Scott Miller - Author, Speaker & EVP at Franklin Covey | A Masterclass On Mentorship

Welcome to success story the most useful podcast in the world. I'm your host Scott D. Clary. The success story podcast is part of the blue wire podcast network as well as the HubSpot podcast network. Now the HubSpot podcast network has incredible shows like the hustle daily. It's hosted by Zachary Crockett, Jacob Cohen, Rob Litterst and Juliet Bennett Ryla. Now the hustle daily brings you a healthy dose of a reverent offbeat and informative takes on business tech and news and it happens daily. So if you want to stay up to date on the latest and greatest and some of these topics are interesting to you then you're going to love the hustle daily topics like Amazon's grocery strategy. The rise of the ugly shoe economy is AI the secret to love and America's sleep deficit problem. So if these are topics you want to get into and you love hearing up-to-date content whenever you wake up in the morning go listen to the hustle day daily wherever you listen to your podcast. Today my guest is Scott Miller. He is the executive vice president at Franklin Covey. He is also the author of master mentors 30 transformative insights from our greatest minds. Scots had incredibly impressive career. This is the second time he's on the show. He's a prolific speaker. I absolutely love the way that he teaches and presents. He hosts multiple podcasts himself including the on leadership podcast and great life, great career. Additionally, he is the author of many books outside of the one we're going to talk about. Today, including the multi week Amazon number one best selling book management mess to leadership success. He authors a weekly leadership column for ink.com and he's also a frequent contributor for thrive global. So we spoke about mentorship today. Again, second time on the show, why you wanted to mentorship. Of course, he just released a book on mentorship. The book is actually about some of the lessons that he's learned from some of the people that he's having a show and he's had some of the most incredible individuals on his show. So we spoke about some of those lessons. But also scots an incredible leader himself and he teaches over he speaks as well as in his own organizing teaches over a lot of things that will help you sort of level up in your own career. One of those things being mentorship. We spoke about mentorship because it's such a powerful way to fast track your success if done properly, but it's not properly defined for a lot of people. There's a lot of confusion about how to actually approach it or people may not have success finding the people that they actually need in their life to help them get to where they want to go. So we spoke about mentorship. What is a mentor. What isn't how somebody can build relationships with mentors that can help them. The benefits of having a mentor. The right ways to find a mentor, which is incredibly important. Things people should be aware of when they are searching for mentorship and the difference between a mentoring moment versus a traditional mentor relationship. You should be aware of that when you're starting to seek out help and guidance. And then lastly, outside of some conversation regarding how to basically deploy mentorship in your life to level yourself up. Then we just spoke about some of the great stories that he's that he's been able to unpack and some insights that have been super impactful on him from some of the guests on his podcast. Let's jump right into it. This is Scott Miller, EVP at Franklin Covey as well as podcaster author and speaker. So after four years with the Disney development company, they invited me to leave, which is kind of the way Disney fires you. It's a great culture, but they invite you to pursue your career elsewhere. So, you know, after four years at Disney in Orlando, Florida, where does a single Catholic boy move? Well, of course, to Provo Utah, where all the Catholics are. So here I am 26 years old, moving out from Orlando, Florida, to Provo, Utah to join Stephen Covey's organization. Of course, the author of the seminal book, the seven habits of highly effective people. And here I find myself 25 years later after having lived around the world as an executive officer for the world's most influential leadership development firm was the chief marketing officer for a decade began to start writing a column for ink magazine wrote several best selling books. And now I am privileged to be the host of the world's largest weekly leadership podcast called on leadership with Scott Miller, where I have the honor and the privilege of interviewing some of the world's most influential luminaries best selling authors forced our generals. And some people who may not be a household name, but have a transformational insight to share. And as a result of my first 150 interviews on the podcast, I decided to write a book called master mentors 30 transformative insights from our greatest minds. My name is Scott Miller. I am the dad of three boys and the husband is Stephanie Miller. I live in Salt Lake City, Utah and in what an honor to Scott be on your podcast today. Dude, that was the perfect origin story. That was concise. That was succinct that you've done this once or twice. I know I know you speak a lot. I know you I know you're a great interviewer. I'm excited to have you on. I'm excited to break down some of the things that you've learned that you transpose into this into this book mentors mentors. People always speak about mentors mentorship. Why it's so important. What is a mentor? Well, a mentor is different things with different people. Sometimes it's formal. Like, will you be my mentor? Will you mentor me on this six sigma process? Sometimes it's informal. It's someone that's just, you know, friend it up. They've friend it someone who is more accomplished, wiser, smarter, but I think a mentor is someone who is abundant, who has wisdom to share with someone else. Not not not an ego to try to turn them into a mini version of you, but someone who has an abundance mentality that wants to share not just their successes, but their failures and messes. I don't know about you, but I learned more about having a successful marriage from those who are divorced. I learned more as an entrepreneur growing my business from those who've had bankruptcies than from those who made their first million by age of 30. So I think a mentor is someone who is more concerned with what is right than being right. Meaning what's right for you? What are your strengths? What are your fears? What are your passions? And can any of my journey mistakes and successes be helpful to you? That's what a mentor is. I feel like when people look for a mentor, they don't have that definition in mind. Everything you just highlighted when mentors open up, when they're vulnerable, when they teach over from their past failures, I think that's what will actually help somebody and actually move the needle. But I feel like the average person doesn't even know what to look for when they're looking for a mentor because there's this vision of a guru that can help them in all aspects of their life. And to me, that's not that's not helpful. That's not mentorship. And that's not even what that's not even what your definition is. Like if you're looking for a mentor, you have to find somebody potentially who's done something in one area of your life or one walk of your life. And if you find multiple people who've done different things in different areas of your life and you consume them and you learn from them, that's probably the best way to leverage what a mentor is. It's not a course. It's not a class. It could be, but it doesn't have to be. And I think there's something that I want to pull out because even, you know, when you write a book and the book is basically 30, 30 people that you've connected with through your interview and you take that insight and that knowledge and you summarize it. That's a definition of mentorship. That is mentorship that people can consume through the book. So how does somebody figure out, let me think how to word this, how does somebody figure out how to build a relationship with a mentor. Is it something that you should go out and seek them? Is it something like you should just consume them on YouTube? What does an actual beneficial definition of a mentorship look like? I don't think a mentor is someone you don't know. Like I don't think, you know, Gary V is not my mentor, but I follow him and I learn from him. He's a podcast host that I listen to. I think some people confuse that your mentor is someone who is in relationship with you. It's not your therapist. It's not your coach. It's not necessarily even your cheerleader. It's someone that you've identified that has perhaps pursued a path similar to the one that you want to pursue and that you believe they aren't just smart, but they're wise. I think that's what's different about a mentor. It's someone that is smart and wise that they have wisdom that they have enough confidence to demonstrate humility. To not necessarily say that their past should be your path. A mentor is someone that asks big questions that they're good listeners that they're able to, like I said before, demonstrate humility, which by the way is a leadership competency humility is a mentoring competency. But someone can't mentor you unless they know you want to be mentors. So I'd say formalize it. But make sure you declare your intent. Make sure that you're not artificially trying to be mentored because you eventually want them to seed your first round of funding or you want them to open their role of decks. Don't manipulate someone into thinking they are your mentor and all of a sudden you ambush them for a different reason. That's just called duplicity and disingenuousness. Find someone that you believe you can learn from their successes and their message. Declarate your intent. My intent is try to learn from your experience. Would you spend some time with me over the next six months? One call a month for 30 minutes to talk to me about these particular topics. And then honor that. Don't send them emails throughout the week. Don't suffocate them. Most mentors. If they're valuable, they're probably successful. They're probably in demand. They don't want to be your therapist or best friend. If it turns into that different story, right. But I think people can't help you if they don't know you need help. So reach out. Move outside your comfort zone. Reach out to someone. Perhaps you don't even know and say, Hey, I'm trying to launch a podcast like you. On HubSpot, on SoundCloud, on Stitcher, whatever, you've done what I'm wanting to do. Could you mentor me for three or four 30 minute sessions and the hopes that I could learn from you. Most people, I have found that are successful. Have an abundance mindset. They'll help you out as long as there's not this sort of mission creep, right. You're now their best friend and you're coming by their house and you're inviting yourself to their barbecues. Be respectful of your mentors time and boundaries. But there is one point that is important is there is a feedback loop. There is an active feedback loop. So it's not just consuming a ton of their content. That's an important part of mentorship as well. I want to actually bring it back because this is actually important and I wrote a couple points down here. But I think we're actually jumping the gun because we're assuming that everybody even understands the benefits of having a mentor because we're probably on the same wavelength when it comes to a lot of that stuff as I find our many high performing individuals who have seen success in their life. They have aligned with people that have mentored them to some capacity. Let's talk about the benefits of having a mentor. If somebody has never really sought out that they've done it on their own so to speak and they never really they never really aligned with anyone they felt like they couldn't ever trust anyone to give them that feedback. How do you get somebody to take that first step and why should they if they've already figured out their life to this point without a mentor. Well, I don't know a single person that's successful that's ever figured out their life went out of mentor. They may not realize that they have a mentor in their life. It might be a rabbi. It might be a priest. It might be a father-in-law might have been their headmaster. So I just I reject the premise that people have achieved any level of significant success success without some kind of mentorship. It may be that they don't realize it. But to your point, mentorship is it can take on many forms and fashions. Mentors allow you to kind of look around corners. They allow you to turn a disappointment into an appointment. They give you feedback on your blind spots, which we all have whether it be our our lack of vision or too big bold vision of execution. Mentors are typically like I said before wise people that just ask big open into questions. So if you were to do that, what's the consequence what's the upside what's the downside if you were to say that or launch that. Tell me about your board of directors. Tell me about the people who are mentoring you in life. What are you reading? So I think mentorships mentorship isn't really about teaching lessons from your journey. It's about having your mentee know what questions to ask uncover unfold help them to understand their identity. What is their passion? What is their mission? How can they turn their fears into their strengths? I think a great mentor is someone who listens more than they talk. And so for me mentorship is a requisite for a successful life is surrounding yourself people who by the way, they may not always be older than you might be younger. I have I have several people that are mentoring me on how to get on clubhouse and how to leverage TikTok and how to do, you know, different types of platforms to help launch my my books and products. They're mentoring me and I'm not afraid to say I've got mentors that are half my age. They're helping me become more relevant in a post COVID world, right? And so mentorship I think can be different people in different things. It kind of is what's right for you at the moment in your life. And if somebody wants to go find a mentor, you mentioned a few things like be very specific and intentional. Watch the creep of the relationship. Don't try and get a mentor to have ulterior motives and to help them invest in your in your company. But if you do want to find a mentor, what are the right ways of going about it? Well, I think there's probably many right, right ways. One is you can make a list of your entire network might be eight people might be 800 people. And you might call up some of the most accomplished people when I say accomplished it might mean that they'd had the most bankruptcies because the people that have had the most failures probably have the deepest lessons to teach and say, hey, Scott. I notice that you've launched three businesses. I'm trying to, you know, do some crowd sourcing or crowdfunding over here. Who do you know that could give me some wisdom on this? Anybody know that you'd be willing to build a bridge to your mentor may not be in your network. It might be your attorney's accountant. It might be your ex-girlfriend's brother. It might be someone that you don't even know. So I would say the first step would be to look at your own network and find trustworthy wise people who might be able to build a bridge with someone they know. If that isn't the case, you might just reach out to someone. I mean, I don't care how big of a celebrity you are. You're still checking your Facebook feed at 839 and bed. I don't care how successful you are. You still have an email account. You still have an Instagram and you're still looking at it in the evening time. You need to break from your kids because you're, you've worked 14 hours today. So I'm a big proponent of just putting yourself out there and asking most of my success has come because I was willing to, I was willing to ask. I was willing to pick up the phone and call Matthew McConaughey and say, Matthew, love to interview you. Sometimes they say, no, sometimes they say yes. And Matthew leads you to Will Smith and Will Smith leads you to Mark Manson. Mark Manson leads you to, you get the point, right? And so there's many ways to find a mentor and you'll know pretty quickly, but it's the right fit for you. I think what goes wrong in mentorship is when you start to treat the mentor as your friend or as your bank or as your coach or your therapist mentors are there to help impart any knowledge and you wisdom that they've gleaned from their journey that can be replicated in your life. I think also mentorship goes wrong when the mentor feels like their job is to, like I said before, it's kind of turn you into them. Mentorship is not trying to have someone follow your path. It's about helping them clarify and uncover their path. So when you, when you have someone that is helping you clarify and uncover your path, that's, that's when you know you're in a positive mental relationship when it's not extending beyond that. Now, I would also just ask, how do you know when a mentor, so how would you, I guess you sort of answered how you know when a mentorship isn't working out, but even just jumping into something, what are some red flags right off the bat when you are looking for mentors, because you're right, there's a lot of, there's a lot of opportunity at there, you may somebody a successful is there things that you should stay away from or be wary of when you're trying to find someone to help you. I think it's self awareness, knowing what it's like to coach you, knowing what it's like to be on a zoom call with you. So some of it first is self awareness to know what type of person would be best to match your personality. I think also is scope creep, you know, you don't want to call up Sylvester Salone and ask him if he'll mentor you for a year and a half on how to become, you know, a boxer, I don't watch his movies. I think he was a boxer. Is that what Rocky was? I think it was boxing. Sorry, sorry, not a boxing fan. Forgive me to your millions of boxing listeners. But I mean, that's overwhelming. Right. Slice loans, I can, you know, mentor you for a year and a half, but you might say, hey, could I have a half an hour of your time. And the mentor might fall in love with you and she or he might say, hey, you know, if you have more questions, give me a call. So I think incremental eyes, it's like dating or you're going to know in the first date, whether or not you want to invite, you know, this person back or they want to invite you back. Be transparent, be open. I think be realistic is I'm trying to develop this skill. Right. I'm trying to do this particular thing and I have identified that you may have some expertise in this. Would you be willing to coach me and I would be very specific in a couple of 30 minute sessions. You know, if it goes well and you have high EQ, you can read into the third session, whether or not it's appropriate to ask them to extend it or not. And I also think it's gracious to break it off. If after the second call, you find that that person's expertise isn't what you thought or they're not as invested, you can simply thank them for their time. Hey, can I tell you Scott, I have so appreciate your investment in me. I'm going to actually release you from any further commitments. I'm going to go out and execute on the things that you've taught me already. And would you be willing if I needed some more time to ever give it to me? Sure. And then and then they feel validated and you feel like you're able to break it off. I think many of those techniques could work for different types of people. One thing that you mentioned is is a mentor moment. Walk me through what a mentor moment is versus I guess a traditional mentorship relationship. Well, I mean, you could have a mentor that's a 30 minute cup of coffee at a panera, right? I mean, it's what most of my chapters are about in the master mentor book, right? These are people that I had on a 35 minute podcast where they dropped a truth bomb that I had never heard at the age of 50 and never heard that concept before. Here's a good example. This is a concept from Hiram Smith, who is the co founder of Franklin, he invented the famous Franklin planner, the paper planning tool, right? Of which is not part of the company anymore, but Hiram taught me in a mentor moment this concept of you can see life through three lenses. I have to, I ought to, I get to. I have to take the garbage out on January and a cold Salt Lake freezing 10 p.m. I ought to take the garbage out. Or I get to take the garbage out the first mentor in the book is a man named Nick Vuichich, Nick Vuichich was born with no limbs, no arms and no legs. He's a torso and a head and Nick Vuichich would love to take the garbage out on a five degree January evening and Salt Lake City. Nick Vuichich has never taken the garbage out. And so whenever I'm entering a task, whether it be terminating someone or flying to Miami from Salt Lake, I get to take a seven hour flight today. I get to be on Scott's podcast moving from a mindset of I have to through I ought to to I get to that's a mentor moment is something that you know could happen in a very short conversation where someone's wisdom can be imparted to you and completely change your life by changing your mindset, your behaviors and your results. So go out and find these people because even even something as short as a 30 minute segment and that's what I wanted to draw out because I think people get scared about the concept of mentorship and they get worried that okay, well, I'm not going to have a year with Sylvester Stallone, but still push yourself outside that comfort zone, get that coffee meeting for 30 minutes or somebody who has achieved incredible stuff in their life and you're still going to get something out of that. If your mentor doesn't need to be a famous celebrity, they don't need to be that too. If you're learning attorney in town, it might be just someone that has traveled down a similar path that you have and no doubt if you ask the right questions and you have an open mindset and you're also willing to listen, I mean, there's just no question you're not going to glean some insight out of them. Out of the hundreds of people that you've interviewed, why these 30 what was so what was because you're going to do we were discussing in the in the preamble there, you're going to do what 12 of these books or more at least, but still this is the inaugural book 30 30 insights, basically, so what was the what was the rationale for these 30 individuals? They agreed. No, actually, there's some truth to that, right? So I mentioned I host this podcast called on leadership with Scott Miller and you have to have appeared on the podcast to be included in the book. So I picked people from all walks of life. Honestly, it was it was people that I found that they actually had a transformative insight. Now, that's a pretty high standard, right? Because not everything in this book, you might find transformative. I think this book, Scott is kind of a start anywhere, go everywhere. It's easy, breezy, fast read, three or four page chapters. This is not good to great or built to last. This is sort of chicken soup for the business leadership soul. And so I picked people fairly episodically, Dr. Daniel Aiman, the famed psychiatrist and neuroscientist on brain health, Stephanie McMahon from WWE fame, speaking of boxing wrestling, wrestling, not boxing. I talk about brain with her, Seth Godin, right on reckless versus fearless, Susan Cain, the author of the book, quiet around introverts and extroverts, Dave Hollis on vulnerability, gentleman crystal on being on the right side of history. So I picked people that I thought were different ethnicities, ages, religions, expertise and put together a purposely episodic book that could hit anywhere for anyone at any time. Whether you're just going through a divorce, whether you just became a parent, whether you just launched a business, whether you were just fired from your job, whether you're private equity company, just said no and you're on the hunt for another round of funding. I wrote it episodically on purpose and tried to bring in broad people from different walks of life. I just want to take a second and thank the sponsor of today's episode HubSpot. Now the new year might have you thinking ahead to what you want out of your career. So when you think about your success story, what do you actually picture? Is it retiring early with a beautiful view of the skyline? Is it leaving a legacy with your name on it? Or maybe it's helping influence and change some of the world's most pressing issues, whatever it is, writing your success story starts by working smart because when you work smart, your success story rights itself. A HubSpot CRM platform helps your marketing campaigns work harder and smarter with intuitive visual workflows and bot builders you can create scalable automated campaigns across email, social media, web and chat. So your customers hear your messages loud and clear. Are you tired of your content not adapting to mobile, making it difficult for your customers to absorb your message. A HubSpot CRM platform optimizes your content for multiple devices so that you can reach your customers wherever they are, which is just smart. Learn more about how you can transform your customer experience with a HubSpot CRM at HubSpot.com. And also I want to understand why you went through the trouble of highlighting four people in the introduction because I think that there's obviously something that stood out in these four people and I'm not saying that the other because the other people are absolutely incredible. I've looked through the roster of people you brought onto your show and also into the book. But let's break down some of the lessons that because I think that's also wildly wildly useful. We were listening. So let's start with Stephen Covey. That was one of the four people obviously. He was just an incredible individual. Seven Habits is a book that is probably one of the best selling books of all time. So what did you learn from him? And why was he included in this book? The point of clarification, this is actually Dr. Covey's oldest son by the same name, although I worked with Dr. Stephen R. Covey for, you know, 15 of my 25 years, he passed about a decade ago, and his oldest son, Stephen M. R. Covey wrote a very famous book called The Speed of Trust. The biggest best selling book in the world around building a high-trust culture and how to become a high trust leader. So the Stephen Covey that I interview is Stephen M. R. Covey, the oldest son of Dr. Covey, our founder. And I highlighted him because I think he is a very practical practitioner of trustworthiness. Now, the insight that I share on him is not about his book or about anything we discussed on our podcast. In fact, many of these insights were not shared in the podcast. Some of them were in the metaphorical green room or in a car at a restaurant somewhere. Some cases they were from the podcast itself. Some cases from their books. Some cases they were from an experience I had with Stephen M. R. Covey. The insight that I share is actually called pulling the plug is knowing when literally as a leader you need to pull the plug on a product launch on your marriage on a business on a toxic relationship on some kind of venture or innovation. So Stephen M. R. Covey's fame and influence is actually on how to become a trusted person. But the chapter that I write about to some people surprised maybe even frustration or delight is when I saw him as the CEO and president of our company pull the plug on a product launch. Our before was going to launch because it wasn't at the standard that our brand would require and our clients would respect and there were some pretty serious reverberations and the firm because of it. As I think it's a good lesson on when is it time to pull the plug in your own life not on your life, but in your life. Take first of all thank you for the clarification. I actually I wasn't sure if it was the sun or the father because I just realized that you've you've worked with the father before he passed and I thought there was probably some I'm sure there's some threads of influence in the sun as well many. Another person that you mentioned and you mentioned him just when we were just riffing a couple of seconds ago is Nick. Yeah, so he's an incredible person he's spoken to like millions millions and I'm sure that if you have gone down a YouTube rabbit hole of any sort of inspiration you've seen him somewhere you've seen him on goal cast. So he actually was on your podcast but then he went to your home for dinner as well. What did what did he teach over that was so impactful that you put in this book. So every month my wife and I host a dinner party in our house in Salt Lake City where we invite some kind of luminary it might be a governor an ambassador an actor a musician post Malone is coming over Ty Burrell is coming over we pick we pick some kind of luminary we fly them in. And we invite about 15 people from around Salt Lake to come some our friends some business leaders some educators and we just have a dinner with this luminary Nick was one of them Nick flew to my house before the 15 guests arrived. I think we had barbecue in the backyard right is not a formal dinner party but before he arrived he was sitting on my sofa and my living room we were just talking with each other. Now again Nick is Australian by birth he is Texan by choice lives here in the US a transplant from LA and Nick is a very powerful person because he always looks forward doesn't look back again born with no arms and no legs try to take his life as an early child literally tried to throw himself off a kitchen counter to end his life. And it didn't happen like he planned he's a very religious person very evangelical speaker but regardless of his political and maybe religious views of which some I agree with and some I disagree with we've built a very strong love and friendship for each other because I have learned an immense amount from Nick and that is. Being grateful for all you had and the story that I share in the book is I 50 years old I met Nick and I had I have and continued to have a fairly privileged life some offered to me and some earned by me. But I was sitting on my sofa watching Nick scratch his forehead on my sofa like a cat because Nick can't scratch himself he has no limbs Giovanni is his full time caretaker now Nick is married has four kids but Nick can't scratch his head. He can't brush his teeth by himself he can't use the restroom dress himself Nick can do very little physically on his own and here I am across from him on a sofa reflexively looking down I have a cup of water in my hand I'm drinking a cup of water because I was thirsty Nick can't drink a cup of water he has to ask for one and someone has to hold it up to his mouth he has to drink it and it was right then in their Scott that I realized I'd never shown any appreciation for my arms or my legs or my hands or my toes or my anything when I type when I adjust my phone when I do anything. And so it was just that moment that I just had this overwhelming sense of gratitude for my fingers an hour later out in the back dinner party and Nick is talking he sits in a chair with his torso so just imagine that you have nothing beneath basically you're growing and you have no arms. No shoulder no arms I'm eating a piece of key lime pie standing behind the dinner table and Nick is talking and I look down I don't remember picking up the key lime pie I don't remember finding the fork and here I am just like gorging on my key lime pie well Nick is kind of just like you know keeping his torso is in the fall out of his chair. And so for me maybe you had to be there but in the story in the book I just talk about how all of us can benefit from having a deeper sense of gratitude for the small things maybe you can't pay your entire visa bill this month be grateful you paid 30 bucks for it maybe your conditioners are working with your lights are be grateful for that maybe you can only put four yards of gas in your car. Been there be grateful for that kind of ties into the whole concept that I shared earlier around I have to I ought to I get to. So at midnight or 10 o'clock on Sunday night when the wind is blowing in the driveway is iced over and I've got to take the garbage out to the garbage cans and wheel the garbage cans out to the road and I go to the trash can and I open it up and I get a whiff of my dog feces was my boy took him for a walk but didn't tie the bag I used to think now I think I get to take the garbage out. Because Nick vooditch cannot take the garbage out. That that is one of those that is one of those moments in all seriousness where you listen to somebody you you just you're with somebody for a period of time and in that short period of time that is when they truly change your life. Yeah change my life change my life yeah it's a difference today I'm in Miami today giving a speech I live in Salt Lake and so be a full day of travel I'll get home at 10 o'clock tonight I get to take a six hour flight back to Salt Lake tonight probably eight hours when you factor in my my you know layover I get to do that and before I would have thought now I'm like I get to I get to walk on the plane with my own two legs. Yeah that's that's raw that's tough man that's tough that is sorry the story gave me every time I hear a story gives me shivers you know seriously this is not just we're not just you know just not just riffing on this for fun like that's it that's an incredible human being if you don't know who he is you should go check in. The shower today and you put the shampoo in your hair be grateful you have hands to put the shampoo in right when you text your friends be grateful that you have a phone that works that can text it doesn't mean lower your standard it means be grateful for what you have stop focusing what you don't. Let's tell me one more story because actually I was actually incorrect is actually five I just so there was actually five people that you had put in the preamble about Kim Scott Nick. Yeah I was going to say Kim Scott Steven Stephanie McMahon and then Trent Sheldon but yeah yeah. Yeah but Kim Scott for a minute. Yeah I was going to say but I want to just just highlight you actually took a word for word transcript from your show and put into the book and you didn't do that with everybody and I'm also curious why so talk about talk about Kim and radical candor because I know that's the book she wrote. So Kim and Trent have nothing in common right Kim is a Silicon Valley white female executive Trent Shelton is a former NFL player a black American male they have very similar they have no similarities actually but what they have in common the similarities they do have. What they have was their interview was so powerful a podcast that I chose not to just write about it I chose to take their exact verbatim transcript and put it in the book because they could tell their story better than I could only only the two of them. Kim Scott is a former executive at Google she was one day sharing a story that at Google she was meeting with Eric Schmidt then the CEO and one of the two founders whose names I can't properly pronounce by one attempt and she's in the room with her then boss Cheryl Sandberg that then left Google now I think is the CEO of Facebook that's an all start team by the way. I mean this is yeah yeah this is my world right is hanging out with the founder so Google hardly so Kim Scott shares this story but after this meeting that she's giving a presentation to Eric Schmidt and I think it was surgey Cheryl Sandberg says hey come back to my office a moment and Kim's like uh oh. She comes back to Cheryl Sandberg's office and Cheryl says hey how do you think that went and Kim said when fabulous they seem like they were really invested and Cheryl said do you realize that every third or fourth word you said was like or um I was like and she was like and he was like and I was like and um and uh and um and uh. He Kim said yeah it's like a verbal tech it's no big deal and then Cheryl said yeah that thing you do with your hand this thing you do with your hand well you just like to smith things it's insulting and Kim said for the first time in her life she felt like someone was telling her that she had a spinach in her teeth metaphorically. And Cheryl Sandberg said Kim you sound stupid when you talk that way I'm willing to get you a speech coach if you like here's the point Kim went on right this book called radical candor about how one of the greatest gifts we can give people who work for us is feedback on their blind spots. Done so with a level of courage and diplomacy that keeps their self esteem their self worth their self confidence intact and it was Cheryl Sandberg that demonstrated radical candor with Kim Scott which is the opposite of ruinous empathy as a leader. Kim and I are on the same page when it comes to a leader's first job most important job the biggest gift they can give those who work and with them is feedback on their blind spot it might be their personal hygiene it might be their punctuality it might be their self awareness of how much they speak versus listen it might be their inability to take responsibility for their actions and blame others are on and on and on and this is the main role of a leader is to transition people out of self defeating behavior system. And habits that no other leader had the courage to do before them this book radical candor is amazing and Kim Scott is enormously self aware and vulnerable to share what she learned from Cheryl Sandberg and others. So I held Kim Scott up as a great leadership example that anybody reading this book whether you are formal or informal leader whether you're a mentor formally or informally your job is to appropriately build trust with others so that you can get them in a position in the conditions where you can be radically candored with them. When people read this book what do you want them to take from it you want them to take action you want them to just feel enlightened like they've learned from 30 incredible people what's the what's the what's the end result yes and yes I think I said this book is going to hit everybody differently you know one thing I learned from Seth Godin and from Clayton Christian sin is as a marketer not everybody is your client right you need to understand the exact circumstance your client is in not everybody needs to come to your restaurant not everybody needs to come to your spa you can everybody is not your customer it's not true. On this book however I'll tell you it's got a broad audience it's going to hit people differently and I hope people take away from it a piercingly transformative insight that hits them right when and where they are as I mentioned earlier not every insight will hit you as transformative. In many cases it will remind you of something you already know there'll be a lot of dumb moments but at the end of each chapter I offer kind of a big recap here is the big idea and then I pose a question to the reader. Different question for each chapter how are you going to implement this by asking them a provocative question so I think in many ways every reader will have a different experience with the book. And it's the kind of book where you can read chapter 14 before chapter 6 you can scan the table of contents go to someone you love and know go to someone you don't know or love and maybe become a follower of theirs we mentioned off air you know I'm not sure I've ever had an original thought of my entire life I was a chief marketing officer I had some success in life but at the heart of it I'm just an aggregator and a pollinator I think my calling now is to is to. Gather at the feet of wise people and then pollinate their wisdom to as many people as possible and in some ways I hope that this book becomes a platform in a spotlight for those 30 people and allows others to say I've heard a Brendan Bouchard who is that or I've heard of Stem and Graham is that Oprah's boyfriend why is he in here world Stem and Graham is a remarkable entrepreneur on his own right and the insight that I share from him for me was literally life changing. I hope the book. Becoming the chemical engineer that your father wanted you to become. Go choose your own identity and spend your life fulfilling the identity you want for yourself that sounds like therapy 101 but Stem and Graham taught it to me in my late 40s and it's exactly what I'm doing thank you Stem and Graham. Awesome. But I'm not going to be what you want me to be I want to be good as you should be as everyone as everyone should be if you want to connect with you where do they go social website where do they get the book. Sure the books on a right can be found on every retail or Amazon books a million you name it my books are out there you can Google Scott Jeffrey Miller my website is in fact Scott Jeffrey Miller dot com I'm on every social platform LinkedIn Twitter Instagram YouTube Facebook soon to be tick tock up on clubhouse. If you Google me I'm bound to come up Scott Jeffrey Miller. Okay amazing all right biggest challenge you've overcome in your personal or professional life. Yeah I'm a stutterer I have a lifelong stutter I spent 20 years in speech therapy and speech pathology I've had braces three times I'm going into a vis line next week for my fourth time to help control my stutter. There are about 35 words I cannot say in public and I've worked very hard to build off ramps and alternative words so when a word comes up that that that that I've got 17 words that may or may not make exact sense but I have a lot of a lot of file drawers that I can pull from but I have a strong speech impediment and I've worked hard to try to work through it and in some cases even conquer it. You know what I was I didn't know that but I think that you're probably one of the strongest speakers probably one of the one of the strongest speakers I've ever had on this show and I've listened to your podcasts and whatnot that's incredible I think you've actually leveled up beyond the skill set of many other people just because you had to conquer that probably that's gracious of you and thank you. If you had to choose one person there's probably been many that had an incredible impact on your life who was it and what did they teach you Seth Godin has become a very dear friend of mine of course you know who Seth Godin is the famous blogger author Seth taught me the difference between being reckless and being fearless. And it's one of the 30 mentors that I highlight in the book I spent most of my life thinking I was being fearless when in fact I was being reckless reckless with my brand reckless with your feelings I was the kind of guy that kind of you know said what was on my mind and you know kind of just let the chips fall where they lie and I realize that no that wasn't fearless that was reckless and not every thought I have these to be expressed so I don't need to tell you anything on my mind I should be more fearless. And less reckless. What would be one resource could be a podcast audible book obviously not yours but something else that you consume that you recommend people go check out. You know I'm a big fan of Donald Miller he's one of the most famous marketing minds in the nation and Donald Miller wrote the book of course you know building a story brand he wrote business paid simple marketing made simple he's in the book as well just conveniently Donald Miller is a very wise marketer entrepreneur based out of Nashville his podcast I think it may be even called now a business made simple but he's a very abundant gentleman that likes to shine like others and if you're an entrepreneur a solar entrepreneur an entrepreneur if you're looking for a side hustle if you follow you'll learn a ton from Donald Miller. What would be one unpopular opinion you hold about business life mentorship leadership. I do not believe in the cancel culture I'm radically opposed to opportunistically taking people down I have some friends that are big celebrities that said the wrong thing or did the wrong thing and they they kind of you know saw the light and and and it's hard for them to recover I believe in second third chances I think if you're a sociopath if you're like a morally corrupt person different story. Generally I am the king of second chances I think people should be not just forgiven they should be in most cases pre forgiven because people are going to say the wrong thing when you are a celebrity when you are a leader when you are a owner just by sheer volume you're going to say stuff that's done. It's very safe to be Switzerland it's very safe not to ever express an opinion but just by the sheer odds of talking of announcing a declaring you're going to say things that you need to unwind and so I generally am moving into my last clearly half of my life being much more forgiving of people and not taking things so personally. Good very good and then if you could tell your 20 year old self one thing what would it be. Oh guard your FICO score with your life guard your credit score with your life right I mean my score is sometimes in the 800 sometimes it's in the 600s you know the amount of money that I have spent on you know extra interest because my FICO score was below 700 I mean it's just insane so guard your credit score with your life next to your reputation and your soul it probably is your most valuable. You know you can expect that one did you I did not I did not expect that at all that's the listen man good advice good advice doesn't matter it doesn't matter what it's about I think that's damn good advice so I appreciate it what is success mean to you. Oh raising my three sons to be gentlemen raising my three sons to not be bullies not be mean to be kind to be generous to be helpful to help people out to protect people who need to be protected my I wasn't married I was 42 I was married late in life my wife and I had three boys technically she had three boys in five years is not been easy I never wanted to be a parent. Truth is I still don't want to be a parent I don't enjoy it but it is now my calling in my mission so success to me is having these three boys feel loved and stay connected with me the other whole life successful be my children come home because they want to not because they have to. you