Alexandre Amancio, Founder at Reflector | The Mind of a World Creator

Welcome to the success story podcast, I'm your host, Scott Clary. On this podcast, I have candid interviews with execs, celebrities, politicians, and other notable figures, all who have achieved success through both wins and losses, to learn more about their life, their ideas, and their insights. I sit down with leaders and mentors and unpack their story to help pass those lessons onto others through both experiences and tactical strategy for business professionals, entrepreneurs, and everyone in between, with a further ado, another episode of the success story podcast. All right, thanks again for joining me. Today, I am sitting down with Alex Amantio, who is the CEO of Reflector Entertainment. Now, Reflector is a trans-media company with an exciting new IP Unknown 9, which is previously teased at New York's Comic Con and is now set to launch his fall with the announcement of a new triple A game, CEO and creator, Alex previously was a creative director behind the hit, Assassin's Creed franchise, and is set to revolutionize the way the fans and audiences experience storytelling with this out of the box, technically innovative approach to their new IP, their content is built on multiple platforms simultaneously, to build out story world, I'm going to understand a little bit more about what that is, and allowing the company to tell richer, deeper stories that connect with fans everywhere through television, mobile, game console, novels, comics, digital content, etc. And all these pieces support each other. So this is what Alex is working on now. He has an incredible career before he started working with obviously CEO of Reflector and with Unknown. So Alex, I really, really appreciate you coming on. I'm really excited to understand your story because everything you're doing is so impressive, but I don't come from the world of creative. So I want to understand a little bit more about your career and how you got into what you're doing now. Yeah, I mean, I think like the cool thing about careers in the creative world is that the paths are very different and it's almost the kind of like everybody that I know has a different journey. It's like almost like every single journey is completely implaudible until you've done it, right? And then in hindsight, you look at it, oh, my God, it all makes sense. But when you're doing it, it just seems like the right decision, the right time. So my career, I actually started in school. I was, I was, I was going to study science. I was, I was always going to be a science person. I love physics. And art was something that was just part of my life ever since I was a kid. I drew, I, you know, I sang in a band, I played instruments. So I always figured I was going to be sort of my hobby. But then, you know, one point I see this movie Jurassic Park and I, I saw them do things that like bring back to life, things that had been dead from millions of years in a way that, I mean, it complete realism. And I foresaw in that where we were heading with entertainment, with games and with film. And like we could build worlds, the worlds that we could only imagine, like even a few years back, now we could, we could start building them. So I did a complete 180, I quit school. I, the only way I could learn to do 3D was there was these private schools that, that we had two in Montreal, I think, back then you can do it through the normal school program. So I, I enrolled in that. I did like an eight month crash course in 3D and then started working. There was like today, the video game industry in Montreal is huge, but back then there was maybe only Ubisoft. And so I didn't get picked as the initial like wave of employees. So I worked for about like almost four years in visual simulation. I did simulators for like ship simulators and aircraft, helicopter simulators, learned all about how to do a lot with very little. And then at one point, I got a, I got an entry like essentially an opportunity to go into a video game company was this small video game studio in Montreal that was French owned. And I worked there for about four years. And we did little games that probably nobody ever heard about, like I did a game called tennis master series. I think it was like the 2003 or 2004. And then I did a game called Memorick Knights of Prentice, which was a platformer. But we were doing these things with about it, like from a temp to a fifth of the budget that other companies were doing them. So we had to come up with innovative ways of actually getting it done. So even if the games that we did were, you know, small games that are, that nobody knows about, this was the best possible school to learn how to work in the industry. Because, you know, if you wanted something done and nobody else was assigned to do it, it's either you do it or it doesn't get done. So it allowed me, I was, I was lead artist, but I also played the role of the art director, the technical art director. So at one point or on Memorick, the, the writer or the lead designer was also writing. He quit the join Ubisoft and I ended up writing it. I had done some writing, creative writing in my spare time. So it really allowed me to test my, you know, put out my creative feelers and to test the limits of what I could do. So after that, the company closed down and we were, we were bought by Ubisoft, they didn't buy the IP, they just bought literally the furniture and the employees literally. So I found myself from, from this small company where we were, I guess, 80 people working on two or three games sometimes, super small teams, to a huge company where I think we had about like that number just in my game and my game was Far Cry 2. I remember Far Cry. I was like, those are, these are started to become bigger names, I guess, second you moved to Ubisoft because that's a, that was a huge game. Yeah, and I mean, the first one had come out, it was, it was this relatively obscure game made by a German studio called the, a, a, a, a, a, a, and Ubisoft bought the game engine and bought the IP with it. And our first man, it was, how do you turn this into an IP that will, you know, like be more successful and bigger. So it was, the first one was all about like Newton monsters and an island, tropical island. So we dropped those and we, we made it about, you know, you know, human against nature. Like, you know, the wrong place, the, the, the, the, the, a guy that said wrong place is a wrong time, but it's the right person to be in that wrong place. So, so it was all about a fish out of water. And we, we envisioned this IP being always with a different protagonist, the, the one thing that was common to everything was the fact that you had this character. It was dropped into, from their, their perspective was an alien world and they had to use their wits to survive against these bad guys. And the, the executive producer back then gave me a challenge. He said, look, I want this game, he showed me what crisis was we're now working on. And he shows me this game that would become a game called, uh, crisis, uh, the company criteria. The, and, um, he shows me this game and goes, I want far, quite a tune and look as good as that. And I looked at the screen, I'm like, but that's running on a $5,000, $6,000 computer. And, you know, we have to run on a $300 Xbox. So, but I, I guess because I was young and a little naive, I accepted the challenge. And, uh, I spent the next three years trying to figure out how, how do you reinvent the way that you create art assets for, for video game in a way that you essentially circumvent the flaws of consoles, which back then were memory, you know, you didn't have enough memory, you know, like these, these big computers had these amazing graphic cards with, you know, a lot of RAM, whereas you were limited in an Xbox or PlayStation. So what the advantage we had in the consoles is that we had a lot of processing power. So I envisioned this way of creating rather than using high resolution pictures to sort of create the surfaces for the game, which is the traditional way of doing it. I, instead try to figure out how do we simulate surfaces? So by using things like, uh, fractals and like, uh, like small, tie-able textures, but you, that you stack and then blend between one and the other and trying to reproduce actual surfaces rather than trying to map them with big pictures. And, uh, the added benefit to this was that it made assets be a lot more flexible. We could, we could, um, essentially have them accumulate dirt over time. We could have them rust, uh, so they felt more alive. We could burn them and have them actually literally turn to ash. So it made for a game that not only, I think, looked great at the time, but also that was the probably the most dynamic and immersive open world that had ever done, they've been done back then. You could, you could, you know, burn it like fire propagation through wind and, you know, the vegetation was all dynamic. You could literally, uh, shoot branches. And if you stayed there long enough watching, you'd see the branch grow back. Hmm. So everything was procedural. Everything was, so, so I was, uh, I felt very proud of that, especially because the first two and a half years, people thought it was nuts, um, you know, because before all the tech was ready and everything was ready, it didn't look very good. But I was like, no, trust me, it'll work. This is going to work. And luckily, I guess, again, I guess I was lucky. It worked out and it turned out really great. It bought me a lot of, um, capital within the company. Um, so what I said is, well, as our director, because after, after the game, like, Autodesk had me, which they're the makers of the 3D software that we used, they had me tour the world. They invited me to Japan. I did conferences on this new, uh, like technique for creating assets. So after having done that, I figured, well, you know, there's very, like, I couldn't see how I could sort of talk that at least in the short term as an art director. So I asked you to be soft. Well, I'd like to, I'd like to evolve towards creative direction. And, uh, they said, but, you know, like, we really like you as an art director. You just did park right too. And like, I understand, but, you know, I think I, I have something to bring, uh, in terms of creative direction. So they said, okay, look, we're, and this, this is, I really appreciated this, uh, the fact that they actually went for this, but they said, look, we'll give you a room. They converted a, uh, a big meeting room into, uh, sort of a private little, uh, lap. And they, they gave me two designers, um, uh, some programmers and they said, you know what, um, pitch us a game, come up with something and, and we'll see what you can do as, uh, a creative director. And I said, okay, so they gave me three months. Um, I came back with, uh, five pitches. Um, and, uh, I think we had three prototypes. Um, one was actually AR and augmented reality assassin's screen that you could play on the table. Um, one was, I think a platformer, the other one was a pirate game. Uh, and it was, there was a bunch of different concepts. And I pitched them to the various executive producers at Ubisoft. And one, I think saw potential in, and he said, look, the five games that you just pitched, I think we should make all five of them. But I mean, it's just not going to happen because we, we can't start those many new IPs. And since I certainly don't have the power to start a new IP in this company, you'd have to get a green light from, like, very top. That being said, I think you could bring something to this, to my, my brand that I manage, which is sort of nascent, uh, if they had done a couple of games, which was a assassin's screen. And he said, look, I want you to do the biggest, most ambitious one that we've ever, uh, done. Um, and I wanted to sort of, like, break new ground. I wanted to be, um, the next generation. Uh, but before we do that, um, we sort of have a little problem, like, okay, I'm listening. And he goes, well, um, we sort of, uh, we're working on AC3, but we sort of, um, sort of need to, to, to, to release an assassin's screen game this year. And I went like, what do you, what do you mean this year? Like, like, like, like 11 months from now, and he goes, yeah, and we don't really have a team because the team that's made the previous ones, they're, they're burnt out. They're, they're, they're much, much needed rest. So we're going to have to create a new team and, uh, you'd be the creative director. And then we get a producer who, uh, who hasn't shipped an assassin's screen game yet either. And, uh, maybe you guys meet if you guys get along well, you know, we can, we can get this started. And it can give me all the easy jobs, eh? Oh, because again, because I could probably because I was young and very naive. I said, ah, sure, like challenge accepted. I like hard missions. And so we, we essentially, um, we formed the team and, um, we, from beginning to end, we shipped, uh, assassin's screen revelations in 10 months, which is, uh, the record for, I think, I think for, for, for, uh, a full size assassin's screen game. And we ended up, um, it went so smoothly. I think that, um, the stars must have been aligned because the team that we put together was, um, I think one of the best teams that I've certainly ever worked with in my entire career. Um, so we shipped that. And then, uh, the executive producer said, well, you know, that pirate game that you pitched, that was a pretty cool idea. You think we can sort of make an assassin's screen game with that? I'm like, yeah, for sure. So I, I essentially started the, uh, the conception of assassin's screen black flag, which was then called golden age. And I got it greenlit, um, by, uh, upper management. And then afterwards I went on to, um, the big one that I was supposed to do originally, which they had sort of started, but it was a little bit lacking direction. It was lacking creative director. So, uh, my, my, my, my revelations team continued on black flag. And I went on to pick up, uh, unity to, to, to ship that game because I was sort of the, the big priority for the company. It was a big, big investment. It was their next generation assassin's screen. So, um, um, it was probably, uh, well, certainly back then it was the most ambitious. It was huge. We reconstructed Paris in its full splendor, but Paris as it was before it was re, uh, re-done by Napoleon III and, uh, an architect called Ausman. Um, so we did the medieval Paris that you can't see today. Um, unless you go, uh, uh, to the center island in the SCTA, you still can see that old Paris, but that's pretty much it. The rest of Paris was beautified and with those big buildings that you now know. Um, so, um, and we ended up breaking a lot of ground like first, uh, sort of co-op, assassin's screen game first, uh, full-sized, um, city where you could go into interiors as well before you needed loading. You couldn't sort of go into houses because they were actually too small. They weren't a scale. They were about a third, too small. And we were able to actually have crowds of up to 10,000 NPCs on screen, which was probably still is, I think the record in a game, um, for a fully realized crowd. So we ended up breaking a lot of technical ground on that game. It was very, very, uh, ambitious production. And then, um, as I was working like throughout my career as creative director, I, I really started seeing the, um, and this started with revelations. I started seeing that what we were working on, what we were building. It was more than video games. I think that we, we were stuck in the medium, but in reality, we were building a modern mythology. We were building, um, these, uh, a mirror to society. We were building these new characters and these new factions that sort of represented currents that were, the humanity was sort of going through, which I think is, is probably what entertainment does best. It's, it sort of provides society with a mirror. And I felt that we were expanding this story, um, across a lot of different media, like comic books, uh, with revelations. We actually did a pilot for, uh, an animated, uh, um, show that we actually released the pilot, but we never pursued the show. But we were, we were doing spin-offs, novels, and the novels that, for the games that I worked on weren't the story of the game. It was always a different story that was complementary to the game, expanding the game. But it was a standalone, but if you combine both, you could have a different perspective. And I started really realizing that, um, that entertainment companies in general were focusing on the medium, and I, I started wondering why are they doing that? Why, why is a film studio, you know, a film studio when what the value that they're creating, like, let's say, Lucasfilm, for example, what they're creating is a modern mythology, it's Star Wars, right? Whether it's a film or comic book or a game, makes no difference. The, the, the, the product that they're creating is the mythology. It's not the medium. And, um, something else came to mind. I realized that this is exactly what a lot of companies, the mistake that a lot of companies make. Like, if you look at Kodak, for example, Kodak, um, was the number one reference for everything to do with your memories, right? And in my opinion, when they were at their apex, Kodak was the memory company. It was the memories of your life. But because they were making most of their revenue through film, because they were developing your film, like, back then, it's hard to imagine today, but people were literally putting their film in envelopes, shipping into Kodak and Kodak would send pictures back through the mail. And like, over 80% of their revenue was was from from film. So when their own R&D department invented the digital chip, the digital camera, they're like, well, this is no use to us because it cuts us out of our main revenue. So they sold it off, right? And then they ended up killing themselves. But if Kodak, rather than seeing themselves as a film company, they saw themselves as an image company or a memory company, they probably today would dominate the world of digital camera, of digital, like Photoshop would maybe be one of their products, right? And I think that this is the same mistake that sometimes entertainment companies do, is rather than viewing themselves as creators and mythologies, they see themselves through the lens of their medium. And the medium might not exist 20 years from now, but people will always want stories and characters. So this is where, after Unity, this had sort of grown in my mind, and I decided to leave Ubisoft and start something on my own, where I would maybe try to found the company that was based on those values on this idea of creating myth. So this is where Reflector sort of came about. I wanted to actually highlight a point that you mentioned that I think you're probably going to get into. But I noticed, as I fully agree with what you're saying about this whole mythology and this whole brand, I've noticed that fans actually supplement a lot of those lost opportunities that brands don't take advantage of in some of those companies that you mentioned. And it's a shame because you see all that and silvery stuff created after the fact. You're absolutely right. And the other, and you're so right, because the other, the other angle like creating an IP and doing it like in a Transmedia way with a lot of products and telling complimentary stories, the fan base, that's the missing piece of the puzzle. Because if you're able to integrate the fan base and make them part of the creation process, make them part of the tissue of the meta tissue of the IP, that I think is when you've essentially reached that Transmedia in Robana. Because I mean, look, and I've had discussions about this with a lot of people that really believe in Transmedia. Like, you know, you might know a guy called Tim Kring, he created heroes, right? And that TV show was one of the first, if not the first TV show to really capitalize on social media and the modern world. They created a strong community, and they created a lot of like ARG's alternate reality games. They created like content for the fans, like using the digital technology and digital social media of that day and age. And one thing, in conversations that I've had with Tim, it was all about, well, he always called it like feeding the zombies. It's almost like as much content as you throw into the world, there's so many, there's a lot of fans that are just gobbling it up and you can't produce it fast enough to feed these fans, these rabbit fans. So the way to do it is to find a way where fan creation becomes, you sort of crowdsource a lot of that creation and you give the fans a voice so that the fans can also feed themselves and it creates a sort of a positive feedback between the fans and the team that's actually creating this stuff. Now, you took that and you brought that into Reflector, that whole ideology. So speak to me about, you know, you started Reflector, how did you build that out? What was your first steps and then how did you get to unknown nine and what you're doing now? So the idea was really initially started with that concept, that concept of transmedia and I knew that a concept and idea is great, but it only works if you have the right content behind it. You know, the concept in itself is worthless. It doesn't have the right product or the right world to push behind it. So the first couple of years, we're a lot about trying to figure out what IP or what new world we could create that was compatible with this concept of transmedia, but that really resonated well with the zeitgeist of the moment. You know, I truly believe that if you're going to create a world or a universe that sort of lasts in time, it has to resonate with the spirit of the moment, with the zeitgeist of the time. I mean, Star Wars, when Lucas created it, it was the perfect timing because it was all about, you know, this rabble, this Raktag band of rebels that were outnumbered by this overpowered military. For him, it was a metaphor on the Vietnam War, right? And on the rebels that were the Viet Cong, I guess, against an imperialistic force coming in. But it also was extremely positive in a world where, in a time where I think the US especially needed a positive story. It wasn't about dark and depressing. There was hope. So I think that even if people don't know what's behind the inception of it, that energy and that force, no pun intended there, sorry, it just... No, that's fine. Star Wars puns are always allowed. But it sort of seeps through and I think that fans, like we capture that, like a antenna, like a signal to an antenna. So the first part was like, what's the world of today? You know, what are the big questions that are essentially fundamentally at the forefront of the human experience? And I started upon this, one thing that came to mind is that we are evolving so fast as a species. We're getting to a point where our transformation as a species is accelerating to vertiginous speeds. And we are essentially becoming gods in most every sense of the word. In the sense that we're cracking the basic building box of the universe. In every week, I'd read articles about a new way that we could annihilate ourselves as a species. I read this article on the news. A few years ago, there were thinking of creating these miniature black holes to power cities. And I'm like, oh, that's great, the miniature black hole on the surface of the earth. Like, what could possibly go wrong? So the other ones were like, oh, we're going to invent this retrovirus that allows us to essentially add any genetic material to it, like a cure for something so that we infect people with the cure and that, yeah, like, then we have a zalbi blader, some flanger or something. So again, what could possibly go wrong with that? So I felt that we had attained the knowledge of gods, but our capacity to wheel that knowledge or collective wisdom was actually dwindling. We went from a society that used to venerate wisdom to a society that venerated knowledge. And now we live in a society that venerates data, but data is knowledge that hasn't been analyzed and knowledge is wisdom that has been acquired through books, not through experience. So I felt that we're at a crux in our evolution and we either transcend our inherent flaws as species and transcend to that next level or we really risk annihilating ourselves as a species and that's where Unknown Nine came from. That concept, like Lucas with Star Wars and the Vietnam War, people might never know this if nobody tells them, but the spirit of it is encoded in the DNA of the world and so hopefully this is what people will seize on and it'll create a world in characters that are very relevant to the realities of today. I love that you, the thought that went into this and I think it's highly relevant and I even used to point about the fact that we've sort of degraded how we make decisions as a society. I would even argue that many of our decisions are no longer even database. I think that we've taken a step back from that. But that's not the point of this podcast. So as you build out Unknown Nine, where are you at in its creation now? Just to sort of tee it up for everyone because I saw the trailer and the trailer really just walks through. It's a beautiful trailer, it doors open, it shows a plum tree, it speaks about, I guess a god like leaving a portal open and that's just like the teaser, the queue up the story and I didn't know where where you were in the actual development or the release. So where are you at right now? So we're working hard on what we call our first story cycle and a story cycle is something that we we came up with but it's the equivalent. Think of it, it is to transmedia what a season is to a television show. So you have to wrap it up into digestible bites so that people can actually start and follow it and know where to start the next cycle. So if it's just like a big sprawl, then it might be scary or difficult to the uninitiated but if you break it up into narrative cycles. So we're working on our first story cycle. Our first story cycle is three novels. We've published the first one. We've kept it pretty hush hush because I'll get into that later about our announcement that we because of COVID we sort of had to cancel it but the first novel is out. The second one is finished. It's I think it's finalizing the editor of this week or next week. The third one is already outlined. We are working on a comic series, a comic book series of 12 issues which is about the size of washmen if you want to comparison. We're working on a podcast. It's three seasons. The first one is completely recorded. We're finalizing the writing on season two. Season three is outlined and we're going to start recording season two pretty soon. COVID again as soon as it dies out a little bit. We're working on this ambitious digital platform where you can consume all these products. You don't need to consume them on the platform. You can buy the book on Amazon or whatever but it's it's a one place where you can actually delve into the world and the platform itself is an interactive experience so you can be part. Remember we talked about the fan base being part of it. This is it. Like you're part of the world. You're part of your character in the world and you can actually delve into it and explore, find secrets, follow us down the rabbit hole. It's a very ambitious initiative. We're also working on a AAA video game and we're also developing a film. We have loads of digital series that also are embedded in our platform that you can consume on the platform. I guess a question about how you built out this narrative and how you went through these sprints for lack of a better term because I'm I'm an educated on this. As you look at these different sprints and release these different products is what's the strategy behind getting somebody engaged and involved and in love with this story world? Why the book first? Why not the video game? Why not a movie first? It really depends on the it's very good question. It really depends on the on the story world or even on the the specific story cycle. So right now like the the way that we were supposed to launch it was not just the novel. It was supposed to be a lot of stuff in tandem but then COVID hit. So the way we do it is that we don't treat you don't need to have read the book to enjoy the film or the game or each product is standalone and it's each product is treated like it's an acquisition channel. So we we create the novel not like a spin-off of something else. We create the novel as though we were only making a novel. It's it's for us it's a priority. It's like our principal product and we create the podcast with the same philosophy every product. So if somebody just likes books and likes that genre of book they'll find that book really good and the book is actually like rated I think three four point four point twenty something on on Goodreads which is very high for Goodreads because we treated it like it's this is it this is not like an insultery that we just write like gift to somebody and you know just write something fast so that we can capitalize on whatever our main product is it's treated like a main product. So the way the way that everybody will get into the IP and to the world is different if you're if you're a novel reader and you read it and you you like it and then you learn that there's a podcast you might give it a try and then you might get hooked on it and then you might hear about a video game and then that's your own journey my journey might be more I love comic books and I I'm enjoying the comic book and then I might give the the film a try because hey some of the characters are in the film but if we go watch the film together and I played the game and read the comic book and you've you know read the book and listen to the podcasts you're gonna have a different perspective than I do and so when the film is gonna start I'm like oh shit I know what this character is and you like it yeah baby but yeah but it's not it's not so clear cut because that character also did this and then it gets us into a debate and it encourages conversations talks like forums like it posts so that's how you sort of encourage that building of that community by giving people different perspectives and allowing them to connect the dots but because everybody has a different perspective they're gonna see connections that others aren't and so that again it encourages all of that like hopefully all of that cool chemistry on social media and community building and community growth and and is this I want to understand how you were planning to take this to market in COVID and state of the industry before that I just wanted to understand is this something that is entirely proprietary is there anyone else doing anything like this or as a concept of a story what purposefully building a story world is that innovative in in this industry it is pretty innovative and a lot of people have toured around with with trans media and you know like this this the concept of trans media isn't new but the specific way that reflector is doing it is pretty new and you know any company that says that they're doing trans media often oftentimes and I don't want to generalize but often when you have a conversation after five minutes you go aha and the usually the ha ha is when they start talking about their tentacle right well it really is a TV show but we're creating all this stuff too so it's okay to have like reflector we have we know what our revenue driver is we know which one is the product that we are hoping to make money out of but or principle money money driver but there's a difference between the money driver the revenue driver and the philosophy and the deployment and and and what you're keeping your eye on so most companies the thing is there even if a company has all of these different divisions let's say they have comments books they have games they have films tv shows like all of it but they're all siloed and on top of each silo is somebody that runs that division or that company and that person will find a difficult swallow if you know let's say I'm the company X and I run the game division and I'm told well your game is a lost leader because the TV show is going to make a lot of money and they say well why will I have read on my bottom line so that the person that runs the other division can can recall the profits I'm penalized for this so it becomes difficult to collaborate whereas reflector the business model is on the IP itself it's on the world so it's much easier then to have lost leaders because your your your ultimate valuation is on the world itself that you're building as long as the world expands it grows the fan base grows as long as you're making money it's okay to sacrifice certain products as lost leaders because ultimately even if they're not making any direct money they're increasing the value of the of the IP of the world yeah no that makes it that makes a ton of sense sorry go ahead I didn't mean to interrupt no no that's what's really different about like the specifically about our business model so so walk me through how you were going to take it to market because I read an article on South by Southwest and how you were planning on on creating this this I guess is this event at South by Southwest and I thought that was a great microcosm of how you can you can build out so many different facets to even a launch so it's like you know everything you do seems to be multifaceted and have so many different angles and then also just I guess the state of the industry you know what what you were planning on doing that you're allowed to talk about in terms of taking from market because obviously covid and whatnot yeah so I can tell you how we were going to do it and now how we're sort of like without again without revealing too much but I'll I'll explain how we're sort of reacted and how we've we've reimagined our to market strategy so originally we were going to announce unknown nine and we were going to actually release a lot of products at South by Southwest and about a week before a little less than a week before it opened we actually had people on the ground there preparing um it was canceled because of covid now the way we were going to do it is that one of the products that I didn't talk about was live events and I didn't talk about it earlier for obvious reasons because right now it's very difficult to think about live events when people are still wearing masks and people are still afraid for their for their lives so our priority has to be for some foremost people safety but back then we really thought and I still believe like once once once hopefully covid is going to be resolved you know eventually with with the vaccine or medication and I think humans are social animals it would be a shame that we can't go back to that actual social gatherings because I think that's part of what our species is about um so we were going to do probably one of the most ambitious live events ever attempted at South by Southwest so we were first of all we were opening we were doing the official opening party for the interactive division of South by Southwest and then we were inviting people to this event that was happening in the streets of Austin this huge architectural dig and people are going to be part of it and people were going to show what was discovered under the city and it was this very very ambitious very cool event that people could take part in and and this would lead to our announcement and we were going to announce that we were going to launch a bunch of products a bunch of the ones that I spoke about earlier today and then and then it was going to be also the launch of our platform and then the platform would evolve gradually as span as span sort of joining we would go to phase one based two phase three and and and then as new products were released we would we would we would expand that experience in the platform and in the narrative the ongoing narrative so obviously we had to rethink every and we had to react very quickly when when you know stuff started happening very very quickly and the team the team that we we sort of pulled back and we started thinking about like okay like this thing is here to stay for a while this COVID so how do we start envisioning a launch that takes into account the new reality that we live in so we essentially fell back on something that was a lot more digital in nature so we're still going to use an event to amplify our message we're still going to use like even if it is a digital event but then our launch and our strategy at least for the moment is going to be wholly digital and we're going to avoid anything that's life just again but the good thing about this is that people are actually never going to get the C version one of the platform because we kept working on it since Southwest and we're when we actually launched the initial version it's not going to look like what was supposed to be the initial version it's all already going to look like something much much more ambitious so I'm at least excited about that part I think fans are you know it's going to be much more of a cool experience to see something that that is already a game changer rather than having you know the first portion and having see that game changing aspect you integrated later on so that so do you have um do you have public timelines for as things roll out or is it still sort of being you know in the works under under wraps right now it's still under wraps but what tell you is that it's it's you know ended this year yeah we're going to we're going to have we're going to have a big announcement okay very well no I'm more asking for myself now because the more you tell me about this the more I'm getting excited about it it's really really it's a very very cool concept and now once you understand the thought behind it um I think you like you know you appreciate it even more as opposed to just another piece of IP yeah yeah um I I do have I have like some rapid fire questions that I like to ask just to bring out insights that you've learned over your career before I pivot um is there anything that I don't or that I didn't ask that I should have about unknown nine uh you know reflector anything you're dealing with right now that you just wanted to speak about okay so we did a good job all right good good all right um and I just like to ask some of these questions to tee up your professional experience because you've had such an incredible career um so what what would be some advice that you would give someone who was looking to go into a career and create it um the one thing I would say is um is to always follow your instincts uh because um a lot of the decisions that I that I made in my career might not have been the logical ones at the moment but they were the ones that my heart was was was indicating um and I think that it's funny how um when you do that things seem to line up and and and things seem to to like the opportunities that will and also sometimes a road that might seem like a riskier one might be the one that leads you to something where you never would have like I I never thought I would at one point find myself as as creative director of such a big franchise as Assassin's Creed um and I certainly didn't seek it out um because I mean to to to one could certainly try to seek it out but I how does one get there right so it happened completely um out of the blue uh and I wouldn't even have imagined that like two years prior like if somebody had told me you're gonna you're gonna leave that franchise at one point I would be like yeah really how so so by I think by following your instincts and staying true to that I think that the the the world has a way of sort of guiding you around those currents and leading it towards towards um like um calm waters very good um in terms of in terms of what you're curious about or what you're researching or you're excited about in creative and IP creation is what what are you looking into now that's going to be the future of your industry that's super good question and it's it's um I mean it's such a it's it's it's in such a state of flux right now the like the every industry like a creative industry especially is in such a state of flux that it's it's difficult to see even like what mediums are going to be popular like look I'll give you an example um I I love film and I I'm a huge film fan I have a huge film library but I've noticed lately that I didn't even remember last time I I saw a film because I'm always watching series and now when I watch a film I have a sense that something's missing that it's almost like uh like I'm so used to the format and this happens so fast but it simultaneously in such a gradual way that I never realized that my my my my perception flipped on a medium that has been something that I've I've loved for my my entire life so that's the speed at which things are shifting right now so I think that what I would say what I would think is I think the paradigm has to shift from the medium to what the value is that you're bringing that the universe and I think that's what reflectors trying to do and we're we're doing it one way but I'm certain that there's you know a hundred other ways of doing it that might be as good or better um but I think that the important thing is that I think that people have to to be open minded about like questioning the paradigms that we've we've essentially inherited from a very different world these companies were created in the 20th century right these big companies the world was very different uh and the other part of your question like how do I and where do I get my inspiration um I really believe that creativity I don't think that creativity is some sort of like weird voodoo that happens I think that I think that creativity is a direct result of what you pump into your brain and I think that the more diverse subject matters you insert into your brain the more original ideas are going to be spewed out by your brain so uh I read about science I love fiction nonfiction uh I I'm interested by everything uh I think the world is a fantastic uh interesting place full of magic and um I think that if people choose to see it that way they're going to come up with magic and they're going to come up with stuff that is out of the box and it feels fresh I think that that um you know and this goes back to also your question that you asked me about like the advice I think this is also a really like from my perspective anyways is is it's very easy to start seeing the world through pessimistic or negative eyes but I think that um I think that um seeing the magic and everything is what brings about change and what brings about like uh quality um so as a creative you always have to remember to see the world through those eyes the eyes of a child you know yeah I don't like that answer a lot um and that actually tees up I'm curious about where you go to learn and sort of stay on top of on top of what's happening is either specific resources or is it just a diverse you know a diverse that um so when I've I've never been one for um like a lot of conferences and stuff like that it's just like um it it's not really my personality um I love reading um and I think that also having an amazing team of people that are smart and that have varying points of view putting them in a room if everybody is always respectful varying points of view and this is something that you know the world today is is this is this is slowly dying away right people now it's more of a tendency of surrounding yourself with people that think exactly like you but I think this is a mistake because you you just keep um shrinking your circles your perspective echo chamber of yes whereas it's okay to have varying opinions as long as nobody's harming anybody but having varying and it's okay for people that have varying opinions to have that opinion right um and I think it's what makes it's also a check in balance for for not only for creators but for the world in general um to make sure that we never go down a road where everybody sort of convinced of something so so I think that like allowing that surrounding yourself with smart people of of varying opinions talented people that also is is something that keeps um that create creative spark in that originality alive is there is there any any books in particular like actual titles that you that you you've read that you really like um there's many I mean I know I see behind you look Leonardo da Vinci biography it's an amazing bio like and I'm not a huge fan of biographies but some of them are very well like I really like walk walk rises and um you know if you want books on on like um on writing there's many that are cool I love like I'm not a fan of Stephen King but Stephen King on writing is such an amazing book I think it's in my opinion the best book on writing that I certainly that I've ever read and a lot of people say what it doesn't talk about writing but it does it so does so um then you know um sapiens is an amazing book that everybody should read it's about humans about our journey you know um what else is interesting I love history obviously the assassin's screen part of my career sort of gives that up but yeah I love I love history like from the ancient world to classic history medieval to the Renaissance I think that um history is if people read more about history I think we would avoid a lot more problems because humans are humans we're the same people that existed two thousand six thousand years back very little has changed except our environment so we do make the same mistakes and you know knowing and reading about history is is is an amazing way to at least avoid the ones that we've made in the past and just focus on trying to avoid the ones that that you know we haven't yet made very good um and then uh I actually never asked you if you have a hard stop I hope not because I've just been going because there's so much good there's a lot of stuff coming out of this I only have a couple more quick questions if you don't mind um what's uh what's um a lesson that you would tell your younger self um that's a really good one um um I would probably tell myself to um you know like and uh and I would probably tell myself not to take things uh to treat life more like a game in the sense that um uh I tend to be somebody that that is very very um emotional uh whether it's about what I create whether it's about like uh like things um and um I think that this goes with the creative aspect of myself right yeah I think creative people are are are inherently people that are that are connected to their emotions because this is what you're channeling you know when you're writing or uh it's almost like self hypnosis where your your your your brain is is sort of uh just channeling pure thought and emotion but I think that uh when I look to um to somebody like my wife for example where she's uh the eternal optimist she for her I mean life is something that essentially um that that you need it's it's almost like a river that you follow and you just need to be careful not to hit the sides but you just go with the flow and if you're careful to avoid the obstacles it'll take you to where you need to be whereas a lot of times um especially younger you tend to want to fight the current and and I think that's a mistake I think that like channeling that like life energy and like taking things as they come and just being zen about it I think it's probably something that a lot of creatives um um deal with and it's it's it's not only it's something that I would tell my younger self it's something that I would tell any person that that is in the creative industry um yeah no it's very good and then um what does what does success mean to you? um for me success is all about um a quest for excellence um and excellence is not something that you ever get to it's something that if you're lucky sometimes you sort of um you almost like you you you you lightly touch right and it's I think it's that it's something that you do your entire life um getting to create something that is excellent um I think it's a lot it's a life quest right and and success for me is sometimes maybe just glancing at it and or or just touching it lightly and being able to say that you know I was able to I was able to do that right um um I think that I think that today we we we very often get lost in the immediacy of success being like monetary or it being you know like um um I don't know like I I think that I think that for me success is is not a goal it's it's a moving it's a moving target it's a lifestyle it's like a it's like a it's like omnipresent just like like a it's you're always because I I understand what you're saying you're saying you know we get too focused on these tangible milestones like you know I make this much money or I did this or I got but that's it's temporary right like you can't have that because then what happens when you hit that and you're on the other side of that right that's an issue if you if you can if you've envisioned success that way I think I don't want to put words in your mouth that is what you were mentioning yeah and look if you if you if you um if your mindset is about that journey it's about that finding that excellence especially as a creative right um then then you're never done and and you're happy about having oh man like this this part right here wow like I'm so proud of that because I I sort of like I touched upon that excellence right but next time I'll do better and maybe it'll be you know but you know that it's something that you'll never fully attain but it's great because those rewards that you get when you sort of like lightly touch upon that success that that excellence are what drives you to the next one and and lastly the most important where can the listeners connect with you online and find out more um so they can go to unknown nine dot com they can reflector dot com um they can go to Instagram they can go to Twitter and uh like I'm there reflector is there so that's all for today thanks again for joining me on another episode of the success story podcast you can download or stream this podcast wherever podcasts are available including iTunes Spotify Google Stitcher iHeartRadio and many others you can also watch this podcast on YouTube if you haven't already please subscribe and share this podcast with your friends family co-workers and peers please leave us a rating on iTunes it takes about 30 seconds as it allows other people to find our podcast and let's our amazing guests reach even more people with their message and remember any rating is fine as long as it contains five stars I'm Scott Clary from the success story podcast signing off