it's, it's not going to get you there fast, but to me, it's real. Meaning I, I, I would rather, and I think this is about this as me as the consumer. I want to feel like I'm discovering a product. I don't want to be, I don't want to be told to take this product. I want to be told to try this. I want to feel like I'm discovering. And to me, that's good brand building. Let the person find it. Let him discover it. Let him experience it. Let him take ownership of it. I was going to say, I don't think a lot of brands do that well. I think they can, I think, again, there's other ways to do it. And they have a lot more money than me. And they can get there. But maybe it's not a healthy brand. And maybe it's not going to stick around. But to me, all the best brands started small. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't in a white lab in, in, in Rye, New York, that created it. You know, it was some small little, in the back of your garage built brand. That's what's happened. I can't hear great stories about, ever met him, the guy from Under Armour. You know, it just, he believes in his brand. You got to believe in it. And that's how brands get built. Tell me just very briefly, because I know that Ace of Spades was like, obviously a, a big name, a big part of that journey. And you said it was the best and the worst thing that ever happened to you. So just tell me the story of how that came to be, because I'm sure people are interested in that. So I get, I get that was my first big successful brand. And, and I do, I have five, I have six kids in my house. And I treat these brands like they're my children that I have blood, sweat, tears, everything's poured into this. So when I did have the opportunity, as you described, of selling something, um, at that time, I had one brand, but lots of other brands that I wanted to launch, but I didn't have any money. So it's a funny thing in business when you can have a successful brand, but you can be poor, because all your money's in that brand, all your money's in that thing. And I wanted to do Bel Air. I wanted to do Bumble. I wanted to do other brands. Um, and I decided I, I think I could, I should sell this and I can become bigger now. And that's exactly what happened. So in one way, it's the worst decision because you're selling a child. And the other way, now I'm bigger and stronger and I'm, I'm, I'm, I'll be 10, 100 times the size as, as I was before. So that to me is the experience, but that's, that to me is how I got here up the ladder. I could I have raised money? Sure, I could have, but then I would have had to take on partners. Could I have done other ways to get there? I could have, but there are repercussions to that. So to me, this is the way I wanted to do it. I think it's, I think it's great. I think that it's hard to let go of something that you built. It is very, very hard. I like, I mean, it would be strange for me to think about that through the lens of this podcast, for example. I mean, like it's kind of, like I built myself. What is, what if a company, you know, came by and said, Hey, we want to buy your podcast, your, your likeness, your IP, and you can stay on as a host, but now we own it. I mean, that would be difficult. I'd be very difficult, but strategically, maybe that lets me do a ton of other stuff that I wanted to do that I couldn't do. So I think that at the end of the day, brands are like a baby, your company's like a baby, but also strategically, where can you take this if you get cash? And now look at, now look at what you built with it. Correct. So, you know, if you ask me, do I, what I've done it differently, I can't think of it that way, because this is how out of your life is journey. Correct. Correct. But there's always a tide. I wanted to do well, because I want these brands to live forever. That's my goal is I want to live forever and be have their place in the world. I'm, I'm also curious. Why did that name becomes such a big name? Asa Spades in particular. What was the thing? I think like anything, again, it's such a funny thing because I'm experiencing this with all the brands. Time makes brands. It's time. It's, you know, for all the people out there who, you know, for the years and years who had never heard of Asa or Monde Briniac, they begin to hear about it and the brand bit begins to become bigger and it takes a lot of life of its own. Belair, same thing now, Bambu now, you know, the success it's having, people are hearing about it, they're talking about it. So it just, it's time. That's when brands start kicking in this time. And when you look at other celebrity brands, why do a lot of them not do that well? Some do. Some, I mean, if you look at 90% of them fails, like Aviation Gin. That's what I, what was one that, um, uh, the cloney that was a cast of, uh, yeah, Casamigos, that one did well. These are like billion dollar and Aviation Gin was Ryan Reynolds. It's a billion dollar company. But for every billion dollar company, there's probably a whole bunch that didn't do well. So what is the, I think, I think a couple of things, I think one timing is everything in that, in sometimes in this space. And I think cloney was early in the idea of backing brands. Um, I also think I, I would say most don't work. Um, there's tons and tons of celebrity brands that haven't worked. And from what I've seen, it's, they're in it for the money and it's not for the love of the brand or building a business. And you know, if works great, if it doesn't, who cares? Um, and I think that's why always great brands are, again, it's, it's somebody who's, who's putting everything into it, who's made it successful. Um, and those are the best brands. Those are always the best brands. Sorry, I was going to say, because you see all these influencers trying to launch wine brands and sellers and, and, uh, I, I just want like an influencer thought leader, not like mega mega celebrity, but somebody that looks at, I'll give you an example. So my better half, Gina, she runs a, a meme account called my therapist says, and they were thinking about launching a wine. And they haven't done it yet, but I've always thought like, okay, so what do we have to, how do we launch? I have no idea how to even start launching a wine. They have a big audience, about 8.5 million, uh, women from the ages of like, I don't know, late 20s to late 30s in New York, LA Miami. But I don't just want to launch a wine for the sake of launching a wine. Maybe it even be better for her to partner with somebody who's starting it and take a small equity position and act as their marketing way. But for a creator that does want to launch something, I don't want them to just give up. So I have to like appreciate an entrepreneur. So what would be the advice that they don't obviously not focus on the money, but then what would be the advice for a creator who doesn't want to launch a brand or a liquor or a wine or a spirit? I would, I would say the best way I would say it is play devil's advocate with them. You're assuming that you're that once you make a post about this, it's going to be successful. So we'll constantly ask the following question, what if it doesn't work once you make that post? What are you going to do? What are you going to do? Because that's the thing that I think lots of celebrities or anybody with an influencer thinks is boy, if I just do a post, if I just show this, if I just do this, maybe the biggest basketball player in the world, biggest football player in the world, that's all I have to do. But if it doesn't fly day one, what are you going to do? So that's when you have to decide, am I willing to get down and dirty? What am I willing to do to make this successful? How deep am I willing to go? How much time am I willing to spend on this? Because to me, that's when you know if you really want to do something or not. Do you want to get down and dirty? Do you want to go visit accounts? When it's not, when it's not easy like that. Yeah, I think that's good advice. I think it's an incredible advice because I know a lot, not just influencers themselves, but a lot of people who want to partner with influencers, and they just want to say, well, what if we just do a few posts? But my example is a real life one. I've had lots of famous people, I have known to me, I have no doubt because I would love to do something and my person, that's always my first question. What are you going to do? And they're shocked when they say, when I say, what if it doesn't work on their first post, they're shocked because everyone should think what's this expression, their shit doesn't sting. It does. And if it doesn't work, what are you going to do? And probably I could name nine or ten that have gone off and launched it. And guess what? It didn't work. Didn't work. Do you take on like JVs, like join Fantras with celebrities or no? No, no, no. I'm always interested. I'm always curious and it always comes back to, why do they want to do it? Like, and again, God bless them, if they can get the money, if they can get the partnership, if someone's willing to do something, and all the time I tell my friends who manage artists or manage people, if you can get it, take it. But for me, it's, I got to spend the next five, 10 years building something, you know, and my brands, you know, this deacon, this is not going to be truly successful in my opinion for another eight, nine years. It's a different, it's a different way to look at it. But I'm willing to wait. I don't mind the ride. I'm fine with it. I'm fine. Brands take time. I think that such a healthy way to look at business building, brand building, I think that doesn't even matter. Celebrity, influencer, everybody's attention span and, and everybody wants instant gratification in anything, 100% and I think that kills entrepreneurship. I think it kills business, it kills brands for sure. It's not that it even kills it. It's just impossible. It's just impossible unless you are like horseshoe up your ass lucky. It is virtually impossible to build anything worthwhile in a short period of time or, or put differently. I don't know how to do it. That's it. Like they're there, but if I add hundreds of millions of dollars, I wouldn't know how to meaning to put into marketing and feel like maybe there's a way to do it. I just wouldn't know how to do it because that's not how I've done it. Play something. The second you take on, you've built out a great business and you're not killing yourself. You also have a family and you also have balance and you also take care of your kids and so when you start taking on money, all of a sudden there's pressure and now like people don't just put in money to get like a two X in 10 years. VCs put in money to get like a 10 X as soon as possible. I had that early on and that's why they wanted to wind it up because they weren't getting the return that they wanted. So they didn't want to do this and I looked at it as God have learned so much. Like we're just getting started. Like we're figuring, yes, we made mistakes, but I'm learning and that's the key to this is you keep learning, keep making mistakes, keep trying shit, but but but you probably feel the difference in how you build a business now versus when you took VC money. You not feel less pressure. Oh, 100% yeah, 100%. Again, this sort of takes us back to as an entrepreneur. Like what do you want in your life? Because now you have now you have balance and just talk to me about that. Talk to me about the balance and maybe the guard rails that you put on your work life. Oh, it's a good question. I'd say I'm just as driven. I'm just as you know, anything I'm a perfectionist, anything negative eats and kills me and it ruins me. Nothing's changed. The balance comes from there's no question having security helps in life. That's where the balance comes in because you have, I have something that that hopefully take away from me. It creates calmness where I have to be reminded this constantly where where we've achieved something. But my family is critical to me because to me, I learned from them about building brands. I tell a story. I always joke about this. So my son is 10. He's great at math. He's wicked at reading. And my daughter is nine. She is a great artist. She can draw. She can write. She's fantastic in art. My son is a horrible artist. He's just horrible. My daughter can't remember anything and can't, doesn't read well. What do you do his parents? You lean in on what they're good at and you backfill later. That's brand building. That's building a business. It's taught me. You lean in on what's working and you try to support over time what's now working. That's how you build a business. I love that. But I wouldn't have known that until I let the brands go, let the kids, you learn about your kids, you learn in Canada, we crush it, lean into it, lean into where it's working. In the US, Bel Air, there's a saying in our industry, you build it on premise bars and restaurants to sell it off-premise at retail. Bel Air retail, day one, people lofted it. We lean in the retail. We still haven't focused on on premise bars restaurant. Really? Yeah. So how long has this been in the month? 10 years? Yeah. But there's so much out there. There's so many. But that's where we learn what's working, what doesn't, Deakin right now in Japan is flying. What are we going to do? We're going to lean in there. It's always, again, you don't know what you have until you put it out in the world then you figure it out. But you have to be open to those signals from the market, from the world that you have to be. Because I think that also entrepreneurs, they try and do too much and they try and do everything and be everything to everyone. And this is where I remember watching the Michael Jordan the Netflix. Yeah. Duck the series. And Phil Jackson said, you know, you got to constantly pivot. And it's true. Business is constantly pivoting, constantly evolving, constantly moving, constantly learning. And to me, that's how you get there. That's it. It's, it's, again, letting things breathe and figuring out, I remember here's a good analogy. I was interviewing, he's an artist named Russ. Russ told me that in his early days, he'd be on SoundCloud and he would see that he had fans in the state of Washington. He's like, I'm going to Washington. I'm going to go show them love and support because I fans there. He'd see it, he had fans in Dubai in the Middle East because they thought he was Middle Eastern. He's not. He's from Jersey. But he'd go there and support his fans. That's brand building. That's brand building. Take what you get. Don't try to force. It's not coming from New York. Don't worry about it. If it's coming from somewhere else, you build around that. That's what we try to do. What do you, what do you do to, and this that's brand building, but create a great product. I mean, acetase, good, has to, has to head home. What's the process of creating a great product that you think people love? You like, ask a whole bunch of people, sample it out. What do you do? We, well, this, we trust our gut and their instinct. Yeah, you just didn't do this for so long that it's not bad. It's, it's just, it's, if you were in our Chicago office, it's happened to be by, and I'd say, it's got come in. I got an tape shot and something. We're going to take a shot and tell them, what do you think? What do you think? So it's not based on, it's, it's tried at the end of the day. Again, it goes back to this idea. If anybody, if anybody's going to fuck it up, it has to be me. It has to because I have, but I think Bumble was better than every other room from a taste. I think our package speaks to something. Our story speaks to something. Deakin takes better than any other whiskey out there. Irish, American Japanese, Canadian, we taste, but I believe it. I can sell something. I believe it. That's it. That's it. That's the most important. I spoke a little bit about social media, but also how influencers can't just, we spoke about it from the context of influencers trying to launch brand, but obviously you, you kill it on social. So social is a big opportunity. I also, you got to check out, like if people are listening, got to go check out your podcast. So I mean, you interview some of the biggest, you know, musicians, artists, rappers, celebrities. So phenomenal podcast. But how do you think about social when it comes to brand building? To me, so we don't advertise, we don't do traditional advertising. And to me, what social media does, it gives me a barometer of my brands having success, because I'm not buying the consumer. I'm not buying fans. So to me, it's an authentic way to see. And if I use again, my brands, bamboo as more followers in Captain Morgan and McCarty, those are billion dollar brands. And I have more followers. I am doing something right. I'm connecting with the consumer. They want to be attached to me. They want to see the brands. They want to see what's happening. So to me, it's working that way. I love influencers. I think everybody's an influencer. It could be a bartender. It could be someone you meet on the street. Doesn't matter who it is. But the key, the key is to support your fans. And that's what we try to do is support everybody who's supporting us. How do you, how do you get that authenticity through social? Because to, by the way, that's phenomenal. I didn't know you had more followers. No, it's and beller to beller has more probably than any other liquor brand. If I add up, it's, it's a couple Instagram sites. But that, that, that shows we, we, it's authentic. It's real from the consumer perspective. But to me, it's, it's, it's, it's always about showing love to people who support you. You know, I was talking about the whiskey or in Japan. We have all these bartenders who are now, or taste makers who are now tasting and drinking Deakin who are putting it out there. We're supporting them. I want to show them off. I want people to see them and try and light on them. It's always about trying to shine the light back on those who love us. And that's how, that's how you win. That's how you win. Because you're not just, you're not, I mean, if people look, look up your YouTube, for example, you see all these big stars. But that's not the only people that you're supporting. It's not just the big stars. It's the, it's the bartender that's, that I got it. I got it. And, and I think too many brands do focus on like the a list talent. And not everybody else that really is influential. Because who do you listen to? Do you listen to the bartender? Like, if I see, I, I love DJ Khaled. But if I see the DJ Khaled, okay, I'm a little bit influenced. But if I'm at a bar and the bartender tells me what to drink, that's who I listen to. Correct. So the way I look at it is, I'll use a nifty analogy. Um, he said, Brett, you got to go pop your trunk. And I said, nifty, what does that mean? It, it means I'm going to go down to Compton. I'm going to take my car. I'm going to pop my trunk and sell my goods, sell it. You got to be able to get down and dirty. I'm an old school brand builder. I believe I've got to get into the bars, get into the restaurants, get in, meet the retailers, go out and sell my brands. That's how brands are built. You just, it's door to door. And all the other stuff helps. But that's the most important thing I can do is convince somebody that might, and I'm going to taste you. I want to taste you on it. I want you to try your, what a competitor and I guarantee you, I've got a better product. It's old school. I'm going to be able to do that anymore. But that's what we're, but all the, all the other stuff helps. Social media helps and, and, uh, you know, everything else we do helps. But I believe it's the most important thing you can do. And that, to me, hasn't, the industry hasn't changed. I still think that's where it's constant. Like, I, I believe that shit. I believe it. I firmly believe it. So give me, like, paying a picture. So you, you just, uh, did a tour through Europe. And you mentioned that you're doing a tour through Asia as well. So you will spend as little time in the, in the office as possible when you're going on these tours. What are you doing? I'm meeting with our importer. And so that's, that's, we have an importer who manages our brands in those countries. So when I go to Japan, my first goal is I want to meet everybody, all the sales team, everybody possible and tell our brand stories because I want them to hear it from me. And then I want to go visit the accounts of them. I want to see the accounts. I want to see the buyers, either accounts that already supporting our brands because I want to thank them because that's the most brand I could do. Or take me to the accounts that they want to win over. And let me tell the story of our brands so that can share our story. Um, and that's those are the back to the basics of brand building, of getting out there. That's what I have to do. How many other CEOs do this? Um, I, I don't think many. I mean, I don't want you to talk bad about other companies. That's not, that's not the goal. I think that maybe they send somebody, send an account manager. And of course, there's scale to this. Like I mean, like if you are a multinational CEO, as to, if you're a publicly traded company, a CEO, as to manage a company, but I think for as long as you possibly can, the lesson is like boots on the ground, do the hard work, shake the hands, kiss the babies, whatever you got to do in person. I think that makes a big difference. Yeah. What do they say about politics, retail politics, right? Get in the market. It's true, though. But, but again, there's other ways to build companies and brands. I just know the way I've been doing it and the way I want to do it. I think people over index on the other way, people over index on the no human to human interaction that doing everything online, the figuring out the perfect ad spend and the perfect channels. And yes, it works. But I think the X factor, the, the, the, the, the entrepreneur motor and what people call the founder mode is doing things that that don't scale until they do. And I think that that's why you're successful. And I think of more entrepreneurs, especially at the beginning, did it the way you do right now? I think that I'm more success, like actually stepping into offices and, and, and rooms. I think it's, well, it's, to me, it's the most important thing to me. It's, at least it, it, it, it, it solidifies for me how I hope I would think the world is, you know, is, is somebody, it's, I tell my team all the time. It's like building an army. But when I think about it, I always, I use my team as an example in Latvia. So the country of Latvia is like two million people in Latvia. This is the fastest growing brand in Latvia, bamboo, fastest growing brand. Rum doesn't even really exist there where the most expensive product, fastest growing brand, we're crushing it. But I know why? Because when I selected it, when we, we had an importer in the market, and that importer brand manager was, was this guy named Janis. And Janis loved the brand. And it's because of him. So he's just like me, got behind the brand and just went out and sold it. Now Janis is our, our regional director manages a whole bunch of countries. But I can point to people who've made the difference. And I, and this is why I always say, people, if you believe in something, you can do anything. You can believe, you can sell anything. And we try to build a team of people like this. I think that's, that's why you've been successful for sure. When you look back over your career, what were some of the most important lessons that you've learned as an entrepreneur? What are the things that you really stuck out with you? Oh, it's all these sayings. It's the, the, the lessons is, again, it's these sayings that I tell my team and hold true today. Don't, if you're, if you're waiting for somebody, you're always getting to be hating. Don't rely on anybody. You got to do it yourself. You got to do it yourself. Trust your God. Don't, if anybody's going to fuck it up, it's got to be you. It's got to be me. Try, you know, I learned, you know, in these interviews I've done with artists. And I love asking this question because it reinforces this idea. I always ask an artist what their most successful commercial song, biggest hit they've ever had. Did you think it was going to be successful? Every one of them said, no, I didn't like the song. We didn't want to put it out. No one like that we shouldn't have done it. We did it anyway. Guess what happened? It was a huge success. And what that teaches me is you got to try shit. You got to try stuff because a lot of times most time we overanalyze everything. We overthink about everything. So for me, it's, it's not one thing that's made as successful. It's lots of things, trying lots of things, not betting the farm at any one area because it's like, it's like that idea that everybody thinks I've got the thing that'll go viral. It never goes viral. You never know what's going to go viral, but you got to try a whole bunch of shit. Maybe something will work. You know, the concept of self-made. So, why is that concept so important to you? Because I think it's the reason I do these interviews is I hate hearing people's success stories. I hate it because that it sounds so easy. I like hearing about the shit that they went through to get there if they're honest about it. I think when I tell things like I lost my apartment and I stopped paying my mortgage and I got four closed down or I stopped paying my taxes to the IRS and they swept my bank account because I could I could put more money back in the business or all the horror stories. I think that's motivating for the the the young person in me who wants to start a business. It's not easy. And I think if you tell the not easy side, the hard side is more important than me telling about how great these fricking brands are. I want people to know no one believes in them because it's true. That's the normal that's the normal way businesses built. So, to me, that's the idea of self-made. I've been through shit, but I got there. And I think that's the motivating side. I think I mean, so you don't you don't really interview entrepreneurs, but I guess I guess like an artist would be an entrepreneur to a degree. But I was going to the question was really like, what are what? I mean, has anybody who you've interviewed traditional entrepreneur or an artist who's also an entrepreneur have any of them had an easy path at all? They all that's the beauty of it. They all have their stories. They all have, you know, whether it's psychological, whether it's a parent who just doesn't believe in you, whether I remember Steve Aoki telling me the story of his dad, you know, and my God, you know, it's tall. He had a tough time with this guy that like we all have this shit we've been through to get there. And I think those stories of the stories were telling because you got to fight through that stuff. And I think there's nuggets. I remember one, I don't even know who it is now, way in rude. And he said, Brett, you know, I just got my first department and I only have half the furniture out. I need, I said, why is this because I don't want to feel comfortable? I don't feel comfortable. I feel like I need to keep, you know, striving. I like that. Like that's, you know, it's so funny what people do to motivate themselves. Yeah. And for me, and this is why I jokingly say this is when I interview people, it's, it's for me. Yeah. It's motivated. I started this podcast. Yeah. It's motivating. I love hearing. I don't know, you know, like, I don't know Mark Cuban story. But I'm assuming there's hopefully some shit he went through to get there, you know, or maybe it was really easy. But hearing that guy get out of the stage and talk about Casper and how they raised billions of dollars, they wanted to sound like they've always been successful. Like I have no one I'm doing and I know how to get there. I want to hear the shit he went through because I can appreciate that. That's the fight. I want the fight side. I think the thing is everybody has gone through that at the end of the day. But that's the side they got to tell. Yeah. But that's the side they're scared to talk about. That's what that's a makes it human. That's that makes it a fun journey. I mean, no, I don't know a single. I mean, I've also introduced tons of entrepreneurs. I don't know a single one who I actually got the story out of. There's people that bullshit, but I don't know a single one who actually had an easy journey. And I think that when you tell stories like that, it's important because then for a younger generation of entrepreneurs, the expectations are real. And I just had a podcast earlier today about the mental health of entrepreneurs. What happened? I was actually super sad. There's a guy who had a 100 person company. And it was about the company was buying like a fixed-repper homes or whatever. And then interest rates went up. So he couldn't, he had to lay everyone off and he committed suicide. Yeah, I could, but I could because his whole identity was wrapped up in this company. And all of a sudden, he didn't have the company anymore, and he didn't have a network of people to talk to. He killed himself. I, I yep, 100% 100%. So it's just like having more real conversation. Like, little like the funny thing. Okay, mortgage, lose the, lose the apartment, not paying taxes. So you can put the money into the business. Like, these are all things that entrepreneurs have thought of or dealt with at some point. I just need to get this thing to work, right? And then everything will be okay. But it's just about surviving in this world long enough until the thing works. And I think for me, when I really think about it, and I'm trying too lately, I think for, if you ask me, Brad, why did you just stop? I think it's fear. It's fear. You look, I fear of looking bad, fear of, I failed, fear of it now working. Like just, or I joked my mom, who's 94 now, who's just, as I said, is my hero. She's fearless and clueless. And I think those are the same thing. And when you're younger, sometimes you're just, you know, you're, you're, you're a little both. You don't know any better. So for me, it was just pure fear. I have to make this work. Otherwise, what the hell am I going to do? Um, and it is scary. It is scary because your identity, your whole life is involved in this. Um, but I think that, you're right. I think that's the healthy side. Hearing about the crap side is a healthy side. The most healthy, because it, it shows it's not easy. It's not supposed to be easy. It's not supposed to happen fast. But does, you're lucky. Yeah, but you are lucky if it happens fast. It doesn't happen fast or 99.99% of people, right? Did you have people, like when you think, go back to when you lost your condo or mortgage or any of this shit that happened, did you have people around you or were you just like headstrong, figuring this shit out on your own? Because I find that also, if you have a little group of people that can help too. But well, I, I had my father saying your nuts, don't do this. I had my brother or was my oldest brother's an attorney saying, don't do this. You're not my helpful at all. No, but they're having helpful in their own way, meaning they're looking out for me. But it's my mother. My mother was there, you know, was she's always been, she's fearless. She, she, I can do anything. But you need people like this. My wife, you need people like this who were there for you in good times and bad times. And that's the other thing. I tell people all the time, you got to find one person, one person who, at least one who's going to be there for you in both of those experiences. Because you need people to pick you up. You need people to, to, to, to motivate you to, to get you through that day. That's just as important. I, I think that that is, that is a huge ex-factor in entrepreneurship. But I invited to have like Gina wasn't around when I get shit news or something bad happens or like she just pulls you out of it, helps you zone out. You just understand that that issue is not that big an issue. But if you don't have that person, you get, as especially as an entrepreneur, you get stuck in your own thoughts. And you, and it's very easy to spiral. But, but it's also, and I think about this, I have a big sales meeting coming up and, and I'm thinking about what I'm going to say to him. I was telling my wife and the car up here. My job is to motivate. My job is to be a cheerleader. That's any entrepreneur. You, because you know, you're an entrepreneur to me as somebody who's doing something that others wouldn't do or, or, or these brands shouldn't work or you're going against something. So you've got to convince, other people are going through the same crap you are at a different level. You've got to convince them. You've got to motivate them. You've got to appreciate them. Like that's, that's our job. Yeah, I love it. Um, so what's, what's the, what's next for you, man? What's, where's the future going with this? Patience. There kind of, there's no rush. We have our five brands, Bel Air, bamboo, uh, the own McQueen, our gin, the owner, our, it's in the Cognia category. And now, Deek it in, in whiskey. Um, I have more brands I want to do, but I'm not in a rush because I'm a big believer in that, uh, you, if, if each of these is successful, it's easier the next time. And it'll be easier the next time, um, uh, growing our business. I'm trying to convince the world that, uh, uh, brands like this can be global and it's working, um, where I want to be in all these countries because I believe if you're in New York today, drinking bamboo and you go to Miami tomorrow, you don't change brands. You want the same brand. If you go to Paris, the next day, you want the same brand. If you go to Kazakhstan, the next day, you want the same brand. So that's my goal is people have to do a better job with that because if I go somewhere else, I'd drink a lot of tequila. If I go somewhere else, I was in Europe last summer. I couldn't get tequila anywhere. Or you couldn't even get your brand. I definitely will get my brand. So that's why I believe in global, which it goes against, you know, what most people think, you know, stick big companies. I don't have a tequila. Uh, we'll do one. We'll do one. We'll do one. But I'm not again, this is where I, I made a decision a long time ago. I wanted all fast, but I know it's not the way it works. I'm very excited for, I'm not new, but different champagne. That's what I'm actually very excited for. It's not a huge fan of some of the household names that have been around for a long time. You got to try our beller. It's fantastic. Fantastic. But I love it. I love my brands. I love my team. I love what we're trying to build. You're a great, you're a great version of entrepreneurship. I love that. Because I see a lot of people that are trying to speed run through entrepreneurship and they burn out and they lose themselves. They lose their health and their wellness, mental physical. They lose their families. They lose their wives. You gotta, for me, it is, and I get I was there's no question. I was in the first five, six years, uh, a different person I am today, but it's because I accept it. I love what I'm doing and I'm perfectly fine doing it at whatever level. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Where do you see the industry going? It's a, it's a big question. I there's always going to be new trends. You know, we had a huge RTD trend, you know, not a low alcohol RTD's ready to drink. Everybody jumped in. There's a huge flushing this system, but that'll stay non alcoholic is becoming popular. Do you think that's going to keep up? Oh, I think it has a place. I think it has a place. I just, again, I think I'm just not a trend person. It doesn't matter to you. Yeah. I think I want to, I want to create our own trends. So I want to do our way. So I believe in that. But what the beauty of this business is they're, they're a brand, a great brand is a badge of honor. You wear it. And that's what I love about it is I appreciate brands. Whether they're mine or somebody else's, I appreciate brands. Yeah. What would be, uh, one thing that I didn't ask you about that would be good for upcoming entrepreneurs. I think, I think this is a good one, which I get asked, what's it like work with family? That's true. I love it. I actually love it. I think once we defined roles, so I work with my brother, actually I work with all my brothers now and my nephew. If you have defined roles, that's the key. Meaning everyone's got a responsibility, but the beauty of working with family is I know they're going to work just as hard as me. I know that they're going to, uh, they're going to, uh, do everything they can. I can trust them. I rely on them. And what we've also done, even though I, we can, it's, I guess it's a family company, we treat everybody the same. So, uh, all the employees I treat them the same, their family. We don't treat anybody different. Uh, I remember I used my brother Blake as the example. He's going to commit for saying this, but, uh, he's a salesman in Chicago. And I think he, all he had to do was sell three more cases to hit his true bonus. He could have just fucking bought the three cases in the market. He didn't do it. So he didn't get it. So we treat everybody the same, everybody the same. So funny. But I mean, you have to say, that's the thing about family businesses. So, I mean, if you don't set these boundaries, you have to send everybody a lot of emotions get involved in that business real quick. Yeah. But the thing you do have is you have trust. You have this explicit trust. This super beautiful and you've ever hired people that aren't in your family, which would be anybody who's hired most anybody. Trust is a big thing. And it's hard. It's hard. It takes time to build that trust and you're a family. Hopefully you have trust right out of the gate. To me, it's what I get from them is work ethic. Like I know they're going to work. They'll be days and weeks that I won't talk to my brother. Um, but it's not when we're very different, but it's not because we don't want to talk to each other is he's doing his thing. And when he has got something he wants to raise, and they'll call me and I'll do the same thing. And that's, that's the key. And if you can translate that to everybody in your company, it works beautifully amazing. Okay, where, where should people go connect with you? Check out your brands. You have an awesome YouTube channel too. Me, Brettbearer CEO on Instagram, we use our Instagram sites for everything, uh, official Bel Air, original bamboo, Deakin whiskey, McQueen, uh, uh, and the Violet Park gin, veal, cognac, uh, France. Um, by the way, I'll put all the links and, and show notes too. And if you do, I think on your Instagram, you have the handles of all the brands as well. And, and to buy them, I mean, I saw that you can actually order them online. I'm online in the S, um, direct on our, you just go through the Instagram pages and you'll want to check any of these out. But if you can also pick them up, I'm assuming wherever you buy liquor. Yeah. Okay. Any liquor stores, any bars and restaurants, and if they don't have it, ask for it. Yeah. Exactly. That's the secret. You have to ask for it. Even if you know they don't. Good. Last thing, you know, you had an incredible career, different seasons to your career as well. If you go back and you tell, you want to tell your 20 year old self one thing, what would that thing be? Don't rely on anybody. You can't, you got to do everything yourself. You got to assume that it's the biggest mistake I've ever made because it always happens. And if I'm waiting for somebody to, to, to make something happen, I'll always be waiting. If they come through fantastic, but don't wait. And I think, I think that, and the other one that people make mistakes all the time is if you, you're just setting yourself up to fail, if you ask somebody their opinion, what do you think of this? What do they get this idea? What do you think? You're just opening yourself up. And the key is sometimes you just, you can't ask. You just got to go do it. Just go do it. Or be prepared, be prepared. I mean, they're going to say something negative, but maybe they'll teach you something little, it's something that you hadn't thought of. I would have thought that they're just like empty platitudes and they would have just said something positive just to, I guess it depends who you ask. Yeah. But you, I think, you know, it's, hey, still go back to, don't rely on anybody. It's not a defensive thing. It just, it helps you. It helps you realize, I got to go make this shit happen myself. I got to go make it happen. I have to make it happen. That's the key.