Alessandro Bogliari, CEO of Influencer Marketing Factory | How To Grow Your Brand On TikTok

Welcome to success story, the most useful podcast in the world. I'm your host Scott D. Clary. The success story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network. HubSpot podcast network is the audio destination for business professionals who seek the best education and inspiration on how to grow a business. HubSpot podcast network hosts act as on demand mentors to entrepreneurs, startups and scale ups through practical tips and inspirational stories. Listen, learn and grow with the HubSpot podcast network at HubSpot.com slash podcast network. Today, my guest is Alessandro Bogliari. Alessandro Bogliari is a digital entrepreneur and growth marketer. He is the co-founder and CEO of the influencer marketing factory. This is a global influencer marketing agency that helps some of the largest brands and companies launch influencer marketing campaigns on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube. I know there's a lot of influencer marketing agencies. I'm going to read you off some of the clients that the influencer marketing factory works with Google, Facebook, Universal, Unilever, Amazon, Warner Sony, Snapchat, Duncan, Bud, GrubHub, Hilton, Chipsahoy, Bumble and Vato, Hasbro, United Health Group. They work with the who's who in terms of large enterprise and helping them ideate, create and deliver influencer marketing campaigns. So some of the things that I spoke about with Alessandro, of course, I want to understand some of the campaigns and how he helps brands dominate on social media through bespoke influencer campaigns. We spoke about how to identify influencers and how influencer marketing really works for brands, how you can bring your brand onto TikTok, how you can properly measure the investment on an influencer marketing campaign, where he sees the future of influencer marketing going. He walks through some campaigns that he set up for companies and how he's captured on micro influencers or even larger influencers to create a compelling message that actually gets an audience to take action. So this was really just a masterclass in influencer marketing from somebody who's built an agency working with the largest organizations in the world. Alessandro has a ton that he can teach marketing executives or founders on how to properly execute an influencer marketing campaign. So I'm going to pass it over to him. This is Alessandro Bogliari. We're going to go into his origin story and then we're going to bring out some tactical insights. This is the founder and CEO of the influencer marketing factory. I mean, definitely a lot of different things before this, a lot of trial and error stuff of things. I will try to make it not super long. We talk a lot. I'm going to try to make it like a long story short. What I say all the time is that I started working since it was like 15 years old doing different things on the side while I was starting. I started working together all the single time. I did my first website when I was 12 years old with HTML and some basic CSS. I was still at the beginning. I was doing that with a note pad on the windows. That's the time. I'm not that old, but still, you know, like this was like the old enough to know a note pad on windows. What I've been learning is that I've been always into entrepreneurship. I did my first startup when I was around 19, 20 years old. It was like this website about Milano in Italy, my city. I started as just an experiment at that age. I already got like a team of around 20 people. This was this website about the city. I learned a lot. I didn't make a single dime out of it. I learned so many things about like leadership and the growth, hacking mindset, how to go big or try to go big with no budgets or really small budgets. That helped it out because when you don't have any funding officer there, your mind and your brain is developed to find solutions. That helped me a lot. Fast forward, I always started and did my bachelor degree in Italy. I got my master's degree in Copenhagen, Denmark. While I was there, I was working for other different startups and everything. But I got definitely a lot into influencer marketing. I was working with other people in Copenhagen. I actually wrote my thesis about influencer marketing. It was one of the first thesis about that. It was like a few years ago now. It was like how much you should pay influencers based on a sort of really easy formula. I don't want even to call it algorithm. It was like a really sort of formula taking into consideration different factors. I was really fascinated by that. I was already working in that. I was starting that. I was like this is growing pretty fast. There were already agencies out there but something was missing. In my opinion it was missing like adding more like the data behind influencers that usually platforms offer. But also combined that with the strategic point of view and the creativity of an agency. A lot of the times back in the days agencies were still offering those vanity metrics to clients. I said like now people and clients want something more. So I said let's combine together creativity and data. That's why I moved to actually Miami. And after that now I'm in New York but yes I mean like I co-founded that influencer marketing factory less than three years ago. We've been going pretty fast. We are now almost 30 people between Europe and the States. And it were now I mean like we have done a lot of campaigns with amazing clients sound that you mentioned before. So let's say that the thing that really changed everything for us was that we have been one of the first agencies in the world to offer TikTok. When it was still an as people call it an app for kids. And we actually believed in that. That was a big lover of Vine. Back in the days after Vine got something about musically. But it was definitely like not my audience at all. So I said like let's see what happens and then TikTok came along and that we said let's really put a lot of our effort in data. It's going to be like it's it wouldn't be wise as to go and compete with all the Instagram because there were so many agencies around there. So we said let's go talk. So first like you know first for work on that like again a lot of trial and errors before and then got to this agency start building from scratch. And we went from zero to seven digits in the first year and now we're like growing pretty fast day by day. So quite excited to see what is going to happen the next month. It seems like you've always you've kind of always been on the on the leading edge of trends in terms of influencer marketing. So I have tons of questions about TikTok and and you know how brands can be effective on TikTok. But first just a few a few last points on as you built this brand and this company when you started when you started this company was this was not your first for intro entrepreneurship. Like you said before you had some you know you had some experience not really successful. What do you think led to your rapid success with when you started this agency because a lot of people try and start marketing agencies like every kid and the computer can start a quote unquote marketing agency. So you said you took on TikTok but I'm sure there's other factors that led you to be successful. So walk me through that. So I'd say that I mean first of all when I was definitely younger I did a big mistake that a lot of people do you try to do a lot of different things together. You maybe are not consistent you do something for three months is not working and you say let's go to something else you know. So that is a big mistake I think all the time that a lot of people do and I did it so many times. And actually it's the worst thing ever because you are putting effort money and you have to learn new things. You even put like in some investment in some that you think is going to maybe get back your money the same day or a few months but usually it's not like that. It takes a lot of time to you know you have to have like a lot of factors in all the time right. Like timing right industry and but mostly consistency I'd say that this time what what changed it is that first of all I had now like 15 years of a lot of things that I've done in the past. So I took a lot of different things like you know I was able to I mean I have a I have a bachelor degree in graphic design or direction. I when before I was doing for lesser like work for like making website and everything so like I had all that knowledge so I didn't have to pay for like someone to make the website the logo and everything right I did it by myself then. I knew already how to do like growth hacking so it was like okay I have no not budget but I know how to hack the system in a way right to get like clients without having to spend for paid ads. And I knew already like how to make networks and so on and also my co-founder like you know she was already she was more in the corporate side so she came in and helped her in the structure a startup in a more professional way. So I knew how to do all those growth hacking she was like really good in how to structure a company that because I never working a big company always working for myself or for startups. So startups are about fantastic for many things but usually there is no structure there is no your key there is no vision real vision of what is going to happen in three months six months in one year. So I think that I combine all the things that I learned committed like different mistakes in the past. A lot of consistency, a lot of working hours in my opinion was working up for in the morning I was taking my bike and I was riding my bike to the office and the study working at 430. For Europe and then after Europe I was working for the US. So again you cannot start a company and think that you're going to work for it for eight hours a day you have to work like 16 hours a day. I don't think there is any other way at the beginning because you're going to have so many hats on you. You're going to be the CEO the CEO the CMO the support everything and only after a while you're like able to get like getting more people on and delegate. So I think it's a combination of things but definitely and I want to say common sense things but like the consistency of that it's definitely important. And at the beginning like what I say all the time is try to do the most possible things by yourself especially if like no money or just on a budget like why go there and spend for like getting something perfect. If like all the time you are just waiting for always not perfect yet you know for the market that you will just postpone all the time. So again it's a combination of these things that say and of course like you know doing some research and understanding where the industry is going. You don't want to go into a red ocean so what we have done is that let's get our knowledge into a blue ocean market that was tiktok and no one was there. If you're pretty good in SEO I have a lot of experience in that. I said if we know how to now like you know create certain landing pages around tiktok area and I knew a lot about back linking a lot of like SEO on site and so on. We were the first there we're still like the second in the world I feel like for tiktok in front of my agency we are second now on Google for in front of my agency. We can be like after competing for like you know just two years like you know two not even three years against like a lot of other people there. If you know to those things you can still beat the competition. So again long story short all of those different things a good industry consistency working a lot for that but I just think that you know it's normal to commit mistakes especially if this is the first. This is my first real experience in something but because I come from like ten fifteen years of like let's try these let's try that and you know I learn a lot along the way. 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Let's get back to the show no it's very good and those are those are those are smart lessons for people that are trying to start their own thing okay so let's you know let's unpack tiktok because like he said you are you you were blue ocean when you started this but I don't think the market really has even matured that much I think brands still trying to have a tough time figuring out how to manage tiktok you know so first you know just walk me through you mentioned you were on vine you're on musicality for a bit and then tiktok so what's the opportunity for brands with these short form videos do you see do you see all potential brands B2B B2C eventually having to find a way to reach their consumer on on platforms like tiktok. So I'll say that the majority yes they can there is a misconception sometimes that only B2C you know clients can go there or the only you know fresh companies and you know like more like designed for young people can be there we actually work also for companies like in the banking industry in the insurance industry in sometimes like pharma industry so again if you are crafting the message in the right way you can still do native content. What I said all the time is that not because everyone now wants to go on tiktok you should like this is I said I like even like against our own interest but I think this that do not like rush to something just because everyone is there you still want to have your ton of voice you still want to have your brand values you don't want to just make fun of yourself just because you want to go on tiktok and maybe playing like the silly brand okay you can go on tiktok even without having to you know to dance like finally people are understanding it's not just like for me. It's like it's a place where you can actually learn things you can learn about marketing you can learn about medicine especially during covid there were a lot of professionals that were saying like what to do want to do and why certain leopards were spreading and so on. So like now it's really a hub where you can learn things you can have fun and so on so even if you're like you know someone in personal finance you can you can give away like you know like different tips there if you are in the banking as well if you are a coach like everyone really can find their niche. Actually the good thing of tiktok is the algorithm like if you are consistent in a niche you're going to like your content is going to be served to the same people that lack your content or similar content so actually everyone that is a certain niche can actually get a lot of more niche audience because of how the algorithm works copper maybe to other social media so internationally yes I think that the majority of brands even be to be can be there you just have to understand that one you have to do and think in a tiktok native way so do not just that you're going to record something for anything and then you're going to post it on tiktok or take a short kind of a YouTube video and put it on tiktok. In my work once in a while but other than that people want to see some that is designed for tiktok and to understand before posting anything what the community wants to see read their comments understand a bit more what is trending that week you know so do some more research because again people on tiktok are expecting certain type of content and you want to give them you know what they like. So so walk me through like say you know say one case study to because we're talking we're sort of talking theoretical and high level now so walk me through like say one one V to be brand I think that's the people to probably find the most find the platform the most difficult to understand so walk me through like a case study of one you can talk about of somebody that did it successfully and like what that what that campaign was like. Because I've seen someone I've seen some on your site and and they do it quite well so I'm sure there's a few examples yeah is there anyone that is still in the website there was there was a little I I'll pull it up again actually I was looking at unless there's one that you just like the particular doesn't really matter to me I just thought it would be good to walk through a case study just because I know that people of course every every every influencer marketing consultant agency they all say like yes you should take your brand there but it I actually had trouble outside. Outside of your site I actually had trouble finding a lot of brands that spoke about their TikTok campaigns and whatnot I feel like it hasn't really been adopted yet so you probably have some of the few really strong case studies that are out there. Yeah definitely you know I mean like in general I mean of course like I can I mean they're like different type of case studies that I can talk about maybe let me start like you know with some that is an easy one. Yeah it's where maybe B2C just to get there and then we can go and like in the in the also in the B2B when it has to be to be it's for me of course a bit more like we've got to talk about that because there is more like you know things evolve in terms of like and yeah I realize. Then the B2C as you can easily understand but let me start like with for example one maybe there is more in the in the B2C you know we also represent talents on TikTok so we also have like a roster of people that work with us and under our agency. And when for example it is that we have this talent called cringe Carter on TikTok. He was still is but I like it was already like a big fan of Duncan back in the days. He has done like so many free videos about Duncan. It was going to Duncan every single morning getting a coffee talking about his big like you know it was it was like so so much a big fun you know like it was just talking like hey this is my daily life I want to share it with you. And all the time there was like a dunking cap or some product you know usually coffee like in his end okay. So Duncan reached out you know and said like we want to do something and this was at the beginning when Charlie D'Amelio was going out with the first Charlie drink. And so we help at dunking that way for example with our talent to go out there and send there was this new product. A lot of people loved it is that we were combining together the love that genuinely love authentic love of one of our talent for a certain brand. And when he went out with like you know this promotion and Duncan even sent him like custom and tailored merchandising with his name on their audience like his audience love that because it was like oh you're not just like selling out like you're you know your your your your account you're actually getting paid for like from a brand that you always just sponsored even without like you know being paid in the past. I think that now we are going in the direction where audiences love to see in these co branding activities we're going from a mere promotional content of like a by these to actually co creating co branding things especially imagine in the make up and beauty industry. There are like a lot of influencers that are created their own merchandising their own line of make up because this is what people want to see they want to see that there is a face that they can trust behind that and not just anymore a big corporation. So this is like you know one example but we have done that for so many like you know different like you know industries I'm talking about music industry we've been like you know back in the days again we started working with sunny music universal one music group whenever they had like a new launch of a song or artist. We help at that because you know you can use that soundtrack on tiktok for a new trend or as a challenger and people just to jump in on that are going to use that song and so you start them you know you maybe you pay five people but at the end of the campaign you're going to have hundreds of thousands of videos created on that song. And a percentage of that are going to look on Spotify or Apple music for that song and this is why you see now there is so many songs that goes from tiktok to the billboard and even all radio because it's like imagine they're like one million of people make content on that soundtrack. A percentage of that is going to get interested in that I'm going to listen to that and even the artist gets famous and we have like you know Olivia Rodrigo is I think the biggest example of that how we can start on tiktok and become like a big like you know sensation. So there is more about like again more B2C but for example in the B2B we also have like you know interesting cases about like anything that goes from banking to insurance. Because in that case what we've done with some of these clients it is that we went in a way there we know that some of those contents are sometimes a bit boring right so you don't want to watch maybe 30 minutes video or go through PDF of like 20 pages but what if your favorite tiktoker can tell you in 30 seconds the benefits of something like that about for example your bank. Why should switch to this bank there is more for young people that are maybe they want to spend this amount of money in fees. What if I can tell you that there is new service that count you on that or like something that we saw a lot it's insurances like insurances especially for young people. This year in the States more people saved money and more people understood that you not only have to save money but you have to be attention to many things and one of that is insurance. Insurance is such a mess even from Europe when I moved here it was like what is this like I don't know what to do and I realized that many Americans burn and live in here they don't know how does it work so imagine if a tiktoker can explain you in a few seconds at least the basics on how to find insurance. In an informative video of maybe 30 seconds you can give away five golden nuggets of information and one of those maybe it is a promotion to the new insurance platform or whatever. So it's always a combination of like being informative be useful but also being entertaining right for the audience. So again you can really craft a messenger in a different way and still drive traffic to a certain website even in the B2B space. I was going to say these are just really good these are just good marketing practices not just tiktok you're just really smart marketing practices and the other thing I thought was interesting that I'd love to get your opinion on you mentioned how influencer marketing even when you first sort of gotten to the space was not very data driven. That carries over to tiktok carries over to every every social platform so how do you say it's ever brand I want to get involved in influencer marketing I want to use it how do I measure the ROI what are the what should I look for what should I stay away from. So of course I mean like there are different at say metrics to take in consideration it depends your initial KPIs so first of all a lot of brands what they don't do from the beginning from day one it is to do a forecast on what they can expect and what are their goals. We work with a lot of apps of course you know one of the metrics and KPIs download of the app or send apps after there are certain metrics right if we're talking about a physical product in store. Be more difficult sometimes to like you know to track or sometimes we have e-commerce sales so you can track those through UTM parameters tracking links tracking pixels and even promo codes right or discounts codes. So first of all you have to understand from day one what do I want to what is the goal of this campaign is that brand awareness it is that driving conversion is that getting more followers on my page is that a combination of things. So first of all important understand that based on that you after that like we as an agency what we do it is that based on the KPIs and the location and type of industry we give you a combination of different influencers that can get you to that point. So if we know that is going to most believe me. Brand awareness maybe we're going to work with bigger influencers that you're going to pay more but you can get to millions of people in an easy way and again some brands are like we want to do awareness about this new product launch. Since they know there is going to be a bit more difficult to track because maybe it is in store they are like okay with that and they just like we want just to make some noise about that. Other clients maybe smaller budgets or they really need to justify ROI to their CFO or whatever then in that case we prefer all the time to go maybe with a combination of micro and some medium because they can drive more traffic. And while we do all the time it is that we give to any of them a specific link with UTM parameters so we ask to the client if they can put tracking pixels or any other like firing events on their website in order for first of all see the overall campaigns how it is working to what are the influencers are bringing the most. And free they can do an easy calculation of like okay this is the truck that we got this is the conversion and you can calculate it in many way right on the thank you page if it is enough you can use like up flyer single out on net or many other third party tracking system and you can do as easy calculation where you take the total a budget amount and then you divided that by the different metrics. So you are going to have as you can have even in programmatic and in other like you know other like marketing you know fields you are going to have one that is going to be the cost of the customer acquisition cost and other metrics is going to be the CPC one is going to be the CPM one is going to be the CPI this install of app. And you can even calculate a variety of metrics that for some brands are still important like likes views comments and so on. I mean you also have to differentiate the comments that are just like oh I love the content and one company that is like I love this bag I love these or we can find more information about your coaching service and so on. There is a valuable comment because you can drive more people thanks to that so again KPI is that thanks to that you understand this type of strategy that you want to do and then you calculate that and again you can calculate airline in different ways but usually if you put from day one everything in place and everyone has tracking pixels and truck links and UTM parameters again you take the actions that are interested in you divided that by the total budget as you would do for any other marketing activity. And you can also calculate the influencer marketing ROI again if you have every in place if not it's going to be maybe a waste of money and time but if you do everything correctly set up that if you set up the tracking right yeah do you have a do you find that an influencer marketing like if you run an influencer marketing campaign. You have these huge enormous influencers you have micro influencers do you find that one is better suited to brand awareness versus direct conversions is there any anecdotal data you know just take away is that you've seen after working with a variety of influencers. What converts better what's just better for general like is is you know going to the Kim Kardashian good to drive conversions or is that just great if you just want people to know about your brand. Yeah good question so I mean like I'd say that first of all it depends by the social media it depends by that because different social media offer a different way like they have different algorithms on how to serve content and definitely different organic reach. So for example one of the best way my opinion also to go you know again to to to take like maybe instead of doing just a comparison between Instagram and Tik Tok there is the easiest one let's make it between YouTube and Tik Tok okay. YouTube is definitely really good for longer content something that you where you can explain me more and the follower base the subscriber base it is important sometimes yes but if one of those videos blow out and goes on the feature page or like they go in the related videos you can be seen by many people. It's quite normal on YouTube to find the people with 300,000 followers subscribers to receive maybe five minutes of use. So you can still bid on a person okay that hasn't that many followers maybe those subscribers and still if the content is good enough you can go like you know well and in that case you can even drag traffic even later on. Imagine that like YouTube it's a search engine right so at the end of the day like you can go there and type things as you would do in Google and in others right and I mean it's the same it's the same family right so the idea is that you can find videos if someone sent it to you or on the through you pay the future page whatever but also you can pull information right it's full marketing you go there and you say like you know best sneakers of the month whatever and you're going to find someone talking about that. The good thing of YouTube it is that as it happens for Google your country is going to be there for months for years and if you have a link in your description people can still click on that and you can drive conversions even after three years. On the contrary of maybe like other social media that it is more time sensitive you know like Instagram after a while the country is this appears for stories and for the feed after a while you don't even go check you know after 48 hours you know. So it's a different type of intent and purchase like you know intense from the people. But like Tik Tok on the other end for example it's great if you don't have a big budget you can go there and pay people that are like maybe micro influencer because if they go to the for your page similar to YouTube concept they can blow out and get maybe 10 minutes of use but you paid for maybe 100,000 followers right. You're paying on those metrics or previous videos and what if you know you get like some one of that blows up in Africa and then then you can get like fantastic exposure for a fraction of the cost. On the contrary of maybe Instagram where sometimes you get you paid for a certain number of metrics but because of the organic creature that is not that good nowadays you might not get the best you know there. So again I'm not saying that one is better than the others it's just different approaches but in national I'd say that usually the big ones you're going to pay them a lot of money but it's not necessarily means that you're going to get a lot of conversions the majority of the people and this is what I say all the time. Cristiano Ronaldo I think this now is the first right on Instagram or stuff like that he has like it. You know it's the most followed like you can still follow Cristiano Ronaldo just because he is him like he is Cristiano Ronaldo so even if you don't care about soccer if you don't care about anything that it does you're going to follow because it's a celebrity. So what is your value as a follower is zero so you are going to still pay him for all his millions of followers but the conversion rate or the interest rate from these people you know is the same for the Kardashian is the same for the big ones. They have a big following but just random people that follow these people just because so it is preferable all the time to go with someone that you know that can have a niche audience and we need children I don't mean only people with 1000 followers even people with 1 million but you know that those people are interested in following this person because they want to follow this person. They chose because of trust because of the niche because of content creation and so on. So again it's a combination but again if you're just starting I would avoid to go with the big ones because you can commit some mistakes. And if you have a big budget what we prefer say all the time diversify because if one post doesn't go well you didn't waste it $200,000. You have $200,000 it is better to put you know like you're beating on different horses all the time because that is a good way to diversify as you would do for anything. The stock market and anything right. I just want to take a second and thank the sponsor of today's episode quantum metric. So what quantum metric is going to do is it's going to allow you to develop a single source of customer centric truth that can help you understand how to position your products, how to sell to your customers because anyone is a digital leader who wants to understand your customers better. It should be 100% of you you should want to understand the customer experience when they hit your website and then you also want to understand not just your customers but who else in the world is having similar experiences and how can you use that information to make informed decisions about how your business moves forward. 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Alright let's get back to the show I just want to take a second and thank the sponsor of today's episode HubSpot HubSpot CRM is the easiest tool you can ever find to align your team. 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So when we try to do like all of them it's a lot of work I think that a lot of brands do not realize how time consuming it is to be active on social media. So I'm talking about creating content fun influencers planning a strategy doing a calendar of activities and like it can be really like you know frustrating sometimes because maybe you're trying to do everything on any places and it doesn't work. What I recommend personally is that first of all do not be in on everything just because so if you're audience it is not on Pinterest don't be there like for every like content and you put maybe you're gonna get free repins or whatever and was worth it maybe not. So what about this that like maybe try to find like two or three main social media that are working for you for each of them spend time I know that it's like common sense again things but you have to spend time on each social media some hours every day or every week if you don't have enough time during the day to understand what type of content are working first of all. And what people are commenting in under doors post you want to see the sentiment about that you know so you can do sort of even just like by yourself sentiment analysis of what is working under certain competitors of yours go there see are they like in this type of content on this social media or they are hating it. If you can see that after a while you analyze 20 of your competitors on Instagram and you can see that the audience on Instagram is not lacking that or on TikTok or on YouTube or on Pinterest on Twitch they are not lacking the type of content there are two ways one means that maybe you can be the first one to go with a different type of content so to be the competition and understand what is what you're always looking for or two it means that the top of social media is just not a good match for your type of brain okay or industry. So you just avoid it you know like why just be like you know go there and try to be and meet the system all the time but what I would do is that start with two or three and as you would do like you know eb test saying type of approach for any any anything marketing I would do also the same there do these and after a while you're going to see what is the response rate right on the different social media and if after two or three years you can see that one channel is not working that well. I mean maybe you don't have to kill it but put all your effort in the other two that are working right I mean at the end of the day the 80-20 rule it works even for social media so why spending maybe one hour a day for different social media when you can put all your effort for those like you know 20% out of everything that is bringing you the 80 in right it's it's an easy rule you know the the Pareto principle but I think that you can definitely like you know adapt it for for social media so again spend time on that understand what the audience is looking for. And as I mentioned at the beginning do different type of content for any for all the different social media don't try to repurpose because audience are going to notice that they are not going to like it and you're not going to be much of the times get you know the best fit that's fit back out of it you know so create one content thinking this goes to tick tock this goes to YouTube this goes to Twitch every time should be native. They're not really thinking like okay is the audience they might like it they might not like it but put the right effort and time to create custom content all the single time. And then last last insight from you on social there's a lot because I know that you live it so that's why I'm trying to try to get this whole idea. Last last question in terms of the actual content what are what are some of your suggestions for how companies approach creating the content what what should drive the decision in the pieces they make. Yeah so good question so again it depends by the type of media i'd say that like for example on tick tock something that works well it is to jump in on trends. Pros and cons of that the pro it is that you're going to be really relatable and you're going to be like like you know mostly on the for your page if you're using a certain hashtag or certain trends or soundtracks so you can have more possibility to get featured. The con and it's not like really core but it's a potential issue it is that it is easy to say or let's do something trending but then depending on the your key of the company or decision making or time that you can afford like to put into that it's going to be like okay I will have to do this content but then maybe one day you think about it a second day you have to edit the content third day you publish it and maybe it's already old right for the public so. A lot of brands start with the idea that like i'm going to do these are super trending and maybe one week pass by and is not trying anymore and actually you're going to have the counter effect like you know some some some some time of all didn't say if you if you jump on all the trends by a week no one really care about anymore so. But that's definitely something like if you're under doing something that is trending if you are working with influencers what I recommend all the time it is that try to trust them the most possible so of course if you have a brand values your ton of voice you have something that is really important for you or like a black list of words that you don't want them to say or associate with your friends of course them give them guidelines but do trust them when it comes to content because they are the one they know the social media. They are the one they know their own audiences so even if you if they send you a content that you might not like it or they you don't fully understand imagine that there might be a gap a generational gap there might be different like things that you do not understand but the audience is looking for so try to find a middle ground on that and try not to dictate too much like what they have to say because again social media like especially on TikTok and and but also like on YouTube like people want to see something is authentic and genuine. And he wanted a message is kept in a way that is like a relatable for people and if you just say follow these guidelines and this crypto people are going to notice and and and lastly all the time like I'd say try to be the less possible like you know corporate on social media because people when are on social media unless you're like a linkering but there is professional network you are not in a you're not in work mode you know what I mean like you are you know what I mean. There is a place where you want to see something that has differently out of graphics that is more fresh something that is not definitely that like you know maybe structure as you could see on linkering in a you know corporate way you want to have maybe sometimes a ton of voice that is might be formal but also like informative and useful so it's like a way like again if I if I don't like myself to see something that might be boring or corporate like when I when I'm social media why should I create that type of content. I'm thinking a way that it's a good middle ground between seeing having your brand values but also having your audience happy to see a content that may be maybe be shareable if it's just something that they can see like a content that you can usually see on linkering and it's just a purpose on tiktok that is not going to work at all you know. So just like read the room understand what is happening during the week you know and again try to do something that you know you you would like to share to others if you saw it you know. And a lot of people think that it's okay I'm gonna just post it and people are gonna like it just because no there is a plethora of content and you have to be one of the best out there if you want really to get viral or if you want to get enough visitors to your website the more followers on your page and so you know so again a lot of a lot of work and people do not realize you know everything that is behind actually social media. I agree you know it is it's very difficult. Do you I guess last question on this then I want to do like some rapid fire career questions to pull some insights out of you but any new trends or things that you're seeing that you're that you're investigating now that you think will be relevant in the next six months. Yeah so yeah definitely so actually a couple of things one and we also we also publish a report about the it's a free report that people can find on our website it's about social commerce. So I've been closely following what is happening in Asia in the past couple of years and how people are combining together social commerce live streaming and social media so you know and for people that are listening some of them might not know yet like what is social commerce I still can see that is sometimes a bit of confusion and misunderstanding. Social commerce is like a way to buy and purchase an item inside the app without leaving the social media. So it's not like clicking on a button from Pinterest and go to a third party website and finalize the purchase there it is to buy inside the app so I'm talking about like Instagram shops. You go there you see a post you click on the target product and you can find a button called by now. When you click by now you are just to add your willing address and you can even pay with PayPal or Apple Pay that is already in your phone. So it's a smoother and frictional like no way to buy things. So social commerce is still at the beginning in the US and Europe compared to Asia I'd say people are still not used to do that for many reasons that we also serve it and we got some answers so but definitely a good one and I'm curious to see how social media are going to they already started a sort of war to get more people on the social commerce aspects. Technology is going there I just can see that people culturally speaking are not there yet they prefer still to buy sometimes from browser or from desktop. So mobile browser or desktop so still I don't work to do that but definitely I can see a big food future for that and the second one it's more I'll be broader but it's about the creative economy. So as I was mentioning at the beginning of this podcast like that now influencers are not just merely promoting things they're actually understanding that they are entrepreneurs. They are creating their own solo entrepreneur like you know journey and sometimes influencers are by themselves but actually after a while they have an intrusion of people helping them you know an agent production assistant and so on. And so now brands are going there and they want to co-create or co-brand the things like like you know with influencers and the same influencers are understanding that you can have multiple revenue streams. Thanks to media thanks to merchandising thanks to everything so we're going to see a big future now in the creator economy with new platforms offering tools to help creators and influencers in managing their economies diversify their portfolio and so on. So we started with like just photos promoted content on Instagram back in the days and now creators are like wow actually I can think of myself as a company and and they are making a lot of money and on the other end brands are understanding that creators are more than just like you know people on social media that actually like small medium some people are big companies you know for what they make yearly. And I'm really pleased to see how how are shifting like you know things and even international budgets and interest from from brands but in a international social commerce and creator economy to bots words have been seen along for in the last months but definitely a lot of interest for for American companies to look into. Very good okay a couple of career questions that I like to pull out so the biggest challenge you had in your career had you overcome it. Okay so let's see that when I moved to the States I had no connections and that was a big cultural at say shock but it also helped me to understand that there was no plan B so I think that when you get to a situation of total comfort zone that is where your brain is like panic mode and it's like that's it like I don't have plan B I wanted to stay in the States. And you know and no one I know no one was there to help me so I'd say that when you get to that position where this is it or this is it your brain I don't know how to explain it but that's something and something clicks on you and if you really want to get that you get there so but I say that definitely that one sort of panic mode and consistency to be in a position where I get like you like you know that that is like the only way to do things and you just like follow and that's mostly it so again it's different from everyone that that's what helped me like you know you go from okay this is like something that I might do is to like this is the only thing that I have to do right now you have to do it yeah I love that I love that. Okay one thing that you would tell your 20 year old self. And take things less seriously because when I was 20 I felt on myself maybe more similar to some people in Silicon Valley that they think they are gods and you are not you are not changing the world even if your mission is like make the world a better place is not it's just another platform so if you think that I say all the time is like if you are 20 you still have to learn so many things don't be a bad person to address and not that I was ever but sometimes you might feel that you are more than what you are so try to have like an export for everyone working with you all the single time. You like think that you have so many years to make mistakes there even if you think that that idea that you are having on that platform said that that age is the best things that you ever created and the world that ever seen might not be so breathe in breathe out just to think about like what to say how to your behavior with people because again you are so full of energy at age but also so full of gaps in your knowledge about people about network about companies about how you are going to do it. There are companies about how to make money that you might make so many mistakes just because you think that you know more than the people that you are actually are. So just take things a bit like not slower but again like you know don't take it super seriously because I was thinking of myself in a different way than I am now and I feel now that I am more like whatever I am doing my things but I am not changing lives. So if it goes well and happy if it doesn't I am still happy that I am trying to do what I love to do. That's a good advice, very good advice. One person that had a major impact on your life, it could be family, it could be professional, who was that and what did they teach you? I don't have like any gurus or any person like you know a sorry public person. I'd say that definitely my parents have been a lot in understanding that you have to work to get things done and also that you can always like go outside your comfort zone and you should be always interested in things be like a curious person. They also have a company totally different industry but I saw them working a lot you know to get things done and I think that when you have that message it helps you a lot. During evenings at dinner we were talking all every single night about not just how school was going but also about their work and that why when I was already 15 I got my professional mindset because they were talking about me how their day also at work was going having a company. And that will happen a lot because I was already thinking myself in a professional way and so thanks to their hard workers so like okay I understand like if you want things to get done and you don't come from like a super builder or rich family then the only way is to do things. So I'd say that they were like definitely a good example for me to be honest people working hard and that you cannot just dream about things you have to mostly do things if you want to achieve certain results. Very good a book or a podcast that you'd recommend people go check out. So I know about this cut. Another one another one. No I mean like I think that they're like many maybe let me tell you just like I don't like maybe a couple okay one it is one it is I mean like one that everyone knows but there is just one I think one main idea that a lot about that there is I mean it's rich rich that poor that. Everyone knows about the book but there is one concept that a lot personally it is the difference between being an employee and employer. So on how you can actually benefit in being an employer in your like you know budgeting during the years so again a big book with a lot of some is common sense some others but I find some little small things that for people that are nothing interprenor yet. Can switch their mindset so that tell per me but again everyone knows about that book another one that I liked if you want to understand more about tiktok social media. Vine what happened to vine and so on it's a book called the attention factory and it's pretty interesting go through all the. I had the chance to talk with the with the with the author of that is an expert in all that area and it's nice because you can understand what happened in Asia and in the States and the history and why now we have tiktok so it's a bit more technical. But I think it's it's so well detailed about like everything that happened there that you know so so so again you can read the book so yes it's fine but this one is specifically it's it's a good one where you can have a really a good sense of what happened and you can also maybe understand what is going to happen next you know that's good. It's a new one I've never had that recommended before to thank you. What does success mean to you. Oh wow this is a deep question. Friends we're talking about what is happening and now I'm telling me about success and after one hour discussion about happening as the one was on the same page so. So to go back to your question before when I was 20 years old I thought that success was a being the next CEO of Silicon Valley startup with 300 millions in investment I wanted to be that person after a while I understood that success is not definitely. Or necessarily mean that you got funding actually because all the times you get more money more travel and you are not in charge like you're not in in total like you know ownership of your own startups so it's more trouble usually then then success or or having like you know more bad days than good days. For me now after again many years and having these agency that is in my opinion successful for what I expect and what and how it's going for me success to be honest now it's like achieving certain things that I talk to myself that are like things that I can reach okay it's not like crazy things. And I know that I can for me success is to be in a position where I can finally be like you know financially speaking like a free to not having to work every single day in my life that I can work if I want but because of the assets that I'm building up I can retire before the others. And not having to get crazy like I want a family and everything so like I don't want to get to a position where you cannot have everything or it's going to be a difficult situation for you so for me success is like having the busy things in life family friends a good apartment or home or whatever and not having to like work as crazy so I'm not looking for a yacht I'm looking for a good thing in my life. But again not having to work for them every single day in my life because I can have passive income thanks to the asset that I built before and for me that is success like if you have like a good family good friends do activities that you love travel the world and also having some of those it's I think that should be success for many people you know like everyone is of course I want to make money while I sleep right and and but the message is that if you want to get there you have to work there is no easy. Rich scheme like you know money type of things like there is no how I go like one million in one day they do not exist like those groups that tell you that they just that it exists. So the thing is yet to work a lot together and and and yes so that there is success to me and if I'm happy with like I already like that I'm successful in what I got for when I come from right as an immigrant I'm already feeling myself successful in that but again without having that 20 years mindset of like oh I'm successful I'm the best I'm like I'm no one I'm a people what I built I think that it's a successful journey and you know if you continue like that is going to be even more successful but even if it ends tomorrow I feel I feel like well it went so well. That's good you you had a lot of thoughts out of that happiness conversation. No but that is it's freedom it's freedom of happiness it's it's it's balance it's and it's not just initiating yourself with work till you die and I think that's very very balanced and smart way to look at success. Most importantly where do people connect with you social and website. Yeah definitely I mean like if it is more professional a link in for sure that always you know like free to contact me there if they need anything. If they want to see more like you know daily life they're interested in anything on my Instagram I always post like stories of what I do. It's definitely less professional like no then then other like like a challenge like linkering you might see me like no posting about euro cap I think it's like that. But about a still fun to watch and of course on our website if it's like we factory.com they can find some of our key studies that I know that we have to update but they can find some good ones there see about our team and what we do what we offer. So I'd say those are the main channels but even by email like you know they can connect with me if they need some help or support. If you like any of you like listening it's interesting in this world you know happy happy to connect. What's the what's the best you want to drop an email or a handle or something. I'm sure I'm in on on on on linkering they can find me with my name Alessandro Boyari on Instagram you can find me with Alex sados that is A-L-E-X-E-I-D-O-S or just up in my name you can find me there and and and my email it's Alessandro at the influencer micanyfactory.com. Perfect alright that's awesome that's all I got.