Anne Mahlum - Entrepreneur and Keynote Speaker | Turning $175k Into $88 Million

76% of people at the end of their lives have regret not because of what they said not because of what they did But because of what they didn't do and mollum isn't your typical entrepreneur She's a woman who turned her passion for running into a lifeline for those experiencing homelessness Founding back on my feet a nonprofit that proves running can rebuild lives If I'm going to be coaching 20 classes a week I am telling my team that my value to this company is worth 60 bucks an hour That can't be the job of a CEO In 2013 she took on a whole new challenge revolutionizing fitness with solid core A boutique workout brand that became one of the fastest growing fitness companies in the US During my 20s I was just desperate to figure out how I become special Like how do I find fulfillment? How do I find purpose? So that's when I ended up starting this nonprofit for the homeless Americans love underdog stories We love rooting for the guy that we think doesn't have a chance And so I started to realize all of these things in this story And figure out a way to capitalize on all of them to raise money for an organization If you're a founder every six months you have to be looking at how you're spending your time If it's the same as it was six months ago you're in trouble from a scaling perspective Can't have personal growth without endings Everybody just thinks once I'm confident then I'll do it Only way you'll ever get confident is by doing By the time she exited in 2023 she'd built a fitness empire with over 100 locations And sold her shares for an impressive $88 million This is Ann Mollum and this is her story Welcome to success story I'm your host, Scott Claire The success story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network They have great podcasts but they also have great tools for entrepreneurs That's why I've worked with them for over three years now I want you to picture this for a second You're at a party and someone asks you what you do as a marketer And this is a lesson for marketers and even people that don't classify as marketers Because at the end of the day everybody has to figure out how to talk about the product to grow their business Whether or not you're formally trained or you're a solo printer you have to market Now marketers have a tough job because it's really hard to describe what a marketer is Because if you think about what a day in the life of a marketer is you have to generate leads You have to score them, you have to contact them, you have to create content, you have to gather data And tomorrow you have to do it all over again and then you have to wonder if it's even working Marketers are spread way too thin Anybody that does marketing is spread way too thin Now HubSpot has a collection of AI tools called Breeze to help marketers They have features like content remix, return one piece of content into all these different assets You can also pinpoint the best products with predictive lead scoring So you can know who's actually going to buy your product or service You can level up your campaigns with KPIs and analytics So your day to day as a marketer becomes less busy work and more driving revenue through the roof So remember everybody at the end of the day has to be a marketer And more importantly you'll have a way easier time describing what you do at parties If you want help marketing your product or service if you want to grow your business Is at HubSpot.com slash marketers to learn more Hi, how's it going? It's going great. I'm excited we finally got to do this. Me too, months in the making. Months in the making and I mean, this has been a huge journey even for the show Because I've been trying to get the studio set up and everything's actually really free to e-page And my fuzzer. I want people to get to know a little bit about you obviously If they go you're going to see solid core they're going to see a great company that he built A lot of people know that company very well But let's back up just a tiny bit very briefly Talk to me about a major inflection point A major moment when you were growing up It sort of put you on the path to where you are today Something that sort of shaped who you are I think what shaped me the most is my parents relationship like everybody else You know, and I thought my parents had a decent relationship And I had my life figured out pretty early It's funny. I actually thought I had my whole life figured out by the time I was 12 years old I had this box underneath my bed like and I put things in it about what my life was going to look like when I got big So there was this tall dark handsome guy who's going to be my husband This big white picket or big white house with picket fence Two kids kid you know all of these things and frankly up until 12 years old Life was pretty easy. I was good at sports the school was easy and whatever So I kind of thought this life thing was going to be figured out And then when I was 16 my dad My dad came in from work early and asked if me and my younger brother and her sister could leave for a bit so he could talk to her mom And we all knew something was wrong that wasn't normal we never had to leave the house And that was the day my dad told my mom that he had a pretty severe gambling problem And as most addictions do they don't surface until there's a crisis And my dad owed a lot of people a lot of money and like it was it was time to pay It was like out of a mafia and it was like you know like what like what This is serious it was serious you know and and my mom's a public school teacher my dad really never got a knack for working So we didn't have a ton of money like my mom had to really be diligent about saving and putting money away for us to take a vacation every three years for our college education So when my dad violated all of that you know it's like she worked years to try to set us up That was it for her my dad struggled with drugs and alcohol when I was really young I've never seen him drink or do drugs what my mom did And so when the money thing happened it was like that's it I'm done she asked my dad believe that day and as a kid who never really saw her parents have any issues or didn't have any warning that her family and it was about to be torn apart I was really pissed I was like really angry at my mom for taking my dad away and I didn't get addiction I just thought why don't you quit gambling and we can go back to being a family So those teenagers were tough but also full of resilience for me and I remember feeling like I'm not going to be a statistic I'm going to go have an incredible life I'm going to be a really weirdly Scott like ever since I can remember I did always tell myself that I'm going to be somebody someday that like I'm capable of big things helping people making impact you know being successful like I really felt that way about myself I've never seen a kid and after this happened with my parents I also remember telling myself and my mom that like at some point I'm going to be a millionaire like money is not going to ruin my life my relationship like I'm just going to have enough of it where it doesn't ever cause any problems That's a tough childhood to go through but I mean I think that when you it's not it's not like you went through rock bottom as a kid you still had a loving family but I mean you still had a lot of difficult times and I think that that almost like when you go through those very difficult to multiple times or when money is an issue It sets you up with this really powerful North Star that you actually end up chasing your whole life because you just don't want to ever have to deal with that that you saw in your own family and as you sort of like went through your career and your life Obviously you have this sort of fire to be successful so the money's never an issue how does that actually manifest in what you do as you start to go out to the world you start to work start to figure out what you want to do for a living. Yeah it was interesting because even more so than money I wanted to feel special. You know I was like the sibling growing up where I outworked and outperformed my brother and sister like I was varsity sports pretty much three days and I'm like how come my parents don't love me more than they love my brother and sister you know you sort of get like I'm achieving more like I should get more praise and my parents just never did that. And so again weirdly enough that you sometimes don't know where all these things come from but I was like oh I'm going to go get that in the outside world so I was sort of chasing this admiration adoration from a stranger's outside people to give me validation that I was special you know like when we're young I think a lot of people misinterpret that sort of public affection and affinity for love and that's what I was chasing because I didn't really know the difference back then. And so during my 20s I was just desperate to figure out how I've become special like what is my how do I find fulfillment how do I find purpose how do I make my life meaningful and so that's when I ended up starting this nonprofit for the homeless. I'm less used guys were outside of a shelter and I was running by them and realized like why don't I just run with them ended up building this really big nonprofit at scale across the country that used running as a vehicle to help people change the way that they saw themselves and realizing that the only reason I was actually attracted and interested in these guys was because they reminded me of my dad who more than likely would have ended up in a homeless shelter. But it wasn't for marrying my mom and having that support system there and so realizing you can take your pain right your pain and your fuel of I never figured out a way to help my dad. I could never understand addiction back then but running is what got me through that. And if I can then use running to help these guys who are dealing with addiction your life starts to make a little bit of sense and I kind of felt like my pain was now turned into purpose. And so I did that you know for for six and a half years and like did you still feel now you're serving this this this population this group of people that everyone else is forgotten about. Did you feel did you feel like that was actually sort of scratching that itch of you being special you having purpose you receive being like I don't know love from the universe or whatever it is it did well one I got a lot of attention from from doing that on on media public scale like I was a scene in hero I was NBC's person of the week so I was getting a lot of accolades for this thing. And it all it just everything about it worked because I felt like I was the perfect person to do it because of my dad's addiction issues and my love of running. And I didn't know that I had a knack for business or scaling or systems or process like I didn't really know that then. Turn turned out like I was pretty decent at that and put those things in place to be able to scale that thing across the country. So I was hitting all of these buckets that were really filling the up I got to help people I felt like I was healing myself turning my pain into something positive. I was getting to build something which I really really turned out I enjoyed like taking something from an idea and turning it into an actual real life thing and then making it bigger was really really exciting to me to figure out how to do that so I was super happy there for six and a half years. Looking back, do you feel like that motivation of because everybody has different motivations for why they build things or why they take on these huge challenges is not easy should need something outside of I do believe you need something outside of just money to make it this stuff work. But you say of course, but you know that many people do not. But no, no, I actually don't I think money I think money follows Scott I think the most successful people like I remember I had this massive job opportunity at Comcast the day I was supposed to go in and like start my job and I had just started back on my feet. And I remember like I was it was a six figure job like as a 20 some year old 20 years ago like I was a lot of money stock options at Comcast like it was a big deal and I remember having to take a bunch of these politicians and people out to a baseball game. And like converse and talk with them and I'm like I'm so I'm so bored but I can't I can't do this right so back on my feet. I loved hanging out with those guys I loved running with them I love seeing them step into their potential and I always felt like my dad never got that shot he had two alcoholic parents. They still don't know if my dad's dad ended up committing suicide or accidentally shooting himself like he had a really really horrible upbringing and I very well know that when people don't have the circumstances as kids and as children to be influenced in the right way. It wasn't surprising to me that these guys ended up in homeless shelters right they didn't have the support systems you're growing up in poverty you're growing up in your surroundings that don't present a lot of options. So the fact that like I could help these guys change their identity into somebody who saw themselves as homeless and an addict into somebody who gets to be a runner a teammate disciplined hard working and that it taught me the power of belief systems because don't forget when I was young I told myself I'm going to be somebody. And if I if I told myself i'm not going to be somebody my parents are divorced you know blah blah blah lean into that narrative that's how your life goes. And it just reinforced to me the power of what can change for you when you start to believe something different about who you are and what you're capable of. And you never get tired of watching someone step into that potential like it was exhilarating to see these guys go from never running a mile to running a marathon to getting a job at Marriott to moving out into their own place it was like change is possible in the right environment that was really cool for me. You know it's interesting though because what you just said was when you went into it you wanted to feel like special yourself but somewhere along that journey your purpose shifted from like me feeling special to the mission is now. Getting that person to change and to be better so there was like this shift and I don't know if you. Even understand like when that was in that journey but you stopped caring about yourself and you stop caring about your own notoriety and fame and whatever that was. And then all of a sudden that energy was put towards someone else's transformation totally and and when you realize oh my gosh helping people action makes you feel so good right doesn't have to be just like oh I I I I hate it but this person's helping like it all needs to be harmonious you that mentioned really about the podcast your podcasts are great when like you're having a good time and i'm having a good time. And back on my feet works when i'm like loving helping and creating an environment for these guys to make change for them like for themselves and and they wanted to make the change so we were all like. Like celebrating and moving forward and being healed together like it just was so symbiotic I love that and but you know this is the thing that I've noticed about nonprofits I actually think that you're. You are not the normal nonprofit or or it's nonprofit or I don't think you're the normal nonprofit founder or nonprofit executive because I obviously look at what you went on to build. But for some reason nonprofits don't usually operate that efficiently and they don't usually they they try for change but they're the people that are attracted to them and work for them they're not the best operators in the business and I think that's a huge missed opportunity and I'm curious why you were able to to build this so successfully and obviously just have a mind for it and a brain for it but. Like what were the things that that you did in this in this particular company that you see a lot of people lack in the nonprofit space i mean so a few things like I love the saying play a game that you can win right like every but every one of us so got you have certain skill sets and so do why and we have things that we're not good at and whatever. I was really good at figuring out what am I really good at and how does that serve the mission of this organization and then you asked the question well who's going to care about these guys who cares if they're homeless or not it's a really difficult issue. Difficult issue to get people to get behind right there's a lot easier nonprofits and causes babies kids kids with cancer animals you know why would you want to help a bunch of 1450 year old men who a lot of people things screwed up their own life right like they're living in homeless shelters get a job get your life together. And so the way we raised money was I'm like I have to find the runners I need to find people who understand what this sport. Has done for themselves and knowing how much they respect themselves when they're out there at six in the morning running and you define the executives who are runners because they have the money. And so I found in roads we had this big article on runners were all that's selling my favorite articles ever written about back on my feet. And Larry Solomon who was the CEO of Accenture read that article lived in Philly shot me in notes saying this is really cool rooting for you and i'm like please say we can get coffee you know and Larry was my meal ticket to all these executives i'm like. Introduce me to the runners you're not running the runners and then it just snowballed from there so I got I built events I created running events and I created breakfasts and. I would get you out running with our members which i'm like if I can just get you to meet these guys Darren James Joe I mean so many of them you're going to fall in love with them it is the ultimate underdog story and there's nobody like Americans love underdog stories we love rooting for the guy that we think doesn't have a chance. And so I started to realize all of these things in the story and figure out a way to capitalize on all them to raise money for organizations so simple but so smart I think a lot of like nonprofits if. If you want to give back and you're in that space and these are good examples to learn from because I do think that sometimes. People have a hard time scaling those types of organizations and attracting the right talent and finding ways to raise money so I mean you just nailed it what were some of the what were some of the things that you actually took. And you brought into solid core from a nonprofit environment yeah so the thing about scaling is you look at the ecosystem that works and then you have to say how do I replicate the ecosystem. So give you example with the solid core studio and the back of my feet running team so when when the chapters were forming with back on my feet when we had one we had one group running right and then it's like okay how do we go to two. The logistics start to enter and it's like well let's have everybody meet together it's like that's not going to work for very long because how do we get more homeless shelters. To be a part of the program when they're spread across the city and now we've got to pick people up at four like it's never going to work we actually need to replicate the shelter so we had teams so we would have. Call it six teams and filly let's say you wanted to volunteer Scott you would get placed on a team and you would go to that homeless shelter. In the morning and then there'd be five other teams that would go to other homeless shelters volunteers and we would all be running at the same time not together right so like okay cool that can continue to replicate. And then you would take that model into another city and say okay we need a local executive director and we need local staff and local funding your building systems all the time systems systems processes so for a solid core studio same thing what do you need to make a solid core studio work. You need a leader of the studio you need coaches you need consistency and so like great place to ecosystem awesome what about the next one the next one it was easy to do that when. In DC when there was like everybody was there and then it was time to go to another city well how are you going to keep the brand consistent so it was very evident that the training. Training for the coaches had to stay corporate like we would send our people you know from corporate down there. Get bought into the brand understand the ethos everything and that director of training I spent a ton of time with her name was Joe Gomez and like we had to be on the same page about this culture. About how we do things what's rewarded why we say people's names in class and so again it says replicate replication of what makes this special and over just like over and over again so everything that you learn to do in the nonprofit world that is like directly applicable like building these systems processes keeping like understanding. What has to be corporate versus decisions that can be made on the ground i love it well let me give you another quick example of that because it will help people Scott like for me I also. If you're a founder right every six months you have to be looking at how you're spending your time and if it's the same as it was six months ago you're in trouble from a scaling perspective. And so when I first started talking I was coaching all the time right because I had one studio that made sense well when I have five right a coaching a class was costing me call it back then 60 70 bucks per coach. If i'm going to be coaching 20 classes a week i am telling my team that my value to this company is worth 60 bucks an hour that can't be the job of a CEO. So I started to figure out what's the best way for me to make the most financial impact for the business based on my skill sets and that was negotiation with the landlords right. How do I get the best deal on this 10 year lease that i'm going to sign how do I get ten and improvement dollars and how do I get rent debatement because those were two things that were going to affect my cash low a lot. So I would meet in person with every landlord I would make you like me I would get you to root for me I would explain why I need this rent debatement and ask what's important to you for this deal and if I couldn't do the deal I would say listen those economics don't work for me here's why. But I would build relationships with anybody where the financial impact to the company was massive that's the best use of my time and then it would just continue to elevate so. What was the what was the so yes a thousand percent and hindsight looking back as 2020 and that makes perfect sense now when you when you what was the thing that happened to you in in your life that made you realize that you have to step out of like the day to day. What was the story that that forced you or the thing that was breaking or the shit hitting the fan moment or the I can't scale anymore i'm working a hundred hours a week. I think it was at back on my feet when I was continuing to run with all the groups and so running so running you know like those runs take place at five thirty of the morning and like I'm trying to be at all the social events and do everything else and at some point I'm like I just can't do this do this all so I have to figure out. Who what can I replicate and then go back to solid core the coaches I can replicate right if i'm the only one that can coach a solid core class that's a problem I can't scale that I didn't think that was true right I knew we could coach coaches and coach trainers right but what is the thing that and now I can do that that nobody else can do and it is i'm very convincing and I'm a great negotiator so i'm going to spend my time doing those things there really was not like the. A shit a shit hits the fan moment but there was moments when I was micromanaging right when I was like trying to be involved in everything and then you get feedback from your staff on like how much of a pain in the ass you are. And it comes across that you don't trust them when really you care so much and you want to be involved in everything but if you want to you can't have both you can't want to be involved in everything and want to scale something really big. So you have to do your best to train people to talk about culture talk about decision making and another great tool I learned from a back on my feet board member was this thing called yellow or sorry red yellow and green. And it's how they trained their staff at Accenture so they would create a things like if you were a manager at a solo course studio Scott we would say here's your red yellow and green the things in the red you don't have authority to make decisions on right like you can't change the pricing for the studio you can't do this and this and this. Here are the things that are in the green that not just you have agency to do but like we need you to feel comfortable doing that. Oh right you need to manage the schedule you need to drive the revenue here's your budget here's your goals you need to be able to like manage this and not come to us at the end of the month and say like well we didn't meet our numbers like that's not going to fly. So I found that it actually makes the relationship between the manager and the one that they're managing a lot better when expectations are clear. You understand the sandboxer playing and you understand the agency that you have to make decisions and you understand why you can't make decisions not just because I said so but I explain them to you like why we can't have different pricing at this studio versus studio four blocks down the road that makes a ton of sense. So when when you build out systems processes when you let the team have ownership over certain things I love that framework who never heard that framework before I know like for example for personal prioritization have like an urgent important or like an eyes and hour where you know your task then you basically take that and you deploy it across your whole team so you know they know exactly what they should be focusing on. That's step one so step one in scaling is this is processes plus giving the ownership over certain tasks what are some other what are some other points in a company's growth that break the company so outside of starting to again allow individual like solid core studios to have their own management and you have the whole sort of organizational chain what are some other things that can break the company as it grows. Yeah, I think what can break the company lot is the founder not understanding what their skill sets are and wanting to always just be in charge and lead things there is a reason why I promoted Brian Myers when we had 70 some studios I'm not a great CEO of a bigger company I don't like things that are monolithic. I like to move quickly and I like to make decisions quickly and swiftly and I don't want to go through a whole approval process I don't like I have a hard time kind of like democratizing things to be honest like I'm not a really great manager of people I can work with high level people but I don't like managing a lot of people. And so I think when the founder doesn't realize that their skill sets may or may not line up with the needs of the business anymore and they're too attached to it that they just continue to hang on even though that they're not the right person to do it so Brian who's the currency of solid core is such a better operator than I am he he is way better with like playing in the systems and processes once they've been built and like he won't make decisions quickly. You know he'll get buy in from folks and like sure things will take longer but that's Brian's leadership style and he's okay with that where I'm like you know a child throwing a tantrum and I'm like how come this can't be done tomorrow you know like that's the start of the energy that a founder mode right right. But it does take a different kind of person it does I think that that self awareness is a superpower as a founder because I've seen founders try and ride our companies to IPO and I don't think that's I mean it can be done but I think there's much more efficient ways to do it and Scott like most of us. Think about when things end and things get really messy for most things in our life and I after leaving back on my feet like I did a good job of putting a board in place and like but I didn't succession plan there wasn't like some way to like go through the executive search find someone whatever I wasn't. Rooming somebody and I'm like i'm not going to make that mistake again and I wanted my exit at solid core to be joyous to be self aware to be on my terms and to be celebratory and like super happy I didn't want to ever be forced out I didn't ever want to feel like I fucking hate this place I can't wait to leave. I didn't want to work for somebody else and I was really mindful of that the entire journey which is why I promoted Brian two years before we sold so that I didn't get stuck with an earnout I didn't get stuck with private equity saying okay we'll buy the company but hands got to stay for the next two years which happens all the time and like I just didn't want to do that. And so I wanted a happy ending and so every decision that I made as we started to be I'm like this thing will sell we are scaling like we're raising private equity like we will have an exit someday and I made sure it was a happy ending instead of one that was like. Good because I think I mean this is this is because you were like a second time founder that's why you had the foresight I don't think many founders the first time they built something think that far out I actually did just a thought and then I'll let you like I know you have a comment on it but one thing that I think you've done very well is you in your life in your business everything you do is with the end in mind. And I'm noticing that now more and more because even before we press record I'm like what do you want to chat about and you're like well let's figure out you know let's talk about how much money people actually need to make to be happy and what's the what's the end goal if you're trying to build a business and sell it and you're talking about you what's like the next season of my life after making money and after exiting and you're doing things so purposefully but I think that a lot of people just they kind of just do and then when the event happens or the exit happens. First of all they probably didn't plan for it the way that you plan for it so all those messy things that happen with private equity or happening to them or all those messy things happen with the acquisition but also then after they have no plan either and they don't know what to do next and they just feel lost and and sort of aimless but I've noticed that you you build or you do very purposefully yeah I was tell people like we're work backwards from what the goal is and you need to like be prepared. For the clothes of that chapter and once you rather be the one turning the page then the person someone else turned the page for you and I think a lot of times with with founders it's like you don't know where the founder ends and the company begins right and that's really dangerous for the company and a lot of times our ego starts to set in and don't get me wrong when I left back on my feet I'm like pack him if he's not going to work without me you know I'm I'm the lifeblood of this thing and one of my board members was like and you better hope this thing works without you it's not going to work without you. It's actually bad for your reputation because it shows that it was more about you than the company and like oh my god like that's such incredible and I never forgot that in building solid core I was never the face of the marketing campaigns I again got out of the studios early from the coaching perspective because worst case scenario people only want to take and class I can't scale that you know so I think again I really really value personal growth Scott and you can't have personal growth without endings and we are so afraid a lot of people whenever I public speak people are like okay how many people in the audience want to grow everybody's hands go up but what growth is is uncertainty change attention and struggle so whenever we start to feel like we're growing we let I want to do that you know like we just usually hang on and we play in this sandbox we were talking about it before we started recording we play in the sandbox that we're comfortable in because it's what we know but if you really want to challenge yourself to have multiple chapters and have multiple experiences in your life the only way to do that is to let something go and have an ending to what you're currently doing whether it's a relationship a job an identity a belief system a habit how you spend your days like those things have to really have changed otherwise think since and so when you look at your life you segmented into seasons and chapters and that that's how you that's how you go through life now you don't find that enough people do that I think most people 76% of people at the end of their life have regret not because of what they said not because of what they did but because of what they didn't do most of us Scott play it safe even founders because we do it once and we stay too long because we don't know what to do next and we don't we know what to do next so we're just going to stay here and it's going so well and we have the notoriety and we have the accolades and all these things and trust me as as if like when I was getting ready to lead back on my feet all of those fears and doubts flooded me and it was like oh my god like if I'm no longer like I was the coolest girl at the cocktail party let me tell you about my friend Anne like you have to hear about her life story and starting this and running with the homeless like it's a cool story I mean I was getting national media I was I was getting awards at Celtics games that feel I mean it was like any honor that anybody could give it was like give it to Anne and so there is this moment that's like are people going to think I'm special anymore if I don't do this your debut so rocked out into the league and what if what if I can't build something else like am I just a one-hit wonder like what if I got lucky all of these doubts come in and so then that became the drive of like no I am smart enough I can figure this out when there was a moment Scott when I was building solid core and I didn't open the studio yet I hadn't opened and I was nervous because all my money was going in and if you remember back in 2013 I mean people who didn't live in DC well but boutique fitness there was no there was no soul cycle there was no orange theory there was nothing and so anybody that I would talk to about exactly be like wait what is it and like I don't under like it's the only like so that's the only workout you're gonna offer like what if people don't like it and I I was like you don't get it like you don't get it and I it was like the same with back on my feet when like people didn't get how I was going to build that into a nonprofit it's like you're just running with guys who are homeless like how do you build this into something and so you might it's very blue ocean it's very blue ocean yeah and that's scary it is scary you can't even look for a reference point in the market saying like this is how it's already been done so I can just copy that and be okay but I have also learned because I'm not the smartest person in the room I get a big benefit by finding things that like haven't been created yet no one had built an organization helping the homeless through running that alone was like people would be like wait what I have to know more so I used that to raise money solid core like no one had ever done a workout like that before so I continued to maximize and optimize off the fact that my my marketing pitch for the first several years was the hardest workout you've never done and people were like I've done all the workouts I'm like you haven't done this and so anyway and then I got offered 75k before I opened my first studio for 30% of my business it has a lot of money to be back then and it was also someone believing in me and I'm like oh that would be really smart maybe I should actually take take that money and as soon as those words came out of my mouth I was like if I take that money all I'm going to do is say thank you very much now I'm doubting myself now I'm hedging my bets if this thing starts to get hard well I can lean into this 75k and at least I didn't use all my money you know you start to justify this decision and that that was a good decision instead of being all in and forced to be forced to figure it out when you started to think about selling and exiting solid core um what was that process so obviously now you've proven that you can do this again but the difference is the difference is the first time you had to build something money was a big uh the second time sorry you had to build something money was still a big motivator yeah if this exit goes to plan and at this point you know your years into solid core and and you you understand you understand like the potential multiples you get off the exits you understand that money is not going to be an issue anymore is that mess with your uh uh fence of self worth and identity because now you're like listen whatever I do next I don't really need the money so I don't really need to be an entrepreneur anymore so then what am I what a great question so for the money piece I I took money off the table and every round I raised smart not everybody does and the reason I'll tell you that smart and Sam and I actually said part I have a conversation about this he didn't do that and so when his exit came he was salivating for 20 million dollars you know and I had taken six in the first round and nine in the second so I was only going to sell and so I had gotten used to having money you know what I mean it wasn't like going to be like I've been starving my entire life and putting every ounce and dollar into here you know so any amount of money is going to be you know amazing and worth it and more than I've ever thought it before so when the big exit came um I got to call the terms and I didn't I mean I I negotiated another 10 million dollars beyond my equity value simply because I could and saying this was always my number I'm not taking less if that doesn't work for you we don't have to do this deal don't have to sell that's policy those still because at this point what you're only like uh so like like 15 15 million versus like the potential almost seven uh I'm sorry almost eight figure uh exit that you put out yeah but I still believe in the business so I was never like we're almost nine figure bagging and all those nine figures sorry it's okay but I still believe like I knew the future of solid core was going to be what it is and they just had another transaction so I never had doubts of oh my god I like I know something that these guys don't know when I have to sell and get this money I was like I'm happy to do this deal today if you can get me to this number if not we don't have to do it and we'll just go back to market in a year and I'll and I'll sell then since I was the controlling owner of the business and because everybody else believed in the future of the business and saw what it was becoming and could be they agreed to agreed to the terms and so yes after the exit um listen I've had a really interesting year and a half post exit like figuring out my money relationship figuring out now that there's not quote unquote more money coming you know what I mean it's like okay what's expensive versus what I used to think was expensive and I've actually spent money Scott just to spend it and see how it feels because if I didn't do that I would continue to play small and what I mean by that is if you have x amount of money and it's public right I mean close to a hundred million dollars you know on this on this exit and I remember um the mosquito system we're putting in our backyard at our new house and it was like 10 grand and I'm like 10 grand for a mosquito system like who does that who spends that and I'm like I have to spend this money because if I don't flex my muscle on spending it I'm what's the point of having it you know so you have to raise the bar on what you'll pay for and I'm like yeah you know what but spending 10 grand to never have mosquitoes in our backyard that we're going to be in all the time I'd probably pay 25 grand for that you know what I mean but it does redefine your relationship with money a lot and and not everybody's good at managing that and and some people there's like sort of two ends to this background right some people money was never the objective anyways kind of like yourself money was nice but it was never the objective so they dive right back into work some people they get a payout they just spend like crazy they destroy their whole life to spending as well I think I'm more healthy a more healthy version of post exit is you have money you develop a healthy relationship with it you figure out what your new sort of benchmark is for spending so you're comfortable spending on nice things but also you find purpose that is outside of money because and it doesn't just become your next identity which is just spending which is a horrible identity that yeah so I got comfortable with money through spreadsheets right like I put all my money in there what we spend on a monthly basis how much my money is making on average conservatively and like then you're like okay great I don't need to worry about money anymore and like worry about not having enough and chasing more because I put the data in front of me and as long as I continue to live and do this like everything is is fine because as you know Scott when you step in and having money a lot of people's I'd self identity or sorry self words gets gets connected to their networks and it's like well now I have this now I need more now I need more I just want to take a second to thank the house by podcast network for supporting today's episode now if you like success story they're going to love other shows in the network one of my favorites is the hustle daily show hosted by Juliet Bennett Ryla Rob Litterist Ben Berkeley and Mark Dent it's brought to you by the house by podcast network which is really the audio destination for business professionals now the hustle daily show brings you a healthy dose of this a reverent off beaten formative takes on business and tech I was just listening to an episode to give you an example of what they talk about so they broke down how this hundred year old organization has created one of the most successful business models in the world not only does this organization teach young entrepreneurship they generate over a billion dollars in annual cookie sales and what I really love about the show is they take these stories and these businesses that we think we know and then they reveal the surprising angles that we never considered so I really think that you should go listen to the hustle daily show wherever you get your podcasts it's one of my favorites you're not gonna regret it and it's so wild to me that people get scared about losing it it with hundreds of millions of dollars I have friends who've sold for more than a hundred million and and and the first thought when they get the wires oh my god how do I not focus up right which is insane like you could you could you could put it into into a pretty relatively low risk investment and be earning 4% annually and I mean like that's more than most people ever spent totally and those come from again belief systems probably from or something happened where their parents lost all their money where it's like the one day everything was gone it's like this could happen you know to me but that's why you have to have this money practice every day and like I think one of the greatest books ever written was you're a badass at making money by Jen Sincere I don't know this book you have to she's really good because she didn't have money she's manifesting money for real she makes people write letters to money and like she's like dear money I like I love you so much but you never come around like it's really clever and it's all around getting you into the state of abundance and I was talking to a friend before I got here and I was saying my my mom's a public school teacher she's she's actually sitting in a place she retired when she was 55 and now she's 70 you know I won't tell him what my mom has but like she had to work so hard for that money Scott and it took her so long to make it so how do you think she treats it she she suffocates because it took years and decades to have this much my mom will die with that money in her account because she feels like it's irresponsible to spend it because of how hard she had to work for it and so now that I you know and try worked hard for Salah Court right there are a lot of people they work a lot harder than I did don't get don't get me wrong I feel like I work smart but now when I can sit here on a daily basis and I see what my money is making and I don't know I no longer have to work for money that money works for me I give money away all the time I share it I always pick up obviously they did like that's small potatoes but like I am constantly in a state of abundance and I'm constantly spending it because I think if you stop spending it within my realm of my budget that I know I need to live in then you get caught back up in the game of oh let me just see if I get this number higher I'm just gonna try to get this such an interesting perspective yeah if I'm like I haven't spent money recently I need to go either I all donate something I'll give it away or I'll go buy something I'll take my friends on a trip well because okay so I think this is interesting like the the conversation about money is always taboo and people feel very uncomfortable speaking about it that's actually why I mean what what sanded with money wise was so cool because the unpacks what you spend on and I think a lot of people are very apprehensive about that and I don't really know after you've made some why you're still apprehensive but I think it's just because not many people come from money most people in our circle they make it themselves right but a lot of people's relationship with money is very unhealthy and and even after they get it I mean the amount of money required to live your dream life most people's dream life take any vacation they want have a private chef do whatever get a twenty ten thousand dollar mosquito system it actually doesn't take that much money so once you have any sort of exit event um money becomes more of a game and and and a way to keep score than anything but that's that's still something that people get caught up into like I am not I'm very pro capitalist I'm not anti billionaire by any means but I think that people who are billionaires more often not have a little bit wrong with them that they keep playing this game like they keep playing this game again and again and again and again and again and good for them because they create some incredible things that can change humanity but there is no need for one person to ever keep playing that game that long it doesn't benefit them tangibly anymore to own another sports team it's not that there's an issue with it but I think that personally that is not what most people actually aspire to achieve most people just want to spend I don't know what the number is a hundred thousand dollars a month be more than most people can think about yeah I think that's what because again you get caught up in the game right so again and it's like for entrepreneur that money is a trophy right like when I got that exit it was like I did a really good job you know that's all it was for me is like I built something of such incredible value that I have people at the table willing to pay me x amount of multiple for it and that feels really cool and really good and I think that's why people go to do it again because we want the validation and feeling smart and whatever and then again there are some people who get caught up in oh my god I'm never going to have enough if and if you don't have an end game in anything it's always going to be more the answers I always need more so you're going to chase that and then your self-worth gets tied up in your in your network right if that number is not going up you're irresponsible you're doing something wrong I mean I talk about this a little bit but I've read that book died with zero yeah right so I think that's such an amazing thing and when people ask me what I'm doing right now but I move my body for four to six hours every day right my priority right now is optimizing my very healthy body playing beach volleyball playing paddle or pedal however is listening to it and working out for nine minutes a day at the gym I love it I love being physically exhausted at the end of the day and people are like do you ever work I'm like one I don't need two and two if you don't think that's work why don't you go spend four to six hours a day like moving your body like that but I am in that optimization phase of experience and physical health and moving my body and playing and having fun like I love that though you know how many people they they they sell a company and then they go right into okay now I'm an investor and then you've applied a label to yourself and you're like now I've had a figure how to be good at investing and they like they didn't even take a break it's like they just went and by the way just because you sell a car you build a company sell a company is not me your investor like trust also Scott like I'm like okay if I if I want to do that and I want to do this then I'm back to sitting in front of a computer and on the phone all day like I don't want that for my life like I want to have this phase right now where I can go at two in the clock in the afternoon and go pay for that and go go do go play card game go fly to North Dakota take a private flight fly to North Dakota watch my nephew play football you know go spend three days with them and fly home like that's the phase I am right now is spontaneity experiences and as much physical activity as I possibly can was it difficult to change your identity from entrepreneur founder to this this stage of your life this season of your life and sort of two-pronged question was it difficult and I think the answer I think I know what you're going to say but also how did the rest of the world perceive yeah so I think everybody I mean it wasn't the ink was barely dry and it's like what's next you know and people say things like oh you know you're never going to let grass grow underneath your feet and they always associate that with like money working you know like it's like oh so you're just playing whatever I'm like yeah I'm playing a lot of sports and activity and family office yet like yeah you know I'm like my friend is like and that one PE I'm like no I don't want to do any of that and and Scott I do do some investing but like only if I'm like super excited about it's not part of my you know identity I don't think like one thing I really like about myself is you could go talk to any private equity partner and any guy that I've ever met in one of the homeless shelters and be like tell me who Ann is and they'd be like she's funny she's playful she's cracking jokes she's competitive she's whatever like that's who I who I am and I think the adjectives that describe me as a person is much more important to me than like my label as a of a profession you know and that's the phase that I'm in because for a long time I was really focused on achievement because I associated achievement with love and even even my marriage like I love my husband so much and he's the only person I've ever loved that I have never been focused on what he does or his potential and I think it's because I finally love myself enough that like I don't love myself anymore based off of what I can achieve or build or create an impact for everybody else like I'm good with who I am as a human so that allowed me to be in a capacity to just love him for being a human and not on his career how much money he makes or any of that stuff so I want people to I do want people to take these lessons to heart because what I don't want somebody to say is well it's easy to say that when you have a hundred million dollars yeah so how does somebody take these and and again I don't think everybody needs a hundred million dollars I think there's a lot of ways to be very comfortable and and and what would be the advice for somebody who wants to feel the way you feel comfortable with their own accomplishments comfortable comfortable with their own achievements I don't want that person to have their whole self-worth tied into their job even if they're making a hundred grand a year like what's the exercise that that person can go through so that they know what their own North Star is and they can achieve it and they can feel comfortable yeah not be part of this right stupid rat race that everybody's in so that's the thing I think there is a time in life to grind and there is a time in life to show yourself what you're capable of you know what I mean and I think those are and frankly my husband is in that place right now he's younger than I am and he's still trying to get to his mountain and his pinnacle and all the and a lot of my friends still are and frankly I have to be careful not to get roped into that so I don't start like well maybe I should create again like that's happened a little bit and I'm like no that's your place in life and that's not mine so I get it and it's important and I think I think it doesn't go away and tell you kind of show yourself a little bit that you are reaching your potential and you can do big important things if that's something that you're after like I would never dream of telling my husband like hey don't worry about that stuff like that's not important like he has a vision and a mission for his life that he wants to fulfill and he's not gonna be satisfied until he does it so after you do it and I've done it a couple times the challenge for me is to frankly not do it again it would be easier for me for my like natural ability to be like well just keep doing that because that's what I'm good at I'm trying to move into that that different phase so I think a way to combat it is to have a goal set the goal work for the goal reach the goal and then move on that's how you get comfortable other again if you don't have a goal for yourself Scott that's the chasing more well how much money do you need I don't know just anymore well then you're gonna feel dissatisfied you're gonna feel um not worthy so to speak or that you're not good enough and tell you ever get to win like it's amazing to have a goal reach it so it's it's wild to me that people don't actually put enough thought into what's that number that's going to make you have a number I do you know share it it's 25 million okay 25 million is my number and and actually I got that number from I've thought about it a lot but that number is like the if you invest 4% of that and if you invest or if you invested that 4% returns you get about a million dollars so let me ask you would you become do you have to earn that money yourself what if what if you won the lottery or someone someone died and you got you got 25 million would you feel the same about that 25 million no okay so you want to earn it I want to earn it myself yeah probably I do want to earn it myself that's a very arbitrary number so that number is not going to fundamentally change how I live my life right now I think that yeah there's a couple things like maybe you know put a little bit more money and help my parents out and what not like there's other people that I could take care of but I love the work that I do I built this is like a job now I absolutely love it it's so much fun which is how cool is that right very cool and and I mean whether or not whether or not this this makes good money for what it is but whether or not it made 100x more than what it does right now it wouldn't change my love for it because I I loved from day zero when I could sit down across from some of the coolest people in the world and have a conversation with them and that's like that's work so yeah it's a good question I don't know I wouldn't stop me from doing this that's for sure right wouldn't stop me from doing that that's the cool thing to sit and and be like okay if I have this is like the work and the money practice that I sort of and that book will really I think be helpful to you know a lot of other people it forces you to sit down and say okay if I had that as you just said it's not actually about that it's about you showing yourself you can make and earn that you know and that's a different answer than just what the number is my husband's the same way it's like we because we're married have x amount of money and he's like I want to earn it because for him and for a lot of us money equals trophy money equals I was smart enough to figure it out I did a good job and that's really what we're chasing we're not chasing the money we're chasing the emotion around it and I've actually thought about I've thought about like different ways to make my number and I still want to make it doing something I love so for example and this is the podcast right now this is basically the main thing that I'm focused on and it doesn't it doesn't make that much money but it makes some money but I've thought like okay so if I keep growing this and then you can increase the ad revenue significantly you can do these crazy Spotify deals if it ever got that big you can also use the podcast as a marketing vehicle and then you can take small equity positions in startups and if they have product alignment with the audience and you can use that you podcast that way too so there's a lot of different ways because I'm building media at the end of the day right so I can use it for a lot of different ways to make that but even if I made that I'd still do this because I still enjoy it like I wouldn't I wouldn't want to retire at all but those are the great questions to ask about money you know and I didn't realize that until the exit I didn't realize that frankly my motivation for work would be as low as it is it really is like I'd if someone would literally offer me like and I'll give you five grand for an hour of your time and I'm like I don't need the five grand like you know if you really want my time that bad something but just call me right I have 30 minutes right now what do you know what I mean it's like that's not worth it to me and I don't have to deal with you setting me a W9 and tax form and I'm not doing that you know so like my money makes money for me and I don't really need to do anything else from the financial perspective so you start to say well if that's no longer on the table how would you spend your time and that becomes the most the ultimate resource what if I if I'm still doing the same thing then I listen I'm sort of doing this thought experiment live but I haven't really thought about it before I'm still doing the same thing then does the number really matter great exactly exactly and so that's why I've spent yeah I pulled into your yard in my Bentley you know I'm like I'm gonna go buy a Bentley I love my I drive it every day beautiful it's a very nice color yeah I know it's like unique and blue and it's very and but I'm like I love that car and then I actually you know I'd never own a handbag before like all these women in their handbags I'm like I'm gonna go buy a few of those and I'm like that doesn't do it for me I'm never gonna buy another one ever again but you have to play around with some of these things and how I spend my day is this is pretty much link about what I just said I don't really need a lot of money to we didn't we never go out to eat because we like to cook at home like I'd rather have people at our house in Miami then go on some trip where we're sitting somewhere because we have a beach volleyball court in our backyard and I want to do that we saw no encode plunge every day I listen to podcasts I'm reading I'm doing like this doesn't actually cost that much it doesn't cost a lot like okay so maybe if I had the 25 million I'd buy a nice place for my parents I'd buy a nicer place for us because we live in a very expensive city so I mean the sky's the only one come to the real estate Miami but outside of that I don't spend that much money I know and you and what you think about what makes you happy it's the same thing it's like money doesn't do we'll spend money on convenience things right we have someone so we have someone come and clean and do our laundry and dishes two three times a week that's just not something we want to do yeah but that's not that much I know though but I'm just saying I'm a money respected and like yeah we will fight fiber when we're like oh my god we have a connecting flight that my family's in North Dakota so it's not easiest to get to we will spend that and like we just spend 60 grand on a private flight there because I'm like this is worth it I want to go watch the kids play we neither we either fly in and get in that 1 a.m. in the morning like we're not doing that so we will spend things on money that like you know what I don't even like if I had if I had all the money in the world I don't even like traveling that much I've tied a family oh my god finally so like Brett and I say that all the time it's a pain in the ass you get off your schedule you're eating more crap food you're not sleeping in your own bed so that is in a great example we have a beautiful home with we have a 12 million dollar home and it's an amazing pool sauna but we have four people coming over tonight to play volleyball I'm like put as much money into this home as possible so people want to come here and we get to stay here and we get to facilitate community and host people and cook dinner and like that is my ideal way to spend time and you know what so you don't know Jean that you'll meet her eventually but this is this is actually why on a smaller scale is not a 12 million dollar home but like for us it was like we we had a house in Toronto then we had a condo in Fort Lauderdale and then we're like we can't do condo like Gina loves entertaining she loves doing like table scapes and like putting all this shit together she really actually she has her own business now but before she did that she was actually a trained chef she loves to cook right um and we couldn't entertain that also we're like let's get a house closer to Miami two birds one stone first of all have the house where you can like entertain and then I'll I'll build out a podcast to do so I can do my job too and this is this is perfect for us so like yes I mean if we had an extra you know an extra 25 million dollars cash lying around the house would be a couple square a couple of square feet bigger but the day in the life wouldn't change that much it'd be maybe we can have you know we already have an extra bedroom for her family we already have an extra bedroom for her sisters like okay maybe we have like two families stay over at the same time as opposed to just one family I have my family and her family stay over around all there's a whatever it is but life doesn't change that much it doesn't and again money it's like my family's coming down for Thanksgiving and I'm flying them all down here you know it's like I'm taking care of all like don't worry about any like you guys are making the effort to come to us I'm taking care of all the expenses I'd love to be able to like do stuff like that so and again this is and that this is the great thought exercise to do Scott because then you stop to stress that you're like hmm I really don't eat that much for money why am I stressing about constantly needing it and everybody I was asked for money advice and like there's literally a gamut of questions you have to ask somebody before you give them money advice based off of do you have enough are you overspending what's your mindset what do you want money for like are you in a position like wherever where you have enough but you're constantly stressed you know there's just so many levels to to money and it can really continue to cause chaos in your brain no matter how much you have if you don't get ahead of it this is why when you start to build something you have to think about what kind of business you want to build so I think that most people are better suited to build lifestyle business as opposed to trying to raise VC money and just like the second you raise VC money all of a sudden now there's like this clock and you have to get you have to get them returned in like a very short period of time and it's going to be stressful and this and you're going to play this startup game and if you don't even raise properly or if you don't take money off the table or if you dilute yourself too early I saw a story of a dude who sold I have to I've referenced the story like five times on the podcast I should probably get his name but I saw a story of a dude it was on Twitter and I'm the reason why I came up is because like something's Facebook does a good job of like bringing back memories from like past posts and shit and I did like a real on Facebook about this guy and it was about the dangers of taking on VC because he sold his company for something like 237 million dollars I was the exit but the entire time he was raising he was paying himself like a small salary like under a hundred K being super frugal she raised around there was at a higher valuation the 2037 million business didn't go the way that he wanted to had to do it down around and he didn't have pref shares so he got nothing he got nothing out of the 237 million dollar business except 10 years of work pulling in like an 80 or 90 thousand dollar salary I'm like okay that's not no break I'm like literally heartbroken for him I have to find his name because it was a wild story and and this this tweet thread went viral and I'm sure I mean it's a decent sized exit so you know the name of the company but the point is the the Silicon Valley raised money hustle version of entrepreneurship just because you want to have like a a hundred million dollar exit is is not all that is cracked out to be and let me even give you an example you know Barry's boot camp so they've been for sale and and that deal just got taken off the market they've been for sale twice twice and Barry's people look at Barry's and they're like oh my god you know they're they're sort of this big player in the space even Barry's can't sell right because some of the deal structure that they did before is complicated they're not growing fast enough their capex costs are too expensive they're open seven studios or something this year they've been around for 25 30 years these people have been in it for so long and like they're they're not going to get the exit and like they have a ton of studios they're doing great from the outside you have to nail it like solid like I will give props to solid core like we nailed it on every single level and I got attention I got offered in my first round and like what does private equity look for because now I'm in it and I have to make sure I'm building a company that is attractive to private equity because now I have a private equity partner and at some point we're going to have to sell so you have to like look at every for whatever line of business you're in with a business like solid core we have brick and mortar your payback period matters your capex cost matter I've even your security deposits right because they're entire liabilities so we didn't do any of those after like the first 10 studios we did none of them obviously the amount of revenue you generate and then your your e-book on corporate e-book so you have to be anybody out there in fitness you need to get to 40 50 percent profit margins in your studio like if you can or no one's going to look at it no all look at it you need to have a 750k minimum revenue per box minimum closer to a million gives you a better shot your NPS score needs to be great your structure your processes your legal complying I mean everything has to be buttoned up on so many levels to get private equity to be interested in what you're doing because people think like ooh private equity is risky Scott they are the most risk-versed people I've ever met they do not want to lose their money or the money of their LPs and they're going to do everything possible to protect their investment with preferred returns with down with every tie you up every which way so you are the last person paid like it's cutthroat and that's what you're signing up for how did you I'm so curious because you took money off the table in the first two rounds how did you negotiate those deals so that you would eventually be in a better spot and you could sort of sort of have the power to say yes or no to the private equity because you didn't share about money anymore which is a great spot to be in yes so the first round they didn't want to give me the six million at all they were like well she gonna disappear is whatever and my response was I've opened 25 of these in three and a half years if you think that I'm in this for six million if you have any of those doubts you shouldn't do this deal right like give me a little bit more credit for the value of this business that I'm created if I did that with no money imagine what I can do with the money you're giving me and so I just sort of said just said that and I had multiple suitors right so I'm like I get it if you have doubts about me my capabilities to whatever I'm like I want to win like I'm not going to go away and like crawl in a hole like I want to win this game I started it I'm going to have the biggest the best the most well-known prominent brand in this space and I'm looking for a partner who believes and trust in me and if again you think we're taking six million dollars off the table it's going to demotivate me you shouldn't do this deal right right and that was the same with the sort of the second round of like I own so much of the business that me taking some money off the table shouldn't make you feel whatever whatever if I'm going to be left with like some out and here's my upside like you think I'm going to walk away from that or not be motivated so I and I just told them like it's really important for me to continue to build my wealth and I frankly didn't lie to them I don't want to be in a situation when I get into an exit where I make a bad decision for myself financially I want to make a decision based off of the value of the company that I built and I think I won't do that if I'm starved for cash smart yeah very smart yeah I advise everybody to take something like and I feel like I think that you have to have a little bit of confidence in your own work to be able to do that your ability to grow so my first round I did a two and a half pref right like these guys were like okay and we'll give you six million but that obviously raises the valuation of the business and we want to I'm like no problem because I did the math and you wouldn't need it to do I know that if I take your money I can get to a hundred studios which we would have done but COVID got in the way and so I had no problem taking on that deal and then we did a growth round after COVID which was a little more complicated because you know the business was obviously not as performing well but I still pushed for a really hefty valuation by giving these next people also a preferred return knowing that I had you know great if I need to be in this for another three four years yeah again global catastrophe you're like outside of this happening I have my benchmarks pre-COVID we can go back to that yeah and I just believed in the power of in-person fitness knowing that just like 9-11 oh no one's gonna fly again okay no one's gonna go to a gym again like do you remember all those articles like the gyms are dead I'm like which was so stupid because during COVID first of all I couldn't find fitness equipment at any store yeah and I ended up buying it was when I saw in Toronto I ended up buying like this horrible like probably made in like the 1970s kind of like like home fitness machine for some dude that was selling it on Facebook like anything I could find and I'm sure I paid like you know five times how much it was actually worth but anything that I could find I was like I can't go to the gym I have to like get some shit in my house and then I knew people that own gyms that were like secretly opening them up and like and illegally opening them up and like I knew that the gym scene was going to come back like it wasn't even a question and that's why we so we raised January 21 and we opened the 11 studios and we said we're opening in the red states we're just gonna focus don't focus smart yeah because we couldn't operate I mean DC was still like shut down it was like okay this month open this month not so we got a leg up on all the competition obviously fitness came back and rose and like we were crushing it like we went back to pre-COVID levels by the end of like 20 early 2022 very good that's fast it was fast and other and like all the the competition so to speak all they were all so they were still playing defense they were still playing defense while we were playing offense yeah well after you so actually no I put out a post last night about the questions that yeah they're no they're not that they're they're a very smart audience I was like these are very good question a lot of people were interested in the actual sale so you kind of have like the lead up to the sale we understand like why you're in a good negotiating position but a lot of people were just curious about okay like how do you find the right partner who's going to make the acquisition the right private equity firm why not strategic buyers how do you make sure that the private equity firm that buys is going to take care of the company after you leave and not destroy what you've built so just a lot of questions around like your thought process when you eventually decided okay I do want to I do want to sell this all those questions how do I find the right person how do I make sure this goes well yeah so the right people a lot of times where people will come to the table you can't control some of that like we didn't have a strategic option that came with the table on 2023 we had private equity and so that particular deal was VMG who is our minority partner at the time they wanted to buy it they wanted to be majority they wanted they they believe so much in the business they'd only been in it for two years they weren't ready to sell they were like and you know you keep talking about ready to sell what if we can figure out a partner to come in buy you out we take majority and I'm like great here's my number you know as long as we can get to this number I'm great with that and I trusted VMG because I'd work with them for two years McConnell Smith was our lead partner over there and then the management and the leadership team was crushing it at solid core you know so and this is and when you had these second conversations with VMG you had already the CEO Brian yeah Brian was already there for two years so I had obviously seen him lead and you know the company was doing great and listen when your company is doing great and have some margins at solid core does they're not going to really change much of what we're doing so I felt like we were protected because we built such a great business which why you had so many suitors nobody had ever came in Peterson VMG and then Coldberg who came in last year no one wanted to ever change anything about what we were doing it was like grow it faster like this is working add water to it and so I know that's you know listen El Catterton who just recently you know now purchased solid core and is the majority owner I think by like 90 plus percent you know I know I didn't have conversations with them because I had sold my shares last year but they're going to continue to build it and grow it and take it international you know what I mean like they have a great reputation in this space the whole management team is staying it is simply let's get 30 40 50 of these things open you know per year it's hard to mess with the economics of what the business is doing already I want to take a second to thank Range Rover Sports for supporting today's episode now let's talk about tools that match your ambition that match the ambition of everybody who's listening today who was taking risks who is upleveled their personal professional development who's tried to build their own thing everybody listening gets it there is a moment when the thing you're trying to build the challenge that you're taking on it finally starts to take off there's like this rush of excitement and possibility and that feeling that 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for all of your journey so if you're ready to elevate your driving experience visit Land Rover USA.com and configure your Range Rover Sport today it's amazing also I was curious because you mentioned this before we press record as well we spoke a lot about sort of how you think through this period of your life and what you prioritize and what you what you want to focus on but you did not start well you did almost start something new but you chose not to and I'm just curious about I know that we touched on it but why did you not follow through without why did you not want to build something because forget about just like becoming an investor I don't know many entrepreneurs that have successful exits that don't just end up going to build something again if they don't like investing yeah I think because it would have felt like the same thing over and over again and now listen you have a little bit of naivete on your side when you're like I was a nonprofit founder right and then I was moving into the four-profit space neither one I had done it before and so when you have naivete and drive an ambition on your side you don't know what you don't know and you're just like so excited to go into it but now that you know what you know afterward like I know the journey that it takes and like I didn't want to have that same replicated process I'm like that's not that's not going to be a fulfilling life for me to do the same thing again to certain other fitness company you know again I'm just gonna do semi somewhat version of that and as I mentioned earlier in the podcast it's like if I'm really into growth I have to be even more particular Scott on how I spend my time because a lot of people out there need money they have to work and making decisions based off of how I'm getting paid all those things I don't have that problem anymore I actually think I'm obligated to look deeper at how I can make impact contribution joy quality relationships because I don't have that pressure anymore and I think it would be foolish for me to continue to be like oh I'm doing this to make more money like I would actually be disappointed you know in my in myself if I was doing that as the majority of how I would be spending my time yeah no that's that's I mean that makes a ton of sense and also it sort of ties into that that both you referenced before about basically when you when you die you don't have any money left and a whole concept and that's sort of a thesis that you've like brought into your life and it's a beautiful idea and you know how cool it is to call my brother I'm like I flew my brother and my nephew and my sisters I'm I'm sorry my niece is a boyfriend down to Dallas to go watch the Catboy's game on a whim like I love being like dad do you want to go sit front like court side at the Lakers tomorrow like that is so cool and I will spend money on that stuff all day long if you look at your journey like even just describe how your purpose has changed over your life over your career because I think that's fascinating too yeah I think you know if you heard of Tony Robbins six human needs yes okay so you know that so I think we need to try to repeat them it's security variety significance love contribution and personal growth you know and and mine have always wavered between like personal growth and contribution that's kind of always and I would be lying if significance wasn't up there in my 20s again chasing love adoration and whatever but security is kind of the the bottom of that one for me and it's always been there I would rather play the risky game than like play it safe and sit on the sidelines so personal growth and contribution continue to set the top I don't really know from a contribution perspective where I'm going to put that energy into quite next I'm in what I call my white space what I have learned I don't really love being an advisor because I kind of feel like I'm sitting on the sidelines a little bit like I kind of have to do my own thing build my own if I ever put energy into something else professionally it needs to be my own thing starting whether a foundation starting a new nonprofit starting something else that I build and grow now I can invest in things and put money in things but I don't actually get as interested unless it's my own thing truth be told that's important to know that because if not then you're you're kind of setting yourself up for fix that uh for failures do yeah do you not setting yourself up for success so when you think about like where you're going in the future and and where you put your time and energy it always has to be something that you're building yourself that you're championing yourself yeah and it has to be innovative you know like I really put back on my feet and saw a court were both innovative in their own interest industries and so I would never do something that I'm like seven other people are already doing that like I would never be that I'm starting a furniture company because I like furniture like I that's just too difficult of a thing to compete for me and I don't see myself ever getting passionate about that because frankly now I don't need money so it would have to be something so innovative that's solving some sort of problem that hasn't been solved yet whether in you know the social impact space right like I think a lot about health and fitness and you know impoverished areas and things like that but I'm not going to jump into that right now I know in the future like I shouldn't say a hundred percent but I'm pretty confident that I will have another entrepreneurial chapter at some point in my life I just know that I'm not going to go chase it down right now because of the die with zero I'm in my I want to play as much as possible base okay I have a couple last uh like lessons that you teach that I've heard you teach on other podcasts I think they're really great lessons um and you can go into as much depth there's as little depth you can keep a brief if you want doesn't matter to me um but the first one that you spoke to uh Gary about was the importance of women asking for more so uh speak to me about um what you see with women in entrepreneurship like what what should they do more of what are they not doing enough of that you've learned at least from your experience yeah I think women in a lot of cases I've employed a lot of women right and the negotiations with women is always different I remember this particular and since this woman was one of my rock stars it was time to sit down and like discuss her compensation and I was waiting for her right to ask for something and Scott it was like looking down at the ground no eye contact you know beating around the bush you know I've really done this and like I would really appreciate and like I really think that I all these filler words instead of just like the value that you bring to the company and what you've done and like how you can help forward and asking with direct eye contact to me of what you want that's never happened with me with one woman ever I've always been like you should have you should have asked for 50 grand more than what you want you just asked for they they so there is a wage gap there is a gender gap for sure and part of that responsibility belongs on women if you're asking to get paid $75,000 and you get paid 75k part of that and the job was worth 130 you have to be confident enough to ask for 130 know what you're bringing to the table I still think women stepping to this I'm just grateful to be here instead of no you should be grateful to have me like I I am excellent at what I do and I'm going to add this much value and and I think that women are frankly a little bit more afraid of rejection than and then are and especially in the professional world and they don't want to mess miss an opportunity so they'll take less than and then find themselves maybe a little bit resentful for it yeah I don't know I don't have a solution to it but I've heard like similar I've heard similar things where if a guy has you guys applying to a job and he has like maybe you know 70% of the things require then he'll still apply versus if a woman's applying to a job which doesn't have 100% of the things she won't apply and I mean yes all of the fat like the the wage gap is horrible but obviously I'm a huge believer in owning your own shit and taking responsibility and I think that I don't know maybe it's just hearing from people like yourself that that hired a lot of women sit on the other side and you're like why didn't you just ask for more and you're coaching people through it not everybody's going to have a boss as great as you so I think that they have to take that and be like okay so maybe my boss isn't going to tell me that I should have asked for 50 grand more let me negotiate and not negotiate like two or three grand because that also looks silly it's like ask for a big number and at least I mean at least they know what you know that you're worth that yeah I mean back on my feet board was a lot of men back in the day and I was negotiating my salary as the founder right they control my salary and we were 50 grand apart and this was like in my last year or something there and I remember telling them that listen if you can find someone to come in here and do the job that I do at the level I do it for 50 grand less you have a fiduciary responsibility to this organization you should do that I'm not doing it like I'm not doing it like this is what I bring to the table if that's not the value enough value for you based on the results I produce I get it and like obviously I got what I ask for but there is a tent as like oh you're a single woman like this is a lot of money for I'm like stop like a lot of money the right the money is what is the value of what I'm producing what is the value of the job that I'm doing so I always try to listen life isn't fair Scott it never has been it never will be and the only the best way to put yourself in a position to win is through empowerment so we can bitch and complain about the gender gap and the wage gap within it it's not going to change until women continue to ask and stand up for more and demand more and negotiate more and work on their negotiation skills and explain to you of like I produce five million dollars for this organization blah blah this is my this is my compensation for me to do that I actually love that I love that that that exact line that you use with your board I think that's fabulous because if I was hiring somebody man or woman and and they said that to me be like the confidence this person has like you know what I'm gonna bet on this person because of the amount of confidence conviction if they take that not just with the conversation with me if they take that into everything they do in the company like they're going to be a huge asset and Scott how many times if we both hired people that have been like I'll take less and like it never works out that person doesn't know how other spouses right they don't they don't think of themselves highly that they're even capable of doing it and like I remember when I hired Brian for the first time and we were 50k apart on salary and he was just unwavering and it's just like and like you know listen this is well this is what my salary requirements are you know if you can't meet them I get it like I'm I'm not coming in there for and it was just like I wanted I wanted him and Brian and I'll say this now Brian at that after a year of working to me could have came to me at any point asked me for another hundred and I would have done it because he was so good so good at what he was doing the revenue he was creating the value in the business of what he was doing and like if you are currently at a company and you are crushing it trust me your boss does not want to lose you trust me your boss would rather pay you 30k more than find somebody else that they hope to cross their fingers that can match the level of performance that you have to your high performer that's such a good point and also when you when you when you say things like that it shows you have options like nobody wants no I don't want to hire somebody where I'm the only person's even considering hiring you like I don't I don't want that energy in my company no like if you are saying like this is my this is my price take it or leave it my shit he's gonna go somewhere else it's almost a year but and ladies I want to be like sit up straight you know like lean forward don't lean back like look at me and you know make a high contact make me uncomfortable that you are so like you're not taking your eyes off of me that makes you feel like you were in control and you have power and like I mean you see so much of this right like when you're slouching it just sells you're trying to not be noticed yeah no all very good advice what uh the other question I had founder centric versus founder influenced what does that mean so founder centric means that you're building a company or a brand that's all about you're making me so I'm like but that you're building something that's all about you and that means that probably the thing won't work without you if you don't go like you I think it's really important for the founder to embody the brand of whatever you are building so solid course tagline create the strongest version of yourself I think you'd be hard pressed to find somebody out there that wouldn't describe me as that way right pushing myself challenging myself leveling up getting other people around me to level up I embodied that brand but it was important that the company did not had that that the company had an identity outside of Anne right so that's when we start telling stories about our clients about our coaches who else creates the strongest version of themselves so that brand permeates the whole entire experience you know from the language that we taught our coaches to be speaking about you know it's like how you show up in solid course directly correlated to how you show up outside of here we gave them these words that really pull the brand ethos into the company so yeah that's what it means from a founder centric perspective very very smart like I would say I would say the the sort of like the last thing that I actually wanted to touch on if you go through if you go through sort of your life's work and you look at all the things you've accomplished because I find that people have different opinions on this is legacy important to you or not um gosh that's a really good question because it's I want to do everything I can that I and I don't think legacy the last two long like you hear of certain people but like if you didn't have direct relationship with them it's like oh yeah that's that's nice to know um Henry Ford do you live in like the Nenah or yeah I live much more in the now and and when I go I want to like I think of my nieces my nephews and hopefully my future kids right like how I was able to influence them in ways that makes their life better and you ask kind of how life was different now Scott I am much more focused on quality relationships where for lots of back on my feet in solocore because it was so big in tentacles it was like quantity right there's millions of people maybe not millions like hundreds of thousands who've taken the solocore class with hundreds of thousands of clients you know whose lives have improved from solocore that I don't have any relationship with right but how can I make sure to be spending the time and influence and conversations with my nieces and nephews with my with with my close friends to really encourage them to empower them to their potential to have and create whatever life that they want for themselves it's like also why I love public speaking like when I can get in a room with people for an hour and get people to leave after listening to me that they feel like they can run through a brick wall and change things about their life like that's really cool to me I love that what would be one thing that I should have asked you one lesson that you like to teach the audience that I didn't ask you about I like to teach the audience that fear and growth have the exact same feeling so when you feel fear right you feel like if I asked you to do something that you're like oh my god I don't want to do that it's your palms start to sweat you're get a little bit of anxiety your nervous system goes crazy and that all happens from your amygdala your amygdala doesn't know the difference between fear and growth it just knows uncertainty attention change and struggle so 99% of the time when you feel those things you are being presented with an opportunity for growth right there's not a bear in here there's something that's going to kill us in here so knowing that when those when those feelings of fear happen maybe reframe them then it's not fear it's opportunity and most people try to like fight with their fear and I think you have to step into gratitude and be like oh my god thank you for that feeling like you are presenting me with an opportunity to grow which I have asked for and I'm either going to shut you down and make this feeling go away or I'm going to step into it right whether that's leaving a relationship moving cities putting your job like whatever the thing is cutting off your hair it's going to it's going to cause uncertainty it doesn't mean something as long I love it and you lean into it then you lean into it you discover what that thing means for you and that's I think that that's actually that's a great lesson that's a great I'll just I'll leave it at that because I think that I think that all those those opportunities where we fear something or we feel like that that response that's a signal that we're heading in the right direction or there's like a learning experience or something that we can improve like that what I most people do they feel that and then they shy away something is wrong something I'll give you a very I'll give you a very obvious example like that that I feel because again you speak on stage I speak on stage and I always hate it speaking on stage I'm pretty sure the majority of the world hate speaking on stage like the most first or second most common fear yet so you know the podcast starts going well it starts getting some you know some eyeballs on it you start getting asked to go speak on stage and then you go up on stage you have like heart palpitation then you're nervous and actually this podcast has been has been sponsored by HubSpot for like the past three years HubSpot a host inbound which is a massive conference in Boston I think last year oh this year I was using 112,000 people total it was 12,000 in Boston 100,000 I think plus or minus for streaming all the events live so it's a big conference like you know it's like rattling like a south by or like a dream force that SFDC puts on anyways so because they sponsor the podcast they ask me to speak and I've spoken now for three years and now it's not even an issue the first year keep in mind I don't speak a lot three years ago I didn't like really have like a speaking towards not my thing and they asked me to go speak at inbound and it's like one of the first times I've ever spoken on stage and it's at that level of contract oh my god I was like I was like not okay I was like I would dress AF um like heart palpitations like I felt like it was gonna jump out of my chest like I'm sure there was a sweat imprint on that chair when I got out did you also start to negotiate of like how do I get out of this and I say I'm sad can I say like yeah yeah I was like okay so how do I get COVID okay everyone seems to be cool with like you bailing on shit because of COVID so how do I get COVID and I did it and it went well and that sort of like kicked off me being quasi comfortable with speaking on stage probably the you know the next three or four times I did it it was still very stressful but of course like when you go on stage in your front of an audience like that then all the smaller audiences kind of seem like nothing and then you build up your reps and now three years later I actually enjoy it. Kat's got there's a great tag talk about rejection therapy have you seen this though this guy was whore like he got rejected and he and it like he like stayed in bed for like a month because he got rejected from like funding because of his company and he's like I have to get good at rejection so he spent is either three months or six months going around doing all of the things we're like someone's more than likely going to say no to you so we like ask the flight attendant like can I give the overview for the flight thing when a knock on a door for the Super Bowl like can I come to your school party just so he would get used to hearing the word no sore exactly and like how do you ever get good at dealing with your fear he's rough to do exactly like roughs how do you gain more muscle you need to lift weight it's like everybody just thinks once I'm confident then I'll do it the only way you'll ever get confident is by doing it doesn't like it's a feedback loop and then if you don't do it guess what fear doubt fear doubt fear doubt it's like action confidence action confidence and so people know this they know it theoretically but when it comes time to like go out to dinner by yourself go to a movie by yourself well everybody's gonna wonder like why I don't have any friends and look at me it's like that's not true you have to figure out how to reframe the story and the only way you're gonna do that is if you go sit through the movie and then go do it again and then go do it again I love that that's such good advice I actually know I'll so funny because I was never part of this community but I've heard this is how the community of pickup artists I've heard this is how they operate so they will go up to so many women and be rejected so many times that first of all I guess they get better at picking up women I don't know but then also they're just like immune to it so then they can say damn all friends like this they say the most ridiculous shit and it doesn't faze them because they've been told no probably 200 300 time I have a friend that literally will be in mid conversation like sitting outside of pieravita and like hold on like literally this will happen two three times over a court I'm like okay this or just go up oh yeah he go I've never seen anything like it and he's five nine and it's it's not like he's like every single woman is gonna say yes to him he's like women treated me poorly for so long and I just taking matters into my own hands I'll go up to them I'll tell them listen you're beautiful yeah I don't know if you're seeing somebody or whatever but I'd love to take you to dinner worst case scenario they're flattered they're literally like oh my god you made my day and if they if they are in relationship they just say like thank you so much I'm like I'm not in should or they lie to him and just say I have a boyfriend you know like that's it because I'm about to say maybe you don't do it with women but but that practice of reject therapy it's so smart and you can you can overcome literally any fear you have if you just do it enough that's why whether or not stepping on stage it's talking to women it's it's pitching your company and getting rejections from I mean if you're gonna if you've not built anything you've not raised yet I don't know how many people you reached out to before you raised but like you can you can jump on hundreds of calls with VCs and be told no I mean you can sort of probably if you're a little bit more strategic about who you reach out to you're gonna improve your chances of success but still it's gonna be an exercise in in either being ghosted or hearing no repeatedly yeah let me give you one another piece of exercise or advice that might help your your audience people forget that the micro risks prepare you for the big risk so when I was I'm going to go on I'm back on my feet right like I was like this is what I'm gonna do for my job and people were like are you nuts like you're gonna run with these guys at a homeless shelters and you're somehow gonna make money out of this I'm like yeah I'm gonna build them on probable law and it felt so scary to everybody else around me but when I stopped and reflected I was like I moved away to college to college I didn't know anybody with a roommate and then I moved to DC and intern for my senator and moved in with three people I'd never met before and went to a city I'd never been to sold my car learn the subway system like all of these things over and over again you realize I've been taking rest my entire life on micro levels but things worked out okay so it didn't feel that scary that's why it's so important on a daily basis to take these little risks because you will be prepared when your window comes or your opportunity comes and you won't be so terrified I love it that's very advice okay um where should people connect with you where do you want to send people socials all that to just I mean like on the volleyball court on the volleyball court yeah it's so funny because like everybody would bring on there like writing a book or like I started a podcast but like I mean like right now I love the season you're in I think it's amazing I think that this is I think this is first of all just your personality is fabulous and this is like totally aligned with your personality and I think that this is what more people should aspire to be just the way that again doesn't mean you're gonna have a hundred million dollar exit but if you can find some peace in your life and you just remove yourself from the treadmill for a second and you and you figure out what really lights you up and really really I guess I don't know gives you joy and happiness and I thought about this a lot like go back to the things that let you up when you were a kid like we don't do anything fine anymore it's also serious like I think this is a beautiful way to live life and I think you're a very good role model for that reason so I mean there's nothing that you need to sell or promote send people to but if you just want to like chat with you and that's where they go one I think the quality of your life is an inside game again people look at people and they're like oh once I once I once I'm like they're inside game their heart their head their gut could be a complete mess because they're never satisfied never enough everything has to be more and more and more when I was really mindful and I'm like I don't want to end up like that person where like I'm doing all these things and continuing to chase my tail for for what so thanks for that and one I'm definitely active on Instagram and I public speak a lot so you know people need to book a speaker I definitely really enjoy that stuff and I think Instagram just the the best way like I have a LinkedIn and whatever but there's just two new mediums like if you want to respond to me or best way to reach out to me or connect with me is through that part and that's the thing too like listen they could do a whole podcast on social and whether or not a tell fear what not but I mean at the end of the day like you don't have to be everywhere if you're not using it for business well then you're just on your phone the whole time like so you're not living life you're not living life yeah and like that's like the missing or I'm like I just again like people working on certain things and I know if you're in that position that place but why would I spend my time in front of a computer or on my phone if I don't need to you have such a healthy view I'm like I'm so happy and so happy you came on because I have so many people to come on and not saying they have unhealthy views but they haven't they haven't moved on from like the build phase of their life they built one thing they're onto the next thing they're onto the next thing the next thing could be investing the next thing could be writing a book the next thing could it's always like a thing and there's a difference between complacency and contentment and I'm trying to live in contentment where I'm like I love like and I actually wanted to do this podcast because it was in person like I'm so tired of like zoom zoom podcasts and like whatever I'm like oh yeah I definitely want to go do that one um but I just think like when you think about your life and the moments of your life you never remember the days where it's like oh I was on my computer and my phone all day and listen I know that that's a requirement if you're really in your building phase for your company I get that but at some point don't do you know the story you have to the story of like the Fisher the fisherman and the investment the fable there this guy in Mexico he's going at us like under the story yes so like I'll be really brief for the guy like like this guy's officiating is fishing on his on his tiny little boat goes out comes back with like 10 fish this investment bankers down there you know on vacation sees this guy oh my god you caught 10 fish and two hours like have you ever like we could get you a bigger boat and you could catch all of this and I could get you funding and he's like well then what he's like well then I could get you employees and and we could get all these things and blah blah blah and he's like I don't have time to do that because I'm fishing here and then later I'm going to um meet we could take a siesta and then taking my wife to town and then coming back and doing something with my kids and blah blah and the investment maker walks them through this huge process he's saying like he's like okay so we get employees and then we could franchise out and then we could like go raise money and then it could become like a huge business and you could sell it for hundreds of millions of dollars and then the then the fisherman's like and then what is like well then you go on the beach and you could be on the beach and then go first yeah yeah I guess I could do the exact same thing and again the lesson is like we all try to and what I just said earlier about like oh I play volleyball all these things I could have been doing beforehand and don't get me wrong I loved building solid core and I loved that so many people's lives are are impacted in a way that like because of this company and I loved it but it really makes you stop and think about why you're driving toward this thing and what you're doing and what's the end game and how is your life going to look differently and it does then it does now and is it worth it and that's the work that's got I do now when anybody asked me to do something I'm like he's it worth it like is that worth me flying like I just got asked to go fly to LA it's like a lot of big wigs are at this conference and I was like do I really want to do that me get some IVF stuff come up and I'm like this is more important I'm not like I'm going to go rub shoulders with Kevin Hart and two other people I'm like for what that's not my season right now and I have to stay true to like these things that are important to me that I said are important to me and like thank you for the opportunity I'm going to pass where I think old Anne or a lot of people have been like I'm going because who knows what it could bring but that's not my season amazing last question I like to ask everybody you had a you've had a great life with lots of different seasons to it if you were going to go back and tell your 20 your 20 year old self one thing what would that be trust yourself like I do think I trusted myself but I won't even tell my 20 year olds off that I'll tell the 20 year olds for listening to this like every single moment in my life most people around me had been like that's not going to work that doesn't make sense you can't do that and I always knew the life that I wanted for myself I knew the partner that I wanted and I didn't really care if anybody else thought that it was possible so like if you are that person right now like you just need to continue to trust yourself and try to block out some of the noise