Guest Podcast: Insider Secrets to Scaling Your Business Fast with Scott Clary (On The Homefront)

Today, you're going to hear me on Digital Social Hour with Sean Mike Kelly. Make sure you subscribe on YouTube or go listen wherever you get your podcasts. Just zoom out for people listening to understand what we do. We have to go into someone else's life where they've been living in this domain for the past 20 years and we have to find a way to keep up with them intellectually and even though we may not know anything about the subject outside of a couple hours of research. So combine that with doing it eight times in a row in a day or doing it in this like a little wet box. It's not easy. All right, guys, we got him back. This time in a studio we can stand up in. Yeah, you remember that first one in Miami? I do remember that first one. I do remember that one. Miami's evolved a lot. Yeah, I mean, now you have dope spaces like this. So it's like the whole content creator scene. This is all post-COVID. I think tons of cool people move down here. Hopefully we're part of that cohort of. Absolutely. That's why you're here. But yeah, we've had a good time as we move down here and again, podcasts are going well. We're building out a studio too. Oh, yeah. Yeah, in Miami story. Yeah, oh, yeah, about like five minutes from here. Nice. Yeah, so we got a house. Yes, says in the back. Yes, says it's going to be a studio. Hellio. That's smart. Because that first studio was fully booked and you couldn't even stand in the room. It was like, how is this place booking out? I know. I'm talking about a studio, but I'm a big guy. And that studio was like this little cement box and not only could I not stand up, but it also got super hot during the day. I remember that. And I did a couple podcasts in there. You did like a stint like how you do your podcast where you just, you court a whole bunch and like a period of time. But I did a couple podcasts over like a course of a summer. And I was about to pass out a time when I'm interviewing him. You were sweating. Dude, I was sweating. I was sweating. I'm passing out and I'm like, and you know, some of the conversations, at least with people on my show, for sure, it's like some of these people are so brilliant. And I'm like, how do I keep up with this person when I can barely keep my eyes open, right? I'm sure that's why I respect you so much with doing eight of these in a day, because some of the topics that you talk about, they're not light topics. So as a podcaster, just zoom out for people listening to understand what we do, we have to go into someone else's life, but they've been living in this domain for the past 20 years. And we have to find a way to keep up with them intellectually. And even though we may not know anything about the subject outside of a couple hours of research. So combine that with doing it eight times in a row in a day or doing it in this like a little, the wet box, it's not easy. That's the part people don't realize, actually. Yeah, they think you just show up and talk, but there's research. You got to keep up with their years of experience. You do. And I think that that's why you look at some of the best pot. You look at Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan has gotten significantly smarter. Oh, yeah. Since when you started podcasting to the conversations he has now. So I think podcasting, even if you don't do it to make money, I think it is one of the most intellectually challenging things that you can ever do. And I actually think it just upgrades you as a person. Definitely. I feel upgraded. No, I do too. You have to be open, because if you're closed off as a host, it kind of ruins the flow of the show. Yeah, and I study all the great podcasts. Lex Freeman just did an eight hour podcast. I saw that with all the neural LinkedIn. Yeah, so I just started that one. But that's going to take me probably three days to watch. But you have to have like, you have to, I think the best podcasters, like Lex does this. I look, you know, I study the greats too. I look at like, like a diary of a CEO is even barred. That's a great one. Modern wisdom blew up quick. Even Joe Rogan, you look at like the OGs, Tim Ferris. What they do is they are experts at creating like this safe space where people feel comfortable just talking about whatever's top mind for them. You do this too. You go, I see some of the guests that you have on your show. Some of them are talking about, I know nothing about some of it is like so out there. I'm like, like how does he, how does he get these people to open up? And I think it's just about being open-minded. And even if you have bias, you can't let it show. Right. Because the second you let it show, somebody is going to be like, oh, I'm being judged. And then all of a sudden, that person is going to close off. So I think that you do a good job of it. You're very much like, listen, I just want to hear your story. I want to hear what you're all about. And the best podcasters in the world, they have this way of just creating this psychologically safe space and this vibe that less people open up. And if you can do that, even without, you know, we're not drinking right now. And I don't think you drink on your podcast at all. Some podcasts, they put like glass of liquor in front of your helps. I'm sure it does. But I think that if you can do it without that, I think it goes to show how good of a host you are. And how good of a communicator and an interviewer and just like an empathetic person that you are. Yeah, I don't know. No, that's a good skill. People ask me for tips all the time. And I'm still figuring it out. Like, I don't even know what to say. But that's phenomenal advice, you know, providing that comfort zone. Because comfort zone and it, and it, I think it's required if you want to be a podcaster. Because if you, if you can't create that comfort zone, no one's going to open up and the content's going to be. But I think that the lesson that non-podcasters can learn from that is, okay, how do I, how do I get the information that I would like out of somebody? And to do that, you can't be, you can't be closed off. I mean, there's people that study this stuff in much more depth. I'm just sort of, you know, from a non-scientific perspective, just how I interact with my guests. But I think to do that, I think you just have to be very open and create a safe space for people to communicate. And when you do that, you get a lot more information out of it. And you can use that information to help you in your career, in your life, in your relationship. I think that's a skill that I think is very important. I also think that just to add a little bit more thought onto that particular topic, social media has made us very bad at that skill. Because we are used to being closed off and we are used to living in echo chambers on Twitter, X, or Instagram, or whatever we're used to, not having competing points of view. I think that that's why everyone's so angry online. So I think that in real life, if we can sort of work and practice on that skill of being more open-minded, I think it just helps. You agree exactly what you want. No, 100%. You could apply that in all areas of life. There's been plenty of guests I disagreed with, but you would never know. That's true, actually. You're very much like, you ask questions. And I actually look for an emotional response sometimes, because I see some of the st that guests say on your show. And some of the stuff that I see guests say, I'm like, this is s*t up. This is like, I don't agree with this at all. But you as an interviewer, you're very like even keeled. You're very much like, okay, awesome. Let's like keep getting more information out. Like, let's get some context out. Like, I want to understand your point of view, your perspective. I mean, I think it's a great way to, again, to interview, to go through life, not just interview, because then ultimately, not only will you get more information out, and you're just, you come off as not an s**t. I think also, you can get information out that could actually improve or educate you on your opinion if you feel differently. 100%. So I think that that's just a great way to go through life. Yeah, and people are so quick to judge these days. It's crazy. Like, you say one bad thing, and they just won't respect anything else you have to say. Yeah, I think that that's an issue. I think it's very toxic. And it goes back to social media echo chambers, I was speaking about before, because the algorithms on social, all algorithms promote, when you post an idea, an ideological point of view or perspective, what every social platform does is it shows similar perspectives. So if someone else posts, so say you're, you know, Republican Democrat, you're posting, and this is obviously just a very easy example. But if you're posting a whole bunch of stuff about pro-Trump, pro-Trump, pro-Trump, the algorithm's going to show you a lot of stuff that favors your point of view, because it wants you to engage, it wants you to stay on the platform. And then you're going to think that everybody in the world agrees with you, because all you're seeing on social, all your inputs are all the same idea as what you have. That's how the algorithms create echo chambers. That's an echo chamber. So when you see somebody who disagrees with you, you're like, oh my god, how is this person so stupid? Because every single day, for eight hours a day, or whoever long people spend on social, I mean, the numbers are ridiculous, but however long you're scrolling on social, your view on everything is being reinforced by an algorithm. So this creates this perception that everything you think is 100% correct. And then the second someone says anything differently, you're like, oh my god, this person is stupid. How could anybody believe this? How could anybody believe anything outside of what I see all day, every single day, and then that's what creates that, that anger and the discord. That's so true. That's what happened during COVID. It happened even more during COVID, because everybody was stuck at home. So people weren't even engaging in real life in person. So you weren't even having real conversations. All your conversations you were having with anybody was online. So it just reinforces your point of view and your perspective to the point where you believe you start to believe that your perspective is the only right one. And then that creates this, I don't know, it creates this very toxic environment. Yeah, I think the feed should probably show both sides somehow. It does. It totally, sorry, is that a answer? I'm saying these feeds should maybe change their algorithm to show both sides instead of just one side. Completely, yeah, I agree completely, but I don't think that incentivizes user time on the platform. Yeah, I don't think incentivizes the metric that these platforms really want to incentivize. I think they want people to stay on the platform. I think they want people to be within a community. I think they want people to, I don't know, that's an interesting perspective. Yeah, because it would be a total, it would be a total algorithm shift from what everyone is doing right now. Because right now algorithms show you content that you like. You know, air quotes like. So if it showed you cons, if it consistently showed you content that you maybe didn't like, maybe that wouldn't keep people, I'm sure there's, I'm sure there's a lot of insight and research into why algorithms do the things that they do. I just think that we're, I think that we are maybe not optimizing for the metrics that are in the best interest of society in the person. Right. I think we're optimizing for the metrics that are in the best interest of the social platforms. Because that's how they make money. So agreed. And they're also destroying, you know, attention span. They destroyed attention span. But I don't know how, I don't know how you would fundamental because the incentives drive the behavior and the incentives are shareholder value, the incentives are revenue. How do you change that? That's a tough ask question, dude. I don't know how you change that. Yeah, we're into deep. You're telling me that you want Twitter to make less money and Facebook to make less money and Instagram to make less money. Like I don't see that being outside of, outside of perhaps government intervention. Or I know some people are working on alternative social platforms and democratizing social and not monetizing user data to the same degree as what these companies do. But right now, the incumbents, they're so entrenched and they're so part of our daily lives. I think it's tough to change. We're in deep. Three second attention span now, humans have. For real? Is that true? Yeah, that's wild. Well, it was a new study. I don't know what that's been proven. I think that makes, I think that actually is, I think that a three second attention span, obviously that's, you know, that's just regarding social media. But if we talk about a younger generation and the need for instant gratification, I think that that plays a part of it. Yeah. I think that need for instant dopamine hits, instant delivery with Amazon Prime, instant food, instant TV on demand, Netflix, whatever. Everything is instant, right? And I think that that really, it really screws up your perception of how you should operate in this world to actually achieve what you want. Because when everything, when all these tiny little inconsequential things are handed to you immediately, the things that you should actually make an impact. So your career or the amount of time you put into a business as an entrepreneur, all the things that will actually impact your life in a positive way. I'm not talking about getting your dinner in the next 30 minutes. I'm not talking about, you know, seeing a cool thing on your phone that you're going to, you're going to forget about and, you know, apparently three seconds later. I'm talking about things that will actually move your life in a positive direction. I think that all this instant overnight gratification has ruined our ability, not everybody's, but a lot of people that grew up with this has ruined a younger generation's ability to understand the time required to achieve significant things. So I think that then when you live in this instant gratification world, it's very hard to understand how to commit five or 10 or 15 or 20 years of your life to something. And I think that that's screwing up a lot of people because they think that, well, if everything in my life is instant, why can't my business success be instant? If everything in my life is instant, why can't my career success be instant? I see all these people that are killing it on social media. Why can't my business be making a million dollars a month and six months? Because that's not reality. That's some, that's some architected reality that somebody put out onto social. But that architected reality, that fake reality just reinforced by all the other things that come to you overnight right away. Like it's not your fingers. So I think that we have to really understand the investment in time and energy in band with a takes to make something great. And if people understood that, if people understood the amount of time, the amount of energy and the amount of work, I mean, you've done how many episodes, like 900? Yeah, almost 900. 900 episodes? Yeah. That's wild. And technically in a very short period of time. Year and a half. So if somebody wants to build a podcast, I mean, most podcasts, they fill out after 10 episodes. Right. I don't even know if they make it to 10 episodes. So if somebody wants to build a significant podcast or a significant anything, commit to recording 900 episodes. Oh, you sound right. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. And even if it's not in the time frame that you did it, even if it's over 10 years, it doesn't matter because you're putting in the reps. So 900 episodes over 10 years is still gonna be a good show. 900 reps over five. You're still gonna be a good show. But people think they want like instant overnight gratification, success, everything. And it's just toxic. I feel like I didn't get good at podcasting to like episode 200, 300 to be honest, you know? 100%. And you just, like what you did is you compressed time by putting in more work than most people are comfortable putting in. Like I was uncomfortable putting in that much work when I started my show. I didn't do 900 episodes in what, like two years or three years or whatever it is. I mean, I do two episodes a week. Which is more than most. It's just still more than most. It's just still more than most. And I looked at like John Lee Duma, who did entrepreneurs on fire. He was putting out five episodes a week. And I'm like, dude, you're nuts. Like I don't know how to even manage that. But I think that the point is whether or not it's five episodes a week, or you're putting it like two or three episodes a day at some point, it's like, wild. Or it's two episodes a week. Like the lesson is find a way within your band within your comfort zone to stay in it for an unreasonable amount of time. Give it so much time that it's unreasonable for you to be unsuccessful at it. I think that's Armosia, some variant of that quote. But it's 100% true. Like my rule is a 10 year rule. If I'm gonna build anything worth building, I wanna commit 10 years of my life to that thing. Because it's not 10 years of doing things that don't work and 10 years of beating your head against the wall. It's 10 years of learning and improving and iterating and optimizing. There may be a pivot here or there. But the point is, when you commit 10 years of your life to something, you are setting yourself up for success psychologically because you know how long it's gonna take. And when you set yourself up for that, you have realistic expectations. But also, if you're gonna say, I'm gonna commit to this thing for 10 years. Okay, now what does the rest of my life look like? I only have $50,000 in my bank account right now. So can I really do this thing for 10 years if I quit my job? Well, no, the answer is no, you can't. So maybe you find a way to structure it. So you're still working your nine to five and you're building your thing from five to nine or on the weekends. But the point is you're structuring your life so you can commit to this for the long haul. Which will ultimately lead to you being successful at that thing. So I think that when you have this long term vision and this long term mindset, that's what sets you up for success psychologically and in like the practical day to day of, how do I build this thing? Well, not running out of money to pay rent or pay the bills or it support my family. And when you can set yourself up like that, that's I think, I think that, you know, the old, not the old, but the common trope with entrepreneurship is like you have like a 95% failure rate. Yeah. I think when you think in a 10 year mindset, I think you inverse that. I think you have a 95% success rate because there's not many people who I know who commit to doing something for 10 years and show up every single day for 10 years and aren't some version of successful at that thing. That's very hard to say. I can't think of any. It's very hard to say. It's very hard to say. If you've got to keep the way to architect your environment, your life, your business so that you can commit to that long. All right. And that's great advice because like you said, this instant gratification error is tough. I mean, as someone that's hiring employees, you must be seeing this on a daily basis. I have, so I think that it impacts, it impacts people differently. So a lot of my team right now, and I'm gonna have this problem soon because I'm building out a studio for my show right now in person. And a lot of these interviews are gonna be in person where for a period of my show, a lot of it was virtual. But obviously, the in person is a better conversation, it's a better experience, it's more real. And as we discuss, that's very important for getting good content. But most of my team up to this point has been virtual. So I haven't had a huge issue with it, but I have heard from France who have tried to hire in the US in South Florida in particular, that hiring in person, people in the US right now is a pain in the ass. Everyone seems entitled, I'm not gonna name names, but one of my good friends, he's tried to hire. I'm sure a lot of videographers, he wants to create content. And he's a nice, like I know him. I know him very well, he's a nice guy. He's not like, there's some people, okay, maybe it's like, he's hiring, not like the employee is the issue. This guy is one of the nicest guys, most generous guys I've ever known. And he's probably gone through like 10 videographers, but the that I hear, this is a wild story that never existed. He hired a guy W2. So like, salary, hired a salary guy. So this is like, this is your salary, this is a job. And I mean, I haven't worked at W2 in a while, but like when I took a job and I took the salary, like there was nothing that was unclear to me. I knew what the job was, I knew what the salary was. Guy signs the contract. First week that he shows up to work, he after he signs the contract, he wants to renegotiate for a higher salary. In his first week of work. Wow. This is not like a contractor. This is a guy that's salary that would ever 70K or something like that in South Florida for videography work for full-time contracts. I mean, the issue is not that he wants more money. That's his prerogative. The issue is that if you want more money, first of all, you have to negotiate before you sign a contract. It's like the whole concept of work is skewed. I've never heard of this in my life where somebody would try and negotiate a contract after they sign a contract. It doesn't make sense to me. Again, when I applied for a job, went through the interview process, got my offer, negotiated, agreed, signed, went to work. So I've heard a lot of stories like this about trying to hire, and it seems to be, I don't know. It can't be like all across the US, but I think in some parts of the US, especially lifestyle cities like Miami, I think that it's very hard to find people who want to work. I think it's very difficult. And I don't know how you solve for that. I think that maybe finding ways to create more of a work-life balance or to align that person's, the company's goals with the goals of that person, I think, could be a way to solve for that. But I think we're in this really awkward stage where I think COVID showed people what life could be like if they work from home, which is no problem with that at all. But I think that also, the reality is, is if you're gonna work from home and you want a high salary, I think you have to put the reps in first and maybe do the not so fun work and then not so fun job to get your career started and then you can demand more. And I think what people are doing now is they're demanding more without having the accolades or the background to really warrant that, that type of environment. So I think that you have a lot of entitlement. I think that you have a lot of, again, like I mentioned, people trying to fast forward their career without putting in the reps. And I think that, I don't know where it's gonna go. I just think it makes hiring harder. I think it makes building a business harder. I think it makes everything harder. So I think that this is something that, if you are young in your career and you're willing to go to an office or to do the things that everybody else did, I think that you will have an advantage. I think that this is where you can shine. If you are willing to do tough work for a period of time, everyone else did, I think this is where you're gonna come out on top. Because I think a lot of people are very entitled in their career. A lot of comparison, too, on social media. Well, that's a thing. You look at social and it's also because a lot of people are architecting their lives to portray this certain thing that isn't even true. So why are you comparing yourself to something that isn't even true, right? But that's why for me, even when I'm building my own business, when I'm building my own podcast, I'm not focusing on what anyone else is doing. I'm just focusing on building out the best thing for me. I'm focusing on being the best interviewer. I'm focusing on having the most beautiful studio. I'm focusing on doing the research on the best cameras that will create the best YouTube video. I'm focusing on creating the best product and always upskilling myself and upskilling my company and upskilling my, or developing my podcast. And if I consistently do that, and I'll learn from people that are doing it at a higher level, but I'm not worried about them. I'm worried about me. I'm worried about bettering me. So if I look at anyone else, it's only to learn and to understand and to study. It's never to be sad that I'm not there. I don't give a that I'm not there. I fully believe that if I do all the things that someone else does and I reverse engineer their success, and I understand all the different things that they've incorporated into their show, into their team, into their social media strategy, I will eventually get there. So it's just about learning, understanding, putting in the reps, doing the work, figuring out how to do it better, learning how to interview better, reading books, on asking questions, whatever it is. But I think that that is, I think that's the hard work that people want to skip when they start something new, and they look at somebody else and they play this comparison game, and I think you're setting yourself up for failure. Oh yeah, I used to play that game. We all did. I can't though. It was terrible mindset. You're never gonna get there as fast as you think you will, but you will get there. So that comparison game, it's just toxic. It's super toxic. It's super toxic, so. Big step from me too was realizing no one gives a about you. Like that to me was like a life-changing revelation moment because I used to really care about how people perceive me. Putting yourself out online. Yeah. I used to like not put myself out online because I was so scared of being judged. Yeah. No one really gave a once I started doing it. No, I haven't worried about that too much because I've seen some ridiculous online. So in my mind, I'm like, listen, if you're not a , if you're not like a piece of , if you're not racist, which hopefully, hopefully I'm not, hopefully I'm not, hopefully I'm not with anybody. If I'm just putting out what I believe in online and I'm putting out who I am online, there's gonna be people that don't like that. But I don't care if people don't like me if I'm a good person who's trying to do better in the world or create great content. I mean, I think that if you do get pushed back or if people do talk about the stuff that you're putting out online, I think maybe use it as an opportunity to learn and see if any of you could do better. But ultimately, you can't let it impact you because there's always gonna be people that don't like you. There's people that don't like Mother Teresa. Like, what are you gonna do? It comes with the game, right? Even Mr. Beast, he's getting a ton of heat right now. Well, Mr. Beast is getting a ton of heat for a lot of reasons. But what I'm saying is he's done so much good. He's done so much good. And even before, like, not to take this podcast and not make it evergreen, but even before what's happening literally right now with Mr. Beast, there's still people to hate it up. There's people to hate it in first personality. But even though he's literally like outside of the movie, he's making, he's doing such like philanthropic and charity whining stuff like that. People always, people always talk . So, I mean, this is one of the best ways, I can't remember who told me this, but the quote is more or less, people already have an opinion of you, whether or not you're online or not. People will already form an opinion. By putting yourself out online, you just get a chance to shape that narrative. So people will already have an opinion of you. So know that positive and negative. So if you put yourself out online, the best possible outcome is that you just get a chance to skew that slightly more in your favor. Agreed. People will still hate you, but ultimately it doesn't affect you. Yeah. How's that happening when you interviewed someone and you had an opinion going into the episode on how they would act and stuff? Have I had an opinion going in? I try trying to think. For me, it was Grant Cardone. That was a big one for me. You asked me about Grant Cardone. The first time we did an interview. Oh, did I? Yeah, you did. And I said, I didn't really have a problem with him. I said, I said, I think that, okay, so Grant Cardone, to me, is like an Andrew Tate. Grant Cardone has a persona that he puts out online that accomplishes a business objective. I mean, I'd have a different perspective if he was fraud or if he was scamming people. But so far, the lawsuits against him haven't held up. I've spoken to people that are really into real estate and they're like, listen, if you look at his disclosures in his agreements and his offering memorandums, you read through exactly what he does is pretty black and white. I mean, I think the people that talk a lot of, because they want, I mean, there's a lot of channels that just talk about famous people because they know that it drives views to their channel. But I don't think he's doing anything fraudulent because he has these exceptionally long legal agreements whenever he raises money for a building. Maybe people don't read them, but that doesn't mean he's doing anything fraudulent. So I think that he has a personality online. He's figured out a formula that works. Tate has a personality online. He figured out a formula that works. I mean, you can like him or not like his personality, but from a business lens, what they're doing is very smart. They have a business objective that they're accomplishing. So when somebody like that comes on, again, the difference would be if you're actually fraudulent or if you're actually a piece of , that's when I will not like you. But if you have a personality and ultimately the output of what you're doing is a net positive. I mean, what he's teaching people is to sell. I don't agree with his sales methods, but he is teaching people how to sell. He's returning investors money. And I guess outside of that, he's kind of like just like the like ra ra, you know, grab life by the balls and do more and be more kind of personality. That's not inherently a bad thing. Like I don't mind if somebody's lighting a fire under people's asses. I think that there could be better role models, but I think that it's better to go out and try and make more money and try and improve yourself as an entrepreneur or as a man than not. I mean, that's sort of my net takeaway from either Grant or Andrew, really. But yeah, it's so funny. So you ask me, do I have these preconceived notions or biases when people come into my show? Very, very rarely because again, the people that I like to bring onto my show, I don't mind if they have different opinions. All I care about is if they are who they say they are. If they are who they say they are and they aren't hurting anybody, that's what's important to me. Because I wanna understand how they think. I would have more issue if somebody is claiming to be some whatever Instagram business leader, private jets that are rented, Lambo that's rented for a photo shoot, saying they can open up some sort of Amazon dropshipping store and you go on, you know, you look them up and there's nothing but people saying they have lost like 50, 60,000 of this person they never filled on the deliverables that they promised. That to me is an issue. That to me is not wild personality. That to me is just fraudulent, that's the difference and I don't like to have those people on my show. So no, I don't really hate anybody going in but it's interesting you asked me about Grant because yeah, I remember you asked me about him the first time. I was wondering where that question came from. No, it's just so, I interviewed him after you but it's just so interesting because going up to that one, I was really trying to get it out of my head about the scammer thing because he was getting a lot of heat at the time. Yeah, he was. And the Scientology thing. So I was trying to just be open, but it was tough. I think yeah, I mean, Scientology thing is a little bit wild. Yeah, I didn't ask it on that one. I mean, maybe next time. People can believe whatever the fuck they want to believe doesn't matter to me, just don't force it on me. Right. I know Scientology, like how Grant, I think Grant learned a lot from Scientology in terms of how he structures his business because Scientology is a very, very good sales organization. They're very good at getting their members. They almost got me. Really? Streets of LA, no idea of Scientology. That's so wild. He pulled me inside. I wrote down my email and everything. I had no idea of Scientology. They'll make you spend a lot of money. Like they have sales techniques, right? So when you, I mean, this is anecdotal. I've actually never been involved in Scientology, but this is sort of like secondhand. So it takes with the grain of salt I could be totally speaking out of my ass, I don't know. But from what I have heard, Scientology does a lot of like mastermind style events and they have people running around and upselling you into next programs and courses and shit. And I think that a lot of grants sales architecture for some of his stuff comes from some of the ways that Scientology gets his members to spend more money. So I mean, a strong sales strategy, I guess it's a strong sales strategy. Again, I don't agree with this type of sales strategy because I do come from a sales background. But it works for him. I don't know. It's, yeah, I don't really have a comment on Scientology. That's a controversial one. How's your social club mastermind speaking of events? It's good, it's tough. We were actually just talking about that, not to break the fourth while two months, but I was talking about how to put on live events and it's a pain in the ass of a business. A lot of logistics, right? It's a lot. It's a lot. And I think that just like an entrepreneur perspective going in, I think that when you think about starting a new business, you have to think about how to use leverage. Leverage is the most important thing as an entrepreneur, right? So like there's capital, there's people, there's technology, there's media. And I think that the more types of leverage you can use for your business, the easier it can be. So a lot of people, when they start a business, I mean, you don't have a huge workforce working for you day one. Most people don't have a media presence. And some people are techy, that's why software eats the world, but not everyone's techy, so they just use capital. And I think that for a mastermind or in-person networking business, like the only thing that you really have access to immediately for most people is capital. Because technology doesn't really help you. People, you don't have a team when you first start and media, you don't have a media presence. So for me, it's a very difficult business to start. So from just sort of like what businesses should I spend more time in if I wasn't already doing it? Sort of like the lesson learned is find a business where you can use more points of leverage because it'll help you get it off the ground. A little bit quicker. Now, I fortunately have media leverage and capital leverage, but I didn't have a team when I first started it out. So it was a lot of logistics and work and hiring event planners and all this. But I think that that's actually something you should think about. So how do I add those four types of leverage? And that's a Naval tweet thread on those four types of leverage. Out of those four types of leverage of finance people, technology and media, what can I deploy to get this business off the ground quicker, which will just basically compress the time from getting it going to when it's a financially viable product market fit business? Yeah. And in-person events, masterminds, they're paying in the ass. They are paying in the ass to get going. And I think that that's why you actually see a lot, and I come from a tech background. So I understand, and I can feel the difference. And I can feel the friction in taking a tech product off the ground, which is also not easy. But I feel like there's less risk when you have a tech product and a like a CTO developer co-founder versus when you try and put this in-person physical event business together, because you have tech product, you can get the developer as a co-founder to develop the product. You can, if you're a marketer, you know how to generate organic traffic, you can convert organic traffic, take that money, roll it into ads, sort of scale that way. With an event business, without even making a sale, you have venue, you have insurance, you have speaker costs, you have staff that are going to be working the event, you have food and bev, you have like $50,000, $100,000 startup costs for one event that's no guaranteed sales. So the risk profile in the business is much higher, which I think it makes a lot of sense if you want to put a lot of money into it to start it off, to test it out, or if you already have a business, and you can find a way to add this on when you're already a revenue generating business. So the issue that I had is the podcast, is the podcast, and the mastermind is the mastermind, and they're not technically tied together. There's some pieces that overlap, and even with an audience, I have a little bit less friction than the average person, but I think that that's just like the lesson learned, is find a way to reduce the amount of friction as much as possible, and I think that in person anything is like a high friction, high risk business to start off. Super high, yeah. I had to learn from Flatian, so I have a... She does aspire and all that, that was tough. Yeah, no, it's tough. So I have events, and if I wasn't able to use leverage to get a free venue, use my leverage for my connections to get good speakers, it'd be tough, dude. Super tough. I mean, I've been doing them for five years, I haven't made any money off them directly, but indirectly with the people I meet, has turned into money. Now, that's the thing, if you configure it out, then obviously it can be a great business, and I would group masterminds in the same category, in-person masterminds in the same category, is conferences and stuff like that. I have a friend right now who's trying to put on for the first time ever a larger conference, and I'm sort of just watching him, and he's doing the GaryVee content style, where you document everything you're doing on your journey, and it's a lot, dude. Yeah, but... It's a lot, it's just a lot to get people into a room and find a way to monetize that, to the point where it's a viable business model. So I think just like, for entrepreneurs listening, don't just hop on the mastermind bandwagon because you see like Tony Robbins charging $100,000 per year per person for like, this platinum level membership, right? I think that focus on the business that you have the best chance of succeeding in, and I think there's other businesses that are easier to start. Way easier. Yeah, I see them as mainly just networking. Yeah, I see it as more of a value add. Right. A value add to an existing business, then like a siloed isolated business model on its own. Agreed. Even I think with a spire, I think I can't remember how they got that off the ground. You know the story of a spire. I don't, I know Dan joined pretty late though, like they're already running, but that yeah, I'm so curious if they had a business and they funded it through another business, or if they just they had to of, because the conferences are probably a million to put on, right? Yeah, I mean, like so if you're putting, and you also have cash flow issues, right? So a lot of the people for the conferences, they want payment before the actual conference takes place. Yup, the speakers, yeah. Yeah, they want money up front. I mean, and you're selling tickets right to, right to the actual conference date, and there's sometimes you're selling tickets at the door too. So I mean, unless your tickets are grossly expensive or you have, you know, some, a couple thousand people, you, you're gonna have massive cash flow issues unless you're spending this, this, this, yourself. Yeah, so I, from what I've seen, because I've been to three of them, they do a pitch every show. Yeah, and I'm pretty sure that's where they make a majority of their money. Of course, but imagine the million dollars that you have to spend to get people in the room to be able to make that. You got to float it and you can no longer just put a big name on and it'll sell out. No, you have to market it. No, you have to market it. You have, or you have to get somebody, because all the guys that do like the speaking, speaking for pay, that you see everywhere. Everywhere. Like, their stuff isn't new anymore. So if you want to get somebody, I mean, so I, so I was at inbound, like HubSpot's big conference in Boston last year. And they had like Barack Obama like the first year that I spoke there. And they had, I think Reese Witherspoon like the second year in this year, they have Ryan Reynolds. Like they have like people that aren't accessible. Really not accessible. But I'm sure they're paying. I think Barack is like $500,000 to get them on stage. Yeah. So I mean, it takes a lot of money to get people that aren't just speakers for hire, right? But that will get people to your event. But I mean, most people don't want to put $500,000 into a maybe. Like you're going to get them there for sure, but outside of the security and logistics, are you really going to sell enough your first time selling from stage to make up that $500 grand plus all your event expenses? No, probably not. No, it's tough, dude. It's tough. Very tough. Scott, who's coming on next? And who's your dream guest? Who's my dream guest? Who's coming on next? I have a lot of people coming on next. Can't remember who it is right now. I'm not as far behind as you, but I'm a little bit behind. I'm probably like two months behind. Okay. That's pretty, pretty good at it. Well, I had to get my sh together because guests were getting mad. Oh, that happened to me. I was six months behind, so I had to get my sh* together. And also when we talk about something and it's time-bound and relevant, I also don't want it to be so far in the past. So I'm about two months behind now. Dream guests, the dream guests are like, listen, I'm coming for the Tim Ferrisses of the world. Like, I want to be that level of show, as do you. I mean, you want to get Elon and you want to get Zach and you want to get Bezos. You want to get Bezos. You want to get, I mean, you want to get presidential candidates on and that Trump just didn't know. Like, you want to be at that level. All podcasters do, so we're going there. Oh, yeah. The big four. We'll see who gets there first, mate. We'll have a little friendly competition. Awesome, Scott, thanks for coming on. Where can people find the podcast and everything? Pretty easy. All the socials at Scott DeClaire and podcasts is success story podcast up. Awesome. Thanks for watching, guys. We'll link below. Check them out. Peace.